A series of Q&As filmed at the Shivabalayogi Devarayasamudram Ashram in South India during a meditation retreat with Shri Babaji over the course of 10 days. Recorded in February 2025.

0:00 Intro
0:11 Why does watching in meditation dissolve thoughts and burn acquired habits so successfully?
5:00 Who is doing the watching in mediation?
5:44 Jangama Dhyana means meditation on the eternal existence. Can Babaji explain what this means?
6:34 What was Babaji’s mindset and emotional state after your Guru, Swamiji dropped the body?
14:37 Did you ever worry whether people would believe that Swamiji came out of the picture to take you into Tapas?
18:51 What is the technology of manifestation?
25:35 At the start of Tapas was Babaji able to reach the thoughtlessness state or did that come later?
31:26 Was there a time when Babaji felt grief and a little lost after Swamiji dropped the body?
32:07 Is there a way to practice Bhakti Yoga along with meditation?
34:11 In meditation are we silencing the thoughts or avoiding the thoughts?
35:16 Have I come here through my own choice or is the universe guiding me?
37:21 What makes a person to go into Tapas?
41:11 Do rituals like Maha Kumbh Mela or Shivaratri have any significance?
47:16 When not meditating, is there a way to still continue sadhana?
48:40 How does suffering connect the mind to Divinity?
53:21 What is Divine Grace? Is there any connection with karma?
54:18 Does that Grace help you to overcome karma?
55:33 If suffering causes one to go to the Divine, how come Babaji, who had a beautiful home, caring family, withdrew towards the Divine?

Meditation, Karma, Divine Grace & the Peace Within | India Retreat Q&A, Feb 2025 – Day 1 Morning

Question:  Why does watching in meditation dissolve thoughts and burn acquired habits so successfully?

Shri Babaji:  Mind, your own mind has two powerful aspects. One is it can think, means be creative, imagine. Another is it can observe, watch. That is what is watching. If either of the two is achieved thoroughly, hundred percent, the other thing stops. You all know if you come across a beautiful scenery and you become dumb-found, speechless, inexplicable. Using the same technique – otherwise, here the mind always gets involved with the thoughts, becomes a chatterbox. Its imagination just now has gone out of control more, more, more, more than is necessary, making you to forget your Real Self, to that extent that it has engulfed.

So, your mind has become obsessed with its own imaginations. We need to bring it down to a silent level so that its attention can go to itself. That’s when you will realize who you are, how you exist as the Infinite. For that purpose, this watching is told. Repeatedly we talk, “Just watch in between eyebrows. Do not repeat any mantra, name, and do not imagine” – very important this is. When a thought appears, mind has that tendency to immediately imagine, means recognize that thoughts existence, and then further analyses, “This is a good thought. This is bad.” It even forgets this is a thought. “This is good. This is bad. Why not this happening? Another this happening, somewhere else something happening.” And then it gets carried away. It runs. It imagines, imagines. That needs to be stopped. At that time, you exercise the willpower. And without bothering what it is, just watch!

See, if I tell “Watch!” [Babaji holds up his hand], your mind has a tendency, “Oh, that’s Babaji’s right hand. He has five fingers. He has raised as a blessing.” Nothing. Just watch and don’t think anything, “Whose hand is this?” is not necessary, “How many fingers it has?” not necessary, “Whether He is blessing or not blessing,” not necessary. Like that, in meditation also, all visions, all thoughts are simply imagined myths which will not take us to the Ultimate Truth. It can keep you holding. Even if it is God, we were taught, finally… Like in a country like India, in Hinduism, Sanatana Dharma, having been born, it was natural for us that we were brought up through Bhakti Marga. We learned the chants and other things sitting next to our mothers on her laps. So that’s very much with our life. But through that, through Adi Shankara’s teachings, Ramana Maharishi, and through Upanishads, we learned about the Ultimate Truth. Is infinite and silence. So that is how it goes. So that is the important thing that we all learned for this purpose.

Any thought comes, what I am trying to tell; during meditation, even if God stands, Swamiji first pointed out, “When God comes, even if He can give you the entire universe, refuse. Tell, You want only God’. Then He will disappear. Because He knows that form also is limited. When He disappears, what remains as all-pervaded is the actual Divinity,” Swamiji used to tell. So, you have to rise to that level. That is the idea of telling you, “Watch.”

Question:  Who is doing the watching in meditation?

Shri Babaji:  Again I will tell you, this is a matter which you must not bother about. Because you will get involved into analyzing, you will try to use your own intelligence. Whoever is the hell watching or thinking, just watch. That is important. When you become quiet, that aspect would have gone. Simply you will realize your attention will go to the awareness of your existence. That is what is needed. It is not needed who is watching.

Question:  Jangama Dhyana means meditation on the eternal existence. Can Babaji explain what this means?

Shri Babaji:  The words that has been used, Swamiji once jokingly told, “Shall we call our meditation as a Jangama Dhyana.” He said, “’Jangama’ means ‘Eternal Existence’.” ‘Sthāvara’ is the opposite word, which is ‘impermanent’; this universe, this world, it will go away. It will disappear. But the ‘Jangama’ has neither appeared nor is going to disappear. So, Jangama Dhyana means, when you are actually meditating, you’re trying to meditate on the Eternal Existence, the Ultimate Truth. That’s what is Jangama Dhyana.

Question:  What was Babaji’s mindset and emotional state after your Guru, Swamiji, dropped the body?

Shri Babaji:  For a while we did miss Him, physically. A short while ago as I told, it was like a small baby and its mother’s relationship. Suddenly that baby loses mother, it is bewildered in this world. This world is like aimlessly moving in the forest. Don’t know where to go, what the path is, type. And that was the relationship that was built up. He loved like a mother, He taught like a father, a Guru. Always looked after that we don’t deviate from the right path. He took care that we don’t get attracted to the world also, to the extent… Means, He was protective so much that several times He used to test whether I want to get married like anybody else and go to the world also. Like, for example – I am just trying to give a brief what the relationship was, how much care He took – one of my college professors was also a devotee of Swamiji. He was visiting Swamiji in Bangalore. So, He asked that professor, “Hey, what shall we do with this boy? Should I get him married, what?” “Yes, Swamiji, it will be nice. Then both husband and wife can serve you.” He pulled him up, the professor, “If you had met me at this young age, what would you have done?” ”Ah, Swamiji, no marriage, my God!” “Then why do you want him to get married and get involved? You want to trap him into the samsara?” He pulled him up. Like that, He was very protective always and use to tell. Then He would look at me. “Why do we need any marriage? Neither me nor you are born for this world, or the marriage. Our job is different.” Like that He used to tell.

So that was the beautiful relationship that was built up. We gave him food. We used to bring Him food.He used to be talking, I used to be asking sometimes alone, sitting, feeding Him. He used to eat food. And take Him milk early morning. And we used to give Him oil massage and give Him a bath regularly. He couldn’t have His own bathing. And so, we used to give Him bathing, put on Him cloth, everything. So, we attended to Him. So that, we missed. When I saw the body, there was no prana. Swamiji physically was not there to address to us, or talk to us. He had dropped the body. Means, He had become quiet. Scientifically, spiritually, technically, for us today that we know, He had not gone anywhere. Simply, the soul becomes withdrawn when the brain dies, and it is not in touch with the universe; in the language or in the way the universe recognizes. Like all of you easily recognize if Shiva Rudra Balayogi or Babaji is sitting in this body. And you can ask me a question in English and you can get an answer in English, is possible. But if this is dropped, anything happens to this, the brain stops, then no English would work there. No communication would work.

Like that Swamiji’s body was kept in Adivarapupeta. Ambaji travelled with me in 1994. A couple of years ago before that only, she had come, she had become fond of me, she had adopted me like an elder brother. She bought my ticket from her tuition. She used to get some pocket money. So, to travel from Delhi to Adivarapupeta, she paid for my ticket also. Several others had joined, so she was sitting all the time with me. She used to be like a shadow at that time also, glued to me. Wherever I was; if I was sitting, singing, watching Swamiji. So, that ‘miss’ was there to this body that we gave that.

Others were behaving in their own way, whatever knowledge they had, “Swamiji will come back. They have to keep the body.” Some people going into trances, “I am Shivabalayogi. I have come back. I am going to come back to this body.” All those things never appealed to me. I never thought [that]. “This is not spirituality. This is not the truth. Swamiji is everywhere. But we are missing Him, soon it should be alright.” And after the final rites were performed, the body was placed in samadhi. From there, I went to Mysore. We went on the Chamundi Hills, where Swamiji used to take us to a place called Markandeya Cave. So, I sat there probably about two and a half, three days, in meditation I was there. I was so much withdrawn and nothing interested. I told Rekha, “You all go to Delhi. I will come and join later. I am going to there.” So, I went there. Probably on third day – that’s what Swamiji told when He appeared. He appeared there and told that, “You have done twenty years of service selflessly, without allowing any thought to come,” means, “Why I have to do this, or like this?” No resistance, no question. Once He told, He used to tell, “Do it like that”. “So, that has given a fruit of seven years Tapas. If you sit for five years, the mind will go into Nirvikalpa, that should be enough, good.” I was not inclined at that time. “I want to do bhajans and do service to the mission. What will I do by doing Tapas without you?” “No, when the time is ripe, when it comes, I will create circumstances in such a way that you will be made to sit for Tapas.”

So, then from there, I came to the Dehradun. And on November 10th, was the Karthik Purnima day. I did some homa also to honour the Maharani Kailash Kumari who had donated the Dehradun ashram property to Swamiji. Evening, we sat and we did aarati. After the aarati, I saw Swamiji coming out of His big photo, and He took my hand and dragged me to the room behind that. So, there was only one cot there, nothing else was there. There He made me to sit for Tapas and touching in between eyebrows, “Just keep watching here and don’t get up and don’t open… For 5 years, you have to sit.” So, one important sentence, I always remember there, “Either you come out as a Yogi or your dead body must come out. Must not abandon.” That’s what Swamiji always taught, “Do or die.” When you are ready to take up that, then the Divine is there for you always. With that, determination must come. So, that was how I went to Tapas. Then Srinivasa became Shiva Rudra Balayogi. Ambaji came and she took the initial photos. She used to have a camera.

Question:  Did you ever worry whether people would believe that Swamiji came out of the picture to take you in Tapas?

Shri Babaji:  Nothing, it didn’t occur at all. I just followed Him, sat, and He blessed, and went to meditation. Such thoughts didn’t occur that I had to make people believe or understand. Because it was for myself, not to impress others. So, that’s why I think that thing did not come at all to the mind. Just went.

Mata Ambaji:  So, I would like to answer that. Baba has told you the story about what happened when Swamiji dropped the body, how the transformation came. See, Baba was not living any ordinary life. He came to Swamiji when He was twenty years old, nineteen plus. From the age of nineteen to age of twenty, He was with Swamiji. So, He was [doing] another kind of a sadhana only. So, ashram life is a full-time sadhana. Either you meditate or you serve. It’s not a personal life.

The second thing is that when you have adopted a monkhood, first thing you drop what the world is going to think about you. You don’t need. When you become a monk, you don’t need anybody’s certificate to certify you what you are, what you are going to achieve. So, Baba had crossed that barrier already. Second thing is His emotional level. Emotionally His emotions were one and single pointedly on His Guru. Of course, Guru, someone who has done twenty years, staying with the Guru, serving Him, it’s not only that a Guru is left in a physical body. Guru is everywhere, all-pervading. And the purpose of His living became that He is living for His Guru, for Guru’s service. So, His emotional level also was very, very strong. Those strong emotions pushed Him towards to go into that full isolation and take up the same path which His Guru showed Him those twenty years. That this is the Ultimate, the body has to perish one day. His Guru’s body dropped, body has gone. This body will also go one day and before that, “what is the purpose?”

So, He achieved that purpose before. So, I myself say, what a great transformation. To Shivabalayogi Maharaj, to our Guru Swamiji, Jangama Deva, Shankara, means Lord Shiva, came as a Guru. To Babaji, His Guru came out of the picture and made Him sit. And that’s like a culmination of all the emotions, I’ll say. It’s like all your emotions come to an end. The one emotion left which is you have to achieve the ultimate of the human birth. Like Baba always says, that achieving the Nirvikalpa samadhi or attaining the Tattva – Tattva means ‘That’ – is the ultimate of the human birth. Otherwise, one after another, one after another, it goes on, it never stops.

So, I say, that was the height of the emotions. And physically, of course, it was a long five year period, which is sitting for eighteen to twenty hours going through that endurance. And just before that, He was in service. In service of His Guru. But those five years, I say, when He was doing the Tapas, He was following the command of His Guru. That was also one of the service, that ultimately you have to achieve for yourself. And I say, that should be the kind of a surrender towards your Master. That’s remarkable.

Question:  What is the technology of manifestation?

Shri Babaji:  One important thing, Ultimate Truth, Divinity is infinite. Means, just like space, it’s simply all-pervaded. But how do we get to see the Divine in a form through Bhakti Marga? Technologically, if we speak from the viewpoint of a scientist, technical; mind has the ability to be creative, imagine. And this imagination, creativity, is not an ordinary quality. That’s the amazing power. You all know, in this world, humanity has achieved so many discoveries, inventions based on the mind’s power, its observation power, learning power. Like this, it has tapped the energies in the nature. All these things have been possible. So, such is the power of such. The same thing, if it is turned towards Divinity, like when we sing the Hanuman Chalisa. This, for us, was not an ordinary stone sculpted. It was Lord Hanuman sitting there. So, that is our bhava. Means, that is the genuinely… that is how for us that imagination becomes obsessed with Divinity. Means, obsessed means falling in love. That’s what it is. Then it gets to see. When the mind becomes more and more concentrated, it becomes purified of its all other corruptive thoughts. It becomes more spiritual, one in Divine.

Then the mental projection, second stage, we call it. Means, one would feel as if the Divine coming or sitting, talking, going. Everything, we tend to see Divine. Even if it’s a bird also, to some it might be simply a bird, to some it might be a Divine. It is depending on their mentality, or their spirituality, on their devotional practices they have done. Like that, when you are able to do Tapas, the third final stage is that the same Divine’s manifestation can happen. Manifestation is as physical as this. As you are seeing me in this physical form, the same type of physical form can come stand. So, these are the stages that we talk.

Now, if a person claims, “I had the vision.” Many people might claim, “I also had, Lord Shiva had come in my dream, or in my life, He came, He guided”, many people claim. But if you see in their life, hardly there is any transformation in them. They remain the same, because mentally they were really not connected at all; they were claiming. Like, in front of Swamiji, Jangama came and made him to sit for Tapas. Sometimes the newspaper, video people have asked me the question, “You tell that only Sathyaraju saw the Jangama Sage standing, making him to sit for Tapas. All other eleven, twelve friends, they did not see anything. How are you sure that really there some Jangama sage came?” I say, “I agree. Except for that Sathyaraju boy, nobody else saw. The other friends who were there were simply jumping in the canal bund, enjoying, eating some fruits, that was all. They did not get to see. They suddenly saw after some time that Sathyaraju was sitting in a lotus posture. And a fruit was there. For them, the fruit was still there. But for Sathyaraju, the fruit had taken shape of a Shivalingam. It broke into two pieces. Jangama Sage appeared. He was made to go for Tapas.

Now, the world saw that transformation in a young, black skinned boy who was an ordinary weaver’s boy, had no spiritual background at all. Twelve years, long years sitting like that in a gruelling way of keeping the mind quiet for twenty-two hours. That the world got to see. After He came out of Tapas also, they saw the glow in His body, that energetic power in Him. People went mad. Wherever He used to go, traffic jams used to happen and people used to go into trance and dance like anything. They were following Him – that power was there, that transformation the world got to see. We all saw. I saw Him. My mind hundred percent went and I fell in love. I gave up a beautiful home. Was I mad just to go after a loin cloth man, giving up a beautiful home? Nobody would do that easily, right? Unless we saw something. Something had engulfed me. That transformation had come in me when I saw.

In the same way, years later, when I saw Swamiji coming out of the picture, I sat and I went to Tapas. Then nothing else was interesting for me. Everything was there, a beautiful building ashram, palatial building as an ashram was there for me for my disposal. We could eat anything that we wanted, everything was comfortable. Even if I wanted to sleep until twelve o’clock, nobody would have pulled me up. But twenty years of that training, that transformation came in me also. We forgot everything else. And thus we went into Tapas. So that is how the manifestation, actual – if you claim that “Babaji, I also saw Swamiji”, means a transformation must happen. Otherwise, I will cut your head [Babaji laughing].

Question:  At the start of Tapas was Babaji able to reach the thoughtlessness state or did that come later?

Shri Babaji:  Swamiji used to come to Dehradun once a year usually, stay there for two to three months. That time was very busy, right from three-thirty early morning to twelve, one o’clock. There was hardly any time to sit down and meditate like this. There used to be so much of fatigue in the body, running up and down, working, everything. And He used to be shouting. He was not smiling like me. He was very tough and all the time, peeling off the skin, “Your mother could not give two parathas to you. She has sent me to you unnecessarily. I will kick you up the road”, type. And others would get terrified and run away.

So, in that pressure, tremendous pressure, it was so busy and our mind did not work much. Well, we meditated when He went away, so I used to make some chapatis, morning, after attending to the daily chores, go behind; there were bushes, mango trees, under the tree, I meditated – this happened. And Yoga Vasistha helped. That’s what Swamiji recommended. After the twenty years, when the final Tapas came, means it is just like I was in the primary, high school, and suddenly joined university. So, you all know the examination strength increases. For a nursery boy, a little bit comes, and then the primary school you would have faced. Oxygen, about these things we read in high school also. The strength of the examination was less, but as we came to university, the strength of the examination increases. That is what we were discussing. Imagination, mental projection, and manifestation.

So those tests of my ability to keep quiet mentally tremendously increased. Five years that I had to keep quiet. Not to react was the thing that Swamiji taught. So, it was suddenly a giant leap. It’s totally different; sitting for a continuous Tapas is totally different, and six to seven hours sitting initially for meditation and then you come out again, you keep working, is totally different altogether. Means, you become a resident of the ashram, or you just come once a week, sit for one hour of meditation and then go away is totally different. That’s what Ambaji was trying to tell; ashram life is a very tough life.

Mata Ambaji: It is a very genuine question I will say. You asked if Baba’s mind was already silent, or was it during the five years of Tapas? Baba has given the answer that, for anything, you have to step onto the first ladder, then you get onto the roof, when you reach onto the last step, you get onto the [roof]. So, it was the process. When process happened, nobody in the world – if somebody said that “I meditated ten minutes, and then I meditated one hour, and then twenty years,” it’s not possible, it’s a bluff. It’s just a made-up story. When you live that particular life, and dedicate your hours, it’s the same thing. When you first day join the school, you cannot write the thesis and become a PhD. So, to become a PhD, you have to spend twenty years of your life, then you could be able to write, achieve that thesis and become a doctor.

So, same thing; Baba worked twenty years on Himself living in the ashram. Seva and that mindfulness all the time, meditation, and with this pure detachment. I was talking to someone just two days back. You know, Ashram was not with all the facilities. You have to sacrifice all your egos. You have to depend on whatever comes, very little, very, very little. And then with that contentment, happiness, and sacrifice, you meditate. You cannot meditate when you have all the luxuries of the world. You can meditate better when you have nothing. That’s what I feel like, when you have nothing, you can meditate better. When you have everything, your mind goes on to just managing, when you have a lot.

So, He meditated, six, seven hours was a natural thing for Him. Then a time came when He realized that now, His Guru blessed him, the Divine blessed Him, made Him to sit for hours and hours. Anybody believes or not, but I was there from the day one. I was there and I saw that, and I took care. So, I know how intense His meditation was. Can any of us, without doing those twenty years, can it be possible for us to sit without sleeping for five years? Without sleeping, laying on to the floor or on the cot, and just meditate, meditate, meditate. So, it’s not easy. It’s not easy, but it’s not impossible like Baba always say. But you have to make that priority. To achieve anything in the life, you have to put that much of efforts. And then the results will definitely come.

Question:  Was there a time when Babaji felt grief and a little lost after Swamiji dropped the body?

Shri Babaji:  There was change, for a while, but once I sat for Tapas, then that all slowly melted. Initially though that gave me some tough times, to stop the mind. But very soon it picked up, by reasoning, “After all the entire universe is impermanent. The body was impermanent, but His teachings are with me. His love, His care is with me. And what He wanted me to happen is with me.” So, like that the change came slowly.

Question:  Is there a way to practice Bhakti Yoga along with meditation?

Shri Babaji:  It’s okay. But one needs to understand, Bhakti Marga also is not an easy thing. Very often in our society, we misunderstand, “If I am on the Bhakti path, that’s very easy. Simply take some camphor, do the aarathi, offering some flowers, “That’s it, my Lord. You give me a certificate, I have done enough for you. Now you fulfil whatever I want.” Slowly we have to rise to the level, whether He gives a kiss on the forehead, whether He slaps, both should be equally acceptable. You know, in life, always things doesn’t happen according to our expectation. Sometimes it could be painful, sometimes it is good, sometimes it is enjoyable in the world. We keep wondering and are bewildered, we are confused, “Why this has happened to me in life.” Almost everybody undergoes these things. So that is when real Bhakti Marga.. Means, ‘Jaahi vidhi raakhe Ram Taahi vidhi rahiye’. They say ‘whatever is Your wishes’. From praying ‘what You want’, you rise to the level, “What You want, let it happen. Let me not want anything at all. If it is that, it has to happen what you wish, so let Your wish only prevail. Let there be no wish of mine.” So, if you can rise to that level. So, you can continue. Means, also, the final point is like, for Mira, Mira never existed in her consciousness, only Shri Krishna. So, if you can rise to that level, then your Bhakti can be very successful, finally.

Question:  In meditation are we silencing the thoughts or avoiding the thoughts?

Shri Babaji:  So, you initially don’t bother where the location of the central point is there, because the eyeballs move parallelly. It doesn’t come into one direction easily. So, we try to teach, closing the eyes, just watch the front portion. Let anything appear, it may be dark, it may be light, thoughts, anything, good or bad, just go on watching, without even bothering where is that location that the Master said, “Watch in between, eyebrows.” Slowly in due course of time, it will start coming. You have to take care. The much that you are able to keep the eyeballs steady, then that can make the mind also stabilize and become standstill. So, that’s how you have to go for practicing. Then the meditation will be smooth and you will get to see good results.

Question:  Have I come here through my own choice or is the universe guiding me?

Shri Babaji:  Yeah, this is how like the Bhagavad Gita tells, “Atma is the atma’s best friend, shat mitra. ‘Atmahee, atmaka shatrur-iva’. So when you take the right path, the opportunity always comes. Every moment it is there. So, you have to make the choice, exercise the choice, what you want. So, for that you have to apply some wisdom, is necessary. If you look back, you would want a happiness and peace in your life. So, when you are looking, try to look for the best product, Permanent Happiness, at all times, the highest Supreme Peace. There must not be any other type of peace other than that. So, like that if you look, that is the first choice you will make. Then slowly opportunities come and you have to make the choice. And also, like some saints have said, “Before leaving its onward journey, the soul’s consciousness would have pressed the button also, how to return.” That is what is known as prarabdha. But, prarabdha doesn’t mean that you don’t put in an effort and simply silently keep sitting, “Whenever it has to happen, let it happen.” Then you wait for another fifty-five thousand life cycles. But here is a prarabdha, that a Master has come into your life. He is talking something. See if that makes any sense for you. Then you have to undertake that sadhana. Utilize this opportunity. Then it can be yours tomorrow. That’s how the prarabdha, choice, and the karma all goes together.

Question:  What makes a person to go into Tapas?

Shri Babaji:  You would have read in several saints’ lives, telling from the mouth, that’s what generally we call it as lip sympathy; “I want God.” So, everybody is there, all there, the Master says, “Who all want God?” “I want God.” So, then the Master takes one and presses him inside the water. He is so miserable for a little bit of oxygen. And then is taken out, “The day that you are really miserable, you want God, you will see God. All the people who have raised their hands, they are not sincere. The moment I take the cane in my hand, they will all run away. They will abuse me. They will scold me. They will tell that Baba is not Self-Realized.” Swamiji used to tell this point. After 15 years, after 30 years staying with me, “Baba, is no more Self-Realized.” They will run away.

So, genuine sincerity is very important, when you want it. Then it will come, definitely. So, that’s what, otherwise the Guru… Swamiji had hundreds and millions of devotees. Genuineness is important. So many came out of curiosity. A person sitting with a loin cloth, that glow was there. But they just came. And afterwards with that, they got carried away, they went away, finished. So, many came for powers, “What He can give?” Often when you go to a saint, people think, “What is it that He can give us?” They don’t think, “What is it that He wants us to give Him?” That’s what Ashtavakra demands from Janaka. “First, come down the throne. Enough of sitting there. And you have killed many people because of your arrogance. The kingdom is mine. The throne is mine. I will command you now.” That’s what the Guru demands. “Pay apt attention. I will give the command, to do that is your job. If you don’t do, it’s your loss.”

Swamiji said, “Every day I make people sit for meditation. I initiate them, ‘Sit any comfortable posture, gently close your eyes, concentrate your mind and sight and just keep watching there. Don’t imagine anything. Don’t repeat anything.’ If only any one person considers that as a command.” The commander says, “Shoot,” he shoots. He won’t ask second time again. “Should I shoot from left side, should I shoot from right side?” “Shoot from there,” means he shoots. That’s what the Guru demands. When this comes, the disciple gets. That’s what broadcast and receiver, both needs to be equally powerful. And very often Gurus have spoken, like Swamiji also, Ramakrishna; the Guru’s vibrations will be flowing in all directions. You have to raise the sail of faith. Faith in the name of Guru or Lord can work wonders. Swamiji said, “You have to raise the dam, the Ganga of the Guru’s grace is flowing. As the moment you build up the faith, you will start seeing wonders happening in your life. Wonders every moment, it happens, it comes.”

Question:  Do rituals like Maha Kumbh Mela or Shivaratri have any significance?

Shri Babaji:  See, generally all these things were framed by sages or elders, forefathers, because, though God is everywhere, it’s very difficult for everybody to visualize the Divinity in everything, as everything. So, that is why pilgrimage centres were recommended. Though God is everywhere. He is in your house also. But until you don’t become matured and ripe to that level that you are able to see the Divinity everywhere, a pilgrimage is always encouraging. It’s very important that will be. Like Ramakrishna said, “Though it is the same water, the water in the kitchen, the water in the toilet is different.” Though it is the same Divine, the Divine in the temple, the Divine in the space, it appears different to you. So, finally, it is your faith, your mind. So, to develop that, if you are interested, you go. It will be beneficial. Simply, if you go without any devotion… it’s like Ramakrishna said “You take out the dirty cloths, go have a beautiful bath in the river Ganga, come back and put on the same dirty cloth.” That is the mind, corrupted mind. You go and you have a dip in the Ganga, think that “My sins have been washed away.” Once you come out, again you hold the same sin. Then it won’t be beneficial or useful. So, laws need to be applied properly. That’s why all the sages and elders have told, “Apply the mind.” That’s important.

Mata Ambaji: Baba, can I say something. About the Maha Kumbh. So, according to, we all know that, you know, this is, especially this Maha Kumbha is happening after one hundred and forty-four years. Because this year, this Lunar calendar, all the planets are coming in one line. They are going to be in one direction, one line which happens once in forty-four years, some one in sixty years. So, this year, our calendar, our astrological calculations according to the Vedic calculations are very accurate. Even, you know, the world has understood today that it’s very, very accurate. Earlier, the Maha Kumbh and the Kumbh was supposed to be the people who were sanyasis and sadhus. They used to go to that pilgrimage and used to perform certain rituals, which was one of the major thing in their life. But today social media has made it so popular. It has become like everybody, like people are going there just for fun. People are masses, in lakhs and lakhs every day. It’s the effect of the social media. It has nothing to do with the devotion, and it has nothing to do with people’s salvation. Like Baba said, God is everywhere. God is in your house also. The salvation comes with the purity of the mind, not by just a dip in the Ganga, you know? I know that they call it Amrit Snan or very special, auspicious. Ganga is in Haridwar also. Ganga is in Calcutta also. That particular moment could be auspicious. But just having a dip in that auspicious moment cannot give any salvation to anyone. I don’t think so. The salvation comes by the total purity of the mind, when the mind becomes one with the Supreme Self. Then only that salvation comes.

So, those nagas and those sadhus used to practice. Practice, practice, practice that meditation. And then taking a dip, coming out of their wilderness or their isolation and coming on a particular Brahmamuhurtham and taking a dip, that used to be the part of their rituals. But today, the social media, television, and through different platforms, it has become like a picnic for masses, believing that they are going to attain salvation. Again, the Maha Shivaratri, we don’t celebrate Maha Shivaratri on one particular date. Like, not like 25 December. It’s not every year 25 December to us; February or January dates changes. And that changes according to auspicious Muhurtham, where we consider, as a Sanatani, we consider that it is the auspicious time, when that particular night, the both, the Shakti and the Shiva are aligning, are coming together. And that is why we perform certain rituals at particular night. And devote the entire night, singing the praise of Shiva or Shakti. And that’s a beautiful reminder. That ultimately, this universe, and including your physical body, has to become one with the universe, one with this Divinity. And that is such a beautiful tradition. Shivaratri is a very beautiful auspicious time for mind and body to become one with the soul.

Question:  When not meditating, is there a way to still continue sadhana?

Shri Babaji:  First, technologically, whenever your mind is quiet, even for a moment, it connects to Divinity. Because mind has no third way. Either it is into imaginations and extroverted, or when it becomes quiet, it goes to its origin, tries to go. That is the basic idea of spiritual exercises taught. Either you make the mind single-pointed through Bhakti Marga and so on, Karma Marga, Jnana Marga. Or when you can achieve total silence, it goes. So, like that, when you are active in this world, also, whenever you think that you are happy, you enjoy that serenity or happiness, that mind is quiet, and it is trying to connect to Divinity. Even for any reason of this world also, that can be. But unfortunately, the things of the world are not permanent, very quickly we lose. And thus, the mind also loses its path, goes back. So, thus, if the mind is quiet, that gets connected, unknown to you also, it gets connected.

Question:  How does suffering connect the mind to Divinity?

Shri Babaji:  When suffering happens, one would like to overcome the suffering. So, we want some anchor, then we try to pray to the Divine to help us to overcome such a suffering. So, it prays, it tries to remember the Divine. On the other hand, imagine, if everything happened to a human being according to his mental wishes in this world, you would never have bothered about Divinity. If everything happens of what you want, if this world is going to give you everything, why would you need God? So, you need God because there is something that you are missing, you are losing. That I tell in another way also, your mind doesn’t stop anywhere except Divinity because it is looking for the same peace that it had enjoyed by remaining in the Self. So, that’s how it suffers, that suffering connects it to Divinity. If it is away from the Divine, it suffers again, then it gets connected to Divinity.

So, we must consider a suffering in this world as a boon, as a blessings, as a grace. Divine gives us an opportunity to know our Real Self, to get connected to our source. So, though it is unfortunate, nobody would like to suffer, but without suffering, I feel that I would never have known anything about the Divinity. Even for no reason also we suffered because we wanted that truth, but only the suffering brought us. What suffering Buddha had to undergo, He was a prince. He was given every comfort. His parents, his father, never wanted Buddha to come out outside the wall and know anything wrong of the world. Yet, when the time was right, the destiny brought him out, but the moment He saw somebody else, with whom he had no connection at all, it was no blood relation, no friend, not known, that person was suffering with old age and some illness.  Buddha became restless. But usually, for us in this world, either my own body suffers, then I suffer, or somebody connected to me very closely, if they suffer, then we suffer. If somebody, innocent person is suffering in the Middle East or anywhere else in the world, we don’t get affected easily so much because we are not connected. Our consciousness is not connected. But, to Buddha, His consciousness got connected to Himself, “Why should we become old? Why should we die? Why should we become ill?” He became restless and He gave up his beautiful kingdom, a beautiful wife, a beautiful child until He could find that Truth. Thus, suffering can help us to get connected to Divine.

Another example is Kunti. Kunti tells Krishna “When we were suffering, when my children didn’t have any kingdom at all, they were being subjected to injustice and cheating, everything, still our minds were very peaceful and happy because every time we used to remember You only. You would come and help us. We prayed always, “Oh Lord, help us, we are into trouble.” But today we have the emperor, empire, my children, my son is the emperor. Everything is there in this palace, but still my mind is not that happy, that the moment that I would remember you and you would come. Please give me suffering, Krishna, so that I can remember you.”

Question:  What is Divine Grace? Is there any connection with karma?

Shri Babaji:  Anything that can make you to turn to Divinity, turn to the Guru for help, to pray for grace or blessings itself is the grace. Without that grace, you won’t even remember the Guru. So, grace has many folds. There is no one particular definition. Everything is grace if you look from that viewpoint. Suffering happens, it’s the grace. You should be grateful that such a thing came because that helped you to remember your Guru or your God, your Divinity. Otherwise, if everything had happened according to my wishes, I wouldn’t have remembered my Divine.

Question:  Does that Grace help you to overcome karma?

Shri Babaji:  Yeah, if you can catch hold and become devoted to that grace, trying to understand. That’s why faith; like my Guru said, “You lose anything is no problem, but do not lose faith. Maintain that faith.” Whatever is happening, even if things are not happening according to your wishes or your likings, or you think that something bad is happening to you, why you are subjected to injustice, why you are subjected to a cheat, anything. But all such times remember, “Maybe the Divine has something good in His store for me. That’s why this is happening. In spite of the fact that I wanted that, ‘This should not be happening. It should be like this. I have prayed, my God, my Guru’, still, if it is not happening, it is His grace, something. He knows what is good for me, whether having an ice cream is good or bad for me, my Mum knows.”

Question:  If suffering causes one to go to the Divine, how come Babaji, who had a beautiful home, caring family, withdrew towards the Divine?

Shri Babaji:  Just for no reason, I was suffering. The very sight of the world used to make me restless. And Bhaja Govindam’s “Sampraapte sannihite kale,” that made me restless. It’s impermanent. The body will die. No matter if you have a beautiful mum and dad, you have a property, you have a castle, you can sit on the bed. You can just go on eating, somebody is making rotis. But that is impermanent. That sat into the mind. So, that was my prarabdha.

End of Session