0:00 Introduction
1:56 What is the key motivation that keeps Babaji going on the spiritual path?
9:40 Is being disciplined an in-born quality or can it be cultivated and if so how can we cultivate it?
18:13 Is having a strong goal important to help us stay disciplined?
21:57 How to avoid our discipline from weakening if our motivation fades?
32:37 When things are not going our way how can we stop negativity?

Developing discipline and endurance to do spiritual sadhana – online Q&A, No.131
Recorded on 18 August 2022 with Malaysian participants.

Introduction : Thank you, Babaji. Babaji, our topic for today’s Satsang; “Developing Discipline and Endurance to do Spiritual Sadhana”.

Babaji: Good.

Introduction: So Babaji, before we start with the question, from my experience and understanding of how most of our lives are, when we are young and we are growing up, we first learn about discipline from our parents telling us what to do, what not to do, practices and all that. And we are sort of guided in that sense. Then as we go to school or college and all that, you have your teachers, you have the system there that teaches you what is the right thing to do, what are the practices you need to do and all this while there are people, there are systems that are guiding us to be disciplined, to stay within the path. And when you sort of go out of the path Babaji, there is a punishment so that you will come back to the path, and if you stay within the path there is a reward that encourages you to stay within that path. But once you come out of the system and you are so-called on your own, I guess that is where that self-discipline, that we need to train ourselves to be disciplined. That is the challenge that most of us have Babaji. So I would like to start with the first question.

Questioner: Can you share with us Babaji, what is your key motivation that keeps you going on this spiritual path?

Babaji: For me, one thing, the spiritual journey started when I read Adi Shankara’s Bhaja Govindam song. The second, third and fourth line reads as “Samprapthe Sannihite Kali, Nahi Nahi Rakshati Dukrin Karane”. Means when death comes to your physical body, none of your worldly knowledge, wealth, wisdom, power, anything cannot come to your rescue. This had an amazing impact on my mind about death. What is death? Who is going to die? Why is that we have to die and disappear from this world? What really happens when we die? So these things. And then we set a goal, “I must know the secrets of this”. So that kept me going all the time; we wanted to achieve. And on the way as we came across some great Self-Realized Masters like Adi Shankara, Ramana Maharishi and Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, their teachings also created an impact. And what we learned was, apart from keeping ourselves disciplined, we need to develop an individual thinking, application of wisdom, what the Truth is, what we need to be, in what way. So like that we thought, and as we had set a goal, so that kept it and after I came across these Self-Realized Masters, another goal came which came in the form of prayers to God. “God, bless me to have a Self-Realized Master who would have liberated himself and who can liberate me from the bondage of ignorance and the bondage of the bhavanas, the mind’s feelings, all these things”.

So thus we started praying and finally we were guided to Swamiji, our beloved Shivabalayogi and once I met Him I fell in love with him, that love was natural. No amount of obstacles, tests or anything could ever disturb that love to him. So we set that target, so that kept us going simply. On the way whatever comes; positive, negative whether we liked it, we didn’t like it, all these things but we never analyzed or never made any judgment, “Oh, this is enough now we will go away from here”, not like that. We loved Him, means, see that became a question of self-respect. “Now I am going to love, who can stop this love to my Master? No power, not even God should be able to deviate us by from loving my Master, He is my Master”. So that type of a satvic ego sat in. This saw me through throughout my life at the lotus feet of Swamiji and we were in the society in this world only. So we had to see all positive, negative, good, bad, right, wrong, everything we saw. But these things sustained us, gave us enormous patience, that endurance came slowly. As more and more the tests came, so we became more determined; “Now we must go”. So if you all would have received today’s quote, also is on this direction only. So that’s what we wrote – when Swamiji used a negative language to test my determination, to test whether I really want to go on this path, whether I am ready for a Tapas, so that gave me more determination. And I used to tell myself, “Now Swamiji you have been negative to me like this. Now I am going to love You more, You cannot stop me loving You, even You cannot”. So that’s what the thing is. That is the final thing. You love somebody and that somebody is going to stop you from loving that person by being negative, by being so many other things, testing in many ways  – that didn’t deter us from loving Him. I said, “We will love You. It is now more that we will love You”. So like that, we developed endurance and discipline within us.

Because we had set a target – we needed that liberation, and we knew the Master has that liberation. He has achieved. His Tapas, His own life, His teachings were all amazing and wonderful. The same thing which we needed, that was His Tapas. So I knew that is there in Him. Closely I saw Him like that. So that sustained and helped me to develop the endurance and discipline. I never considered discipline as a bondage. Many times in the present day generation particularly, youngsters consider discipline as a bondage. You see, I remained disciplined for twenty years, as long as Swamiji was physically alive. And then five years I remained disciplined inside the room just meditating. So these things saw me through to achieve Self-Realization. If I had not been disciplined, say after a few years just got deviated, “No, I have to do something else, I cannot go on this path. This is not for me”. I did not think even in my wildest dreams even for once. But the tests came. Swamiji was much more tough. At least now I talk very softly, I explain and I take questions, I try to make people understand, I don’t lose temper easily, I keep myself very cool. But Swamiji was very hot tempered.  Just at the moment, drop of a hat, He used to become annoyed and started shouting for a long time. Just that I was wearing a sacred thread He was so annoyed and furious, it would continue for forty to forty-five minutes, like that He would be shouting. But we remained more determined. Present day students, I wonder whether they can sustain even for a couple of hours with Swamiji if Swamiji was alive. [laughs] So this is some of the things that I could tell from my own experience what you wanted to know.

Same questioner: Thank you Babaji. So the next question, is being disciplined an inborn quality or can it be cultivated, and if so how do we cultivate it Babaji?

Babaji: To some people it can be an inborn quality, to hang on to it. That becomes a discipline. Like Swamiji Himself he had that inborn quality. Any work He took up, His attitude from childhood was “Do or Die”. That’s it. If at all the effort is going to stop, it will stop only when we die – not till then. It is a matter of self-respect. That’s what Swamiji used to talk. When a certain disciple of His who was doing Tapas wanted to discontinue and go away, Swamiji tried to advise him, “It’s a matter of self-respect, you must not abandon this. This is not good thing”. But still then he couldn’t remain disciplined and that man went away.  I am talking of what Swamiji tried to advise. That was Swamiji’s nature. Hang on to it. Just to tell an example, after He started his Tapas at the age of fourteen,  He was a child, after all. He had not seen the world and did not have any spiritual training. Just a Jangama Sage had appeared from a fruit, and  He asked Him to sit into lotus posture and helped Him to do that one. Just touched in between the eyebrows, asked Him, “Just keep watching here and do not repeat any mantra and do not imagine anything”. That’s it. It was like a command for him. And Swamiji used to say, “I just went on doing it at the fourteen year age. I didn’t know why I was doing, but I went on doing. Probably that was my inborn quality, to hang on to it, to do it means do it. Otherwise I wouldn’t have done it at all. First I didn’t want to sit down, but I sat down. Once I sat, I went on doing. I wouldn’t discontinue. So that gave me Samadhi”, Swamiji used to say.  To such a Great Soul, after two or three months He was sitting still on the ground of the graveyard. It was still the rainy season, August and September were all heavy rains in that area. So it was very muddy. His skin had become decayed and scorpions were biting Him. Once a snake also bit Him. So one day He came out of Tapas, He came out of the Samadhi. It was very painful, His legs – imagine how He was sitting there, and He started crying, such a Great Soul. That means we have to imagine what a pain that He must have been undergoing and that mind also bewildered for a while. “Like a dead man why should I be sitting in this graveyard. All dead people are here, why should I be here? I should be doing business, help my mother. I should look after my siblings. This is ridiculous that I have to be doing like this. I will discontinue, I’m not going to do it. Now I will go”. He got up, started walking.  When He came to the gates of the graveyard the same Jangama Sage was standing there. He said, “Come on, you have to sit for twelve years like this. Only then I will allow you to go anywhere you want, until then I will be guarding you. Don’t think that you can run away. It is in your prarabdha, that’s why I have been manifested” – that’s all he said. He didn’t tell who he was. When Swamiji heard this, “Okay if that is the case then I will sit. For twelve years I will be sitting. If death happens to the physical body then I’m not responsible. Don’t tell me that I did not complete the Tapas. Till then I will be continuing. I will not get up. Any power of this world might come to try and disturb me, cut me into pieces, I will not go away back home. I will sit. I will do or die”.

With that attitude Swamiji came and sat. Then mentally the Tapas became very smooth once He became determined. That was His inborn quality. However, others also can cultivate, can practice, can adopt. Once you set a target, that should be of self-respect and that should be of “We will do it or die! How come we will discontinue? No!” Once we accept this person as a Guru – before accepting thoroughly you check, you verify, you try to know what the teachings are, what the path is, and what you want. If you are sincere you will not compromise on teaching. So once you are perfectly okay with it, then you adopt. Once you adopt, it’s your self-respect. If you give away, give up and go away it is your self-respect that is in danger, not of the Master’s. Master has achieved it. So like Swamiji when He made me to sit for Tapas, He told me, “Either you come out as a yogi or your dead body must come out”. That was the sentence He told me. Means like that if you set a goal and then you remain determined, “I must be disciplined. I will do it or I will die”. Then you can cultivate the discipline, and once you cultivate the discipline, endurance automatically comes. They both go parallelly. If you are disciplined, you will have endurance also. For one hour I have to sit means I have to sit for one hour. Swamiji used to tell, “Every day, whenever I initiate people into meditation I give a command. I say “Close the eyes, concentrate your mind and sight in between eyebrows. Just keep watching there. Don’t repeat anything, don’t imagine anything, don’t open your eyes”. All these four five sentences must be considered as a command. We must do it. A commander has commanded us, just to do it that’s all. Just watch. Just now don’t bother why you have to watch. You will know it in due course of time. Why you have to watch, what wonder that happens. The mind that goes introvert to itself. You become aware of yourself. You will gain that Supreme Peace, that enjoyment, that bliss. Everything comes, but just you remain disciplined. Cultivate that one. Don’t give up, make it a self-respect. It is my self-respect. “He is my Guru. I am not going to give up my faith”.

 In my childhood also, at the age of ten or eleven, there was another God person who had declared himself as a God incarnation. Somehow I loved that personality. I had bought a photo and kept it in our altar at my home. So one of our cousins came, “Oh he is a fraud. This person is a fraud.  Police have arrested him. All his hairs, everything is all only fraudulent. This photo needs to be thrown out”. I refused. I told my mother also. “Keep this photo. This photo is my faith. No power on this earth should be able to disturb that one. I don’t bother what happened to that personality, whoever that it is. But in this photo, whoever he is, is my faith. It is my self-respect”. Probably I also had that quality within me. I stubbornly told, I became determined, “We will not throw this photo away. This is my faith. Why should I throw away?” So like that one can cultivate discipline and endurance automatically will follow.

Same questioner: Thank you Babaji.

So Babaji does it mean that having a strong goal or purpose, is important to help us remain disciplined?

Babaji: Definitely. Because when you have an anchor, goals you have set, you know what to do. If you don’t have a goal at all, you don’t know what to do. Like once I went to Swamiji, I had set a goal. I will be with Swamiji. I will be serving him till the last breath of my life. So that goal I had set. So then once I had set the goal, I knew what to do. Simply I had to be with Swamiji, that’s all. Many people tried to disturb my mind. Many people tempted, many things happened in those twenty years also. But I remained determined. I had set a goal. I will be with Swamiji. Swamiji is my Guru. That’s it. So like that it is very, very important to set a goal and target. Then you know what to do. Otherwise you can become confused. You don’t know what to do. You had not set. Just like that you came for any other purpose. Then you will get disturbed. You will get deviated. So your attention might go somewhere else. Suddenly you might like to give up your services to the Master. So this is what happens. So setting a goal is very important. Two things. Once you accept a Master, that is for life. Once you want to serve the Master, that is for life. And for what purpose you adopted that person as a Guru, you want to have Self-Realization – that is another goal. Or even if your goal is just to love the Master and be with the Master, serve him. That is the goal. At least you have set some goal to remain determined. Then never look back. No power on this earth, not even the Master, if the Master wants to kick you out,  you must come back. That’s what Swamiji said, “If I cut him into pieces, this boy Seenu, and throw him into river, he will join and come back to me”. That determination must be there. I was overwhelmed that day. “How great. Really, we need to be determined”. So I became more determined; that was such motivational sentence. Swamiji said after the Master cutting you into pieces and throwing, imagine, you get joined and come back.

So that goal is important. You have to set that one. “This is my Master. This is my beloved Master”. Means, that’s it. You don’t have to ask somebody, “Is it alright if I adopt him as a Master?” You don’t ask the Master, “Is it okay if I adopt you as a Master?” You don’t have to ask the Master also. When I adopted Swamiji as my Master, I didn’t seek Swamiji’s permission. I adopted Him as my Master. He is my Master, that’s it. For that you don’t need Master’s permission. Master’s permission is needed when you need to do something else other than that. To love the Master you don’t need Master’s permission. You just love. You just become His disciple. If you want to become a disciple you don’t need his permission.

 Same questioner: Thank you, Babaji.

 The next question: Often we are motivated in the beginning, but then the motivation fades off and so the discipline to do the sadhana also weakens. How do we change or stop this pattern, Babaji?

Babaji: Some people talk of passion, motivation. If it cannot sustain you and if it cannot take you through to the end, that means you are really never motivated and you really never had any passion. Temporarily you had adopted expecting something else, for a glamorous life or for any other things, that type of thing. Or when you wanted to meditate, perhaps you would have imagined siddhis and flying in the air and all sorts of nonsense other than Self-Realization or peace. That is when you are likely to lose motivation after some time if it doesn’t happen, if those glamorous things don’t come to you – then you lose. So if you come with a personal agenda, finally that is the thing, then you are likely to lose that motivation. If your personal agenda doesn’t get fulfilled, then you will leave it in the middle. You cannot sustain yourself. You will get attracted to others, others’ comments or other powers, other happenings, so many other things and your target, your attention on the Master gets disturbed. Once this is disturbed, you will fall away, you will fall away. So that’s what happens. So you have to be very careful, in the beginning itself. It must be real, you must feel motivated. See, motivation must happen for any spiritual need, for a Self-Realization or to know the secret of birth and death. Who dies? What happens after death? If we are that soul, why is that I am not aware that I am Aatman? Any such highest goal you must set. Then you feel motivated, then you will not give up.

If your goal was not of a highest order, it was neither Self-Realization nor knowing the secret of death nor achieving Supreme Peace, then if it was other things, then you are likely to get disturbed in the middle. You will not, that motivation, discipline, everything gets disturbed, because you are never actually motivated for a genuine reason. That genuine reason is important. Many people we have seen, they come. One day they hear some dialogue. Suddenly they decide, “Oh, this Master is not Self-Realized” and they will take away and run away. Just for no reason. They try to judge the Master. How can we judge? We get to see many people just come and after some time they fall out. So that depends on their motivation for what purpose they come. During Swamiji’s time we saw some people came. They had different motivations. So they couldn’t sustain and they fell out. They didn’t stay with Swamiji at all. So this is what happened, we saw. Even some tapasvin lady I told, she went with a motivation to get married to Swamiji instead of achieving Self-Realization or just watching in between eyebrows and getting the mind clear. Because you see, Swamiji did not have any desire. He was just initiated into tapas by the Divine. When He was initiated… and he had the in-born quality of discipline and endurance. These things were of self-respect value for Him. So He would not give up, do or die. So then He simply went on doing that and His mind became totally cleared. He lost any desires at all, no desires were there, no wishes were there when He completed tapas. So He asked, “God, if You have any work for me in this world I can do it for You but I myself do not have any wishes. I don’t have anything to achieve now”. That was the beautiful Tapas He did and that was because of his inborn quality of determination, self-respect and finishing it. Without finishing it, He wouldn’t get up. After finishing, let us see what we have to do. We don’t have to bother just now. So that’s what He used to be. Many times, another disciple, He used to go and scold him. “Why are you getting deviated? Let the manager do anything. You just concentrate on your Tapas. Let the manager do his managing job. You don’t have to go into a conflict with him. You have to meditate and you meditate, that’s all. When you meditate, you meditate. When you want to talk, you talk. When you want to sleep, you sleep. When you want to eat, you eat”. Like that Swamiji used to tell. That is the discipline. At that time, just do that job. You are eating. Suddenly, you don’t have to start fighting with somebody and shouting. You will lose the essential food eating that is required to sustain your physical body. Like that Swamiji used to explain.

Like that when you are meditating, you need to cleanse your mind. The mind’s corrupted things must go away. That is not the time that you will remember about your enemies or friends or relations or any such thing. Just meditate. Let them be in their homes. You just meditate. So that was the thing Swamiji taught us. Discipline, remain disciplined. “Go, sit down on the table”, He said. “Until I don’t come, you must be sitting on the table.” Remember? In 1978 when I was in Bangalore,  one day, a table had been purchased from the prisoners whose labor efforts were that. That was bought in an auction, and Swamiji asked me, “Hey Seenu, would you like to sit on the table? Where will you sit?” I said… some beautiful sweets had come… “Swamiji, if you give me that sweet, then I will go and sit.” Swamiji felt irritated because I wanted to work out a deal and put a condition to Swamiji to sit on the table. Then He also in return put me another condition. “You want this sweet and only then you sit there, idiot? Now you take this sweet, you eat, then go and sit, then you must not get up until I don’t come there”. He put another condition. Then I had no answer. I had to go, I sat there. Quietly I sat there, then Swamiji didn’t come there. He went inside. Usually after eating dinner, strolling around in that Hall He used to come. But He didn’t come that day. He sent word, “Tell Seenu, Swamiji is very annoyed with him. Swamiji is going to break his head now. He’s not going to talk to him at all, ever if he doesn’t get up, come and have food. Nobody will wait for him. Don’t keep food also”, He said, that boy told me – Swamiji wanted to threaten me. “No food will be given to you for another three days.” I sat determinedly. “Swamiji has taught me determination”, I understood. “Swamiji is testing. If Swamiji can remain determined, why not I too remain determined?  I also will remain determined. If I have to die, let me die, no problem”. I sat the whole night. Finally, at 3.30 early morning Swamiji came with a torch light. A lot of mosquitoes were biting me and I was trying to remember Swamiji’s name. So that was it. Then when Swamiji came closer, I felt scared. Now Swamiji might beat me or scold me. Don’t know what He will do. Then I pretended as if I was sleeping like this. Then Swamiji came and hit me on the head, “Hey, come on, get up. You are sleeping? You are sitting? I wanted you to sit down. I didn’t ask you to sleep”. So I told Swamiji, “I was not sleeping. Suddenly I felt scared when you came closer to me. That’s why I pretended to be sleeping”. Then Swamiji asked another boy to bring my food and made me to eat. Then I requested him to sit on the chair, office chair. Then I did Arathi to Swamiji. And then I had my food prasadam. So then Swamiji was happy. He was telling, “Look, that is the determination. That is the endurance you develop. Then only you can meditate. One day you can do Tapas also,” He said. So that is the blessing. So that is why it is important, motivation, passions, need to be genuine. Otherwise the passions quickly die down. If it dies down, it was not a passion at all, it was for some other reason. Like for example, we were taught, you go in quest of knowledge for sake of knowledge. You love the Master for sake of love. That must not be a deal working out. “We love the Master if the Master is going to keep me close. We love the Master if Master is going to give me a lottery ticket”. Like that, conditional then it is not the love. It is not the quest for knowledge. You want to acquire knowledge so that you can earn a good salary. Then that is not the quest for knowledge. It has to be genuine. Then you will always be motivated to be with the Master and serve Him, and die or live, whatever He wants. That’s it, finished. Not giving up. No situation must force you to give up. No circumstances must force you to give up. Nothing else is there. So that is the real passion or motivation. Otherwise it was not genuine, that is what it is.

 Same questioner: Thank you Babaji.

 The last question Babaji. Having endurance is very difficult, especially when things are not going our way and we feel alone or lost. How do we come out of this state of negativity Babaji?

Babaji: You see, the answer is in the question itself. “If the things are not going in our way” – that is when you need endurance. That means you had expected something else other than the Master, other than the spiritual truth. That’s what it is. Then “Oh, somebody is scolding me, somebody is ill-treating me, somebody is belittling me. That means things are not going our way. I expected love from the Master. The Master is ignoring me. I expected him to pay attention, praise me, keep me with him all the time. The thing is not going my way. What is the use of this life?” Then you lose that passion for endurance and discipline. That must not be. That is why love for sake of love. Quest of knowledge for sake of knowledge. You need Master for sake of Master. You need Master, that’s all. I didn’t know why I wanted Swamiji. My mother asked, “What do you mean you say I want Swamiji, I want to go to Swamiji, I want to go to Swamiji?”. I didn’t know anything else, I didn’t know why I was coming. I am going only for Swamiji.  Swamiji is what I needed at that time. When my mother asked, “How do you know whether he is a genuine yogi or not? You go and if he turns out to be something else? You go and then Ashram atmosphere turns out to be something else?” I said, “That’s no problem for me. I’m not worried about such things. I don’t know whether Swamiji is a real yogi or a chandal”. This is the word I used that day, I remember. “I don’t know whether he is a yogi or a chandal. What I know is I have fallen in love with him. I will never look back, I will not regret anything that happens. If because of my love to Swamiji, if I cannot get Self-Realization in this life, no problem, some other life we can see. But my love to Swamiji is my determination. That’s mine, my self-respect, that will always be there”. If God says, “If you love your Master, you cannot get Self-Realization”, no problem, I don’t want Self-Realization, I will love my Master. That type of determination, that type of endurance and discipline must be there for anyone, even if God challenges you. Nobody should be able to challenge you. Only such a person can achieve both Self-Realization and the Karma Yoga by serving the Master, and Dhyana Yoga will also come by the grace of the Master.

 If your aim, if your aim is genuine, if you have set a target in the right sense, then you go to the Master with passion and that passion, no power, no God should be able to disturb, nothing else. We come for sake of Babaji, we will be there, that’s it. That’s what everybody has to think. Some centers are there, differences happen amongst people, and then they tell, “I am not going to come to this center anymore. I won’t come.” That is not the proper thing. You come to the center, you want to meditate, you can achieve Self-Realization. You come and you meditate, no power should be able to disturb, no one in charge, no manager, no Guru, no God should be able to disturb you. You must become more determined. “Now I will definitely come and meditate here, come what may. You cut my head into pieces”. That should be that determination you must cultivate. Then only you can meditate, you are fit to meditate, you are fit for Self-Realization, you are fit to serve the Master. To serve the Master also there needs to be a fitness. Every moment that fitness certificate you need to be having from yourself, you are the one who will give that fitness certificate, nobody else will give you. Without that fitness certificate you will fail. So that’s what has to be, that is important. Remain determined. Baba as a bodily figure may not be important, but your faith, your devotion in your heart is important which will sustain you, discipline with all the endurance. You meditate, then you will have it. Your Supreme Peace, your Self-Realization and you will become eternal, you will become one with your Eternal Real Self. This body what is called Baba will also go away from this world. That is not important. But do not discard the faith that is within you, the determination, the endurance that can sustain. Do not leave, give up this path of meditation, Self-Realization, Supreme Peace.

 My love and blessings are always with you all. I deeply appreciate all of your participation. Some wonderful questions were asked – this was such a beautiful topic which is very, very necessary anywhere, whether in the world, on the spiritual path, in meditation, anything. Nobody should be able to disturb you. Once you take up, keep going, keep doing. You don’t do it to praise or to please somebody. It is for yourself that you are going, you are doing meditation – never give up that thing. Don’t try to please somebody and give it up, no need. You will lose it, you don’t have to please anybody. You meditate, it is yours! Our blessings are yours! May you all be blessed!

End of Session