Babaji’s commentary on the Viveka Choodamani is available to buy.
A Modern Exposition by Shri Babaji of Adi Shankara’s famous commentary. This book contains the teachings that Shri Shri Shri Shivabalayogi Maharaj gave to Babaji during the twenty years of selfless service to His beloved Guru in the Dehra Dun Ashram.
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0:00 Introduction
0:13 Viveka Choodamani, Chapter 4 – Eligibility of the Disciple
1:41 Despite being sincere to Babaji and Swamiji as Gurus in life, why do we sometimes fail to practice meditation diligently? How to develop sincerity in one’s thoughts and actions?
7:04 The only person who can determine our sincerity is we ourself, as we know where our thoughts. are?
8:03 Chapter 4, verse 14
9:05 What is the importance of auspicious time and place in reaching the Ultimate Truth and how do we convert the atmosphere into a conducive one?
16:41 Chapter 4, verse 15
18:04 Can one use the mind and its imaginations for self-inquiry towards Self-Realization? Does that mean that those who do not have a Guru can still achieve Self-Realization?
26:05 Chapter 4, verse 16
27:44 Can one gain real intelligence through meditation alone or are there other factors like reading, studying, observing, to gain such intelligence?
34:34 There are many intelligent individuals who lack spiritual growth and focus on worldly achievements – does this mean they are intelligent but lack spiritual wisdom?
46:54 Chapter 4, verse 17
49:19 With constant meditation, will the mind slowly recede and detach itself from worldly illusions and only when we start longing for liberation, we are on the right path of spirituality.
Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.203
Viveka Choodamani, Chapter 4, Verses 14-17
Recorded: 21 November 2024
Start of Session
Start of Questions and Answers
Facilitator: Babaji, today’s topic – we will continue from the Viveka Choodamani – Chapter 4, Eligibility of the Disciple, verse 14: Success in reaching the ultimate goal mainly depends on the qualities of the seeker. Other things, such as auspicious time or place, or other conditions, are only secondary aids to that attainment.
Babaji Maharaj’s comment in the book: Eligibility is very important. The first qualification is how much one really, sincerely wants it. How much one pays attention to the Guru’s teaching is vital. Then, how sincerely one is ready to adopt the sadhana methods taught by the Guru is important. How much dedication, discipline, and patience one can have is eligibility. How much priority one can set is important. Many keep complaining “O, I did not have time.” Swamiji used to say, “You have twenty-four hours and if you can’t take out even one hour, what can you achieve in life? You are fit to be condemned to this illusory world’s miseries.” Swamiji wanted everybody to do meditation. Nobody listened to that. Sincerely listening to the Guru is the eligibility.
Question: Babaji, the first question. We are sincere to you Babaji and to Swamiji as our Gurus in our life. We try to emulate all of Swamiji and Babaji’s teachings in our daily life. However, at times, we fail to practice meditation diligently. Babaji does this mean that we are not sincere to our Guru or is it that we are just not setting a high priority for meditation in our life? How does one develop sincerity in one’s thoughts and actions, Babaji?
Babaji Maharaj: Ah, this is a very important question to understand. Many of us, we might simply think, “I am sincere, I love Babaji and Swamiji. I have considered them as my Guru,” but how much sincere, how much yearning will be there. Like in one of the Bhakta Vijaya stories, Lord Krishna, wanting to show Narada. Narada thought that he is the greatest, highest devotee of the Lord Vishnu. But then Lord Vishnu said, “Come, I will show you.” An ordinary farmer who was plowing his land, but all the time his mind was on the Lord’s name. So, in the meanwhile, Sri Bhagawan says, “Narada, can you fetch me a glass of water from a nearby well, pond?” He goes and comes. “And take care that not a small drop also should fall down. That is very important. You should bring completely filled with water.” So, he comes slowly, slowly, so that no drop should fall down, no drop should fall down, and then gives it to the Divine. The Divine says, “Narada, you went to get the water. How much time did you take? How many times did you remember my name?” “Ha, where is the time to remember Your name? I was so much concerned that a single drop should not fall down; that was the condition You set.” “Yes, but you had taken a vow, you are claiming that you are a devotee, sincere devotee of the Lord, and all the time you take the Lord’s name. I said, no drop should be dropped, but your duty should have been that at all times you should be remembering, set a priority; even if a drop had fallen, if I scold or curse, no problem, “I cannot forget my Lord’s name,” but whereas you forgot. So, look at the farmer, he’s plowing the land. All the time he doesn’t have to be told. He is just remembering my name only.”
So, like that, sincerity we are talking. Many of us might simply think, “We are all sincere devotees of Swamiji and Babaji,” but how much sincere, how much you can remember, how much you can behave in such a way, how much you have overcome anger, greed, jealousy, all these things. A slightest opportunity you might like to accuse someone. Generally, for education purposes – I’m not directing this to any individual or groups, please; that you must understand. So, one would think they are sincere. If the sincerity was there, you would have long reached Self-realization. You would have set a priority to meditate as instructed; you just watch in between eyebrows. So, that is what is the sincerity talking, the highest dedicated sincerity. Only then the grace of the Divine automatically works, and then you are able to go into tapas. You meditate, and then you are able to achieve Self-realization.
Simply, thinking that “I am sincere” is not the sincerity. That criteria you must know. Everybody must know what the criteria is, how much you are able to think of your Lord, your Guru in a day; how much you follow sincerely your Guru’s sayings on what you are supposed to do. Are you sincerely meditating at least one hour? In that one hour, how much sincerely you are able to keep quiet, not bother about anything else? All this matters. You have to practice all this. It may not come in one day, but you have to practice – that sincerity. That is what is the eligibility they are talking here. So, that is why hundreds may come, millions came to Swamiji also. Some or many also may be eligible, they might be sincerely practicing meditation definitely, they might be achieving also, but there may be many who wouldn’t have achieved also, who wouldn’t have been sincere, but claim that they were sincere. So, that is how things happen. Whoever is sincere, they get it.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. The thing about sincerity, Babaji, the only person who can determine that is we ourselves, because we are the ones who know where our thoughts are.
Babaji Maharaj: I have always told, you are the best judge for your own mind, where the thoughts are, what type of thoughts are coming, for what type of thoughts that your mind is habitual, how much it is able to think about your Divine, or how much it is able to remain quiet, not taking any imprints, let go of things in the mind, particularly. Outside is different, I am not talking of the outside body’s behavior. Inside, the mind’s ability.
Facilitator: Thank You, Babaji, I will go to the next question. Still on verse 14.
Babaji Maharaj’s comment in the book: People want to understand only in the way that suits them, and not according to what the Guru wants to teach; they cannot be eligible for peace and liberation. When people are successful in achieving worldly things, they forget the Guru, and when they are in miserable conditions, then they blame the Guru that the Guru has put them onto the condition of misery. Though place, atmosphere, and suitable time are helpful, one has to convert the atmosphere into a conducive one, and with a determined willpower, go for that, and not wait for suitable time, place, and circumstances. We create our own circumstances by our own imaginations, if we think positively, everything works positively for liberation.
Question: Babaji, the question. Can You explain to us more on the importance of auspicious time or place, or other conditions in reaching the Ultimate Truth? And also, how do we convert the atmosphere into a conducive one?
Babaji Maharaj: See, there is no such thing as auspicious time, place, or any such thing. The moment you decide you want it… Like fifty years ago, I left my home and came to Ashram. I was never thinking about any auspicious moment. Moment Swamiji told, “Yes, you can go,” so I just wanted, got the things moving, and just came here. I don’t know whether it was a shraddha day or an auspicious moment, inauspicious moment, what it was, but everything turned out to be positive for me. Everything that happened, good, bad, right, wrong, suffering happened, hurt feelings happened, irritations happened, humiliations happened, but we considered everything as auspicious. This is the part of training. When in training, a commando doesn’t think this is auspicious or inauspicious; this is the part of training we have to take for sake of quietening the mind. Like that we take.
So, there is no such thing that auspicious moment you wait, “O, today it is not auspicious, I cannot sit for meditation.” From childhood, I always wondered, “To remember God, do you need somebody else to tell you a time that today it is not proper, you cannot go to temple, or you should not go to a monastery, you should not do any puja at all?” Whether it is shraddha, death, or birth, or any such thing. So, what prevents us from doing our own puja? Our puja is for our sake; it is our sadhana. Smallest excuse, we tell, “O, today there is a shraddha day, I cannot do puja.” “O, today there is shraddha, I cannot go to ashram, Guru’s abode. I cannot remember Guru, I cannot attend the bhajans or meditation.” People tell “I could not come to ashram, because the circumstances were like that. A death had happened in the relatives, one of the relatives, so I could not come.” There is no such thing. If you wanted to come, you could have come. It is you who did not want to come, and you raised an excuse.
That’s what Swamiji always told. You give an excuse easily, “O, I need to attend a relative’s wedding, I need to attend a relative’s namakaranam, birthday celebration, any excuse, small, “I cannot come today for satsang.” It is your choice, I have nothing to mind, I will simply bless, “Okay, it’s no problem. You go, you cannot come, and you go, but if you decide, you can tell, “O, sorry, today I have a Zoom class, I have meditation class, I cannot come for this function.” “Is it possible?” Swamiji used to ask. “Do you have the guts to tell like that one?” Nobody wants to tell, because relatives will misunderstand, “Look at it, today we have such an important function, and this person is going for meditation.” Swamiji used to make fun of everybody like that one, but which one is the priority that you are going to set – it is up to you.
I had such a priority to serve Swamiji. I had fallen in love with Him, then when in due course of time, when the thing came, we went into tapas also; the tapas was happening all the time, because we had surrendered, we had kept quiet, that was all. I needed to come to my Guru’s abode. After coming here, there was nowhere else that I had to go, no other pilgrimage was there. Only when Swamiji took me by scolding for some purpose, then I had been, otherwise I never wanted to go to Badrinath, Kedarnath, Ganga snana, anywhere else. For others sake, for Swamiji’s sake, for Swamiji’s orders only I have done, but I never had even once in these fifty years that I need to go to Ganga snana, I need to go to Badrinath. I have come to my Guru’s abode; this is my Badrinath, this is Kedarnath, this is Mount Kailash, this is Ganga, my Guru Shiva Balayogi’s lotus feet, this Ashram is the pilgrimage I needed to come. Once I came, that is done, no other resort is necessary for me, so this is what, so I cannot think even now. Naturally, that came to me.
That is what one needs to adopt. There is no auspicious moment. Never even once to say that, “O, this is not auspicious, I need to go out.” There was no such thing. Mentally, always was at the lotus feet of Swamiji. Even if I had to go, it was for the purpose of Mission work, Swamiji’s mission work only, and all friends, all relatives, any contacts, anything was connected to Swamiji only; those who were not connected to Swamiji, they were never my friends at all. That was how we set a priority; you have to set a priority, it is your choice. So, I came to ashram, it was my choice. I loved it, and there was nothing to regret for me. I told my mother, “I will not regret whatever comes. Even if I have to die, if I have to suffer, I have to be in misery, I have to be get humiliated, no problem.” When such things happen, I said, “This is no problem. Only bless me not to be reborn again, to be at Your lotus feet, as long as this body is there.”
In 1978 I said, “No tapas is needed. I want to be with You.” Then Swamiji said, “If you do tapas, you will become egoistic; you may become famous, but you will go away from me.” “No, that is not priority. My priority is Swamiji, You, Your lotus feet.” “Within this periphery, boundary if a tapas happens, it happens, otherwise no need. When it has to happen, it will come on its own. But you serve selflessly and you are doing tapas,” Swamiji said. I said, “That is it.” So, that is how we set a priority. It is in our hands, everybody’s hands. “If I have not yet obtained Self-realization, somewhere I have not adopted proper methods, I have not set a priority. I have other so many other priorities, so it is taking time.” It’s no problem. You see, always it is an individual’s choice. Guru does not impose it; we cannot impose. Okay, you have these priorities, no problem, you attend to them so that it doesn’t bother you mentally also. You go there, you attend a wedding, you go to some other functions, some other place that is needed; that is no problem. Then whenever you have time, you meditate. That’s what a Guru will tell. So, it is for the individual.
Facilitator: Thank You, Babaji, the next question is verse 15. Thus, let the one who is seeking full knowledge of the true Self, the Atman, practice discrimination. First they should approach the Guru, one who is the perfect knower of Brahman and whose compassion is as vast as the ocean.
Babaji Maharaj’s comment in the book: ‘Discrimination’ here means applying the wisdom of right thinking. As Vasistha says in His Yoga Vasishta while teaching Lord Rama, “If at all the mind needs to think, let that mind think about the soul that is the Self, let the mind think about the real and unreal, let the mind think about permanent and impermanent things, let the mind think about the reality and mind’s imagination.” Generally, people who are educated in this world are used to knowing everything through their intelligence. ‘Right thinking’ is being aware that the mind can never give the Truth as it can give only what it can imagine. When it does not imagine and is permanently once and for all totally silent, that is the Truth.
Question: Babaji, You mentioned that right thinking is being aware that the mind can never give the Truth as it can give only what it can imagine. In this regard Ramana Maharishi emphasized self-inquiry, constantly questioning the self as a means of self-enlightenment. It is said that Ramana Maharishi even considered his self to be his guru. Does this mean that one can use the mind and its imagination for self-inquiry towards Self-realization and does this also mean that for those who do not have a Guru, they are still able to achieve Self-realization? Can Babaji please explain further on this?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, you see, earlier also you read the verse that I have written in my comment, the words in Yoga Vasishta telling “If at all the mind needs to have a thought, let it think about Atma Vichar, about the Self, about the Atman”. Other than that if there is no thought, if it is quiet, drop all ideas and become quiet, that’s it. But if you want to think, try to think about it. See, this self-inquiry, unknown to me I was doing all the time, even before knowing about Ramana Maharishi or any such thing: “If at all I am the Atman, why is it that I am not aware of it?” Like that, I used to keep thinking. “I need to know that one. I need to achieve Self-realization.” So, these things came. So, when I read Bhaja Govindam, “When death happens, none of your worldly powers or health can come to your rescue,” “Yes, this is inevitable.” So, this type of thinking is the application of wisdom. The truth is in front of you. Whatever is truth, all the inevitable things you need to think; that is the right discrimination. “Yes, the body is going to die. Okay, no problem. We don’t have to worry all the time. We will live a life. But whenever it happens, before that, what is it that I have to achieve? I have to achieve the highest. So, I am looking for peace and happiness.” As Ramana Himself told, “Everybody is knowingly or unknowingly looking for happiness and peace.” So, what is this happiness?
We go on imagining small, small things of this world, comfort zones. So, we must imagine the highest. What is the highest happiness? Highest happiness means – this criterion came to me; others may laugh at that age – but I thought if it is there, it must be there all the twenty-four hours, twelve months; no fluctuation should be there. Like this I thought. That is the application of wisdom and the discrimination that Adi Shankara teaches in His Viveka Choodamani. You think about this one; self-inquiry means this is the one.
So, finally, what you need to understand, you do this self-inquiry, this type of enquiry, so that you get motivated; you feel inspired to go for that all the time. See, if there is a bad thing, an alcohol thing or any such body urges are there, we get involved into twenty-four hours of thinking, we are thinking, thinking, thinking. So, that inspires the person to go for that; it induces the person to go for such a thing. He will be restless unless he goes and buys an alcohol bottle and drinks it, then he thinks he will be satisfied. So, like this, you keep thinking about these spiritual truths, about birth and death. The Guru says, “We are much more beyond the birth and death of the body.” Are we born with this body? Are we going to die with this body? What does death mean? Like that you think; that also you keep thinking.
These are all necessary to motivate yourself and to feel inspired, then finally, to realize you have to quieten your mind. Because the mind, as long as it is thinking, it will not give a final answer. It can only inspire; you have to think to inspire. If at all you have to think, think a high quality; if at all you have to travel in a train, you will travel in first class AC. You have the means and you can do that one; that’s how you’ll select. If at all you need to travel, you’ll travel by an aeroplane so that quickly you can reach. You won’t go by ship, month-long. Like that you apply your wisdom and try to select the best things for you. Happiness – it must be there without any effort. I should not depend on something. Somebody needs to bring a piece of chocolate for me and that person runs to the shop and I am miserably waiting, “O, chocolate hasn’t come. Without that how can I be happy? I am unhappy. I am miserable.” These things keep happening, and finally that person forgets to bring the chocolate for me and he goes away somewhere else. This happens in the world when you depend on somebody else for your happiness; it is never guaranteed. No matter – might be a dearest sibling, might be a dearer beloved one, loved one, anything, you cannot depend for your peace and happiness. Everybody is looking for their own peace and happiness. So that’s the application of wisdom and then get into the job, what the Master said.
That’s how Ramana Maharishi also said, “After that, sit down, close the eyes and observe from where the ‘I’ is coming.” So, that’s what I talk. There is a consciousness of existence there within your mind. Whereas the rest of all the thoughts are imagination. In meditation you can get rid of them, but this consciousness of existence will always be there; it will not disappear. Based on that only the sages would have decided that this ‘I’ is eternal existence, eternal entity. So, now slowly, you narrow down your concentration onto that consciousness of existence. That’s what is “Observe from where the ‘I’ is arising.” So, then you get absorbed into it; that’s the Self-realization that will happen. You have to motivate yourself to go, “I need to go to Babaji’s retreat; I need to go to Babaji’s Zoom; I need to attend Babaji’s meditation classes,” and then you have to get up, go and do it. Today’s technology – it has become so easy. You don’t have to catch any bus or any taxi, any cab, nothing, you don’t need a car; in your drawing room wherever you are, you just need a laptop, something, you just need to download the Zoom or Microsoft Teams, whatever that is there, the link is sent and you link yourself. If that also is difficult for you, God help you. That’s what’s Swamiji used to tell, finally. So, that is the idea of commenting like this.
Facilitator: Thank You, Babaji. The next question is on verse 16. Such a one should be intelligent and learned, with deep understanding and able to overcome doubts by the skillful application of reason. The one who has these characteristics is fit for knowledge of the Atman, the true Self.
Babaji Maharaj’s comment in the book: Intelligent means ‘one who is able to think constructive things and apply proper wisdom’. They should be really learned. The really learned are always humble and more focused on their sadhana. They shall be more composed. They shall not be confused. A distracted mind gets exposed too much to this illusory world, becomes confused and is unable to apply wisdom because such people become insincere and more egoistic of their status, wealth, false pride, cunningness and so on. They are always doubtful of the right things. How can such ones get liberated or realize the Self? Such people end up getting involved in petty politics, vengeance and manipulation. By habit, such people will even tell lies to the Guru. Sincerity is so important. Those who are not sincere do not take the Guru’s teachings seriously at all.
Question: Babaji, the question – can one gain this kind of intelligence through meditation alone or are there other factors like reading, studying, observing to gain such intelligence?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, definitely the intelligence can come by reading the right type of book, by being in the right type of company. A Guru who can talk, who can teach about this, and using one’s own wisdom also is necessary. If that wisdom is not possible to use, at least try to read some of the books. Like Viveka Choodamani, Ashtavakra Samhita, any such books that talk about these truths. Adi Shankara talks about these truths, Ashtavakra talks about these truths only. These are available surrounding to us; in our day-to-day life it is available, a birth and death, an impermanence, this and such things are always there. Like we have always told, you think that one ice cream is giving you happiness, and you go on eating, “O, I need to have happiness all the twenty-four hours” – twenty-four hours you keep eating? You cannot. The same thing which you thought is giving happiness will give you unhappiness if you try to do like that one. Everything, means everything of this world has limitations because it itself is impermanent. It does not hold any power to give you a permanent happiness; then what is it? Like that, you have to discriminate. Watch, it is in front of you. Every day, it is in front of you. Somebody else need not tell you. That is what is the application of wisdom, Viveka Choodamani, the ‘Crest Jewel of Discrimination,’ English translation of the book title that it is. That’s what is viveka, Adi Shankara, talking about this.
From time to time, these Gurus have come, they always have done. But what we want, we want easy peanuts, quickly like this – if the Guru can keep His hand on my head and I become Self-realized; they do not know what Self-realization means. Your mind has to become quiet, man. Understand this. If I hit you ten times, it won’t become quiet. You have to become quiet. That’s why Swamiji used to tell, “Go and buy a pair of shoes and hit it on your head, you will get atma saakshatkaara.” That meant you have to lose ego; that ego is there, you see? As a Guru we tell, “Let go of things, forget about it, let everybody come, go and invite, open up, smile at others.” No, the ego troubles. “No, we cannot go and invite, we will just send this one, we will handle like this; we want them to…” They keep arguing with the Guru also, what to do? Swamiji used to tell “All of you live peacefully.” They said “No, I cannot do this one. I won’t do this one, I will not be doing. I want to do this. I won’t meditate. If I do like this, is it okay?” They want the easy one. “I don’t want to work, can I still get a million dollars for me?” “Ah, I don’t want to cook anything, still can I get a beautiful food?” “I want to work only in a comfort zone I choose, otherwise I don’t want to work. Is it all right?” Then the Guru folds hands and finally, “Okay, whatever you want to do, you do. Whatever I have to tell, I have told, now it is up to you, you do it and whenever you want to do, you do it.”
Some people ask, “What is wrong if I want to come back to the world?” I will tell “Nothing wrong. If you think that is the right choice, you can come. Hundred times, hundred thousand times you can come back, who told you not to come? If you are not happy, then tell me.” I’m talking about happiness only. I’m not talking whether you have to come back to world or not come back to world. Again reborn or not to be reborn, it’s your choice. God has not told “You are being reborn again and again.” Punarapi jananam punarapi maranam. You are doing that, already you are doing. Has God objected to this? He has not said anything. Your karma has objections; it doesn’t allow you to live peacefully. Every time you want, you want to be happy all the time. Have you thought, what makes you not to have happiness? Your imagination is, “If I get this property, I’ll be happy, otherwise I’m not happy,” but what is it that can give you happiness finally?
So, this is how one has to think, discriminating. What you want is your choice, finally. You have to think, learn to think properly. Otherwise, at least you listen to somebody who is talking the right things. That’s what when we read Adi Shankara, Ramana Maharishi, “Ah, this indeed makes sense. This definitely makes sense.” This ‘punarapi jananam punarapi maranam’, it makes so much sense, really. This is what is happening all the time. We are looking for happiness. Nobody wants unhappiness. But have you thought? You go to market, you would like to look for the best products. Ten shops you are ready to go. You are ready to spend ten hours, whole day you are ready to spend just to buy one small piece of cloth. You want to have a best product so that you can boast, “I could buy the best product in that shop. It is available. O, you did not see? O, you are a fool. You bought somewhere else. You should have bought from where I also bought.” We are ready to talk about these things. But about happiness? I met the Guru. I saw the happiness there. I met Shivabalayogi. I saw my happiness there. All the time the happiness was there. I don’t know whether anybody else was happy or not. I have been happy fifty years, sixty years. I’m happy. All the time we’re happy. In Swamiji’s Ashram, I am very happy, anywhere else, I am miserable. I’m unhappy. That is the nature. The mind adopted that one.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Next question. Babaji, there are many intelligent individuals around the world like world-renowned scientists, doctors, engineers that have contributed to the growth and evolution of mankind from the beginning till the present. Are these intelligent individuals a part of the Divine’s plan to assist mankind? If so, Babaji, some lack the spiritual growth and sincerity in them, and are more focused on their status, wealth, or even their own achievements. Does this mean that they are intelligent but simply lack the spiritual wisdom in them? How do we strive to be intelligent, but at the same time remain grounded to our Guru’s teaching?
Babaji Maharaj: Definitely, it is appreciable. In any field, there have been genius people, very intelligent people. Then the purpose – In olden days, some of the great scientists, they came to be known as giants of science. They worked for society; for welfare of humanity only they worked. They experimented on their own children. Edward Jenner who discovered the smallpox inoculation, he tested it on his own son, whether it will work or not. They did sacrifice so long, beautifully, and they worked it for the welfare of the world, humanity only. It is also there. The purpose is very important always. That’s why I tell, nowadays, still we are advancing, so much of knowledge is coming, but that knowledge itself is not enough. We need wisdom. That is where we lack wisdom because we have forgotten spirituality. All should go together. It is all in the nature – we call it as spirituality, science, technology; different, different items we have named it for sake of our own understanding, our own communications. We have done so. But whether humans are sincere.
You see, today, human beings are so intelligent, they have obtained such weapons, they can break the earth into two pieces, probably. But where is that going? Does anybody have the wisdom to sit down in United Nations, to talk to each other and end the war? No, they are threatening each other, threatening. Every day, the news is coming – like the serpent and the mongoose, these two are going to fight, don’t know which one will eat which one, which one will die, and they earn money with that one like that. “Today, is anybody going to use a nuclear weapon? Is he simply threatening? He is ready. If you cross the border, we are going to use it. This is a strict warning.” These things are all going. And elsewhere, humanity, innocent people might be worried, “What’s going to happen now, tomorrow. What happens if the nuclear war is going to happen? What happens if one loses intelligence, one loses the patience and presses the button?” Like this, humanity; if two people or two countries are fighting, so many other countries are also involved and so many other innocent societies are worried. It can affect everybody in the world. That means, where is the intelligence is going; that needs to be…
That’s why, along with the intelligence we need wisdom. That wisdom comes when you have proper character, culture, all these things. If you have proper character and culture, you will realize, fifty years, even if I am alive another fifty years, my mind will not think this as my property. This is my Guru’s property. I’m only a caretaker here. The moment I come to Dehradun, I sit down to work, whether I have to work in the accounts, whether I have to go to the kitchen myself, do a cup of tea. I don’t have any ego that “I have become a yogi, I cannot do a cup of tea.” There is no such thing. I have that awareness, “This is my Guru’s Shivabalayogi’s property. Some other dear devotee donated this property to my Guru, but my Guru’s greatness, you see? He did not keep it for Himself personally. He vested this in a Trust so that public can come and sit and do meditation. He himself was moving around with a loin cloth. Today He was here, tomorrow He was another place, He was at another place. He went to a Maharaja’s palace also, He went to a thatched hut of a poor devotee to bless them also. He had no such discrimination here. His discrimination was, His wisdom was, bless all people. Be compassionate to all people. He never thought “This property is mine.” But see, some devotees start thinking, “We are staying here and this is ours now. We are going to take away this property.” They forget this is Guru – that point is forgotten. This is Guru’s property – that point is forgotten. This Guru has established a Trust and put this property into that. That is forgotten.
So that is what happens when if you don’t have a proper culture, character, you look for your own comfort zone, but you have knowledge. You have political power. You have money power. You are considered a big shot. All these things are there. I am giving an example for educational purpose. I am not accusing any single person or group of people in any way, please. I want to issue a disclaimer always; people should not misunderstand. When this happens, this is it. This suits this example, you see? The wisdom is also necessary along with knowledge. It is spirituality which can give you that wisdom of character. Be aware. I always tell when we were twenty-year-old, if I was talking to a person of fifty or sixty-year-old, we were always aware with this thought, “This person is like my father. He may have children of my age or older than this. I need to be respectful in talking to this person,” but today’s younger generation don’t have that discrimination at all. That wisdom is not there. They talk bluntly. “No, you don’t know all these things. You keep quiet old man.” That’s it. We have seen in the society in front of our eyes, so that wisdom has gone. The discriminatory power is gone.
That is what spirituality can give you. You have to meditate also. Be in the company of a Guru who can teach you all these things. Then you become a scientist, you become an engineer, you become a policeman, no problem, you can become anything. You can be a genius. But if you lose the vital character and culture, then it will be useless. Can we imagine the Mahabharata War when we see the rules and regulations? And slowly, as the eighteen days of war was passing through, those rules were broken by one party. The other also had to indulge. So, this was being broken. This was thousands of years ago. For today’s people, it could be a laughing stock. It was like, have a morning breakfast and then come to fight the war. When the conch was being blown, then you start. It’s just like starting a race; the pistol or revolver is shot, ‘tap!’, then they start running. Like that the conch is blown and they start fighting. The rule and law, they adopted such, that it is the dharma. But today, do anybody have any such dharma in humanity? When two countries are fighting it becomes a free for all. One tells this, another tells… Every day we get to see the news. You don’t know: “Tomorrow an intercontinental ballistic missile has been shot as a strict warning,” the news says. Tomorrow if it carries a nuclear warhead, what happens? Everybody is worried. The question mark is put by news media. They want to have their own field day. Where is the wisdom? Why is this wisdom not there in spite of them being all educated, they have become police, they have become engineers, they have become politicians, they have become scientists; everywhere it is there.
The wisdom was there in olden days for scientists. As the scientists had the wisdom, our own sages also had that wisdom. That’s why they gave such rules and regulations for the society to adopt in Vedas and Upanishads. Upanishads gave the knowledge of the Self. In Vedas, it gave how to live a beautiful life of culture and character. Then the world was happy, the society would have been happy. Today, four people start doing a certain wrong thing and then they start demanding “This should be legalized and this should be accepted as legal. This is the order of the day. Those who do not accept are fools, idiots; they don’t know how to live. They are not wise people at all.” So, this is the order of the day. Every other day this is all coming. One day you never know, criminals might tell, “Robbery should be recognized as a legal entity because more people are thieves now, majority of them.” Never know what this humanity is going to demand; free for all.
So, that is that discrimination; we are talking of wisdom, discrimination. It comes from the Guru. The elders used to teach us. Our teachers taught us dharma in Panchatantra, in beautiful stories that came out. In those days, they all spoke about the character and culture of a person’s behavior in the society. But today’s children go for video games only in the mobile. They keep close to the eyes and it is scary. They might lose their eyesight. From the age of two, from the age of three, as soon as they are born, and their elders also download the video games and give it to them so that they get some time to relax if the child is playing, “Otherwise, the child will trouble us.” But our mothers never felt anything. They never felt us as a load, as a headache, any such thing. They sang for us when we were sleeping. They sang beautiful bhajans. They told beautiful stories during food time, dinner time. My mother used to tell beautiful stories from Ramayana, Mahabharata and the ego, how God removed such egos, these types of stories. The next generation we saw; they themselves don’t know, what will they tell their children? So, we are talking of wisdom, discrimination. This has to come. If you are intelligent, the discrimination will come to you. Is it right what we are doing?
Go to the next question. It’s never ending if we go on talking, talking, talking, I think.
Facilitator: The next is verse 17 of chapter 4 still on eligibility of the disciple. That one alone is qualified to seek liberation who has discrimination, whose mind has turned away from the unreal things of the world, who possesses tranquility and the other kindred virtues and longs for liberation from the illusion of worldliness.
Babaji Maharaj’s comment in the book: The really wise shall not waste their energies in petty politics and quarrels of this world. They shall not indulge in wasting their mental energies but conserve them for sadhana. Their efforts would always be to keep the attention on the Self that is reality. They do not seek false pride, do not feel humiliated, and do not indulge in arrogant arguments. They are wise for they shall not indulge in sensory pleasure attachments. They are wise for they shall not indulge in destructive activities like cheating, boasting and petty politics. They are wise for they pay total attention to the Guru’s teaching and adopt them to do sadhana. They are wise for they shall not waste their mental energies in telling petty lies. Such ones only can apply right wisdom and keep their minds quietly absorbed in sadhana.
Gurudev used to tell, “Come to me as a devotee and disciple, forget that you are a business person, forget that you are royal and rich, forget that you are an officer and powerful. Then you shall be benefited for you would be able to pay attention to my teachings. They are wise for they shall not feel insecure and shall not behave like animals with greed, anger, false pride and jealousy. They can become fit for liberation. They are wise for they shall surrender at the lotus feet of the Guru and learn everything that the Guru wants to teach. They are wise for they shall not be excitable and impatient. They shall be composed, kind and forgiving. They are wise for they shall be longing for liberation always.
Question: Babaji, the question. Does this mean that with constant meditation, the mind will slowly recede and will start detaching itself from these worldly illusions? And only when we start longing for liberation, we are on the right path of spirituality?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, it’s a very nice topic. First thing, I would give a disclaimer that everybody needs to understand. We are talking about the mind, not the body’s life, withdrawing means. The mind needs to become quiet. So, when you practice meditation. For this, you need to adopt such methods. A couple of things, one important thing I would like to remember, when I came here, from Swamiji two instructions He gave, “Look after the Ashram carefully.” This was in 1974. And then He also said, “Careful, do not get involved with anyone.” I was thinking all the way. “What did Swamiji mean by telling, “Don’t get involved?”” Then I started thinking maybe both ways He is alerting or warning, either way. Like I should not become too close a friend to anybody and get sucked into the world if they are worldly people. They might like to drag me also, “O, let us go on and have this resort. Let us go for this movie. Let us go for this.” They might drag me also. That’s what Swamiji is alerting, “Don’t become too friendly with anyone who comes to Ashram.” Talk nicely, smilingly, be friendly, be compassionate, but don’t forget that you belong to Swamiji and you belong to this Trust, Ashram, you have to work for this ashram, this is your duty. Meditating is your duty. Evening, if you need to sing one-hour bhajan is your duty. One-hour darshan is your duty. So, these are very dearer always.
So, we used to become restless even if I had to go anywhere else, in this Dehradun town, because evening we needed to be here – one hour meditating, one-hour bhajans regularly. Even if anybody was there in the hall, anybody was with me or not, I used to take the dholak, play the dholak, go on singing as a service to the Master. Also, in a negative way also, “Don’t get irritated for small, small things. Don’t keep shouting at people, don’t go into fights with people unnecessarily; forget about it.” As long as it is not a total danger to the Mission or Ashram, Swamiji’s property itself, if they are accusing you, then you can let go, forget about it. Because there is a more vital thing. We need to do meditation. At that time, we cannot afford to be arguing with somebody, shouting at somebody unnecessarily, forget about it. So, this is what I learned. So, many people even were wondering, they used to think, “Why do you keep quiet? Why do you answer them? Why don’t you shout at them? Why don’t you tell them? At least do some hissing noise.” I didn’t know what to do. I used to be at peace. As long as they were not going to harm me physically or to the Ashram of my Guru, it was okay if they talk nonsense.
There are so many people, they come and talk nonsense and then go away, they give big lectures and then go away. They are like that; even today also, they don’t come to learn from me. They try to come and teach me what to do. “Why don’t you wear this type of dress? Why don’t you do like this one? Why don’t you do this?” – that type. We don’t get involved in any way, fifty years, since younger days that’s been my nature – just be silent and go into meditation. That is more vital. Well, that is how fifty years, maximum I would have spent serving Swamiji. That means, serving Swamiji means not only physically; keeping the mind quiet to His lotus feet. “Let this service reach my Master’s lotus feet.” What type of work I have to do, I am doing; it never mattered for me. That is one thing. I have been friendly with everyone. I smile, I be compassionate. More than necessary we don’t get involved too much to go into the world. They should come to the spiritual life if they need to be friendly with us. They should follow the Mission duties. They should be helpful in the Mission duties. Then they are welcome. They should not try to drag me to the worldly things unnecessarily. Then, such friends, we have kept them away.
They were friends before also, before my tapas, forty years ago they used to come, youngsters. Sometimes they used to sit and do bhajans. Even today also after I have become, they don’t want to meditate. They don’t want to discuss anything spiritually. Occasionally, if they come, they wanted to gossip, stupid gossip. I cannot do that. I remain silent. I remain in my thing and they get bored and then they go away. “O, Babaji has become very arrogant and ego. He doesn’t talk to us like before. He thinks he has become a big yogi. He remains silent.” Of course, I am silent. If you want to talk about God, I am talking. For one hour I have been talking to you all because these spiritual questions have been asked to me. I am ready to talk. If the same thing, if somebody tells “Babaji should I get married or not married?” That is not my question. “What should I do? Should I look for a girl or not?” That is not my question. That is not where I can guide. It’s your choice. You want to get married, you get married. You want to go after a girl, you go after a girl. It’s your choice. If you want to meditate, then tell me, I can teach you meditation. I can pray for you. I can bless you.
So, that is important, not to get involved. You are wasting the vital time. So, many human beings, if you closely watch, they are wasting their time by adopting so many unwanted things. Of course, there are responsibilities. If you are a householder, for example, if you need to earn a livelihood, you have to work. These things one can understand. These are responsibilities. You have to take care of your home. You have to take care of your job. All these things are there. At the same time, you can take out some time. That’s what Swamiji said, “You have twenty-four hours. You just take out one hour and sit for meditation. Other twenty-three hours, is that not enough for you?” If you have to read and appear for the examination, you have twenty-three hours. If you need to work and earn a livelihood, you have twenty-three hours, you adopt. If the company is giving you a million rupees or two million rupees or a three million rupees per annum, you are ready to sit for twelve hours in front of a computer and listen to their command. Because they are giving you money; they will squeeze out work also from you.
The same way, this is giving happiness which the money cannot give. Take out one hour and sit for meditation every day. Not just whenever a Thursday meditation happens then we can go, all the other days if they are not doing all well and good, we can go somewhere else for recreation. No – sit at that time, even if we don’t do a Zoom class or this Microsoft Teams class on Thursday, Sunday or Saturday, you sit down and meditate at least. Then every day you meditate for one hour in the evenings, one time at least. If you have understood the technique, then the mind becomes quiet. Don’t go into such imaginations by reading here and there and listening to so many pseudo gurus – “My this thing is rising, this sound is coming, this color is happening – am I realized or not realized…” When you don’t know you are realized, what can I say when you don’t know what realization means? You want me to endorse that “O, you are realized” in front of a hundred people. “O, he is a realized person,” and they become more egoistic. “Yes, I am realized. I am a special disciple of the Master.” All these things are a waste of energy. Just go on meditating, becoming quiet and quiet and quiet. You just become quiet, but till this day, I don’t have it in my mind that I am a realized soul. Others only keep telling, they keep advertising, they keep posting in the website “He is a realized Master.” I myself don’t know what that realization means. Simply what I know is I am quiet. I am in peace, in the awareness of the Self. If this makes any sense for you all, you also try to be.
So, that is what we need to understand of utilizing the time; it is very important, not to waste our energies. If you look, sit down and coolly contemplate, your needs will be very little. Actually, what you have to adopt in the society that you need to work could be very little, but you would have adopted so many other things as important and vital. See, at the age of three, for that child that video game is so important, so precious. Not even God is interesting. If God comes and tells the child, “Come on, I have come to give you darshan. Stop this video game.” No, that won’t listen. It will say “God, get out. I don’t need You. I want this video game,” because it doesn’t know anything higher than that. It doesn’t know the value of Divinity. There are others who will tell, “Has God come? Can He give me a gold ring like this?” Is that all God for them? That is the purpose that God has to come to give a gold ring? Idiot! Swamiji used to scold them. You need to understand what God means. If God comes, what does it mean?
So, like this, you have to understand the value of time, where you are wasting unnecessarily, or if you might be simply wasting chit chatting and gossiping. No – do something that is useful the whole day. That’s what we try to teach. Either you keep yourself busy working somewhere or you try to keep quiet mentally. That’s what I do even today. Either I am meditating, or I keep quiet, or I keep myself busy working. I am busy working somewhere useful to the Ashram. It might be an account’s work, it might be a WhatsApp quote sending. I also keep the mobile phone. Some people who don’t understand what I am doing with the WhatsApp, they also think, “O, is Babaji also playing the video game?” One person commented. I told “Idiot, I don’t play video game. I’m sending some quotes for today. I’m sending the Zoom meditation link today to the broadcast list. Some people have requested me to pray for them. I am praying for them. I console them. I’m compassionate to them. This is the work I do.” It is the same cell phone, same WhatsApp. What do you do with the video game, what Babaji does with the WhatsApp, is it not a thousands and thousands and thousands of life cycles difference in culture, in character?
I cannot gossip. Occasionally, I might take up the phone to tell what they want to convey. I just tell “Okay, I will pray for you. Don’t worry. My blessings are there. I am always with you.” More than that, I cannot gossip even for ten minutes, twenty minutes. I don’t know what the subject is. I’ll become silent. That is a culture we have been brought up. “I feel lucky I was born seventy years old, my God. Never to be reborn. You can humiliate me. Everybody can blame me, curse me, do anything, but no rebirth my Lord.” That’s what we always prayed. The vital, the highest peace should be there all the time. So, like that, you have to understand by discriminating in which way you are spending your whole day. Your body needs rest, take rest. But, Bhagavad Gita talks “Those who sleep too much also cannot do yoga. Those who don’t sleep also cannot do yoga. Those who eat too much also cannot do yoga. Those who don’t eat at all also cannot do yoga.” Whatever that is necessary to sustain your physical body, you do it. You need to earn your livelihood.
If you yourself are earning, then you will understand the value of that money. If you are not earning, if you are simply getting it in inheritance and you can sit and eat, you never understand that value. So we understand the value, that value understanding. The time also, with great difficulty we get time. So, we understand the value of that time. When you have lost peace, whole day you have lost peace, whole year you don’t have peace, then you understand the value of peace. Otherwise, if it comes very lightly, you take it lightly. If you are unable to see God, or your Guru… Every day in your drawing room, if the Guru comes and sits for a cup of coffee, then you lose respect to the Guru, you take Him lightly. “Ah, the Guru is sitting here under the tree in my drawing room. Any time I want I can see Him, He should be sitting all the time.” When it is convenient for them, they come for darshan. If we tell them a time, we set a time, at that time they tell “No, I cannot come at the time, I am very busy. If Babaji can come and give me darshan, I will just do a pranaam and then go away,” they demand. How can they understand the value of the Guru? If they don’t get to see at other places, for three years I haven’t been means they have that yearning, “O, Baba, You please come to our place. You haven’t come for three years.” I’m sitting here. People in the town may not understand that value, “Babaji is sitting there. He will be there for another month. We can see him whenever we get time. That’s no problem.”
Understanding the value is what I’m trying to talk and teach you all. Understanding the value, when you lose it, you understand the value. When Swamiji was physically there, it was like God who lived with us. Every time He used to come only for two, three months in a year. So, we understood the value. Mahabharata serial was coming, Swamiji was there, He was eating His breakfast. He told “I can stop the breakfast eating and have it afterwards. If you all want to go and see Mahabharata, you go.” I didn’t go, “Swamiji, You don’t come every day. Mahabharata recording, we can always see afterwards, it’s not important more than You. It is important, but not more than You. You have come here. I would like to serve Your breakfast and then see.” Then simply Swamiji had a small smile and then started eating. That is how the wisdom needs to work. What is more important, what is the vital thing. Seventy years, Babaji is here in front of you all, sits with you for meditation. Don’t give excuses, meditate every day. Suddenly, one day “Babaji has dropped His body, attained mahasamadhi” – if it comes, done. You will get to see me only in photos or idols in your mind. This physical body is a bonus, still available, still talks, still answers your question. Do you understand the value? For everybody, for educational purpose. We need to understand the value.
Facilitator: Thank You, Babaji.
Babaji Maharaj: This question was very nice and it went on a flow. Suddenly, we realized I have spoken twenty minutes, stupid-like for this question. I hope it has been useful to you all. And the questions were all very nicely selected from Viveka Choodamani. Such a wonderful book for you to discriminate, for you to understand, for you to think and utilize your time. I fully understand you all need to live in this world. You all need to earn your livelihood. You all need to fulfill responsibilities. In the midst, you need to take out time and fulfill the responsibility to meditate also. I am not asking you to give up everything else and meditate. Keep whatever is necessary. Keep those in your life. You need to earn money. You do that one. But you need to meditate also. Don’t forget that.
All my love and blessings, it has been so wonderful.
End of Session
