Dedicated to the lotus feet of the divine guru Shivabalayogi Maharaj


Recorded on 14 January 2023 with worldwide participants.

0:00 Introduction from Babaji
2:29 The technology of ‘watching’ in meditation
5:37 What should we do when thoughts come up in meditation?
10:02 Why do people find it difficult to meditate?
16:14 Is it possible to have our attention on two things at the same time?
18:35 Babaji has given us these instructions hundreds of times, but Shri Swamiji received these instructions only once and went into deep meditation and tapas – what is the difference there?
25:20 How to deal with worries about the future?
26:20 Is it ok to use a stronger thought to stop other thoughts?
28:06 How can we prevent other people’s energies from affecting us?
29:26 Is it ok to watch ourselves watching?
30:43 Can I make changes to my life while maintaining a simple life?
32:05 Sound distractions while meditating
33:18 Is an experience of total blankness in meditation ok?
34:32 Is samadhi required to realise the Self?

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 123

Recorded: 14 January 2023 with worldwide participants

Babaji Commences:

Once again, giving you another opportunity to silence your mind, practicing meditation in its real sense.  Just you have to watch in-between eyebrows, that’s all.

Omkaara nada brahma, Ardhanareeshwarah
Sri Jagadguru naatha Shivabalayogeshwaro parabrahma rishihi
Jnana bhakti vairagya siddhyartam, bhikshandehi cha satguru deva
Baandava Guru bhaktascha svadesho Guru charanakamalam.

May the Divine Guru bless you all and make you the most fortunate to obtain His grace and feel inspired to practice all the time to achieve that amazing silence of the mind and thus, awareness of your real Self. 

Start of Questions and Answers

Facilitator:   Pranams Babaji.Out of Babaji’s busy schedule, Baba always takes this time wherever possible to be with us, and just for myself and for the others that come each week, we’d just like to express appreciation for Baba taking that care.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, it was nice; today we had a devotional gathering in the morning at Ashram.  One is being Sankranthi, the Pongal festival when kichidi is cooked, and then we had the second Saturday being a devotional Sundarkand chants from the Ramayana.  So, it was all over by 2:30 pm, and quickly I had my lunch and had an hour of rest.  We were ready.  Came for these classes.  We do enjoy when people like you all can put very intelligent questions. 

Question:   Thank You, Baba.  Baba, this evening we were going to consider the subject of ‘Watching’.  I just have a few short questions and then I was hoping other people might join in with their questions also.  So, first Baba.  Baba has described watching as the central technique of jangama dhyana.  Could Baba talk about the technology of that please?

Babaji Maharaj:   First thing, mind has both capabilities, watching and thinking, two aspects of the mind.  It may not be a hundred percent complete for both; it’s watching and it’s thinking.  So, in this world when you live, when you operate, you tend to watch this world also and also keep thinking in the mind.  But using one of the technologies, that ‘watching’ – if you just try to simply watch and not do the other thing, achieve one hundred percent watching, then the thinking of the mind decreases, decreases and slowly disappears as if there is nothing to think.  Because you are so absorbed in watching.  Here, in this meditation technique, no target is given.  It is not told  whether you are supposed to watch any particular thing or not.  You just watch in-between eyebrows.  Do not watch just the eyebrows, but just watch in-between eyebrows is important.  Because if you watch a certain object, the mind has a tendency to start analyzing, thinking and making judgments – that must be avoided, we need to.  So, just if you watch, slowly, slowly, the thinking all decreases.  And one day this thinking will vanish once for all.  That’s what would happen.  And when this happens, then the attention of the mind turns to itself.  As I have told about the consciousness, wherever you apply the consciousness, you can become aware of that.  So here, understanding this, that you don’t have to apply your consciousness for anything, on anything.  Just keep watching without bothering also what you are watching.  Then, the thinking decreases, then the attention turns to itself.  That is how eventually you can become aware of your real Self as that eternal soul.  So that’s what is very important, technique is to just watch.  That’s why repeatedly we keep telling, “Just to watch in-between eyebrows, just watch.  Do not bother anything.  Do not imagine.  Do not think anything.”

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  So, Babaji, when we meditate, we do find the thoughts come up.  What should we do in that time?

Babaji Maharaj:   Let the thoughts come.  There is a thin edge of the difference between a thought appearing and your mind getting involved with that thought.  Unknown to you, watching every thought, when it reverberates, so we tend to think further on that thought, like analyzing whether this is good, this is bad, “Oh such a bad thing happened.  It is such a bad, painful thing that happened.  So difficult to let go.  So why did those people behave like that one?”  Like this.  At that time, you need to apply willpower – when the thought appears, just ignore, do not bother.  Whatever language you can understand.  Ignoring means keeping quiet, not getting involved with the thought.  You should not analyze anything about that thought.  Whether it is bad or good, we do not know.  Maintain this attitude.  You really do not know.  About this world also, you do not know what is good and what is bad.  So, then you are a witness.  You don’t analyze.  You don’t think about it, “This is bad” or “This is good”.  Just like the robbers, thieves are running away and you are forced to watch them.  Just allow them to run away, that is all.  You do not bother anything about them.  They won’t harm you, anything.  If you get involved, then they will take out knives.  That is the thoughts, means.  They will torture you.  Give you stress more if you try to analyze, start thinking.  You imagine a thought as a bad thought and a thing as a bad.  So, then you become stressful.  But you are unable to give up also.  So, that is what is important.  When such thoughts and visions, anything appears, just do not bother.  Keep quiet and just watch them.  Because if they are in front of you, you are forced to watch, either by the mind or if the eyes are open, by the eyes. 

Here, in meditation, because you have closed the eyes to the outside world, the mind itself is made to watch.  And it has appeared in the mind only.  Not outside the mind.  As long as these things appear in the mind, the mind is forced to watch.  So, watch them.  You don’t get involved further.  That is what is important.  If thoughts or visions come, just watch them, then they will all dissolve or disappear.  Because if you don’t hold on to the thought, the thoughts will disappear.  It is there as long as you hold on.  And also, further you create further thoughts.  Thought after thought, thought after thought.  If you all remember, I have always told in between every thought there is a gap.  That gap is the space.  And that space is what is the consciousness of your existence, means your real form, the atma, what we talk about it.  But because you seldom get to watch that gap, you get attracted to the thoughts.  Just like when you enter a hall, you get attracted to people, wall, fan and so many objects that are there.  You seldom get attracted to space that is there.  We don’t try to think even about the space, its greatness, how amazing it is, its qualities.  Nobody bothers.  We don’t get attracted.  That’s why you do not notice the Divine.  You notice only the world.  Here also, you notice only the thought.  So, if you stop bothering about those thoughts, then the gap increases.  Those thoughts all dissolve.  Then you will be able to see your real Self as that infinite, amazing atman one day.

Question:   Thank You Baba.  Baba, when people begin to practice dhyana, in fact, even after some time, they sometimes say that it’s difficult.  Why?  What is it that is not right if they’re finding it difficult?

Babaji Maharaj:   One is, since time immemorial, since long, long ago, mind has gone out of control.  We started imagining somewhere and we forgot to stop that imagination.  We forgot to keep quiet mentally.  So, we have become habitual.  Life after life, every life, birth and death has been happening to the body.  Next incarnation, next incarnation.  The more that we have been thinking and the mind is spinning, we become diluted, we become tired.  And it splits into layers and layers – like that, millions.  So now, our potency of the mind could be just ten percent.  When it was with its 100,000% it would have started, but it forgot to stop.  So that’s how it has become habitual.  Once it becomes habitual, to give up that habit, it’s the most difficult for human beings.  Because that is how ego also forms.  “What I am thinking is the right thing”.  That is the ego.  “You are a foe.  That’s because I am thinking you are a foe.  I am telling you are a foe, and you are a foe.  I don’t even bother to verify whether you are really a foe or a friend, or what you are.”  Like in today’s world, people can brainwash about a certain person.  One person comes.  “Oh, that person is very bad.  That person is always eating.  That person robs me of my money,” all such things, anything it can be.  And we simply tend to believe that.  We don’t even bother to verify, observe.  Even if we know such a person for twenty years, we should not become a victim of somebody else trying to tell us about that person.  We should be knowing much better.  So, these facts we never bother to verify in our lives.  So, that’s what happens here also.  The mind has become so habitual.  That’s what I also call ‘acquired habits of the mind’.  It has become totally rajasic, stubborn like a king.  “I am not going to give up.”   If one decides that “We need to give up,” and they realize “This is all simply illusion, all these things are there because of my imaginations.  The world is appearing to me like this because of my imagination in that way, whether this is good or bad, either way.”  Either way we are getting involved.  We should be simply dealing with the world only whenever it is necessary to live, and that should be able to stop, withdraw that thinking, that imagination, that creativity – need not be creating all the twenty-four hours, then we lose control over the path also, good or bad are there, always dualities.

  So, we are unable to stick to one good path also.  If it was always a good path, always happiness, then also there wouldn’t have been a problem.  But that has not happened.  Mind, it is getting involved into dualities.  World is made up of dualities always.  If there is happiness, it gets involved into unhappiness also, it cannot keep quiet.  So thus, the mind has become actually habitual and then when you start, it has an upper hand.  Watching that, one tends to lose heart.  That’s what is important.  We must not lose enthusiasm.  “No problem.  All these lives, since time immemorial, it has happened.  Now I am going to take care of these thoughts.  I am going to stop them.  Enough is enough.”  Once you decide like that one, then things become easy.  Like you become tough with the thoughts.  The old saying you all know, “When things get tough, only the tough gets going”.  So, you have to become tough. Tough means firm, determined.  “I need to get rid of these thoughts.”  Humans are very weak.  They simply think, “Oh, I am unable to do it.  Oh, these thoughts are not going.”  We expect always somebody else to do it for us.  Impossible!  Everybody has to deal with their own mind.  They are the ones.  They know their mind.  Nobody else can see that mind.  Scientifically, spiritually, this is the truth.  But yet people expect, “Oh, if somebody else waves their hand and can stop.”   I have also told, if anybody else can wave their hand and stop the mind for everybody and give peace, that day we can call it a miracle, amazing miracle.  But when you put an effort, when your mind stops, that will also be a great miracle, you will get to see.  Simply, you need to be dedicated, disciplined and have patience, with all determination if you try.  And have this attitude that for the last twenty-three years I have been telling – think, though it is very difficult, it is not impossible.  How come it doesn’t happen? It can happen!  The olden-day Gurus used to be very tough with the student.  “How doesn’t it come?   You are not putting an effort, bloody fool.”  They used to cane them and the students used to come on to the tracks.  We are lenient.  We tried to be very sweet with the students, so they go to sleep. 

Question:   Thank You Baba.  Baba, sometimes when we are watching the mind, it is so slippery and it is so quick in the way it moves, it almost seems like we can have two thoughts or have our attention on two things at the same time.  Is that possible?  Or can we really only have attention on one thing?

Babaji Maharaj:   No, mind, it’s possible – some percent it is thinking something and something else also is coming.  Its distraction happens to this mind.  One, two, or three…  so then it won’t be able to attend to one thing properly, particularly also.  That is what we call “Jack of all, but master of none.” That is the old saying.  So, this happens.  We need to be practicing concentration.  When we are attending one thing, we should not be able to attend any other thing.  Then we will be successful in meditation and tapas also.  So, that is what happens.  Even now also, if I am doing something, if somebody comes and talks, I cannot keep doing and talk to them also.  I have to stop working this and then attend to them what they are asking.  Then again, come back to work this one.  That has been my nature since childhood.  If I took up a book, before finishing I wouldn’t keep it down, like that. That is how probably I could do meditation also.  There was determination; I needed, I understood the need.  Always there was a fear, “Any moment this body can go away, my God, before that we must achieve this.  We must quieten the mind; enough of life after life.  This has been thinking, imagining, thinking, imagining.  Because of this only, reincarnations are happening for me.”  When we realized this, “Enough, enough. We must stop.  No more thinking, no more attention to these thoughts, ignore them.  Let anybody be good, let anybody be bad.  What do we have to do?  I don’t know who is good and who is bad really.  When we do not know, why should we boast that we know everything?  We don’t know anything about this world.”  That’s why we keep quiet. 

Question:   Thank You Baba.  Baba, just before my final question, if it’s okay to invite people afterwards to ask questions perhaps on watching or a spiritual topic,  so, the last question I was hoping to ask Baba, please.  Babaji has given us these instructions hundreds of times.  Sri Swamiji received these instructions once, and went immediately into deep dhyana and tapas.  What is the difference there Baba?

Babaji Maharaj:   His inborn nature was like that.  Hang on to it.  “If this is a task, then okay, I will finish the task.  Either do or die” – He had this attitude in Him.  Anything He would take up.  When He realized they were poor people, His mother was working, then He dropped out of the school.  This thought came to him.  “When I go for a degree and master degree, then I will earn some money.  I’m not going to earn any liberation or Self-realization from that.  So, now also I can do the same thing.”   So, He got into the job of weaving saris and dhotis, then He got into the job.  When for the same time others would weave one sari, He would do two saris.  So that type of determination, dedication was there, inborn quality in Him.  That is what is needed.  Hang on to it.  Either do or die.  Like that’s why He instructed me, “When you do tapas, you come out as a yogi or your dead body must come.”  That is all, no third option.  Only two, either this or that, you do or you die, finish.  If you are dead, at least you will die with satisfaction;  “At least I tried and I’m dying with all my efforts.  I was not a lazy fellow.  I was not sleeping and I was putting hard work, determination.”  So, that was the quality that saw Him through. 

Like for example, two, three months later, one day it was very painful for Him to sit in samadhi when He had moved to the graveyard also; and it was rainy season.  All His skin had decayed below His thighs, and rodents were biting, scorpions were biting, and even a snake also bit Him.  So then one day He got up and He started crying, felt like crying in fact.  Then He started getting up and thought, “I must go back home and do some business and earn some money.  Why should I be sitting in this graveyard like a dead man?  I did not request anybody that I want to sit.  Somebody came and he forced me to sit.”  But then the jangama sage was standing at the gate.  He commanded, “You are supposed to do this for twelve years.  That is in your destiny, which has made us to manifest like this one.  Until then, I am not going to allow you to go anywhere.  After that, you do anything you want.”  Then Swamiji turned, “If that is the thing, twelve years is the stipulated period, then I will do it or I will die.  I will not get up, come what may be, any pain, any damage to the body, anything.  If body dies, look, then I cannot continue.  I will not be responsible.  You take care of my body then I will take care of your tapas.”  Like that Swamiji thought and He came and sat, determined.  And that was it.  Next twelve years, simply just like that it went.  He used to tell, “Twelve years tapas was quite easy for me because I was determined.  I was used to.  I just kept quiet, kept watching.  Simply, in-between eyebrows I was watching and the samadhi came like that.”  

So, if everybody can develop this attitude and cultivate, then the meditation will become easy.  They have to watch.  They are not watching.  If the meditation is not coming, they are not watching.  To be able to sit one hour unmoved, whether they are able to concentrate, watch is afterwards.  Even in physical body, at least to be able to sit one hour unmoved, is a big thing for them to achieve.  Now, many of you are able to sit easily.  I can see that one.  After all these years of practice and my talking,  answering your questions, trying to inspire you all.  So, many of you are able.  Still, one or two, three, here and there, they keep opening the eyes, they keep doing something.  They are unable to sit one hour unmoved, because they are not used to.  That’s what when Arjuna asked, “Mind is so slippery,” like you asked.  “Abhyasetu Kaunteya.”  “By practice, O son of Kunti,” Krishna tells.   You see, such mighty souls also spoke about these things only.  Practice every day, practice without giving up.  One day Saturday we come online, all other days are also there; all those days also you should be able to sit for at least one hour, determined.  If the Master says one hour, sit one hour, then see other things.  Twenty-three hours is plenty.  You can earn a livelihood, you can become a businessman, millionaire, anything you can become.  But you just need to sit. In that one hour, just watch, do not bother about anything else.  Everything can be attended afterwards in that twenty-three hours that you have got.  You can dedicate your time to do any other thing.  So, if only you can develop, cultivate this attitude, then meditation becomes easy.  Never give up, thinking that it is not for you.  It is for you, for your sake only that you have obtained the human body.  Again, this chance once in a life cycle of obtaining a human body may not come for a long, long time to come.  Remember this point, do not waste your time, do not take things lightly, be serious, and be determined; you can do it.  And then you can enjoy the life also very beautifully, at peace always. 

Facilitator:   Thank You Baba. 

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  Babaji, my question is about lots of negative thinking about future material insecurity – what will happen if tomorrow I do not have a business or run out of money – these things come, because my focus is more on… there’s a spiritual path.  So, how do you deal with that?  Do you have trust in universe, gods and gurus, or you will leave up to destiny?  Please, some guidance. 

Babaji Maharaj:   You trust – “The one who has brought me to this will take care if he wants me to be in this world.  Otherwise, if this body has to go, let it go” – that simple.  With all determination, think once, “If we get some food we will eat, if we don’t get food we will die, that’s all, this body will die.  I will continue in my next life with more meditation.  Since childhood I will be more determined, I will not be lazy like this.”  Like this you think with determination and it will definitely come.  God will take care of you. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You Babaji. 

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  So, something that I’m still struggling a bit with is when I’m trying to just watch, and the thoughts are trying to creep in.  I’ll use the words in my mind, ‘just watch.’   I’ll hear Your voice, or I’ll hear my voice.  And I know that’s almost like a form of using a mantra and the instructions are no mantra, but I feel like that’s such a simple thought.  And if it keeps out more complex, more complex aggressive thoughts, is it something beneficial or should I just…how do I stop that voice from telling me to just watch?

Babaji Maharaj:   Sometimes you can take help of a stronger voice to stop these many voices, many thoughts like that.  “Enough.  I need to watch” – and then start watching.  Only once you think, and just watch.  Practice like that.  It will go back again, again you bring and watch.  It will come one day.  It will be all right, definitely.  You’ll be able to do it.  Be determined.  Think like that.  If you need, if at all you need a small mantra, small name of the Divine, anything, few times you chant that so that the restlessness of the mind can be brought down.  Or take a long inhale and exhale of the breath also for two minutes so that the restlessness can be brought down.  Then again you try like that. 

Same Questioner:   All right.  Thank You, Baba.  I’ll listen to the strong voice. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Good. 

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.  Babaji, my question is, you know sometimes we need to interact with so many different other people.  How do we prevent their energies from affecting us?

Babaji Maharaj:   By being more strong; you know, your defense forces, defense is your mind.  Mind needs to be strong.  Just like when you are on a journey in a train or in a plane, if somebody talks to you for two minutes, so you cannot afford to feel sad when they go away and you won’t be able to eat, you won’t be able to sleep.  Such thing doesn’t happen.  Just on the way you meet some people.  It is needed for a job or for any other purpose.  That’s it and then forget.  Don’t bring that thing to your home.  Leave it there.  So, like that you practice, you strongly think, “I don’t have to carry this.  What is this nonsense? If somebody had some opinion, they told their opinion, I told my opinion and we had some interaction, that is all, I don’t have to take so seriously now anymore.”  Like that positively you think and then you can do it.  Be strong.  You will be able to do it. 

Question:   Babaji, I was hoping to ask if I could please.  Some people describe an experience of watching themselves watch.  Is that okay or is it not a correct technique?

Babaji Maharaj:   They can try.  If they can watch themselves, all thoughts will cease to exist.  It will disappear.  Because the Self is one such thing.  The moment you are able to watch it, you are able to watch only through the mind.  Then the mind becomes quiet automatically because the Self is in real, total mahasamadhi silence.  That’s what it is.  The closer your mind goes to the Self it becomes silent and quiet automatically.  So, people think that they might be able to watch.  It is not easily possible.  However, they can try.  The one who is watching… It is the same thing like watching the consciousness of existence.  So, that is the one which is watching, you think.  So, then you try to watch that one.  The moment you are able to watch, thoughts will all definitely decrease. 

Question:   Good morning, Baba.  Thank You again so much for being with us.  My question today is about changes.  As I am trying to develop this habit of watching, it feels like I will benefit from keeping my life as simple as possible, as few changes as possible.  Just let things around me be.  I don’t need to change anything.  Just let them stay the way they are and watch.  But I also have this feeling that there are things in my life that I want to change, maybe move somewhere different or this or that.  So, my question is, can I keep my life simple and watch, and still be making these changes at the same time?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, definitely.  All these things are three different things.  When you have to watch, just watch, when you have to change, just change, when you cannot change, just accept it.  As simple as that.  You follow this formula and command, then you will be able to watch in meditation very easily. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You. 

Question:   Yes Babaji, I want to say that while watching in meditation, I am able to watch, but my hearing starts.  My hearing starts very noisily.

Babaji Maharaj:   That is because you are not actually watching.  You tell, “I am able to watch, then the noise starts.”  It cannot happen like that.  If you are really watching, no noise comes.  It becomes silent totally.  So, continue watching and don’t try to analyze that sound also.  It will disappear if you don’t notice that sound. 

Same Questioner:   Like the chirping of the birds and things also, is wrong?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, anything, let it come.  You try not to notice them.  Do not notice.  Concentrate on what you are watching.  Then that will all disappear. 

Same Questioner:   Is it really like when you are watching, then the real hearing stops, hearing from the ears?

Babaji Maharaj:   Everything stops.  You become totally silent.  You would have withdrawn all indriyas.  Okay, my blessings. 

Question:   Babaji, I bow at Your Lotus feet.  Babaji, when I close my eyes, there are no thoughts, but there is total blankness for some time.  Am I on the right track?

Babaji Maharaj:   Ah, you see, the very thing that you are recognizing as a blankness itself is a thought.  The thought is there, that’s why the blankness is appearing.  It is not the blankness.  It is simply there.  You don’t think about it.  Just continue watching.  Then your mind will become totally quiet.  Then the one who is watching also becomes aware.  You will become aware of yourself.  There is no blankness.  Don’t bother about any blankness at all.  Don’t think it is a blank.  Then the watching will be progressive. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You Babaji.

Question:   Hari Om Babaji.  Is samadhi required to realize the Self, Babaji? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, mind totally becoming silent and samadhi are both same.  When the mind becomes totally silent, it goes to samadhi.  That’s when its attention goes to itself and you become aware of yourself as that atman.  Practicing silence of the mind itself is enabling the mind to go into samadhi

End of Questions and Answers

End of Session

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