Recorded on 17 August 2023 with Malaysian participants
0:00 Introduction
0:16 How can we practice unconditional love in our daily lives?
21:10 The concept that we all exist and belong to one single space
28:08 How can develop the mother concept within us?
32:20 Mother’s Kunti and Gandari, who is right and wrong in their behaviour?
34:31 How do we prevent hating people who do wrong to us?
36:21 Why does our body move or shake in meditation?
Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 146
The Mother Concept and the One Single Space
Recorded: 17 August 2023 with Malaysian participants
Start of Questions and Answers
Question: Babaji, the topic for today’s questions is “Mother concept and consciousness.” Babaji has said that, “Real love should be from the depth of the heart forgiving and unconditional like a mother’s love. This is only possible when you can see yourself everywhere, all-pervading, in everything as everything. That’s the real love. Otherwise, it is for the sake of lust and greed.”
Babaji, it is hard to put into practice what we have learned from our Divine Guru as the challenge is – most of the time we give unconditional love and care, but seldom receive it in the same way. At times, this leaves one exposed to be heard or betrayed repeatedly. Where do we draw the line? Why is it so hard to practice unconditional love? Most of the time it comes with expectations and demands. What should we do in these situations?
These days parents and children are in conflict and not in talking terms, husband and wife are separated or divorced as they cannot see eye to eye. Families don’t stay together as they used to. People go through so much stress in life and they don’t see giving unconditional love and receiving love as their priorities. Self-gain and material possession becomes the priority. Please enlighten us Babaji on how we all could overcome these challenges spiritually.
Babaji Maharaj: Well, it is the same thing – we have forgotten spiritual practices. We have advanced through science, technology, so many fields and we are excited by the achievements, discoveries and inventions, but we forgot to look after our minds. So, generations after generations… now present generations have been unable to exercise patience or understanding. They are totally self-centered – “I don’t like this; I don’t like. I cannot stay with you; I cannot stay with you. That’s not possible.”
You see, in our times, like for example, a relationship with our Guru was like a child’s relationship with the mother. Even we tried, we could not stay away from the Master, we came back. We never bothered if anybody tried to make fun of us, if it was a shame or any such thing, no problem. “I need my Guru. I will come back.” So, that was our thinking. But the generation gap has happened. People even don’t hesitate to sue a Guru, blame a Guru, attack a Guru, anything they can do. They get into such vengeance. The same thing in the families, parents and children these things are happening, between husband and wife, families, is happening.
See, in olden days we saw, always it is very likely that there is a difference between two people, because when you get married means two people of different temperaments and attitudes are trying to come together. We always advise them such a difference must not be a real issue or a problematic thing. You can express your views. They can express their views, but respect each other, love each other. Finally, the relationship must go on; that is important. Like Swamiji jokingly used to tell, “Whole day you can quarrel, but before leaving, both of you greet each other ‘Ram Ram’, so that you can come and meet again tomorrow.” So, that used to be the attitude earlier days, but now, no, we want separation, we just want to go away, we don’t want to look into the face. These things are happening; people have no patience. This is because proper spiritual exercises are not happening. Otherwise, in our days, when we were kids or olden days, every house used to have an altar and house people used to worship God and chant some mantras and stotrams. Stotrams means in praise of the Divine; we used to chant all these things. Then used to do japams, used to meditate, used to listen to devotional songs; all these things kept the mind non-violent and at peace, forgetting and forgiving. Let go of the things was very easy, but not for the present-day generations. They are unable to let go of the things. They think they are the only right people, the rest is all wrong. God is wrong, the Guru is wrong, the parents are wrong, everything is wrong. They are the only ones who is right. Thus, they try to hide every wrong thing of theirs by blaming others extensively. They attack – before the other can blame them, they start blaming the other extensively so that what their shortcomings a lid can be put on that one so nobody bothers to notice. They confuse everybody by blaming extensively. This is what is happening.
So for that, only remedy is everybody follows spiritual exercises sincerely, then relationship can build up, patience can come, understanding, better understanding can come. So, this is what is important. Regular meditation of one hour, that’s why it is recommended. Then the mind cools down, it becomes non-violent and it doesn’t go into such violent things. Many years of staying with a Master, if you haven’t done proper sadhana, then the mind goes into such violent, expressive things, exclusively blaming the Master Himself, they don’t hesitate; they don’t hesitate to kick the Master or do anything to the Master, just like that, because it is their selfishness that is more important. Like they come and they expect the whole Mission to happen according to their wishes. Whenever they want, they be allowed to do anything, whenever they want otherwise, they start telling, “We are deprived of this, we were deprived of this,” they start complaining. We cannot complain that “Bhai, you are not working properly, you are not doing sadhana.” They get annoyed, “How dare the Master telling us like this.?” And children get annoyed, “Why are parents pointing fault to us? Parents have no business. I am going to go away, I will do whatever I want, I am not going to listen to you.” They don’t try to see the pros and cons, consequences, what can happen in the family, what can happen.
Throughout the life parents love the children, they give birth and they bring up the children so affectionately, caringly. Once the youth comes, children just don’t want to bother about parents, they just look for their own happiness as, “This is mine. I am going to do this one. Why should I listen to parent?” They don’t bother about that at all. Then, when the consequences happen, they again come running, they realize, but by then many times it would be quite late, so this is so important. The spiritual exercises only can change the mind. Simply by talking, giving lectures or teaching, nobody wants to listen. They listen forty years, but again they go on doing the same thing. I have seen great people doing this type of mistakes during Swamiji’s time. They remained so much attached, so much loving, they showed so much devotion; as if they were ready to do anything for them, but one day came, they were not ready to sacrifice their ego. They forgot the Master. I have seen this. Means, this is just for education an example is being given, not necessarily be a Master and disciple’s relation only, it can be parents and children relationship, husband and wife; like this thing, many relationships in the world gets affected. Husband-wife… That’s why many people don’t want to get married nowadays. They want to be just partners. As long as it is convenient, it’s okay. One fine day they don’t get along with each other. “No, I want to go to Australia,” another says “No, I want to stay in America only, I’m not going to come; this is my place.” So, they fight and they don’t like each other. They start living separately also. Slowly, slowly the relationship gets spoiled. First, they go separately, then they sit to eat at one place again, then they start eating separately also, then they say “Let us separate, let us give a divorce if we are married. If it is partnership there is no problem, I will go my way; you go your way.” They pack up their suitcase and just keep going. Whatever they have, properties, they want to share it with each other and just go on, they will try to find some other partners. It’s as if just this chocolate is not enough, “I’ll buy another chocolate” type, but in olden days we gave human relationships so much of importance because lot of emotions can be involved. That’s why many things were called bad things, bad habits, wrong habits. You need to be careful, not get emotionally carried away. So, all elders used to come together and organize marriages for their children, then they also used to look after, intervene if necessary, advise: “This is not proper. Both of you get along together, forget and forgive, learn. You argue, no problem, then forget about it. Keep the relationship intact.” Only, in an extreme condition, if the other spouse is not at all ready to listen, is going to torture the other, then only you have to think.
Like you see, when I have to make a judgment, I will make judgment at the level of the Mission. Means, if any one person, a devotee or anybody is really dangerous to Mission, wants to destroy the Mission, wants to call all my work as idiot – idiot and foolishness what I have been doing, then we make a judgment, “This person is not proper for the Mission.” Otherwise, hundred times, one-thousand times, million times I can forgive people and let go of the things; they would have called me all names, but we are ready to forget and forgive, let go the thing. You do sadhana, the disciples, let them do sadhana and achieve the peace for themselves. At least the sadhana is not fraud. You call me fraud – it’s okay, no problem. What fraud? I am just asking you to meditate. All this one hour you all try to meditate. Is not this a sincere thing? To help your mind, purify your own consciousness; thoughts and corrupted thoughts should not be coming so that you just watch in between eyebrows. And I am not asking you any money, I am not asking you your property. I don’t need that one. On their own when people have donated, we have built Ashram and that Ashram also we run it for devotee’s sake. We are happy if devotees come and they want to stay.
So, that is what happens. So unfortunate, humans have gone down to that level, they are unable to control their emotions, they are totally selfish, unable to control the anger, just want to give up, “That’s it, we don’t want to look at the face of the Master; we don’t want to look at the face of parents at all; I don’t want this husband, I don’t want this wife, I will look for somebody else.” These things were in very bad taste for the old-cultured people. Today it may not be; people may not think: “We don’t like, we will go somewhere else, we will look for some other partner” – but these things were looked as if it was a very bad taste. We are human beings. We are not animals to do like that one – that used to be there. But today, it has gone. We cannot blame any single person. I am just talking for educational purpose only. I don’t direct against any person or group of people like that, but we have felt it bad. For this, if the mind is pure consciousness, if the corruption of the mind has been overcome, then we will be able to think.
Whatever we undertook, we wanted our parents’ blessings. Even when I wanted to come and join the Ashram, I took my mother’s blessings. Without convincing her, perhaps I wouldn’t have come; that was our nature. But luckily for me, my mother understood, she blessed me. She took a promise that “You must achieve, don’t come back.” All these things happened, supported me and then I could come to Ashram, and we never looked back. “That’s it. My master is my Master at all times”. Even after He has passed away, He dropped his physical body, I saw many people trying to go to other Masters because they wanted to be VIPs always. After some time, they realized and they went back. I used to wonder, “Where has Master gone? He is with us. He has taught us so many things for so many years, we will do that sadhana. Why do we need another Master? We don’t want to be a VIP, in the corner is good – just to call myself “I am a Shiva Balayogi devotee and disciple.” That’s it. We will never look back. Simply, Swamiji has dropped the physical body, we don’t go for looking for another Master. We don’t need. Swamiji has taught us enough for us to do sadhana and achieve Self-realization.” That is the relation. He was like my mother, He was like my father; when He lived with us physically it was like God living with us. Today, He may not be physically around but we are able to feel His presence; He is with us. We cannot look. We can respect other saints, no problem. We don’t have anything against anybody but a Guru is only one, “This is our Guru. Shiva Balayogi is our Guru. we don’t require any other Guru.
We learnt enough from Him. Swamiji taught us so much. He was ready to teach everyone, but people did not learn. They just came, sat, ate sambar bath and went away, then when Swamiji passed away, they were missing, they wanted to go to some other master, but they were clever also, “O Swamiji has handed me over to this Master and I am going there.” What was the need? They never understood Swamiji’s teachings, that was why they wanted to be emotionally with somebody else, that was all. Swamiji taught them enough. “Meditate, meditate, meditate,” He always told, but people did not meditate; they were sitting and gossiping with Him; they wanted to do something else – “Swamiji is it okay if I am doing this, if I am doing that.” “It’s up to you, you do anything.” Like Swamiji also used to say, “For education I tell, if they do not want to listen, what can we do, it’s up to them, their choice. We cannot impose anything.” Like that, Swamiji used to tell us, lament us. “Why do these people go away, Swamiji?” “It is their nature, they are self-centered, they want to be VIP, whoever can give them VIP-ness and praise them always, there they go.”
So, these are all the things that we need to think and understand the pros and cons, what’s going to happen. If we do a certain act, what will happen to our parents, what will our family people think, our friends think, our teachers think, our Guru think if I do this? So, that type of thing. We learned in our life with the Guru. When He taught us, we patiently learned. We might have done some mistakes sometimes, no problem, but we were ready to learn. That did not make us to leave Him and go away. We were with the Master at all times. I tested, I knew I could not stay without my Master, there was no question of blaming the Master; I thought I am to be blamed, I was an idiot, so let me go to the Master; let me be with the Master all the time. There was no ego, there was no shame. If I have to go back to my mother, what is the shame in that. It’s my mother, I will go back after all.
So, the mother and child’s relationship you see, concept of the mother. That is why Swamiji used to tell, “If you want to be a saint, you need to have the heart of a mother, compassion of a mother, who can unconditionally forgive her children, loves at all times, simply wants that her children be happy, wherever they are, whatever they are, her blessings will be with the children.” Like that we also today, my Master taught us, being a Guru, whoever has gone away from us, no problem, we bless them, we pray for them – let them have their happiness, let them have their enlightenment. It’s no problem. So, I have nothing to lose. We will pray for them, we will bless them like a mother. They are my children, they can go away, no problem, they can kick on my stomach or heart, they can go away, no problem, but we will forgive, we have nothing against them. Even if we scold them, we don’t want them to acquire any karmas, like a mother; that is the Mother concept.
That was why Swamiji, many times has told this story of Mother concept also – when the Creation was to happen, enormous amount of fire engulfed because of the friction of the energetic concentration, so whatever was being created, that fire engulfed everything, all the creation went into that fire. Then Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva concepts came up and Sanaka, Sananda, the yogis together prayed to that fire, “Please transform yourself as the kindest mother, so you shall be the Mother, give away the Creation from your womb, O Mother, you be the Bhuvaneshwari, O Goddess, Adi Para Shakti.” They prayed, “You are the invincible, first energetic force of the Divinity. Please become compassionate and forgive your Creation.” So, she got transformed as Bhuvaneshwari, Mother Goddess, the enormous amount of the fire energetic force, and gave away the World, the Universe, the Milky Way, galaxies everything from her womb. That is how Swamiji used to tell. Swamiji sometimes used to tell “I have hundred children in my stomach also. You know, all are my children.” Like that He used to love.
So, these are the points I wanted to make out for these questions. It was a very lovely question, very important. I hope people will understand. We are not against anybody; again, and again I will emphasize. Just for education whatever comes to me, whatever my Guru has taught me, whatever He inspires me, I go on answering. You all think if this makes any sense.
Question: Thank You Babaji. The next question. We all exist and belong to one single space. This knowledge and wisdom is what gives you the ability to love unconditionally, because we are loving ourselves, not with this narrow body but with the vast boundless space as ourselves. That is the Supreme Consciousness.
Babaji, please tell us more about this concept.
Babaji Maharaj: Perhaps when the question of consciousness expanding came way back in 2001 when I had first started traveling after my tapas, that time itself this example came out of me, telling – you see, you live in a town. If people ask you where are you from, you will tell your house number, your street address, like that, you will tell “I belong to this house; that is where my home is.” When you go out of the town, you will tell the name of the town, “I am from Delhi, I am from Washington, I am from Perth, I am from Kuala Lumpur.” Like that, you will tell. You won’t be telling your house number. See, the consciousness expands from a small home, now you belong to a big city, big home. You go out of the state in the country to some other state; if you are asked where are you from, if you will tell your state, “I am from Selangor, I am from Karnataka, I am from this state,” like that your state’s name. Now from a small town, city, you started belonging to a big state. All the state appears to be yours. The consciousness expands within you – “I am not belonging to one house; I belong to this state.” Then the country comes. When you go out of the country you will mention the name of the country, “I am from Malaysia, I am from India, I am from America.” Like that you will tell, continent and the country’s name. So, all the country people appear to be your own brothers and sisters, means your own family member’s type. If you meet somebody else from your country, you’d be so happy “Are you also from there?” “Yes, I am also from that country.”
So, I have told finally, if you get a chance to go out of planet earth to some other planet, where other people might be living there, then you come across a person from the planet earth, you will be so happy. If anybody asks “Where are you from,” you will tell, “I am from planet earth.” See, from a small home, from a state, from a country, Vasudeva Kutumbakam, the whole world is yours now. All people, all species living in that world, is all your own family people, your own people. Like that, the consciousness expands. So, finally, one day when we realize we all belong to one space – there are no two, three different spaces actually. Though we might be dividing “This is our airspace, this is our airspace,” that is different thing. But in existence, if you see, only one space, one single Self. That’s what the Ultimate Truth that exists, all-pervaded, boundless; you travel any amount of distance, you travel, nautical miles, millions and millions, you go beyond the Solar System, you go beyond Milky Way and galaxies, you go beyond, the same space is there also. It is the same space which is holding the entire creation. So that is another, the story that I have narrated from the earlier days itself – When Adi Shankara was going to have a bath in river Ganga, holy river Ganga, the story said that the divine Lord Shiva came as an untouchable person in front of Him, keeping a country-made alcohol pot on His head. So, watching Him, Adi Shankara tells, “Give way! (dooram gaccha), go away from me.” Then that person tells, “It is the Brahmanda, same Brahmanda that in which you live, I also live. If there is any place beyond Brahmanda, show me.” Brahmanda means, for them, the one boundless space. “Beyond the space, if there is any other place, show me, then I will go away, giving this space for you. This space will be yours. You can keep this, but you have to show me if there is any place beyond the space.” Amazing, it was amazing. Adi Shankara immediately thought, “O my God, this is not an ordinary person. He has such a knowledge and wisdom in His consciousness. He is pure and He is equivalent to my Guru.” So, Adi Shankara prostrates. The story says, then the Divine Vishwanatha, He disappeared like that one. Then Adi Shankara understood “This was none other than Lord Shiva who came to test me and teach me all these things.”
So, that was the thing, Brahmanda means. One Brahmanda, one single space. If only our humanity on this earth particularly understands that we all belong to one space, peace and harmony can descend. Everybody needs to become non-violent. If only two people are non-violent or four are violent, it won’t work. The four will kill these two non-violent people in today’s world. They will have to defend themselves. We wanted to be non-violent, at peace, then the opponents would have usurped the entire Ashram and cut all the lychee trees, everything they have washed away. So, we had to stand up and fight, and defend our Ashram because that was established by our Guru for sake of public utility, so this is what happens. If they also wanted to live peacefully there, we all could have lived peacefully; that would have been possible, but they didn’t want to understand. They want to do whatever they wanted to do, so that is when conflicts arise in this world also. If all human beings can meditate, become non-violent, learn to live in peace and honor to each other, how beautiful the world could be; we always dreamt. Still all the resources are there. All humans could have lived peacefully. Simply, all wanted that they all live in their places, without any borders if that day can come. That is the humanity. Let us dream for that one. So, this is like that example that we always try to tell, that we all belong to one single space.
Question: Thank You Babaji. Babaji, when You are talking about the Mother Concept and consciousness, how do we develop that within us? Is it through meditation that this Mother Concept feeling will come to all of us or what other ways we can do to practice this?
Babaji Maharaj: You see, it is a very sensitive thing, people need to understand. So, we become a Mother Concept does not mean that anybody can kick in our stomach; we will not allow that one, because if we allow that we are spoiling the other people. If mother allows her children to misbehave with herself, then she is spoiling the children; she should put the right sense in them, and pull them up so that when they go out also, they can behave properly. If they develop such habits, they will behave the same way with everyone. That is why a mother needs to pull up the child if they are doing some mistake. It is necessary that the child respects the mother, then their character will develop, culture will develop, then they will understand what the world is, they will be able to respect others also. So, this is very, very important for a Mother’s Concept, means we have to be, but we don’t have any hatred in our mind. Even if somebody wanted to usurp Ashram’s land, we didn’t have, we don’t have even today, any personal hatred towards any persons; it is not a personality clash. It was the principles clash. We needed to defend a public utility place called Ashram. Swamiji established that for sake of devotees, not for Himself. He did not give it to any other relatives that as a property, hereditary, nothing. He left it for devotees only, so all devotees need to come sit and meditate, means that place needs to be peaceful, otherwise devotees will be disturbed. Nobody would like to come if there is a fight every day. So, for that we had to work. That is necessary. Whereas we will not have any hatred, we don’t spread hatred, we don’t keep talking about those people as wrong people all the time, but we said, “Hey, this is the reason. If anybody asks, “What happened,” then we have to say, “This is the reason, “We had to defend the institution. That is all.” Like that we have to behave, but in our heart there is no hatred, because we need to keep our heart pure, our mind, our consciousness pure.
If God wants to forgive them; we don’t want them to be punished all the time. If they realize, “God, please inspire their wisdom so that they realize their mistakes.” That is all, and they can live peacefully. We can live peacefully. Otherwise, we will have to defend. So, that is all we have to be. So, we have to take care of our mind, so that our mind shall not become corrupted by any hatred or dislike, but at the same time, we defend our country, our culture, our world. If anybody attacks from outside the world, we all have to come together in the world, and the world will have to defend itself, otherwise they can wipe out everybody on this Earth. So, like that consciousness has to expand, and we all need to defend. Finally, we need to defend ourselves from our own corruptions of the mind, do not allow any corruptions to enter our mind. That is the defense that is needed for everybody. If we all meditate, we can take care like that one.
Question: Thank You Babaji, there are a few questions in the chat. Can I read the questions?
Babaji Maharaj: Yes please, yes.
Question: First question, mother’s Kunti and Gandhari, who is right and wrong in their behavior?
Babaji Maharaj: See, whatever wrong they did, when Draupadi was brought to the court by Duryodhana and others, Gandhari could have walked in there and protested, scolded her children, “First you disrobe me, you kill me first and then touch Draupadi.” So, then the Mahabharata war wouldn’t have happened; her own children wouldn’t have died. She must have protested against her husband also. “You might be the king, you might be the emperor, you might be my husband, but you are doing a wrong thing. How can you allow your daughter to be disrobed? Let them disrobe me. Will you allow that one, Duryodhana? Would you like to disrobe me?” If she had behaved like that, she would have been right.
Question: Thank You Babaji.
Babaji Maharaj: Kunti should have pulled up Yudhisthira and all the Pandavas. “What were you doing? Why didn’t you defend that lady called Draupadi? You gave up your right against her by playing dice game, that is a different thing, but you did a wrong thing when you are watching, when a lady was about to be disrobed. If they had tried to disrobe me, would you have allowed me?” Kunti should have asked. Somewhere, something, both were wrong. It did a small wrong and a big war happened. We get to see this Mahabharata story very often. Somewhere, we all do some mistake and wars happen; people start fighting. It’s not easy to decide who was wrong, who was right. A small opinion from us like this; they could have done this we thought.
Question: Thank You Babaji. Another question. How does one prevent from hating people who do wrong to you? Like how Babaji does not hate anyone who has gone against the Ashram.
Babaji Maharaj: That is why if you practice meditation and the Divine’s name chanting, then your mind will become purified, then you will be able to think about that and reason it down. You see, somebody attacks the Ashram or somebody attacks your home, you need to defend your home. You cannot allow somebody to take away your home. Fine, once the job is done, there is no more entertaining in the mind, any hatred or any wrong things or thinking; all the time you have to be annoyed or you keep scolding in the mind – no need. It’s over, that fight is over, then they go their way, we go our way, that’s fine. Let us move on. We don’t keep talking the same thing all the time, we need to be busy by doing other works. So, like that, you reason out. You think, if you think badly all the time in your mind, you are wasting your energy, you are wasting your time, you are corrupting your own mind and you are the casualty; you may not be able to do anything to the other who would have gone long distance. In the same way, if they also hate us, what can they do to us? We are happy and we are just doing our Mission work. They are becoming corrupted and they don’t have any other job to do, that means. They need to move on, forget about it. Like that, you have to reason out, think, then you will understand what the truth is.
Question: Thank You Babaji. The last question is from someone asking about meditation. Babaji, why our body moves or shakes by itself while we do meditation?
Babaji Maharaj: It should not shake actually. Two things are there. If you have become habitual to keep moving bodily, so that prevents the mind to become quiet. That can always give a jerk to the mind to go on spinning and go into imaginations. So, you need to take care that your body should be stationary and steady. Other reason is, if rhythm of respiration goes very slow and tries to stop sometimes, then this movement can happen. You take care that both are looked after; one is your respiration should go on smoothly inhale and exhale, do not starve yourself off oxygen, that is very important. By practice it should go on, and your concentration should be in between eyebrows, this is important. Other than that, if you have a habit, developed a habit unknown to you, take care because these habits are what makes a person go into a wrong or a right path. This needs to be rectified, important. If you are unnecessarily moving, don’t enjoy that moving; you must stop, enough. Body needs to be steady, then only you can control the mind to become steady and quiet. Remember this point.
Facilitator: Thank You Babaji. There are no more questions Babaji.
End of Questions and Answers
Babaji Maharaj now concludes the session.
Wonderful, I will just go to a gallery view so that we can say bye-bye to everyone. Wonderful, bye-bye to all of you. It was a very nice evening. I am so happy some lovely questions came, giving me an opportunity to share my experiences and what my Guru taught, what my thinkings are. All my love and blessings to all of you, to everybody in this world. All our love and blessings. May you all be blessed by the Divine Guru.
Take care, it’s time for me to disappear now. We will come back again. Be with us. Practice meditation every day!
End of Session