SHIVA RUDRA BALAYOGI

Dedicated to the lotus feet of the divine guru Shivabalayogi Maharaj

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We have forgotten who we really are – online Q&A, No.152

Recorded on 3 September 2023 with US participants

0:00 Introduction
0:11 Who are we, why do we not know who we are and how do we discover who we are?
7:19 Can self-enquiry lead to awareness of the Self?
13:07 What is detachment and why is it important?
15:15 Awareness of ‘I am’ without thoughts being there
19:18 Can you practice detachment?
23:30 As you practice meditation does detachment come?
24:36 Requirements when looking for a guru
28:05 What Babaji wanted in a guru
30:28 How do we become aware of supreme energy and that energy and consciousness are one and the same thing?
36:08 Are all dreams just imaginings or can the divine guru give darshan in dreams?
39:54 Experiencing fear during meditation when mind becomes more concentrated
42:02 What gives us authority to pray for others?
43:43 Will it be difficult for a householder to do meditation and achieve Self- Realisation? [In Hindi]
45:52 [In English]
46:56 South Indian temple Chidambaram teaching the secret about consciousness beyond form and formlessness

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 152
We Have Forgotten Who We Really Are

Recorded: 03 September 2023 with US participants

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   So, Baba, going back to Shiva’s comment to Swamiji, to Your Guru and Your fundamental teaching which is basically we suffer and remain unfulfilled because we don’t know the Self.  And the problem is, we’re in the habit of identifying ourself with our body or what appears in our mind.  So, You’ve repeatedly said we must silence our mind, we must renounce our mind to know the truth of who we are and find liberation.   Could You address that again, please?

   Who are we?  Why don’t we know who we are?  How do we discover who we are?

Babaji Maharaj:   Consciously we need to be aware of what we are, where we stand.  You see, just first thing – as I have told, amongst millions of thoughts, you have one thing which is the consciousness of existence.  You feel always you exist, but currently, you are unaware of what is that consciousness of existence.  So instead of the actual truth, your consciousness has shifted onto the physical body due to its touch with the brain, which it is holding as… registering all the reflections of the brain and thus, hundreds and millions of thoughts are being created within the consciousness, making it to be known as the mind.  That means, in other words, you are preoccupied with your own imaginations, thus you are unable to be aware of your real Self; how you exist, in what way you exist.  That is the reason. 

So that is the reason also, first step to silence the mind is important and this silencing is not an easy path as we say; it requires a consistent practice, adopting the right technique.  Technique here means you need to adopt a technique that mentally you are able to be quiet; you don’t think, then the thoughts will all reduce.  In the beginning, thoughts will appear, visions will appear.  Watching them a person would not know if those thoughts and visions are there because of one’s own imaginations, creativity.  This mixture has happened because since time immemorial, consciousness has acquired habit by turning itself into what we call it as mind. So thus, it has become totally preoccupied since time immemorial about its own imaginations, considering them as a rightful, true fundamental existence – truth – whereas it is not so.  That is why we also tell – mind cannot give the truth because it gives only what it imagines.  When it imagines and tells, that need not be the truth.  Actual truth is when that mind stops all its imaginations. When it regains the form of consciousness and when that consciousness is not into any type of imagination, it has become totally silent, that existence is the truth of your own real Self. That is not the physical body you will realize. It will be revealed to you because the consciousness will shift back to itself at that time.  So, your effort should be to silence the mind.  The technique is given to you – gently closing the eyes, you have to concentrate your mind and sight.  Mind is you yourself – concentrate yourself in between eyebrows, but when you use the eyeballs, fixing the eyeballs, that is one of the strongest sensory organs that can be very helpful to you to hold the mind into single-pointed focused attention; this becomes possible.  But in the beginning it could be awful, but as you understand the technique and just go on watching with some patience – just keep quiet, just do not analyze… So that’s what the mind has, the ego, analyzing, judgment effects.  These three things if it can be stopped – if ego is stopped it will not analyze. If it doesn’t analyze as there is nothing for it to judge. If it doesn’t dare judge it will become quiet and silent.  

Then, because mind is made up of both consciousness and energy…  Consciousness means wherever you are able to apply your consciousness you become aware of that existence.  So here, if that consciousness turns to itself, then its attention is turned and it is applied to itself, then it becomes aware of itself, what it is, how it exists as the infinite form.  Because to the naked eyes of this physical body it would appear as just nothing; that’s what we have always imagined – a certain void space or a place, we call it as just nothing, but it is not simply nothing; it is supremely conscious of its own existence.  This is what is known as samadhi, when you achieve total stillness of the mind, and then that secret will be revealed, but till then you have to practice, you have to dedicate, you have to be disciplined and you need to have patience, and then you practice.

Question:    Baba, so we’ve talked a lot about meditation and focusing, silencing the mind that way.  What about self-inquiry where you basically contemplate or inquire about the impermanence of everything; thoughts are coming and going constantly, can that lead to an awareness of the Self? Everything is coming and going, but the watcher or the knower or the witness is always present, and so you start to realize that some things are here all the time, although it’s not my thoughts; those change all the time.

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, you practice meditation side by side and then sometimes when you inquire, you will be able to find the right answer.  You will be able to inquire in the right possible way without giving rise to unnecessary thousands of thoughts.  Otherwise, in the beginning without meditating you try to inquire, you will start thinking and then you can get confused because just now the consciousness is totally shifted on to the body.  It is in touch with the brain and whenever you try to feel yourself, you will feel the body as yourself.  That’s what the entire body is engulfed with this consciousness of existence.  Though the consciousness of existence is there, you are unable to find out what is that consciousness, where is it arising from.  For that only this meditation.  Different teachers might have used different terminologies.  Like Ramana Maharishi uses, “Keeping the eyes closed, watch from where that ‘I’ is arising.”  So, then also you have to narrow down to focusing your attention on to that consciousness of existence by giving up all other thoughts and analyzations.  Only then that ‘I’, you can concentrate on that one; will be possible.  But many people simply fail to concentrate in any method they try to use till they do not understand what are they supposed to achieve, what are they supposed to do; these two things are very important.  So, like you want to bake a bread, you should know what are you supposed to do and when you do that one what is it that you can achieve, so then you can find out, “Yes, have I achieved the baking of the bread; has the bread been baked properly or not?”  So, like this you need to know.  First you need to know you have to silence your mind, so that’s what you practice keeping quiet; you practice keeping quiet.  That’s what usually in ancient times students used to go to a Master, Self-realized Master, live with him for some time, for many years.  A first thing that the gurus would undertake to teach them was to lose ego.  They would make the student do all sorts of work, all odd-type of work.  They would think that “I want to get Self-realized, but the Guru is asking me to do this dusting, do this cleaning.” But whoever quietly did it without analyzing surrendering to the Master as a service, their minds recedes very quickly, smoothly and then when the meditation is taught, they will be easily able to catch the point, catch the finer point what they are supposed to do – they just have to be keeping quiet.  That’s what watching in between eyebrows; you just watch, but people start thinking, “I watch in between eyebrows, then what?”  Nothing – you just watch, you become quiet, that’s it.  So, these things need to be understood.

Question:    Yeah, I could see Baba, like in the self-inquiry, if you get into some kind of mental dialogue with yourself, then it’s taking you away from it, but in my experience, maybe from so many years of meditating or just silence, there’s this recognition that this is arisen and it’s impermanent and then you let go of that.  The mind doesn’t want to hold on to that anymore and so it goes back to just wanting to be silent, be still.  Whereas before, you get into analyzing and more concepts and more thoughts and you get stuck to those ideas, whereas now the ideas come up and you just let go of them; you’re not interested in them.

Babaji Maharaj:   Exactly, exactly. That’s why I said, if you meditate and then side by side occasionally you enquire, that enquiry will be short and quickly you will understand also, you will become aware of the truth and then you will let go of that enquiry, and you will become quiet. 

Question:   Yeah, you’re not trying to get any knowledge or information; you’re just trying to be aware, go back to that awareness. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, exactly. 

Question:   Yeah, you’re trying to get rid of the dialogue, you just want to be in that Self. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah. You just try to think so that you can get rid of thinking. 

Question:   Thinking to stop thinking.  Okay, Baba what’s detachment and why is it important? And can we practice detachment?  Is that something you can kind of wake yourself up and go, “Okay, that’s enough”?

Babaji Maharaj:   One important thing is understanding – whereas everybody knows this point, this is not a new thing, yet they keep forgetting, they don’t want to remember; it could be panicking for them – the impermanence of the entire universal appearance including our own physical body through which we are thinking as me and myself and mine, if this understanding sits firmly with a firm conviction, then also this consciousness can start shifting.  We will try to observe from where this ‘I’ is coming.  If this body is going to go away, “When the body goes, what will happen to me?  Was I simply born with this body or this body is me?   When the body dies, I’m no more, not going to exist in any way?”  Like this, the inquiry can lead you towards that consciousness of existence.  So that is what the ancient sages did.  When they tried to inquire like this, then they also pondered and understood, “If we need to know the truth, we need to observe.  If we need to observe, it has to happen through our own consciousness.  So, if our own consciousness needs to observe, it should not be involved with any other thoughts, with any other imaginations.  By intelligence application, they understood and they got into the job of just observing.  That’s what is just watching.  So, like this, also a person can inquire, try to understand quickly, and as quickly as possible, just get into the point of watching. 

Question:   Baba, when you’re unconscious, then you’re not aware of your existence.  But you can be conscious, but not be thinking anything.  But if you’re unconscious, you’re not aware of anything going on in the mind, but yet you can become…  if you’re unconscious, you’re unaware that you exist, at least unaware of that ‘I am’ part of the existence.  But you can have that ‘I am,’ but not have any thoughts in your mind, any ideas or concepts.  So, at least you could be one.  Even if not all those other thoughts you can at least be one. But going back to what You were just saying about being just the witness.  Even that ‘I’ is something you recognize as outside; it’s a thought or it’s in that category with other thoughts and therefore it’s outside of you.  Could You explain that?

Babaji Maharaj:   Exactly.  I will tell the truth today.  No need to get confused, anybody.  As long as this ‘I’ thought is there, one is able to experience about themselves as an eternal entity.  Once this thought of ‘I’ also disappears, it is neither consciousness nor unconsciousness.  Why I am telling this?  Usually when we talk of unconsciousness, we talk of unconscious – you become unconscious of this world, you become unconscious of your body and become unconscious of surroundings; this is not like that.  Neither consciousness nor unconscious means, you totally just settle in yourself and there is no imagination, no thought of the ‘I’ also, all duality has totally finished.  Then there is nothing to be aware of, actually. 

Question:   Nothing to suffer. 

Babaji Maharaj:   You are there and you are not there. And there is nothing that you have to be aware because you are not separate from yourself.  Now you are one with yourself.  So that existence is such an amazing wondrous of wonder, hair-raising effect when the merger happens.  That needs to be experienced.  Do not try to imagine in the mind.  You might get confused or panicked even, sometimes.  Know that you will always exist eternally; have a firm conviction.  You will experience this when you practice meditation, when your mind becomes silent.  Just before that ‘I’ disappears, you will experience and get convinced that you, that Self is an eternal existence, not at all connected to the birth and death of the body, even beyond the birth and death of the body, whether this universe is there or it disappears, anything happens or nothing happens, you are there.  Be convinced.

Question:   So, Baba, that is a state of absolute contentment and peace as You described it?

Babaji Maharaj:   Exactly. 

Question:   That means there is just no wants.  There is nothing to want.  There is no lack.  There is nothing to gain. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Nothing. Nothing to gain or nothing to lose.  It is neither nothing nor something. 

Question:   So, going back to detachment.  Can you practice being detached?  Is there is something you can do?  A lot of times things come up in life and you get sucked into them and you don’t want to get sucked into them, you get emotional and you might get angry or you it could go the other way too, you could be happy.  But you get sucked into them.  Is there some way to be detached when you get pulled into things?

Babaji Maharaj:   When you slowly start practicing detachment, gradually you gain a better wisdom also to reason out also.  Your confusion all decreases, your mind becomes more and more quiet and now you are detached because anything can happen any moment.  “It is okay, no problem”.  So that is detachment, if it happens.  Until it doesn’t happen, let me keep going.  “I will work.  I will try to achieve something.  I will try to do this thing.  If it happens, it’s no problem.”  That is the old Swamiji example.  “Be like a soldier.”  When he goes to the battlefield he knows, either he will do it or he will die.  “I will do it.  If I don’t do it, I will die.  That’s no problem.”  Both are equally okay by him and he is not confused.  Like that in this world also, in the life also, as everything is impermanent, but we don’t have to hold to our head and sit in a corner.  Simply keep smiling and remain detached.  “It happens, happens.  I will try.  I keep working.  If it doesn’t happen, no problem.  Nothing will happen to me.  That peace is always there.”  Like that, practice detachment slowly.  And then like for example, something happens, you might feel agitated, irritated.  It might annoy you, anything.  Then you reason out.  “What is the use of just getting annoyed in the mind?  If I get annoyed, my mind is the casualty.  I am losing my peace.  I don’t have to lose my peace.  If at all I have to attend to him, I will attend.  If I can ignore that person, I will ignore.  If I can ignore this situation, I will ignore.  Otherwise, if I need to attend, I will attend.”  Do either of the things, no problem.  But for that reason, you don’t have to lose your peace and lose your energy, waste your energy.  Like this type of reasoning, maturity also comes to the person. 

See, we will have to fight if somebody attacks our Institution, our Ashram, we will have to fight.  But that fight doesn’t mean that I keep banging my head and I kept losing my temper, I keep shouting, I waste my energy.  No need.  I can remain composed.  Plan the strategy, work out and we will defend.  Everything will be there.  But simply, I am not losing my energy.  I am conserving my energy.  I will not allow the energy to be consumed unnecessarily, drain out.  Like this, the maturity comes.  You will not be confused whenever you face this type of situation in life.  It comes to everybody because life is a mixture.  It’s not a bed of roses for anybody.  Everybody will have to struggle.  Irritative situations will arise, things which can annoy you will arise.  But at that time, you need to use your wisdom.  Simply by getting annoyed and to go on getting annoyed, you will not help anybody.  You are losing your peace and your energies.  Instead, try to maintain your composure.  Work out a strategy.  Plan how to defend yourself, how to change the situation.  Like that, you can always plan.  So, like this, you can practice detachment so that you don’t get affected by the things of this world or any existence or anything that happens.  So that is what is detachment.  You are always smiling.  “No problem.” 

Question:   So, Baba, as you meditate and become more aware of being that consciousness of existence instead of just what’s in your mind, is it easier to be detached? 

Babaji Maharaj:   That awareness is always there when you are in the body.  So then, suppose you are the owner of the factory.  And the gate, watchman comes and starts using abusive things.  “O, I will take over the factory now.  You are no more the factory owner.  You are only a watchman.”  You are not going to be affected.  You know that you are the owner.  And that fellow is going to be the watchman always.  “If he keeps shouting, he is wasting his energy.  I don’t have to waste my energy.”  Just ignore him or remove him from the job, send him away and keep somebody else.  That’s it.  So, like that, you are matured and you will be able to act upon without losing your temper, without losing your energy, your peace, composure, everything. 

Question:   Baba, when You were looking for a Guru before You met Swamiji, You had some requirements.  I think there was like three requirements or something that You’ve mentioned.  Could You go over those?  What they were and why those were important to You?

Babaji Maharaj:   One is, you need to be sincere, sincere of what you want.  Do you want the Ultimate Truth about yourself, spiritual truth?  Then you will not compromise with any other type of Guru, you will automatically look for such Guru only. And you will pray to the Divine.  The Divine will grace upon you.  You will be led to that Guru or the Guru will come to you, either way.  There is no such one formula definition.  Many people may talk that the Guru will come to you or you will be led to the Guru.  Both are same.  Sometimes it may happen that the Guru will come to you or you will go to the Guru.  You will come to know about the Guru.  Anything can happen.  There is no such one sentence definition for these things, but first thing you need to be sincere.  So once if it is appealing, if the teachings are appealing, then just follow the teachings first.  Don’t expect anything else.  Many people go.  They want to be endorsed that they are already realized, “O, then this Guru is really wonderful.”  They want to be given a VIP treatment, all these things.  No need, just go sit in a corner and learn from the Guru and do your sadhana.  When you don’t need anything, you are in contentment, you are happy.  You don’t expect anything from the Guru, just the teaching.  Then you will be led to the right Guru.  If the teachings are not suitable, if the Guru is teaching something else other than what is the sadhana, they will be telling that “If you do like this, this type of miracles can happen.”  So, you will reject and go, “This is not the Guru for me.”  And in fact, finally the Divine’s grace will definitely lead you to such Guru.  When the right time comes, you will get it.  Somewhere you will get it definitely; all the time it is available.  Even today, in this modern world of science, technology, a right Guru is still available, if only you are sincere and you don’t have any other expectations, any other, nothing.  And that Guru also must not have any other expectation except your sincerity, your attention when he teaches.  That’s what a Guru demands when he teaches.  When I am answering, only one thing I will demand from all the 100 people, 80 people that you are all there, your attention to me what I am trying to convey.  That is the best donation.  And then you do sadhana.  That is the best donation.  When you achieve, that is the final donation that you can give me in reality.  That’s what I will expect.  That’s what Ashtavakra demanded from King Janaka.  “I need you to pay attention.  If you don’t pay attention and listen to my command, it’s not my problem.  It’s your problem.  First you do that one, then I will give you Self-realization.  To all of you also sitting here [laughs].

Question:   That was beautiful.  There were some other things too, though, that You wanted from a Guru.  Like when You met Swamiji, He embodied everything you wanted in a Guru.  When He was Self-realized, He was able to teach You. 

Babaji Maharaj:   First thing in my case, I simply fell in love with Him.  Once I fell in love with Him, never bothered whether He was realized or not realized.  That was one thing.  And in the biography book itself, the message He conveyed.  First after the twelve-year tapas, “Humanity have forgotten about themselves.  They need to do sadhana and become aware of themselves.”  When I read this, “Aah, This is a Self-realized Master.  He is conveying the right message.  He is not telling anything else.  He is not telling that He will give us all Self-realization.  He is not telling that all of your Self-realized.”  He said, ‘You have to do sadhana, get Self-realized.’” That told my consciousness, “This is the right Master.” I remembered that point.  Then when I saw Him, I fell in love next, never bothered anything else.  And luckily, He was Self-realized.  Whatever He said, I just went on doing it, never analyzed, never bothered, never got annoyed.  So that helped me, my mind to recede.  And as I became quiet and quiet, I enjoyed happiness within. That peace, composure of peace.  And meditation also became easy – six to seven hours in those twenty years, and then finally, that five years, simply I had to be sitting, whatever appeared.  That final residual needed to be removed, vanish. That ‘I’ had to vanish. Simply for that only I had to wait, and done!

Question:   Thank You, Baba.  We’ll take some more questions.  There’s a number of hands up there. 

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  So, Baba, You’ve explained that the mind is made up of consciousness and energy and the way to become aware of our true existence, how we exist as the immortal soul is by bringing our mind to a complete stop.  Here’s my question.  How do we become aware of supreme energy?  How do we become aware that energy and consciousness are not two different, but actually the same thing? How does that experience happen for us?  Because we’re always talking about consciousness, but we’re not so much talking about energy. So that’s my question. 

Babaji Maharaj:   So, when you practice meditation, slowly as you get rid of all thoughts and visions the quietness comes and then you understand, “This is the consciousness which was thinking and this is the thing which is ‘I am,’ and energy also is in this, that is why it was able to think.”  When it spins, you realize this is because of the energy that is spinning.  That is how like in science also, as everybody talks of energy, when they observed, some genius people observed, “O, this is happening because of the presence of energy.  So, this engine is running because of the presence of energy.  These waves of the ocean are arising because of the energy working there.”  In the same way, you will be able to observe and realize your consciousness was arising to think because of the presence of energy.  If the consciousness became composed, energy also settled there peacefully.  So, that is how you will become aware.  The consciousness and energy are inseparable.  They both are same.  This is the highest realization that happened to the sages, and to us also.  Anybody who practices, one can realize the presence of energy along with the presence of consciousness; they both are same.  Whereas, through other means like in science and other ways, we are able to observe only the presence of energy, from naked eyes, from outside when we observe, we are unable to observe the presence of consciousness also there. 

Same Questioner:   So, it would seem, Babaji, the conscious awareness of existence comes first.  And then the awareness that energy and consciousness are none other than the same comes second. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.

Same Questioner:    And then one can experience consciousness and energy together as one without any movement, without any spinning, without any waves, without any wind, is that true?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, this is a very good question because consciousness can be experienced only through the consciousness by the consciousness.  No other thing can experience the consciousness here; that is important.  That is how in meditation, when the mind regains the form of consciousness, it experiences itself as that and it also experiences that energy within itself.  Then it realizes the Self is inseparable combination of consciousness and energy.  That was how I also could tell in my talks, mind is made up of consciousness and energy. 

Same Questioner:   So, a Supreme Energy can be experienced also in its standstill state, not necessarily in a movement of waves or particles or anything?  It also can be experienced in its standstill state just like consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you see, here as you go on meditating, you will experience both consciousness and energy because thoughts are coming, visions are coming.  And then that is when you experience the energy’s presence also; the thoughts are able to come only because of the presence of energy.  In other words, consciousness is able to think only because of the presence of energy in itself.  If there was no energy, it wouldn’t have been able to spin or think or become creative.  So, thus, as you become quiet and quiet and quiet, you have already experienced both consciousness and energy.  Now when the merger happens, just before the merger, you realize now where this is being sucked is the Supreme Energy or the Supreme Energy has the Supreme Consciousness because the Supreme Consciousness definitely has the Supreme Energy.  That is how this universe has been created.  That realization will occur. 

Same Questioner:   So, the thinking and the perception of energy dissolve and disappear together and that’s witnessed as you merge, is that true?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, exactly.  That’s what will happen. 

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  I wanted to ask Baba about a special experience I had last week.  on Shravana Poornima, on the full moon night, after doing aarathi for Babaji and Swamiji and going to bed, I fell into a dream fairly quickly and I wanted to know if all dreams are just imaginings, or if the Divine Guru can actually give Darshan during a dream because in this dream, for the first time ever in my life, I came back to my room and opened my door and to my surprise, Swamiji was sitting there on the bed and I’m having trouble even getting this out right now because it’s very emotional for me. And just the way that He embraced me, it was like a hug that when you say you fell in love with somebody, I finally knew what that feeling meant.  It was like a hug that you get from someone you’re in love with minus all romantic feelings or anything like that and it stuck with me, and all His mannerisms were the same, His laugh, His giggle.  I sat there on the floor and He was sitting on the bed and just kind of talked for a while and at one point He even asked me to massage His arm that was giving Him a bit of trouble.  And is this just my memories from us talking or is this….

Babaji Maharaj:   In fact this is a very profound experience; not necessary that always it has to be just imagination, because the mind is connected with the Origin, the Divinity, the Divine Guru, whatever that Swamiji is now, merged with the Self.  If the dream is coming from the source, it will be more profound, very strong influence on your consciousness and you will feel that experience, that vibrative experience which can be very transforming for you.  So that is when this is known as a very profound experience coming from the Origin, not just arising from the mind.  So, that is also is possible.  That also I have explained many times so I would request everybody not to get confused with my imagination thing.  I have always told imagination is not an ordinary thing; it is the creativity.  When the creativity happens, your mind is closer to the Divinity.   That’s what you can understand. 

Same Questioner:   Does the full moon or Poornima have any type of effect on that because from reading your story and others it seems that the Divine makes itself more known on that day… 

Babaji Maharaj:   My Guru Swamiji used to tell, for yogis, the full moon day, Poornima is always very auspicious.  Only for other tantric type of people who are not very highly spiritual they look for the no moon day types.  “Yogis and spiritual things always happen on a full moon day, Poornima,” He used to tell this. 

Same Questioner:   This is why I thought that it was just a little more than a regular dream and how it stuck with me since then very much.  And thank You for clearing that up for me.  

Question:   I was just wondering when I have come close to experiencing just silence of the mind and separation from the body, I feel like I’ve gotten there momentarily but there’s been bits of fear that have pulled me back, like fear that I’m not coming back or that… it’s very foreign from my day-to-day existence and the fear is sort of keeping me from staying there, maybe going all the way there.  And I was just wondering if You could speak on that. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Actually, nothing to worry.  These experiences can occur in deeper meditations when your mind becomes more concentrated and gets cleansed up of all its imaginations, thoughts and visions.  So, it can try to detach from the brain’s reflections – so that is when one is likely to experience as if it is an out of body, whereas the space is all-pervaded type, the consciousness is simply all pervaded, so you don’t have to fear for any such thing; you will come back.  If necessary, if any of that fear occurs, immediately you can open the eyes, take some sip of water.  Keep it with you in a glass nearby and drink half a glass of water.  You will feel normal.  The consciousness will come in touch with the brain.  So, this is a glimpse of experience; you must not stop here, you must meditate more and more so that one day when total silence is achieved then you will be able to achieve the real Self-awareness within yourself without getting any fear of the body.  The body will be there and you will come back to the body. 

Question:   I want to know about prayer.  I mean what gives me the authority, nobody does, to pray for anyone else?  I mean, I was thinking why would I pray for any one?  I mean I want to, I try to, but I’m thinking I’m not a Guru or anything, why should I have that responsibility?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, anybody can pray to God.  You don’t have to be a Guru to pray to God.  First thing that you understand.  So, when you pray there is no harm, nobody will blame you, nothing will fall upon you.  You can always pray for anybody; you will get connected to Divine.  At least your mind will become concentrated and more peaceful.

Question:   Pranaams Babaji, saastang namaskaars aapko.  Babaji, may I speak in Hindi?   

Babaji Maharaj:   Okay, if you are not comfortable.  Because if you could speak in English others could understand otherwise we will translate.  You speak in Hindi, no problem.

Same Questioner:   Babaji grihasta ashram mey, grihast Jeevan mey thoda mushkil ho jaata hai kyunki bahut saare jimmedaarian aa jaati hai.  Tho, mai jaan-na chahta hoon ki Self-Realization yah liberation, kya itni mushkil ho jaata is mey?  Grihasta Jeevan mey thoda mushkil hota hai yah… [Spoken in Hindi]

[Babaji, in the family life, it becomes a little difficult as there are responsibilities, so I want to know if Self-realization becomes very difficult when one is in the family life?]

Babaji Maharaj:   Actually, bahut mushkil nahin hain.  Simply, har thara method adopt karey, karm yog, dhyan yog, dono adopt karey.  Aap work karte jaaye.  Aise har karya ko samjhe, chaaye baccho ko dekhbaal karey yah patni ko, yah grihasti ka, other responsibilities, consider as if you are doing a service to God.  Sabme Bhagwan ko dekhne lage.  Aur jo kuch bhi result aata hai, usko accept karte jaaye, “Bhai, Bhagwan ka iccha tha.  Aisehi hona tha, koi baat nahi.  Mai apne duty, karm kartey jaoo, jo unki iccha.”  Phir Bhagwan sey praathna karey “aapke iccha jaisa ho, par hamara wisdom ko inspire karey ta ki mai sahi rastey par chalte rahoo.”  Tho sab kuch smoothly aasan ho jaayega.  Jab bhi time miley, aadha gante bhi time miley, baithke thoda dhyan bhi Karley, Guru ka smaran karey, tho bahut smooth ho jaayega.

[Actually, it is not that difficult.  Simply, adopt every method (taught) – karma yoga, dhyana yoga.  Adopt both.  Keep working.  Understand that all work, be it taking care of children, duties to wife, family responsibilities, consider it as a service to God.  You will see God in everyone.  And whatever result comes, accept it as “It was God’s will.  It was to happen that way. No problem. I will continue to do my duty, whatever be His will.”  Then pray to God “Whatever be Your wish, but please inspire my wisdom so that I go on the right path.”  Then everything will go smoothly.  Whenever you get time, half an hour, sit down and do a little meditation, remember the Guru, then it becomes very smooth.]

Same Questioner:   Nahi, Baba, jab sey deeksha liye thab sey dhyan kar raha hoon, chaahe kuch bhi ho jaayey, dhyan tho mujhe karna his karna hota hai, chaaye iskeyliye kuch bhi karna padey, saarey kaam chodh deta hoon, puja paat key liye bhi.    Lekhin yeh duvidha thi ki thoda mushkil ho jaata hai ki grihasta ashram mey thoda mushkil ho gaya.

[No, Baba, since I received initiation, whatever happens, I do my meditation and worship.  But I have this dilemma that it becomes difficult when in the family life.]

Babaji Maharaj:   Agar, already grihast ashram mey hai tho uskey baarey mey chinta nahi karna.  Grihast ashram sey bhi mukti mil sakti hai.  Koi chinta nahi.  Hari cheez mey Bhagwan hai, bus.

[If you are already in the family life, then do not worry about it.  You can get liberation even when you are a householder.  There is God in everything; that’s it.]

Same Questioner:   Woh hi, man mey desires khatm ho chuke hain, koi desires nahi hain.  Main yeh bhi nahi chaahta ki agla janm lu, aur phir agla janm leney ki iccha nahi hai.

[That’s it.  All desires are ended in my mind.  I do not even want to be born again. I have absolutely no interest in being born again.]

Babaji Maharaj:   Usi ko prarthana kartey jaaye, jo bhi ho, aur sansaar ka duty nikaalte rahe, but daily praathna yeh karey, “Prabhu yeh aakhri janm ho, dubaara janm nahi lena chahiye.”

[Keep praying for that and continue doing your duty, but pray daily “Lord, let this be my last birth.  I do not wish to be reborn.”]

Babaji Maharaj:   Ha, bus dhyan kartey rahe, aashirvaad hai. We will pray for you.

[Continue doing your meditation.  My blessings.  We will pray for you.]

Babaji Maharaj: [The Master explains the preceding conversation in Hindi.] What he wanted to know, how about a householder.  Will it be very difficult if you are a householder to practice meditation or achieve Self-realization, so that we don’t have to be reborn again?

   I was advising him if you are already a householder there is no problem.  You can try to see God in everything as everything, in your own family, within yourself, in your wife, and your children, other responsibilities.  Whatever you want to carry on, you carry on.  Just try to see God.  Thus, your mind will accept everything that happens.  Even if it is not according to your expectations, just accept and pray to God.  “May it happen according to your wishes, my Lord.  Please inspire my wisdom.”  So that’s it, and whenever you get time for a half an hour also you practice meditation.  That’s it, simple.  A simple way, the life can be very smooth.  That’s what I was trying to tell him. 

Question:   In the South Indian temple of Chidambaram, there is the standing deity Nataraja in the dancing pose.  But at the same time, they also try to teach the principles of consciousness.  There is a place where there is a curtain and the priest, what he does is he pulls the curtain to show the Chidambaram secret or rahasya.  And most of us who go there, we get confused saying that all he did was a trick, there was nothing there.  But only when we listen to Your teachings, then we understand the principles of space being eternal and infinite.  So, is it the same teaching that it’s also conveying?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, same concept.  That is the real Self, all-pervaded Self, beyond form and formlessness.  To show that only, that is what is known as Chidambaram rahasyam, the secret of Chidambaram.  So, finally, that’s what it is, Ultimate Truth.  Actually, the sanctum sanctorum concept also is the same.  When you cross all the three, sattvik, rajasic and tamasic gunas, you go beyond that, you transcend everything, then you will be able to realize the Self.  So, that is the idea of showing this one. 

Same Questioner:   But most of us, we get confused.  We think the priest is …

Babaji Maharaj:   It takes time to understand with a proper Guru’s teachings.  You see, having born in India, even after to this Sanatana Dharma, to come to that level, it’s so much of hurdles are there.  So many misconceptions we take into the brain and mind, and then we get confused.  But that is all the concept. Ultimate Truth is the space. 

Same Questioner:   Thanks, Babaji. 

End of Questions and Answers

Babaji Maharaj now concludes the session.

   Bye-bye to all of you.  So wonderful, lovely questions came.  We enjoyed.  It was very meaningful for me.  And I hope it’s for you all also, lovely.    

End of Session

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