SHIVA RUDRA BALAYOGI

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The Mind and its Imaginations – online Q&A, No.164

Recorded on 28 January 2024 with US participants

0:00 Introduction
0:13 “It’s not the mind that knows but because of the mind that we know”
1:24 The mind getting involved in the imaginations, away from the pure consciousness
6:03 Distinction between pure consciousness and the sense of “I”
11:14 Is consciousness in every atom of creation?
12:27 Creation and the dilution of the consciousness away from the Self
17:24 Has consciousness gotten involved into imaginations through ignorance?
18:02 The same mind in illusion has to be used to find the way back home too?
20:53 What is god?
23:23 Is it possible to pray to the Divine and be blessed by the Divine?
24:49 Having faith in Babaji to take us to Self Realization
27:10 Does illusion just belong to me or is the universe one shared illusion experienced differently by each of us?
31:55 How to get to the stage of thinking “a problem is no problem”
33:46 When we still the mind do we tap into the potentiality of creation?
35:30 When we engage the mind in creativity
37:37 Is there a difference between samadhi and mahasamadhi?
40:08 Does meditation require effort or is it effortless?
41:48 What is the trigger that makes the last thought the last thought?
44:12 Experiencing happiness and unhappiness in meditation
48:00 Peace, beyond bliss

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No.  164
The Mind and its Imaginations

Recorded: 28 January 2024 with US participants

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Baba, the first question.  Would You comment on the phrase, “It’s not the mind that knows, but because of the mind we know.”  Two things there.  It’s not the mind that knows, but because of the mind we know. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  So, it is we, when we know we call it as the mind.  It is the same ‘I’.  The mind itself is quiet because it is a combination of consciousness and energy.  So, that’s how things happen.  Mind knowing means, the mind imagines and knows what it imagines.  But when the ‘I’ comes to know, it is becoming aware of the truth – Not of any imagination, not of any definition, not of any other terminologies, not even the ‘I’. 

Question:   Well, Baba, so normally, at least I think of the mind as everything that is presented in the field of consciousness.  It could be ideas, images, memories, desires.  But they are all things outside.  I am witnessing those.  Someone is watching those things that are being projected in consciousness.  And so, they seem like they kind of hide…  We tend to get identified with those things that we are imagining in our mind.  Or ideas and thoughts and everything that is arising in our mind, our consciousness tends to get identified with that.  And we become unaware of ourselves.  But as we meditate, we quiet the mind; basically the whole idea is to quiet the mind and have the attention go back on the consciousness instead of being on all the objects of consciousness, everything in the mind.  So, You’ve said when things are appearing in consciousness, when their waves are appearing on the ocean, that’s mind.  And when the ocean is silent, that’s just pure consciousness.  The mind doesn’t seem to know itself.   Especially how you might have experiences where you’re just kind of witnessing everything happening,  it’s all happening automatically, it’s all just projection.  You’re not involved, you’re just watching it. 

Babaji Maharaj:   That is because mind is not quiet.  It is involved into its own imaginations.  Means its attention is on its own imaginations.  So thus, it is aware of what it is imagining.  It is not aware of itself.  And hardly anybody bothers what the mind itself is.  We all tend to think that mind means the thoughts and visions that are coming; “Oh, this is the mind.”  But what is that ‘This’?  Nobody would bother much.  So that is what is pure consciousness and energy.  This pure consciousness is when mind becomes totally quiet, means giving up all its thoughts and visions, everything.  Neither this or that, good or bad, nothing.  Everything.  It is totally silent.  Then it is aware of itself.  That is pure consciousness.  The clue that for teaching’s sake we use the terminology ‘pure consciousness.’ 

Question:   Well, one seems permanent and one seems temporary.  Thoughts come and go, desires come and go, aspirations, ideas of what we think truth is. 

Babaji Maharaj:   They are all impermanent, impermanent.  Just like the universe also is impermanent.  But the space is permanent.  So, in the same way whatever thoughts and visions come in the mind, any form, any manifestations, anything, they are all impermanent, finally; the permanent is that itself.  Pure consciousness itself is the permanent.  It doesn’t disappear.  That’s why we try to tell while teaching, when you practice meditation, slowly as you are able to get rid of thoughts and visions, when the mind is becoming silent, that means mind is regaining its original form of pure consciousness.  Then you will always experience the consciousness of existence which will not disappear.  Because it is not an imagined thought.  It is not an impermanent entity.  It is the eternal permanent entity.  And it is a reality.  It is not an imagined appearance.  So, that’s why the consciousness of existence is always there. 

Question:   So, that goes back to my original question.  So the consciousness seems like the permanent thing and anything in the mind seems like the impermanent thing. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes. 

Question:   But there is a distinction, I believe, between just consciousness and consciousness of existence or pure consciousness, I should say.  When there is ego, even if that sense of ‘I’ is there, that’s mind which is creating that sense of ‘I’.  But when you go beyond the sense of ‘I’, when the mind becomes completely silent, then…

Babaji Maharaj:   That is how, you see, before the merger of this ‘I-ness’ also, then you experience an eternal entity of the Self.  But when this also merges, the ‘I’ also disappears.  Consciousness of existence dissolves into the consciousness.  Then there is neither consciousness of existence nor consciousness.  Because there is nobody to identify it, it is only the single entity, single Self exists.  When single Self exists, it doesn’t identify anything about itself or anything else.  The permanence is in the existence and not in the identity.  So, that’s how that identity also merges.  The ‘I’ also disappears or dissolves.  Only one Self simply exists. 

Question:   Is that what You refer to as the consciousness of eternal existence?  Or is that that point just before that where it knows its eternal existence?

Babaji Maharaj:   Only when in the consciousness of existence, you use a terminology of ‘consciousness’ for sake of understanding – that is the nearest next final terminology.  But once this consciousness of existence also dissolves, then consciousness also dissolves.  Because the one who is identifying it as consciousness, when that itself has dissolved, then that identity of consciousness also dissolves.  But it is there, but not with any identity.  It is beyond any attributions. 

Question:   So that’s the tendencies to have consciousness, meaning knowingness, there is some ‘knower’, an ‘I-am-ness’.  And then you have always used the term ‘pure consciousness’ which I guess would be with no ‘knower’. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah. Only I have tried to tell for sake of understanding; ‘consciousness’ means wherever you apply yourself, you become aware of that.  Now here, if you apply yourself to your imaginations, then you become aware of that imagination.  Then you stop applying yourself on to the imagination, then you gain the awareness of your real Self.  Then when that also dissolves, then everything, the awareness also, it merges actually.  It doesn’t disappear anywhere else.  It simply merges into the Self.  Only when the Self exists, it doesn’t identify anything because it is totally quiet, in silence.  That is what is known as Mahasamadhi

Question:   So, that becomes infinite?

Babaji Maharaj:   Infinite.  Simply infinite.

Question:   It doesn’t disappear.  It becomes infinite. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Might be a slight bewilderment for anybody listening.   Just for sake of understanding, slowly as the ‘I’ also disappears, consciousness also dissolves.  You are that space.  Simply as the space you exist.  But for now, space appears to be a void with definition.  But actually, there is no definition for space.  Its appearance is like that; whichever way you imagine it would appear to you as a zero, as an absolute.  Absolute, because it is all-pervaded.  It is zero because nothing appears to be there actually. 

Question:   So, Baba, when you become infinite, you can’t have any boundaries.  You are beyond all boundaries. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, unbounded.  There is no boundary because there is no definition. 

Question:   So, Baba, is consciousness in every atom of creation?  Does every living being have a sense of that ‘I am-ness’ or ‘beingness’ or existing?

Babaji Maharaj:   In some way or other, depending on the brain that is in the body, whether developed or underdeveloped, or in animals, whatever medical terms might recognize in whichever way, depending on that only, that ‘-ness’ also comes up.  If it is not there, nothing comes.  So, that is what it is.  But the consciousness is there because it is all-pervaded. 

Question:   So, is matter just solidified consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.  Just like within the mind, a matter appears.  So only a projected appearance is what is the matter that is in the mind. 

Question:   Baba, watching this series on creation of the universe – they say the universe is thirteen and a half billion years old or something.  But that it started with some energy fields and then subatomic particles and atoms and molecules.  Then the molecules, at some point they became the elements, the five elements, and then the five elements had to create some kind of body.  In order for there to be a mind, there had to be a body.  In order for the ‘I am’ to be there, there had to be a mind.  To know your existence, somebody has to know the existence.  We are doing the reverse, kind of going back to the One.  But it just showed that the picture in your mind is that over thirteen and a half billion years, but at some point, those forms, subatomic particles had to form into elements and those had to form into a body in order to have a mind, in order for consciousness to be expressed in this human body.  And then, anyway… 

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, what is important is, going back means, while going back we are totally assured that our existence is eternal.  We are not going to become extinct.  This is one thing.  So, another thing, when the purest Parabrahman, if an imagination had occurred, if it had stopped to the level of Brahma, Vishnu and Maheshwara with the pure consciousness awareness about the Self and remaining in the Self without any identification, then the problem wouldn’t have occurred.  But further it went on, further, further.  The consciousness went on splitting and getting diluted.  It became like angels and demons and so on, creatures and creatures, humans and animals, everything it happened.  So, it got involved into a bondage because of imagination.  So, that is what is known as in Indian languages, Bhavasagara, bhava bandhana.  Bandhana mean bondage, sagara is ocean, bhava is the imagination, imagined feelings. That imagination is the bhava; because of the bhava that bhava occurs and thus you get carried away.  So, coming after a long way, when you have totally forgotten, you are miserable.  In this world, nobody can be twenty-four hours, twelve months happy at all times.  The peace is not there like that.  If that peace is there, that means it is in the Self.  Only when the mind is quiet, it enjoys the peace.  Otherwise, it is not peaceful.  If it is into imagination, it is not to be recognized as peaceful.  It is not peaceful, it is imagining.  Even if it is imagining good or pleasant things, it is still imagining; it is not really peaceful. 

Question:   It can be happy or horrified…

Babaji Maharaj:   Horrified, anything, but both – simply it is imagining, that is why temporary it appears to be there.  But it is actually not happy, it has lost its happiness because it is into imagination.  So, simply going back, it has to stop.  Means, everybody understands – enough of imaginations; if one can realize these imaginations are not going to give a permanent happiness.  That’s what occurred to me in childhood, twenty-four hours, twelve months if it is not there, that is not the real happiness.  Means it is impermanent.  For some time, it is there.  For one hour you are happy and the next hour you are unhappy.  So that doesn’t sound like any enjoyable thing.  It’s not.  It should be there at all times.  So that’s when you want to go back now.  Enough.  Some problem has happened.  Either something is wrong in me, something is wrong in this imagination, something is wrong in this world.  It is time for us to go back.  “It is enough, Shaolin.  Let’s go home.”  Finally.  So that’s what has to happen. 

Question:   So, Baba, through wrong maya, ignorance or wrong understanding, consciousness has gotten involved in imaginations and forgotten itself.  Would You say that’s correct?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, yes.  That is how it is involved in illusion and ignorance, all these terms have been used. 

Question:   But we have to use the same mind and maya to find our way back home too.  At that point we decide, like You said, you’ve had enough or you realize that it is in vain to keep going like that, doing the same thing over and over and having the same results.  That it is in vain and you’ve got to do something about it.  And what You are saying is the solution is silence your mind and you will find the golden egg. 

Babaji Maharaj:   So that’s what, two things are there.  One is if you can understand this futility of this imagination and the imagined universe, then you try to become silent.  Otherwise, if still you think that something is useful and you want to be in the world, so then at least if you have to imagine all the time, imagine such a thing which can give you happiness.  That’s what is the imagination of Divinity, God.  Because God is beyond the matter.  So, if you can imagine at least about God, “O this is also God, this is also God, everywhere it is God.  All- pervaded is God.  God is in everything, as everything, is everything.”  Like this, you try to imagine.  That is the bhakti marga, the devotional path.  If some people are still into… as long as you want to imagine, at least imagine about the atman as Vasishta tells.  You want to imagine at all, you cannot keep quiet, at least try to imagine about God.  Imagine about Divinity.  Somebody you imagine as God.  You imagine your Guru, anything.  So that will also be helpful because slowly your mind rises to a higher level.  Means its imagination quality is becoming higher.  It’s going to a higher level.  See, corrupted mind always imagining hatred and anger, want to kill somebody, want to destroy somebody, want to rob somebody, want to pickpocket somebody – these are all low-quality imaginations.  It gives pain to the mind.  Mind becomes corrupted.  You become corrupted.  But instead, you imagine God.  You imagine about Divinity.  “O Divine is all-pervaded.  This Divine form is so beautiful.  Divine’s name is so beautiful.”  That is bhakti marga.  So your imagination is going to a higher level. 

Question:   This is perfect because this week we are preparing for my mom’s celebration of life.  My mom was Catholic, so I had to read a lot of scriptures to understand what to say at the church.  And they are talking about God.  Then I went into this whole spinning thing of what is God?  God doesn’t exist.  I have been so in the non-dualism, the Self –  then I was like, “Well, what is God?”.  And so, I came to a different understanding.  I went through this process.  But I want to know what is God?  What is God?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, ultimate truth of Self that we are talking, that you get the clue, right? When mind merges into the Self, when the ‘I-ness’ also goes, consciousness of existence disappears, only pure consciousness remains.  All these things we have been discussing.  That pure consciousness is what is recognized as Divinity.  I have long ago, since long ago I started using Divinity word because if we try to use word God, for people’s imagination, a personality appears.  But it is not a personality.  It is a Supreme Consciousness.  For that I have given the clue.  You see, your mind is infinite.  It is combination of consciousness and energy.  Nobody can see it in the naked eyes.  So, if this mind is a droplet, its ultimate truth is what is recognized as Divinity.  So now as I was trying to explain, if at all you need to imagine, imagine about God.  Though it is impossible to imagine God as it is.  Just like you cannot imagine how long and how wide the space is, impossible.  It is boundless.  That’s how God also, Divinity also.  You cannot simply imagine.  Simply to raise the quality of your imagination, devotional path is taught that God exists.  God exists, not as a personality anywhere in the space.  The space itself is the Divinity. 

Question:   But is there that ability to pray to the Divine and be blessed by that Divine?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes. Now, why pray to that Divine?  Highest prayer is taught.  If you adopt simply the remembrance of that Divinity without any particular prayer of what you want, then what happens? All your unhappiness and sins – sins means whatever mistakes the mind had done because of which it had come out of Divinity – will be vanished once for all.  You will merge with that Divinity.  Suppose now you are talking of some prayers for your mother or anything.  Considering that mother also with a better understanding, that also is a soul like you, not with the physical appearance, physical body.  You pray to the Divine, “You take that soul back to You for a permanent, restful peace.  And thus, bless me also not to be reborn again.”  That can be the highest prayer recognizing the Divinity or God. 

Question:   So, Baba, this is an incredible session today.  What came to me was that the whole Crest Jewel of Discrimination is superimposition – You have the ‘I’ thought and then I’m superimposing this whole world in my imagination onto reality.  So, just the fact that there are seventy people here on this Zoom call that brought You into our life has to be very significant for each one of us that we want to become Self-realized.  And so then it really is a matter of removing our doubts that we’re worthy of it? Can You share about this?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, you see, you are already blessed to be sitting with me in this Zoom session.  Means you had positively pressed a button for your salvation like this, that you come across a Self-realized Guru.  And then sitting here, your imagination is very highest that Baba is a Self-realized soul.  Otherwise, you can, anybody can be simply thinking, “O, he’s simply an old man with a white beard talking some nonsense.”  So, to them only that will be visible, a Self-realized soul or the Divinity will not be visible.  So that’s what we are trying to teach.  If at all you have to imagine, imagine the highest.  That is what is faith and devotion which can work wonders for you.  It can lead you to salvation finally.  It is your faith what is important than what I am as a personality.  So, that’s what the incredible things we try to teach always.  Even if you have read in Jesus’ life, many times when people said that “You blessed us, You graced upon us, then You saved us.”  But Jesus used to say, “It is your faith which saved you.” 

Question:   Hey everyone, good morning Babaji.  So, I have a question.  Recently someone had asked this question.  He asked, “Does my illusion belong only to me or is the universe one shared illusion experienced differently by each of us?”  And You stated “By practice of meditation, first you need to overcome the illusion that there is a ‘me’ illusion, a ‘you’ illusion or other illusion.  There is no such thing as you, me or other.  There is only one illusion.  I want to recap and go back to the statement when Babaji said there is only one illusion.  What does Babaji mean there is only one illusion, when You say there is no such thing as me, you and other, but at the same time, in the same sentence You say that there is only one illusion.  What do you mean by this one illusion?”

Babaji Maharaj:   Pay attention, total attention what I am going to say.  When you dream, it is you who watch your dream and inside the dream, many characters are there, many stories are there.  And you experience yourself in all those characters.  It cannot be different because it is your mind which is experiencing.  That is how – and you are watching also.  So, you are watching one single illusion which has split into many appearances, giving you an illusion that so many people are having illusions.  But actually, there are no so many people, so there are no so many illusions.  Only one illusion is there.  Once you get rid of that one illusion, all other illusions also disappear.  Like in India, in some of the temples, to give this a clue of explanation, two mirrors are kept one in front of the other.  When you watch into the mirror, hundreds of mirrors will be visible.  Whereas in reality, only two mirrors are there, one to the other.  One is watching, another is imagining, but both are also same.  If skillfully, one mirror is removed, then all the hundreds of mirrors that appear inside the mirror, they also get removed.  So, that is how it is only one single mirror which is creating all such illusions.  Here that is the amazing wonder of the things, illusion that has happened.  That is how we tell it is only a single illusion, one single soul getting involved into that illusion; it is you.  As soon as you are able to get rid of that illusion by meditation, you will see all illusions disappearing.  Nobody has any illusion at all.  It is Divinity only, all-pervaded. 

Question:   So, when You say to get rid of the illusion, you mean this person that is currently talking right now?  Once this illusion dissolves, everyone else goes?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, that doesn’t mean that you have to end the body, not through that.  First you have to get rid of the illusion that is in your mind through the practice of meditation, then you will reach a higher consciousness.  And this body will go on its own.  Before, while this body is alive also, you will be able to experience that one illusion.  All the universe’s disappearance you can experience when you reach a higher consciousness through a deep meditation. 

Question:   OK, you said to get rid of the illusion that is in my mind.  What is the illusion that is in my mind?

Babaji Maharaj:   The imagination; mind is chatterbox, mind is imagining.  That is why mind is watching all the thoughts and visions there in the mind.  That is the illusion.  So, if you just watch, the technique that we teach of meditation, then you can get rid of all those imaginations.  Imaginations means illusions.  They will all dissolve.  Pure consciousness can be experienced.  Bless you. 

Question:   Hi Baba.  Nice to see you.  On social media this week, You talked about “Don’t let yourself get affected by the world.”  You said that “This is a detachment, that you are always smiling, and you always say no problem.”  So, my question is, how do I get to that stage – just by sitting, just by trusting and having faith?

Babaji Maharaj:   Having faith means a firm conviction comes; “Whatever I am experiencing is first simply due to my own imagination.  Whether a pain, whether an unhappiness, whether a good, whether happiness, anything is because my mind is imagining” – that firm conviction.  This can be experienced only in the meditation as the thoughts and visions dissolve in the mind.  Then mind becomes purified.  Then you will slowly understand this universe also is only an appearance.  It is only a make-believe movie.  “It will be alright.  Everything is alright.  Only I had created.  So, I have to temporarily experience and it will be alright one day.” 

Same Questioner:   The other thing that was exciting, You are talking about using the name of God. Sometimes in meditation if I get stuck, I’ll just find myself saying the words out loud even, “God”.  And I’ll say it again, “God”.  And I find that my mind just settles down when I say that in the middle of meditation.  So, it’s great to hear You say that and affirm that for me. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Good.  That’s what is the technique.  That will be helpful. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You. 

Question:   Hello Baba.  This is a follow up to Agastya’s questions about consciousness and I’m so glad he went there because I’ve kind of been getting through this.  So, I wrote it down because it’s kind of hard to get out.  So, You had said the texture and substrate of pure consciousness is like the field of potential where thought comes into creation.  More or less. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah. 

Same Questioner:   Is it correct to say that when we can still the mind, we tap into that inherent potential or energy before it turns into something of existence? And which side are we on? When the mind is gone, we’re created, so are we in the creation or are we able to just be in the field? Or is it connected?

Babaji Maharaj:   When the mind is gone means it has not gone anywhere.  First thing, that language is important.  It is there.  It has regained the form of pure consciousness.  So that means it is not in the imagined field.  It is in itself.  That it is what is recognized as soul, atman, like this.  So, you are in That, in the real Self. 

Same Questioner:   So, because of the limitation of words, we are in the potential when the mind is still, we’re in the potential of all of creation and not in the creation itself. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes. 

Same Questioner:   Wow.  And I guess that kind of negates the second part of this because I feel like creativity, when people are engaged in creativity we go very much into that place of creation where we’re using that, pulling out of the field.  So, when we’re not thinking and just working on solving problems or art or music or whatever, we’re kind of like at that juncture of where that potential comes into form.  Is that why people love creativity and go back to creativity and use that sometimes? 

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, now important, mind going into creativity itself is not a problem.  But if you lose yourself into that creativity then you are likely to become miserable.  That’s what the alertness is. 

Same Questioner:   But let’s just not say we’re creating our lives in our world but just creating a piece of art or a piece of music or anything. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Anything, anything. You create. Don’t get carried away with that created thing.  You are the one who have created and you have an amazing potency; you don’t have to be becoming that created thing which is a small micro speck thing. 

Same Questioner:   So, I’ll finish up.  So I’m trying to change things in my life – like we said we’re doing the same thing over and again and it’s not working.  So, the best way to change those things is to come back to that pure point of stillness and create from there to manifest a better way to exist in this world?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, that’s why you have become split into millions and millions and millions.  So now you gather yourself, become single-pointed, then you are in a better position to be creative. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You so much Baba.  I think this completely just changed my life.  Thank You, thank You, thank You. 

Question:   Namaskaar Babaji.    Nice to see You again.  My question was about samadhi.  You said when the awareness also dissolves then you are in mahasamadhi.  So, is there a difference between samadhi and mahasamadhi?

Babaji Maharaj:   While the body is alive actually it can be called a nirvikalpa samadhiMahasamadhi happens when the body is dropped for a yogi because there are no desires.  He is totally merged into the Self as a jivanmukta.  So, when the body is dropped, He becomes one with the Divinity that is all pervaded which is in mahasamadhi, recognized with this terminology.  So that is what is known as mahasamadhi.  When a yogi drops the physical body, He would become one with the mahasamadhi. 

Same Questioner:   What is samadhi then?

Babaji Maharaj:   Samadhi is achieving stillness of the mind.  Some teachers have explained in a different way, because samadhi can be a common word.  So, stillness.  Now some people tell of savikalpa samadhi.  If it is into one type of imagination and is still over there that is like a savikalpa, there is some vikalpa there; savikalpa samadhi, but it is single-pointed.  Then it has to go to nirvikalpa.  When there is no vikalpa at all, no iota of any imagination, not even the ‘I’, then the nirvikalpa samadhi happens.  That is the final Self-realization that is recognized. 

Same Questioner:   Is that what Ramakrishna Paramahansa had, savikalpa samadhi

Babaji Maharaj:   Nirvikalpa samadhi.  First, He used to have the savikalpa samadhi in the Mother Kali – He started as a devotee of Mother Kali, but He did great tapas also.  So, that was when Totapuri came, wanted to initiate Him into nirvikalpa samadhi.  He always used to tell, “I am able to withdraw senses, my mind from all sensory things, but Mother Kali is there.  She doesn’t disappear.”  Then He [Sri Totapuri] gets annoyed and pierces His forehead with a piece of glass.  “How come you are unable to do that one?  Stop.  Your Mother Kali is dead.  I have killed her.”  Then He goes to nirvikalpa samadhi.  Several days He remained like that. 

Same Questioner:   I have another question.  Does meditation require effort?  Or is it effortless?

Babaji Maharaj:   It requires effort in the beginning.  So, until you switch on the engine, press the accelerator, that effort is necessary.  Then the vehicle will move automatically.  In the same way, first you need to get rid of thoughts.  For that you have to practice watching.  That effort to just watch, that’s what is your effort to practice remaining quiet.  Once that happens, then effortlessly it will remain quiet. 

Same Questioner:   So, I found that to come to that point of no thoughts, sometimes it takes me a long time to ignore the imaginations and thoughts.  And sometimes it is short, but  I have still not taken flight.  I am still on the runway so to speak. 

Babaji Maharaj:   It happens.  It is like a dual battle.  Sometimes mind feels very inspired, motivated and quickly comes into effect.  Sometimes it delays if it has any doubts or it is unable to feel inspired, somewhere, something.  So, that is what happens.  So, it’s like a dual battle, up and down, up and down, keeps happening.  So, it will come down.  Finally, it will feel inspired and it will become quiet. 

Same Questioner: So, just ignore and continue? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Ignore and continue.

Same Questioner:   Thank You. 

Question:   Namaste Babaji.  So, please solve this mystery for me.  What is the trigger or mechanism that makes the last thought the last thought? And this is like a multiple-choice question.  Is it the leap of faith by the aspirant that makes the last thought the last thought? Is it Divine grace?  Is it the recognition in the futility of thinking to bring permanent happiness?  What makes the last thought the last thought, or the last imagination?

Babaji Maharaj:   All these combined work.  Detachment; your firm conviction that except the Self, everything else is illusion, does not exist.  And then faith; that that is the right thing, faith. The Divine Master is there, what He taught you is the right thing.  There is no question of any doubt, no iota of doubt.  And have faith that the grace will descend definitely.  Wait for that.  It will happen.  So, all these three combined will take you there.  So, finally, your ability to remain quiet with all the patience.  So, when you have all these three, detachment and faith that the grace will descend, and faith in yourself that you have to remain quiet.  That is all you have to do.  When you go on remaining quiet, then it happens. 

Same Questioner:   But there’s that moment when the last thought comes and ‘done’, no more thoughts, no more imaginations, extinguished.  It just happens naturally by applying these three principles that You’ve just outlined?

Babaji Maharaj:   And you will not know about that last thought, something like that.  You are trying to sleep.  You think “I need to sleep, I need to sleep.”  Finally, when the sleep comes, when was that last thought?   You will not know.  You would have gone to sleep.  Samadhi is something like that. 

Same Questioner:   That’s a good answer. 

Babaji Maharaj:   You cannot make it out.  Fine, good question. 

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  I have a question about happiness.  You speak about happiness – sometimes you use the word in different ways  it seems to me. Sometimes You speak about happiness and unhappiness and how we can get caught up in that.  And other times You speak about happiness and enjoyment as being the nature of the Self.  I remember You saying that You don’t know if You’re happy or unhappy; You know that You’re free.  And in my own meditation, sometimes I feel very happy.  I would describe it that way.  And other times it’s like a darkness or a void, sort of an unsettling feeling.  And I’m assuming there must be some thoughts I’m having there that I’m unaware of.  But this prompts me to ask the question and to ask for some clarity. 

Babaji Maharaj:   This is a very tricky thing, thin edge of difference, you need to pay attention.  When I talk of happiness and unhappiness, it means if you depend for your happiness on some external thing other than you yourself, then both follow.  Happiness is there, then unhappiness also follows because except the Self, the rest is all impermanent.  It is there and it may disappear.  It is there, it may be lost, it is there and it may go away.  Anything can happen.  So thus, an unhappiness also follows because you are depending on that thing.  Gradually, with the practice of meditation, you stop depending on anything.  Even to the extent, you don’t depend on what is happening in the meditation.  If good thoughts come, bad thoughts come, you remain unaffected with both of them.  Don’t become happy if a good thought comes, if some good visions come. When some bad visions comes and you become unhappy, then also you are depending on some external thing other than you yourself.  Gradually, with the meditation, watch, watch, watch, just watch.  That is what we insist, just watch.  If you are just watching, you give up depending on any other thing other than you yourself.  When you are simply watching, unknown to you, you settle down into yourself.  That is not a duality, that is the single entity.  Then permanent happiness is always there because you do not depend on anything else for your happiness.  You are there.  When you don’t need anything, you have the real happiness.  You can think, all of you sitting here can think again.  As long as you need something, that will make you a slave for unhappiness and craving.  Something happens, it can make you fearful, it can make you unhappy, it can make you painful, etc. etc.  Once we stop depending, then nothing, no power can bend you to your knees.  You can hold your head high and just be happy all the time. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You Babaji. 

Question:   Baba, related to that, You were probably the first person I heard say this, that Supreme Peace is beyond bliss. That was so powerful; it was such a huge impression on me.  I had experienced blissfulness and I would define blissfulness as unimaginable happiness.  But that was not a final state, there wasn’t peace in that happiness in that blissful state.  It was blissful. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Exactly, you see, now as you go on wanting happiness, happiness, finally you rise, you stop depending on happiness also for your happiness.  That’s when you become peaceful.  You don’t look for anything to give you anything at all, then you become peaceful.  That peace is composed and settles down from where it will not jump back.  Settling down.  Blissfulness is not yet settled, but it is jumping and enjoying, excited and enjoying type. 

Same Questioner:   Yeah, in peace there’s all desires are fulfilled, there’s nothing more to want.

Babaji Maharaj:   Composed, it is composed, at peace, simply at peace, doesn’t need anything.  That’s why it is simply at peace. 

Facilitator:   Okay, Baba, I think we’ve used up our time.  Thank You so much. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Wonderful, we had a wonderful evening. 

End of Questions and Answers

End of Session

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