Recorded on 6 June 2026 with worldwide participants

0:00 Intro
0:08 The Ultimate Truth, beyond the appearance of the universe
7:19 The imagination must be within the Truth of Existence, but it is also away from the Truth; is that not a contradiction?
14:46 Is imagination itself the problem, or is it because we get involved with it, that it becomes a problem?
19:45 Should we avoid thinking that we are the creator of our thoughts?
22:06 We can call the Truth neither ‘something’ nor ‘nothing’ but Babaji has said, ‘It is there’?
30:03 Babaji has said that a separate world exists within our mind. What is the universe that is there outside our mind?
34:14 Babaji has said that science is not wrong, but scientists can be wrong. Is there a science underlying all of creation and the Truth itself?
37:23 How did the ancient sages know how to realise the Ultimate Truth?
40:30 At the level of Parabrahman, are the supreme consciousness and supreme energy are also imaginations?
41:52 What is the relationship between attention and imagination?
42:31 How is it that we can concentrate in between the eyebrows in meditation?
43:48 Where does the idea that we are all made of the same material come from?
45:30 When we are completely quiet, how does the Supreme Consciousness communicate with the individual imagination?
48:22 If everybody has come to play a role in this world, is it the soul’s plan or the Divinity’s plan?
50:11 When people make wrong choices in their life, is that their pre-birth soul’s plan?
50:48 After this lifetime, does the soul think that I have accomplished what I wanted to do, even though it was wrong?
51:32 When I am sitting for long in meditation, my head drops and interrupts my meditation.
52:15 If consistent meditation can lead us to samadhi, then what is the purpose of Tapas?
53:19 If the Self is non-dual and non-duality is the reality, then what is the point of anything anyway?
54:27 When something arises in the mind, how to not get involved in it again?
55:26 It seems challenging to quieten the mind.
56:12 Innumerable thoughts and concerns are in the mind – would it be necessary to come out of the complexity of the external world to achieve samadhi?
58:50 Difficult to stay in a community when practicing disciplined sadhana.

Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.280
The Ultimate Truth
YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMJLDx8KmAg&t=3s  
Recorded: 11 August 2026

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Babaji, to start with, in science they’re looking for a theory of everything, an equation that explains the nature of the universe.  But the truth, as Babaji explains it, is actually beyond the appearance of the universe.  The universe came from that truth of existence, but it cannot give the truth itself.  Could Babaji talk about this?

Babaji Maharaj:   First thing we need to understand, any theory, definition, explanation is born out of pure imagination.  That’s what happens.  So, when you come across a truth, say, of an existence, initially you really don’t know what it is.  And you observe.  Then you imagine its performance is like this, you conclude, then you try to give a name.  Either often it is named after any person in that field, a famous or a genius person in that field, or based on some definition, something like that.  So, that is finally to be considered born out of an imagination, and nobody knows what the truth is.  This is accepted in spirituality, that which is beyond appearance; why I teach is that truth is infinite.  The first clue for that is your own mind.  All of you know – a hundred times I keep repeating – all of you know that you have a mind, but you know your mind only based on thoughts and visions.  More than that you do not know.  You wouldn’t have seen it in naked eyes what the mind is itself. 

The nearest clue I try to give is that mind is an infinite combination of consciousness and energy.  Consciousness is wherever you apply your mind you can become aware of that truth.  Now when I am talking if you can apply your mind totally towards me, then you will understand what I am trying to convey.  And this mind has the creative power.  Imagination is not an ordinary thing, I have told.  This creative power, this imagination is possible only because of the presence of energy in it.  Thus, both consciousness and energy combination is what is the actual mind.  We call it ‘mind’ when thoughts are there.  That is how Swami Ramana Maharishi called “mind is a bundle of thoughts.”  One side that is not wrong, it is fine;  it is a bundle of thoughts.  When there are thoughts, we call it as ‘mind’. 

So, one day when you are able to clear all these thoughts and achieve total silence, then it will not be a mind anymore.  The same substance which we called ‘mind’ earlier is that it regains the purest form of consciousness.  To my idea I call it ‘consciousness’ when it is in its purest form.  There is not an iota of imagination, no thought, no vikalpa, nothing is there.  That is the thing.  Now, I have told, the Ultimate Truth of this mind. If, say, for example we consider this mind as a small potency and because of that it is compared to a droplet of the ocean, its ocean is the Ultimate Truth.  In the same way, if the mind is infinite in form, which is beyond all form and formlessness or definitions; it is infinite, just to understand a little bit, the Ultimate Truth is the final source of this mind’s existence – it is the Ultimate Truth.  Generally, in spirituality we recognize it with the terminology of ‘Divinity’. 

   Divine in nature because its existence is in such a way that it is always contented, doesn’t need anything for its existence, and in Supreme Peace.  If we adopt the meditation, means if we pay attention to that through our mind, then our mind also achieves the same Supreme Peace and contentment.  These two are the most elusive.  Anybody will accept this in this world.  One time it appears there is excitement, there is happiness, and soon it turns out to be craving, tension, fear, stress, all these things.  Even a small child, young boy also understands this.  When he asked me the question about God or about Divinity, then I answered by taking up the clue of the mind.  So, that is what we try to teach. 

   And finally, we accept the final terminology that we use for Ultimate Truth or Divinity is the nearest imagination possible that a Guru can use to give a clue to the student to achieve, what you have to achieve.  See, to achieve that Truth, first you have to achieve the silence of your mind.  Till then your mind is preoccupied with its own imaginations.  When all imaginations are gone, you achieve the silence, then automatically its awareness turns to itself.  That’s what I have called as ‘consciousness of existence.’  That is what is called ‘I,’ ‘Who am I?’ Other sages taught, ‘Who am I?’ Then your attention can go to that.  Then you pay attention, then your mind gets absorbed into that, means merges.  That is what is known as Self-realization.  These are some of the things I teach about the Ultimate Truth to begin with, some basic points.

Question:   So, Baba, I wanted to ask about the imagination for a moment.  As Babaji explained, it’s arisen from consciousness and energy, so this imagination must be within this truth of existence, this truth of existence which is all pervaded, so the imagination must be within, but somehow it’s also separate from the Truth.  So, when we imagine we are away from that truth – it seems to be a contradiction there, Babaji?

Babaji Maharaj:   What happens, there is creativity in this consciousness and that’s an amazing quality.  Imagination means we should not think it is simply just nothing.  It is amazing.  This quality is there to be able to create, to be able to be creative, imagination technology.  That’s a technology that one is able to imagine.  So now, this is within the consciousness, but when the consciousness simply imagines on its own, nothing will be visible, no thought or vision will come.  It has to get applied on the brain here.  That is the combination of consciousness, mind and the brain.  When it’s applied on the brain, then the brain decodifies that imagined substance, shows it as a visual effect or a thought process.  That is how thoughts and visions appear to be.  So thus, an illusion is created.  Watching that, this mind which was pure consciousness registers that thought in itself and considers that to be a fundamental reality; forgets that “this has come into existence only because of my imagining, imaginations”.  And then the brain has given this a picture, a thought. 

Thus, we get involved, the mind gets involved and forgets itself, what it is.  In this process a small portion of the consciousness has come out since time immemorial; nobody knows exactly, from the Ultimate Truth which we call as the Divinity, Parabrahman in our terminology, or just want to call it Ultimate Truth.  That is the final, there is nothing beyond.  So, this has come out.  So that is why it is away in illusion.  Because now it is getting involved into this illusion, it has lost awareness of itself.  Just like all of you as human beings have lost awareness of what you are, who you are, how you exist.  Instead, now you identify yourself with the physical body, with a name and then with certain reasons.  “Because of parents we have come, we have siblings and we have relatives, we have friends, we have a status, we have a country, we have a religion,” or whatever it is, everything. 

So thus, imagine, with all the preoccupation, with all these imaginations, one would have forgotten its real Self, what it is.  Just like you started measuring the space with a measuring tape.  You go on counting one foot, two feet, three feet, and then you forget that the space is simply all pervaded.  Any amount of measurement that you do, you will always limit the space.  Thus, any amount of imagination when it happens, it limits this consciousness of existence from the Ultimate Truth and a separation appears, whereas actually there is no separation.  But because of this imagination, a separation also appears.  Because we experience in the imagination, everybody experiences cravings, happiness, unhappiness, fear, stress.  When this happens, one gets confused and bewildered, “Why this is happening?”  Then you don’t know why it is happening, what you are.  So, if you had remained in that Ultimate Truth which is in total silence known as mahasamadhi, in absolute silence and in Supreme Peace, it doesn’t imagine as a whole, the Ultimate Truth doesn’t.  This consciousness could be of enormous potency, smaller potency, whatever it imagines, but when it gets involved, it loses its link to its mothership type, for example, I am trying to tell.  So, that is how this thing has happened. 

   Now when we try to teach meditation, we try to teach so that first you overcome this imagination effect, then you become aware how you exist as the infinite form.  That is what I talk of consciousness of existence.  And some saints have called it as ‘who am I?’, ‘I.’  You become aware of that one from where it is coming.  Then if you go on observing that silently, then this small potency thing called mind gets absorbed into that, means absorbed into the Ultimate Truth.  That is what in our spiritual language we call it as Self-realization and eventual nirvana, moksha; means total liberation from all imagination because those imaginations give you dualities of good and bad, right and wrong, happiness and unhappiness.  That is why liberation is recommended from that one.  Once for all you want to have. 

Like as a child I used to think, if the happiness is there, it must be there twenty-four hours, twelve months, no fluctuation must happen.  But it is not possible because when the mind itself is wavering, it gets involved into dualities always.  That is an amazing, inexplicable thing how this happens.  It gives stress, unhappiness gives stress.  Nobody wants unhappiness.  Everybody is looking for happiness and peace, but how it can come back, people have forgotten.  So, they are wandering like a monkey in this world, wandering and wandering, want peace, want peace.  But where is the peace?  The world has lost it long ago and everybody is searching peace, but the peace won’t come with rifles and missiles and nuclear bombs, peace will not come.  This humanity has to realize and look into spiritual practices to silence their mind and then they can live happily as long as the body is available.

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  Babaji, is imagination itself the problem?  Creativity, as Babaji has said, is a wonderful, amazing capability.  Imagination can be used in wonderful ways.  And Babaji talked also about Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva creating this universe but not getting involved in the Creation.  So, is the problem that we think the imagination is real and get involved?  Is that the problem and is imagination itself not actually a problem?

Babaji Maharaj:   Here I would say losing control over imagination and forgetting that we are imagining is the problem actually.  Say you are sitting quietly on a chair in the morning or anywhere; you are fresh.  Suddenly your mind starts imagining.  In the beginning it imagines pleasant things; nobody wants unpleasant.  But as the time passes by it loses control over itself and jumps into unhappiness also, past, it is brooding about the past, it becomes anxious about the future.  Thus, it creates both happiness and unhappiness.  Then you lose control over yourself and then you become bewildered, “Why is this happening?  How to get rid of this?  How to have happiness?”  Because the path is not known, people of this world are struggling, going after the world, going after the materialistic thing – “We want happiness, we need to have more money.  We want happiness, we need to have more money.  I have ten bungalows, I’m not happy, I need to have more bungalows so that if anything happens to one, I can have the other.”  Like this, we keep chasing in the world, chasing and chasing, and happiness doesn’t come permanently ever.  Everything is temporary.  So thus, losing control over imagination and forgetting that this is only an imagined substance, or what we are in the mind is only what we have imagined, need not be the truth – that is the problem when we forget about it. 

   To regain that we teach like meditation.  Meditation is when you keep the eyes closed and concentrate your mind and sight in between eyebrows.  That is, these measures are so that first you stop the imagining effects.  When you are just asked to watch, no target is given, means no further imagination is not given; “You have to watch this, you have to watch that, you have to watch this personality, this figure,” nothing.  Just watch.  And as you go on watching, one day you will realize that amazing effect of this watching when you are not imagining anything, you are not watching any other dual relative substance, but you will realize you are trying to watch yourself, the mind is trying to watch itself.  So thus, if you don’t get involved, it’s all right, then you will go back to the Self and you will not be troubled by the imagination too much.  It will be there, but it would not trouble you; you will be contented.  You know the truth, you are aware of the truth. 

That’s what is the concept of Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva I have explained.  They are considered as divine concepts or personalities, not exactly personality, divine concepts because after creating or protecting or withdrawing in this process, they never forgot their true Self, they remained in the Parabrahman.  Thus, they are known as the divine concepts, Trinities.  Afterwards, the next generations of angels, gods and goddesses, what we call devils and demons, they start forgetting who they are, how they are connected to the Ultimate Truth.  Instead, they got involved into the power, insecurity, struggle in this world.  That’s when Sri Krishna said, “Balarama, it’s time that we go to remain in samadhi before our own bodies are claimed by death.  This is the prarabdha of the people of this world if they don’t listen to me.  I told them also, but Yadavas did not listen to me.  Now the result, consequence, they are fighting for wealth, they are fighting for women, they are fighting for alcohol, they have taken a wrong path.  They don’t know that they will never get happiness in that path.”  Like that Sri Krishna tells.  That’s what we try to teach through these things.

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  Babaji, You’ve said before that “You want to become a creator and get involved into that imagination that you are a creator.”  So, as a human being, we should try not to get involved in thinking that we are the creator of our thoughts?  We shouldn’t think, “I am thinking”?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, that thinking also is not good.  Then again, you are getting involved, “O, I have done that” – ego crops up there.  And that ego gives an imagined self which does not exist at all.  Then that imagined self gets involved into the created things and then gets involved into happiness and unhappiness dualities.  That’s what happens, that is the problem.  When you imagine, in the beginning you are aware a little bit, so you want to imagine, still you want to imagine the good thing, so then the Master gives a little bit warning, alertness, “Careful, you have started imagining.  Stop the imagination, otherwise you are likely to get involved into your own imagination because the potency of your concentration has become distracted.”  You have started thinking that you are creating.  That is the first blunder we do, “I am creating, I am the creator.”  Then that ‘I’ also comes into existence which is not there actually.  Then you start experiencing bad, good, stress, unhappiness, everything; cravings come.  So, it is advised not to get involved into creation, means into imaginations of your mind, if Supreme Peace is what you are looking for.  If you are happy to be stressed out in this world, it is your choice.  Nobody can force you to become liberated or go into the Ultimate.  What I am telling is my opinion, my experience, recommendation.  The rest is an individual’s choice, everybody’s choice, what you want to do.

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  So, looking into the nature of the truth as Babaji explains it and uses the closest imagination, we can call it something or nothing, it exists or it doesn’t exist.  But Babaji, You’ve said it is there.  Can we say something is there, or that thing which neither exists nor does not exist, it’s still there?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, for sake of understanding we try to use this language because some people keep arguing about aatman and anaatman and this and that.  Many times, Masters like Buddha, whoever has spoken a little bit, they have not spoken wrongly anything, but people who have misunderstood; they start building up their own theories and definitions, unnecessarily they keep arguing.  There is no such thing.  Simple example I have always told – you are in a room, in the room the space is there.  You can call this room is ‘void’ with space, and you can call this room is ‘filled’ with space.  It is filled up.  It is not simply… ‘void’ means an empty space, there is nothing – that is also imagination.  When there is this space there, how can you say it is nothing?  But the space doesn’t appear to be something.  In this worldly language, when we compare to this world’s language or ideas, the dimension that is prevailing upon, if we try to explain in that language, that could be confusing.  That’s what it is. 

Probably our ancient teachers in Indian philosophy, they tried to give it like ‘aatman’, a substance which has substantial existence value.  Something like this that is what roughly aatman means.  And also, they said, “It is eternal existence.”  Because in the beginning when the Master tries to teach for students or for people of this world, secure existence is important.  Otherwise, they will be bewildered, they will be threatened and they become insecure and they get panicked.  “How can it be that we will not be there?”  That’s why that teaching is given.  So, “This is eternal, you are eternal, immortal soul.  Nothing will happen to you with the birth and death of the body.  You are much beyond.”  As the student progresses, comes closer to the truth, then if the Master explains what it is, then the student will be able to absorb what the truth is. 

Certain things are there.  Like I have always thought, “If I am there, the problem is there for me.  Even if I am not there, no problem, so then there is no problem.  When I am not there at all, who can give me any problem?”  So, that type of thinking used to give me a lot of peace, “It’s okay.  Even if I am not there, it’s no problem.”  If it is infinite, thinking of the mind as infinite, but infinite also is there.  They have given, ancient teachers, their own positive examples like this space is holding the universe and the universe has appeared from the space only, from the consciousness only.  Some Upanishads which have this highest truth, it talks; it is very scientific.  When the Divine – though the words appear to be as a personality, when I call Divine it’s not a personality, it is a Supreme Consciousness of existence – wanted to create, there was nothing else other than the Divinity.  So, there was no raw material available to produce anything.  So, the Divine created the universe from itself, from its womb some languages talk, and then that Divinity is holding the creation in its womb. 

These languages have been used only for sake of teaching.  One need not get confused with all these terminologies.  One will understand when your mind becomes silent, then you will understand you are there, the consciousness of existence.  Probably to experience this, which is possible in a duality, dual existence; in a relative existence only, you are able to experience that you are eternal.  This small potency, individual imagined self has come, then it understands the eternity.  Like, eternity’s clue is, you go on watching in meditation, all thoughts and visions clear one day, let us suppose.  But you will always see that your existence, consciousness is always there; you cannot make yourself disappear totally.  Only when you are having thoughts in touch with the brain, if the brain goes to sleep or becomes unconscious, you also become unconscious of the world around you temporarily.  But you are holding the imaginations.  Thus, either you will take a new birth if the brain is dead, or when the brain becomes active, it’s up, then you get sucked into the brain, then the imagination goes berserk and mad.  This is what happens. 

That can be controlled by practicing meditation.  Slowly you can withdraw the mind from the brain’s reflections or clutches without harming the health of the brain.  That’s why I have always tried to tell, the mind is not a by-product of the brain.  It is a separate existence, at least for now, for you to understand.  Mind is your consciousness, your energy, and the brain is the biological organ in the body which will die.  And then you will achieve either a total liberation or a next birth, depending on your imagination effects, how you maintain in your consciousness.  If it is very violent, you can be belittling your next birth.  If it is non-violent, more peacefully it is there, that means whenever it is peaceful, it is contented, they are simultaneous.  If it is contented, it will be silent.  If it is silent, it is contented because there is no desire at all.  Then it can achieve total liberation, not to be reborn, merge with the Self. 

These are the languages used for this purpose only.  Otherwise, when you come closer to that truth you will understand it is neither there nor not there.  Means you cannot tell what it is.  That is the final truth, what it is.  You become silent.  The Masters became silent when they achieved that nirvikalpa samadhi, like this.

Question:   Amazing.  Thank You, Babaji.  Baba, You’ve said before that the world cannot move in the silence of the mind.  It has to be imagined.  So, a separate universe exists in our mind.  Baba, You’ve said that before, that a separate world exists in the mind.  So, it’s a universe only because we have thought it to be a universe.  So, Baba, what is the universe out there that is outside our consciousness, outside our mind?

Babaji Maharaj:   This is a very strange and peculiar thing, may not be conclusive, however, to my observation a little bit I will try to tell.  Inside the mind there is a world that you can handle now with the help of your mind’s potency.  But this universe which is appearing outside your mind, you may not be able to handle, because the potency of your mind is very less compared to the potency of the higher consciousness which has created this universe with imagination technology.  Only when you reach that highest consciousness, you can handle it and make this disappear.  Now you cannot make this disappear, it will be visible.  Only when you achieve nirvikalpa samadhi, you will realize what the truth is.  But when you come back out of the samadhi, this will be visible. 

Only a yogi achieves, He doesn’t imagine anything about this world, He doesn’t make any judgment at all.  He is in silence, that means He is in the real Truth of Self, being there, just there in itself.  So thus, for Him the universe, He knows this is only a vague dream, an imagined creation.  That’s why some time ago in answering a question I told, “Universe has appearance value but doesn’t have existence value”.  Because everything will disappear, all impermanent.  It will not be like this always, whether it is sun, moon, anything; earth, stars, everything will come and go, come, appear and disappear, appear and disappear. 

See, through astronomy nobody is able to come to any conclusion.  And some time ago somebody had written, a great scientist telling that along with the expansion of the universe, consciousness also expands.  In return I told, only when the consciousness expands then the universe also expands.  That is the clue in your mind.  If your mind, world inside your mind is expanding, more stories coming, more such things are happening, that means your consciousness is active there, it is imagining, it is expanding.  We can tell scientifically, your mind is expanding, that is why things in your mind also expanding. 

In the same way, here consciousness is expanding, thus the universe also expands.  The consciousness which is creating with the imagination technology, not the Supreme Consciousness, which is totally still, that is in mahasamadhi; that has not created anything, it simply remains in itself in Supreme Peace and Supreme Contentment.  These two things are permanent there.  Because it doesn’t imagine anything, it doesn’t need to imagine, there is no use for it to imagine anything.  Just by imagining it won’t achieve any peace or happiness, it is already peaceful.  This thing to understand is slightly difficult.  One has to go into advanced meditation and experience the silence of the mind.  So, that is how these things happen.  So, this is my opinion.

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  Babaji, You’ve said before that science is not wrong, but scientists can be wrong.  So, even though humans may not be able to comprehend the true science, is there an underlying science, a technology to everything in the universe and to the nature of the truth?  Is there actually an underlying science to that, or can we say it’s beyond even science?

Babaji Maharaj:   In my opinion, simply they should aim to reach the root cause, the final truth, and find out after which nothing else should be existing.  That is the final.  Instead of that, we try to see which our telescopes can catch, our definitions can catch, we are able to conclude, something is visible, then we call it as the truth.  If they don’t know anything, they have called it as ‘ether’.  I have highest respect for science and scientists, some great scientists have happened in this world.  We have very high respect for them also.  But they need to understand this if their idea is to go for the Ultimate Truth.  Everybody may not be going, people may be trying for more powerful, more powerful, more powerful things, see, all these things happen. 

But if that is the idea, great scientists who happened, they wanted to go for the Ultimate Truth.  I have heard from some of our students that Einstein said, to reach that Ultimate Truth… he had a little bit idea, he got it, but he also understood you have to cross the barrier of time and space; time means your mind’s imagination must stop, then only the time stops.  Space stops when your mind stops.  Means any definition about space or anything all stops when you become quiet.  You don’t have any definition for the space also.  Space we have defined for sake of understanding.  That’s why we have to use the word ‘space’ by teaching.  But when I am quiet, that is the real truth.  I’m not defining that space also, what it is – so thus you reach the Ultimate Truth. 

And that is the thing; another beautiful clue that Vasistha gives is, “It exists in itself.”  So, it is in front of you.  Anybody who can comprehend what is it that exists in itself – that is in front of you.  Simply once you are able to understand this Truth, this has to be the final Truth.  Beyond this, nothing can be there.  So, then you would have realized what is Divinity, why we call it as Divinity, is also important.

Question:   Baba, how did the ancient sages know how to realize the Ultimate Truth?  They simply went inwards quietening the mind and eventually just discovered it?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, one of the schools, they thought, “Which could be the truth that is available as the physical body or inside?”  When they went on seeing, all the things that were appearing connected to the physical body, they thought “It is impermanent, this cannot be the truth.”  A thing that has appeared and will disappear will go away; is impermanent and cannot be the truth then.  A thing which has never appeared, which will not disappear – that’s what we have to look for.  To look for, they understood, “Silently, with total focused consciousness, we need to observe.”  This also they understood.  That was their genius minds that worked.  The inspiration comes from within, always.  For many scientists also, about many scientific truths, inspiration came from inside – when the apple fell down on the head, or when they discovered so many other truths are there, or invented flying machines, and this, that, so many things, everything.  Like that, it all comes from within by observing; some time, suddenly it occurs, “O, this is the truth.” 

When you are able to concentrate your mind and really keep wondering what the truth is, then it occurs.  Then they went on observing that.  That is how they could stop all thoughts and visions.  What they saw, observed – that consciousness of existence does not disappear.  They thought, “This is the one, this infinite is the Truth,” and they went on observing.  That is how meditation and tapas got evolved, probably since time immemorial, which is also recognized as this amazing knowledge coming from the Divinity – from the Ultimate Truth itself. 

The source is obviously the Ultimate Truth only.  From there only the individual consciousness has come out and it would have pressed how to go back.  To help this individual imagined self to go back to the Self, only the real Self can help.  That is the real inner Guru.  That is the one from where the inspiration comes.  An understanding comes, “What am I supposed to do?  How can we achieve this?”  Until then you’re applying your intellectual things, intellectual things, go on explaining, go on trying to know new, new theories.  It’s a never-ending process.

Question:   Yes, hello, Babaji.  I have two very quick questions.  Can you say that at the level of the Parabrahman, the Supreme Consciousness and Supreme Energy are also imaginations, since the Parabrahman does not really need anything?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, to teach only we have to use the nearest imagination; “That status is Supreme Peace.”  We try to use like a ‘Supreme Peace’.  There is no other peace higher than that to tell, to make understand.  Otherwise, these terminologies will all get dropped finally.

Same Questioner:   So, the Supreme Consciousness and Supreme Energy are things that, as You said, the droplet that comes from the ocean and that gives rise to creation and all that, but the Parabrahman doesn’t need any of that, right?

Babaji Maharaj:   No, Parabrahman doesn’t need, but Parabrahman is Supreme Peace and Supreme Consciousness.  In English that word.  Parabrahman is the word used in our scriptures; for the same thing I try to use an English transcription so that people can understand.  It is the same thing.

Same Questioner:   Okay, so both have the value of existence?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, yes, that is all.

Same Questioner:   Okay.  And my second question, Baba, is what is the relationship between attention and imagination?

Babaji Maharaj:   Attention is you are not imagining, but just pay attention through your consciousness, means applying your mind.  So, when you apply your mind and pay attention, you stop imagining anything; you will not be able to imagine at all if your attention is a hundred percent.  So, that is the difference.  If you are imagining, you are not able to pay a hundred percent attention also.

Same Questioner:   Thank You very much, Babaji.

Question:   Humble prostrations to You, Babaji.  I seek Your kind help.  I have a doubt.  How is it that we must concentrate between the eyebrows? Can You kindly guide me, Babaji?

Babaji Maharaj:   Immediately it may appear a bit difficult because eyeballs don’t come easily into one direction.  It moves parallelly like this.  But you have to exercise patience, is very important.  Remain cool, relaxed.  Just watch the front portion.  Even if you are unable to bring eyeballs to this point also immediately, no problem.  Wherever the eyeballs are there, let it be there, but steadily just watch there without imagining what is visible.  When you practice like this for a few months, then the eyeballs start coming towards one direction on its own.  In due course of time, you will be able to bring it to in between eyebrows, will be possible.  If necessary, you can try to look down on to the nose tip.  That might be a little easier for some people.  If that is easy for you to look also, that also you can practice.  Important is single pointedly watching and not imagining.

Same Questioner:   Thank You very much, Babaji.  Thank You so much.  Humble pranaams.

Question:   Babaji, from this concept, the whole discussion we had today, where does this idea that we all are made from the same material come?  Because in Ashtavakra Samhita or generally, like even Sage Vasistha would describe that we are the same material as the Supreme Consciousness.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  You see, I gave example of how the mind exists; mind’s form is the same material.  The same Ultimate Truth is the Divine – that is the Ultimate Source, it is of the same nature.  Like mind also, as it is, it is infinite.  Nobody has seen it in naked eyes, yet it is there.  So, it is there as the combination of consciousness and energy.  This is the nearest clue that we can imagine to make the student understand.  And when one reaches the Ultimate Truth and realizes that as all-pervaded, then you realize from this only every individual soul has come out.  Because the Ultimate Truth as you realize, further there is no other existence there.  Like for example, space.  Beyond space there is nothing that exists, everywhere it is only space.  Then when you get to see the space inside the earthen pot, then you realize this space and that space are made up of the same material; that type, example.

Same Questioner:   So, Babaji, we are same material, but this consciousness is a smaller speck and has got involved in the imagination of the universe itself.  So, what came as a very bleak question, which I’m not able to express, is that when we are the same material, the imagination which we are getting, sometimes it’s sent by the Supreme Peace.  Like, let’s say when some creation occurs within us, which is the source of consciousness.  So, Babaji says that whatever is in our mind; the faith I have for Babaji, or if I’m praying, that imagination is God itself, like Supreme Consciousness.  So, my question is that speck of imagination which comes in us when we are completely silent or let’s say not involved in another sense, how is that possible?  If the Supreme Consciousness’s existence is completely quiet, how that Supreme Consciousness communicates with this imagination?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, this individual consciousness is not totally settled into the Ultimate Supreme Consciousness.  Just now, in illusion it has come out.  Though it has not come out, in illusion it has come out due to its own imaginations.  It has got involved with the brain; like this it has got involved life after life, birth after birth, it is happening.  So that is how individual imagined souls have also come into existence in imagination only, coming out of the Parabrahman, the Ultimate Truth.  So, everybody’s imagination varies now based on their own samskaaras or acquired habits.  Their imagination also differs from person to person, in touch with the brain.  So, though the mind is made up of the same material, the imagination that is in the mind is different from person to person.  That is the problem.  Once that problem ends, it goes back to the Self and gets absorbed into the Self.  That is the oneness.  Then this difference all disappears.

Same Questioner:   Got it.  Okay.  Thank You, Babaji.

Question:   Atmanandan Babaji, thank You so much for guiding us.  My question is, if everybody has come to play a role in this world, then is it the soul who’s come?  Is it the soul’s plan or is it the Divinity’s plan for that role?

Babaji Maharaj:   It is not the Divinity’s plan actually, because the Divine is in mahasamadhi.  The individuality that has happened, due to its own imaginations, it comes to this creation, means this world, for understanding.  And whatever it has acquired as habits in the mind, based on that it plays its role.  As long as it doesn’t realize about what it is, that it belongs to the Divinity as the individual soul, it doesn’t belong to this imagination actually.  Then when it is able to stop the imagination, it will go back to the Self, that is the Ultimate Truth.  So, that is how things are happening.  No one truth has imagined about every individual; individual only due to imaginations they get involved. 

Like for example, whatever you have imagination in your mind, that forms the attitude.  Based on that only the world appears to you either as a good or a bad, like one man’s food is another man’s poison.  One person may like this type of food, another person may not like the same food.  That is the thinking difference that has happened.  All this, if it stops, only then it will go back to the real Self that is Divinity.  That is the recommended goal, what we call it as nirvana or moksha, anything; liberation.

Same Questioner:   So, Guruji, when people make wrong choices in their life, is that the pre-birth soul plan?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, previous life’s imaginations through which you have built up your destiny, that is what it is.  So that’s why we teach if you can be more positive in your mental thinking, you can shape a better positive destiny.  If you are negative in your mind, you can be shaping a negative destiny for you.  So, that is how things have happened.

Same Questioner:   So, after this lifetime, when this lifetime ends, does the soul think that, “Yes, I have accomplished what I wanted to do,” even though it was wrong?

Babaji Maharaj:   If it thinks, then it is another imagination, then it gets involved again into the next birth.  So, it won’t think like that one.  Even if it is wrong, it will never be satisfied that “I have accomplished.”  It always starts thinking, “Maybe I could have done something else, maybe I could have done a better thing, something like this.”  It starts thinking with the doership.  That is how it gets involved into the next birth based on its thinking.

Same Questioner:   Okay, Sir.  I have one last question about my meditation.  When I’m sitting long for meditation, my head suddenly drops and that interrupts my meditation.  So, is that okay or should I try not to let my head drop?

Babaji Maharaj:   Try not to do that one.  If necessary, you can sit to the wall with a pillow or a cushion and straight so that the head doesn’t fall.  Take care that it shouldn’t fall.  You bring it back again.  If it keeps happening repeatedly, better to get up for two minutes, wash your face with water, then come back refreshed, come and sit and continue again would be better.

Same Questioner:   Okay, Guruji.  Thank You.

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.  Thank You for Your teachings.  My question was that many teachings say that consistent daily meditation can eventually lead to samadhi.  So, I was wondering if that is so, what is the purpose of tapas?  Is tapas necessary for realization or is it simply an acceleration to the path?

Babaji Maharaj:   No, you see, meditation’s highest pitch is known as tapas.  Like my Guru used to tell, for one hour when you are able to keep the concentration and keep the mind quiet and remain focused, that is the real meditation, means ‘paying attention to’.  Then when you are able to do like this for more than eight hours in a stretch, then the tapas begins; that becomes to be known as tapas.  ‘Tapas’ word is used so that you burn all acquired habits of the mind once for all and make it silent so that it can merge with the Self and you become Self-realized.  That is how it happens.

Same Questioner:   Thank You.

Question:   Yeah, hi Guruji.  My question is, if the Self is non-dual and non-duality is the reality, then what’s the point of anything anyways?

Babaji Maharaj:   Here, every individual is not able to realize with their own imaginations that oneness.  So, to realize that oneness should be the purpose.  But having come into this world, to sustain the physical body also becomes a challenge.  For that you have to work, you need to eat food to sustain the body.  If the body is available, through the body only you will be able to realize that oneness.  You have to realize.  If you don’t realize, you will be again and again reborn again, reborn again based on your thought effects.  So, that is how the purpose you have to choose.  [pause] Got it?

Same Questioner:   Got it.  Thank You.

Babaji Maharaj:   Any more question you have?

Same Questioner:   Yeah, You said “When I’m not there I don’t have to feel or react to anything at all. I’m not there,” You said.  If you go to that level of nothingness and whenever something arises, how do we not get involved with it again?

Babaji Maharaj:   Like when something arises in the mind, only that thing is visible to you what arises as a thought or a vision.  But the mind is not visible to the naked eyes easily.  It appears to be a space, simply.  Many people tend to think there is nothing, only a space is there.  But when you realize this consciousness of existence, when the mind becomes totally silent, then you will understand that this space is not simply space, it is the consciousness of existence.  That is how you will realize one day.

Same Questioner:   Yeah, that sounds very simple but while doing it, it seems kind of challenging.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, I understand.  I agree with you.  It’s not as easy as we said.  It requires a consistent practice – determination, discipline and patience are the real mantras that are needed.  If you are determined with discipline, you approach with consistent practice, then one day you will be able to achieve, you will become the master of your mind.

Same Questioner:   Great, all to achieve just that silence.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, yes.  Practice.

Question:   Thank You, Babaji, thank You, pranaams.  Today in my meditation, or some days, today, there seem to be innumerable infinite thoughts and concerns.  I’m just wondering… and there’s a lot of complexity, there’s a lot of things going on and interrelations going on in my life.  Would it be… I feel that maybe some things might be getting less entangling, but would it be necessary for realization to come out of the complexity of the external world?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  You see, this external world always gives problems to everybody, because people of different temperaments, everybody tries to exercise their own temperament, whatever they are used to.  They seldom understand the other person.  Due to this, complications always arise in relationships or any such things, it keeps happening.  Either, if both are able to adjust and manage, then that can be sorted out.  That is one side.  But when you practice meditation, take care that these things do not bother you there.  You think, assure yourself, “That can be attended later, let me do meditation now.” 

Because when your mind becomes more concentrated and quiet, then when you get up, you will see that lot of changes in you, you won’t be confused easily, you won’t lose heart or hope in life, you will try to sort out.  If it is possible, it happens, if it doesn’t happen, still no worry.  Some other door will open.  If one door closes, the Divine will open another door.  Like that.  That is all humans can do when we have to tackle things.  Things may not happen according to our wishes always, but at least we don’t lose our peace and we have better understanding that we have to have the acceptance also if things don’t work.  If it works, it’s good, doesn’t work, it’s no problem.  Some other door, it will open somewhere else.  You’ll find peace.  Like that you have to find your peace.  This will come when you practice meditation.  I’ll pray for you.  I understand.

Same Questioner:   Pranaams Babaji.  Thank You.

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.

Same Questioner:   Babaji, I have a question, a few questions.  And my question is that I always hold in my mind that there is no time left.  It’s always coming in my mind.  And I also feel like the world is like illusions.  Like as we sleep, we sleep for eight hours.  I also feel like eight hours sleep, if we stay for like 70 years, 60 years, I feel like we are for a physical body as an illusion for 60, 70 years.  So, I was thinking like that.  Sometimes I feel like going to remote area for samadhi or something like that.  Because for a beginner, I think it is difficult to stay in a community.  We have to communicate, to update to bank, to talk, and to talk with the parents and everything like that.  So, Babaji said to attend the Ultimate Truth, the awareness, one must stay in a noble silence and discipline is needed.  So, to have such discipline, do we have to stay in a remote area for the beginner?  Because in a community it’s very hard.  I feel like that.

Babaji Maharaj:   Not necessary, depending on the way of life that you would have adopted.  If you have relatives, if you have any such people, if you have friends, if you need to be in the community, for your sake, sometimes they can be helpful when you are in need of such thing.  So, staying in a remote area may not be easy all alone.  So, that is not necessary.  During meditation avoid thinking of any such involvement.  And with the community also, minimum involvement is advocated always.  Try to be whatever you need.  All the time you don’t have to spend gossiping with them.  A little bit whenever you need to communicate, communicate.  Other times you try to be in silence whenever possible, sit alone in your room, try to meditate like that one.  If you do that one, once community people understand what is your routine also, they won’t disturb you much.  They will think, “O, she will be meditating.  We should not disturb her,” once they understand routine. 

Like that, if you practice and work out a timetable, then still it will be possible to stay in a community and meditate also will be possible.  Think positively that whatever time is there that you practice, it will always be like fixed deposit, helpful.  Even if death happens to the body, in the next life you will continue more vigorously from childhood itself.  This is guaranteed in spirituality.  So, you must not worry, “Time is running, time is running, how long I will be able to do?”  Don’t have to worry about it, forget about it.  Don’t remember that time at all.  Be enthusiastic, be hopeful always, “I’ll be continuously doing; the Divine will help me, the Guru‘s blessings will be there.  If not this life, next life I will definitely achieve.”  Like that have a positive thought, then you will feel enthusiastic and happy.  I will pray for you.  My blessings.  Take care.

End of Session