Recorded on 16 March 2025 with US participants
0:00 Intro
2:18 Verses
3:45 In me, the universe moves driven by its own inherent nature – I am completely unaffected by it.
5:50 What makes the absolute manifest into mind?
8:06 Is mind what is responsible for things appearing in consciousness
9:10 What is the nature of manifest existence?
10:23 What is the nature of consciousness?
11:55 Why does Creation come into existence?
13:42 We are actually living our life in our own mind?
14:29 When we experience something, the object is actually there, but our interpretation is just an imagination about that object?
16:00 So it’s a cooperation between the brain, the physical organism, and the mind that fabricates the whole illusion.
17:05 Verse 5 – “What a great marvel! I’m actually pure consciousness.”
19:36 You can stop thinking and all the imagery, but you can’t make the consciousness go away, because that’s your Self.
20:19 Do you rise above that, Baba, in Nirvikalpa Samadhi or Sahaja Samadhi?
20:37 Verse 5 comments
21:49 What is watching the mind through the mind?
24:31 So there is a duality in the sense that there’s a knowingness going on, but there’s no second thing, it’s just knowing itself.
25:40 So we’re using the mind’s attention to watch itself, is that what we’re trying to accomplish with meditation?
27:28 So once you get absorbed in that point there is just seeing?
28:36 As you become absorbed in between the eyebrows, you are no longer seeing with the eyeballs, but yet you continue to see with your mind’s eye?
29:40 Reading of verses.
31:25 All the universe has arisen in this Self simply by imagination.
33:14 “You realize that this space is the ultimate Truth and Pure Consciousness.”
34:32 “Space is the source of consciousness of Self Existence.”
35:10 “Every term used is as an imagination for the sake of understanding and communication in this world.”
37:21 “The universe is also a higher consciousness magic show with no existence value”
38:32 What’s the difference between pure awareness and pure consciousness?
39:09 Which will exist after the finishing of the body and mind — Pure Awareness, or Pure Consciousness?
39:26 So awareness requires mind?
39:45 What’s the difference between Pure Consciousness and Consciousness of Existence?
40:27 Sometimes you’ve given the example, if a person is looking in a mirror, the image in the mirror can’t see the person. Is the person in that example consciousness, and the image in the mirror the mind?
41:05 Why does the mind constantly test itself?
42:41 In reality is there a specific auspicious or inauspicious time?
44:15 Why would one come back to the body after the merger has happened?
44:51 Just before the merger there’s a warmth of duality that is experienced before you merge? Can one experience loved ones before the merger?
47:41 What is the concept of ‘the feet of Lord Vishnu’?
48:51 Is the external world and what’s happening also part of the mind — the same mind as the inner mind, but a higher potency?
50:01 There is only one divinity, there is nothing else? So then everything is God?
51:22 What do you mean watch the thoughts? Either thought is not there, or I am not watching it.
53:30 You don’t try to actually watch the thought that you’re having? You just continue to watch without imagining?
54:32 My video was off during the initiation. Have I received Baba’s initiation?
55:01 Just before merging, is there any Samyama that is helpful for Moksha, or is patience all that is needed?
57:38 If you have an intention when performing samyama, will it help to manifest that intention?
58:16 Is dhyana, meditation, the ending of experience?
Nature of Self Realization – Ashtavakra Samhita, Ch7 vv1-5 | In Quest of Truth – Babaji Q&A, No. 277
YouTube link: https://youtu.be/V8yMEhu4QeE
Recorded on 16 March 2025 with US participants
Question:
Thank you for being with us, Baba, and everyone else. We’re going to continue with about half an hour or forty minutes of commentary on Ashtavakra Gita, which is an ancient text that deals with the oneness of everything. We will continue with chapter seven. Baba, this chapter it says “Janaka asks”; he’s asking his guru Ashtavakra, so is he asking for confirmation in this chapter?
Shri Babaji:
What is written? What is he asking?
Question:
I’ll read the first five verses, and then we can come back and ask you to comment on it. I was just wondering if that was the nature of this conversation between the two of them. Janaka is talking to his guru, yet he’s making statements, and it sounds like he’s asking for confirmation of his experiences, or whether what he’s experiencing or believing is true and correct? Is that the nature of this?
Shri Babaji:
Probably as Ashtavakra went on teaching, he must have focused on the Self, on the Consciousness of Existence, so whatever experiences were coming, he wanted to get it confirmed, so that means he was on the higher level already.
Question:
Okay. Baba, I’ll read the five verses, and then come back and ask for your commentary. Is that okay?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah.
Question:
Chapter 7 Verse 1. “In me, the vast boundless ocean, the ship of the universe moves, driven here and there by the wind of its own inherent nature. I am completely unaffected by it.”
Verse 2. “In me, as the limitless ocean, the waves of the universe arise and vanish by themselves. I neither gain nor lose by it.”
Verse 3. “In me, like an infinite ocean, the imagined universe of definitions and names appears to arise. But I abide alone, apart from it, completely at Peace and without form.”
Verse 4. “The Self is not in the objects, nor are the objects in the Self. Infinite and pure, the Self is free of attachment or desire, in complete peace. I abide only in That.”
Verse 5. “What a great marvel! I am actually Pure Consciousness. The universe is just like a magic show of illusion. So, how and where can there be ideas of rejecting or accepting?”
Okay, Baba, in the first question, if you break it down, it says, “In me the universe moves driven by its own inherent nature. I’m completely unaffected by it.”
Shri Babaji:
Probably by then King Janaka was already practicing very deep meditations. As he went on listening to other masters’ teachings, when Ashtavakra came also, though he had not achieved the Nirvikalpa Samadhi or a total Self-Realization, he was deeply into meditation, quietening the mind, and he was experiencing. So, as Ashtavakra went on talking about it, it was like endorsing his experiences, means Janaka’s experiences. So, that’s when Janaka gains more confidence and talks about it. Just like if we take the clue of the mind, the mind, I always try to explain gradually, the mind is nothing but you yourself. You are thinking, that’s why all thoughts are within you; the thoughts are not beyond you. But whatever has appeared is simply an illusion, because it doesn’t affect, it doesn’t glue to the mind. Simply an appearance value is there. The moment you become quiet, they will all disappear. So, that’s what he is trying to explain here; “In me only, this ocean of me”, he is giving an example of the ocean. So, everything appears and everything disappears.
Question:
So, there’s the ‘me’, which means the conscious, pure consciousness, and then “driven by the wind of its own nature”. So, Baba, what makes the absolute or pure consciousness manifest into mind, and what makes mind manifest into activity and creation?
Shri Babaji:
Simply in illusion, in materiality nothing can really happen. The very formation of the mind is like that. But it imagines, so an imagined appearance happens, and that will also disappear also. When it appears, if we consider it as a reality and get involved with that, then that picture continues. And we forget that at all times we are simply imagining, and there is really no such picture. But we imagine as if there is a picture, as if there is a personality, as if there is an incident, a story that is happening, because the mind is totally pure consciousness, that is what he is trying to tell.
Like space and matter, if you observe, nothing can glue to one another. The space cannot glue to matter. Matter cannot glue to space. It appears to be that matter is in the space, and sometimes the space appears to be engulfing the matter, but both are free to itself. The only bondage is that matter cannot go beyond space, it has to be playing within the space, but yet space is more free because space is beyond the matter. So, that is how he is trying to explain here.
Question:
Baba, is mind what is responsible for things appearing in consciousness?
Shri Babaji:
This is a very tricky, mind-boggling thing. The combination of mind and brain that I have been trying to tell, also I admit that it may not be conclusive. With the help of the brain only, the things get decodified and a thought process or a vision appears, then that is caught by the mind and registers in itself as if it is the reality, whereas it is not a reality. For now, this is what it appears to be. Final answer may not be available at all; could be simply mind-boggling. That’s why a seeker needs to simply proceed to quieten the mind instead of getting involved into this.
Question:
What is the nature of manifest existence?
Shri Babaji:
Simply appearance, that is all.
Question:
Those appearances are always changing, coming and going.
Shri Babaji:
Yes.
Question:
So, is that also the nature of…?
Shri Babaji:
It is not permanent.
Question:
Right. So, impermanence means change?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, so that’s what we try to emphasize. If you don’t want to accept other truths, at least you all accept it is impermanent. It has only appearance value, no existence value. That means it doesn’t really exist. Instead of telling “It doesn’t exist,” because people may be put off; “When I am able to see this, how can you say it doesn’t exist?” According to them, existence means whatever appearance is there. In appearance it exists, but the existence about which I am talking in reality does not exist. It appears to be existing, but in reality it does not really exist.
Question:
Baba, what’s the nature of consciousness?
Shri Babaji:
To remain quiet. In itself.
Question:
It seems then the nature of consciousness is to remain quiet, but the nature of the mind is to express itself, to manifest itself.
Shri Babaji:
It registers and considers as if it is expressing. When it expresses, the mistake it makes is that whatever it expresses it considers that to be a fundamental reality. That’s where it gets involved further.
Question:
Later on in this chapter, You say that the absolute manifests for the sake of play. Other yogis have said that it’s simply its nature, and others have said the expansion of happiness or bliss is the purpose of creation. So, coming back to why creation comes into existence from the absolute. If it’s full and complete in itself, why does it come into existence?
Shri Babaji:
For this actually there is no conclusive answer. Only I have given “Perhaps”. Like when the mind is quiet, when you would have taken sufficient rest, sound sleep, in the morning when you get up, it is fresh and quiet; you are enjoying peace. Suddenly unknown to you, your mind imagines. In the beginning it tries to imagine pleasant things, and it wants to be pleasant, it doesn’t want to give up the happiness. But as the day passes by, it gets involved into unhappiness, happiness; both imaginations. It has the ability to be creative.
So, that ability, just if you imagine and then become quiet, that imagination disappears, so you won’t get involved. You are just imagining, and it is insignificant for you, because it was only in your imagination, not in any other way into a reality at all. But when it gets involved in that imagined thing, then that mind gets carried away. That’s how it starts thinking that the creation has come into existence, whereas actually the creation has not come into existence at all.
Question:
You know, Baba, it seems that we’re living our life in the world, but we’re actually kind of living our life in our mind.
Shri Babaji:
Exactly. It is the mind which is experiencing as if it is being born, as if it is living, as if it’s going to die, any such thing. So, whatever mind experiences, the world appears to be so. Whatever mind imagines, it experiences the same. If it imagines happiness, it experiences happiness, if it imagines unhappiness, it experiences unhappiness.
Question:
When we experience something — when we become a couple of years old and we start to have a sense of ‘I’ and we start to have memories, experiences. When we experience something, the object is actually there, but our interpretation is just an imagination about that object and experience that’s happening?
Shri Babaji:
Actually, we don’t know whether the object is there, because we are also another object. This object is seeing that object, so this object is considering that object is there. That is what is appearing, but it need not be true – just for a while. I am not talking conclusively, but it’s possible that both do not exist at all. Because the mind is considering this body is also existing, and whatever this body through the eyes is seeing, that it is also existing. When you consider firmly it is existing, then it is existing for you. Your mind refuses to accept if I tell that it doesn’t exist.
Question:
So it’s a cooperation between the brain, the physical organism, and the mind that fabricates the whole illusion?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, exactly, exactly. So, when that happens, no amount of explanation will satisfy anybody. They will say, “I can see this world. How can you say it doesn’t exist?” That’s why I don’t go into that point at all. Simply, I try to teach it is impermanent, at least.
First understand it’s impermanent. So, when you meditate, slowly one day you will realize it doesn’t exist also.
Question:
Because you can withdraw all imaginations, all thoughts, you can stop all that, and yet you still remain as the consciousness?
Shri Babaji:
Yes.
Question:
And then that illusion, the Maya is broken?
Shri Babaji:
That’s how it happens.
Question:
All right, Baba, I’ll read on. Verse 5, “What a great marvel! I’m actually pure consciousness.”
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, it’s really a hair-raising experience. Amazing. I keep talking about the Consciousness of Existence. Amongst the millions of thoughts which come and go, come and go – they may sometimes give an excitement to you; people call it as, “I had a beautiful experience in meditation” – but the day you experience that Consciousness of Existence, that is amazing. You don’t get to see it with the naked eyes, yet you are able to feel it if you close the eyes and focus your consciousness on that. That means the consciousness is focusing on itself. That’s when it is able to feel its existence.
So now we are telling the object exists, because through this physical body and the naked eyes we are able to feel the existence of that — another body — that is why we say that object exists. But how can we experience the existence of the Consciousness of Existence? Not through the naked eyes, not through sensory organs. Only when the mind becomes quiet, then that mind, which is now Pure Consciousness, it actually experiences itself. That is when it understands, “This is what is the Consciousness of Existence”, and that is really an amazing hair-raising experience. Then only it will accept, “Yes, it exists.” Until then, you don’t feel that it exists at all. Just like if we look into the space, nobody will accept a Supreme Consciousness exists in the space, as the space, because they are unable to see it. Only the mind can see, only the Self can see the Self.
Question:
Without consciousness; if you’re not conscious, there is nothing there.
Shri Babaji:
Nothing.
Question:
You can stop thinking and all the imagery, but you can’t make the consciousness go away, because that’s your Self.
Shri Babaji:
Yes, exactly, that’s what happens. But finally, when you totally merge, you are unable to experience your own existence, because there is no relative existence there. Until you have a relative existence, it is almost impossible to experience the Existence. So, in duality only you experience that you exist as the eternal entity.
Question:
Do you rise above that, Baba, in Nirvikalpa Samadhi or Sahaja Samadhi?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, you rise above that, and that ends. A further explanation is not there.
Question:
I’ll continue reading your comments on the first five verses.
“After having observed keenly in meditation and become aware of the Truth of one’s own existence as the Self, Pure Consciousness, the seeker Janaka exclaims thus, ‘In me the vast ocean, the universe moves. Things appear and disappear, forced by its own nature. I remain unaffected, just like the ocean remains unaffected by the movement of a ship in it’.”
“In my opinion, only after long practice of meditation to keep watching the mind through the mind, will the mind become quiet effortlessly and give up all its imaginations. Then one realizes and becomes aware of the fact that the Self as Pure Consciousness is infinite and that nothing can touch or affect its existence.”
Question:
Baba, what is watching the mind through the mind?
Shri Babaji:
That’s the real amazing experience, because there is no duality there yet it appears to be a dual thing experiencing another thing — whereas the same thing experiences itself. The mind and consciousness are all the same; Self is also the same — that is where the Consciousness of Existence is. When you begin, when there are no other thoughts, all thoughts have come to an end, a quietened mind, then that experiences that Consciousness of Existence. Because for a long time this consciousness, as the mind, had experienced the duality, so that warmth of duality is still there, though the duality has ended — just like the electricity has been switched off, but the bulb is still hot, warm. Like this consciousness now which has become Pure Consciousness, yet it experiences as if it is there and it is experiencing another consciousness of existence, whereas in truth there is no such duality. No such second thing experiencing the Self. That Self itself is experiencing. Just before the merger this experience happens. I hope I’m putting in proper language what I’m trying to convey.
Question:
I think as well as you can understand something like that with words.
Shri Babaji:
Yes, it’s very difficult to explain in words. That’s why I tried to do that one. It is the same One thing experiences itself, but it is feeling as if still it is a second thing, because just that duality has ended. It has become totally quietened.
Question:
Baba, is it kind of like it knows it exists, but without a thought of “I exist?”
Shri Babaji:
Yes.
Question:
So, there is a duality in the sense that there’s a knowingness going on, but there’s no second thing; it’s just knowing itself.
Shri Babaji:
So, this is not actually knowing a thing – it’s simply aware of that existence. So then it doesn’t get into any definition, any sentence at all. It simply experiences, so thus the merger starts happening.
Question:
It’s more subtle than knowing?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, something like that.
Question:
Knowing has duality involved, the knower and knowing.
Shri Babaji:
Because you won’t know what it is. There is no duality, so you cannot tell, “What is this?” Now in duality, just for a clue, we can tell that it is infinite, but it is even beyond infinite also.
Question:
Beyond all definition and imagination. So, Baba, this ‘watching the mind through the mind.’ We have our attention, and what we put our attention on we become aware of that. So, in the case of meditation, we’re trying to put our attention onto our Self or onto the consciousness. So, initially the mind is watching through the mind, that means we’re using the attention to watch itself, is that what we’re trying to accomplish here?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, that’s why from the beginning itself, no target is being given — you are just asked to watch in between the eyebrows by focusing the attention of mind and sight. The sight is there until it comes in between the eyebrows. When it comes in between eyebrows, I have tried to explain; that vanishing point on a road. That vanishing point comes, and it appears as if the road ends there, in a picture. Here also, when both eyeballs come successfully [Babaji places finger in between eyebrows], and you are able to hold on to that, then the duality of watching stops. ‘Me’ and ‘you’ both stop there. Then the mind becomes purified totally. Then it watches itself; that is what is the Consciousness of Existence.
Question:
Baba, that’s just seeing then; once you get absorbed in that point there is just seeing.
Shri Babaji:
‘Seeing’ means seeing always is imagined through the eyes only. Here the eyes don’t see any more when it comes to in between the eyebrows in the final point, when it is stabilized there, the vision stops. It reaches the vanishing point, and the vision stops. No further road is visible there. That type of thing happens. Somewhat like that. I am trying to give an example for the sake of understanding. There, no more vision is there. A vision happens only as long as both eyeballs keep moving. They give you one vision, whereas eyeballs are there, but for every object it doesn’t give you two pictures of the object. It gives you only one picture of the object.
Question:
But Baba, as you become absorbed in the bhrikuti, [space between the eyebrows] you are no longer seeing with the eyeballs, because there’s no face, there’s no head, but yet you continue to see with your mind’s eye.
Shri Babaji:
If you are able to hold on to that, stabilized, that is when you are able to do tapas. Then watching through the eyes stops, then the mind, which has become purified as a consciousness, experiences itself. Here I am turning the language. I am not using any ‘seeing’. It becomes aware of the Consciousness of Existence, but it experiences itself.
Question:
Okay, all right. Thank You, Baba.
So, You say, “After watching the mind through the mind then one realizes and becomes aware of the fact that the Self as Pure Consciousness is infinite, that nothing can touch or affect its existence, just like all the objects of the mind cannot affect the mind, which is revealed in deeper samadhi, when all thoughts and visions vanish. These thoughts and visions had arisen from the mind and subside into the mind. One becomes aware of the fact that this mind is nothing but our Self.
Once again, I reiterate that consciousness means – wherever it gets applied, it gives you an awareness of such an existence. Here when it gives up all imaginations, it is consciousness, and this consciousness gets applied to itself. When the consciousness is applied to itself, the seeker can become aware that the Self is actually beyond identities and definitions. Whatever term we try to give to define this Self shall only be an imagined term which cannot be true, it is imagined only for the sake of communicating and understanding in this world. We have to use the nearest possible imagination to give a clue for the existence of the Truth. That’s how ancient Masters called this Truth as ‘Parabrahman’, meaning it is beyond all imaginations.
Once you realize this fact, you also realize that all the universe has arisen in this Self simply by an imagination, which means it is imagined for the sake of play only and is of no use to the Self in any way. Though the universe is in the space, space is totally independent and not bound by the presence of the universe in it.”
Shri Babaji:
You see, no amount of imagination can give you that Peace [equal to] when it [the mind] is quiet — the amount of peace that you enjoy when it is quiet. There, all definitions, everything ends. As long as it is imagining, it is trying to give definition to the peace and happiness, but that never stabilized stands there. So, that’s when it goes on and on and on – elusive. But the moment it becomes quiet, it becomes totally happy, because the search ends. No more is anything else needed.
Question:
Baba, for meditation it’s so important to realize that nothing that is appearing in the mind satisfies the mind. It’s only when the mind stops that it finds peace.
Shri Babaji:
Yes, this is what I was trying to tell.
Question:
You say here, “The universe, galaxies, again more galaxies, and so on. If you remove an object, you’ll see that space is intact and remains unaffected. You realize that this space is the ultimate Truth and Pure Consciousness.” Of course, space is also a concept that exists within consciousness, but it’s an example that you’re using to explain.
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, the word ‘space’, we have to use it to give a clue. That is why the divinity is beyond space, actually. Means, if I just talk that space is God, people may misunderstand. Because for space they have a definition or criteria in their mind which flashes to them; ‘a void place’— like that it comes. Simply ‘a void place’ means for them it is just nothing — “Just nothing is God?” But nothing is also an imagination. Something also is an imagination. The divinity is beyond both.
Question:
It says “Space is the source of the consciousness of Self Existence.” “Space is the source of consciousness of Self Existence.”
Shri Babaji:
So, that’s what I tried to tell. Space is not just what we have imagined, it is the ultimate source of everything, actually. That is the raw material from which the world has come into existence, just like your mind is the raw material for all the things that are in your mind.
Question:
It says, “When you go on observing or watching the mind keenly and remain quiet, you can realize this. Slowly in due course of time thoughts and visions disappear, your attention shifts to the existence of consciousness, and you realize it is beyond any identification — that is the ultimate Truth. Every term used is as an imagination for the sake of understanding and communication in this world.”
Shri Babaji:
Only useful for this world, but not for the actual Truth.
Question:
Could the reverse be said to be true, Baba, that the Truth isn’t actually useful for this world?
Shri Babaji:
[Babaji laughs heartily]
Question:
Which world do you want? Do you want the eternal world or the temporary world? The peaceful world or the turmoil world?
[Continuing from the text.] “This truth was addressed by ancient sages as ‘Tattva‘, meaning THAT. This also means it has substantial existence value, and it is the Consciousness of Existence that we consistently experience as our own existence. You are able to become consciously aware that the universe is an imagined bubble of existence, which really has no existence value, because it’s temporary; it appeared and will disappear, it’s impermanent. But the Self, (capital S) is supreme and eternally exists. Just like all the worlds in the mind are like a magician’s show, which has no existence value, only a make-believe appearance. This universe is also a higher conscious magic show, which has no existence value.”
Baba, what does it mean, “The universe is also a higher consciousness magic show with no existence value”?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah. Just like a movie on the screen has only appearance value, no existence value. It’s not going to exist there — once the projector is stopped, the movie ends, finished, only the screen is there.
Question:
Yeah, but for someone to know that, the watcher in the audience has to wake up first to realize they are just watching a movie.
Shri Babaji:
Yes.
Question:
Thank you for helping us do that. Would you like to take a few questions, Baba?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, okay. Now we can take a few questions. I hope people will ask as a follow up on this topic, as much as possible, that which has sensible spirituality.
Question:
Okay, Baba, while everybody’s getting their questions organized, I would like to ask you a question. What’s the difference between pure awareness and pure consciousness?
Shri Babaji:
You are aware of the pure consciousness. In the English language, that’s what we have to understand. Consciousness is there, and purely you are aware because your mind does not imagine anything else about that consciousness. Thus it doesn’t define; it is simply aware.
Question:
So, which will exist after the finishing of the body and mind — pure awareness, or pure consciousness?
Shri Babaji:
Pure consciousness.
Question:
So, awareness requires mind?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, when it becomes totally quiet, who is aware of what? That ends there.
Question:
And what’s the difference between pure consciousness and consciousness of existence? Because there, it seems like there’s an awareness involved.
Shri Babaji:
Both are same. As long as consciousness is functioning as mind, there for the sake of understanding, we use the ‘consciousness of existence,’ because in the body you always have the feeling ‘I’, “I am existing, I am here”, so that is why this is used; ‘consciousness of existence.’
Question:
I understand, that’s great, Baba. Thank You.
New Questioner:
Pranams Babaji. Sometimes you’ve given the example, if a person is looking in a mirror, the image in the mirror can’t see the person. Is the person in that example consciousness, and the image in the mirror the mind?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, you can consider like that for understanding. As long as it is mind, it cannot see the consciousness — it itself is the consciousness.
Same Questioner:
Thank you, Babaji.
New Questioner:
Hello, good to see you. I have a question. I’m asking why the mind constantly tests itself — why it puts us through tribulations and trials instead of just allowing us to stay peaceful throughout life? Why do we have to constantly go through ups and downs?
Shri Babaji:
It has lost control over itself in imagining things. That is how it has allowed the mind to go mad and berserk as it likes. So it goes into happiness, unhappiness, good, bad, trouble, comfort, everything, it goes on and on and on, that is why it has happened. To stop this only we have to do sadhana, so that we stop the mind entirely. Here, when we want to get rid of it, we need to get rid of both good and bad of this world — only then will the mind become quiet. If we say, “I want to have the good of this world, I cannot sacrifice,” then it doesn’t happen. So, mind will get involved into the bad also. So, totally you have to be ready to get rid of both the good and bad of this world. Rise above the duality.
Same Questioner:
I see. I understand. Thank you. That’s very pertinent to my question. Thank you, Babaji.
New Questioner:
Pranams Babaji. In Sanskrit, there is a shloka which states “Tadeva lagnam sudinam tadeva”, which essentially translates as “That alone is the best time, that alone is the best day, where the mind thinks of the feet of Lord Vishnu”. So, in reality, there’s no such specific auspicious or inauspicious time, and what we have to develop is to come above and beyond the levels of duality, because the Lord of the universe has not created a good time or an auspicious time. Is that the essence?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, exactly, very true. Because if the mind has an inclination, if it is to lose the confidence, then it wants an auspicious time. Otherwise, every moment is auspicious, every moment that you can remember the divine, every moment that you act upon. Also human beings, we are afraid of failures; every time we step, we want a total success. That’s when we try to look for an auspicious time, so that we don’t have a failure. Otherwise, both are equally same for us. There is no auspicious or inauspicious, any such thing.
New Questioner:
Baba, there was a question in the chat. It is, why would one come back to the body after the merger has happened?
Shri Babaji:
If there is an ordainment from Divinity that such a person would come back as a yogi and try to create more awareness amongst the people who have forgotten themselves. Other than that, there is no other reason.
Same Questioner:
Well, I have a question as a follow-up to something that You said. I heard You say that just before the merger there’s a warmth of duality that is experienced before you merge. Like the bulb, You were saying, the heat of the bulb. I just wanted clarification of that. Is that when you actually experience the one single Self? Did You experience Swamiji as the one Self? Can You just elaborate on that a little bit?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, definitely. That’s when you still experience yourself as that one single Self, and as that all-pervadedness. After that, when the final merger happens, there is no other experience, because no relative existence is there, and only one single Self is there, so then it has nothing to experience.
Same Questioner:
Part of my inspiration in sadhana is to really understand that one single Self exists. There’s still an attachment there, I know, it’s driven by a personal thing of wanting to know my parents or people I love as that one single Self. That’s driven by personality and attachment, but is there a possibility in sadhana to experience that more before that merger — to just really have an understanding of one consciousness, one manifestation?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, if you keenly observe and want to know, this thought enables you to actually observe just before the merger.
Every time before going to samadhi, you have this thought as a wish; this thought enables you to experience that truth.
Same Questioner:
But will that thought bind me and keep me from going into the merger?
Shri Babaji:
No, because you would have gotten rid of all other thoughts, so there is nothing to bind you. So, this is just an observation; you want to see that single Self. So then the single Self sucks you into itself.
New Questioner:
What does it mean, ‘the feet’ of Lord Vishnu? I mean, you don’t see Lord Vishnu as a body, so what is that concept?
Shri Babaji:
Symbolically even if the feet are used, you see, the actual philosophy is totally different. Vishnu is the one single Self that exists, and there is no duality of things like auspicious or inauspicious. The priests have adopted that for them to chant. If you adopt Vishnu as divinity, that is the real auspicious thing. If you remember that Vishnu, that is the real auspicious thing. So that’s what they try to interpret into the mantra. That is symbolically said, that is all. There is no physical body.
New Questioner:
Pranams Babaji. One thing that I still find very interesting and hard to understand fully is this concept of the external world and the internal mind. I know, for example, Ramana Maharshi talks about how when you get up in the morning the world sits firmly in the mind. It’s interesting because it’s like the world is there whether you like it or not and then the mind runs as its previous habits, and you’re stuck on those same habits. Is the external world and what’s happening also part of the mind — the same mind that is the inner mind, but a higher potency that is withdrawn?
Shri Babaji:
The external world is there as long as the internal mind imagines about the external world. Once that imagination ends, external world also ends. So, there is nothing to worry for you.
New Questioner:
My question is related to the question prior to the previous gentleman. In olden times, to concentrate our mind on the Parabrahman, they gave us the concept of Maha Vishnu. So, Maha Vishnu, Bhagavan Shiva, Pawan Brahma, they don’t exist, only Parabrahman exists. And to concentrate our mind on different concepts of the Parabrahman, we internalize, or we manifest these entities into these forms. So there are no Vaikunta, there is no Goloka, there is no Shivapuri and so on, which have been told from our childhood days. There is only divinity, only one divinity, there is nothing else. Only the name.
Shri Babaji:
Yes.
Same Questioner:
In that case, Maharaj, there is no God, but then everything is God?
Shri Babaji:
Yes.
Same Questioner:
My God, my God. Oh my God.
Shri Babaji:
So that’s what the truth is. You will experience in meditation.
Same Questioner:
Yes, I mean it’s a mind-boggling concept, Maharaja. I’m sorry. Please carry on. I’m sorry. I’m done. I’m done. It is a very core thing, I’m sorry.
New Questioner:
When I’m trying to concentrate between the eyebrows, so, if a thought appears, either I’m identifying with the thought, once I realize I’m identifying with the thought and try to withdraw, the thought also disappears. So, there is no watching of the thought. So, what do you mean watch the thoughts? Either thought is not there, or I am not watching it.
Shri Babaji:
No, when you watch it means you do not analyze. Because mind has a tendency to analyze whatever it comes across. When a thought appears, the mind tries to analyze that thought — do not analyze that thought. Now I am on the screen and this is the hand [Babaji raises a hand]. I will ask you to just watch. You just watch. Don’t think whether it is a hand or whose hand, like that; that is what watching means. So, then the mind becomes quiet. When it doesn’t make analyzations and judgments then it becomes quiet; then the hand also disappears.
Same Questioner:
And then the new thought will come, will replace it. It keeps on coming; the chain will keep on happening.
Shri Babaji:
For some time. But if you imagine, then it will keep on coming. Don’t imagine that it will keep on coming. It can stop. The more you stop, it will also stop. If it comes, don’t worry, again you do the same trick. You just remain quiet. Garbage is being thrown out. Like that, since time immemorial the mind has acquired this habit. That’s why for some time this role will go on and on. Don’t lose heart. Keep on trying, keep on trying. It will all go away one day. Have that faith.
New Questioner:
Baba, when you say just watch the thought, You used to say this years ago, You don’t say it as much anymore, You mean just continue watching, don’t imagine anything. You don’t try to actually watch the thought that you’re having, you just continue to watch without imagining.
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, you continue to watch means continue to remain quiet, actually, that’s the meaning. If you just watch, continue watching, thoughts disappear, thoughts appear, thoughts disappear – you continue to watch. Then what happens? You continue to keep quiet because you are not recognizing the thought, you are not analyzing the thought, you are not making any judgment.
New Questioner:
I have two more questions.
Shri Babaji:
I’ll take the last two questions.
Same Questioner:
There’s someone, she doesn’t speak English well, so she wanted me to ask you this. She said “My video was off during the initiation,” meaning she was watching your video, but her video was off. “Have I received Baba’s initiation?”
Shri Babaji:
Yes. If you have heard me giving the instructions, you have received it. Have the faith and devotion. Practice.
Same Questioner:
The last question, Baba, I don’t know what samyama is.
Shri Babaji:
Samyama. That is patience.
Same Questioner:
Okay, so he said, to realize before we enter into samadhi, just before merging, is there any samyama that is helpful for Moksha, or is patience all that is needed?
Shri Babaji:
Hope the word is samyama.
Same Questioner:
Samyama.
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, that means patience.
Same Questioner:
Okay, so is patience some kind of intention? If you have patience, is it some kind of intention to realize before we enter into samadhi just before the merger? Is there any samyama that is helpful for Moksha?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, definitely, you will be able to hold on to that when you have patience, you won’t give up. So then the final merger happens. Until then, you hold on.
One moment. Amba has a comment on this.
Ma Ambaji:
Samyama, which is called Dharana — Dharana and Samyama are the same thing. In Patanjali [Yoga Sutras], it says Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi. Recently Sadhguru Jagadish Vasudev has used the name Samyama, the same thing which we call as Dharana, so it’s the same thing.
Shri Babaji:
Many in Northern India pronounce sanyama, some pronounce as samyama, but the meaning is patience. When you have patience, you are able to hold on — that is samyama and dharana. Dharana is to hold on. You are able to hold on to that. So, that’s what I am explaining. When you have patience, you are able to hold on to that. When I have patience, I am able to hold on to your question.
New Questioner:
Babaji, there’s one more question in the chat. Can we take that?
Shri Babaji:
Okay, we’ll take this last.
Same Questioner:
A comment on that. I think the question was, if you have an intention, a mental intention in your mind while you’re performing or prior to performing samyama, will it help manifest that intention?
Shri Babaji:
If you have the sanyama, and you want something to manifest, then in your imagination only that will manifest.
Same Questioner:
So, the question in the chat: is dhyana, meditation, the ending of experience?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, it ends all experiences, thus taking you to your real Self.
Same Questioner:
Okay. Thank you, Baba, for being with us, and everyone else too.
Shri Babaji:
So, I will go to the gallery to say bye-bye to everybody.
End of Session
