0:00 Intro
0:17 “Thinking will never give us the truth of who we are”
4:40 Is the consciousness of existence the same as pure awareness?
5:25 Knowing the Self
6:34 The difference between individual consciousness and pure consciousness
7:35 Pure love
10:25 Definition of meditation
13:31 How did Babaji imagine His Guru when Swamiji left His Body?
15:44 How should we think of our loved ones when they pass away?
16:17 In meditation are we losing the habit to think and visualise unnecessarily?
18:10 How do mantras work on the mind?
19:39 Was Babaji’s wisdom attained during His 5 years of tapas?
21:32 Always having a strong will to go towards the goal
23:59 As you progress on the path, does it become easier?
27:05 By just being present day to day and doing meditation practice – can that become tapas?
28:10 Can a yogi come back to the world?
29:56 How to overcome fears that come up when meditating
32:11 Are we exposed to our previous lives in tapas?

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 96
We Must Stop Thinking to Realize the Truth
Recorded: 24 April 2022 with US participants

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Okay, Baba you said that thinking will never give us the truth of who we are, only what we imagine.  Because thinking gives us thoughts and so and to know the truth, basically we must stop thinking to realize the truth?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, definitely.  To know the truth, because when you think, imaginations arise in your consciousness, making that consciousness into mind, converting that.  So, mind we recognize when there are thoughts and visions there.  Both visions and thoughts are all imaginations.  Well, these imaginations may be helpful in this world for sake of understanding, communication, to know this through intelligence, like all matter, we go on naming it – earth, moon, sun, planets, exoplanets, and this world, this, that name, mango; from mango to telephone to fan, everything.  These are helpful, but when we become preoccupied with this consciously, then we forget; that’s what has happened.  We have forgotten in fact about our real Self, how we exist as that infinite supreme consciousness and eternal entity.  So, because we are preoccupied watching this movie of this world, our own imaginations.  So that’s why all thinking must stop during meditation practice.  That’s why we tell, after asking you to concentrate your mind and sight in between eyebrows and just keep watching there we also tell, “Do not repeat,” means don’t repeat any name or mantra, nothing.  And “Do not imagine”, is another important instruction.  You think, you imagine; you imagine, you think, so thus you get involved as a chatterbox into the visions or thoughts that are in the subconscious state.  When they arise you just allow it to happen, then they will all dissolve one day, giving the mind to become totally silent.  When it is silent, it is the consciousness of existence.  That’s what you will discover.  And because your consciousness, mind is made up of both consciousness and energy – consciousness means wherever you apply, you become aware of that.  And if you keep quiet, you don’t apply to anything else, then automatically that consciousness settles into the Self; its attention also goes into the Self.  Thus, when you are practicing meditation, you are trying to see that your mind watches the mind itself.  So, when it’s purified, it is consciousness.  So that’s why all thinking must stop.  As long as thinking is there it can give only what it imagines.

Question:   Thank You, Baba.  I like what You’ve said in the past – that you can make your thinking stop, but you can never make yourself disappear.  You can only make what you imagined disappear.  You can’t make yourself disappear.  And that’s what You experienced in meditation.  Everything can stop but you’re still there.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, you don’t disappear.  That’s how the Self is determined as an eternal existence entity.  That’s when you go on stopping all thoughts, stop all imaginations, but you are always there.  That’s what I have told, amongst the millions of thoughts, the consciousness of existence is the reality which is not a thought, which is not an imagination.  It doesn’t come into existence just because of thinking.  Even if you don’t think anything, it will always be there.  And that is what is you.

Question:   Baba is the consciousness of existence the same as pure awareness or is it that same as pure consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, when it becomes pure consciousness, a pure awareness of the Self is there.

Same Questioner:   So, we know that…

Babaji Maharaj:   This is experienced when the body exists.  Without this body in the non-duality, this cannot be experienced.  That’s why a duality has come. Only in duality – that is like the theory of relativity type – then you can experience your own existence, when you step out of your real Self with that thinking or an imagination.

Question:   So attaining that state of pure consciousness is as far as you can go with the body and that state knows itself by itself just kind of intuitively without any second party there.  Usually knowledge, we imagine the knower and the known, in the process of knowing, but in that pure consciousness, it just knows itself kind of intuitively without any second.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, here both knower and the known disappear, only one single Self will exist, without any definition; not even the thought of I will be there.  All thoughts will disappear.  All thinking will stop.

Question:   But you will know you exist?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.

Question:   Without having the thought ‘I exist?’

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, that’s what is pure awareness.

Question:   Nice.  So Baba, the difference between individual consciousness and pure consciousness – just could You elaborate a little bit?  I think most people when they imagine consciousness, they think of knowingness or individual consciousness.  And how is it distinct from universal consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Though, at this stage, you feel that you are that consciousness, but eventually when the thought of ‘I’ also disappears, so there is no individual consciousness; that’s what you will realize.  You are one with that Supreme Consciousness which is ‘one single Self exists.’  As I told the knower and the known, seer and the seen all disappear.  Because there is no identification of what it is.  And there is nobody to identify what it is.

Question:   Could that state be called a state of pure love?  You know Baba, love seems to be the power that unites, that makes two things feel like it’s one.  And then that pure state, there’s only one?

Babaji Maharaj:   That’s the pure love where there is no expectation because there is no second entity there.  You are there.  That’s what you will realize.  That’s why a love is recommended which is not lust and greed. Not for any materialistic gain, not about the matter, not about the body – for the Self.  So that is the love.  So when there is love you won’t think twice, you won’t have anything else – just for sake of love.   Like, you go in quest of knowledge for sake of knowledge, you love for sake of love.

Question:   So could you say that just like pure consciousness or Universal Consciousness expresses itself in all the forms of consciousness, that pure love is also expressing itself in all the creation?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, that is happening.  But the problem is, this universe what we call, though that is the form of the ultimate truth only, but when you as the consciousness get to see this matter, this universe, different imaginations occur.  Because already people have identified with imagination and thus you get brainwashed.  You call a mango as a mango not a Divinity or don’t even keep quiet.  The moment you see you want to recognize, you want to analyze, you want to make a judgment; like either mango or fan or me or mine, not mine, good or bad, all these things.  You get involved into this, that ‘me and mine’ is the problem.  So that’s what has to be stopped.  Then you will realize the entire universe, everything is only Divinity because the Divine has expressed itself into different forms.

Question:   Yeah, I could see that Baba how soon as creation comes then there’s the love which unites but there’s also the hate which divides.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  If love is there, hate also will come.  Hate must not come, then that’s the pure love; only one exists.

Question:   So, would You define meditation again?  I mean, You’ve given different definitions and I liked them all. Maybe could You just refresh us on what is meditation?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, the one basic thing that I have told, ‘paying attention to’ – this is what is meditation; meditate upon, means pay attention – ‘your attention to’ – that is the thing.  Here, you meditate means, your attention has to go to yourself ultimately; for that purpose only you start meditating so that you can get rid of your meditation on to all imagined things.  All imaginations are drawing your attention of the consciousness.  So that means you are meditating on each and everything, “Oh this is this, this is world, this is happening.”  So all that has to be withdrawn.  All that meditation has to stop.  One single meditation where you just pay attention to yourself.  You become aware of yourself.  When you observe yourself, you automatically become aware of yourself.  And now, you are not able to observe yourself, you are observing all matters.  Except yourself, you are watching everything else.  So, watch; just watch means you just watch yourself.  That’s what it is. Just go on watching, watching.  You will eventually realize you are not watching anything other than yourself.

Question:   So, You could say the consciousness is looking, trying to discover itself with meditation.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.  When it discovers it becomes quiet, because it is itself.  All imagination stops there.

Question:   Yeah, You’ve said that the mind is looking for the peace that it enjoyed when it was silent in pure consciousness.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, suppose  I am in a solitude, I alone is there – even this body I’m talking.  So there is no need to name this as Shiva Rudra Balayogi, no need to claim that this is Self-Realized soul, nothing. Because there is nothing to claim because nobody else is there to recognize or call me so.  All ends.  When I’m with you, you are Agastya, I am Shiva Rudra Balayogi.  That’s how things come into existence for sake of understanding.

Question:   So, from the perspective of an enlightened mind, there’s only one Self and it’s expressing itself in all forms of consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, yogi will see the Self only everywhere, in everything as everything.

Question:   Baba, You were just the perfection of devotion to your Guru Shivabalayogi, and when He left his body how did You imagine Him?  How did that affect You?  How did You imagine Him after that?

Babaji Maharaj:   Because we saw Him in that body so closely, gave Him food and gave Him a bath, gave Him oil massage, got His scoldings, understood His love; everything was there.  So we missed that for a while, for a while. But quickly the mind recovered –  Where has He gone?  He’s in me, in you, everywhere; we will see Him everywhere through everyone.  So, He may scold me, He may love me, He may criticize me, He may appreciate me.  So all these things, it is only Swamiji.  So like that we started seeing Swamiji everywhere in everything as everything.  People loved us, we saw Swamiji, people criticized us, we saw Swamiji, people disliked us, we saw Swamiji – all Swamiji playing His games.  He cannot keep quiet.  Then I always spoke to Swamiji only, never spoke to anybody else.  So Swamiji You don’t have any other job.  Always Why do you keep irritating me?  Cannot You please keep quiet.  Like that I went on talking.  Well, very quickly we went into tapas and everything melted away.  Swamiji only remained – the ‘I’ melted earlier. 

So that beauty of devotion is definitely totally different. Even now also, sometimes I will keep fighting with Him, keep talking to Him.  So when something nonsense happens, “Swamiji, You cannot keep quiet, You have to do something nonsense.  You cannot allow me to live peacefully like this.  And it appears as if Swamiji is laughing and enjoying after irritating me.

Question:   Baba, how should we think of our loved ones when they pass away?

Babaji Maharaj:   The same way; you try to see everywhere in everything then you will enjoy.  You’ll see that loved one has not left you at all; it is there, remembering all the things.  With so many people behaving in so many ways, it should remind you of that loved one only.

Same Questioner:   Beautiful.

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  As we meditate, I know when we watch, thoughts come up and they tend to evaporate.  But from when You were talking about with Agastya, how one of the things we’re doing is to stop meditating on everything going on and just meditate on knowing ourselves, I’m wondering if on a broader scale maybe what’s happening is we’re losing our habits of the mind to think and visualize unnecessarily.  Could You comment on that?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  See, every moment is very precious that you have this physical body.  So while this physical body is available, while you have to live in this world, but the highest purpose should be to know yourself, to become aware of yourself, to merge within yourself.  So your attention is always on yourself.  Because this is one opportunity.  Like for example, this was one opportunity in a fortnight that you got that you could sit for 45 minutes with me watching you all the time.  So that must not be going waste and that’s why unnecessary thinking, unnecessary imagination is all waste of time and energy.  Need not be; just by thinking that, nothing is going to happen.  Instead, try to observe yourself, become quiet.  Whenever it’s not necessary.  Use that thinking power only to the need, when you have to live in this world to do any work, to achieve anything.  That’s it.

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, yes.

Question:   My question was – In Babaji’s presence, it is easy to get into meditation without any preliminary round or exercise of either breathing or mantra recitation, but I find in the daily practice, it is not that easy.  Especially chanting and mantras are very, very helpful; I find that they can saturate the mind.  So, my question is, is that also part of imagination, the sound vibrations?  And if they still the mind, they are helpful, but what role do they play?  How do they work on the mind?  Just want to understand more about mantras.

Babaji Maharaj:   They will help you to make the mind single-pointed, like instead of getting involved into millions of thoughts, you stick to one thought, one imagination; at least the mind remains single pointed, gathered.  That is how in bhakti marga, there is either a chant of a mantra or any such thing, or thinking about that will be helpful.  Eventually, by the Grace of your Guru you can abandon that and become totally silent.  Till then using this is no harm.  It will be helpful, the vibrations.

Same Questioner:   Thank You Babaji.  

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  Good to see you.  We were all attracted to You, we love You in our hearts and I’m attracted to the knowledge and the wisdom that You can share with us, and we ask questions about the nature of ourself, and questions of life and death that are very important.  And sometimes I feel that I don’t really know anything in terms of these really important questions; a lot of the things that I know are analytical details and facts and such.  And I’ve sometimes wondered, was it in Your five years of tapas that You attained this wisdom?  And if that’s so, do we have to enter into tapas to truly understand like what happens to us when the body dies?

Babaji Maharaj:   Many were taught by Swamiji.  And in those five years of tapas also that wisdom came by observing, keenly observing about the truth.  And now also, you see, generally I don’t think or plan anything.  When a question is asked, spontaneously the answer comes.  That coming from the source of origin, without me imagining as an individual of myself, or trying to think or anything, spontaneously simply comes.  Sometimes afterwards when I listen to my own talk or answering the question, I myself wonder, what a beautiful thing that has come out.  Who gives this answer? That’s the Divine.

Same Questioner:   Thank You, Babaji.

Question:   Thank You so much for these Babaji, they’re so helpful.  I have a question on – one of the recent images You sent out through WhatsApp for example, was knowing the need, so how that’s a spiritual secret to always recognize and know the need.  So is there any advice You can provide in terms of just always maintaining in the front of our mind and one thought or idea I have around that is it relates to sankalpa.  So, having a strong intention and keeping that always in your mind so that you’re reminding yourself of a strong will to go towards a goal?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, one thing like, as it happened to me only since childhood, like after listening to Adi Shankara’s Bhaja Govindam, though I lived in the world, I studied the classes, went to school, met friends also, was with siblings at home, everything, but the priority of thought was always about the death.  Every day at least hundred times that used to come to mind, “O God, I must know about the Self before this body comes to an end.  So, I must find my Guru. O Lord please help me; please bless me that I must not be reborn.  I must not see any scene, nothing, I must not be the knower or the known, just want to be in the Self.”  Like that every day, as I attended to other things, as I thought about other things, this was a priority.  So, if you understand the impermanence of the body, your own body, this world, any one thing to catch hold, and don’t allow your mind to forget that one, then it will keep waking you up, like caning yourself all the time.  So Swamiji to tell, “You tie a cane on your head, so when you are meditating, if you fall asleep, that will hit your head, then you will come back again.”  So like that, don’t forget, but don’t have to get panic, don’t have to worry about death.  Just remember that is the reality, truth of the physical body, then you will definitely go for it.  You will not give up.

Same Questioner:   Okay, Thank You.  And one other question too is as you progress on the path, is there a definite momentum that builds up that becomes easier?  You know, because it seems like there’s a lot of distractions of course in this world, a lot of desires, for example. Do you start to break through and rise above some of that and start to become easier in a way?

Babaji Maharaj:   Definitely. Definitely it will come one day. You remain determined, just understand the technique, go on watching, watching. As all other thoughts all decrease the taste will also pick up for meditating and also eventually you will dominate; you win when you become the master of your mind.

Same Questioner:   Thank You.

Question:   Baba.  I’d like to comment on that.  It seems very important that people really consciously make a choice to try to know the Self, the truth of the Self.  And in a lot of this knowledge, it just says over and over again, you’re not the body, you’re not the mind.  You’re the consciousness of existence.  Meditate and know that and find peace – your mind will settle.  That’s really something we have to remind ourselves over and over again – even just a fraction of the time trying to discover ourselves that we spend on trying to be a better musician or a better business person.  We devote so much time to things that are all going to vanish, eventually.  And if we just take the message and apply the message to take a little bit of time to know the truth of who you are, then you will find peace, or you’ll have a beautiful life, you know, so if they can just pinch yourself – like that cane, if you can just hit yourself with the cane, remind yourself that there’s, like you say, you’re more than you imagined, know your true Self. I don’t know, it’s perplexing to me that people seem to understand it.  I’m coming clean on this.  And yet, their life doesn’t reflect it.  You know, they go on and just absorbed in the minutiae of everyday life.  They don’t really take any time to get to know themselves as they really are.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, because people want to forget, and they get sucked into the world, they keep postponing, postponing.  But finally one day when they have to face, they are not ready.  So that’s what happens.  So that’s why it’s better to remember at least once, if not hundred times.

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  Two short questions.  One is we talking about tapas, we’re not able to leave this world and do as yogis, you know, carry out that tapas intensely.  But as part of our daily living, can we by just being present in the Divine moment to moment and doing this meditation focusing between the eyebrows, keeping our mind clear, can that also become our tapas?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, if you understand the technique, and take care that your mind accepts and becomes quiet when the results come in life – it should not go into brooding. All the time don’t keep thinking any negative things; just once and then forget about it, forget the past.  So then a tapas can happen.  And if your mind recedes, then that awareness of the Self can come.  So that is how it will happen.  You have to take care of this.

The next question?

Same questioner:   Yeah.  Since Your Holiness mentioned about Your desire was not to be reborn.  But in the Buddhist tradition the Bodhisattva takes a vow – you’ve reached nirvana, but you take a vow to come back again and save sentient beings lifetime after lifetime.  But there’s a difference between the two, isn’t there?  One you don’t come out of compulsion, samsara, but free choice?

Babaji Maharaj:   One truth is that the ultimate truth what we call as Divinity, it will take care of its creation.  It can come back as Shiva Rudra, or as a Shiva Bala, whatever it is. We just didn’t want to be born again to get involved in the samsara, that’s all.  Whether we come or we do not come, when the loka kalyana has to happen, welfare of world has to happen it will happen. So that will be taken care, so that’s no problem.

Question:   Baba, related to that – my understanding is that once a person attains nirvikalpa samadhi that there is no longer an individual to will anything so He couldn’t will or make a decision to come back, only the Divine could spontaneously do something like that?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, okay – some are classified informations Agastya.

Same Questioner:   Okay, next question?  

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  I also wanted to ask about these fears which appear.  Now, when I’m meditating, it comes so much, because my mom is also in process of departing.  And everything is churning, you know; it’s so difficult to stay focused.  And also during the day, I’m pulled by this sadness and I just wanted You to tell me what kind of imagination should I take?

Babaji Maharaj:   Pray. Pray to the Divine to protect you, to help you to overcome this fear, and chant some name of the Divine, name of Sri Rama, like Hanuman always chanted and He has assured anybody who chants will overcome all types of fear.  God will be with you. God will protect you. Everything will be all right.  Don’t worry.

Same Questioner:   Thank You, Thank You.  And I wanted one last thing.  I know that we have to go, I just wanted to say, for example, when I’m meditating and when I have.. sometimes I have nothing, I have emptiness.  But then the thoughts come and take me with them.  And then I repeatedly hear Your voice, like, ‘Just watch, just watch’.  And I feel like even if this is imagination, it’s a useful imagination.

Babaji Maharaj:   It is useful, and be feared.  That’s the command.  Your commander is asking, Just watch!’ – be scared (laughs). Very good.

Same Questioner:   It is very helpful.  It gives me courage.  Thank You so much.  

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  In one of the articles that I read recently, it said when Lord Buddha was meditating, He either had the visual experience or the journey took Him to all the previous births through living as animal, almost to the point of even a single cell transition that He was witnessing.  And I remember even in Your own tapas experience book, it said something to the effect that during one of the experiences that was there, that you registered, was that you had the visual experience of an accident or some kind of a calamity.  So is that we are made to watch during the journey of the mind back to the source during this meditation

Babaji Maharaj:   It is like a workshop; any such visions come and then that will disappear.  To say that it is all over, not going to come back, must not take it seriously in any way.  So that will end in the mind.  The mind will give up then it becomes more purified, more purified; all the manifestation, any visions come and then they disappear simply, quietly. If we do not react, that’s what the Master teaches; “Don’t react to any vision or any manifestation.  Just watch.”  So that is very important.  We should not go into analyzing or considering the previous birth.  It was there or not, that’s over, done.  This body is here, an opportunity to know the Self.  That’s what one has to utilize.

End of Questions and Answers

Babaji Maharaj now concludes the session.

   To all of you beloved Americans, all my love and blessings to you all.  Appreciate your participation.

End of Session