Recorded on 23 June 2024 with US participants

Discussions with Shiva Rudra Balayogi on spiritual growth, consciousness, and the true nature of the Self. Baba emphasized the importance of meditation and self-awareness. He delves into the idea that the Self is the source of creation and true freedom lies in recognizing this reality. Insights on the path to Self-realization and spiritual growth, highlighting the significance of listening and absorbing teachings into the mind. Also discussed is the role of meditation in quieting the mind and focusing on the Self.

0:00 Intro
0:09 What is meditation and how it helps achieve the goals of spirituality and of life?
3:29 Meditation is to bring the attention onto the your Self.
4:56 The distinction between mind and what appears in the mind.
8:17 Meditation quiets the mind and reveals the Conscious Existence as our Self.
9:36 You are not a body, a thought, an idea, or an ego.
10:05 Distinction between Consciousness and Existence.
12:19 How important is discernment? Can it bring detachment?
14:05 Consciousness is what gives value to the body.
15:53 Illusion continues until Truth is discovered?
17:03 Is it true a Jnani (Knower of Truth) has no limitations, no boundaries, no definitions.
20:05 Does the universe exist outside of me?
21:45 Hearing Wisdom about the Self is life transforming. It make me go for what’s permanent.
23:54 Shravana (listening), Mañana (absorbing into the mind), Nididhyasana (practice) (the 3 pillars of Vedantic Practice).
24:56 During meditation should we take the attitude that anything we see, recognize, visualize or imagine, is not real?
26:16 I realize I have been writing my life script but I don’t know how it ends, and it frightens me. What should I do?
26:58 There is Consciousness and Energy but where is the Light?
27:36 Supreme Peace is beyond light and bliss.
30:57 I feel pain when concentrating between my eyes.
32:16 Importance of dedication, discipline and patience.
33:04 Is the experience of becoming one with the Ocean of Pure Consciousness the same for everyone?
34:55 A Self Realized person feels silence as ones Self, not the minds thoughts.
35:26 Age is a factor with meditation but attachment can be a barrier.
37:14 Mind has to stop writing the script, then you are there. Trust is necessary.
37:58 Story of Angulimala and Buddha. Importance of ripeness in taking up the spiritual path (right purpose).
41:11 It’s not necessary for a person to undergo bad and harsh things. Inner purification can take care of that.
42:10 Once the thought of death comes, a person may become restless until they know the secret of birth and death.
43:13 During meditation my breath is constant but I feel sleepy.
44:55 Can we have the feeling of joy or bliss we get while meditating by imagining the Guru or God?
45:40 Does your Guru come to you? Everything is guru for me now.
46:10 The role faith and freewill play in Spirituality.
47:47 I have lost my motivation to meditate. How do I find it again?
48:31 It is the guru who will tell you about the final goal you need to reach.
50:41 You must be careful to overcome imaginations, then the truth will be revealed.

Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.183
Meditation, Consciousness of Existence & Self Realization
You tube Link: https://youtu.be/_Tx5Zzbe3Hs   
Recorded: 23 June 2024

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Baba, so meditation ultimately is just a procedure to stop thinking and bring our attention onto the Self rather than on the non-Self; it’s currently involved in everything the mind is projecting and not paying attention to itself.  Could You comment on what meditation is and how it helps achieve the goals of spirituality, or of life? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, definitely.  If people remember who would have listened to my talks in the earlier years, in the beginning when I said about meditation’s basic meaning is, ‘your attention to.’  So, here, you need to pay attention to yourself.  Attention is not through a thought which is an imagination, but through an observation which can give you the awareness of yourself.  That is what the meditation means.  You meditate upon yourself.  So, pay attention to be attentive to.  So, here, since time immemorial, I would say that you have forgotten about your real Self.  You are so preoccupied with your own imaginations that are in the form of thoughts and visions in your mind, that you don’t even remember that all the things that are in the mind are your own imaginations, either previously done or presently you are into that, or you have a future’s anxiousness or some imagination.  So, all this combined gives you a lot of stress, unhappiness. 

So, this is a significant point, why do you need to meditate? – The next question that will be coming.  That means why do you meditate? Why you need to become aware of yourself?  So, that can give you the Supreme Peace, enjoyment, happiness at all times, helping you to overcome all stress and unwanted thoughts.  So, that is the basic idea of meditation.  So, first step is that you need to silence your mind.  That’s what I keep talking; quietening your mind.  For that, the technique is given that you just watch in between eyebrows.  But no target is told; what is it that you are supposed to watch is not told.  Just go on watching the front portion, whether darkness is there, whether thoughts are there, whether visions come or no vision.  But mentally you just don’t try to think “Why is this, why not that?  What is it that has to happen?”  All these things do not bother.  Just keep watching.  So, that is the basic idea of meditation.

Question:   So, in summary then, the meditation is to bring the attention on to yourself rather than on to all the imagined things that are in the mind.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, further a few more points to tell, your mind is made up of consciousness and energy.  Consciousness means wherever you apply your consciousness or your mind, you become aware of that thing.  Now, my simple example always has been, when I am talking, if you apply your mind, if you watch me, then you can become aware of what I am trying to convey.  Otherwise, your mind could be going, running away somewhere else, paying attention to something else.  So, just now your mind is too preoccupied paying attention to its own imaginations that are in the form of thoughts and visions; that you need to get rid of.  That’s why you need to just watch.  When you are watching, you are not thinking.  Then slowly, all the thoughts and visions will disappear, will dissolve, will evaporate.  So, that is when automatically your mind’s attention turns to itself.  Means your attention turns to yourself. 

Question:   So, Baba, You’ve said “You and the mind are not different.”  If You can elaborate on that, because most of us, the distinction between mind and what appears in the mind, a lot of us think, “My mind is whatever I am thinking, whatever ideas or imaginations are in my mind,” but I think what You are saying is, that is not the mind.  Those are the projections that the mind is creating; the mind is not thoughts or imaginations. 

Babaji Maharaj:   So, some of the points, I will tell; pay attention.  Thoughts are in the mind.  Mind itself is not a thought.  Simply, you have not seen the mind as it is through your naked eyes, and that’s why you don’t know its location, its color, its shape or anything.  Simply, with the thoughts and visions you recognize that you have these thoughts in your mind – Your mind wants to do this, “I want to do this;” like this you keep on talking whenever you talk.  So now, you see, if it is a physical body, you can show some part of the body, “This is my hand and these are my legs, this is my face, these are my eyes.”  But whereas the mind is infinite; it is beyond form and formlessness.  It has no form at all. 

So, as you, yourself have not seen in the naked eyes, how can you show “This is my mind”?  But one clue is that, there, you feel in the mind about yourself also.  That is coming from the mind, the source of the feeling of yourself is in your mind only.  That means that mind itself is you, yourself.  But just now you are not aware because of your preoccupation with your own imagination.  I have always told that amongst millions of thoughts that you might have in your mind, one thing is the consciousness of your own existence, which is not a thought.  It is the reality.  If it was a thought, we could have told “It is simply an imagination of yourself that you exist.  You really don’t exist.”  But truth is not like that.  You do exist and you feel that always; you have this consciousness of existence.  That is what is beyond thoughts.  That means that mind is nothing but you.  That is what I keep telling.  Eventually you will realize when you practice meditation, when thoughts and visions disappear, when your mind becomes quiet, that means you will realize it was you who was imagining and now you who have become quiet.  Now, you who is in peace and you who has the enjoyment, who has the happiness. 

Question:   So, Baba, with meditation you can stop, quiet the mind and then when the mind becomes quiet it becomes conscious of its own existence?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, exactly. That’s what you will thoroughly experience, this thing.  When you are able to make all thoughts and visions disappear from your mind just by watching, whereas you cannot make yourself disappear.  You will always feel that consciousness of existence even in deeper samadhi also.  When you are able to stop all your thoughts and visions, then you will see that consciousness of existence is always there.  It does not disappear.  So, that’s why we insist, your brain needs to be alert and it must not go to sleep.  If it goes to sleep, then you also become unconscious of surroundings and your own existence.  If the brain is alert, then you will be conscious of your own existence.  So, that is the clue that you are nothing but the mind and the mind is nothing but you.  You as the soul. 

Question:   So, that’s when you realize that you are not a body or a thought or an idea, an ego?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you are not simply an idea or an ego or a thought or any such imagination.  That’s why I keep telling, you are much beyond the birth and the death of your own physical body.  You need to know yourself. 

Question:   So, Baba, there are two words there, consciousness of existence.  So, is this existence equated to the Parabrahman, to the Absolute and consciousness equated to knowing, that would translate to knowingness of the eternal existence?

Babaji Maharaj:   Eventually, yes.  In the beginning, for sake of understanding, we try to use this terminology, “You becoming conscious of yourself.”  You can become conscious of your thoughts.  But actually when you reach your real Self, even much beyond the consciousness any such thing, everything disappears.  With that, the ‘I’ also disappears.  As long as the ‘I’ is there, the ego, then you want to know about yourself, you want to become aware of yourself.  Then this consciousness is the clue.  You have to become conscious of yourself.  Means you become aware of your own existence, “O, this is how I exist.”  This much you can come to know, but you cannot explain it to anybody.  It is something like that, the old dialogue, “You will come to know about it, but you cannot make others know about it.” [Babaji laughs]  That is the Hindi saying, the old dialogue, probably in a movie somewhere.  So, it is something like that; you will know, but you cannot make others know. 

Question:   Yeah, well, it’s like you feel love for someone, you know the love, but you can try to let somebody know, but it’s not the same, the words and explanation.

Babaji Maharaj:   Exactly.  Such is the wonder. 

Question:   Baba, how important is discernment, developing discernment?  It seems to happen automatically as your practice advances.  That’s discernment between the real and unreal, what’s lasting, what’s impermanent.  Is this something we should try to cultivate? Because it seems to bring detachment from a lot of things that will carry your mind away.

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, just like when you are watching a movie, as long as your consciousness considers that movie should be a reality, a solid, then you are attached to that movie so much.  All the happening of good, bad, happiness, unhappiness would appear as if it is happening to you.  Because you are attached to that one now; you consider that as a reality.  The moment you realize that it is not real, it’s only a movie, then your attachment also disappears.  So, with that, your happiness, unhappiness also, you rise about that level. 

Question:   Yeah, I know Baba, it’s getting older.  I like getting older.  It’s like those movies have come to an end, those ideas have all kind of burst.  And it makes you really focus on what that is that’s permanent, the consciousness of existence.  It helps create some detachment.  Baba, would You comment on the fact that without consciousness, the body is of no value, it’s discarded.  So really, it demonstrates that it’s consciousness which gives value to the body. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you see, you as the consciousness is conscious of your surroundings, your body and this world through this body with the help of the brain.  So, once you lose that consciousness, means that is withdrawn due to either the death of the brain, or in meditation if you withdraw yourself from the clutches of the brain and go into samadhi, then the body is alive, but you are totally unaware of the surroundings and the body.  And if the brain dies also, others, like medical doctors, medically they will declare, “The man has passed away, person is no more.  He is dead.”  But the consciousness becomes unconscious for a while until it assumes next body, next incarnation.  So, this is what is a simple clue of the death that happens.  Consciousness is important; that is what is recognized as the prana, as the life current, in different terminologies, in so many ways.  So, people have misconceptions, myths also.  So, this is the real life current. 

Question:   So, the illusion continues until you discover the truth? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, now you have to discover about yourself as that consciousness and not as the body, not as anything else, not as the wisdom also.  See, wisdom is important to this world.  Simply to remain in yourself, only until then you require wisdom that you need to return to yourself.  Once you return, then you discard the wisdom also, is not necessary.  Just like the ladder is no more necessary once you are on the terrace. 

Question:   Baba, is the consciousness which makes perception possible considered the Aatman?  And that which is aware of the consciousness considered the Brahman?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, all different terminologies in different ways have been told by different teachers.  It is all the same, in fact. 

Question:   It is said that a jnani has no design, because He is not an individual.  There is no design, there are no limitations, no boundaries, no definitions because jnani is really not an individual.  Could You address that idea?  Is it true?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  As long as the ‘I’ is there, a need for ‘I’ arises.  Then we go on looking for everything, “I need this.  I need that.  I need this one.”  Whatever the body needs, we go on imagining that we need that, “We need that, I need, I need.”  Like that, you go on.  Once that disappears, that ‘I’ is no more there, it is simply a contentment and an existence consciousness awareness and no ‘I’ is there totally.  So, finally, it is neither there, nor not there.  It is like it is there and it is not there.  So, one important… it may appear very funny or strange; if there is nothing, there is no problem.  Because there is a gold, a problem arises for you, if somebody should not rob you.  If you don’t have anything, who can rob you of anything?  

Question:   Yeah.  So as long as we attach our happiness and security to something impermanent, then I guess we will always feel insecure. 

Question:   Yeah, if ‘I’ am there, this world is mine; I don’t want anybody to trouble this world.  If ‘I’ is not there, everything loses its meaning, finally. 

Question:   But what You are saying is a Self-realized person can live in that state of freedom while living in the world and having the body?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  You see, as long as this body needs to be with you all, things are needed.  So, we need to take care.  Otherwise, for me, nothing is there. 

Question:   What do You mean nothing is there?  

Babaji Maharaj:   [Babaji laughs] Ambaji says that you are right, Agastya. 

Question:   I am waiting for the answer, Baba.  I guess You are giving it to me right now. 

Question:   Baba, before the Zoom calls, we always talk about question and answers.  This was one that was discussed.  Does the universe, the world, the manifest world exist outside of me, outside of my ‘I’?  Is there an existence of the world beyond me when I am the one spinning it, so to speak?  I am the one creating the world.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Actually, this universe you get to see outside your body is inside you only.  Because currently, if you have imagined yourself as a small ‘I’ called mind, then this universe appears to be outside you.  But if you remember and you reconnect yourself to that highest consciousness – at one time you were there before you came out of that – so, this universe is within you.  Just like everything that is in your mind is within you only, when you imagine.  So, the mind’s potency is very little.  That’s why a small, short time dream appears within your mind with the imagination.  And this universe is a longer dream for the mind with the identity of ‘I’.  But for the higher consciousness of yours, it is equally like a dream.  It exists inside you. 

Question:   On a different note, at the end of the aarathi, you do the proclaim Jai Sri Sri…  And it always touches me so deeply because there is so much mastery and command and reverence and gratitude.  You are coming from such a place that it always just touches me deeply.  And so today when You started us in meditation and You said to quiet the mind, silence, and you are the mind, there’s no difference, something in meditation that You said, it just helped me to be more, ‘do it or die.’  Like, I have the power from the Self to silence the mind, to be focused, to just watch and don’t be wishy-washy.  And it just, I don’t know, there was something about that that inspired me to be more of who I am and be really determined and that there’s that power there. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, I was talking, first I told the example of Buddha that when He was walking in the forest, the robber came and asked Buddha to stop.  Buddha said, “I stopped for long ago.  When are you going to stop?”  Same thing I said, “I have become silent.  I am inviting you all to become silent here so that you also can enjoy that Self, that Supreme Peace. 

Same Questioner:   Yeah, well thank You Baba, because hearing this truth and about knowing the Self has been transforming my life to make me want to go for what’s permanent.  And so, these Zoom meetings and this constantly going over, over the truth, the highest pitch of truth, I’m very grateful, and I know everyone on the call is too. 

Question:   Baba is what we’re doing called shravana? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, listening, listening is shravana.  It means when the Guru teaches, that is known as Upadesha, the teaching, Master’s teaching.  Upadesha.  Then you need to listen to that with apt attention; that is shravana.  Then manana; manana means you absorb it into the inner layers of your mind, adopt it into your mind. Means just by listening; like we tell, listening from one ear and giving up from another ear, it should not be like that.  When you listen, it should go to your head, like that.  That is manana.  Nididhyasa is, then practice, adopting such methods recommended by the Master, then you achieve the truth. 

Question:   Okay, I have a knowledge question and then a practical thing as the second part, but first the knowledge question.  If during Jangama dhyana, while we’re watching, if we understand that anything that we see or recognize, visualize or imagine is not real, should we just take the attitude “Don’t bother.  I want the truth only.”  Just anything; any image, any vision, any color, any imagination, if we understand and recognize “This is not the truth, give me the truth only,” will that attitude help to eliminate this constant stream?

Babaji Maharaj:   Definitely.  You think and just become quiet.  You think like this and become quiet.  It will be helpful, definitely. 

Same Questioner:   So, the truth is we have to just take the position “Don’t bother with anything that I recognize by watching, because it doesn’t have any reality value in truth.” 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you are assuring yourself not to get attracted to anything which really does not exist at all. 

Question:   I have two questions.  The first is, I did a lot of acting and I always knew the ending of the script.  And now I’m changing my script constantly.  I don’t know if it’s destiny or karma, but the problem is I’m so scared because I don’t know the end of the script.  So, what do I do?

Babaji Maharaj:   It is you who is writing the script.  So, it is you who can end the script.  You don’t have to know the end at all.  You simply end the script and know yourself.  That is what is needed.  Then the script ends. 

Same Questioner:   Okay.  And the other question is, there’s consciousness and energy,  but where is the light?    

Babaji Maharaj:   It is like the radiance without light.  Radiance is there, but the light is not visible because it is infinite.  Both consciousness and energy are beyond any visible light. 

Same Questioner:   So, it’s invisible light?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.

Question:   Baba, can I ask something related to that?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, yes. 

Same Questioner:   The experience is that, as you start transcending the world, the universe starts dissolving, you can start to be filled, feel like you’re immaterial, but you are the light.  And there’s still the ‘I’ there and ‘I am the light.’  That’s an experience that you can have.  And that light is blissful.  And I You’ve said in the past, and that was profound to me, “Supreme Peace is beyond the light and the bliss.”  So, that’s still within the realm of a kind of individual experience.  That is an experience, so you’re not there yet.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, exactly.  You see, a light is mentioned symbolically by many teachers to talk about the radiance, you know?  That is infinite.  But people want to recognize it, a light that is visible, like an electric light.  There is energy.  But the electric light is visible, energy is not visible there.  Only through the things that energy operates, we recognize “This is because of such and such energy.”  So, like that, this also, energy is there, consciousness is there.  The clue is that when you become aware of yourself, when you stop thinking, then you become aware that there is a consciousness.  You become aware, but you don’t see it through naked eyes.  Everything we expect to see  through naked eyes – there are so many hundreds of things which we cannot see through naked eyes.  We need to have a better telescope, better this, better that, something, instrument.  But here, the instrument is you, yourself, has to become aware of yourself. 

Question:   Baba, that feeling that you are the light, that you are omnipresent and that you are the light, it seems to be as if the consciousness and energy is manifesting as light, as omnipresent light. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, then the imagination comes that some light should be visible, just like the sun.  Like in Gayatri Mantra also, ‘tat savitur varenyam’.  Means, that truth is equivalent to the light, or the power of the sun.  So, sun emanates light that is visible to our naked eyes.  Daylight happens; all these things we get to see.  So, that has been used as a symbolic example.  That is also radiant like this, not simply an inert with nothing. 

Question:   I have a very practical question and I know You recommend sitting in meditation for an hour with the concentration between the eyebrows.  Now, when I do that, my eyes turn up slightly and I start feeling pain in that movement of the eyes.  So, am I doing something wrong? Because that’s why I can’t really sit that long in that position. 

Babaji Maharaj:   A couple of things you need to understand – you need to have enormous patience, because mind is very slippery and infinite.  You cannot simply tie with a rope.  So, sometimes when you are likely to be rushed and you want to force your eyes to come here.  So, it easily doesn’t come into one direction; eyeballs move parallelly.  So, slowly and steadily if you watch the front portion, even if you’re unable to come into the center of the eyebrows, it’s okay.  In due course of time, slowly, slowly it will come.  So, if you do that one slowly, skillfully, with all the patience, then there would not be any such pain.  And you will enjoy the play, or your own efforts. 

Same Questioner:   So, it’s just a matter of consistent practice and patience and trusting in the process?

Babaji Maharaj:   Right from day one of my teaching, I have always emphasized three mantras – dedication, discipline and patience.  Dedication means you set a priority and sit every day without fail; you understand the need of it.  Then if you are disciplined, every day you will sit at the same time, then you will be drawn to it.  A pull will be there, and you need to have patience because mind has gone out of control since time immemorial.  So that’s why it will take some time.  So have patience, it will come. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You Guruji.  Thank You. 

Question:   Good morning, Babaji.  Thank You so much.  I have lived what I consider a fairly rich life, not so much financially, but just so many different kinds of experiences that brought me closer to spirituality and just appreciation of joy and bliss and ecstasy and all that sort of stuff.  What I’m wondering is, that if someone has had a very simple life, not much going on, nothing to brag about or whatever, and they become Self-realized and one with the Ocean, their drop, the drop that they are enters the ocean, and then you compare that to maybe someone who’s had this life with all these experiences and they become Self-realized and the drop that they are becomes one with the Ocean, is that experience of the Ocean different for those two people? Or once one’s drop becomes part of the ocean, is it the same experience, no matter what?

Babaji Maharaj:   It is the same, because the Truth is one, no matter whatever.  So, there are different parts.  One would have taken this path, another would have taken another path.  Simply on the way, different experiences might be there, depending on their own minds’ imaginations and acquired habits and tendencies, but once they reach the Truth, the Truth is the same and one.  That experience is the same for everyone. 

Same Questioner:   Okay, Thank You. 

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.  It seems that Babaji’s mind is like some infinity to infinity.  Babaji doesn’t feel the mind as itself, You feel like from infinity to infinity.  Is that so?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, it is infinite, it is the quietness, the Self; I feel the Self, not in thoughts.  Just I am silent. 

Same Questioner:   And my second question, like in 2000, there was a very big earthquake and I was meditating that time.  So, everyone in Delhi got out of the house, but I kept on meditating.  It was very high.  But now when I meditate and somebody came in the house, and it was my husband, but I felt it was a thief and I had to open my eyes.  Like I was meditating and somebody came in the house and I thought it was a thief but it was my husband.  So, is it a difference after 24 years like I am meditating?  So ,age is a barrier?  What is the barrier?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, age is one factor that mentally you become weak and otherwise also your attachment makes.  When the earthquake came, you did not bother.  When the husband came, you bothered.  That is the difference.  When your husband comes also, if you just don’t bother, you don’t have to open the eyes.  If you don’t bother what is happening, then you don’t have to open the eyes.  It all depends to which you are attached to, depending on that only you bother. 

Same Questioner:   Yes, Babaji.  But I thought it was a thief who had come to the house. 

Babaji Maharaj:   See, that is imagination.  See you are worried about your house, that a thief should not come, an earthquake is all right.  So, that is why you got disturbed.  So, if you think, “Let the thief come and take away anything,” or you at least bolt the house, lock your house, securely sit inside and meditate.  That is simple. 

Question:   Baba, I can no longer write the script for my life.  So now do I have to depend totally on trust?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you see, you have to watch your mind.  The script is written by your mind.  That needs to be stopped.  If you simply say that “I cannot write any script,” that doesn’t mean that your mind will not write any script.  It would be writing.  You have to be watchful.  That’s what is meditation.  Mind has to stop writing the script.  Then you are there.  Trust that you will stop writing scripts. 

Question:   Baba, the story that You began with, Angulimala.  That’s a very fascinating story.  I have been fascinated by that story for many years, because here you have essentially a serial killer who is qualified to receive the Buddha and who took initiation from the Buddha and transformed his life.  But if you read in the teachings, there is so much moral development, following of Yamas and Niyamas that is meant to happen.  You can read very terse descriptions of how a student has to be in order that they can meet the teacher and receive them.  So, I guess a lot of that is just conceptual.  It’s just concepts and ideas and the teacher will reach out to whoever the teacher wants to reach out to, the moral aspect of it is not as hard and fast as it might seem?

Babaji Maharaj:   Important is that it matters the ripeness of the student, of the person.  Like Ramakrishna Paramahansa used to tell, if the wood is totally dry, you just need a spark of fire so that it catches the fire.  If the wood is wet, no matter you bring out some big fire, big fire, it won’t catch it properly.  This is what we have to understand by reading Angulimala’s story.  Perhaps he was ripe somewhere that one sentence struck him – “What is this He is talking.  He says He stopped long ago and I have not yet stopped.”  He was intrigued so he came, surrendered.  He spoke to Buddha, then Buddha explained about the mind.  And he was impressed, “This is something new.  I never heard of it.  I’ve been only killing for my food.”  All such impermanence, everything Buddha spoke, impermanence of the world, impermanence of the body; he got transformed in no time like that.  He was ripe.  So, this thing happens rarely, rarely to some people when they are ready.  It might be extremism; they might be on one side extreme, suddenly they can come down this side.  That means, another thing in my observation, they might be very ripe and extremely sharp in the mind.  Simply they were using it for a wrong purpose.  Once they realized the right purpose, they could achieve that thing, same, beautifully. 

Same Questioner:   So, their going over to that right purpose, their understanding, their unfoldment in that dharma, that transmutes all of the negativity of the previous actions?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, yes, perfect understanding.  When it penetrates the inner layers of your mind, then this transformation happens. 

Same Questioner:   So, it’s not necessarily so that very bad and harsh things would have to happen to that person.  An inner purification takes care of that?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, not necessary.  You see, even for Buddha Himself, He was a prince.  He was never allowed to come out of the palace so that He should not see the miserable conditions of the world, He should live happily.  But once the moment He saw it, before that He had not experienced any miserable condition, but when He saw somebody miserable with old age, with illness and dead body, it transformed Him.  He started thinking, “Why should we die?  Why should we become old?”  And He became restless until He didn’t get the answer.  He became a Buddha. 

Same Questioner:   So, I think that the implication… Buddha was shielded from so much suffering.  But nowadays, nobody is shielded from suffering.  It’s everywhere for everyone. 

Babaji Maharaj:   This way, you’re right.  But still, if it doesn’t occur, it doesn’t occur.  You see, that’s what we tell.  Like in a cemetery, a guard will be there.  He would get to see hundreds of people coming every day, the dead bodies coming and burial happening, this, that, everything happens.  Nothing may occur in that person’s mind.  But if one person who had not seen any dead body, one day suddenly he gets to see a dead body, he might start wondering why; it might strike the mind.  One time that ‘death’ thought comes, he might become restless until he doesn’t know the secret of birth and death.  That makes difference from person to person. 

Same Questioner:   That’s very mysterious, Baba. 

Question:   My practical thinking is, while meditating, my breathing becomes constant.  But at the same time, I feel sleepy. 

Babaji Maharaj:   It is important that brain should not go to sleep.  That’s why usually we advise, when you sit for meditation, you should have taken sufficient rest on one hand.  Another thing your stomach also should be clear.  There should not be any wind formation, indigestion of food, all these things.  After you have intake of any small food, you should have given at least a couple of hours.  Then to practice meditation, try to have lighter meals.  Whenever you are hungry, if not two times, you can have four times.  But a little, a little, smaller meal at a time is recommended.  So, then you might feel better.  Still, if you feel sleepy, you can get up and wash your face and then come back and sit.  You will feel better. 

Same Questioner:   If it’s not that much sleepy, Swamiji.  But certain visions come at the same time, but I neglect them.  That is one thing.  And the second question is, don’t we have the Guru or the form we like in the mind to get the same sort of feeling?

Babaji Maharaj:   Same sort of feeling means?

Same Questioner:   The Ultimate Joy or the bliss which we get through meditation, can’t we get it by imagining the Guru?

Babaji Maharaj:   It depends on your faith and devotion.  It depends on your faith.  Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said, “Faith in the name of Lord and Guru can work wonders.”  So, if you cultivate such a faith, that can work for you and the devotional path also. 

Same Questioner:   So, one more, little out of curiosity.  Doesn’t Your Guru flash in Your mind while You meditate?

Babaji Maharaj:   Now He’s always there.  He need not have to come in that physical form.  Everything is Guru for me now.  That was when He used to teach me.

Same Questioner:   The form of joy.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, the form of joy is always there, and whatever is there is the Guru, because He is one with the Parabrahman. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You very much.  Pranaam Guruji. 

Question:   Hello, Babaji.  So a couple of questions ago when You were talking about the Buddha and the thief, etc., it brought up a question.  So, what role does free will and fate play in our coming to the Guru?  And does faith play a different role depending on where you are on the spectrum of your development toward the spiritual?

Babaji Maharaj:   Faith will give you a free will, means total self-confidence, the trust in yourself that “The Guru is here with me, within me.  The Guru is there always.”  You’ll be able to feel that.  So, that’s why faith is the first word that is taught.  My Guru Shivabalayogi used to tell, “You lose anything in the world but do not lose faith.”  So that’s how the faith and this free will are interconnected to each other.

It looks that questions have come to an end.  It was another wonderful evening with you all, lovely questions and always the question that you start with, I think it inspires many people to come with the question of that level and it’s so wonderful. 

Question:   Baba, I meditated regularly for many years.  Lately, I have lost my motivation to meditate and find it hard to make myself sit for this.  How do I find motivation again, how can I get inspired to meditate?

Babaji Maharaj:   Remember Swami Vivekananda said, “Arise and awake.  Stop not till the goal is reached.”  How can you lose the motivation?  You have the confidence that you can do it.  Never give up until the last breath of life.  If you want, you can see God. 

Question:   Pranaams Baba, I have a question.  All of our thinking is small thinking because we’re the droplet.  But our society, at least in the West, is just very goal-oriented and we’re trying to have goals and new resolutions.  And for example, one of my goals was to find a teacher.  And then Swamiji immediately came into my life and then You.  So that was an example of a goal that was aligned with the Divine.  But how do we know when our other goals are… or if they’re just small thinking, or should we not have goals and just meditate? I’m really having difficulty.  Because I want to accomplish so much in this short lifetime; I’m really motivated.  But I don’t want to get in my own way. 

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, first thing, you did the right – it’s important to find the right Guru.  It is the Guru who will tell you about the final goal that you need to reach.  Like the philosophy is in Kabir Das’s poem itself, “When the Guru and God both come and stand in front of me, if that happens, to whom should I prostrate?”  Then the mind comes out of confusion and tells, “O, my Guru, let me prostrate to You, because it is You who told me about God.”  So, that is there.  That’s the final goal.  Other goals in this world, you can set any number that you feel like you want to have it.  You want to have a hundred thousand dollars, or you want to have a hundred buildings, you want to have anything.  These are all the worldly things.   But the Guru recommends the highest goal, after achieving which you don’t have to achieve anything else.  That is spiritual truth. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You, Baba.  That’s brilliant.  And secondly, I’m having a very hard time, and this might be my imagination.  I’d like You to let me know if it is.  I meditate in the morning and it’s a deep wonderful meditation.  And then I have to go right into work dealing with hundreds of people, these busy events.  And I’m finding the more I meditate, the less I want to do that.  Is that my imagination?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, one of such imaginations keep coming.  You need to be careful to overcome such imaginations.  Then the truth will be revealed. 

Same Questioner:   Okay, thank You.  Pranaams Baba. 

End of Questions and Answers

Babaji Maharaj now concludes:

   Wonderful.  Let me say bye-bye to all of you by going into gallery.

End of Session