0:00 Introduction
0:11 What is the difference between Jangama meditation and other types of meditation?
3:21 Is meditation a preparation for the moment of death?
5:38 Why did the Self have to separate and lose the peace to realise the peace?
9:35 If Brahma did not get involved in the creation why did the creation not simply disappear?
13:01 Why does there seem to be a tug of war in meditation between watching and the mind running?
15:01 When I watch I get absorbed into the meditation. Should I still be watching or is it OK to get absorbed?
16:34 Since Babaji is Self-Realized does Babaji need to meditate anymore?
17:14 Does the energy of Babaji’s presence kickstart our meditation?
18:09 Is there an anti-force that is working against the Supreme Consciousness?
19:21 What is the meaning of Yoga nidra?
21:31 So did Yoga nidra happen in your Tapas?
21:58 There is a term called tandra where you are meditating and you go into what appears like sleep but isn’t.
24:00 Can you talk about free will or is that just the mind playing tricks?
27:24 How would one encourage someone who says they are too busy to meditate?

Satsang with Babaji: Q&A at Devarayasamudra Ashram Meditation Retreat #1, 7 February, 2023.

Question: What is the difference between Jangama meditation and other types of meditation?

Babaji: One is, in this method you are trying to make the mind quiet, single pointed on its own without any external anchor. Whereas all other methods, everything else is that first you try to gather the mind using that as an anchor. So, like any body part, like Kriya yoga, different things, you try to focus on that one, then breath also you focus, so you stick to that one as an anchor. So here in this, no anchor is given. You just watch in between eyebrows. So this is one of the highest methods practiced in ancient India also. Of course it was initiated by Lord Shiva; into this Swamiji was initiated, into this meditation technique and Tapas also. So thus we would like to pass it on. He passed it on to us, He initiated us, so we carry on the legacy. This is one thing. Otherwise, this is the highest method which you don’t have to use any anchor or you won’t take any step. It’s like all other methods are first you go to moon and then from there to Mars, that type. But here, directly you are going to Mars. Means you get recruited as an officer directly. You don’t have to become a clerk, get promoted and then come to the officer. So if you quieten the mind, simply it goes introverted and merges; without any stop anywhere you just continue. That is the benefit of this method.

Somewhere in the medieval times, slowly… as many people could not understand this silent meditation, because if they are used to a form of God or a name of God, they would wonder, “This is just nothing, where are we concentrating? Whom are we calling? Whom are we meditating on?”, these doubts occur for many people. So then to make it easy so that they can understand better, forms, names, mantra, different methods of meditation have been given by different Gurus. Nowadays most of the Gurus think that everybody cannot go into a silent meditation, they need the mantra or something else, and eventually it will happen when it happens. But Swamiji was a different type of person. “You just catch hold of the main switch, why can’t you do it?” Because He did it, and He would ask anyone, “What’s wrong? You just try and you can do it. Why do you think that you cannot do it? That itself is wrong. If you sit down, if you see, mind becomes quiet and you will see the Atma, it will come.” He used to talk in a very simple and easy way.

Question: Is meditation a preparation for the moment of death?

Babaji: Any meditation, it’s like preparing for death. Slowly as the mind turns introvert, its outside consciousness all decreases, disappears. It becomes unconscious to the outside world, it’s conscious to itself, so that’s how it keeps going. When death happens, also it is the same. Temporarily an unconsciousness happens. So you don’t know anything. When the brain dies, mind gets detached. So mind doesn’t have anything to catch of this world. So it is unconscious of this world. But whatever it is used to, it spins on those thoughts. That becomes the intensity of thoughts and next birth comes. In the same way meditation also, in a way you are preparing, you are practicing the death, how it’s going to be when death happens. Simply you become unconscious.

Until the mind clings onto the idea of death, then it is scared. It’s scary, it panics. When it doesn’t know, it clings on, “Oh what happens, what happens when we die.” We start imagining this world, “Oh we will lose this, we won’t be able to see this. Our dear ones are all sitting, we won’t be able to see anybody.” So that’s what panics. But once it happens, it’s beautiful. Because you don’t have anything. Sometimes, you all try to think, when there is something, some problem also comes. If there is nothing, no problem. [laughs] If I exist only you can trouble me. If I don’t exist at all, how can you trouble me? At peace. This may appear a bit strange, but that is the experience of the ultimate truth.

Question: Why did the Self have to separate and lose the peace to realise the peace?

Babaji: It’s actually a very classified information. [laughs] That’s a joke, but I will tell you. When you have merged in that, you cannot even experience your existence. You are simply there because no attributions, no imaginations are there. When there is no thought or imagination of ‘I’, that ‘I’ existing also doesn’t occur. But you are there. This existence you can experience as an eternal entity only in a duality. Just like when you see the mirror, you can exactly know how your face is looking. No matter a hundred people talk about your face, that is a different thing. But if you look into a mirror in a duality, then you will know, “Oh this is me”, like that. The only purpose perhaps, though it may not be conclusive, for the creation, for the soul getting separated. Though it might not be for this purpose only it is getting separated, but by chance it is getting separated because of its imagination. But then it is guaranteed it will go back. Every individual soul will go back to the Self. As we tell, it is only a matter of time. If you are serious, if you understand this, if you put in effort vigorously today, then you can achieve that in this life. Or it will continue. You will get some more caning and then next life you will get into that; “Enough, enough, I must get it in this life”, like that – then you will get it. That is the only chance, possibility, otherwise there is no other use for the Self because it doesn’t need anything. It doesn’t even need imagination for its happiness or existence.

Question: Have all Yogis merged with the Self?

Babaji: All Yogis are one with the Divinity, all-pervaded. Because your mind is used to a frame of a picture and a sound effect. Sight and sound, these two are the things. That is why Ramakrishna means your picture will come as a bearded old man coming like that. Swamiji means that thing (looking toward Swamiji’s statue) and Babaji means this – like this that imagination is in your mind. But they are not in that form, that body got exhumed. Ramakrishna devotees, disciples, they were very innocent young people, they didn’t even know that a Yogi needs to be buried – that’s the traditional thing. They just took His body and put it in the funeral pyre, burnt it. Swamiji’s body, where is it? Swamiji is in your memory, in your imagination, as this space. This space is Swamiji. Because you are unable to communicate and you cannot feel anything. You are used to feel the matter. You are not used to feel the space. You are feeling this, yet you think that you are not feeling anything. It is void. That is the imagination effect. What you have imagined is wrong. So that is why you are unable to feel that.

Question: If Brahma did not get involved in the creation, why did the creation not simply disappear?

Babaji: That is what is explained in the legend that Swamiji also used to tell. An enormous portion of consciousness arose from the Supreme Consciousness. Because of energy presence, it imagined. When it imagined, creation started happening. Means the potency power of that was so strong, these physical worlds started coming into existence. That is what galaxies, new new planets coming, new stars coming, keeps happening simply like a big bang type of thing. People have tried to make many theories for that. That is explained as Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, because that portion of the consciousness did not get involved into its creation. So when the creation did not stabilize, it simply disappeared. That is when to keep it stabilized, illusion was created. Illusion means like the thing; first Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, “Okay you all escaped getting involved with the world, creation. Next generation will not be like that.” Some energy, some conscious thought like that – that they had to get involved with what they create, what they imagined then only the creation can go on. If everybody becomes Sanyas, and nobody is interested, they become quiet mentally also, then the world disappears, it merges with the Self. But to keep it going on for some time, ego was given.

With that ego, see, that’s how the devatas, angels and the demons, they are the other thing. So, they became insecure, wanting the power of throne they started fighting. So both devatas and rakshasas, the demons. So, that is how generation after generation the consciousness went on getting corrupted. More corrupted, they lost more power, more corrupted, like that, like that, the journey has happened. Finally when you have become a human being, imagine how far you have come from your real Self. Here itself, not that you have come from 5000 light years distance. You are here, your original Self also is here. From here only you have created so much of illusion so that original Self is not visible, the rest is all visible. Perhaps like that, some clue – that would have happened. It may not be conclusive, but this is one possibility because otherwise, if like the Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva they are not involved, if you don’t get involved with the thought that comes, then it disappears very quickly, within a fraction of a moment or something, it won’t be there. And it loses its significance because you are not interested to hold on to that. So, that is how. If they had become interested, they wouldn’t have been Divine personalities. That is why we consider them as Divine trinities, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva.

Question: Why does there seem to be a tug of war in meditation between watching and the mind running?

Babaji: Total one hundred percent watching is not happening. That’s why half you experience as if you are running, half you are experiencing as if you are watching. So that half appears to be pleasant, another half of the same mind appears to be troublesome. When it is going after that, when it goes after the thought, it considers that thought to be a reality. That’s what generates all emotions when you consider a certain… say a certain person criticizes. When we consider that to be a total truth, then we can get affected; either we are hurt, we are egoistic, we are angry, anything can happen. If we don’t consider that as a truth, nothing is there. You are just watching.

That was the concept when Swamiji also told. Like He told, Lord Shiva came in His hand, made Swamiji to sit down and went to Suryaloka, all those experiences. He went inside Suryaloka. It was burning for him, a burning sensation. Then Swamiji shouted to Bhagavan Shiv, and then Shivji brought him back and dipped Him in all the rivers. Suddenly, Swamiji saw He was in the Dhyana Mandir of Adivarapupeta, sitting like that. That He used to say. But hardly anybody would notice that point of Swamiji. They used to be in wonder, “Oh, Swamiji went to Suryaloka, Swamiji did this, Swamiji did that.” But finally, that is the thing. So you give up that one, you don’t like that one, then you become quiet. Then you are here. That’s what you have to do. When it’s going after that, don’t feel interested with the thought, then it will come back, mind.

Question: When I watch I get absorbed into the meditation. Should I still be watching or is it okay to get absorbed?

Babaji: You just begin with watching. As you go on becoming quiet, that also disappears that you are watching as it reaches the height. And as you are thinking, the absorption happens. When the absorption happens, by then the mind would have lost any idea that it is merging. It will simply merge. It won’t think that it is merging, that idea wouldn’t come. Simply it merges. As it merges, you go on losing, losing, losing everything. Existence of the individual-imagined self, it’s all gone. And merger takes (claps)… silence.

Before that it comes and goes. Oscillation. You are trying to bring it, and it’s running, you are trying to bring it, that dual battle happens. Finally, when it picks up one, when it crosses the barrier, then it gets attracted. Then this magnetic force of the Divinity simply takes it back… sucks. Until then, you have to apply some willpower, understanding, need to have detachment, impermanence, all these will be helpful. Then you cross. Once you cross the barrier, then you don’t have to think anything. It will simply take you.

Question: Since Babaji is Self-Realized, does Babaji need to meditate anymore?

Babaji: The body sitting like that is not a need for me. To inspire; it’s a part of the mission work. Taking the role of a Guru, we have to play that part so that everybody is disciplined and tries to meditate. Yet it’s not very easy to keep everybody disciplined.

Question: Does the energy of Babaji’s presence kickstart our meditation?

Babaji: I really don’t know how this happens. Maybe the manifestation is more at that time. That means, probably like when I sit like this, your mind unknown to you imagines, “Now Babaji is meditating, probably for our sake, now the vibrations are coming.” You start feeling that vibration, something funny like that might happen. Because in me there is no imagination of any such thing. Don’t even know or think that any vibrations are going. Only one thing, know vibrations are always there whether I am awake with open eyes or with meditative eyes, it is the same. Simply when you develop that faith, “Now,” then you get it.

Question: Is there an anti-force that is working against the Supreme Consciousness?

Babaji: Not equivalent to that. Whichever has come out in imagination, they are all smaller portions. Because the Absolute is simply absolute. Nothing can be equivalent to the Absolute. Only the Absolute can be equivalent to the Absolute. [pause] For some time stubbornly the against-forces, it goes on and on. So the Divine knows it will come back. Where will it go? Like that it will come back. Because excited it dances, dances and goes and goes. Finally it is tired, “Oh God, now I have to go back.” It will come back. Like that it has to come back. But such a force cannot go against the Divinity, Absolute ever.

Question: What is the meaning of Yoga nidra?

Babaji: Different teachers have explained differently, but Ramana Maharshi has told the right. During the practice of Tapas, suddenly the mind becomes unconscious. So that will be Yoga nidra and that can continue for some time. Simply during that time, the purification will stop for a while. So this thing happens. So you are in the Yoga, but you have gone to a nidra. That’s how it is Yoga nidra. So you come back. So Yoga Vashista’s story also Ramana Maharishi has told in his book. Once a master was there. So he asked his disciple to get a glass of water. By the time he went and brought it, he was into meditation, he went into Samadhi. So when he opened eyes, suddenly remembered, “Oh I had asked Javier to get a glass of water. What happened?” Only some bones were all there, here and there, and a glass was lying there. So he said, “I was wondering what happened to these people?” Then the A shareera vani comes from within. “A thousand years ago you asked for a glass of water. You suddenly went into a Yoga nidra. Your disciple has become bones.” [looking at disciple] Don’t worry, you won’t be that. [laughs] That story is funny, very funny. The time lapse happens. But final merger had not happened. That was significant Ramana Maharishi said. A thousand years had happened for this world’s dimension, but it was delayed that much because he was going into Yoga nidra. So that is what. So you have to be alert until the merger all happens. That merger’s yoga is above that yoga nidra. That’s what is important. Otherwise, the purification won’t happen. It will be stuck there.

Question: So did Yoga nidra happen in your Tapas?

Babaji: No, I didn’t experience like that. Because Swamiji always taught me, “must not lose consciousness”. So I never got attracted for anything like that. So I was totally quiet, quiet, and quiet going on.

Question: There is a term called tandra where you are meditating and you go into what appears like sleep but isn’t.

Babaji: This is what I explain in a simple language, present day. Maybe different teachers would have tried to talk about it in different ways, “No, this is not, this is not, it is in the middle, something.” Because if you tell ‘nidra’, people will imagine normal sleep, that’s why. But actually, like as you are in tapas, yoga, that purification was happening vigorously, suddenly something stuck. So it was not actually a sleep, yet it was like a sleep. It became unconscious of what was happening. So then it couldn’t become purified. It couldn’t become purified means the mind which is the consciousness, it will be holding on some habits of imagination. That might be the thing which might create some visions, some manifestations, something like that. And then they come back.

It is not necessary for everybody to happen. We are fortunate to have a Guru like Swamiji who taught me. “Never get attracted for anything. Anything means anything. Do you understand?” He used to tell. “Then when Swamiji comes, and asks you to come and get up and get married, what will you do? You must keep quiet, must not react. Don’t get attracted. Don’t think the Guru is commanding and I may have to do also. That thought must not come to you. Just be quiet.” Like that Swamiji used to tell. [translated] “What do you have to do, just sit quietly. Let the thoughts come, let them be.” Like that He used to tell.

Question: Can you talk about free will or is that just the mind playing tricks?

Babaji: Actually, no exact answer comes out of a free will, of this, anything. On one side if you see, like when you heard there is going to be a retreat, Baba will be conducting, you thought, “we must go.” And then you got up, booked your flights and you came. So some would like to call this as free will. You exercised your free will and you came. You got up and came. But the source of that free will also, nobody knows, from where that inspiration came, “Must go. We must go. We try.” When you try, it happens. So, you should go, try to go back to the source – that is coming from the source. So at that time, again, the free will appears not meaningful at all. No meaning at all. So like that, every day we do it. We think that we are at a free will. But we are doing unknown to us, everything, right from sustaining the physical body, having a food, going to sleep, anything whether we like or not we have to do. Like hundreds of things are there, a life to sustain, anything we would have adopted, whether we like or not, we go. We have to do like that.

So, that is what it is. The source is the Highest Divinity. That also has no such wishes finally. It is simply by a Divine play that it is happening. There is neither reaction nor action is happening anywhere. Simply somewhere you have to stop and believe, “There is a free will. There is a free will.” There is no free will, everything happens. So that also happens. It won’t allow you to sit down in a corner quietly. It induces you to do that one. People think, “If everything has to happen according to God’s wishes, let it happen, we will sit in a corner.” At the time, that was the God’s wish that you sit in a corner. So, like that, these things have no answer, no conclusive answer. So that is how the things happen. The creation is made up in such a way, guaranteed, it will not allow anybody to sit peacefully. Even if you plan to sit into a corner, something will come and it will wake you up, it will make you to go, get involved, like that. Finally when you give up the idea of this world only, that consciousness settles into That. They both lose their significance, free will or who has will for us. Actually a Yogi doesn’t visualize either of the thing. Simply things are happening. It’s moving and it’s happening. Nobody has willed, or no individual wills are also there.

Question: How would one encourage someone who says they are too busy to meditate?

Babaji: So they need to understand the need. Then only you will set a priority. In a talk, I talk to people, like all of you know you need to earn a livelihood or you need food to sustain the physical body. To do that, you won’t wait for a Guru like me to come and give you a talk or a lecture. First priority you will do that one. You cannot afford to be sleeping all the twenty-four hours, you will have to get up. Because you know otherwise you cannot sustain the body. Same way, suddenly Javier tells, “Sally, you have a time bomb under your chair!”. Your first priority, get up. You would like to save yourself. You won’t tell, “Oh, Javier I am very busy writing. Just now I cannot get up, it is not possible.” The bomb would explode and you cannot even be there to write anything. That we have to understand. That time bomb is here. The heart. Any moment it can stop. Physical bodies are there. We cannot guarantee, “I am going to be forty years and I am going to another hundred years.” Not possible, any. It can happen after thirty years. It can happen tomorrow. That we have to realize, the impermanence of the body. Once in a life cycle opportunity is there. Using this body only, we can achieve that Supreme Peace for which we are running in this world. Using some of these points, we can try to make them understand. It might click for some people, who knows.

End of Session