Dedicated to the lotus feet of the divine guru Shivabalayogi Maharaj


Consciousness and Energy – online Q&A, No.159

Recorded on 30th December 2023 with worldwide participants

0:00 Introduction from Babaji
0:47 What is consciousness?
1:47 What is energy?
3:39 Is the energy we see in the world the same as what is within consciousness?
5:35 How can there be smaller consciousnesses within one all pervaded consciousness?
12:53 Is this imagination a quality of the energy-consciousness?
27:19 Is the creation or the imagination itself wrong?
33:56 Can scientists find the true nature of consciousness and energy?
41:34 In tapas, are you aware of the physical body?
42:07 Can a thought within consciousness be aware of itself?
45:46 What causes an individual consciousness to be born as a human being with the capability of reaching Self Realisation?
49:21 How the mind experiences happiness once and for all
50:40 Are activities like running or music which quieten the mind be helpful, or are they a distraction?
52:30 Do we have to mentally suffer as we recognise the ego during meditation to bring us back to peace?
55:35 Does the mind die?

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 159
Consciousness and Energy

Recorded: 30 December 2023 with worldwide participants

Start of Session

Babaji Maharaj commences:  

   Okay, so wonderful the Divine is giving us one more opportunity so that we practice to keep quiet mentally.  When mentally you are quiet, that means you are quiet; when you are not mentally quiet, you are not quiet, that’s all the things.  So, just watch in between eyebrows, don’t bother about anything.  Remain relaxed, at ease. 

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Babaji, so the topic this week is consciousness and energy.  Babaji, to start with, what is consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Just for sake of understanding, consciousness means it has given the consciousness of your own existence.  And also, wherever you apply that, you become aware of that object, or that matter, or that scene, anything, that at least it is there.  Like for example, if you apply your consciousness here to me, you will be aware that I am sitting here in this body and I am conveying a message and you will be able to focus on what I am trying to convey.  So, these are some of the basic understandings for consciousness. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji, and what is energy? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Energy is an inseparable entity along with the consciousness; consciousness and energy are inseparable.  Energy is in consciousness, and this energy we can see that everywhere it is working.  Because of the presence of energy in the consciousness, the consciousness is able to be creative.  It spins.  If the energy was not there, it wouldn’t have been able to spin or imagine or be creative.  And probably through science, energy has been recognized, but important point, nobody has seen the energy in naked eyes  what it is.  It is there and it is not there.  Only when it operates or it moves through some objects, some matter, the presence of energy is recognized.  Like a motor engine is moving ahead as the presence of energy is there.  The sun is giving light to the whole world and everywhere.  So, that is the presence of energy.  So, like that almost everywhere we can see the energy in five elements, in our own thinking we are able to think in the mind because of the presence of energy.  So, that is why I have always tried to tell – mind is the combination of consciousness and energy. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  So, this energy that we see in the world, the results of the energy, is that same energy also consciousness?  Is that energy together with consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, it is inseparable and it is together.  But some places, depending on the matter, the consciousness may, what we call, get depicted or becomes recognizable.  Like if a living species we might recognize the consciousness is there.  In humans we are very well aware, the consciousness, we call it as mind.  I am conscious of the world, surroundings and this consciousness, because of this presence of consciousness in us, through the help of the brain we are able to be conscious of this world, surroundings, everything. And animals, any living species; plants, any living species that we consider, all such places definitely consciousness is depicted.  Other places, though consciousness may be there but it is not depicted.  That consciousness may not be aware of any surroundings through that object, through that matter.  For example, a stone, though through the stone the consciousness is there but it will not be aware of its surroundings.  It is simply blissfully unaware.  But the energy is there.  If we throw a stone on somebody, so, that energy is there; that is depicted.  So, some of the understandings like this. 

Question:   So, Babaji this consciousness or this energy consciousness is all pervaded but within that there are individual consciousnesses and those individual consciousnesses are only aware from their point of view.  Can Babaji explain a little bit about how there can be smaller consciousnesses within one all pervaded consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, probably due to ignorance this thing has happened.  Though the one universal consciousness is all pervading, just like one space is there, yet if we keep several objects in which the space would be visible, so if that space starts thinking itself to be an individual, if that imagination comes, that is only because of ignorance.  So, in all the objects it is the same consciousness, same energy, yet it is unable to depict or manifest or any such thing, because through the help of something only it has to be operative in this world.  Energy is operative through five elements and all such things but consciousness operation or manifestation is very limited – like, it is only in the living species, like we as the consciousness are able to be conscious of the world through the help of the brain that we have.  Some of the observations we as a common man, we are common people, not experts, but however, through our observation this is what the understanding that comes to us.  Though the consciousness is everywhere but it is not visible; the manifestation is not there at all places.  The manifestation is experienced only when you merge with that Supreme Consciousness.  

Like just now you are thinking you are an individual consciousness whereas you are a part of that Universal Consciousness, just like a droplet is thinking itself as an individual, but it is part of the ocean; when it gets dropped into the ocean, only the ocean is there.  So, but as long as the droplet is there the droplet starts thinking “Me,” an individual, “I am a droplet, I am this,” or whatever it is, whatever it imagines, either through an ego-based or arrogance-based – that is what is known as the Rajasic, Satvik and TamasicRajasic is whatever it thinks it starts thinking that to be the perfectly right thing.  It does not want to accept any other truth, does not want to gain any other knowledge.  So, as we go on meditating and go introverted deeply and deeply, we realize this, that what hitherto I was thinking about myself was simply an ignorance or we didn’t know that simply an illusion was created.

 And when we become one, at least when we realize the ocean is there, then all our ego would be lost, and once we merge, once the ego is gone, the droplet merges with the ocean like the universal consciousness is there.  Because of the brain or whatever in touch that it comes and it starts thinking that it is an individual; just like the space inside an earthen pitcher, if it comes in contact with any such matter which can give it consciousness of the world, like for example in humans it is brain but in earthen pitcher there is no such thing, yet if there is something, then it starts thinking as an individual itself; that is what I have mentioned as ‘individual imagined self’.  Even we as a human being we see several earthen pitchers are there, but inside that we start thinking for a while, if we forget the oneness and all pervaded-ness, we start thinking as separately, “O, in this earthen pitcher there is a space, in this earthen pitcher there is a space”; like that, differentiating.  So, that’s what it is.

  Like, as our thinking becomes narrow we start thinking “I belong to this body and I am this individual.”  That ego crops up, then for every person, with the name they start identifying themselves, “I am only Shivarudra, I am only Gopal, I am David, I am Zen”, whatever it is, like that. But as it starts realizing “I am not limited to this body, I belong to the state, I belong to the country, I belong to the whole world, and I belong to the space – not just to one galaxy, ‘I’ as the consciousness belong to the entire space”. So then the consciousness also becomes Universal Consciousness.  That’s when you won’t feel that hatred, that dislike, that identity, that ego or arrogance, any such thing; everything subsides, it becomes quiet.  That’s how a yogi doesn’t make any such judgments, any such definitions for themselves, becomes totally quiet, silenced, everything.  Once it realizes “That ‘I’ which I was thinking as ‘I,’ of that I had imagined was not that ‘I’ actually.  That ‘I’ is that Ultimate Truth.”  So, like that it will realize.  That’s how the realization comes. “I am not this body or anything belonging to this body, inside this body also. I am simply all pervaded.  Body is inside me.”  So, this realization and experiences you will be able to get through deeper meditation.  Deeper meditation why I mentioned, as the meditation progresses, means when the mind goes on becoming silent and silent and silent, then it goes introvert, layer after layer it goes introvert, introvert, and becomes more silent, more silent, more silent, totally when that hundred percent silence is achieved, everything disappears; that ego, that individualness all disappears in the consciousness; one Universal Consciousness remains there.

Question:    Thank You Babaji.  So, this imagination power, power to think, and as Babaji has explained, the problem is when we think that our imagination is a reality we get into problems, but Babaji, is this imagination simply a quality of this energy consciousness?  How does this…

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, it has the ability to be creative, to be thinking.  Thinking itself should not be a problem, but while thinking if we get carried away with that thinking, thinking that that thinking to be the truth, and then we lose our actual all-pervadedness and start thinking as an individual.  See, that’s how everybody in this world when our existence is threatened, means that the body is threatened, we start feeling that we are threatened whereas nothing can happen to us. That’s how scriptures like Bhagavad Gita talks; “No weapon can slay, no fire can burn, no water can soak.”  Like that, go on telling, so that means that is this; we are the space.  See, just like from outside also if we see, space is only one such entity which no weapon can slay, and no fire can burn, and no water can soak, rest of all the thing is matter; it has its own limited appearance, its own time.  If human body has its own time, a mountain may have its own time, and the earth may have its own time, sun and moon may have its own time, stars may have its own time limits, but yet they will all disappear.  

So, that is how this consciousness and energy, the individuality.  If we do not meditate, means if we do not quieten our mind, we won’t be able to experience that truth.  So, then we will carry on to the next birth also – whatever we are imagining, that same basic nature is carried ahead and we become that type of personality; understanding capacity, observation capacity, whatever we pick up.  So, like for example Sri Krishna talking to Karna, when he was about to be killed, He tells “It is no doubt that you were wronged, injustice was done to you, perhaps for no fault of yours.  When you were born you were abandoned by your mother and the society refused to recognize you as a warrior.  Instead, they tried to belittle you.  But that doesn’t mean that you take a wrong path, you go into a hatred and you go on justifying wrong things in the world.  Instead, if you had not become slave to somebody.”  Like now, He tells Karna, “Because Duryodhana gave you the kingdom, you started thinking that you are indebted to him.  So, you went on keeping quiet for whatever wrong he was doing and in fact sided with him.  Thus, you lost the moral values, dharma – you lost that one.  Instead, you were such a warrior, you could have built your own kingdom also and help people of your clan and people of this world. Whatever that you could help somebody you could have helped.  That was the right thing.” 

Like that, Sri Krishna, He also got subjected to injustice.  His parents were jailed by the wicked king, and His siblings, seven of His siblings were killed as soon as they were born.  So, these things He realized, but He himself did not side with some wicked person or did not feel Himself to be a helpless person.  Instead, He tried to overcome all helplessness, maintained that individual…what you call it as the independence, independent thinking. Whatever wrong was wrong, whatever right was right, because He was not after any power or any status at all.  He was totally a free person.  He didn’t want to become a king of any kingdom.  He didn’t want to anybody to be His friend.  Instead, He became like that – everybody wanted His friendship, everybody wanted His help.  Sri Krishna became such a great personality.  He said “Karna, you could have become that instead of getting involved into these wrong things and today you are trying to teach us what dharma is.  You forgot dharma very often in your life.”  

   So, like that the consciousness, you see, gets misguided when it is thinking, goes on thinking.  So, when we think we need to be totally mature and also need to have our own consciousness or our own mind under our control so that we do not allow our mind to get corrupted unnecessarily.  Because of ignorance that corruption happens. If we are not ignorant, if we have realized the Ultimate Truth and that knowledge and wisdom is there, we won’t allow our mind to become corrupted.  It’s not necessary; we won’t be making any judgment out of a small narrow-mindedness and individually imagined self, that’s all gone.  We realize we are the space.  It is the same space, everywhere it is there but because of ignorance – in some entities it is depicting ignorance or selfishness, narrow-mindedness, ego, anger, all these things, corrupted-ness it depicts.  That’s how when we see human beings – let us take up human beings for a while – we get to see in the society people becoming selfish, narrow-minded, vengeance, hatred, and want to grab somebody else’s property, want to go on insulting somebody else, want to belittle somebody else, all these things.  We try to make judgments on who is right and who is not right; “This is very wrong, this is very wrong.”  Like this we go on doing, so we allow our mind also to become corrupted.  Then one day karma will have its repulsive effect on us, then we keep asking, “God, what did I do in my life?  Why do I have to undergo all this suffering?  Why do I have to go undergo?”  That’s because we lost the knowledge of Self long ago, and then we went on operating in the Creation, being born and dying, being born and dying like ‘punarapi jananam punarapi maranam’, Adi Shankara’s words. We went on doing that one, and in every life the mind went on thinking and lost control over itself.  Thus, it became corrupted, and we got involved into this birth and death.  

   Once, now, when we were fortunate, we could find a Guru like Shivabalayogi who gave us the amazing technique, “Just meditate and know yourself.”  That’s all He said.  But if you go on meditating only then you will know yourself.  If you don’t meditate properly, you will not know yourself.  Fifty years will pass by simply; you will maintain that ego.  Ego becomes dearer than knowing the truth.  One has to be given up, you cannot maintain both.  Like Jesus said “You cannot serve both masters.  Either you serve the money or you serve the spirituality.”  So, both cannot happen.  So, you get carried away either with this or with that one that you want, then finally if you realize “There is something wrong in me.  I need to have that knowledge of the Self. Who am I?  I need to know myself”. Then vigorously, sincerely, seriously, understanding the technique, you sit for meditation.  See, at least people are waiting, more than a hundred and thirty people keep waiting for a Saturday, “Babaji will conduct a Zoom class.  He will make us do meditation and then He will be answering questions.  What topic will come next, what questions is Zen going to ask?”  They might be waiting if they are serious and really interested in knowing the truth.  So much is there in this conscious and energy also to know; how the ignorance happens and due to the ignorance, corruption happens.  When corruption happens, we suffer and we try to make others suffer. And in all these things the same consciousness is there, yet it is experiencing individual imagined self unnecessarily, whereas there is no difference in me and you, but we keep thinking you and me are different, and you keep disliking me, I keep disliking you; you hate me, I hate you and I accuse you, you keep accusing me.  There is no end for these things.  It keeps on going and going.

  Finally, only when you realize the Self, the Ultimate Truth then all these stop, all this hatred, all this anger, all this vengeance, all these differences.  You simply feel pity if anybody is angry with you.  He is accusing you; you feel pity.  “What a pity, because they know not what they are doing.  Forgive them.”  That prayer will come.  That can come only if that person was a Self-realized one.  Such gracious prayer came out when His body was being tormented.  It was going to be killed.  He could pray for this “They know not what they are doing.  Forgive them.”  That grace and that polish can come only when the knowledge of the Self is there, not till then.  So, that is the effect of consciousness, individuality and the Universal Consciousness when you merge with that one.

You merge with the ocean and you will get to see the droplets coming up and keep fighting and keep killing each other, try to hit each other and they will fall back into ocean but again they will crop up because they have become habitual to keep hitting each other.  Mind becomes corrupted.  Vashista also warns, “When you entertain such enmity, both will become corrupted and both will be subjected to be born and die again and again and they will carry on that hatred to the next life also.”  See, how dreaded it can be.  We will be carrying our own karmas like that unnecessarily. If we realize the Self, finished – the drama is over.  It was all a make-believe movie; it was done on the screen, that is all.  Nothing is happening.  But for this a practical knowledge is important.  Simply by listening to theories mind will not settle down.  It has become corrupted since time immemorial.  It needs to be regaining its form as the pure consciousness, purity.  It has to give up all dualities of good and bad, rise above that level to the most purified status, the Self.  So, that is why sadhana is taught.  

Meditation is one of the highest sadhanas and all other exercises taught in religion, remembering God chants, music, all these things should cool down the mind.  It should make the mind non-violent.  If such a music is unable to cool down the mind, so such a music is not useful.  The music should be divine in nature, melodious in nature, beautiful, should be. Naturally the mind should be able to become quiet and enjoy that quietness, that serenity, that peace.  Sitting with me if your mind becomes quiet and at peace then you are able to enjoy the quietness and serenity.  That is the effect of the Divinity.  That’s what we try to talk.  We try to brainwash or whatever it is – overcome this illusion, overcome this ignorance, try to understand the truth what you are.   You are That.

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  So, just to dwell on the imagination a bit more.  The imagination itself, the creativity, the creation is not in itself wrong; we have made the wrong judgments in our own small consciousness.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, we lost control over that. You need to have control. You imagine, you be creative, but you need to have a control. So that is how even the scriptures talk, “Just for sake of Divine play the creation happened using the technology of creativity, or in other words imagination.”  That’s how the scripture talks.  Such beautiful knowledge is given by Vasishta; “Only through the technology of imagination, just for sake of play, creation happened.”  Because you see, you can see about yourself means, every individual who is here, when you imagine, that simple imagination is not going to be very useful for you to give you more peace, unless you are able to think how to overcome the effect of imagination, how to regain control over that one, and regain the peace.  So, if you think in that direction. That that is how Vashista tells, “If at all you have to think, think about the Ultimate Truth, think about the atman that you are.”  Don’t allow the thinking to go haywire, losing control about this world or personalities.  We don’t need that one.  What we need is our real Self, what it is.  If at all we have to think, think how to become quiet.  That is the highest thinking. How to gain the knowledge awareness of the Self.  When we become quiet, we will know ourselves.  As long as we are imagining, we will know whatever we are imagining.  That is the truth, highest truth that we need to have.  So, thinking itself, for a while, may not be wrong, but we need to have control and think in the right direction.

Question:   Babaji, You said earlier that consciousness gives you the ability to be aware, and when our consciousness is applied using the brain externally we are aware of the things around us and on our individual self, but the consciousness itself, when it’s aware of itself, that’s without any thought because the brain allows thought, so, is that right?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you see now, see another important point.  What happened, we have a brain.  That’s wonderful; it is so helpful for us to live in this world. And through the brain we can have consciousness of the outside world that is outside our physical body, about our physical body also, and about the world.  So now, point is, having that consciousness of the outside world itself is not a problem, but the problem arises when we consider this appearance as true in nature and we start imagining this appearance with our own limited ability and get involved. Then the trouble starts for us.  Unhappiness, stress, fear, confusion, everything starts coming; dislike, hatred, anger, all these things, turmoil comes within.  So, we get involved into stressful things when we start thinking with our own limited capacity, with our own ignorance.  If at all we gain the awareness of this world, we should have the thorough knowledge and wisdom of what this is, and try not to get involved mentally too much, at least not too much for a while.  Just like you switch on a movie and watch the movie itself is not a wrong thing, but if you get carried away with the movie, forget about yourself watching the movie and start considering everything as the reality and you start thinking about that movie and you entertain your own mind to get involved into that movie and you experience all the unhappiness, stress, fear, corrupted-ness, everything, then you are in trouble.  Otherwise, just watching a movie is not a problem, as long as you don’t get involved into it.  So, that is why a yogi is said to be a witness, saakshisarvaadhi saakshi bhutam.  

In the shloka of Guru Gita, a yogi, the sadguru, the realized Master is only a witness.  He’s not getting involved.  We are witnessing the world.  We are able to see, but thoroughly aware that one Self, single Self is everywhere.  It is the purest consciousness everywhere.  Simply, wherever the ignorance is there, it is depicting its own nature, a good or a bad, a hatred or a wrong, or this or that, arrogance or ego, all these things keep coming.  So, they are all into trouble because of this.  That’s why day in and day out we tell “Know yourself, come on, know yourself.  Don’t get involved so much.”  You live in the world, no problem.  Any way of life you want to be, that’s no problem, but don’t get involved too much.  So that at least when you sit to eat your food you shall have some peace, some serenity. You need to enjoy.  That’s possible only when you are quiet. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  Baba, in science, when they’ve looked at smaller and smaller particles of matter, they realize that actually there is nothing really solid in this world.  They’ve realized that in fact it’s all energy itself, waves, fields of energy.  Are they getting a glimpse of this sort of Supreme Energy of existence? And actually that nothing really solid exists in this universe? 

Babaji Maharaj:   They are getting closer, but they need to know the final method to get into the Ultimate Truth of consciousness.  You see, from outside you can never get in touch with the consciousness; only a void place appears always.  So, when they come across the matter, split it into smaller and smaller and smaller, smaller, then they realize nothing solidly exists, then that stops.  Further, they won’t know how this matter came into existence.  When the matter is not going to be there, finally what is the final truth, root cause?  That root cause, you need a certain technology through which you can realize.  For that you need your mind.  You have to go introvert.  The mind has to become quiet.  Only the mind can get in touch with that Supreme Consciousness.  Just now, the mind is in the clutches of the brain.  To get out of those clutches itself is a very big thing to understand – that I have to become quiet.  Then what remains? Then that consciousness of existence, when that is experienced, that yogi realizes, “To realize this consciousness of existence I had never needed the brain”, because there is no analyzation there; “What is this?”  You simply experience the existence before the merger, but you have stopped analyzing and making any judgments; you won’t be doing, “What is this?”  Only through this method you can realize about the Ultimate Truth.  Otherwise, it will leave you confused finally.  That is what is needed.  For a while we can forget about religion, God, any such things, but Ultimate Truth, at least, to realize, “This is it.”  So thus, we will be able to finally get rid of getting involved into this creation, control of which we had lost since time immemorial.  Because of that, unhappiness happened, and we have been looking for happiness.  

So, we forgot ourselves, now we are looking for happiness in our own creation, but our own mind is unable to remain into a one thought entity, like the example of happiness, it cannot remain into happiness at all times.  It will become unhappy as long as it operates as a mind, because its ego nature doesn’t accept everything as it is.  This world is happening.  It is not that our mind created this world – a higher consciousness created, but with our mind, we want this world to revolve or happen according to our mind’s imaginations.  So, that imagination will be totally selfish, confined to this physical body.  That’s why these things don’t happen.  

Sometimes things appear to be happening as we want; sometimes it doesn’t happen, so we are confused.  We try to blame somebody.  If God is there, God should be doing like this.  We try to judge God; “If it is God, God should be doing this way that I want it to happen”.  So, He is doing.  Let Him do His way.  It is His way, He plays.  A child builds a castle out of sand.  When it is tired, it will simply make it collapse and go back to home; it is the child’s play.  But for an ant it is so realistic and so dreaded.  That is the problem, the lack of proper knowledge and wisdom.  Once that is acquired, then you achieve peace.  For that only you have to meditate, means you have to learn to watch this world and not analyze, not make any judgment, thus, you won’t be getting involved.  These three words you just have to watch this world, do not get analyzing effects and get involved, don’t make any judgment at all.  First thing, don’t try to analyze and don’t try to judge.  At this point many people may get into doubts; “If we do not analyze in this world, how to know what is good and what is bad for us in this world if we don’t make a judgment?”  That is also possible.  There is a thin edge of difference:  you analyze and make a judgment, but don’t take it seriously to your mind.  If there is a wrong thing you feel in this world, you make a judgment, you try to analyze, “Yeah, this is wrong that is happening”, but don’t take it too seriously to the mind that twenty-four hours you are unable to forget about it, then you lose your peace.  It is not a reality.

 To live in this world only you need that analyzation and to make judgments – not in reality for yourself.  I repeat the sentence, you need that analyzation and making judgments to live in this world, not really for your real Self.  It loses its effect; it is not needed. You watch a movie just to sit down and time-pass, but when you need to go to sleep, don’t keep playing the movie, then you won’t be able to sleep peacefully. Like that, what I am trying to tell. 

Facilator:   Thank You Babaji. 

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.  When you are in deep meditation and you are doing tapas, are you aware of the body?

Babaji Maharaj:   No, when you go so deep into tapas, when samadhi is coming, you will not be aware of the body. Only when you come out of that status then you will gain the body’s consciousness again.

Same Questioner:   So, no body consciousness, nothing, only the Self?

Babaji Maharaj:   Only the Self-consciousness will be there.

Question:    Can the thought be conscious of itself? Instead of the watcher just observing things, can the thought itself gain consciousness, since it is made of consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Consciousness has created a thought, so that thought is not conscious of itself as the Consciousness.  It is conscious as a thought only when the ignorance happens.  If the thought is conscious of itself as the Consciousness, then the thought disappears.  If the thought is maintained, it is there, that means it has lost consciousness of itself as the Consciousness, so, it is thinking itself as that thought that we have generated.  Like if we had generated about a horse, of an apple, so that thought is conscious that itself is only a horse, that’s how ignorance has happened.  The moment it regains that it is only Consciousness and it is not a thought, that thought collapses, merges.

Question:   Babaji, if I could just ask? You know how the Supreme Consciousness of existence, using the imagination ability this universe was created. Within that creation smaller consciousnesses arose.  So, I suppose for a small consciousness like our human mind, when we dream for instance, many characters appear in the dream; those characters are in themselves not able to be conscious or are they somehow conscious?

Babaji Maharaj:   They are not able to be conscious that it is consciousness.  You see, when you are dreaming that dream appears so solid, yet just now as you are talking the science has discovered that no matter is solid actually, but during that ignorance time, during that dreaming it appears so solid, and every character, every story that would be happening appears to be so realistic. And you are watching also – you also get carried away with that dream as if it is a reality happening to you.  This confusion is there.  You as that character and you as the watcher both get carried away with what is happening.  When you get up… After getting up also, it takes time for you to realize it was after all only a dream.  Majority of people try to find out some meaning for the dream as if some reality happened and they get carried away with that dream.  If it was happiness, unhappiness, any meaning, any meaningfulness and no meaning, anything they try to keep analyzing and judgments, and go into such an imagination, they start wondering.  If at all it is a positive dream which can push you positively towards the Ultimate Truth that was all the best use, otherwise it needs to be considered only as a dream, only as an imagined thing really which never existed at all.

Facilitator:   Thank You Babaji. 

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  So, I just want to see if I can get a little more clarification on this.  If every individual being on earth that is consciously aware of itself is ultimately a droplet borrowing consciousness from the great ocean of Consciousness, what is it that is developing within that individual droplet that causes it to be able to get to this point where we are a human being able to perceive the Divine and be receptive to the idea of Self-realization, or even a yogi, whereas like a smaller, less developed being like a dog or a bird is not able to perceive those concepts.  Why has our individuality got to that point?

Babaji Maharaj:   That is why human body or the human life is considered a rarest of rare gem; that has a well-developed brain.  This brain in the human body has given us the ability to discriminate also, real or unreal, good or bad and particularly permanent and impermanent, real and unreal.  You see, whereas all animals are unable to do it, generation after generation their botheration is only to fulfill the body urges, hunt food and take it. After that they don’t start thinking anything.  

But humans are unable to keep quiet.  They keep thinking.  When this thinking reaches its saturated point of ‘enough is enough’ stressfulness, then such a person starts thinking “What is the problem?  Is something wrong in me, something wrong in this world, something wrong in my thinking?  What is the truth actually?  Is what I am thinking the truth or something else is the truth?”  So, that is how we are able to perceive this; that’s how the ancient sages…  Whereas, you see in the science till now their main aim is to find out about the universe, appearance of the universe.  Nobody starts thinking to find out about our existence, our own Self, still haven’t come to that stat. Whereas those sages, they started thinking “Are we born with this body? Are we going to become extinct, finish when the body dies, or are we going to exist in some other form?  Who are we actually?  What is this fun of being born and dying?”  As Sri Rama asks in Yoga Vashista, the first question, “In the world, it seems everybody is struggling to fill up their belly.  If they don’t give food also, they will die, and they all go on giving food also, they will die one day.  Every day you give food to your body but there is no guarantee that you will not die one day.  What is this fun?” He asks.  So, like that these thoughts are generated because of the help of this brain.

Same Questioner:   Okay, Thank You for clarifying Babaji.  

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  In the past You had given an example where You mentioned that as long as we are enjoying an ice cream or an object that we plan to obtain, our mind is involved in getting the object of desire.  So, once we finish eating an ice cream, again the mind goes into unhappiness mode.  Similarly, once we get like a new job or a new car or a new house the happiness again becomes elusive. So the happiness does not lie in the object that we are trying to pursue but it’s actually in the mind itself,  is that right Babaji?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, mind becoming quiet.  It can become quiet when it is contented, either temporarily or permanently.  That is the difference.  If it is contented, temporarily for a while you enjoy that happiness; once that is gone, again the craving of the mind starts for something else.  So, through the sadhana of spirituality, if it becomes quiet once for all and the contentment comes, then it is always happy.

Same Questioner:   Thanks, Babaji.  Pranaams

Question:   Many people look towards things like running, jogging, creating art, or creating music, playing music as a way to quiet the mind.  Is that like a prelude to meditation?  Is that helpful, heading in the right direction or is that a distraction?

Babaji Maharaj:   It can be helpful. Whichever is not harmful to physical health and mental health, any such exercise is definitely helpful as a prelude to meditation eventually.  One needs to realize that you need to quieten your mind so that the mind becomes quiet on its own without any other external anchor, any other type of exercise, that exercise you have to come to.  So, we can consider these exercises which are healthy, jogging and doing exercises physically also, keeping yourself positively engaged – that’s what the thing is. And then you should find out the way, understand the technique how to quieten the mind on its own.  That’s what I keep telling about this meditation.  This meditation helps you to keep your mind quiet on its own without any external anchor.  So, that is a prelude you can consider.

Same Questioner:   So, creating art quiets my mind – that’s good but I need that art to quiet the mind so then eventually I’ll have to let that go?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, finally mind has to become naturally [quiet] on its own.

Same Questioner:   Thank You Babaji.

Question:   I listened to You say about analyzing and try to avoid analyzation what we see going on.  But sometimes it seems to me in meditation or even during the day if I’m trying to practice and maybe be closer to myself, that I have to in a way suffer a recognition of the ego and the arrogance and ignorance that sits within my mind as a start.  It’s only when I’ve had sort of a taste of that, that something in me wants to awake and try and really pursue.  It’s like in meditation you get taken away by a thought, and then suddenly you realize to come back, but sometimes that’s from recognizing that it’s one’s ego and ignorance and identification with one’s brain that’s taking one away.  Is that the case?  Do we have to suffer that a bit?

Babaji Maharaj:   For a while, it’s okay to understand, but should not get involved too much into those analyzations – that’s what I was trying to tell. Because finally, like when you are meditating, the meditating job is just to watch.  While watching, nothing else should be there, no analyzing, no judgment, but for a while if you need to get back to watching, you try to analyze that the mind is going in the wrong way and try to bring it back to quietness, then you get back to watching again.  That watching process must not be abandoned.  You need to take care of that, then the meditation will be very progressive and smoothly goes,

Same Questioner:   And I mean one of those points is, sometimes in the day when you’re working with other people, and you suddenly realize that you’re responding to other people from you’re arrogance or your own ego, and in that moment there’s kind of a pang of suffering to “Oh, hang on a minute, where is this coming from?”

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, that’s what we try to call ‘mind’s acquired habits’; mind reacts in such a way.  Sometimes, if you are defending yourself, for a while, with that instinct, that is fine, that is good, but you should not be too habitual to keep thinking even after that job is done also.  Once that job is done, you forget about it.  So, like that you have to practice.  This comes only when you strongly meditate long hours.  Still by a basic nature you’ll be able to react in such a way but you will not allow it to affect you too long a time; you’ll forget about it. 

Question:   Guruji, Namaste.  Does the mind die?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, mind itself doesn’t die.  It simply regains its original form of pure consciousness.  When the same consciousness is into thoughts – as long as thoughts and visions are there, we call it as mind, ‘my mind,’ ‘my mind wants to do,’ when it is thinking.  When the thinking stops, what remains is the pure consciousness, but the ability to think is always there; you will not lose it.  Simply, you will gain control over your mind, your consciousness, that when you need to think you will think, when you don’t need to think you can keep quiet.  This is possible when you practice meditation.

Same Questioner:   But when you die?

Babaji Maharaj:   The mind will assume – as long as the mind is thinking, it is visualizing; based on its thinking and visualization it will assume next birth, just like this birth also came.  So, this world appears to you based on your thinking attitude, right?  So, when death happens, means brain stops functioning, but the mind gets detached from the brain’s clutches and it spins into such an effect based on its thinking habits, then it assumes next birth.

Same Questioner:   Okay.That means the mind carries on.

Babaji Maharaj:   It carries on. Until you don’t achieve total quietening of the mind, that’s what is samadhi, then only the rebirth stops and you merge with the Ultimate Truth.  Till then the birth keeps happening.     

End of Questions and Answers

End of Session

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