0:00 Intro
0:11 What is the difference between mission and life?
2:07 What is the significance of walking around the idol in the temple?
5:41 Could Babaji describe the three different stages of manifestation?
12:51 If we do not merge with the supreme consciousness in this life does that mean we will undergo cycles of rebirth until we eventually merge?
14:34 There is no guarantee that the next birth will be a human birth?
15:46 Will tests come to us all as we progress on the spiritual path?
17:40 When you are going through a test and you call upon the Guru for help, does the Guru help as well?
21:32 How can you have faith and devotion if you don’t have a religious background?
23:42 Can meeting a Guru and receiving the teaching of meditation be enough to see you through without sustained contact with the Guru?
27:46 What if we don’t have many questions to give us a reason to contact the Guru?
29:04 Can Bhakti Marga, the devotional path lead to liberation?
30:23 When Babaji fell in love with Swamiji, did all the other deities that Babaji had worshipped become Swamiji?
33:52 Would Babaji advise people to repeat internally the mantra Shivabalayogi gave Him before practising meditation?
34:32 Can one also chant while in activity, outside of the meditation?
35:04 Where and how do we draw the line between the spiritual life and the materialistic world?
36:40 How does a selfless devotion develop?
38:17 Where does the desire for Self Realisation come from and is that connected with grace?

Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A
DSM Meditation Retreat 2024 Day 2 Evening
Recorded: February 2024 at Devarayasamudram Ashram, South India

Start of Questions and Answers
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Question:   What is the difference between Mission and life?

Babaji Maharaj:   Generally, Swamiji used to mention, if you just live for yourself, it’s life.  Everybody lives.  If you can live for others, how much you can live for a larger cause, one person, ten persons, hundred persons like that; that is the Mission.  Otherwise, it’s just life, everybody has to live, they live. So most of their time, energy, everything goes to looking after their own life.  So, if you can live for others – any help, that is. Like you all help for the Mission also.  That means it also comes under having a mission.  When you help me, you do the Mission work, you all assist, so that is Mission. 

It means universally; we don’t simply consider that somebody has to be my blood relation, and then only I will praise them or give them something or think of them, anything.  So, all of you, they need not be my blood relations, but still all of you are mine, as good as my children or something like that.  So that type of universal consideration is the Mission.  Otherwise, usually people will be in their own blood relations.  That’s what we call narrow-minded.  They’re thinking becomes narrow and narrow and narrow, so that’s what happens.  So, when you overcome this, when you practice sadhana spiritually you become more universal. 

Question:   What is the significance of walking around the idol in the temple?

Babaji Maharaj:   That’s known as the pradakshina, considering the idol as the absolute, Divinity.  So, you go around one round or three rounds traditionally to show your highest reverence, that “You are my Divine.”  So, that is the significance going around.  This is a beautiful legendary story also, Shiva Parvati, and their children Ganesha and Swami Karthikeya – Once Narada gets a very rare fruit, mango fruit known as the fruit of knowledge; He brings that to give to Lord Shiva, then Shiva gives it to His consort Parvati.  Parvati thinks that “I must give this to my children.”  But then Narada says, “Only one person can have it as totally the one fruit.  It cannot be cut into two pieces and given.”  So, how to distribute?  There are two children, Karthikeya and Ganesha.  So, then Lord Shiva gives a suggestion, “You put a competition, whoever goes round the world and comes first, round the globe and comes first, he will get this fruit.”

So, immediately Karthikeya sits on his peacock chariot and starts going, flying.  But Ganesha had nothing.  His vahana, chariot was only the rodent.  He knew that with that he couldn’t go around.  He keeps wondering what to do, then He thinks.  He asks Narada, “Because Shiva and Parvati are my parents, they are the lords of the universe.  So, if I go around, will it be considered that I have gone around the universe?  Will I be able to get the fruit?”  Narada says, “Yes, definitely, when you consider your parents as Divine, and that too – your father, Shiva and Parvati, they are divine.”  So, then quickly, Ganesha goes around His parents three times and gets the fruit.  And it goes further, then Karthikeya gets annoyed that “I have been cheated.”  He comes to the Earth; He settles there in the pilgrimage center known as Palani in Tamil Nadu, on the hills. That’s how the story of that temple is; that is, the stala purana, they call it, a history or the legend of the place.  So that’s how Lord Karthikeya is there in Palani.  Palani is the place.  So, finally, the moral is, your mind’s consideration, your faith is what matters.  So, based on that, things will appear to you in the same way. 

Question:   Could Babaji describe the three different stages of manifestion?

Babaji Maharaj:   During narrating my tapas experiences in ‘His Master’s Grace,’ the first book that came out, the questions were asked.  “You might claim that “I saw God.””  That can happen in any of the three stages usually, I have explained.  How does that happen?  Your mind, your consciousness resolution.  The first stage is imagination, bhakti marga, devotional path’s first basic idea is, due to imagination, the mind has gone out of control.  And with imagination only, using the same imagination, you try to make it single pointed, like, “This is God.”  You try to teach the child, showing an idol.  So, then it sits in the mind.  So, then it starts visualizing that as God all the time.  So, anything that you start visualizing more and more repeatedly, repeatedly, that picturizing becomes solid and solid.  The more solid that the picture starts becoming, you get absorbed into that and that starts appearing so real. 

So, as it becomes more concentrated in that visualization, the next stage we can tell as the mental projection, the mind projects; you might feel as if the Divine has come and is sitting with you.  Many sages and saints also have told, people like Surdas and all, like Krishna coming with Him and playing around with Him and then sitting and eating with Him, Lord Krishna.  For Him that bhava… but these are not ordinary things.  So slowly your bhava increases many folds with that devotion, means your mind gathers, and that means meditation is happening unknown to you.  If you are sincerely devoted, sincerely – not simply going to temple just to eat some sweets, that is not the devotion.  So, this devotion is wherever you are, your mind starts remembering the Divinity only.  So, that is manifestation. 

Finally, when you are able to do tapas, when your mind gathers hundred percent, just before the merger, the Divine’s manifestation; manifestation will be as physical as this physical universe, world.  That strength of picture, what you all call it as megapixels nowadays, that type of strength, that is as real as you are seeing me in this physical body; that is the manifestation.  In Sanskrit the word is known as Avir Bhava.  Avi is the spirit form, infinite form. Through the bhava, your own mental resolutions, that comes into existence in that form, divine.  So that is how that you got the darshan of Divine. 

Like Swamiji had the darshan of Jangama Sage.  It was a manifestation that came.  And none of His other friends saw that.  Many times, people ask me the question, “What is the guarantee that only Swamiji saw, why that others did not see?”   It was His own manifestation, He saw, but importance of seeing such a manifestation is a transformation in the person.  The world saw Swamiji going into tapas and transformation that happened, means when you come across a personality like you come to a yogi, the broadcasting is there, their vibrations are flowing.  But if you also have that type of devotion and faith, you develop and cultivate, then you become a strong receiver; broadcasting and the receiver both need to be strong, then the picture appears on the television, right?  So that is how things happen.  So, when you have that devotion and faith, then you get transformed, your life changes, your thinking, your understanding, everything changes, you are not the same person with narrow mindedness, you are not selfish anymore, and you try to see universally, you try to see yourself everywhere.

So, like that it goes on and on, then you are able to see the Divine.  That is the idea of bhakti marga also.  Like you all read that the Divine, God is omnipotent, omnipresent, is everywhere, in everything as everything.  But simply reading won’t be helpful, you have to practice; in your consciousness that must appear.  So, everything when you see, your consciousness criteria must reverberate it as a Divine, then you will feel that Divinity all pervading.  Otherwise, it will be an ordinary microphone or an ordinary chair.  So, you won’t be able to remember that. Just only when in the temple or when you are listening to a talk, for a while your mind remembers “O, God is everywhere.”  But when it practically comes, we forget.  

That is what as we were talking in the morning also about Ramakrishna, while teaching Advaita, He told a story also – the teacher was teaching Advaita that God is everywhere, in everything, as everything.  So, one of the students was sitting on the banks of the river.  An elephant was coming on the way; the elephant rider was also there. He was shouting, “Give away, give way.”  He thought, “If the elephant is God, it should not be harming me.  God is in me also, in the elephant also.”  But that didn’t happen.  The elephant came and it took him away and threw him.  He was bruised, and with fractured limbs and legs he comes to the Guru, telling him, “Master, Master, you said God is everywhere.  But you see, I thought God is in the elephant also, but it threw me and broke my bones.”  Guru said, “Idiot, God is in the elephant rider also.  So, God was warning you to give away, but you tried to see God only in the elephant and forgot there is God in the elephant rider also.”  So, just to tell that just by theory or reading books, you cannot visualize the Advaita, the Divinity that is everywhere.  It has to happen by practice, consistent practice of meditation and practice of experience of nirvikalpa samadhi, then only you can see the Self everywhere. 

Question:   If we do not merge with the Supreme Consciousness in this life does that mean we will undergo cycles of rebirth until we eventually merge?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, whatever effort that you are going to put in this life, in this body, that will continue; as a fixed deposit it will be there. Means your mind picks up through that sadhana; if you are doing sadhana, whatever your mind visualizes or picks up such habits, when death happens, the brain dies, mind gets detached – whatever it is carrying as attitude or the acquired habits of the mind, it spins.  So, intensity of thoughts form, and based on that only next incarnation happens.  So that’s what many times I have explained.  Imagine, like my Guru used to tell, “You can choose a husband or a wife, but by the time you want to choose parents, you are already born.”  For that you should have done some good karmas in previous life, that some pious people, who are spiritual, that you are born to them and you get trained by them, their attitude, you get that inclination also and you will be bringing a basic nature also and you will be blessed with such circumstances, such things, all such things are all there.  Then you also develop further.  So, from childhood, early childhood itself, you develop such an inclination towards spiritual truths.  So that is what.  That will continue.  So, it will never go to waste whatever sadhana you do.  So, like that soon you will be able to do tapas and become Self-realized if you continue in that one. 

Question:   There is no guarantee that the next birth will be a human birth?

Babaji Maharaj:   But one thing, if your mind is becoming more and more non-violent through sadhana, then definitely an elevated birth or a human.  In this creation, human birth is the highest rarest of rare gems, which has a well-developed brain, you are able to discriminate the real, unreal, permanent and impermanent.  So that can be guaranteed.  Non-violent what I mean, six arishidhwargas, extreme greediness, extreme anger, extreme attachment to materialistic world and false pride, jealousy, and extreme stinginess.  These six things, whoever has got these things in their mind, their mind is the first casualty, their mind becomes violent because of these things.  If one has overcome through sadhana, these things, then the mind would have become non-violent.  If it is non-violent, definitely it gets elevated as a better human, in fact. 

Question:   Will tests come to us all as we progress on the spiritual path?

Babaji Maharaj:   To everybody the tests will come.  So that’s when it says whether you are okay or not.  When you try to do a paratha, you will test whether it is cooked inside also properly.  So that’s when you are a perfect cook.  Otherwise, you simply put it like that, and you give it.  So, inside it will not be cooked; it will raw atta only.  So, like that, the Divine always tests for eligibility.  You are ready to go for the Self-realization or liberation.  Simply telling in the mouth is not enough.  Everybody will tell who all want God.  So, “I want God, I want God.”  Then in Jesus’s story also – so many saints’ stories come – he takes that person and puts him inside the water.  So, after a while, he’s taken out tells “How much you are desperate for your breath, the day when you become desperate for God, then you will see God.”  So, that eligibility is always tested for everyone.  It keeps happening, you see.  Your life with me, you see it may be 20 years or 25 years ago that you saw.  So, all the time tests keep coming, tests keep coming.  When tests come, when they are able to pass and they become more devoted, more devoted to the Guru, they stick to the Guru, they are with the Guru.  Otherwise, many people simply fall out and go away.  They come out of curiosity, and they fail in the tests when it comes and they are dismissed from the university.  So, like that tests definitely come, only then your quality is proved. 

Question:   When you are going through a test and you call upon the Guru for help, does the Guru help as well?

Babaji Maharaj:   If you call sincerely.  If you have the cell phone and your sim is international, then you call, then the Guru will pick up.  Otherwise, you are simply keeping one cell phone which doesn’t have a sim, “O Guru, O Guru come”, the ring doesn’t go to Guru’s cell phone.  Here that means your devotion and faith.  So, imagine, Draupadi’s devotion to Krishna was like that.  It made Him manifest as a beautiful clothing for her, but it also took some time for her, the poet explains.  In the poet’s language, it’s so nice to hear also, though could be imagination.  In Dwaraka, Krishna was restless that day.  “Today, Draupadi will be put to test.  She will remember me, and I have to go and protect her.”  But when she was brought to the court by the wicked Dushasana, it didn’t occur to her to remember Krishna first.  She went to Bhishma.  Bhishma failed her – he was a noble person, mahatma, great, saintly person, yet he defined the dharma, his duties to be tied with a particular definition.  “My duty is to the king.  I see my father’s shadow.  So, without his orders, I cannot help you.”  Dronacharya also refuses.  Her husbands refuse, all in the name of dharma.  Means, if we try to understand today, when she was about to be disrobed, before that, her husband Yudhisthara had lost her in the dice game, and the contract was that she will become a slave to the opponent.  At least Yudhisthira could have protested, “She can be your slave, you can make her mop or dust, but who has given you the right to disrobe a woman?  She is a woman first; she is my wife afterwards.  We will protect her”, he should have told, but they kept quiet. 

So, like this, this is another thing, but then until then, every time Sri Krishna was getting up in Dwaraka, but Draupadi would go to somebody else, and He used to sit back.  Rukmani, Satyabama, they were all puzzled, “What’s happening to Lord today, what’s happening?”  “No, no, something is not right.  I am waiting for Draupadi to remember me.”  Then finally, when she realized, “If at all anybody can help, it’s only Krishna, and nobody else.”  When that faith comes, final, “He comes, or He doesn’t come, let it happen.”  So, that’s when the poet says, she left her sari’s pallu, given up, and remembered Krishna.  The moment she remembered with such faith and devotion – that was there in her already.   It just required a spark and manifestation of Divinity happened.  So, that type of faith and devotion needs to be developed in everybody.  That’s what the teachings will always be.  Faith is taught in devotional path.  Our Guru’s taught, “With all the total faith you remember the name of Guru, the Guru will have to bless.  He will have no choice, the Divine.”  Even the demons, when they did tapas, Brahma had to come.  But that’s a different thing, he (demon) didn’t have the wisdom to ask for liberation, instead they asked for siddhis and powers.  So, that’s the illusion.  So, that type of devotion needs to be there.

Question:   How can you have faith and devotion if you don’t have a religious background?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, you are here now.  You have been listening to our answers, talks; listening to that, you have to develop a faith that “What Babaji is talking is the truth.”  You don’t have to have a blind belief, but at least in the beginning you need to have faith.  Just like we tell when you went to nursery or KG school in the childhood, and the teacher said, “This is A, this is B,” you took it in good faith, you never questioned, “Why, I should call this as A.”  That innocence of the mind, that’s how you have to pick up.  And then, when you have that faith, “The Divine is all pervaded and the Divine will protect us, He will be with us”, then you start loving God, you fall in love slowly.

So that love can see you through always, because love should be unconditional.  When you love, even the Divine cannot disturb your faith, that much of love you have to develop.  Like Swamiji used to tell “Even if the Divine wants to cut you into pieces, you should get joined and come back to the Divine”, that type.  So, that is how it slowly comes by listening to the Divine stories.  That’s how we all picked up from childhood.  We got to read stories of how…  Like a book of Bhakta Vijaya is there, lot of devotees’ stories are all there.  How they used to have faith and devotion, when they were put to test they never give up the remembrance of God, and finally how they were protected and helped by God.  These type of stories, in childhood we read.  So, our innocent mind picked it up sincerely, it just took that one.  So, if you read those types of books that should be available.  Nowadays, online if you search, many devotional books will be available.  So, that will help you to cultivate and sustain the devotional faith, path. 

Question:   Can meeting a Guru and receiving the teaching of meditation be enough to see you through without sustained contact with the Guru?

Babaji Maharaj:   Finally, it will depend on the strength of your faith and devotion.  If you have that much training and you have cultivated the devotion, one sight of the Master is enough; you fall in love.  So, that’s what can see you through.  Otherwise, also, even sages like Veda Vyasa tell, “Maintain a middle distance with the Guru.”  If you try to go too close, you are likely to take the Guru lightly.  You will take it casually, just like He is also any other person eating some savories and drinking a cup of tea – that’s all a Guru is.  So, you will not understand what the Guru can be.  If you go too far away, also, you are likely to be neglected, because the Guru will be in His own samadhi.  That’s what happens.  If you maintain the middle distance, somewhere on and off, you try to be in touch. 

See, in today’s world, communication is not a difficult thing.  So much is there – WhatsApp is there, or emails are there.  Somewhere if you try to do that one, that will be helpful for you to cultivate that.  But if you have that faith also, that can give you that connection with the Guru.  Once you develop that, you should have it.  Like for this, when other brothers of the Pandavas, Arjuna complained to Krishna, “Krishna, You are very fond of Arjuna.  All the time You keep talking to him, and you are so affectionate, but you don’t show that affection to us.”  Then Krishna takes Bhima to where Arjuna was sleeping.  So, look at it.  He was sleeping, but in his respiration also, “Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna” was going on.  Krishna says “It is not me who is holding him.  He is holding me.  That’s why I am helpless.  I will have to bless him like that.”  So, that is how you slowly learn and cultivate. 

I fully understand the difference in culture, as he was telling, “We don’t have such a religious background.”  So, fortunately for us, since childhood, we were brought up in such circumstances.  But in spite of that also, it is the samskaaras, vasanas finally which can bring.  Sometimes, you Westerners develop such devotion and attachment to the Guru from thousands of miles distance and come running for that Guru.  And those who are in India, who are neighbors, they don’t develop such attachment because they are attracted to the Western materialistic cultures.  They try to follow the Western things and run towards the West.  They don’t know their own culture, they own devotion.  So, this happens.  Somewhere you see, what has made you all come all the way to this remote village and to spend about ten days with us, sitting, discussing this spirituality, devotional path.  Both go together, meditation, devotion, all these things can be so helpful.

  So, that’s how it can be helpful to you.  You have to sustain, you have to maintain, you have to imagine; your imagination, your creativity in the mind, “It’s my Guru, my thing”.  Even sometimes, like so much we developed like that, remembering Him, the Master, when He used to be scolding – “You are trying to test me.  Now I am going to love You more.  You have no power to disturb my love to You, I will love.”  Like that, it becomes a self-respecting matter with the God also.  Even the God should not be able to disturb your devotion or faith; that should be the thing. 

Question:   What if we don’t have many questions to give us a reason to contact the Guru?

Babaji Maharaj:   No need, just something, “My pranaams to You”, or you keep talking to yourself as if you are talking to me, wherever you are sitting, like we talk to idol.  When I was young in Mysuru when we were in early college days, front of our home was a temple of Hanuman, Karthikeya, Ganesha.  They were my best friends.  I used to go around two hours, three hours; mother used to be waiting, keeping the breakfast, “Where has he gone, idiot?”  She would be anxious and irritated, “Come and why don’t you have breakfast,” but I would be talking to the idols.  They were not simply stone idols for me.  For me it was alive, Divinity was there; so, that is the bhava that you develop into a highest bhava.  So, you talk like that to Babaji within yourself, you will slowly develop such attachment to Babaji, and you will see Babaji within you; you don’t need this physical body actually.  This physical body is not important, what you think about Babaji is more important.  That will see you through, sustain or can give you liberation also; that is your faith. 

Question:   Can bhakti marga, the devotional path lead to liberation?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, bhakti also, you have to rise to that level.  Bhakti means all the time of your attention, remembrance, whatever you are doing; you are baking bread, but your mind is remembering that Divinity, that practice.  So that’s what is meditation.  While trying to meditate also, you are taught by the master.  So, when your mind becomes quiet, that is the real worship of God, because mind has no third way.  Either it is in this universe with its own imaginations preoccupied, or when it becomes quiet, it goes to its source from where it has come, to the ocean; the droplet goes back to the ocean.  As it becomes more and more quiet and quiet, it simply goes back.  Like remembering by a name, you are trying simply trying to make it single pointed.  Even without remembering with the name also, if you become quiet, if you don’t allow your mind to become corrupted, with greed, anger, all these things, then it goes to your Guru only, actually. 

Question:   When Babaji fell in love with Swamiji did all the deities that Babaji worshipped become Swamiji?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, yes.  Like teachings of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Adi Shankara and Ramana combined, it gave this insight; one Divinity, so many names.  So, you can remember in any name.  I said that “I will remember in this name,” and maybe due to previous lives with the resolution, that mantra also came in the dream, Om Shivaya Shivabalayogendraya Parabrahmanaya.  So, in my consciousness when I am pouring water on Shivalinga, on Vishnu, anything, it is Shivabalayogendraya Parabrahmnaya; it’s coming.  So, like that, the oneness that came, the training that we got, the books that we got to read, the devotional stories we heard from our mother, so all these were very helpful.  

That’s why in my talks or answers, sometimes I have told, sixty, sixty-five years ago we were so fortunate to have been born seventy years ago.  When we were kids, we did not get exposed suddenly to the Western world so much, or scientific world we can say.  It was totally devotional world, so mind picked up that thing, such things only and Divine.  Also, scientifically it picked up.  It was not a blind belief because there was no such intention of any materialistic gains that we needed – simply we loved, so that’s what is important.  Like for example, the day I saw my Guru, came back home and spoke to my mother.  I told her, “I have found Him, I need to go, I will go Him.  You have looked after me for sixteen years.  Now that’s enough, it’s time that I go.  You must bless and send me.”  It was about a couple of hours we were conversing, and she was trying to know what I meant, how I have been impressed or what is my idea.  She was asking, “Do you know whether that yogi is a genuine yogi or what it is?”  What I said – naturally it came, “I don’t know whether He is a genuine yogi or a bad guy, but what I know is I have fallen in love with Him.  This is mine, I know that one.  Nobody can disturb this; I will never regret it.  Bless me.”  So, like that, these things were very firm.  It’s a matter of self-respect.  That’s what we learnt from childhood about faith and devotion. So like that it has to develop, then it works slowly, listening to that one.  Reading such books are important, without going into unnecessary siddhis or miracles.  One miracle that can happen is from the Divine, from your faith; your faith can work such wonders.  So that is more important, but that is totally based on your faith and devotion.  You also develop, you have to develop, must not get attracted to the materialistic world, so then it works.  That’s how it happened to me.  I saw Swamiji in every idol, in every form of Divinity.  

Question:   Would Babaji advise people to repeat internally the mantra Shri Shivabalayogi Maharaj gave Him (Om Shivaya Shivabalayogendraya Parabrahmnaya) before practising meditation?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, anybody can chant that one.  That’s universal and open.  All can chant. Traditionally, 108 times you can count and repeat that. When counting, don’t be in a rush to finish 108 times.  Slowly, peacefully, so that your mind sits on that, concentrate, that is important; your mind’s attention is important.  Then meditation will be smooth and very nice, once you achieve that focus; focus is very important.  Anybody can chant that.

Question:   Can one also chant while in activity, outside of meditation?

Babaji Maharaj:   Slowly, you have to be careful that mechanically you are able to attend to the world when you are walking also – should not faint, then gradually inside it starts remembering, but outside you are totally alert to these things.  Like that you have to practice, if a little bit needed.  That will be helpful to bring down the restlessness and make it focused onto the thing.

Question:     Where and how do we draw the line between the spiritual life and the materialistic world?

Babaji Maharaj:   If you can see God in everything, there is no spiritualistic and materialistic.  You try to see God, means slowly acceptance.  You put an effort to achieve anything in life, when it comes, then accept that, don’t go into further greed, “Why this didn’t happen, why I got only one big ashram, why I didn’t get ten ashrams?”  So, give it up, accept and you will see this as surplus.  Always you will see God has given surplus for all of us, more than that we imagine. 

This example I keep telling; fifty years ago, also when I went to ashram, my imagination was a small hut type of place, peaceful serenity, quietness – that we loved always, peace we loved. And some small water flowing like that.  But when my Guru sent, when I saw, that was a big palatial building, “My God.”  So, instead of that, if I had imagined I should get a White House type of presidential palace, so then that building also would have been not sufficient, “O, God has given me only this little palatial building.  He didn’t give me the White House.”  So, that is the mind’s acceptance. If you see a little bit then you will see it is surplus, there is surplus all the time.  That is the practice. 

Question:   How does selfless devotion develop?

Babaji Maharaj:   Many times people have asked this question.  I have told, like in your childhood, you went to school, academically you wanted to get qualified.  If you are educated you could behave as a better person in the world, your wisdom works.  So, when you went to get qualified academically you never considered that as a selfishness, nobody told you “O, you are getting educated only for yourself.”  So, not for yourself.  When you are educated you can educate others also.  So, like when we did meditation, we did tapas, so today I am able to help you all without any confusion.  Hundreds of questions you ask, we will never be confused.  Whatever I know, I will tell.  If I don’t know, I don’t know.  If it is inconclusive, it is inconclusive.  So, like that we are able to help others, so it was not selfishness.  So, when you get educated in the devotional path or meditation path, you will be a better person, a mature human being.  Ten people might come for counseling to you one day, when you are matured like that.  So that is how you have to practice.  First you become perfect and then you can help others.  That is when my Guru used to tell, “Try to become a perfect student first, you can become a guru afterwards.  Don’t be in a rush to become a guru.”  But you have a right to get educated, everybody; it is not to be considered as selfishness.  

Question:   Where does the desire for Self-realization come from and is that connected with grace?

Babaji Maharaj:   There are millions of reasons arising every day. Simply your wisdom has to work.  Because all of you have seen the world for all 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, 60, 70 years – life is never totally happy or peaceful in this world. Not everything that you would have wished you would get it ever.  Mixture – good, bad. You wish, it comes, you wish, it may not come at all.  So, these are all always giving you pain, unhappiness. That unhappiness is the grace.  You see the human history always.  When there was suffering, when there was bondage, when they realized “We are not independent”, they struggled for independence; “We want to have our own rule.”  That was not escapism.  Somebody else coming to rule our country, we don’t consider it as our own rule, we want our own people to rule us.  The reason is, if some other country comes, they will bring their culture, their philosophy and they would try to destroy our culture, our philosophy, our beliefs, and would like to convert us into their cultures.  So, that is why we don’t want that bondage, we want to be independently allowed that we remember with our own culture of devotion.  Like that, when you suffer, you understand, you realize, but these things may take time for humans, not everybody understands.  

So, some people, if you are given one time of meal and then I will keep robbing your million rupees, million dollars, you don’t understand that you are being robbed your million dollars, you are being given only one time food.  You are happy, “O, I don’t have to work for this food.  I am getting my food now.  I can eat and just sleep.”  So, that’s when they continue to be in the bondage.  Then the wisdom application happens, “O no, something is wrong.  I am not allowed to go in first class; they are asking me to come in only third class train only.  Only they are travelling in the first class.”  So, like that when wisdom works, that means that is the grace, the Divine is working out.  The grace is flowing every moment, our wisdom has to work;  “Something is wrong, we are not happy all that time.”  This occurred to me as a young child also – “Something is wrong, all the twelve months, twenty-four hours, it is not there.”  Even though everything is fine, childhood was comfortable, loving, caring, everything was nice yet, we missed something, an unknown fear and an unknown anxiousness, “Why is this happening?”  So, that is how the grace is there.  We have to think, we have to work it out.     

End of Session