Recorded on 3rd January 2026 with worldwide participants
0:00 Intro
0:11 When grace meets maturity of discrimination then dispassion is generated within the heart.
1:18 The relation between non-dual point of view of the Self – everything is within the Self, and how the mind has started creation with thoughts.
4:15 Why has creation happened?
6:56 Why is it almost impossible to achieve Self-Realization if this creation is just a play of the Self?
11:49 Simply denying the notion of ‘I’ does not mean that it gets destroyed.
14:02 How can the Creator come into an apparent relative existence to create and what is the relationship between karma and death?
17:09 This Creation’s nature is thought, it doesn’t have any materiality.
20:34 What is the trigger point for the Consciousness to start creating at the beginning of everything?
22:18 The Creator was never created but is the creator of everything.
24:30 Shakti is the reality of all inevitable events in the future. What is the role of our efforts in relation to the nature we carry due to this Shakti?
26:35 The creation in the mind is an agitation in the consciousness. How can we prevent that agitation to go on and on, how can we diminish it with our consciousness?
34:04 If the agitation in the consciousness stops us to know who we are, what is the meaning of doing anything in this world that is not related to achieve this?
45:12 Is this state of no-mind and being Self-Realized the same thing, and what does that look like in Bhakti Yoga?
47:55 What is the similarity and difference between Jangama Dhayan and Trataka?
48:52 When all vasanas are dropped, how then is creation perceived as the external world?
49:52 Does Babaji’s experience during Tapas align with scriptural descriptions of cosmic creation?
50:38 How to use intelligence power of discrimination in such a way that it does not bind to ego and judging others, but simply to transcend the unreal and awaken to the real Self?
52:53 Experiences within a dream of being aware that one is dreaming.
Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.256
Yoga Vasistha – Creation
YouTube Link: https://youtu.be/O1OqJZG5WU8
Recorded: 03 January 2026
Start of Questions and Answers
Question: So, the topic today is ‘Creation’ of Yoga Vasistha. And then the first question is related to the previous topic of dispassion, because in that chapter Vasistha tells Sri Rama that He has achieved the highest dispassion of the world. But He says that that is not due to any cause of this world, it is due to the grace of God. Then Vasistha tells Him that “This grace needs the maturity of discrimination at the exact moment when dispassion is generated in the heart.” So, can Babaji explain a little bit more about this specific quote, what is the meaning of this?
Babaji Maharaj: ‘Generated in the heart’ means when the mind goes into such emotions of love, faith and devotion, then from the source, this gets generated. That is what symbolically they would have mentioned as ‘comes from the heart.’
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Then, we start with ‘Creation’. And the first thing is, all the time it is repeating the thing that Babaji also says many times, about the bracelet; that there is no bracelet without the gold. Like, there is no creation without the Self; we are all the same substance. So, can Babaji explain both, the relation between the non-dual point of view of the Self and everything else, that actually everything comes from the Self? And also, from our inner consciousness and the mind, how we start the creation with the thoughts, but we are that inner consciousness. Can Babaji explain about this relation?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, the first clue is mind itself. People know what is all in the mind. But many people may not know what the mind is. So, the appearance that is in the mind cannot be different from the mind. All the appearances, which are so many, they are in dualities. They can be a good or a bad, right or a wrong, any such thing in the mind. But the mind itself is the one source, one single Self. In the same way, in the space it is all pervaded. Whatever appearance, the universe, it is all from one single source that is the Self, that which is there as all pervaded oneness, in that One which is not divided by two, which is not a second thing. It is only one thing; from that only all the creation has arisen. If everything disappears, it would have gone back to that Truth which is all-pervaded. So, whichever is all-pervaded, you have to observe that. Because if we tell ‘the space’, people might think differently, the criteria may come to their mind, “How can the space, which is simply a void place?” Actually, space is not just a void place. It is a Supreme Consciousness of existence, absoluteness, in which the universe has appeared. This you experience in deeper samadhi state. So, when you are able to observe the mind and its creations, its absorbing back of whatever it has created, its creativity. So, this universe has appeared by the creativity of a higher consciousness. So, as it spreads, spins, the creation also happens.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. And I know that maybe this question is not important, but why has it been created? Why has it not been able to just stay in the Self?
Babaji Maharaj: See, if we try to look back, there is no use for that which created because it is self-sufficient. It doesn’t need anything for its existence, for its peace, for its contentment, and it doesn’t need anything. Only thing we can think or conclude is just for sake of play, just like that it has happened, which is of no use for anybody, actually. When simply it appears and goes away, it is of no use. So, when it is there, if we are part of this, we all have to play. Just like so many things are there; a spiritual teaching is also there, that which has come from that Source only. And you find seekers also there, because they all need peace, they are looking for happiness, they want to know the truth about themselves. This is another important thing; to know one’s own Self. Because birth happens to the body, and then the body dies. Afterwards, nobody has seen, nobody has come back to tell exactly. Even though many books might have been written, but myths have been created, and nobody exactly knows what it is.
So, to know this truth is what is the spiritual exercises, spirituality is taught. Like that, it is in the creation. When it is there, your perception is what makes difference. If you simply perceive it as the Divinity, or you don’t perceive about anything, you just remain in peace, simply, that’s also fine. Then you won’t have any problem of dualities at all. If you perceive this world, and you look into the dualities, you will definitely get into some problem. Some things you might like, something that’s happening you may not like, so then you are unhappy. So, if you don’t perceive anything – that’s what the Self-realization is. That’s what Vasistha teaches to Sri Rama.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. And then why is it that this is what we have to achieve, all beings here, but it seems like, first, no one is trying to achieve and second is almost impossible to achieve? So, why has it been done like that, and not like, “Okay, we come to this play, but everyone finally goes.” But not after millions and millions of, I don’t know how many, lifetimes, or whatever is there?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, everybody wants peace and happiness. As I have told, entire universe, whatever is created, including your own physical body, is impermanent, at least. So, a certain thing which is impermanent, it cannot give a permanent happiness. If it is there, today it will give you happiness. Tomorrow, if it is not there, that happiness you are deriving is gone. So, like that. So, that is what, if you go to the permanent, to your real Self. And another puzzle is who is born and who dies and what happens to us after this birth and death of the physical body; are we also born and we will become extinct, are we going to exist in some other form? This type of puzzle, that drives us. That was what the ancient sages always bothered and tried to know – “Who is that that’s been born. Who am I in the midst of all this?” Just like Rama also asked Vasistha. In the same way, the query came to them and they understood, “If we need to know what the truth is, we need to keenly observe.” So, when you observe, you will know the truth of these things.
So, now, it becomes so difficult because since time immemorial, long, long ago, these habitual things came into existence of the mind. That’s what I call ‘acquired habits of the mind.’ So, even when you are staying with your Guru, the Guru teaches you. But overnight, in a moment, a change may not come. Your mind might behave according to its habits. So, those habits are so strong, that is what is illusion. So, to overcome this illusion or to overcome these habits is the spiritual exercises that are taught like meditation. Meditation, you practice to remain quiet first. You are talking too much in your mind, more than necessary. So, thus, you are confused. You are unable to pay attention to yourself. You are also there in the mind only. That consciousness of existence source is mind itself. But you are unable to observe because of preoccupation with your imaginations.
See, everybody will wonder about the universe. Many may not wonder about the space which is holding the entire universe. And the universe cannot go beyond space. There is no such thing called ‘beyond space’. Wherever you go, it is space. So, you have to be within the space only. You cannot run away. Remember, to Adi Shankara, Lord Vishweshraya telling, “If there is any place beyond this Brahmanda (that means the space, absoluteness), show me that place I will go.” How can that happen? Adi Shankara understood, “This is not an ordinary person, he has this knowledge-wisdom.”
So, that is how people have to observe; understanding capacity, observation capacity all may differ from person to person. Today’s world when you are so much sucked into this world and your only struggle will be to fill up the belly. You need food, survive. And you are strongly, you are struggling in there, so you don’t get time at all to think. But if you sit down and try to think about it, you are undergoing both happiness and unhappiness, sometimes depression, sometimes excitement; don’t know what to do. So, if you want to know all this truth, spiritually you have to practice the exercises. Meditation is one such thing. When you are able to silence the mind, these secrets get revealed within the mind. You will understand what you are.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. The next thing is that Sage Vasistha tells Rama; “By denying the notion of the existence of the ‘I’ and the ‘you’, that doesn’t mean that it gets destroyed. It can give further distraction.” So, why is that that the external denying can give even more distraction?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, simply theoretically you listen to, or you get to hear from the Guru and then you try to behave, it won’t stay. Internally, it has to be experienced. Then only you will understand, “This ‘I’, I had simply imagined about all my personalities, the subtle bodies I was thinking. Nothing really exists. Only oneness exists.” That’s when you experience the truth. Then you will be able to overcome this ‘I.’ Because before actual samadhi, the ‘I’ also disappears, identity of the ‘I’ also. Then we understand it was only individual imagined self, which never existed. It is like all the earthen pots kept, the space is the same. Yet, if the space is thinking differently, “I am different, you are different,” and they go into conflict. But once if that space realises that “I am that truth which is outside this pot also, inside the pot also, everywhere it is the same thing.” So, this as the truth one experiences. We don’t have to come out of the body. It is already all spread, simply. So, this experience has to come; simply by a theory it is not possible. It won’t stay in the mind. You will end up doing something else when you are habitual to certain things and thinking like that. So, the habits have come with you so strongly. It is so strong and it’s not easy to wash it. For that you have to do long hours of meditations.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. The next is about a story that Sage Vasistha tells about a sage. He says because the sage is in the Supreme Self, death cannot touch him because He is beyond that. Because He has no karma death cannot approach Him. So, He is the creator of everything. So, one thing is how can the creator come into an apparent relative existence to create and what is the relationship between karma and death?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, the Ultimate Truth, as it is, has not gone into any creativity, imaginations, or creating any such thing. Simply an enormous one portion has come out, which has imagined and created. But whichever consciousness has not got involved with its creation, it remains in the Self all the time. If it doesn’t remain, then it gets involved. Like that, every time life has happened. So, the mind has become diluted and diluted and forgotten about itself. As it has become more and more weak in potency, it has got attracted to the imagined thing; instead of the source of imagination, it has got attracted to that one. So thus, it has got involved into the birth and death effects, whereas it is only the physical body which is born and which dies; the Self is not born at all. But however, this illusion has happened.
When the body dies, one thinks “I am going to die, I am born.” So, this is what they keep thinking. But in deeper meditations only one can experience this. So, that is what happens. So, the death happens only to the physical body, but the Self is indestructible. Just like nothing happens to the space. In simpler terms for understanding also, the universe can get destroyed or withdrawn, disappeared, anything, calamities can come, tsunamis can come, earth can break, anything can happen, but nothing can happen to the space itself, which is the source of all these things. Because from externally, you cannot understand this. Through the consciousness, your own mind, you have to go to that level by becoming more and more silent. When you become silent, mentally, you become more concentrated. The potency increases tremendously. Then that becomes like the thrust power to go back to the Self and merge with that Self, then with that higher consciousness. So, before that merger, you will understand and you just become one with it.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Going back to the bracelet clue, Vasistha says “Because everything comes from the mind, from the thought of the creator, this creation cannot have a physical body. Its nature is thought, so it doesn’t have any materiality.” Can Babaji explain this?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, I have told the Divine is not a personality. The universe is happening due to the Divinity but not according to the wishes, because the Divine doesn’t have the mind to think, “Let it happen like this, let these people suffer, let these people be happy.” No such thinking happens. Simply a portion comes out of the Divinity. It starts thinking and then it creates. In the beginning, it doesn’t get involved, but as life goes on and on, more creations happen, they get attracted to the illusion and they forget about their real Self. So then life after life, life after life, the individual imagined self goes on into its own imaginations, “I am dying, I am going to come into existence, I will have to be born.” It will have its own desires and visualizations. Based on that, it assumes next incarnation, next incarnation.
Thus, when it loses its potency, or strength of remaining in itself, gets involved with the creation that it has created. Like in your mind, you imagine. When you imagine, in the beginning, first thought, you may think that “I am only imagining, so when I am imagining, why not imagine better things,” like that you might think. But as the imagination goes in the day, your mind might slip into good imaginations, bad imaginations, right and wrong, fear and this and everything, then it forgets that it is imagining. Then whatever it has imagined appears to be the truth of existence for the mind. So based on that the mind undergoes unnecessary suffering in imagination as if it is happy, as if it is unhappy. So, this is all due to the perception of the creation that one takes it. If you think this is unhappy, then your mind becomes unhappy. If you think this is happy, your mind becomes happy. So that’s how one man’s food is another man’s poison.
So, this is how people visualize, they think, and then they get diluted as they go on, they die and they are born, they die and they are born, the body dies and the body is born again. But the consciousness also gets trapped into the body, brain’s reflections. So, like that it happens. To overcome all these, one has to silence the mind. That’s the only way, so that you can go back. When the mind is silenced, its potency, concentration increases, then it starts going towards its origin. So that’s what happens. That has to happen. Then you can realize the Self also. Till then you are involved into your own illusion.
Question: And then Babaji, what is the turning point or the trigger point for that consciousness to start creating in the beginning of everything?
Babaji Maharaj: See, there is really no conclusive answer when and how it began. Simply one visualization I have always told; I stick to that one. So, early morning when you get up if you are fresh, for a while your mind might enjoy that freshness and peace. But unknown to you, your mind will start imagining. In the beginning it imagines all good things, pleasurable things, because nobody wants unpleasantness. But as the day passes by, the mind slips into good and bad, happiness and unhappiness. And even forgets that it is imagining simply. Instead of understanding that it is imagining, it undergoes all experience of that imagination, like either a good or a bad, happiness or unhappiness; like that it gets involved. So, then it forgets when it started, how did it started, what happened really. So, always a seeker is advised, instead of going into this problem of when it started, try to get rid of the imagination as soon as possible, so that you can get rid of being born again, dying again. So, these effects can come to an end, you can get liberated, you can merge with your real Self.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. The next thing, He also points out that the Creator was never created but is the creator of everything. So, what is a clue for that? How is it that something that has not been created is the main source of everything that is created?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, you see the creator, what we talk of the Ultimate Truth never imagined anything. It has remained in itself. That is the greatness. That is the Ultimate Truth – in Supreme Peace the Supreme Consciousness has remained. But due to probably presence of energy, this creation could have happened – in imagination only, nothing is real actually. Just like the dream, it was never created, it simply happened as an illusion. And when you get up, that disappears. In the same way this creation, these ancient teachers have tried to explain, nothing really was created. Nobody created anything, there was no other raw material. And the formation of the Ultimate Truth also is like that. It cannot serve as a raw material to produce anything. Yet it has happened. That is the creativity, that is the power of creativity. Just in imagination only it has happened. So, that is how these teachings have been told. The creator itself did not get involved into creating. Because it did not think that “Let these things happen, let these things happen.” Simply the things are taking shape, taking shape. Very peculiar thing. When you come to know the Ultimate Truth in samadhi only, one will understand. That is what Sage Vasistha also tells Sri Rama, “When you achieve that samadhi, on Your own You will understand. Or at that time if I explain to You, then Your mind will be able to absorb the truth. Till then it will be very difficult.”
Question: Thank You, Babaji. So now Vasistha also starts talking about the infinite consciousness, the energetic force of Shakti. He says that Shakti is the reality of all inevitable futuristic events, and the ordainer of all the nature of all the beings, like how they are going to behave, what they are going to do, all of that. So, what is the line between our efforts and the nature that we carry with us due to this Shakti, infinite energy?
Babaji Maharaj: See, one thing, when you are like in this world as a human, opportunity is there that you try your best to realize your real Self, how you exist as the Ultimate Truth. This is one thing. As long as you have to be in the world, try to be more positive in your mind. This is one thing that I teach. If you are more positive, you can shape a better positive destiny for yourself. So, if every human being, everybody in the world can be very positive, then we can shape a better positive destiny for the entire world. Instead of this negativity of conflicts and distractions and sufferings, we can all overcome. Resources are there if we utilize and if we try to get for everyone, so this can happen. So, if only everybody can take up spiritual practices, meditation, then the transformation can come. Everybody must meditate in the true sense of quietening their mind. Otherwise, people will end up behaving… when the time comes they will end up behaving selfish and [with] narrow-mindedness. This is what happens. So, one has to cleanse the mind, to quieten the mind is very important.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. The next point that Sage Vasistha points out is “The creation in the mind is an agitation in the consciousness.” So, because we can’t avoid what we have already created, how can we prevent that agitation to go on and on, to diminish that agitation in our consciousness?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, being the mind in the body, you cannot handle this universe that has appeared to you. This has been created by a higher consciousness. And then you got trapped into that, then you went on getting diluted. So, just now, what the mind is, it itself is an amazing power. In this world, people are genius, many people have discovered, invented, so many things have been achieved. Mind is such a powerhouse. Yet, compared to the highest consciousness, this mind is just a micro-speck and hardly anything. So, thus, this mind cannot handle this world. What is important, you handle the world that is in your mind, thus your perception will change. You will understand; if at all you have to see, you will see it in a positive way, or you will not be getting involved mentally. From externally, you will do everything. You see, I have always told – don’t misunderstand the teaching – if somebody is suffering, you can be compassionate. That is necessary. You can be helpful. Simply, mentally by worrying, you cannot help anybody. Mentally, if you don’t worry, you will have peace. Then you can help others so that unnecessarily they need not suffer.
Sometimes, natural calamities happens. That is because the nature of the universe is impermanent. You cannot help it. Like the body’s nature also is impermanent. This can get into illness or this can go away one day. It cannot be stopped because it has to disappear. Everything has to disappear. Everything is impermanent. That realization we have to understand. But as long as it is there, if we try to handle it in a proper way, utilize its services, take care of the body, take care that everybody is happy, everybody gets the things. When you have something, then others are also eligible to have it. If you are hungry, others also will be hungry. Like that if we want to be happy, others also want to be happy. If everybody understands, if they give happiness to the other, then happiness will be there for all. But to understand this, everybody needs to cleanse their mind. They need to be able to overcome that fear in the other. Trust in the other needs to be there. And everybody needs to behave in such a way that each can trust each other. This can come only when the mind gets purified.
This entire world is not easy to visualize, not easy to change externally like that. Hundred times we saw during our Guru’s time also. We saw people coming, people talking, people listening to Him, but when they went back and behaved, they behaved so badly. I used to wonder, “After being with such a great, unique Master for so many years, this is all these people think? So selfish and narrow-minded; more than that they don’t want to see a larger cause.” A larger cause needs to be thought. That’s how many people thought. Like when Swamiji was invited by the lady to her house, Swamiji said “You must open the door for all common public. Everybody must be allowed to come for my darshan.” For that reason, whenever He used to be in the capital of Delhi or any such places, though He had devotees at the highest status, He would never go to them because He said “You will not allow the common people to come to your place, I am not going to come. I will stay only at such place where common people also can come, can be allowed.” Then that lady donated this property to make it an ashram. Means I am talking for educational purpose, how the thinking expands into a better thinking; “Let this property be useful for many people. Not necessarily that me and my family only sit and meditate. Let anybody come sit and meditate, should be possible.” Then the ashram came into existence.
Like that, if every human everywhere can start thinking like that, conflicts can be avoided. If the other person also had thought this, “This is ashram, this is Guru‘s ashram. I am in the ashram. I have to protect this property so that people can come and sit and do meditation,” then the conflict wouldn’t have happened at all. Means everywhere, the whole world, everywhere; if everybody can think more positively like that, conflicts wouldn’t have happened. People are unable to think, they think negatively, then the conflict happens. “I need to have this, I need to have this.” So, we all know that nothing is going to go with us when the body dies, everything will remain here. Or when the earth also gets destroyed, one day it disappears, everything disappears, simply. Yet we get attached, we become so selfish and narrow-minded. So, for this, mind needs to be cleansed thoroughly by the right technical practice of meditation. Whatever the Guru said. Swamiji always said, “Keep your eyes closed, concentrate your mind and sight in between eyebrows, and – just keep watching there – by focusing the attention. Don’t repeat anything, no mantra, nothing needed, just keep watching. Anything that appears, don’t imagine about it.” It may appear funny for a while if we tell, “for a while, see, don’t try to imagine about this world in any way, whether it is good or bad, just keep quiet.” Then you will derive so much of peace when you don’t have any judgments at all.
When you make a judgment, your mind absorbs that habit and becomes troublesome. It suffers if it had absorbed in a negative way. So that is how if all humanity can think positively, imagine how beautiful, positive a destiny we can build up. How beautiful a world we can build up. Whatever is there, we need to be first positive in this world. That is what Vasistha also tells. So, this visualization is important. Otherwise, there is no such thing. Nobody has thought anything wrong has to happen. We think wrongly and we tend to behave wrongly. All these things happen. Otherwise, no wrong happens means no suffering. Everywhere there will be peace and happiness. That is what the perception Vasistha is trying to tell.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. So, the creation, or that agitation in the consciousness is what stops us to know who we are, to go for the larger cause. The higher cause is to know who we are, so what is the meaning of doing anything in this world, any achievement, any action that is not related to achieve that?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, when you are in the world, somehow it is there. Now you have come as a human being. You have to see what is the best thing that you can do, what is the best thing that you can achieve. See, if everybody can think, “It is the peace that we all need.” That is how many times I have told when people have asked me about anybody performing a miracle. If anybody can wave their hand and give peace to humanity first, everybody becomes peaceful, if that power comes; that is all I would like to work out if at all that power comes. No need of rings and chains and going in the air. No need of such things. We need peace. If everybody can think in that direction, “Let all of us behave peacefully, let all of us understand the truth. Let all of us think. We take only our thing.” Like this, when you are in this world, you have to behave positively. And then try to think, “How did we come into this world? Who are we?” That also you have to think.
That means you see, if you have a peaceful life, there is no struggle, not troublesome for you, then you can think about yourself. That’s how the ancient sages used to build ashrams on the outskirts of the townships. And they used to live a simple life. And they used to have a lot of time to think peacefully. Then they could think about the Self; “Who are we? Are we born with this body? Are we going to die or become extinct when the body dies?” But in a city today, for a person, where is the time to think all these things? So much struggle is there for a livelihood, not to suffer unnecessarily, not to get trapped here and there. Somebody might be simply walking on the road, somebody might come and kill them. Just for no reason. Means these things we are seeing in the news media every now and then, just for no reason this happens. We wonder, why are we killing each other? There is no need. If only everybody can think. Otherwise, it won’t work. Yogis have come, saints have come, sages have come, spiritual Masters have come. Everybody has advocated peace, love and honor. All religions advocate peace, love and honor. Only we human beings have to understand and behave like that.
So that’s what we have to think for this question, “What is the meaning of anything?” When it has happened, so we have to think positively, “How to get rid of these things. How to get rid so that nobody suffers. Is it possible?” That is how Buddha, He became a Buddha. Prince Siddhartha started thinking when He saw a dead body, when He saw an old person, when He saw somebody suffering, “How can we avoid this? Why should we die? Why should we become old?” He thought of entire humanity, then He understood, “This is impermanent. Body will die. It will become decayed. This is inevitable. But what we can do is achieve peace and nirvana within us, we can know ourselves, where we stand, why this has happened. We can stop the future so that this is not repeated again and again, this suffering.” So that is what is known as liberation, nirvana. So many terminologies have been used by people. So, this is what it is. When a certain thing happened, if a dream is happening, you won’t be able to think in that dream, “If at all this is a dream, why should I bother?” Only when you wake up, then you have to think, “O, it was only a dream.” Yet people start bothering, “What is the meaning of that dream? What is the meaning? Why it came like that one? Should I be doing something?” Then somebody will come, “Yes, yes, you have to spend some five hundred dollars and you have to do this puja and this homa.” Like this somebody will tell. You need to satisfy your mind, so you will do it. If you don’t do it, you will go into a doubtful state, “O, should I have done it? Will anything else will happen?” Like these types of unnecessary illusion keeps happening in the mind. If only we can meditate, we can come out clearly for everything. No such thing. What we have to do; so, this is the thing.
Like that, as a child we thought, as a youngster of eight, ten years we thought, “If the happiness is there, it must be there all the time. If it is not there, why? What’s the reason? How can we avoid this situation so that again we don’t come and get trapped into this type of thing? Now we are trapped. So as long as this body is there, what best [way] that we can utilize?” So we went into spiritual exercises, spiritual path, meditated. And on the path we had to struggle. We had to face troubles. Things did not come easily. But we had this flexible quality, to adjust; “It’s okay, no problem. Let us not look back. We need the blessings of the Guru. We need to follow the teachings of the Guru. He asked us just to watch, so I have to silence the mind.” This understanding has to come within the mind. Then you will work positively like that. If everybody can work like me, everybody can become a saint like us. Anybody can become a saint. There were no special two horns on my body when I was born. I was born like you all only. Simply my thinking was different, visualization was different. Simply, my thinking, visualization was “Why is that humanity is always against each other? Why cannot they live for each other? Why cannot they trust each other?” That was a puzzle. I didn’t know the answer what it is at that time, but yet I wondered. So that’s what led me towards spirituality.
So, like this, when we are in this world also, we simply don’t think that “What is the use of doing anything?” Instead, we should sit down and think what is the best use of this body that we can do. We have a well-developed brain. What best use of that wisdom that we can take it? Discrimination, that’s what is Adi Shankara’s Crest Jewel of Discrimination – application of wisdom is possible. Why is this happening? Why is this happening? We all should work towards peace. All of us need peace. Ask anybody, they want peace, but they don’t know how to work for that. I have told, everybody wants to be loved, but they don’t know how to love. “Twelve bananas,” our Guru said. He always said this simple thing, “You eat four, you eat two, how much you are going eat? Give some to the other also.” That’s what it is. In the ashram, when the cooking is done, whoever comes, whoever is there, they all fed. It is not cooked only for Babaji and nobody else is going to eat; such things won’t happen, because this is a public utility place. That is how larger cause we have to think. Everybody has to think.
So, this is what Vasistha means. This is what these scriptures can teach us. But we have to work for that. If at all this has come, this body has come; whether this is dream or not, whether this is illusion or not, it is there or not, that is afterwards – first, we have to take care of our perceptions about this universe, about this world. What is it that we want? We want happiness. For that, we need to achieve peace. Then we can start thinking, how can we avoid coming into this type of illusion or trap, how can we avoid not to dream at all? Is it possible, so that we exist in peace, in contentment. In this world, it appears so elusive, this contentment, contentment. These two words only bothered us: peace and contentment, satisfaction. Yeah.
So that’s what we have to work for. We have a job to do. We have a thinking to think. We have to think in this positive direction. That is essential. And we have to work for that. Without working, we cannot get rid of this dream or our unhappiness. We won’t know ourselves. We worked. We all worked. Things did not come as a property from a father. It didn’t come like that, knowledge and wisdom. The Master showed the path. He asked us to work for it. Then we had to work. That is the purushartha. You have to sit down and meditate. You have to work for that. When you are doing, be courageous, be serious. You mean business. Try to understand the technique. Then you see the changes in you, how it will come. Otherwise, changes will not come; a transformation must happen. He was an ordinary weaver boy. At the age of fourteen, He sat for tapas. Transformation came. He became a great yogi. Such knowledge and wisdom came out of Him, Shivabalayogi. The changes will come only if you follow the technique in the right sense. Otherwise forty years you will meditate, and no changes come. You have not meditated at all.
Question: Thank You, Babaji.
Babaji Maharaj: Thank you. The questions were very nice. Gave an opportunity for me to express my opinion, experiences. Appreciate you, and we can open this for people.
Question: Pranaam Babaji. I have two related questions. One is, is a state of no mind and being Self-realized the same thing? And secondly, if it is, what does it look like in bhakti yoga? Is it your Guru or the God that you worship? Does that become the source? When I talk about a state of no mind, does the image of your Guru or the God become that no mind state?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, what do you need to understand, first, the mind. Mind is made up of consciousness and energy. And that consciousness is into imaginations of dualities. Good and bad, right and wrong. That’s why one is experiencing unhappiness, stress, fear, all this. So, ‘no mind’ means, this mind is known as the mind due to the imaginations that are in the mind. When those imaginations are overcome, it comes to be known as the pure consciousness. Means, wherever you apply that consciousness, you become aware of that. When the mind becomes totally silent, it automatically gets applied to itself. So, then you become aware of yourself as that Infinite. That is the status of a yogi. He is in that Self. His mind is ever-silent. Like, even if I am talking to you, or you talking to me, my consciousness is in total silence, doesn’t picturize or dramatize anything. No reverberations happen. No judgments happen. So, that is a small clue for these things. So, this is what happens to the mind. But you won’t lose the ability to imagine; to live in this world will be possible. You won’t lose that one. What you achieve is, if you don’t need to think, you can keep yourself quiet and enjoy the peace at all times. Otherwise, you see, mind won’t listen. You might be stressful. You can bring your body to a halt and give it comfort. But the mind won’t listen. It keeps spinning, giving unhappiness. So, that’s what, through this meditation, one can achieve.
Same Questioner: Thank You, Babaji.
Question: What is the similarity and difference between Jangama dhyana and Trataka?
Babaji Maharaj: Almost looks like the same, but Trataka, some people teach it keeping the eyes open. You try to concentrate on some object. Here, in Jangama dhyana, you need to keep your eyes closed and no object is given. No target is given at all. You simply have to watch in between eyebrows without imagining it as in between eyebrows or dark or light or anything. So, thus, you practice your mind to become quiet on its own without any external anchor. Any other methods are first you practice the concentration, single-pointedness of the mind, and then you abandon that to make the mind go introverted. So, that is the difference.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Our vasanas form our individual perception and experience of creation as the external world. When all vasanas are dropped, how then is creation perceived as the external world? We cannot deny the shapes and forms even though we understand them to be mitya.
Babaji Maharaj: One important thing, you don’t have to deny this world. When your body is there, you can live a normal life. Simply your mind will not absorb imprints. It will remain in peace. Whatever happens, it won’t keep playing in the mind all the time to make you unhappy. Simply will move on. So, that is the benefit you will get. In the mind you are at peace, outside it will be just like acting on a stage, you will be doing everything. But you will remain unaffected by the world.
Question: Thank You, Baba. Does Babaji’s personal experience during tapas align with scriptural descriptions of cosmic creation, particularly Brahma’s creation of the various lokas?
Babaji Maharaj: In a different way. Every seeker need not experience the same thing as mentioned in the scriptures. It was in a different way also, it happened. Whatever resolutions were there, manifestations we saw and the mind learned these are all illusions; these types of practical experiences happen. So, to somewhat extent, it did happen like that also.
Question: Thank You, Baba. The discriminatory power of awakened intellect or viveka, I recognize that this discriminatory power can discriminate between real and unreal, temporary and eternal, important and less important. So, it helps us progress spiritually. But the same intelligence can also judge others in terms of, “You are better, more intelligent. I am better. This human being is good. This one is bad.” That is actually good to avoid bad company, but we can also judge people with aversion or we think we are better and more pure. So, many people are developing so-called spiritual ego, ‘holier than thou’ ego, and then they think they are more spiritual and others are less spiritual. Or one can think about oneself also, “I am better than others or I am worth nothing. I am a loser,” like positive or negative self-image. How to use intelligence power of discrimination in such a way that it does not bind to ego, self-importancy, either positive or negative self-image, judging others, but to simply transcend unreal and awaken to real Self and joy?
Babaji Maharaj: Your discriminations and judgments in both ways can trap you into your own illusions. You don’t keep thinking that you are better than anybody. You don’t keep thinking that somebody is less than you. Instead, you just keep going. Don’t look back. Because, by doing either of the two, you are wasting your energy and you are likely to get trapped into your own imaginations. Both are simply imaginations. You thinking you as better than the other, you thinking that others are not doing properly, if you allow this to play on your mind, then your mind will get trapped into this one. And the time will go by that you won’t be able to silence your mind. The sadhana is taught so that you silence your mind. That is important. That is only when the truth is revealed.
Question: Thank You, Babaji.
Question: My question is that when you dream, when you go to sleep… Now, I will tell, through my experience. Whenever I sleep, I don’t feel like sleeping, I feel like now it’s time to go to another realm. I feel like that. This body I feel is like a uniform of the human. When I sleep, we sleep for eight hours, six hours, whatever. But when I sleep, we go to another realm. But leaving the human conscious behind, because body doesn’t go in that dimension, right?
So, in a dream, every time what I feel is, I am in a dream. Most of the time, I feel that I am in a dream. And then sometimes I feel like, one time what happened is, a dark smoke was coming from the window. And I came to know it’s a dream. And then my brother was scared. And then I was telling, “You don’t need to be scared. It is just a dream. We are in a dream state. We are sleeping in a bed.” Right now, I’m in France. “We are sleeping in Paris. And it’s a dream. You don’t have to be scared,” I was just telling him, but he keeps being scared, like that. And then I just wake up. And then I just wake up in a reality. And then what I come to know is, “O, I remember, this time I know I’m in a dream, but why I’m scared?” Then I come to know my brother, he is also my mind projection, right?
Babaji Maharaj: Yes, definitely. It is you who is fearful. It is you who is trying not to be fearful. So, both are your own projections. Because you are dreaming. So, you are inside the dream. And you are watching that dream also. So, all these effects can slowly be overcome when you practice meditation and you will be able to have the Self-awareness at all times one day when you achieve the total samadhi. So, meditation is the one remedy that you have to daily practice at least one hour to begin with. And then all these effects will come out. Then you will know the reality. Then you won’t be affected by any such dreams. It’s only a make-believe thing, just like a movie is produced.
Same Questioner: Yes. And Babaji, what I want to tell you is normally every time I feel in a dream as being in an illusion. And this time before that, what I come to know is everything is dream, I come to know. And then I was, “O, right, again, I’m in a dream.” And then I was very happy because I catch up the awareness. And then I was in a hill, like that. And I know that it’s a cliff like that, so, I jump on a cliff because I know that I’m not going to hurt by myself, because I’m already in a dream, right. And in a dream, what I come to carry it like that several time practice. When I’m too much aware in a dream, every environment it seems like it dissolves. And then I’m again into another dimension. Dimension into dimension. I don’t know how to explain.
Babaji Maharaj: I understand. Mind has the ability to create a creation within creation. So that’s what is the dream within a dream. These all can happen. But none of these are real existence actually. So, you need to overcome this. To know the actual truth of the awareness of the Self will come only when the mind gets rid of all these and becomes totally silent. So, I understand your experience are very good. Your visualizations are also very good. So, now if you meditate, you can practically experience this Self-awareness also. So, that is what is needed, right? You meditate regularly. Then let these dreams come, anything. But do not bother too much to analyze or make judgments. A dream is just a dream. Think that much and finish, that’s all. More than that, don’t keep it in the mind. Instead try to cleanse the mind. Silence the mind is very much needed. Then you will be blessed with Self-awareness. Bless you.
End of Session
