0:00 Introduction from Babaji on deepavali
1:45 What does Babaji mean when He uses the term ‘mind’?
4:25 Explanation of the ‘Falsely imagined individual self’
9:04 What is happening in the mind when we are unhappy?
16:52 Are we happy simply when a desire is being fulfilled?
19:59 Is peace when we are not particularly happy, and not particularly unhappy?
21:37 Is it correct that everything we do is simply aimed at being in peace and happiness?
26:07 When I think of peace going on and on, it sounds bit boring?
29:18 What is the meaning of ‘Sat chit anandam’?
36:25 Does one need to do longer meditations for the mind to stop over chattering in meditation?
38:40 When one wakes up in the middle of the night and gets anxious, what to do at that time?
38:33 If I am neither the doer or the enjoyer, who is it that is doing and enjoying? How to differentiate mind from the soul?
42:41 Can one lower position of focus of attention in meditation if pain arises in the head when concentrating in between eyebrows?
44:39 How can one overcome not recognising thoughts in meditation?
48:15 Unless consciousness is connected to mind and body it cannot experience pain or pleasure, so who is experiencing mind or Atma?
49:31 When we know we are not supposed to do something but can’t restrain ourselves from doing it, how to control the mind?
51:04 Advice on living with someone who suffers a lot and is confused.

The Mind in Peace and Happiness | In Quest of Truth – Q&A with Babaji, No.201

Recorded on 2 November 2024 with worldwide participants.

Shri Babaji:

A couple of days ago, India and Indians all over the world celebrated Deepavali, ‘The garland of lights’. Light is always symbolically compared to knowledge, eternity, so on, also for happiness, peace. And traditionally in northern India people believe that Lord Sri Rama entered His kingdom back from the life of forest that He had to go for 14 years, after killing the demon king and bringing his wife back. So, the subjects of Ayodhya celebrated by lighting such beautiful lights around. So that is Deepavali; let us pray that all ignorance be washed away, just like the darkness disappears in one go when a light is lighted. In the same way, the mind may become purified, silent. Be able to achieve silence, and the knowledge may blossom and appear about your real Self, about the truth of existence.

Question:

Baba, today we were going to look at the concept of the mind in peace and happiness, and firstly Baba, could we ask Babaji to please describe what He means when He uses the term ‘mind’?

Shri Babaji:

 Generally, people know the mind by the thoughts and visions that are in the mind. Based on that only everybody recognizes, like “My mind wants to do this, my mind wants to go there, it’s my mind, my mind”, like that it comes. But the actual mind itself is hardly bothered by people, what it is. Because, we easily get attracted to the movie, but don’t bother about the screen at all; how it’s projected, how it comes into existence, this movie.

In the same way, mind is made up of consciousness and energy. Consciousness means wherever you apply your consciousness, just now which you call as mind. Means, why I am using consciousness, the same mind when all thoughts and visions can be cleared, make it dissolve or disappear, then what remains is the pure consciousness. It is from there that your existence consciousness also is arising. This you can realize only when you go deeper into meditation, when you are able to clear all your thoughts and visions, when it blossoms as a pure consciousness – then you discover, “That is from where the ‘I’ consciousness is arising”.

So, that’s what is consciousness and energy combination. They are inseparable; they both are one. Because of the presence of energy, consciousness is able to be creative. It can create in itself, what we call as imaginations. Imagination is not an ordinary quality. It is a great ability of the consciousness to be creative. So, this is the first thing we need to understand about the mind.

Question:

Thank you, Baba. Babaji sometimes uses a terminology, ‘falsely imagined individual self’. Could Babaji please explain that further?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, exactly. It’s very true. Whereas the actual consciousness of existence is coming from this consciousness. When it is purified only, it is visible. As long as it is mind… Because mind, the same consciousness has become mind and is preoccupied with its thoughts and visions, imaginations, it is unable to notice about that Self-consciousness, existence consciousness that is coming from that Self, that consciousness. Thus, instead of concentrating or becoming aware and trying to understand about what we are, we would have identified ourselves as something else, starting from the physical body as ‘me’. And so many other personalities that I have always explained in a simple way – the subtle bodies that we absorb. Like, “I am a man, I am a woman, I am an American, I am an Australian, I am an Indian, I am this caste, I am this status, I am a businessman, I am a royal person, I am an officer, I am an army commandant”, like that. These all sit as egos.

This is what I always have tried to address as ‘individual imagined self’, meaning which does not really exist. And hither to, we would have known ourselves as this body and the names or status or definitions that we would have given to ourselves. So, we would know ourselves in that form only, which is not true. We do not exist as the body. That’s why I have always told in my teaching, you are much more beyond the birth and death of the physical body. You are that eternal entity called soul, the pure consciousness. That’s what you need to realize.

You simply try to limit. If you tell, “I am only a businessman, I am only from this country”, so this Self is beyond all limitations, it is boundless. That you will realize only in samadhi status, that’s a different thing, but just for sake of understanding what I am trying to talk, that truth is realized or it means you become aware. Like, as a youngster of ten years old I used to wonder, “As scriptures talk that we are the soul, atman. If at all I am that atman, not this body, why is that I am not aware of it just now? What is wrong? Is there something wrong within me or something wrong in this world that I am not aware of it? So like, youcome and tell me, “Oh, you are the emperor”. But I am not aware. I am only an ordinary man. I don’t know that I am an emperor, to which empire that I am emperor. Where is the empire, first? Like that.

So, everybody is sucked and immersed in their own imaginations of everyday like millions of imaginations about the outside world, about the world inside us, in our mind, about ourselves; we would be imagining so many things, so many things, millions and millions. So, all this I have tried to call as ‘individual imagined self’, which never existed at all. This we realize, “Oh, this ‘I’, which I have been thinking as this thing is not actually this. This is That, that Ultimate Truth, boundless, all pervaded Truth. That’s what one would realize and become aware, what is known as Self-Realization.

Question:

Thank you, Baba. Baba, what then is happening in the mind when we are unhappy?

Shri Babaji:

The mind is imagining things in an unhappy way, means it is dissatisfied. About this world also, it imagines that “I need to have a palatial bungalow”. If that doesn’t happen, the mind becomes frustrated and becomes unhappy, refuses to accept the truth that “the palatial bungalow could not happen for me because I did not have the necessary money”. Like this, simply everywhere this is what happens. But the mind refuses to accept, thus goes into unhappiness, into frustration, dejection or anger, all these things crop up within the mind. “Why this is not happening? I wanted to achieve this”.

We put in an effort – say, you sit for meditation. You want to see God or you want to see the Self – overnight it doesn’t happen. Millions of thoughts torture, torture and torture. They all keep coming. “Why this happening? Why not that? Why I couldn’t do this one? I have to do this one. I have this responsibility. Why this world is happening?” and so on. Millions of thoughts when they come, then frustration happens, dejection happens. “Oh, meditation is not coming. When I try to meditate itself, millions of thoughts are coming, they are torturing – that is making me unhappy”.

 Finally, our imagination about a particular thing causes us unhappiness. If we can overcome that imagination and just accept it. Like, this world exists. Neither you nor me created this world – at least for now, that’s what we have to understand. The universe, the planets, galaxies, Milky Way, the black holes, everything is there. Just now let us assume that we don’t know really who created it. But we have imagined, “This world must go like this”, means “These things must happen in the world. Everybody has to live like this. They have to listen to me. If I wish, this thing must happen to me. If I wish to have a helicopter, chopper, I must have it. If I wish to have an aeroplane, I must have it. If I wish to have a kingdom, I must have it. If I want to be the most powerful person, I must have it”.

Like that, everybody tries to imagine according to their practices. One tries to imagine only a chocolate or ice cream. Another tries to imagine to become the emperor of the world, powerful president of the world forever, “I want to be the president of this country or this world. I need to have more countries coming together and I need to dictate terms to all countries: ‘This is how you will all behave’”. So that is people’s imagination, that’s what they want to become.

Thus, if it doesn’t happen, they get their energy gets converted into frustration, unhappiness, anger, revenge, all these things crop up. Energy conversion happens one after another, one after another. When you are disappointed, thus, disappointment gives you unhappiness, then that unhappiness can get converted into an anger. So, that is how – then revenge, “How to do this. I will destroy the world. If I cannot use the oil, I will destroy the oil at all. I don’t want anybody in the world to use the oil”. So like that, one person can start thinking and pour out all the oil into the ocean, “Let this oil go to waste. I don’t want anybody to use it”.

See, one human being thinking like that. It is the same old story that we all read, many of you have read in books also. An old lady was there. She had a hen. In that village every morning it used to crow. Then everybody would get up and go into their daily chores and attend to their duties. For some reason somebody annoyed that old lady, they didn’t give her anything that she wanted. So, she got annoyed. “This hen of mine, every day, early morning it crows. So that is how morning happens in this village. And then all these villagers get up. Now, I must take away this hen somewhere else. And then I will see how morning will happen, how the sun rise will happen in this world”, she thought. That is how the people of this world keep thinking for themselves and for others also. She went. So, after a few months, five, six months later, she was curious, inquisitive. She could not live peacefully after that. She always used to think, “How those people of the village would be living now. Are they really getting up? Is there any early morning rise, sun rise happening, not happening? Let me go and see how in the darkness they are able to manage”.

She comes to the village with her hen. Everybody, she gets to see that people are working on the agricultural fields. She asks, “How is it that the sunrise has happened in this village, morning has happened?” That man asked, “What do you mean?” “I took away my hen from here. It used to crow and the sunrise used to happen in the morning and you all used to get up. I got annoyed and I took away the hen. Now, how is that possible that the sunrise has happened?” He hits his head, “oh, old, foolish lady. If your hen doesn’t crow, do you think the sunrise won’t happen?”

So that is how this world – we become unhappy, we get annoyed, we want to take a revenge unnecessarily. So, these are all some of the reasons how unhappiness happens in the mind. When you are dejected, when your wishes are not fulfilled; you can become annoyed with God, you can become annoyed with your Guru. “You don’t give me the lottery money, you are not a Guru at all! You cannot be God because you are not giving me any gold chain or any gold rings, so you cannot be God!” That is the definition one would like to give. Is this the definition for God and Guru? Guru is ready to give you that knowledge and wisdom, which you don’t have to depend on anybody, on any hen or crowing of the hen, or any old lady or old lady’s annoyance, you don’t have to depend for that knowledge of the Self – what you are actually.

So, these are some of the basic points, what unhappiness means. And this unhappiness is totally, solely due to imagination of one’s own mind.

Question:

So then Babaji, you are happy simply when the desire has been fulfilled; it’s nothing more than that?

Shri Babaji:

That’s what people imagine. And that is why they become unhappy also. Like I have told, a small kid wanting an ice cream, if it gets the ice cream it is very happy. If it’s mum refuses, “No, your health is going to be affected and you are not going to eat the ice cream in this cold. You have eaten too much, enough!” Then the child gets annoyed. In the same way, every wish if it is not fulfilled, people get annoyed. So, they get unhappiness. But actual happiness is not by getting these wishes fulfilled. That is what spirituality alerts. One full alertness is given: you cannot depend for your happiness on this universe which itself is impermanent, including your own physical body. When a certain thing is impermanent, how can it give you permanent happiness?

Like I used to imagine as a child of twelve years, if there is happiness, it must be there for twelve months, twenty four hours, at all times, why the fluctuation? Why sometimes an unknown fear; “What will happen tomorrow? Oh, my people have gone out, will they come back safely? If any accident happens, anybody harms them, anything happens”. So, all these types of hundreds and millions of imaginations keep coming when our dear and near ones keep going. Then people become unhappy. So, I used to wonder, “No, this is not the right happiness”. Slowly, we realized eventually as we became more spiritual and attracted to the teachings of great Self-Realized masters like Adi Shankara, Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharishi, Shiva Balayogi Maharaj, finally, who became our Guru, our father, our mother, everything He taught us.

So that’s how we realized, happiness is when there is contentment in the mind. And the contentment is when there is no desire. One time Swamiji jokingly said, “You know, a person becomes poor by desires. A person who doesn’t have a desire, nobody can bend his head. No power can bend, because he has no desire at all. He doesn’t have a desire to live. He doesn’t have a desire to own an empire. He doesn’t have a desire to own anything. Who can bend such a power, such a person?” Swamiji used to tell this great philosophy. “A person becomes poor by desires”. This was what he used to tell.

Question:

Babaji, we often seem to be settled into a state where we’re not particularly happy and we’re not particularly unhappy. Is that what Babaji is referring to as peace? Or is it something quite other than that?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah. Peaceful is, you don’t feel like having any desire, you don’t feel that you need anything at all. It is composed, at peace. Finally, you understand when your mind is peaceful, you have peace. This simply is the definition. If it is not peaceful, you don’t have peace. It is the mind which experiences happiness and unhappiness. So, if you have peace, that’s what it is. There is neither desire nor that anything has been fulfilled. Means, that’s what in Bhagavad Gita as it teaches, a jivanmukta. If somebody praises me or somebody criticizes me, either way they cannot change my attitude, mentality or anything. At all times it is composed and at peace. Simply just to be happy, I don’t need somebody to praise me. Simply somebody thinks that by criticizing me somebody can make me unhappy; they are fools. Like that. That state is what is real peace.

Question:

And Babaji has often said that everything we do is aimed, either consciously or unconsciously it’s aimed, everything we do is aimed at being simply in peace and happiness. Is that correct, Baba?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, definitely. Even in this world also, everybody knowingly or unknowingly is looking for happiness, peace and happiness. People sometimes misunderstand that peace is not enjoyment, peace is dry – not at all. A real peace is the real enjoyment. It gives happiness. It keeps you always beautifully into yourself. And there is no such dryness or loneliness or low feeling. All these are not at all peace. That means the mind is missing something. It is trying to fool itself. So, this is what happens. And also I have told, mind doesn’t stop by anything of this world. You try to give anything. It will start asking something else or more. It never gets satisfied.

Like, the beginning after my tapas, this was the example I used to tell people when I used to give a talk. You own a bicycle. Your mind goes into craving that you want to have a motorbike. If at all you get a motorbike, then your mind will go into a craving of owning a motor car. And then you want to have a helicopter. You want to have an airplane of your own. So like that, it is never ending; one after another. If at all you get, then the anxiousness that you should not lose that. And you want more. You have one million dollars as your property. Mind keeps thinking, “If another couple of million dollars was there, I could have done this. I could have done that. I could have been more happy, I think”.

If at all that comes by your efforts or somehow, then your mind will not stop. It will start thinking, “Oh, I need to have more, at least ten million. Two, three million imagination was there. Once the three million happens, now the imagination grows, “We want ten million”. Like that people go on imagining. Because in these fifty years of my life in my Guru’s monastery, Ashram, I’ve seen people, very rich people who are millionaires always lamenting that they don’t have enough money. They needed more. “Where do I have the money? So much of expenses are there and we need much more money. We need some more property”. They have bungalows, plots of land in every city of the country, still they keep craving for some more. They want to own another thing. If we can give this, also they would like to own it. Like that, there is no end. Human cravings keep going and growing and growing. Growing – what the word I am using.

So that is how you never have contentment. If the contentment is not there, the peace never comes. Contentment is the most elusive thing for human beings, particularly humanity. That’s how I always keep recollecting reading in a science magazine also: “Earth always has had and will have enough resources to meet the need of humanity, but not its greed.” So, my Guru used to talk of twelve bananas. All of you are familiar with that, that I have spoken. How much you are going to eat, eat four bananas, eat six bananas, at least five, six bananas you try to give to others. If you want to have everything, then conflict will happen. Somebody else also will come to snatch, is also hungry. This is what happens in this world. The world is always into conflict.

Question:

Thank you, Baba. Baba, I was trying to rake up some of the questions for this session. I was thinking back to a question I asked Baba when I first met Babaji, the first or second visit that He came. Baba, it might sound a bit disrespectful, but Baba when He answered it the first time was very gentle. If I could ask this question again, please – it’s not meant to be disrespectful. When I think of peace going on and on, it sounds a bit boring. Could Baba please speak about that a little bit more? He was just touching on it now.

Shri Babaji:

You see, peace itself is not boring. An imagination of the peace, when we try to imagine that peace comes without anything of the world, then that might appear a little bit boring. I have seen some people talking about the silent meditation also; “Very dry and boring. We need to give something else.” Thus, often so many Gurus fail to teach the actual truth, actual clue to go for Self-Realization. Now, listen to the answer. If it appears to be boring in the mind about the peace, it is an imagination and the mind is missing something else of the world which it would have imagined as giving peace or happiness. That is why it is feeling boring. The peace itself is not actually boring. The imagination of the peace sometimes might appear as boring. If that person has imagined the happiness and peace…

Many times people misunderstand, “Just to have peace is dry. We need to have happiness to enjoy.” I want to tell them, peace is what is happiness. Peace is the only thing which can give you a permanent happiness. If you are permanently happy, you are able to enjoy. Enjoyment doesn’t mean that you have to do a disco dance. That is people’s imagination. So, this ‘boring’ also is actually imagination. There is really no ‘boring’. When actual peace descends, it can never be boring. You will never feel the loneliness. As long as there is wanting of something, then only you feel the loneliness and low feeling, all this happens.

 Sometimes I do fail to understand when somebody tells me that “I have a low feeling”. A little bit, I get irritated. “What nonsense, why are you feeling low feeling? Because you are not keeping your mind quiet. That is why you are having this low feeling”, I tell them. Simply when your mind is quiet, where is the chance to become boring?

Question:

Babaji, there is just one last question I had before we ask other people to join and ask their questions. In the scriptures, when they are trying to provide some clues about what the Self is, they sometimes used terms like Sat Chit Anandam. Could Babaji please explain how that is related to His clues which He gives, like peace and energy, consciousness and beyond bliss and so forth, that Sat Chit Anandam term.

Shri Babaji:

Sat means the truth. Chit is in consciousness. Anandam is the peace, supreme peace. See, that truth gives us happiness permanently. This is the simple meaning you need to understand. When in your consciousness you adopt that truth, means that is what is meditation. That’s what when you are trying to achieve silence in the mind, you are trying to adopt the Dhyana, the meditation, the attention to that truth. That is how it will be revealed. That is why the Master is asking you to just watch in between eyebrows, just achieve silence first. As long as your mind is filled with imagination, you don’t understand the essence of silence or quietness, serenity and peace.

Since fifty years I am in this ashram, right? For many years, I used to be alone. Now at least a few people are there, that’s different. But I used to be happy always. Wonderful and serene. But many devotees who would come in evenings for an aarthi and then go away, they used to wonder, “My god, this is such a serene and lonely place. How can you stay in such a place? You don’t feel bored? Don’t feel like going to the city? Don’t feel like going to this place, that place?”

Just a few days ago, a boy was sitting with me asking a question that he said he has a little bit of money, but he wants to go around the world. I said, “You want to go around the world, you will finish this money then what will you eat? Keep this in the fixed deposit. From the interest, if you can go, go anywhere else.” He laughed, “No, no, that money would not be enough from the interest. Babaji, I will have to spend this. But at the same time, I don’t want to spend also because once I spend, then I won’t have any money.” “So you are in a dilemma, double-standard idiot”, I scolded him. “What is this nonsense?” Then he asked me, “Do you think that I should not go around the world?” “I am not telling anything. You can go around the world, but you need to have money which you can spend. You cannot eat the cake and have it too. You should be able to spend it. If you have such money, then go.” “Oh no, no, Babaji, you also go around the world”, he said. “I do go around the world. I go to America, I go to Australia, but I have not seen any places of interest that which you imagine. I go to a place where our hosts make me stay in the host’s place. From there they take me to the venue. I just do my job, teach meditation, give a small talk, initiate people into meditation, answer the questions, then come back to the home of my host. So more than that, I don’t know what is Washington, what is New York, what is this, what is that, I don’t know. You don’t ask me to explain what is all there in New York.” Some people have asked, “Have you visited United Nations building?” I tell, “No”. “Oh, you have not? You keep going to New York every year.” “Well, that is not the purpose to see United Nations that I go to New York. I just go to New York because people invite me who want to learn meditation. I just do my job.”

That is how I said, “Shuka Maharishi also told Janaka Maharaja, “I was going around your town of Mithila. But because my mind was on the candle that it should not fall down, I did not see anything of this Mithila city.” Don’t imagine that you want to go to Switzerland and that Baba also goes to America for that purpose. Your purpose will be different. My purpose will be different.” This is a philosophy actually – for what purpose you go. I have told in my talks also, years ago once Swamiji took one boy from here to Bangalore. After staying there one or two months he came back. He was talking to me, “Sir, now I understand why people go to temples.” I said, “Why do they go?” He said, “They go to see girls.” Imagine, all the way you go to Bangalore and go to a temple and all that is visible is only a girl. There is deity, there is Divine. So, you come to the ashram, you want to have the darshan of the Guru, but instead of that your mind is looking for something else.

So that is how people get cheated. Looking for happiness in something else which is not going to give you permanent happiness, and that’s why the mind doesn’t stop. You watch, if at all you get, you don’t get happiness, you will look for something else. You are not satisfied. The world never gives you satisfaction. Story of Yayati who wanted youth back when he was cursed to become a old person. His son Puru becomes ready to give his youth. That was the boon that he gets. But after going through in the youth form, then finally he gets vairagya. “This body is not going to give us happiness or peace. Indulgence will never give us contentment and satisfaction”, Yayati realizes, comes back and gives that youth to his son back and crowns him as the emperor and retires to forest to meditate.

So, one day to every soul this realization will come. If not today, tomorrow, another life, another life it will come. So this is the truth actually of the peace and happiness.

Question:

Thank you, Baba. Babaji, would it be okay to open up to other people’s questions now if Babaji has time?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, yes, definitely. We can take the questions.

Question:

Namaste, Babaji. Today my meditation was exactly the way you said it would be sometimes, when the mind is over-chattering. So my question is, I know the mind is scaring me, creating all these anxieties and worries. I’m traveling to India, so the mind is scaring me, “What if, what, when”, you know? So, I could not sit in meditation. Does it require one to do longer meditation in order to jump this troubling mind?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, a regular meditation sadhana can help you to keep the mind in the present, now. Otherwise the mind is brooding about the past, is anxious about the future always. We have told, past is meant to learn lessons so that you do not repeat such mistakes. More than that, there is no point in brooding because the past is not going to come back under any circumstances. No such technological thing is there. And the future, you can plan for future, no problem, but don’t have to be anxious about the future. You have to work out in the present. Say for example, you are going to India. You have to work out in the present. You have to find a flight, book the ticket, board the plane and travel. During traveling, you have to rest sufficiently, you have to eat your food. And then when you reach India, you will get to see the things. For that you prepare, be prepared. That’s what spirituality teaches: to face the moment, ready to face the moment.

So, that is what is important. Even Sri Krishna tells Arjuna, “Nobody knows the result of this war. But you have to do your duty. If you do your duty, you might win.” So, that is how if you practice meditation, this mind will always get neutralized into the present, and you will find your peace.

Question:

But I wake up in the middle of the night and I get anxious. So, what do I do that time?

Shri Babaji:

 At that time, try to remember the divine name, some mantra or some devotional music if you are unable to sleep – this one thing is important. If meditation appears to be a bit difficult to sit silently watching, it can be torturesome, so other type of exercises, like listening to devotional music, or you yourself try to sing in whichever tune that is possible. “Surabe, surahen”, anything is no problem. God will not mind, you can keep singing. Like that you can keep your mind busy at least.

Question:

Namaskar, Babaji. On the current topic, I was reading Ashtavakra Gita. So, chapter 1, verse 6. It says, “Virtue and vice, pleasure and pain are of the mind, not a few. You are neither doer nor enjoyer.” So, I had like two questions on this topic that You were saying right now, ‘mine’, and you brought up ‘souls’. So, first question is if I am neither the doer nor the enjoyer, then who’s doing and who’s enjoying it and why am I doing this? And then the second thing, you brought up souls, how do I differentiate mine from the soul, from this perspective?

Shri Babaji:

You see, mind, when it imagines, that is when you feel the pain; happiness or unhappiness. Like, anything that’s going on in the world, if you come to know about it, sometimes it might be painful; a conflict or some suffering. So, if you do not come to know, you don’t feel the pain at all. In the same way, just now, mind is totally sucked into the brain. It is the brain which reflects the pain or not pain, whatever happens in the body. Because if the mind is in touch with the brain, then the pain is felt. So, that is what happens.

Even a yogi also can feel the pain. But whether he is going to suffer or not is a different thing. Pain will be felt if you pinch, if you put a knife into the body of the yogi, he will feel the pain. But he may not suffer it because he has no such imaginations. So, this is what happens. It may be very difficult to understand in this stage; only when you deeply meditate, practice. Then when your attention goes to the real Self, that is what is consciousness of existence, then you realize, being that you don’t touch anything – only through the body you touch, and in the mind you feel about it. But feeling about it itself can be so strongly effective, such is the effect of the consciousness getting attached to someone.

So, when your beloved one is there, you are in no way physically attached to them. However, if anything happens to the beloved one, you will feel the pain. That’s because your mind is so much attached. So, through this mind only all the pain, happiness, unhappiness happens; that is what Ashtavakra is trying to tell. But this practically can be experienced only when you go closer to samadhi, at least, than you will be able to observe about yourself.

Question:

About three or four years ago I start reading Ashtavakra Gita. Then I started meditating on Satchitananda. As you said, watching body movement, and the thoughts. After seven or eight months, I started having headaches around the brow. After some time, this thing lifted. Then before, like, three or four months, I start doing Navi kendra dhyana. So, should I continue Navi kendra dhyana or should I change?

Shri Babaji:

Anywhere you concentrate is no problem for a while. If you are more used to that. But this place [points to inbetween eyebrows] is the teaching because this is closer to the brain. If the mind can come here 100%, then it lifts the body consciousness which is generally known as Kundalini. They both become one mass and gets detached from the brain to go to Samadhi in advanced meditation stages. But if it’s easier for you, Navi kendra also is no problem. Only thing, do not rush or be hard. Do it in a gentle way. Then you won’t feel the headache or any such things. Whether here or the Navi kendra slightly might be better to look at a lower level. You might feel slightly better about the headache. So, you can carry on the practice on the Navi kendra. Simply the mind has to become concentrated and give up its thoughts and visions. Becoming silent is what is necessary, then only it will go towards its real Self.

Question:

Babaji, while we are trying to meditate, Babaji said not to recognize thoughts or visions. As it’s the mind’s nature to immediately recognize a thought or vision, it’s quite a challenge; it seems to be like a huge challenge to overcome, not recognize. So, I was just wondering what Babaji would suggest to do.

Shri Babaji:

One basic thing is a little willpower is needed. Practicing just to watch. Like often in my talks, you are the best people who have listened to me; “If I ask you to watch the microphone, don’t think what it is to whom it belongs to. Just watch.” Mind has a tendency. This happens to almost every human being. So, you have to exercise some willpower. Just watch. We don’t know what it is. Just be a witness. For this world also, we are used to make a recognition and make a judgment. And then we insist, make it an ego.

Like I always give the example of an apple. You see that one. Either you hear from somebody or you yourself recognize it as ‘apple’. Then that becomes even ego. Then if I come and tell “This is not apple, this is actually God”, then you will make fun of me because it is sitting in your mind. Every time this object comes in front of you, instantly it recognizes it as, “Oh, this is apple.” So, if you can resist, keep quiet. Do not recognize it as either apple or God or anything else. Just watch. So, like that you have to practice.

When thought comes, “Let it be – it’s neither happiness nor unhappiness. It can be there. I am not going to bother about this. This is only a garbage that is going out.” Like that you have to think of one thought. Then just try to watch. Think one thought, watch, like that. It requires a bit of practice. At other times also, when during our active life, if we can minimize thinking about unwanted issues, unnecessarily. Means in a rough, rude word, just mind your business of living in this world, whatever that is. Maximum that is necessary, of the dearest or the nearest, you have to eat a little bit of food, live happily, be with your husband. More than that avoid thinking the whole day also.

Try to keep yourself busy with some devotional music or some chant, something like that. And try to read a few pages of one book like Ashtavakra Samhita. Two to three books, not much. Like this, if you keep engaged, gradually your mind gets tuned into just watching. It will stop bothering about the world and just becomes a witness. Otherwise, for general human beings it happens; every small thing becomes a big issue and they get agitated. So, we have to give up this. “It’s okay, no problem. It’s okay”. There is a little bit less salt in the food. “No problem, it’s not an issue”, that type of thing. We all learned like that.

Question:

Pranam, Guruji. Guruji, my question is when our consciousness or atman, unless it actually merges with our mind and body, we cannot experience this pain or pleasure. So, here, who is actually experiencing mind or atman?

Shri Babaji:

Mind is also atma only. That is you. Because of your touch with a brain, you are experiencing. That is the simple thing. Simply in different stages, different terms have been used. When the same is imagining, you call it as mind. When it stops imagining, it is pure consciousness. When permanently it stops, then that is atma. It is the same thing all the way.

Question:

Okay. It means that when we feel pain or pleasure, indirectly our actual consciousness is also feeling that one?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, it is feeling in imagination.

Question:

Okay, okay. And another question, Babaji, even though in our life we know that certain things are wrong, we are not supposed to do, on one side our actual consciousness is telling that it is not supposed to do, but because of there being so much of mental pressure, we end up doing it. So, in that situation, how to control the mind?

Shri Babaji:

It is the habits. When you are habitual, you end up doing. That’s what is known as swabhava, nature of a person. Shri Krishna tells Arjuna, “I know I am teaching you all this. But when you come to action, you are going to do according to your swabhava, you have to be very careful.” So, this you can overcome by a practice of regular meditation only. That is the practical class. That is why spiritual exercises are also told. Other times also try to listen or sing devotional things, music and some chant of name of the divinity. This can divert the attention of the mind and helps it to remain concentrated or meditated towards divinity. Then it slowly gives up getting pressurized. That means your will power increases. Nobody will be able to pressurize you eventually. You will be able to see the truth quickly.

Question:

Thank you, Babaji. I believe I asked this before, but just asking any insight right now about when I am living with somebody who suffers a lot, who is very confused and no matter what, you know, persistent. So, just what is coming, thank you.

Shri Babaji:

I understand. This thing happens, to any human being it can happen. When your beloved one, or somebody dearer to you is suffering, it affects the mind. Only strong meditation, tapas, all these things can be helpful to overcome such a thing. So, continuously you undertake some exercise, listen to divine music is a very good therapy for mind control. So, that means finally you will realize, whatever physically you can help somebody dearer to you if they are suffering, that is a good thing, you can pray for them, but more than that, just by worrying or getting affected, you cannot help anybody.

This is what we all need to realize. This is what I teach. You can help the world; whoever is suffering, you can always feel for them and try to help them. But simply by worrying, you cannot help anybody. This is what is the teaching we try to give. Our blessings.

End of Session