Recorded on 22 November 2025 with worldwide participants.
0:00 Intro
0:38 “Universe in a hair” – Universe is how you perceive it.
3:51 Is there a separation in consciousness to make an individual consciousness?
8:06 So is the world a projection of the mind?
9:28 Is the mind a separation from the higher consciousness?
11:13 Is it possible to experience the undivided space with the mind?
13:43 Is it possible to live in the world but at the same time being unaffected by the duality of the world?
14:16 How can one be in the world, unaffected by the world?
17:32 Does it help to be indifferent to the world in order to be detached?
23:18 If you pray to someone else then you become separate from that entity.
24:19 What should we have faith in?
25:33 So there is only one consciousness of existence?
26:22 It is there all the time in the purest conscious form?
26:22 Is that pure consciousness, god?
27:34 Why did the droplet separate from the ocean of consciousness?
31:10 So the universe expands according to my mind’s capacity?
35:09 If the individual ‘I’ is removed, the universe also disappears?
38:25 ‘The salt doll, wanting to know the depth of the ocean, jumped into the ocean and become one with it.”
39:22 ‘Watching’ in Jangama Dhyana.
42:10 Out of body near death experiences or seemingly spiritual experiences due to psychedelic drugs.
46:17 What is the relationship between our mind and the pure consciousness?
47:59 What about physical space and time, how does that relate to consciousness and our perceptions?
49:48 Does time and space exist?
50:31 The doubt arising of why do I bother to do things in life if they don’t matter?
54:08 Who’s consciousness is expanding when the universe expands?
54:52 When we see someone else suffering is it necessary to show our compassion to them?
56:15 How to be that sakshi, a witness to this world?
57:15 How does a Yogi dream but still be a witness to it?
58:00 So a Yogi never sleeps?
58:25 The ‘watching’ in meditation.
59:41 Can we use the breath in meditation?
1:00:23 When we use the breath in meditation, should we keep the breath between the eyebrows?
1:00:52 Is it our perception whether time and space is a prison or a portal?
1:01:54 Are all positive characteristics the same in a greater sense?
1:02:57 And are all negative characteristics also the same thing?
1:04:09 Is it necessary that devotees wear white and also chant a specific mantra?
1:05:25 In all techniques of meditation do we observe the sensations in different places?
1:07:10 Once we reach a higher level are all meditation techniques the same?
“The Universe in a hair” from the Yoga Vasishtha | In Quest of Truth – Babaji Q&A, No. 253
Recorded on 22 November 2025 with worldwide participants.
Mata Ambaji: Baba, Pranams to you and Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Guru Maharaji Shri Swamiji. Today’s topic is ‘The Universe in a Hair,’ which is one of the stories from Yoga Vasishtha. Baba, do you want me to tell the story in a very few brief words?
Shri Babaji: Yeah, briefly if you tell, I will understand the context, then I will be able to comment.
Mata Ambaji: Yeah, Baba, this is a story comes in the Yoga Vasishtha. So, this one spiritual seeker who is a disciple of a famous Guru, he goes to the Guru and he asks him the question, “Master, what is the universe?” And the Master takes a hair from his body and says, “Start splitting and you will see the universe.” So, it’s a metaphor, which is like, the universe is a perception. It’s not external, it’s internal. Universe exists the way we perceive.
Shri Babaji: Yeah, this is what we also keep telling, like while talking about rebirths or one trying to frame destiny for themselves. So, I always tell, if you are more positive you can be able to shape a positive destiny for yourself. And if you are negative, you can be shaping a negative destiny for yourself. For that also I tell the clue that this world also appears to you based on your attitude, your mental tendencies, either as a good or a bad, either as a happy or unhappy. So, like that, the perception. So, whatever you perceive, it appears so. And sometimes I have even told, nobody really knows what this appearance is. We all, in all fields, whether in spirituality or science, have all imagined terminologies for sake of our own understanding and communication. And that takes shape, that becomes the thing.
Like for example, apple is there. This apple, it is apple because you all perceive it as an apple. Otherwise, nobody really knows what it is. We named it, time immemorial maybe, that it is a fruit and recognized it as an apple. So, everybody accepted. So, everybody communicates in that name only. So that is apple. Suppose if I come and tell, “This is not apple, this is Divine,” people may even laugh. But it is the perception. The same thing, if we perceive, it can be Divine for us. Like for one person, it could be simply a rock. For another person who perceives the Divinity, it could be a Shivalingam. That type of perception is what we get to see, this world. Further, we can discuss as you ask questions.
Mata Ambaji: So, Baba, here, with this, the first thing comes to the mind is that you always talk about the consciousness, and this entire everything around us is a consciousness. But whereas when we see ourselves, we see ourselves as an individual being. So, when everything is a consciousness, is the separation in the consciousness as a jivatma, or as an individual being, or it’s also just my short time perception which makes me separate from the consciousness?
Shri Babaji: Actually, there is no difference. It is the oneness that exists everywhere. Like the common example that is given of several earthen pots if you keep, inside is the same space. Yet, when you perceive the earthen pots, earthen pitchers, you perceive also seven different pieces of space. That becomes jivatma type. One big, one space is there, and that space inside the earthen pitcher becomes like jivatma. That’s what we perceive. In the same way, in all the physical bodies everywhere, it is that one supreme, one consciousness exists. Yet, because in every physical body – we will take up only the human beings for a while just for sake of understandings – the same consciousness has come in contact with the brain’s reflections and accepted and assumed by taking that perception of whatever the brain has reflected. So, thus, an individuality has appeared. That’s what I tell, ‘individual imagined self’ which does not really exist. But if you have imagined, you exist.
Just like you always perceive yourself based on the physical body’s personality. A name would have been given by parents or you would have assumed. So, that becomes a personality. So, you become that. So, even when we talk also, people would like to perceive us through this physical body only. They know only through this physical body of what Babaji is. Actually, what Babaji is aware of the Truth of the Self, others cannot perceive. Because, they perceive only based on their brain’s help, whatever they can perceive. So, like that, this becomes limited only because of the perception. Otherwise, it is unlimited and the oneness is there always.
Like, you try to see only the space that which is all-pervaded. But if you get into every matter which appears to be different individual things, whether it is human beings or animals or any other matter for it, whether it is exhibiting any consciousness or not, yet it is there. The consciousness is there but it doesn’t appear because we perceive only the matter. I have always told, when you enter a room, you seldom notice the space in the room. All the pillar, walls, fans, people, tables, like this, everything attracts your attention immediately and you perceive that one with a name and you identify them and you totally ignore that the space also is there. So, if you perceive and try to watch this space, this space is simply all-pervaded. It’s not simply at one place. You cannot tell that the space exists only here and not here. So, that type of perception is what I keep talking also in my talks or answers.
Mata Ambaji: So, Baba, ultimately the world is a projection of our mind. Am I understanding?
Shri Babaji: Yeah, just now if we tell this one, people might not be able to grasp the actual meaning because this universe currently is very huge compared to our physical body, our mind also even; potency. So, we try to tell this universe is the creation of a higher consciousness. Just like your mind is there, that ‘your mind’ is your consciousness and everything that you have created is within your mind. That ‘within your mind’ is your perception. So, like that, when you reach the higher consciousness, you will be able to experience this universe is the perception of that higher consciousness. The Ultimate Truth is much beyond, which simply exists in itself, which is recognized as Parabraman in the Mahasamadhi.
Mata Ambaji: Baba, just another question comes out from this. You said that the higher consciousness, which is the created, and for me, means again, in my understanding, is there some separation in both, or it’s again ultimately the one?
Shri Babaji: Actually, it is the one. The separation is not there but the same consciousness has trapped itself inside the body with illusion of imagination due to the brain’s reflections. That’s what has happened. Something like the same space has trapped itself in imagination inside the earthen pitcher, whereas it is totally free. The same space which is inside the earthen pitcher is outside also. In the same way, the same consciousness which you might perceive inside your body is outside also. This you can realize only when you experience the samadhi and then merge with the Self. So, in between this experience happens. So, that’s when you will understand it is all the oneness, simply oneness. There is no difference. There are no different personalities. It is the same thing which behaves in a good way at one place, in a bad way at one place. And this good and bad also, because of the perception.
Mata Ambaji: So, Baba, again, you give the example of the earthen pots. When I think about it, the mind again imagines, imagines the space inside and outside of those earthen pots. And when I imagine, it imagines the earthen pot and the size of the earthen pot. So, here comes, is the imagination of the space outside the earthen pot, means this vast one undivided space which exists, or the space inside the earthen pots both ultimately is my imagination and it comes as long as I am in duality? So, is it possible to experience this undivided space by the mind, or the mind becomes one with it? What’s the secret?
Shri Babaji: Mind, as long as it is into imaginations. When the imaginations are there, we recognize it as mind. So, it cannot experience the oneness vast of the space or the Ultimate Truth because it is binding itself to its own imaginations and that imagination is limited within itself only. It gets to see a smaller picture only. Just like you would have imagined yourself into this physical body that you are. Whereas you are simply all-pervaded. You are not actually binded by the physical body, yet you have binded yourself by an imagination of personality and individual imagined self. So, you perceive everything based on this physical body as you. That’s what we call it as selfish and narrow mindedness. So, if the security of your body is threatened, then only you act upon. Otherwise, you won’t realize anything at all, what is happening. So, that is how mind cannot understand or experience the oneness as long as it is the mind. It has to give up all its imaginations. Then it automatically becomes aware of itself. Its attention turns and it gets absorbed into the actual Oneness.
Mata Ambaji: So, Baba, is it possible to be in the world, to live in the world, but at the same time, live without getting affected by the relativity of the world, or by the world?
Shri Babaji: Yeah, if you stop imagining anything about yourself. Then, automatically, you are one with that one, then you can remain unaffected also.
Mata Ambaji: So Baba, please tell the secret how one can be in the world, but not by the world?
Shri Babaji: It is the body and the brain which helps you to be in the world. Just like you are on the drama stage. You are very well aware who you are and whatever you are going to behave on the stage, you should be very well aware that you are only acting. But that is the skill. When you act upon, it must appear perfect and realistic for the audience. That is the skill of the actor as long as he is on the stage. But the actor himself or herself is well aware that he is acting. And the actual personality is totally different, not the one that he is acting on the stage.
In this way, a Yogi also lives in this world. He is well aware what the Self is, because He has experienced the Truth by clearing the mind of its imaginations through the sadhana, what you call as meditation and tapas. So, He has burnt those habits of the mind which was giving it an individual imagined self. Every word is important. You must all pay attention. It was imagining an individual imagined self due to its imagination effects, that which a Yogi has stopped. Thus, He has become aware of what He is. But now, He is in the world as long as the body is there. He appears to be in the world, in fact. Because through the body, He might be eating some food. Through the body, He might be talking something. He might be answering a question or He might be doing any such thing. All these appears for the people who perceive in their own way. They think that Babaji is this body and Babaji is talking. Whereas I do not imagine anything to talk. When you ask the question, spontaneously that comes out. Until then, though today morning, I saw ‘Universe in a Hair,’ I didn’t know what it meant. I have forgotten what I would have read in Yoga Vasistha. So, I was just waiting. I had no imagination about that at all. I had no answer. I didn’t have had to prepare anything. But the moment you told the context and the story, so, then I got it. Spontaneously the flow started coming in that “This is what it is.”
Mata Ambaji: Yes, Baba. I had to prepare Baba [laughing]. I chose the subject but I had to prepare myself. So, Baba, you said that you live in the world, but again, what is the secret? Is the detachment and non-reactiveness in the world… because when we are in the world, there is automatic attachment and reactivity related to the actions, anything around us. So, being indifferent to the world, does it make any help?
Shri Babaji: Not actually indifferent. Once you are a Yogi, it is natural for you. There is no need of a detachment also. Attachment and detachment are too equal and opposite words. When one is there, the other becomes important. So, Yogi has risen above these two dualities. There is neither attachment nor detachment. If the detachment also is there, one becomes attached to that detachment, “Oh I have to remain detached.” So, that becomes an attachment again. But that imagination is not there for a Yogi. So, He simply goes on in this body, but nothing sits in the mind. Mind is totally silent and consciousness now, nothing seriously gets absorbed, nothing serious.
Just like I keep telling, it’s like you write on a white paper, instantly it gets erased and it doesn’t stay as a thing. But for a person, for you, an apple is shown, “This is apple,” means, that sits so solidly in your mind, “This is apple.” So, for me such a thing doesn’t sit at all. So, thus it is totally supremely peaceful, simply. So, that’s when, when some people ask the question, “Do you feel affected when somebody is suffering? Do you have any such desires to stop this world, the wars, conflicts, all those things?” I didn’t want to give a straight answer because people can misunderstand me to be indifferent to the world. I am not indifferent to the world because there is nothing for me. Nothing exists actually.
Just like now you have become very well aware that you are simply dreaming, and you know that you are dreaming. A dream is simply a dream, make believe appearance, but actually doesn’t have any existence value. So, thus a Yogi is also very well aware, this universe or what you call it as universe, has only an appearance value and doesn’t have an existence value. However, if somebody prays, as a reaction to that, a Yogi becomes compassionate. We can pray, yes. If there is peace, if all humanity can live in peace, in consideration to each other, it would be wonderful. It is the same thing, but if the conflicts are happening, it is happening. So, like that it’s either of the things are not there in the mind, but I wouldn’t say it as indifferent. But, if necessary, we can act upon to help somebody because many people come with some problems or some mental problems, they need counselling, they need some help, they need us to pray to the Divine. So, like these things are all there, and we do it when some people come and pray to us. Because either way, I don’t have any imagination. I don’t have any imagination that somebody is suffering and they are praying to me and I am going to pray, these imaginations are [not] there. Simply somebody prays and I pray. There is no ‘I’ praying here, there is no ‘somebody is praying to me’, means these things have disappeared.
This may appear very funny for people who are listening to this one, but this is very important. Say, somebody comes and prays to me that they have a problem, and then I promise, “I will pray for you, don’t worry, it will be all right.” But in my mind, I don’t have that imagination cropping up that “This person is praying to me, now I have to pray for that person.” Once they have prayed to me and I have told “I will pray for you”, they need to have faith. Then whatever a Yogi has uttered, that will become an automatic Divine activity, actually. That’s why faith is very important. Because I don’t have any imagination that I am going to pray again, but prayer already would have been transmitted to the Divine when we have told, because I don’t have any imagination. So, for now, only like this I am able to explain. More than this, I also don’t know what else to explain of my status. It’s very inexplicable.
Mata Ambaji: So, Baba, if I am understanding correctly, so there is no individuality left there.
Shri Babaji: Yes.
Mata Ambaji: And because you are praying, you are praying to someone else. If you are praying to someone else, then you become separate from that entity.
Shri Babaji: Yeah, there is no imagination of ‘I’ or someone else. Both are not there, that duality is gone.
Mata Ambaji: The duality is gone, and again, one’s existence of the consciousness is there, which is again pure and undivided.
Shri Babaji: Yes, it is there. So, I have simply helped them to pray so that if they are sincerely praying, their prayer to reach the Divinity and the grace automatically flows; they also need to have that faith. If they don’t have the faith, then that will not click.
Mata Ambaji: So, Baba, if I am understanding correctly, you said they have to have faith. But again, when we have faith, we have to have faith in something.
Shri Babaji: In anything that appeals to you, but with an imagination of highest thing. See, you see a rock. If you simply imagine, “This is only a rock”, then your imagination is very limited, that size of the rock. Instead, you imagine that to be Divine. The Divine all-pervaded. This rock simply symbolizes the Divine all-pervaded. That means your imagination increases to all-pervadedness. Thus, it gets connected to the Divinity, that is all-pervaded. Thus, your prayer can be quite effective. It can reach that, and an automatic Divine activity… Ramana Maharishi used to tell this, ‘automatic Divine activity.’ He has used this terminology. That means, when you touch it, it automatically happens.
Mata Ambaji: So, Baba, you just said ‘automatic Divine activity’, and according to our scriptures, they say that the Divine, which is again, the Supremely Conscious One Existence, and it’s vibrating, it’s always there, it’s always in existence. So, am I correctly understanding that that consciousness…
Shri Babaji: Yeah, precisely, I am trying to tell, in between, I do not exist at all. It’s long gone. Whatever it is, it is That only.
Mata Ambaji: So, that existence is pure and alive. It’s… I am unable to put in words. It’s there all the time and in the purest conscious form.
Shri Babaji: Yes. That is the nearest word that we can imagine.
Mata Ambaji: And we pray. So, Baba, sometimes it’s very funny because if we relate to that, we can say, the consciousness is the God only. That’s the Divinity, Consciousness and the God. And everything we perceive…
Shri Babaji: See, concept of God is there as long as you have the concept of your individuality.
Mata Ambaji: Yes, yes, Baba, yes. And mind is separate there.
Shri Babaji: Concept of ocean is there as long as you have the concept of yourself as the droplet of the ocean.
Mata Ambaji: Yes, Baba. So, Baba, here one more confusion comes to me. So, if that undivided consciousness is there and, like you said, as long as you are a droplet… but when the consciousness was pure, from where has the droplet come? Why has it separated?
Shri Babaji: It never happened actually. Because you are touching the highest truth, we usually don’t talk this topic, not to confuse people. Never really anything happened. Just like when you dream in the night times or when you go to sleep and dream, actually nothing happens. Simply an appearance. That is what is known as illusion, ‘Bhrama’ is the word used, ‘Bhrama’. It appears to be appeared. Actually nothing happens. Simply one single Self exists in Itself. These things can be experienced only when you experience samadhi state. At that time if I explain also, you will understand more. Till then, this thing sits as a reality; you as an individual, and you seeing a dream. So, then you perceive that dream as a reality. So, all these things, chain of actions go on, go on. Thus, you trap yourself and bind yourself into these imaginations.
So, a Yogi, by doing tapas burns all these imaginations and has liberated Himself from these chain of trapping. So, this trapping is not there at all. So, for Him if the ‘I’ is not there, ‘I dreaming’ never happened at all. This very complicated it would appear to understand theoretically. But this is what the truth is. Only when you experience in that samadhi state. Even in Yoga Vasistha also, Vasistha tells to Shri Rama whenever He asks, “Okay, I understand. Everything is based on simply imagination technology. But how did this came into existence?” Then He tells, “Just now you are into imagination, that’s why you will not understand. When your imagination stops and you get into that stage, at that time if I explain you will understand, or on your own you understand.” This point Vasistha talks if you remember when you have read the Yoga Vasistha. In the same way, you have to experience, you have to reach the higher consciousness which has created this universe as an appearance. At that stage only, this experience comes. Until then, it won’t get in, penetrate into the mind or consciousness understanding. Because mind is perceiving a smaller world, a miniature imagined world only. Question is a very high-quality question. I appreciate. But understanding the answer is not easy.
Mata Ambaji: Yes, Baba. So, this gives a beautiful meaning, what you just explained. So, the universe expands according to my mind’s capacity, which is again not separate from this universe. But again, it appears only. Only for the appearance, it shows that it’s expanding or shrinking according to my mind, the way I perceive.
Shri Babaji: Yeah, I remember some time ago somebody wrote to me that Einstein has told, when the universe expands, ney, with the something… I don’t know what he told. Because then I told, “When the consciousness expands only the universe expands. Without the consciousness also expanding, the universe will not expand on its own.” This is what I told. I’m forgetting what Einstein told exactly. I don’t know if you have read that one. Universe keeps expanding, something like that.
Mata Ambaji: Expanding, but it’s not the universe which expands, it’s the mind or the consciousness expands, and it appears that it’s expanding.
Shri Babaji: Like in your own mind, your mind is consciousness. As it spins and expands, the imagination story can expand. It can expand an imagination into fifty thousand nautical miles of distance. It can show a magnified size of such a huge… Whereas it can be split into a hair, simply. Just like that. The way that you perceive. That’s where we come back to the title of today’s theme that you have selected very nicely, wonderful, ‘Universe in a Hair’. That is all it remains. But it can magnify, split and spread and spread and spread. That is the concept also that in some temples in India, if you remember, I remember having seen in Rishikesh long ago, two mirrors are kept one in front of the other. If you watch inside the mirror, simply mirror after mirror, mirror after mirror. You cannot count even. You go on seeing and it appears, simply. It splits. It’s the same mirror. It splits into so many pieces and appears to be there perfectly. You just remove one mirror, that oneness is there. One single mirror cannot reflect anything. It needs an object to reflect. Then only it reflects. So that is how the illusion, amazing, has come, theoretically that has come which produces like this.
That is what the Brahma concept, the one who creates but doesn’t get involved into it. And that is the Bhrama, is the illusion. Such is the amazing thing. You trap yourself when you see this. After you imagine, you can be trapping yourself into your own imagination. You imagine an unhappiness and then you trap yourself into that unhappiness. Thus, you become unhappy just for no reason. People may not understand now at this stage. But when you meditate and one day when you reach that state, definitely you will understand.
Mata Ambaji: Baba, I understand intellectually which I think is purely your grace that I can understand intellectually. I have no experience, but with your answers and with your blessings I can intellectually understand that if you remove one – one means that one ‘I’ – that individual ‘I’, when it’s removed, there is nothing left?
Shri Babaji: Yes.
Mata Ambaji: The universe also disappears?
Shri Babaji: Everything disappears. When the ‘I’ is not there, ‘I’ itself is not there, what else is there?
Mata Ambaji: Yeah. So, Baba, sometimes in our Indian or Hindu terms we say that once the death happens to the body, nothing left. Means, though it’s in a very crude way because it’s only the body again, the mind will come back again somewhere else. But when you say, “When I am in a deep, deep sleep, the world disappears,” so, because there is one no ‘I’, individual I-ness is there, that superficial ‘I’ which I relate to me as an individual being has disappeared and rest of the world also has disappeared.
Shri Babaji: Yeah. As long as the ‘I’ is maintained, the universe is also maintained. That’s when we tell, when death happens, when the brain dies, if the mind is holding desires and imaginations, it spins and intensity of thoughts form. So, based on that, it gets to see its next incarnation. Next incarnation means, itself being born, itself having so many things before it is born, and a world, a universe, parents, a sibling or these things, that thing, many things of its own world. Everything it would have created with the power of those thoughts. It perceives, and it is there, and it gets trapped. To come out of that trap, it takes a hell of a job to do tapas. Till then, the mind will never accept theoretically, even if anybody tells. That’s when Einstein also kept quiet. He knew, to reach that you have to cross the barrier of time and space, but that is not a thing to be demonstrated in a laboratory or proved in such a way. Only logically, individual experience. That is why a Master talks only to that level which the students can understand. When the student reaches that higher stage, then the Master talks. If you remember, Ramakrishna used to take some of those students inside the room and then He used to talk to them about the Advaita, the Oneness, of all these things; He used to talk there.
Mata Ambaji: So, Baba, ultimately, you said that Ramakrishna used to talk, it comes to the point that indeed, the salt doll tried to measure the ocean and dissolved and became one with the ocean.
Shri Babaji: Yeah, that’s what is the example He used to tell, Ramakrishna; salt doll wanting to know the depth of the ocean jumped into the ocean, because there was no other thing to measure, then it became one with the thing. It’s like here, when you start meditating or doing tapas, you embark upon to measure the space. So, you try to penetrate the space. In the process, you lose your individuality and become one with the space, and there is nothing left to measure at all.
Mata Ambaji: Yes, Baba. Babaji, one very last question, which is with the technique of Jangama Dhyana. Baba, when you say that you just watch the front portion, is it okay when I watch the front portion and I remind myself constantly that this is it, this is the point with my conscious effort not to think. Not to think means, with this thought that it’s my choice that I think or I don’t think. I just keep watching in between eyebrows without imagination of the space and location. And I continue like that. Is it helpful somewhere?
Shri Babaji: Yeah, I started teaching this one. Don’t even bother to locate the in between eyebrows that I keep instructing. Just watch the front portion without thinking, “What is it? It is front portion or not portion, which one is watching, who is watching?” Don’t bother about any of this thing, just watch. Anything appears also, don’t think about them, just watch. So, you must differentiate this. Your mind must be able to just watch and not think whether you are seeing something, whether you are having something in the front or not, what it is. Because there is no target given. You don’t have to see anything else other than you. Only a target is given if you needed to see something else other than you. Here, you are meditating to see yourself. That’s why you are not told to see anything. Just watch. I repeat, you are not told to see anything. Just watch!
Mata Ambaji: Thank you so much, Babaji, for this beautiful question and answer session. I hand it over to Zen to open for the public.
Shri Babaji: Yeah, you asked very intelligent questions and thanks to you for bringing up this. Hope the future generations seekers will be benefited by listening to this which is being recorded. We don’t know whether every day we will be able to discuss these things or not. But I hope the generations will be benefited to understand the truth, what we have told. Thank you so much. So, we will try to take some of the questions.
Question: Thank you for giving us your time for this session. My question is on the lines of what has been spoken of. Could you speak a little bit about… some people experience out of body near death, they have near death experiences, but they come back into their body and then they describe the experience. And then other people have an intense religious experience where they suddenly realise, but they come back. And then the third type of experience is when people take psychedelic drugs and they are… perhaps the mind is quietened and so they are a bit more expansive. My question…
Shri Babaji: When they take drugs? What did you say?
Same Questioner: Like psychedelic drugs, so they’re mind-altering drugs. And their mind is perhaps quiet, so they are expansive for a short, you know, few hours. So, my question is when this happens, the experience seems genuine. But can you speak more to it? Would people need to find a practice?
Shri Babaji: In my opinion, experience might look genuine, but not the actual truth experience. I’ll try to tell. The soul coming out of the body, again going back into the body doesn’t happen at all. It’s not like that. When a realisation happens, you are… because individuality was an imagined one. Simply that imagination needs to disappear. You’re already one with the all-pervaded. The soul is not an individual piece which comes out of the body and again goes into the body. So that is a hallucination that gets created to some people and they start believing. By reading books or listening to some theories, they start believing like that one.
Another thing that you mentioned of the drugs, some drugs that are taken, the mind becomes quiet. What happens when any such drug is taken, it suppresses the brain’s reflections. Brain is unable to reflect anything. It suppresses the brain’s waves. When there is nothing to reflect for the brain, mind also has nothing to catch, temporarily. So, mind temporarily experiences a quietness and happiness. For this, people misunderstand that we get happiness when we take drugs like this. But what happens, unfortunately, mind itself doesn’t get cleared of its habits. Then the brain starts losing its health by such intake of any such drugs, it will lose. So, one is unable to live a normal life and thus any such drug must be avoided at all times. It must never be taken in any form for this purpose of obtaining peace or happiness. So that is very, very important. Meditation helps naturally to detach the mind from the reflections of the [brain]. And it helps not to become a victim of the mind. Brain’s health is kept intact. It is not affected. But mind is withdrawn. Mind becomes aware. It does not become a victim of the brain’s reflections anymore. It becomes a master of the brain. It learns to use the brain.
Question: Hello, Babaji. Thanks for taking the question. Incredible explanations. My question is, I would like to understand what is the relationship between our minds and the consciousness that you’re talking about?
Shri Babaji: We call the same consciousness as ‘mind’ when it is imagining. When thoughts and visions are there in the consciousness, to that we call it as ‘mind’. When the thoughts and visions disappear through the practice of meditation, mind regains its form of Pure Consciousness. That is the relationship. It is the same consciousness that becomes mind. The same mind regains to become the consciousness. Consciousness is mentioned when the mind is pure and is not into any imagination. The same consciousness is mentioned as mind when it is into imaginations.
Same Questioner: I see. So that’s why we work on quieting the mind. So, when there are no thoughts passing and such, then the mind becomes consciousness?
Shri Babaji: Yes.
Same Questioner: Okay. And then the other somewhat unrelated question is, what about all the physical space, all the time and such? Is that just our perception? How does this all relate to the consciousness and our mind and our perceptions?
Shri Babaji: See, the existence appearance of this universe has happened due to a higher consciousness. You have not created through your mind. But simply you perceive. That’s what we were discussing earlier. Whatever you perceive, things appear to be like that. Like if you perceive this world as very good, this world appears to be very good. If you perceive this world as very bad, it appears to be bad. One man’s food is another man’s poison. That was what we were discussing. So just now you cannot handle this universe, because this is not created by the small potency of what you have as the mind. This has been created by a higher potency consciousness. When you reach that, when you merge with that only, you will realize and become aware of the truth of the creation. So just now you do not bother about the universe externally that is appearing. You just bother about the universe that is in your mind.
Same Questioner: Just to quiet the mind and allow it to become the consciousness?
Shri Babaji: Consciousness. Then you will be able to go back to the higher consciousness and experience the further greater truths.
Same Questioner: Okay, so does the time and space actually exist then?
Shri Babaji: If you imagine, it is there. If you do not imagine, it is not there [laughing].
Same Questioner: But we experience it through our physical bodies. And then we have to be here at one thirty, at this time, in order to join your session. So…
Shri Babaji: Let it be. That’s why I told, by theory you cannot understand, this cannot be explained. You are here. This body is here. That’s fine. For now, let us keep it like that. At a higher stage you will know.
Same Questioner: Okay, thank you. Thank you so much. Very helpful.
Question: Thank you. I was relating to what you were talking about this morning. I was asked to give a talk last night about my furniture. I was commissioned to make furniture for a Jewish synagogue and they asked me to come and unpack it, what are the ideas. Okay, so I showed up, and I was raised in the Jewish tradition, but I no more identify with being Jewish as a Vedantist or anything else. It is like the clothing, right? But I go and I give the talk. I didn’t prepare and the words are coming and I am watching. I am watching, the words are coming together beautifully and the ideas. But it is almost as if I am just a piece of the audience watching this whole thing. It goes beautifully and it finishes. And then I go. And then afterwards the mind is always coming up with this idea around what you are talking about. Why this feeling of being dispassionate or not connected? So, I felt very… there wasn’t a feeling of engagement and there wasn’t a feeling of being dispassionate. But the doubt arises like a dream. Why would I bother to help somebody if this is all a dream anyway? And yet the world keeps asking me to do things. And if I don’t think, all the actions take place beautifully and then it is only later the mind comes in with these doubts, “Why are you helping? Pain is an illusion. Whether you help somebody or don’t help somebody. It doesn’t matter in the end.” And so sometimes it feels a little confusing.
Shri Babaji: No, please pay attention now. Things will not work like that one. Like, you gave a talk on the subject. And then you start thinking, “If everything is imagination, why would I give this talk?” You giving a talk was also an imagination so you don’t have to bother why you gave a talk. You gave a talk, that was imagination. Anybody getting help from that talk is also imagination. When everything is an imagination, you just don’t bother about anything. Somebody wants you to give a talk, you give a talk. Somebody doesn’t want you to give a talk, don’t give a talk. Just remain in yourself, thus, without bothering, “Why did I give a talk? Why did I not give a talk?” Lose these dualities. That is what the oneness is. The talk that you gave was also an imagination. Don’t bother about that talk anymore. It’s over. If somebody is benefited, it’s fine. You don’t have to imagine that you helped somebody to be benefited. Like we answer the question, when a question is asked to me. I don’t have the imagination that I am answering or you are asking. So, the question of why I should answer doesn’t arise at all. Just live in the world and don’t have anything in the mind, type.
Same Questioner: Okay. Thank you.
Shri Babaji: Great.
Question: I wanted to ask one thing. You said that as Einstein told that this universe expands or something. So, you said that when the consciousness expands so the universe expands. So, whose consciousness is expanding? Is that God’s consciousness that’s expanding?
Shri Babaji: So, God and consciousness are not separate. Consciousness is one. This you will understand when you reach the Samadhi state. The consciousness is not separate from God. God, the Supreme Consciousness is God actually. When that expands.
Question: Namaste Babaji. Babaji, I have a question. Like when we see another one suffering is it necessary to give a reaction like, “Oh, you’re so in pain” or simply relax and just pray?
Shri Babaji: Nee, what you see in this world, if somebody is suffering, if we can talk something that is consoling to them. Means we have to show them that we care for them. We understand their suffering. Then it can give some relief to them. So that is how we have to behave in this world. So, without having any imagination in the mind you can practice this when you practice meditation also. You can show you’re compassionate. At the same time, you can remain unaffected by that. So that’s what has to happen. If somebody is suffering, you can talk in a consoling way that can be helpful. But you don’t have to go on imagining what you have to talk, what you are talking. So, you just meditate and be in yourself.
Same Questioner: Thank you, Babaji.
Shri Babaji: You’re welcome.
Question: Pranam, Babaji. Very happy to have your talks. So, I have a long question, Babaji. So there is a Lalita Namawali which says ‘Jagrat-Svapna Sushuptinaam Sakshi-Bhutyai Namo Namah’, and I was wondering how to be that sakshi, like a spectator to all these things? I mean, all these three stages. And the great people like You….
Shri Babaji: Means, when you mentally do not get involved, then you can be a witness. ‘Sakshi’ means witness. You get to see the world, everything. You also act upon. But mentally you don’t allow it to play on your mind too much. So thus, if you practice meditation only, this status will come to you. Just be a sakshi. That’s why a Yogi who is a Self-Realized soul is known as a witness, ‘sakshi bhava’. That’s what, it automatically comes when you practice meditation.
Same Questioner: Got it. So, for Yogi, Babaji, how can you get a dream or get into sushupti and still be watching that sushupti and dream?
Shri Babaji: You see, a dream comes, how it happens, a little bit of consciousness is in touch with the brain. That’s when this body is alive. So, when that consciousness is in touch with the brain, the brain produces dreams. But the Yogi is very well aware that this is only a dream. Even at that time also He doesn’t become a victim of that dream anymore. Just like He is well aware of the oneness of the Self, He will be aware of the dream as a dream also. This stage comes.
Same Questioner: So, Yogi never sleeps, Babaji, like us, they never sleep. They are always like…
Shri Babaji: The body sleeps, the brain sleeps, because it is active in this world. But the Yogi is always aware. That’s what is the ‘Jagrat-Svapna Sushupti’; beyond that a Yogi goes.
Same Questioner: Thanks a lot. Thank you.
Question: Thank you. My mind or whatever it is now is quite full of a lot of questions. But the first one is – I listened to what you said about seeing. When we’re in meditation and we see things, we have to observe them.
Shri Babaji: Yeah. You just have to observe and don’t think about them further.
Same Questioner: Yes, but you use the words – we see the images. And then we observe them. And then we see them in a different way. What’s the difference between the two seeings?
Shri Babaji: ‘See’ is, through the mind, it appears. When it appears, the mind has to see. But mind should not think about it, analyse about it further, then mind is going to create more and more thoughts. To stop that process only, we teach just observe, just watch. When you are just watching or observing [break in audio] further. You don’t get engaged with those thoughts. Then the thoughts will all disappear.
Same Questioner: Okay, thank you. Thank you. I do have another question. It’s about the breath. You say that we focus on space, akash. Can we use the breath? Because it seems to me that breath is the nearest thing that we have in our technology.
Shri Babaji: Whenever the mind is restless, for a while, you can use the breath. Take a long inhale and exhale for a couple of minutes, then the mind’s restlessness is brought down. Then try to focus in between eyebrows on the akash, what you are talking. So eventually, that would be better. In between, you can keep taking the help of breath, whenever the mind is restless, there’s no harm.
Same Questioner: Okay, and when we are breathing, are we keeping the breath itself between the eyebrows?
Shri Babaji: The breath will go on in its place. When you concentrate in your mind, it appears as if it is here. So, you don’t have to bother its location. When you need to concentrate on the breath, you concentrate on the breath, then the mind’s restlessness is brought down.
Same Questioner: Is it our perception, whether or not time and space are a prison, or a portal to enlightenment?
Shri Babaji: Portal or pris.., please repeat, what did you say?
Same Questioner: Well, I understand that we’re limited by time and space. It’s a creation or a projection, and then we get trapped in it. But can we use time and space to get out of the prison? Or do we avoid that concept altogether?
Shri Babaji: So if you can avoid altogether, you can straight away go. But if you need, you can take the help. Because just like, you want to take the help of one thought to get rid of thousands of thoughts. Or you just silently watch, you can get rid straight away without bothering about time and space at all.
Same Questioner: So, we take it out of the equation.
Shri Babaji: Yes, exactly.
Question: Yes, it’s so great to see you, Baba. It’s been wonderful today. My question is about things that appear to be different, but actually aren’t. So, in the positive realm, you might have something like generosity feels like it’s one thing, and acceptance feels like it’s another thing, and kindness feels like it’s another thing. But are they actually the same thing in a greater sense?
Shri Babaji: Yeah, they’re all generated from the same source, the consciousness, and the brain’s reflections. So, it is the mind which imagines about all these things. So, the source is the same, but because of imagination criteria, it appears to be different. They are all of the same source. One great.
Same Questioner: Okay, so then the other side of that is if you have negative things that also seem like they’re different, like anger, jealousy, hatred, prejudice. Are those also the same thing?
Shri Babaji: Yeah, they are all same thing because in this world, whatever you perceive, things appears like that. A certain thing you might perceive as positive, it appears to be a positive thing coming out, and a certain thing you perceive as a negative thing, a negative thing comes out. Like anger you are talking, to some it might be a negative thing, to some it might be a very positive thing, who are fond of anger always. So, one man’s food is another man’s poison. Food has nothing to do. What person likes that food, another person doesn’t like that food. It’s whatever you perceive, it appears to be so. This [negative thing] is the same.
Same Questioner: Alright, thank you.
Question: Thank you, Babaji. I try and find your teachings online, but I’m not sure that they’re correct, so I just wanted to confirm briefly. Is it true that you recommend that your devotees wear white daily, and recite a mantra like om nama shivaya when not in meditation?
Shri Babaji: No such imposition. We do not impose any particular dress, just we initiate people into meditation. And on their own if they want, their choice, they want to chant something when they request, we tell whatever appeals to you, easy to you, that also we do not impose any one particular chant. They can chant anything they want. They are totally free. We basically teach meditation. That is the basic teaching. So, we insist upon sitting for one-hour meditation and see in between eyebrows as I instructed today, that is all. The rest is all no imposition at all. We leave it to the choice of the individual.
Same Questioner: Thank you.
Shri Babaji: You’re welcome.
Question: Pranam Babaji. Nice to meet you. I’ll just keep my question short, Babaji. So, I have a question, a general question related to the technique of meditation that you taught. I’m practicing it daily, and it’s really useful. So, I’ve practiced other techniques like the technique taught by Gautam Buddha, which is the Vipassana, and the Jangama Dhyana technique, which focuses the entire concentration on the ajna chakra. And some masters suggest to concentrate on the anahat to calm the mind. So, all we do in any of these techniques is basically only one thing, is observation, observe the sensations on the body, right? So, either it’s Vipassana, where we observe the sensations from the head to toe. Or in the Jangama Dhyana, we observe the sensations in between the eyebrows. Or on the anahat chakra, even in that technique, we observe the sensation around the heart region.
Shri Babaji: Yeah, the basic idea is to silence the mind. So thus all techniques are good, equally good. Whichever is easy you find, you can practice. There is no harm and no conflict. They are all different techniques that have been taught. So, you should not analyse further. You silently watch. So, then it will be beneficial. All these techniques are wonderful.
Same Questioner: So how do all these techniques come together? Like once we reach a higher state do all of them fall in place?
Shri Babaji: Silencing the mind. Once the mind is silenced, it’s attention turns to itself. It goes to the awareness of the Self. That’s what happens. The same result comes. It means you reach the same location, type. Same result. Your mind becomes silent. Just now it is aware of its imaginations. Its attention is all on the imagination. Those imaginations will all disappear. Then its attention turns to itself. Thus, you become aware of yourself as that Immortal Soul, what we call it, Atman.
Same Questioner: Okay, okay. Thank you.
Shri Babaji: So wonderful seeing you all. And it’s time to disappear and say bye, bye to you all.
End of Session
