Dedicated to the lotus feet of the divine guru Shivabalayogi Maharaj


Peace: The Recommended Goal – online Q&A, No.163

Recorded on 09 December 2023 with worldwide participants.

0:00 Introduction from Babaji
2:40 What is peace and why is it the recommended goal?
3:58 Can there still be peace when the mind is active?
5:05 Are happiness and peace related?
7:20 How the truth of existence cannot be found through thinking
10:46 How when you stop the mind you find out who you really are
14:47 Is the ‘matter in the mind’ the imagination habits which have to dissolve?
19:50 First the mind has to be stronger than the thoughts in the mind, then does the mind have to be stronger than the world?
21:17 How is the peace in the mind maintained when a Yogi moves in the world?
28:06 Is Babaji aware that this world is not a reality?
30:13 Is pain and suffering two different things?
31:12 How to achieve peace when working in the world, should we remind ourselves that we need peace or is practice of meditation the only way.
33:37 Should we accept the desires we have since they are habits out of our control?
34:50 How to encourage newcomers to stick to the meditation practice even though they have yet to experience peace in the mind.

Peace: The Recommended Goal | Thus Spake Babaji – online Q&A, No.163

Recorded on 09 December 2023 with worldwide participants.

Babaji: So good to see you all. Offering my prostrations with deep love and reverence at the lotus feet of beloved Guru, Shivabalayogi. My greetings to you all with love and blessings. If any newcomer is there in the gathering, remember, the meditation is so that you can silence your mind. Constantly that is into a chatterbox, that needs to be stopped. Then its attention goes to itself. That’s when secrets about the mind, consciousness, and your Real Self is all revealed. So first your effort is just watch, means you have to just watch and do not bother about any thoughts or visions coming. When you don’t bother, just watch, then all the matter that is in your mind that you have created will all dissolve. So that is what is ‘just observing’. The other day on a Sunday we were discussing about the quantum physics, that when you watch or observe the matter, that matter can dissolve. But to observe that also you need the focus power and the potency also. Like for example, you cannot handle this universe by the potency of your consciousness which you call it as mind. For that you have to reach a higher consciousness. To reach that, first you have to clear the things that are in your mind, created by this smaller potency consciousness which you call as mind. So that is the process that you have to just watch so that mentally you become silent. When it becomes silent it goes towards its higher consciousness, introvertedly. That’s when it will make the universe dissolve before Self-Realization. But first your mind. And do not bother about any other worlds or universe.

Question: The topic today is ‘Peace: The Recommended Goal’, and the first question: Babaji, you have often said that peace is the recommended goal. Could Baba explain what is peace and why is it the recommended goal?

Babaji: In my opinion, peace comes actually when mind is composed, settled down peacefully; that’s how we use the word. And even in ancient times the sages always have used to end any chants or any prayers, “Om shanti, shanti, shanti.” ‘Shanti’ means peace. So it has to be. So, like now, you see, if your mind is peaceful, you have peace. To be peaceful means it needs to recede and become quiet and remain composed. Effortlessly if you can remain like that then you have a natural, everlasting peace.

Same Questioner: Thank you Babaji. Babaji, is peace what happens when the mind is completely still? Can there still be peace when the mind is active?

Babaji: If the mind can keep quiet. When it’s active means if it’s into imagination, such an imagination which can be bothering to itself. Because mind is not going to be pleasantly imagining all the time. It will get involved into dualities of positive, negative, good or bad. Something that’s happening to our liking, something that’s happening may not be to our liking. We may have to adjust, all these things. When we would have risen above this level of dualities once for all, then we can expect the mind to remain at peace forever in all circumstances. Whatever happens.

Same Questioner: Thank you Babaji. A question that Bruce sent in before the session: Babaji has often said that everyone is looking for happiness. So, are happiness and peace related?

Babaji: Yes, definitely, but not necessary that everybody would know that happiness comes only when you have peace. Different people of the world may have different imaginations for happiness. One might think “If I own this mountain as my property, I will have happiness”. Another might be thinking, “If I can have the whole world and I am the most powerful man, I can be happy”, he thinks. So like that it can be hundreds and millions of imaginations people have. But what spirituality says is all these are impermanent. Nothing is going to stay there forever. That’s what it alerts. So, a permanent peace cannot be obtained when we do not know what the permanent entity is. So, if we want a permanent happiness, we need to look for such permanent entity which can remain peaceful. How this can remain peaceful? When it doesn’t need anything it has contentment. When it has contentment, it can remain quiet, at peace. So, you would have seen, whenever your mind is at peace, means you are contented, you are happy. You are not in need of anything. When you are in need of anything, mind goes into a craving. So that can result in unhappiness, an anxiousness, all these things happen. So thus, actual happiness is when you have peace in yourself. Instead of ‘mind’, I am now using, ‘you have peace in yourself’. ‘You’ remaining peaceful or ‘your mind’ becoming peaceful is all the same. There is no difference between you or your mind.

Same Questioner: Thank you, Baba. So many people, thinkers and philosophers in the world, they think they can try and find the truth of existence by thinking it through. How can we try to convince these people that actually stopping the mind, the mind being totally quiet is the answer?

Babaji: Thinking in the form of an enquiry can give you a little bit of clue, motivate you, inspire you, that you need to find the truth. And then they need to be made to understand, as long as you are thinking, your mind, means your consciousness or ‘you’ are into imaginations, ‘your thinking’ means. So when you are imagining, it cannot be a permanent peace. Only if you imagine about peace, and remain peaceful, then the peace comes. You thinking to board an aircraft is different, when you would have boarded the aircraft is totally different. Like that here, when you want to think how to achieve the truth or how to know the truth, how to achieve peace, you keep thinking is different. But soon you must find a way what can give you that peace, and then you must go for that. You should start boarding the aircraft. Like that is when the understanding; if you stop your imaginations, only then your mind will become peaceful. Your mind will become peaceful only if you do not need anything, if you can remain contented. You can remain contented when there is no craving of wanting anything. Everything stops. Then only it can be peaceful. Like that, everybody, they need to understand. So, for you to achieve a permanent peace once for all, you need to become peaceful, you need to become quiet – is all the same. If you are quiet, you are at peace. If you are not quiet, you don’t have the peace. Any moment, that can give rise to unpleasantness. You might be thinking a pleasant thinking gives you happiness, but that is not guaranteed always. The mind will not stop into a pleasant thinking. Unpleasantness also comes. Everything of this world, an imagination arises with dualities only. It cannot remain into one thing. Then the imagination stops. If it remains into one imagination, the imagination closes. There has to be an opponent. So that is the negativity. If positivity of this world is there, then negativity, then it goes into cravings. So that is why one needs to understand that you need to become quiet. When there is no imagination, whatever remains there is the truth. And you will also discover that is the real peace.

Same Questioner: Thank you, Babaji. I think it might be quite an alien thing for many people in this world to understand that when the mind stops, what remains there, it might seem like a nothingness. But it is the peace. That is what we are all looking for. And that is who you really are. Can Babaji explain more about that?

Babaji: Exactly. This is what happens through meditation. Suppose you would have achieved total silence, the mind stopping. When you would have stopped all thinking, all imaginations just by watching, then the mind stopped. Then you will notice that consciousness of existence cannot be stopped or cannot be removed. Cannot be made to disappear or dissolve. It is always there. That very thing in which all imaginations can dissolve itself is the source of that ‘I’ feeling, that consciousness of existence is there. So, when you are there, you have peace. When nothing else is there, there is peace. This, some people, many can understand when you get into an atmosphere or such a place where there is total quietness, serenity there. And that serene surrounding also induces your mind to become quiet at that moment. Even for a moment, then you practically understand “This is the real peace”, because there you don’t need anything. Just simply your mind has become quiet, that is all. So that’s when you have that peace. So, this is very important to understand and then achieve – stopping of the mind. Many people might misunderstand, “If the mind stops, what then? We will lose the mind.” People tell, “We need the mind to live in this world.” Definitely, a hundred times, many hundred times I have answered this question; you will not lose your mind or yourself, or your ability to think or imagine. Simply, you are able to control yourself, just like you control a vehicle, you are able to bring it to a halt. Just by bringing your vehicle to a halt, you are not going to lose your vehicle. It is available – anytime you want to start the engine and press the accelerator, want to drive around you are able to do it. It is there for you all the time. In the same way, your ability to be creative, to imagine, to think will not be lost. Simply, you are taking control.

After that, you will see that, whenever there is a need… like for example, to apply the brains. To apply the brains, you have to apply it through your mind or yourself by thinking. When you are concentrated, best concentrated, or in other words, when your mind is totally focused and best concentrated, you can apply your brains to the best of your ability and utilize the brain services to the best of its ability also. You can utilize, this will be possible, thus you are not losing anything. Simply, when you don’t need to be thinking and when you don’t need to be worrying unnecessarily, then you can keep quiet and enjoy that peace. This is possible.

Same Questioner: Thank you, Babaji. Baba, in the introduction Babaji mentioned that the matter in the mind dissolves. Is the matter in the mind, is it like the habits in the mind? Is that what it is dissolving? Is that what Babaji means?

Babaji: Yes. I mentioned today, instead of imaginations or the thoughts or visions, as a ‘matter’. Like, in this universe, in science, we mentioned every appearance as matter. Appearance and disappearance, this universe, this world, things are all matter. That’s what our host on Sunday mentioned. The quantum physics means, they believe that if you consistently observe through your mind, the matter can be dissolved. Then I felt simply by the present mind of yours with its potency, you cannot make the matter of this world dissolve. To make a matter to dissolve of this universe which you are seeing, you need that strength of potency of the mind. Means, whichever would have created, whichever power potency of the consciousness that would have created this universe only can handle. If it remains concentrated, then it can make this matter disappear. Because your mind, your personality is a micro-speck in this creation. But to begin with only, what we teach in meditation; to ‘watch’ is, first let us consider whatever you have created in your mind, that is the matter. You are the spirit. Your mind as the spirit. So, everything is within your mind. So, that creation in your mind has happened based on the potency power of your mind only. So, this mind just now can be diluted, it’s distracted into millions of pieces. So, through meditation when you just watch, watch, watch, watch, as it becomes more and more concentrated, that matter that you would have created in your mind will dissolve. When it dissolves, this mind becomes totally quiet. If you pursue on this path for more such meditation sessions, longer periods, then slowly this mind which is now quiet and silent and the pure consciousness will go and start merging with its higher consciousness. Before Nirvikalpa Samadhi, that’s what a Yogi will experience, the dissolving of the entire creation. Everything will dissolve, bodies, surroundings, universe, nothing is there. Except the consciousness of existence, nothing else will be there. And realizes there is nothing else to know, nothing else to see, nothing else to understand. Just you remain in yourself. That’s when that Yogi achieves, that is what is known as Nirvikalpa Samadhi. And then, the ‘I’ thought also disappears. As long as that ‘I’ consciousness of existence is there, that also proves to be a thought finally. Then, when that dissolves, the merger happens. That’s it.

So that is how things can happen. When we talk, we need to understand always in this world, you see, only a larger power can move the smaller power. Smaller power cannot move the larger power. Sometimes, if you would have created things larger than your power potency, that means, if your mind is diluted and distracted, but you have created such problematic worry for yourself in your mind, it becomes so difficult to handle that problem that is in your mind, right? You will be suffering. You will be troubled, you are bothered. You want to get rid of that and you don’t know how to do that, because you are not concentrated. That’s when the power increases, potency of the mind. That is what is needed.

Same Questioner: Thank you, Baba. So, the mind has to be first stronger than what’s in the mind, the thoughts and imaginations, but eventually, it has to be stronger even than this world. Is that right?

Babaji: That’s what, finally, if you want to go for Self-Realization. Understanding this world… that is why, currently when we teach, we don’t teach that this does not exist, this world. People won’t understand and you cannot prove in any other way also. Demonstration is not possible. But we try to tell, at least you understand the impermanence of this world. Its shape or form is going to change, definitely. Just now, that much we understand. Whether this will totally dissolve, disappear, we will know at that stage only when we understand the clue with the mind. When we understand the mind and the things that are in the mind, so, in the same way, if it is a higher consciousness which would have created this universe, so that can make this disappear, dissolve. That’s how the clue we get. And we have to go for that sadhana, that much of concentration power.

Same Questioner: Thank you, Babaji. During Babaji’s tapas, Baba was able to not react to anything at all. But after the tapas when a Yogi moves in the world using the brain, how is the peace in the mind maintained? Is that Supreme Peace maintained throughout activity in the world?

Babaji: We apply the brain and if necessary we think to teach, to deal with the situation. But that thought will not go out of our control. It will not produce further thoughts, thought after thought, thought after thought; millions of thoughts will not be produced. One thought is required. That one thought can handle, it can apply the brains and it can be careful. Whatever needs, it can handle the situation. Then it goes back to the Self and remains quiet. It won’t go out of control. Whereas, say, commonly you all watch your minds. If you start thinking with one thought, mind won’t stop with that one thought. It produces another thought, another thought. Curiosity increases, inquisitiveness increases. So, like that, the thought after thought, thought after thought. So, what you call that, you get lost, somewhere. So, you don’t know what to do, how to handle that situation. Then people of this world are bothered in the mind when they experience unhappiness, tension, fear, all these things – it becomes so difficult for them to handle. And to make them understand that they need to do this, follow this technique of meditation is a very, very difficult job. Because when we are in trouble, when we lose something, we always want a quick solution. That is one of the general weaknesses of the human being. We don’t understand the amount of… what I have given as an example on why it becomes so difficult to control the mind. Like you have ten thousand dollars. If you lose one dollar, it’s not difficult to make it ten thousand again. But if you lose nine thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine dollars and you have only one dollar, then you have to make it ten thousand dollars, it’s a hell of a job to earn that much of money and make it ten thousand again. Like that. Since time immemorial, life after life, you have lost your mind’s concentration power, control. You have lost control over your own consciousness, going into imaginations. That has become distracted. With every thought, that consciousness also is divided, distracted. Millions and millions of pieces like that, in illusion, with its own imagination. With every character or story that you have produced within your mind, your consciousness also is divided there. One here, one here, one here, one here, like that, millions of characters and stories keep coming in your mind. So, to withdraw all your consciousness from all those characters and things that are in your mind is why you have to start watching. To understand this technique itself, it will take time. For some people, it may be months or years to watch. Repeatedly, I keep talking about this, “Just watch, do not bother about anything. If any thought or visions appear, let it happen. You do not bother why it is there, how it is there, how long it is going to be there. You just watch, and it will dissolve. It will disappear. It will evaporate.” Like that I have been talking. So, this point when your mind’s deeper layers understand, then it becomes quiet and it just watches. Then it will dissolve.

So like that, you see, it is said if you have read in scriptures, a Yogi is like a witness to this universe also. Through the eyes in this body, the consciousness that is inside will get to see this world. But in its consciousness, this world does not exist as a matter. Means there are no characters, no culture, or no stories. It is silent. Simply, it watches. It has not named about this universe. It has not made any judgment about this. Who is good, who is bad? No judgment comes to the consciousness at all for a Yogi. He is the ever silent one. These are the words of Ramana Maharshi. So his consciousness is totally silent. This is what we have experienced. Like I have told, if you write on a white paper, instantly it gets erased. It doesn’t stay there in that one. So, like that, for me, that’s why I never entertain any opinion, either good or bad about anybody, anything in the world. I might be talking for sake of communication or understanding, for administrative purposes, for defending the institution or teaching, any such things I might be using, but these things doesn’t stay. Once, like I have spoken like this, it won’t be in my mind, because mind is already quiet. It need not contain these things of knowledge. It is not needed for my peace. For others it is needed so that they can also quieten their mind by understanding these facts. Then suddenly, if one day I get to re-listen to the recording of what talks I have given or answer, sometimes it’s such a wonder. When did all these things come, these questions come and these answers come spontaneously? Because I don’t have to plan. I have not read or prepared myself to answer these sessions. I just come into this session. You ask the question, and spontaneously the answer comes. As if it has experienced, I also wonder when I listen. So, these are some of the amazing things of the consciousness.

Same Questioner: It’s amazing, Babaji. In the Ashtavakra Samhita, there’s a quote that Babaji said, “For a Yogi, the body would experience pleasure and pain, but it would not register in the mind as a reality experience.” So, Babaji is aware that this isn’t a reality?

Babaji: Yes, exactly – at all times that awareness is there. Just like you will always be aware that you are Zen, and you are a Japanese boy. That type of thing, something, a clue like that. Always that awareness is there. Because that consciousness is in touch with the brain, otherwise the body will die. So, we will experience the pain and everything is there, whatever happened. But that would not register as a big problem. Even if the body is going, something illness has happened and it’s going, so it won’t register as if it is a very serious matter. The eyes happened, the double image was appearing, but so far it has not seriously affected our mental consciousness. Then slowly after we were recommended, we were forced we need to see a surgeon, otherwise I said, “I am happy. Seventy years of this body has gone, another fifteen, twenty, ten years we can just carry on like this, no problem.” Means that was not registering. Then after I was pricked again and again, “Okay, we will have to go and take care of this, otherwise doctors will feel bad that I did not go afterwards; doctor will give me a lecture,” “You should have come early, why are you late, why you have delayed?” So, these things made me to go to the doctor. Every person who loves this body advised that you must go to doctor, you must look after yourself, so many things. So, that is how things work out. This is what is recognized as destiny by Vasistha, talking in Yoga Vasistha. Your prarabdha will work out.

Same Questioner: So Babaji, pain and suffering are two different things. Is that right, Babaji?

Babaji: Yes, you will feel the pain, then with that pain the mind imagines an illness, a trouble, then it gets panicked or fearful or painful. Then the mind suffers. It is the mind which suffers. Now, we understand why Ramana Maharshi said, “It is the mind which actually suffers”. This was asked by Swami Yogananda to Ramana Maharishi when he met him, “Why is the world suffering?” He asked, “Where is the suffering? The suffering is only in the mind”. When we listen to this sentence, it is not easy to understand what Ramana Maharshi meant. But today, I can understand what He meant actually.

Same Questioner: Thank you, Babaji. Baba, there has been a few people asking about achieving peace while in the world such as studying or working, being at work. Can we, by simply reminding ourselves to be at peace, should we always be doing that, reminding ourselves or simply should we just practice this meditation and the results will come?

Babaji: You see, if you want to be active, it is no problem. Whatever time is available, at least one hour. In that one hour, the day you understand that you simply have to watch all the one hour, then slowly when you would have become quiet, all the one hour you are just watching and you are not doing anything else. Otherwise, everybody sitting for meditation will be doing millions of things in their mind. Then it will be very, very helpful. This is one thing. Another thing, understand the main formula of the karma yoga; acceptance. You work. You do anything you want. But when the result comes, accept it. That is important. You accept, then you will have peace. “It’s okay”. Like something is happening, illness is coming and things may not be working. We want the ashram to be like this. We want many more students to come and it is not happening. We just keep quiet and accept it. Accepting that destiny. Like Swamiji also used to tell, “Only that much that has to come only will come. You have to keep quiet.” If one ashram comes, if you keep worrying for a hundred more ashrams, you will not have peace. You are grateful, “At least there is one ashram. We are not without ashram,” like that. For everything if you adopt in your life, anywhere you are working, then also your mind can recede and become quiet. Adjustment and management is what I have told about, these two words I have used. Those who know how to adjust and manage will always be happy.

Same Questioner: Babaji, when we have desires in the world, should we also accept that we have this desire? It is after all that habit within our own mind and are we really in control of that ourselves?

Babaji: One thing, if a desire comes, don’t simply go on daydreaming throughout your life. Work for that desire. If you really think it is worthwhile for you, you need that one, you work for that one. Then the result comes. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen. Accept it. Then the circle is finished. Instead you are worrying, you are thinking, you are imagining, you are dreaming, you are desiring. Then that converts into worrying, worrying, worrying, and you are neither here nor there. You are not putting efforts, and you are not achieving anything, but you are simply dreaming. Either you accept that you cannot work for that and keep quiet. Accept whatever is there, or you work for that, and then accept it as destiny.

Same Questioner: Understood, thank you, Babaji. Babaji, for some beginners who may be practicing meditation newly, they are starting out and they have not had any experience of the mind becoming peaceful yet. Maybe there is some time where lots of thoughts are coming. Babaji has already talked about this already, but what would Babaji say to encourage those to really stick it out and have that patience to keep going until they have experienced the peace descending?

Babaji: Remember the old saying, if the situation is tough, you become more tough. If today it has not happened, tomorrow it will happen. If not tomorrow, day after it will happen – have that faith in yourself, never lose confidence. It will happen. Think like this one. It has to come back. The mind has to become quiet because it is into imagination. The imagination, you should be able to stop it, because the imagined thing or the imagination itself cannot go forever. It’s impermanent. Because it is impermanent, it cannot go forever. Then if you try, something if you try, it must become quiet. Then you understand. If you become quiet, you will become quiet. That becoming quiet is what is the practice of watching. Just when we tell you, just watch in between eyebrows. Even if it is not possible in between eyebrows, don’t worry for a moment. Just watch the front portion when you close the eyes. If you slowly practice this, when your eyeballs become steady, stops into one place. Otherwise, it keeps moving, moving, moving, parallelly. That’s when you get bothered. So, you just watch and slowly on its own, it will start coming into one direction. So this practice slowly, skillfully, with all the patience, do it. Don’t be rushing, don’t be abrupt, don’t expect instant dramatic results. These are all make-believe in movies, and all such things. Real life is totally different. This world has its own law, its own rule. One wants to totally invade the other country and things doesn’t work. Then the person holds his head. Now he is trapped, the war goes on and on and on because everybody is getting involved. So that’s what happens. So here in your mind, it is you. There is no other person involved. So there is always a hope there. There is nobody else who can trouble you, create any obstacles, as long as you know how to adopt methods. That’s what Patanjali has told. When you sit for sadhana, you must adopt such methods so that either an enemy or a friend should not be able to trouble you. Both ways it’s important. Somebody who loves you so much, who needs you, will not allow you to sit for meditation, “Oh no, no, no, no, you should not become a monk, you should not go to ashram, you should not do this sadhana. You just be a normal person, you cannot be”. That would be a friend. Another is enemy. So, either way you should not be troubled. This is very important. Then only your sadhana can move smoothly. You mean business. You just take out my bag and we go to ashram. “I am going, that’s it”. If I expected that I need all my people should follow me to the ashram, it’s not possible. Everybody has their own way of life. I wanted it. I was in need and I just went and that was it. I am happy. So that is how things work for meditation also. You need happiness, you need peace, you need control over your mind. You need the focus of your mind to work in the world also. You can be a genius when you practice more and more such concentration when you want to work. So everyday practice one hour, you don’t have to practice ten hours or twenty hours, no need just now. So then also eventually you can achieve. So, like this, assure yourself, understand the need.

Always I have told very commonly, once again I will tell. If you realize there is a time bomb under your chair, you will not give up, thinking that “Oh, this is not for me. I cannot get up and run away”. You will not do that one. First thing you would like to do, priority, like to save your life. You will do anything that is necessary at that time. Like that, here also, you just need one hour. Understand that anything that you are ready to do to achieve peace in your mind. Just one hour every day, if you practice this. You need this one. This is what you have to understand. Like I have told, you all understand that you need food to sustain yourself. You will not wait for any Guru like me to come and give you a lecture, “Son, you need to earn your livelihood. You need to have some food otherwise how will you live?” Everybody will go out of way. Even the laziest person, if they have something, they need food. They cannot lie; they will die. They will do something to eat. Some tricks, something they will do it. Like that, you need to do something for your own peace because the other can never give. Nobody can give, no God, no Guru can touch and give peace. That’s what I have told, if anybody can wave their hand and give peace to the world, that day I will recognize it as a miracle. Not otherwise. Everybody should understand. Your own effort, your work can give you a miraculous effect within you. You can work for your own miracles.

Questioner No.2: Namaste Babaji, my question is, you have said that one hour of daily meditation is enough to experience a stress-free and happy life. So, what is the purpose of tapas and meditating for eight to ten hours at a stretch?

Babaji: If you want to go further, if you want to go for Self-Realization, then you have to do that much time of meditation. That’s what is known as tapas. Otherwise, if you are happy, you want to be in the world, you do one hour, then also you will have peace, some peace, and most of the time you will have control over your mind. Very quickly you can recover. So now it’s up to you, what you want to do.

Same Questioner: Okay, so part two of the question is, how can we succeed with our goals, for example, education and employment if we meditate in tapas?

Babaji: You don’t have to go to tapas if you want to get educated academically in this world. You just do one hour meditation. And you will remain more determined, you will gain more confidence, and you will be focused in your efforts. All these things you can achieve. Good.

Questioner No.3: Pranams Babaji, you said after Nirvikalpa Samadhi there is still an iota of ‘I’ thought. And finally, that ‘I’ thought…

Babaji: Not after, before.

Same Questioner: Oh, before. So that ‘I’ thought is also a residual ego that has to be dropped?

Babaji: Yes, that is recognized. Because always as long as that ‘I’ is there, individuality, imagination is likely to occur.

Same Questioner: And finally, that has to be dropped and that’s where the merger comes and then you get Sahaja Samadhi?

Babaji: Yes, it gets dropped when you are in that stage and when you keep quiet, go on.

Same Questioner: I have a couple of follow-up questions on this. So is the stage of the gap between the Nirvikalpa Samadhi and Sahaja Samadhi, it depends on the intense tapas or is there like a set time…

Babaji: You see, once you achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi, that is Sahaja Samadhi, you will remain there.

Same Questioner: And then the last part of the question I have is when we see little babies, children and infants, they are always blissful and happy and they seem to be at peace. So that means at the level of a child or a baby, they have very minimum thinking and they are always content.

Babaji: This is because they are not yet exposed to the world. Their brain is not yet grown or developed to that extent to start thinking. That’s why the innocence is there. And in our opinion as a Yogi, an innocence can be a risky factor because anybody can influence the innocent mind into getting involved into unwanted things. It needs to become matured also after being innocent. Now, you are a child and then you come into an age that you start noticing the world, getting attracted to the world, considering things of the world as yours, ‘my mom’, ‘my dad’, ‘my this, my that’, everything. After that when you do the actual sadhana, suppose you achieve a Self-Realization, you are a child again. The innocence of the child comes, but here there is no risk. Nobody can influence you into getting involved. Now you are unmoved. You know the truth what it is, the Ultimate Truth. So that difference is there. You are innocent, but you don’t know what the truth is, then you are at risk of getting influenced by something unwanted. So, like this it happens, this is the actual truth.

Same Questioner: Thanks, Babaji. Pranams.

Questioner No.4: Namaskar, Babaji. My question is, it’s a bit philosophical. In the saying ‘sat chit ananda’, ‘sat’ is actually existent, is what I am thinking. And in the saying ‘satyam jnanam anantam brahma’, ‘satyam’ is truth. Are they the same? Is it synonymous?

Babaji: Yes. Truth is the satyam, means sat is also the same substance that has substantial existence value. That is the truth, means.

Same Questioner: So it is the same?

Babaji: Same.

Same Questioner: So ananda is translated as peace then?

Babaji: Peace, actually peace.

Same Questioner: So why do we say…

Babaji: Chit settles into the sat, then it is ananda. Chita, as long as it’s your mind, when the thoughts are there, it has not settled into the sat.

Same Questioner: Okay, so the other thing is that when we are doing the meditation, when we start letting our attention go to the thoughts, then we get involved and we become the actor. We think things are happening, and I’m watching, like in a drama. So I need to dissociate myself from that identification with the world and the thoughts, right?

Babaji: Yes.

Same Questioner: And when I come out of meditation, it is kind of hard to be without that identification with the Real Self. So how do we… is it only through practice?

Babaji: Yes, only through consistent practice only. So now consciousness has become habitual. You have to reverse that habit back into the actual ‘sat’.

Same Questioner: Okay, so besides being a witness, we also have to dissociate ourselves from the ‘I, me, mine’.

Babaji: Yes, that is the trouble, me and then mine, then the trouble starts, and you start worrying.

Same Questioner: Okay. Thank you.

Questioner No.5: Namaste Babaji. I have really no questions, but I just wanted to share a little bit of my experience. I’m forty three years old. I met Shri Shivabalayogi Maharaj when I was twelve years old here in California, Santa Monica. After so many years of going through so much of life experience, He has come back more strongly into my life and also guided me to meet you. I sat and meditated in front of Him with my brother and parents back then in 1991 and I feel that while He was in this physical body and I’m in this body that opportunity to meet Him came and today He guided me to you. In this course of life, after getting married, I have a sixteen year-old son who’s on the autism spectrum and everything that we say, the Guru say, I have experienced it through my own son because he doesn’t use language to talk. But yet he is physically functional, he doesn’t have physical disabilities, but because of his language delays, he does not have the sense of ‘I, me, mine’, but a very present awareness. Sometimes it is hard when you have your own child as like a Guru reflecting that constantly. Sometimes I feel I take it for granted, having my own son. Also, my mind comes and says, how will he be independent in this world? I get this surrender – ‘He is here to help you be in that state of awareness.’ When I have an opportunity, I will introduce him to you and send his picture, but that sense of ‘I, me, mine’ is not there, but yet he is always in the present. He is always in the present.

Babaji: Good. One thing, I’m so happy to see you that you are very blessed to have been able to sit with the Guru Maharaj Shivabalayogi. You are very, very blessed and for your son as long as it is true that he may not have that ‘me or mine or anything’, how you can help is, try to keep him in such an atmosphere that his consciousness does not absorb any negativity as much as possible. That will be very helpful for the soul in its onward journey when this body goes eventually. So that way it will be your tapas also as a mother. You owed something to the soul, that’s why it has come as a son, and you work out, that will lead you also towards Mukti eventually. May Swamiji bless you always. Sometimes when we get a chance, we will try to see your son also, sometime. Our prayers and blessings are with you.

Same Questioner: And I look forward to meeting you when you come here to the US.

Babaji: Yes, definitely. You will know that on our website, the programs will be there. Or if you ever happen to come to India and visit the ashram you can try to see us. May you be blessed.

Same Questioner: Thank you so much Babaji.

End of Session

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