Recorded on 7 March 2026 with worldwide participants
0:00 Intro
0:35 What are the different paths of spirituality?
7:59 What is the right path for a rational, scientific temperament?
12:00 In Yoga Vasistha, through explanations only, Rama is able to achieve Self Realization. Is that a valid path for this Kali Yuga?
15:08 What kind of mindset is needed for one to be successful in Dhyana marga (path of meditation)?
23:59 How does the path of self-enquiry, as recommended by Ramana Maharshi, compare to Jangama Dhyana?
26:20 Some saints recommend the path of Nama Japa, repetition of a chant. Is this a valid path and how does it relate to Jangama Dhyana?
31:13 Some teachers advocate pranayama techniques, controlling of the breath. Is this a valid path for Self-Realization?
36:11 Institutions established by Shankaracharya recommend the traditional Vedic path; learning the vedas, following the various ritual etc. Is this a valid path in this current age?
41:18 Is the path of tantra a valid path for Self-Realization?
44:37 Can one follow multiple paths simultaneously?
46:21 How do I know what is the best and quickest path for me for Self-Realization?
50:42 Has ‘yearning’ for the truth of existence more depth to it than intelligence or rational thinking?
52:08 Is wisdom through the path of enquiry through intelligence?
54:23 In meditation is our attention on the attention?
56:08 Where to focus in meditation
57:06 If we make our body absolutely still, our mind becomes still. How to avoid our attention being divided between attention on the point in-between our eyebrows and on our body being still?
58:22 Do we need to put some effort in to keep the body still?
59:01 How to eliminate pain in the body so that we can keep our attention in-between the eyebrows?
Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.263
Paths of Spirituality
YouTube Link: https://youtu.be/waEmx-KAFBo
Recorded: 07 March 2026
Start of Questions and Answers
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Question: Namaskar Babaji. Thank You for another opportunity to ask questions. Today, the topic is “Paths of Spirituality.” Last session when we discussed Babaji had provided guidance on the purpose of life for a person. And if the person has determined that the purpose of life is spirituality, then the person decides, “Okay, what path to choose.” So, what are the different paths available for such a person to choose?
Babaji Maharaj: Depending on the temperament or inclination, a person can choose like the dhyana marga, bhakti marga, karma yoga, like that, different things. If a person is emotional, naturally can fall in love with the Ultimate Truth, Divinity in a form. So, that is bhakti marga. See, in bhakti marga, though entire universe, all appearance, everything is nothing but Divine, but yet, for a person, for a human being who lives in this world, he will have to behave differently with different things. Always, it will be difficult to recognize or remember God in everything. Though we can talk, “Try to see God in everything, as everything, everywhere,” but that’s not easy. It requires a lot of conscious elevation and practice. Like, as commonly we always speak about Ramakrishna, He used tell “Water in the kitchen and water in the bathroom differs.” So, at that time, it’s difficult. We cannot behave as if we are behaving with God. We have to behave with the bathroom water as we behave with the bathroom water. To come inside, lot of devotional practice is required. How much we can remember in a day, in twenty four hours. So, finally, mental application is very important for any path. So, many paths could be there.
Dhyana marga is usually said [as that] in which you sit and close the eyes. At that time, you can chant a mantra, or you can silently meditate. Silent meditation, which in our Guru’s lineage has come. Because, my Guru Shivabalayogi was initiated into this silent technique by the appearance of a Jangama Sage who came out of a fruit; it was Lord Shiva. That is why we pass it on. This is one of the most ancient and highest methods practiced since time immemorial, that my Guru also practiced for twelve years. In this, directly you merge with the Ultimate Truth. Because in consciousness of imagination, you have come out of your origin, the Ultimate Truth. So, thus, you have become a mind or the jeevatma, whatever it is, so you have become constantly imagining all the time. So, if you can stop that imagination, then your consciousness, your mind, you as the mind will go back to the Self and settle. That is what is known as liberation, Self-realization; like that.
So, dhyana is, that means ‘you pay attention to.’ Either you pay attention, transcending an imagination directly like this – like in our technique, we don’t give any target. We don’t tell what is it that you have to watch. We will just ask you to watch in between eyebrows. Eventually, you will realize the mind is trying to watch itself, or the Atman is trying to watch itself. You, as the infinite soul, trying to watch yourself, become aware. Because mind has the consciousness and energy combination power which has the ability to become aware of the thing wherever you apply your consciousness. Like when I am talking or answering a question, if you all apply your consciousness to me, then you will be aware of what I am trying to talk, otherwise you might be sitting there, or your mind might have run somewhere else. It can imagine its own stories. Like that, that is the trick of the mind. So, thus, you practice like this. Like in dhyana, when you practice silently, when you achieve the silence of the mind one day, then the mind goes introvert and merges with itself. What I am talking might appear as easy, but the thing to do is not as easy as we say. It requires a long-time practice. Whatever it is, bhakti marga, dhyana marga, or any path that you adopt, it requires long-time practice. You must take care that physical harm must not happen. You have to take care. And naturally, you need to get detached from the brain and achieve the silence. That is important.
So, you have to undertake such a path. Because there might be so many other paths prescribed or taught by many other people also. But I would not recommend all of them. But Bhagavad Gita is one of such highest teaching Upanishads, which talks of many paths. But they all are actual spiritual paths, naturally where you practice single-pointedness of the mind, or make it totally silent and make it to go into the Self, achieving Self-realization, God-realization, or becoming one with the Divine. Even if you have to imagine, you try to imagine, like I was telling in bhakti marga, it is not easy to imagine God everywhere. So, that is why a beautiful, culturally evolved… like some places that Divine has assumed the form to bless the devotional people. So, you want to worship that form. You adopt, then you fall in love. How much you can become obsessed with that form of the Guru or God and you can remember? That is what makes difference. That is why we always tell, “Your faith and devotion is what matters.” Like that, so many paths are there, but basic idea should be to control the mind and make it single-pointed or make it totally quiet, so that it can merge with the Divine.
Question: For an emotional person, the bhakti marga is a good path, what about for a non-emotional person? Like a person who is very rational, who has a very scientific temperament, who wants logical proof for everything. For that person, which path is recommended?
Babaji Maharaj: See, dhyana marga is the best actually. Rational means a person should be intelligent to try to understand the Ultimate Truth. He should not be simply rejecting everything. Whatever suits him, he can adopt it. He can meditate where he need not have to imagine or be devotional to any form of God. He just has to watch in between eyebrows and the mind becomes totally quiet. And it becomes one with the Ultimate Truth. He will experience. That is what is necessary. He needs to have the faith that there is an Ultimate Truth. He should not be an atheist. Because atheism and theism both loses significance after a certain stage. Both these simply depend on a belief system and try to belittle the other often. That is not the thing. Both do not know what the truth is, what God is, why is it that Ultimate Truth is known as God. You can simply call it Ultimate Truth. There is an Ultimate Truth, the source of all of us; like that that person can try to ponder over. “Who am I, have I come into existence with the birth of the body? Am I going to die and finish, extinct, become extinct when this body dies?” Like that also, he can ponder and contemplate. And try to go for that one; observation.
Like initially when sages contemplated, there was neither devotion nor dhyana nor any such thing. They were not even rational. But they were wise. They pondered, they contemplated. And then they understood, “If we need to know that truth, we need to keenly observe.” So, they started wondering “When we don’t know what it is, how to observe that one?” So, then they tried to understand what is permanent and what is impermanent. So, thus, they went, “This body is impermanent. This cannot be. And the brain is also impermanent.” But the mind, when they observed keenly, “This seems to be a permanent existence. This doesn’t disappear. This consciousness of existence is always there.” So, thus, they went on observing that and merged with that one and became one where the existence and non-existence was transcended by them. Then they understood That as the Truth of the existence.
So, like that they realized the Self. Like a rational person also, if he can apply the wisdom, he needs to go for the root cause. He must not stop until he doesn’t find. He should not simply get satisfied with a nearby cause or an immediate cause, closest, not like that one. See very often in science, a nearby cause is explained or the immediate cause is explained and there that stops. After that nobody bothers of what happens, what is the final truth. So, one must go. If any person makes a determined effort and decision that “I must find the root cause. What is the Ultimate Truth?” then it will be possible to find that Truth.
Question: Following on that question, Babaji, in Yoga Vasistha, the path is explained logically, step by step. Vasistha is explaining various aspects of the mind, various aspects of reality. And only through explanations, Rama is able to catch the Self-realization. Is that a valid path for this Kaliyuga? Maybe it was suitable for Rama and Rama’s abilities, but maybe not suitable for this yuga?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, you are true. To be frank, Sri Rama was such a ripe soul, just by listening… When He was listening, means with apt attention. He meditated on that, on that which the Guru was teaching. So, it absorbed and His mind became quiet. He did not think of anything else. How many can do this, who can do this? When the Guru is teaching, all of you observe your mind. Can it become quiet, totally? What the Guru is teaching, can it reverberate; just that and nothing else is known? Then one can achieve. But you are true, in this Kaliyuga it is not easy. People listen to talks, lectures of gurus and so on and on. But nothing stays in their mind, because it doesn’t penetrate the inner layers of the mind, because they are unable to pay such apt attention. That apt attention, hardly anybody can pay in today’s time, what Sri Rama could apply to that one. It is a thrill, we get a thrill, hair-raising thrill. What a ripe soul! That’s why we consider Sri Rama as an incarnation of Divinity; we worship Him, no doubt in it. So that thing, if anybody it is possible what the Guru says, so that is when only one can achieve.
At least, whatever our Guru said, I used to pay apt attention, I hardly had anything to ask Him. Whenever He came to Dehradun, I used to be waiting; “What is it the Guru wants to give me, tell me of His philosophy?” So waited, always waited. When any beautiful word, diamond type of thing would come out of His mouth, we don’t know – we waited for that. Suddenly, one small word, a small sentence would come out. So, that still rings in our ears. So based on that only I give my talks all, all these things. So that type of attention only can be helpful to achieve the silence of mind and eventual Self-realization.
Question: Thank You Babaji. Just continuing on the same idea. If an emotional person is more suitable for bhakti, if for an intelligent person, for rational paths we need some more intelligence, what is needed for the dhyana marga, for Jangama dhyana? What kind of mindset is needed, which is more suitable for a person to be successful in the dhyana marga?
Babaji Maharaj: Inquiry; a person wants to know the Truth, what is it, what is the Ultimate Truth? For such people dhyana marga is suitable. Means in the beginning itself, you don’t imagine what the Ultimate Truth or what is that Divinity, what is God – you don’t try to imagine at all. Because when you realize, that maybe totally different. Your imagination might be only a little bit, micro speck. It’s like your measurement of the space is only a micro speck. When you yourself become the space, that is all pervaded, that is amazing. That is totally different. Like that you don’t imagine anything but just go; for such people.
See, rational also, one must be able to apply proper wisdom. That is required for anybody. He should not be unnecessary half-baked beans type of argumentative. Gurus used to tell, such argumentative type of people can never realize anything. They cannot understand. They think whatever logic they have learned as the ultimate, intelligent, genius, they start thinking they have a computer brain. But they don’t understand they are only a micro speck, imaginary people. So, such things will not lead you to anything. You should have inquisitiveness; yearning that you want to know what the Ultimate Truth is. Forget about Divinity, forget about religion or spirituality, anything if you are rational. OK, at least if you have the yearning to know what the truth of our own existence or what the truth of this universe existence. At least this much of query; “Are we born with this body? Are we going to become extinct when the death happens?” This is a fundamental truth. Everybody knows. At least that much also if they can exercise, they will be humbled. They need to be humble. That is essential. Should not become arrogant or egoistic as if they know everything as the other parts are all idiotism. It is not like that. What we know may be only a micro speck. What we need to know may be all-pervaded. So much is there always.
So, learning process must not be stopped. Anybody who is ready to learn can adopt any of these methods suitable to them. That’s what it is. They have to apply wisdom; that is important. So, that is what it is. Need to apply the wisdom, “We want to know.” That’s why our Guru said “Never stop the learning process.” He used to say, “Ignorance is not a curse. Ego is the curse.” If a rational person becomes egoistic, he is only a half-baked bean. He will end up not understanding anything. He should have the humility and understand, “We don’t know, we need to know.” Like that if a person proceeds, paths are there. Because first important thing, you see, only mind is the gateway to realize the Ultimate Truth. Whether you call it Divine or simply Ultimate Truth, whatever you want to call it, it’s up to you. But mind is the gateway. Because mind is the permanent entity. It doesn’t disappear even in meditation also. You go on observing; that consciousness of existence will not disappear. All thoughts and visions can disappear, they will dissolve into the mind. But the mind itself will not disappear. That mind is that consciousness of existence that all of you have, “I exist.” That feeling is there. That is not an imaginary feeling. That is the reality. The rest of all thoughts and visions are all imaginations. It is not permanent. It has only appearance value. If you keenly watch, observe, then thoughts and visions disappear. When they disappear, they cannot be real. The one which does not disappear at all is the consciousness of existence.
When you reach that state through the practice of dhyana, say, suppose you undertake this, and you successfully get rid of all thoughts and visions, then mind becomes silent; you experience the silence. Many people at that time, they try to imagine something else. They try to imagine darkness, they try to imagine space, they try to imagine dryness, they try to imagine nothingness. Do not imagine, we tell. Continue. When you continue, then your attention will go to that consciousness of existence. Till then you continue just watching. Don’t imagine anything. When you observe that consciousness of existence, at that time also don’t imagine what it is. Just observe. Then your mind will get absorbed into that one. Then eventually you will realize the Truth. Like that one has to proceed. That is the wisdom application. Until you don’t reach. After which there is nothing else to know, there is nowhere to go. Then it stops. Because mind is the ultimate clue for us. With this body, it is limited. We can travel ten miles or one hundred thousand miles. How far we can travel? But the mind can travel. If mind stops, if it goes introvert, then it will go to its origin. It has no third way, I have told.
Whether you are rational, whether you are inclined to meditation, anything is okay. At least you need to have the yearning to know the Ultimate Truth. Rational means you don’t want to call it as God or Divine, that is all. Whatever you want to call, you just call it ‘That’; fine, no problem. God has no problem. He is not hungry that everybody should call me. He is totally content and in Mahasamadhi. So, He doesn’t need our certificate. He is not hungry that we have to call Him ‘God’, otherwise, He will go into a depression. There is no such thing. You don’t call Him ‘God’, it’s okay. You call it ‘That’. Or you don’t want to call anything also, but at least how will you observe? At least you observe this consciousness of existence. This is a truth. It is there in your mind. Amongst the millions of thoughts, this consciousness of existence is there which is not a thought, I repeatedly tell. How this can be proven? You watch and watch and watch. Try to get rid of all thoughts and visions. Stop until no imagination arises! Even your imagination must not arise to that as the consciousness of existence. But you become aware of that. Till then you continue just watching.
That is the practice of meditation and the tapas a yogi does. He learns from the Guru. The Guru gives the finer points, “This is how you have to proceed.” Because often even if some people reach the silence, they start imagining a darkness, they start imagining some color, they start imagining something else. They end up imagining. I tell, “Stop all imaginations. Don’t imagine anything about that.” So then you don’t have to call it ‘That’ also, you will realize. At least you will realize; like that also if you can go. But before going itself, don’t try to conclude that there is nothing or there is something or there is this or there is that… Don’t try to do that one. Even if you don’t want to believe in God, you are a rational person, that is also no problem.
Question: Thank you Babaji. Following on that. Many people are attracted to path recommended by Ramana Maharishi, the inquiry path. Especially the people who are rational or want to use their mind. They get attracted to this path. How does it compare to Jangama dhyana, the Dhyana path? Is it the same or are they two different paths?
Babaji Maharaj: There is actually not much difference except for a little bit of terminology. But people need to understand what Ramana actually said. I consider myself a devotee of Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi. I love Him. He is such a wonderful, greatest asset of India, one of the greatest yogis like our own Guru. Well, in Swamiji’s dhyana, we just teach “Watch”, and don’t give any target. Ramana Maharishi said, “Enquire who am I?” But people, many people, some devotees of Him have argued with me. They stop there. They forget the other aspect that He said, “When you close the eyes, observe from where the ‘I’ is coming.” So, that’s what we also try to teach. Here, instead of observing the ‘I’, for the same ‘I’, I talk about ‘consciousness of existence’. They both are same. That is where the ‘I’ feeling is coming for you. And that is where is the consciousness of existence. Thus, to make you to go to observe to that level, first you need to silence the mind. So, even Ramana Maharishi said, you have to silence, actually. But He said, “Observe from where the ‘I’ is coming,” means observe only that. The beginning itself, if you can observe that ‘I’, then all other thoughts and visions will disappear. Mind will become silent. So, like this, it is the same thing. A little bit here and there, that is all difference. Nothing much is different there. The teaching is the same.
Question: Thank you, Babaji. There are other saints, at least in India, they recommend a part of naama japa, name repetition. Like Kabir; we read that Kabir practiced “Rama, Rama, Rama”. We also hear about other saints who did naama repetition and got Self-realization. Is that a valid path and how does it compare with Jangama dhyana?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, you see, it can be valid if one understands the technique of mental application. The mind should get applied so much, so much obsessed, totally, that one day… Suppose you chant either Rama, Krishna, anything, it’s up to you – when you go on chanting “Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama”, nothing else is there. You are not there at all. You don’t remember about yourself. You don’t even think that you are repeating Rama’s name. All this has to disappear. So much of your mental concentration. Finally, when you achieve total concentration, it is like a tapas. Only Rama is there and nothing else is there, not even you in your consciousness. Then you would reach the state of a tapas. After that, when you go on chanting “Rama, Rama, Rama”, that also subsides. Your consciousness gets absorbed into the Self slowly, then it is unable to chant also. It becomes quiet. That is the highest status of the bhakti marga, when that chant also… That is when the consciousness merges with Rama. That Rama, that truth, Rama as that Truth, not simply the one holding a bow and arrow, that Truth which is the Ultimate which is just all-pervading, when it merges there, you don’t know what you are doing. Means, you won’t be able to chant, you won’t be able to repeat, you have become totally quiet. Through this path also, if you adopt like that, if your concentration is so perfect, hundred percent, then the mind becomes quiet one day; it won’t be able to continue chanting also. If you become absorbed into Divinity so much, you become silent. It is an awesome experience, whichever happens.
You see, if you see a beautiful scene outside, it is an awesome experience, then you become dumbfound, you become silent. Mentally, it is inexplicable, you are unable to explain what it is, “Ha, what it is.” To that state, that can also take you. If you concentrate on That and you don’t know anything else; That, simply That. And that also, all imagination stops. You don’t try to imagine what is Rama. Simply chant Rama, because you cannot imagine what is Rama. You cannot understand what is Rama. God cannot be understood like that one. So, like that, if you simply proceed, chant Rama, don’t try to analyze anything, don’t try to understand anything. Simply chant “Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama”. Don’t try to imagine His physical form also, then the attention will not be there a hundred percent. It gets divided. That much, only that “Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama, Ram”. You see, for Valmiki, “Mara, Mara” became “Rama, Rama”. And He chanted to that extent, He merged with that one. He was not there. So thus, His consciousness also became quiet. And that ‘Rama’ also became quiet into the Ultimate Truth, that which the true Rama was. And He became Self-realized.
So, if such a technique is understood and such an obsession, such love, such devotion, such faith; nothing else is there. Like Guru Nanak chanted “Tera, Tera, Tera, Tera”; when He counted one, two, three, four…thirteen, ‘Tera’, means ‘You’, and He merged in that one. That is how He became Self-realized. There was nothing else for Him. That ‘Tera’ was nothing but Divinity, it became Divinity for Him. So, the Divine, any name can be the Divine, not necessary it has to be Divine. When you don’t have the duality, when you go into the advaita, non-duality. Only “Rama, Rama, Rama”. Everything becomes Rama.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Some teachers advocate, again somewhat popular also, pranayama techniques. They go by different names like kriya yoga, or there are many techniques that even in textual scriptures they say if you control the breath bliss happens, and all the other things happen. Is that a valid path for Self-realization?
Babaji Maharaj: One has to practice thoroughly the same thing. Controlling the breath means how much you can control? It cannot remain like that forever. You take the oxygen inside, it has to come out also, carbon dioxide has to come out. Inhale and exhale has to happen. It can slowly happen. You have to concentrate on that breath, actually. Many ancient people might have practiced; amazing. Long-time jala stambhana vidya also used to be there. Like Duryodhana could sit inside the water by controlling the breath. They had practiced such an amazing thing. Such a thing may not be possible in this kali yuga, but still that also could not take him to Self-realization. The purpose is important. Should merge with that one. Rarely somebody would have practiced in ancient times, we cannot tell, but in this kali yuga, it is not easy. So, usually the technique taught is a long breath; when you take smoothly inhale and exhale, you concentrate your mind. We also tell, whenever your mind is restless, if you take a long inhale, slowly smoothly gently and exhale, then the restlessness of the mind can be brought down.
Finally, it is the mind which has to become quiet. Breath is different. Breath is from the body, from the atmosphere that it is absorbing for its life. But mind has to become one with that one, then mind becomes silent. So, then it can take you eventually; abandon that one also, you forget. Smoothly it keeps going, but in your concentration you would have forgotten, then you go that one. So, several items are taught by some gurus together; “Ten minutes you do this, ten minutes, you do that one.” That gives an excitement for them; they keep doing, keep doing. But if they do not adopt the right technique… Fifty years or a hundred years they can keep doing, but they will not achieve anything. The mind will not come down, the ego will not disappear at all. So, the technique should be, you have to merge with that one. That is important. The ‘I’ has to disappear, the ego has to disappear, ‘‘I’ doing that’ – all this has to disappear. Then only it goes introvert, merges into the Self.
So, such techniques are very rarely possible nowadays. In ancient times, some sages might have practiced; I am not aware so much of knowledge of the scriptures or any such thing. Means if such a thing would have happened for anybody, only such a person would have achieved the Self-realization. But nowadays, they simply concentrate, “I have to concentrate on this a little bit, some this, some that”, any name is given, new name is given, and then that becomes exciting, arises curiosity. “What is it?” It is the same daliya-oriental type. A chef makes; he gives a new name, and he brings it to me. This is the daliya upma we used to eat so many times, and he has given a new name, and he has become a world famous chef. So, this is the world marketing, arise curiosity, give a new name; the thing is the same. Koham, soham, everything is the same. Who am I? I am that. But your mind has to merge with that One. Mind has to become silent, removing the ‘I’; that ‘I’ is the final ego, the final thorn of ego – that has to disappear. Till then, a merger towards that Truth, you can never go. You will simply remain outside playing the game, that’s what happens. So, this one must understand, get absorbed so much that you don’t know anything else.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. In a similar vein, Shankaracharya has established institutions, mathas in various parts of India. And they all recommend a Vedic traditional life path, like learning the scriptures, the Vedas, following the various rituals like agnihotra and other rituals in the Vedas. And then they say slowly withdraw in the later part,and then recommend a path in that way. Is that possible in this Kaliyuga and is that a valid path?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, you have to narrow down to single-pointedness. That is what is important. They are all very good. You can become a scholar, so that you can teach it to others, what the ancient people taught, what the ancient sages experienced about the truth. Then, it depends on you. Are you happy just by becoming a scholar in this world? You can become a scholar, that is also helpful. But that is not the stop. You have to narrow down. You need to have the yearning to go to the Ultimate Truth, what that Self-realization is. So much is told in Yoga Vasistha, Ashtavakra Samhita, Viveka Choodamani, everything. You should be able to take out the essence and go for that Truth. Then you will find mind has to become quiet. You have to lose the ego. In any terminology you use – moksha sanyasa yoga. You stop thinking, “I want to sleep, I want to sleep,” and you stop thinking,” I want to sleep,” and you go and fall asleep, and you don’t know when you fell asleep. That is the clue, something like that. So, you have to become totally quiet to go to that level of Self-realization.
Other things are all okay. That is good. Anybody can become, one can become a scholar in science, another can become a scholar in Vedas, another can become a scholar in Upanishads. They can read it, that is not a thing. But that is not the final step if one’s idea is to become Self-realized. You cannot simply say, “I have studied Isaac Newton, I have studied about so many scientists.” Simply studying them, you won’t become Self-realized. Finally you have to cross the barrier of time and space. That’s what Einstein said. Crossing the barrier of time and space means your mind has to become silence. That is the basic idea, that has to happen. So, this one has to understand if your idea is to become Self-realized.
These are two totally different things. What we are teaching is different. One wants to become a scholar, that is welcome. Very good. We will appreciate anybody who is a great scientist. We appreciate anybody who is a great scholar of Upanishads and Vedas. We appreciate. But one should not become egoistic just by learning these scriptures. If the ego is there, they don’t know anything. They have simply measured a little bit of space and they are holding that space, “This is mine.” Like that, reading a scripture, you read. But that scripture eventually has to lead you to that Ultimate Truth. Curiosity has to come. Then that is Self-realization.
Means, I am not criticizing anyone. All are very good. All scholars are all very appreciable. We have highest regard for them. All such wonderful things. But we are talking about Self-realization, going to the Ultimate Truth. So, that is why I told you this has to happen. Mind has to become silent, means mind has to lose the ego. The ego crops up when you imagine yourself as ‘I.’ As long as the ‘I’ is there, the danger of that ‘I’ wanting anything also happens. So, finally that ‘I’ has to disappear. That is what Ramana Maharishi said, “When you observe from where the ‘I’ is coming, finally your mind will get absorbed into That. When it gets absorbed into That, the ‘I’ would have gone.” The seer and seen both disappear. When there is a mind, that mind thinks about itself as the ‘I,’ that it wants to realize about this Truth. When it would have merged into this Truth, only This is there. This is neither this nor that. That’s what Buddha said, “Anatman or Atman” – people keep arguing unnecessarily. There is no need. Just become quiet.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. In certain parts of India, tantra is being followed; the vama marga or tantra left-hand path where they even go for things like the 5Ms, and they use meat and alcohol, so many other things which are not normally prescribed in the other paths we have heard about. Is tantra a valid path for the Self-realization or people just fooling themselves?
Babaji Maharaj: First thing, I am not a thorough scholar of tantra jnana, tantra vidya. That’s why I cannot comment a hundred percent. But a little bit of understanding; when you talk that they eat meat, they eat this, all those things, it could be somewhat like this – when we try to teach “Try to see God everywhere in everything as everything”. So, to overcome the effects of differences in all the appearance of the illusion in the mind, they might adopt this type of thing, so that the mind does not discriminate anything. Whatever you eat or whatever you do, things would have been adopted; some schools might be there. When they are doing also, they have to observe whether the mind is differentiating anything, discriminating anything, or is it quiet. So that’s when “This is also that truth, this is also that truth, this is also the truth.” Then the identification all disappears. There is neither good nor bad. That is the basic idea what I feel in my opinion. Identity of “This is good, this is bad” both disappear. There is neither good nor bad. There is neither happiness nor unhappiness.
So that is a different school. Some people might try to follow, but that’s also not easy. Finally, whatever you eat, meat or you eat vegetable, you will become Self-realized only if your mind becomes quiet. Means then the mind is not differentiating anything. Whatever you want to choose, whichever path, it has to become silent. Then it merges with the Self. Then there is neither something nor nothing. So, you don’t have any discrimination. So, that is a very difficult type of school, it might be. Some people might adopt, but that doesn’t stay. But this has to happen. Simply if you go on eating, the mind will not give up, mind should not start thinking, “This is the thing,” but it should become quiet. This one must understand. This is the final truth. Whichever path you undertake, whatever you want to do, mind has to become quiet. Give up its imaginations. Then the differences will all merge. Oneness will be experienced; that truth of Ultimate Truth. So, that is what we are trying to teach.
Question: Can one follow multiple paths simultaneously?
Babaji Maharaj: Can try, but you have to follow the same technique and try to reach the ultimate as soon as possible. The rarest of rare things, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, He could do that one. He was such a great yogi. Not ordinary people, everybody cannot do such things. He practiced everything, tantra also, so many different religions also, different paths also, everything He practiced. But He had reached such a height of quietening the mind. So thus, He could get absorbed into that and very soon He could realize the Self; can be realized through this path also. So that is what I was trying to tell when you spoke of tantra. So, based on this only. Ramakrishna followed the exact technique, getting totally absorbed into that. Means you are eating tantra, you are eating a meat, you are eating this; you should not have the imagination that you are eating meat or what you are not eating. Then the mind becomes quiet.
Like that, He practiced different paths. And through all paths, He reached the silence of the consciousness because He had already lost that ‘I-ness’. Then He became realized. Then He realized all paths will definitely lead to the same Truth, provided you follow the same technique of quietening your mind. Mind should not be differentiating; that is important.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. There are so many paths we have discussed. How do I know which is the quickest path for anybody for Self-realization, if somebody is starting this journey. So many things are there. How do I say this is the best or quickest path for me for Self-realization?
Babaji Maharaj: See, human mind easily accepts such a path to which it has inclination. This is important. That’s why as a yogi, we never try to impose on anybody “This is the only path”. You can take up any path to whichever you have inclination. Generally, we try to stick to bhakti marga or dhyana marga. We don’t try to go into too many confusing paths. So, like that. So finally, it is the individual seeker who has to decide which path is suitable for him.
So, having born in India to the Sanatana Dharma, we all grew up through bhakti marga, simple bhakti marga, not conflicting things. A simple bhakti marga of remembering Divinity, Rama, Krishna, Govinda, Mata, Devi, like this. We chanted, we chanted stotrams. That was very helpful to quieten our mind because we were totally concentrated, innocently. That gave us enormous bliss as a child also. Then we went on doing it. We merged it into that one, so then the mind became quiet. So, thus, meditation became so easy for us. So thus, we could understand by the teachings of Adi Shankaracharya, Madhavacharya and Ramanujacharya that all are same, there is no difference. At different stages they are all same, there is no conflict. You begin as a droplet. The ocean is your Divine. You are the jeevatma, ocean is your Paramatma. And as you proceed, you will understand you are a part of the ocean only. The waves are nothing but a part of the ocean. Only when it is in the border, it dances. But once it goes back to the center of the ocean, it composes, it becomes calm. Like that, when the mind starts merging, going into samadhi, it realizes some inner force is sucking you gradually. So thus, you realize you are an amsha of that one. Finally, the oneness happens. The seer and seen disappear. Neither devotee nor God is there. Only one. So that is advaita. Like all are in its own way great in those stages. You adopt. One day you will have to go back to the Self. That is the Truth finally. For that only in ancient times, they called it Self-realization. Then so many terminologies have come, anginat. So, there is no such thing.
So, you should know which is suitable for you. You try to do this one. That’s why our Swamiji was such a unique Master. He said, “If you are practicing any other type of sadhana...” He did not name the sadhana. He said, “If you are practicing any other type of sadhana, you can do it before this meditation or after. Then try to do this meditation also, whether this suits you, whether you understand this, then this will be very easy if you gain the inclination. Simply you have to become quiet, that is all.” So, like that, one has to choose. You know your mind. Nobody else can know. Simply some guru trying to impose is not correct. I don’t believe as a yogi. We try to ask you which is the one – you should know your mind. To which your inclination is there, you go on that path. That is how Sri Krishna also taught so many paths in Bhagavad Gita. You can do like this also, you can do like this also. But finally, you have to lose that ‘I’ ego.
Question: Babaji, I wanted to tap in further to the rationalist path of yearning. It seems that yearning which Babaji is describing is not equal to thinking. It’s not intelligence. It has some more attributes or more depth to it. Can Babaji explain further?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah. This yearning will happen when you have that love for that. You want to go for that. You want to know that truth. So, then you are actually not rational. Rationally is simply some certain things may be superstitious, but very often I have seen rational people become egoistic. They simply try to end up criticizing the other. But you need to have that love. Love for that Ultimate Truth. You fall in love. That is the yearning. Sometimes people want to call it as a passion. Passion will not diminish if it is in truth. In true sense of passion is there. We want to know the Ultimate Truth. You become humble. You exercise humility. There will not be any ego. That is what I would like to say.
Same Questioner: And so now I want to ask about intelligence. Like many people think that inquiry is through intelligence. And this intelligence might just be the brain thinking, and they still will be involved in the thought path of just questioning and not go to the silence. I just wanted to differentiate the ego in the intelligence as a word versus without ego, the wisdom which Babaji describes.
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, a real intelligent person understands by simple application of intelligence – means which goes into thinking, calculating logic – we cannot know the Ultimate Truth by remaining as a separate thing. By remaining as a separate entity from the space, you can never measure the space. Only the space can measure the space. That has to be [understood]. That is the real application of intelligence. Like Ramana Maharishi, it happened; “Who am I? When I am dead what will happen?” He laid down and tried to experience the death. “Now this body is dead. My relatives will take and cremate this one. But what will happen to me? This ‘I’ is there. This is not disappearing. This is not going anywhere else. Many people may think this body to be me. But it doesn’t seem to be.” That is the real intelligence application. Those who are able to apply the real intelligence; that through imagination, through thinking we can never know the Truth. That’s what one great scientist Einstein realized, we have to go beyond time and space. Not through imagination, not through demonstration, not by remaining different!
Question: Thank You for this opportunity. I have a question. When I meditate, it’s very often very difficult. What to do? And I think it’s very important to put attention on attention. You very often say pay attention to attention. And what happens when we pay attention to attention?
Babaji Maharaj: See, you are trying to pay attention to that which is trying to be attentive, actually. Means the mind is trying to watch the mind. But until the mind is preoccupied with imagination – because the thoughts and visions what I’m talking – as long as thoughts and visions are there you must know that the imagination is there. So, you are preoccupied with the imagination. Just by asking you to watch and not think. Just watch means you don’t get involved with the thoughts, then the thoughts and visions will disappear. Then the attention will go on to that which is trying to be attentive. Means the mind’s attention will go to the mind. Means, just like your consciousness is sucked into the movie. When you withdraw that attention from the movie, it comes back to you and you realize you are sitting. That is how in the silence your mind will come back to itself. Then you realize that consciousness of existence. That is what has to happen.
Same Questioner: Sometimes when I pay attention to attention, I recognize that I cannot see myself. And I just recognize that something moving; there is ‘I’ that is moving. And when I recognize that ‘I’ is moving, I can stop.
Babaji Maharaj: Often seeing means you would expect that you should be able to see with the eyes. When you try to do that closing the eyes also, if no thoughts are there only a space might be appearing. But in that, the consciousness of your existence is there. That is infinite. That is where you have to concentrate. That is where you have to focus.
Question: Pranaam Babaji. It is said that if we make our body absolutely still, our mind also becomes still. So, as we sit for the meditation, how important is it to pay attention in between the eyebrows also and keep the body still? The attention may get divided if the body moves, so how do we combine that or we have to only concentrate in between our eyebrows?
Babaji Maharaj: Your job is to concentrate in between eyebrows with the mind. In that process, slowly by practice, body also needs to be stationary, still. That is why slowly you practice – half an hour, one hour so that you are able to sit comfortably stationary, unmoved. If the body moves, then the mind gets a jerk and it can run away. That is why eyebrows, eyelids and the body all needs to be steady. Eyeballs also keep moving parallelly. Steadily if you watch, that can hold the mind single-pointed strongly and making it quiet. Like that you have to practice.
Same Questioner: So, some effort has to be put in keeping the body still. Is it so?
Babaji Maharaj: In the beginning, it may be necessary. If you are not used to sitting, you sit but try to keep your concentration here without trying to bother every time. Just like the driver is driving, his attention is on the road, brake and gear; by practice, he keeps doing. Like that, your attention needs to be here [points to in between eyebrows]. By practice, try to remain still. Practice and then your meditation will become more smooth.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. My question is in addition to what Prachi asked earlier. So as Ramana Maharishi and You also suggested, we should focus on in between our eyebrows. But sometimes what happens, our body starts giving some indicators like it’s paining or you get some ache. And as Ramana Maharishi says, you are not this body, you are not this mind. So before going to the meditation state, how can we eliminate our pain and everything coming from the body and just focus ourself in the center of the eyebrows. How can we do that?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, if you are not used to sit that long from a young age, definitely some pain can come. When pain comes, first trying to keep the attention in between eyebrows, you can stretch out the legs or hands a little bit. But not too much; for a minute or half a minute, and then try to sit back. Then maybe you can continue for another half an hour or so like that, then the pain happens. Simply to eliminate easily by thinking is not possible. Long time meditation only that helps you when you become used to. Initially, if you stretch out a little bit, is no problem. If it still pains, get up, walk a little bit, wash your face, then again come back and try to sit. Like that you practice and try to increase; fifteen minutes, thirty minutes. Eventually try to make it one hour that you are able to sit comfortably without any pain, at least. And then you can practice to remain quiet mentally. That is what I would recommend.
Very lovely questions came, Prasanna, and to all others also. Thank you all.
End of Session
