Recorded on 23 May 2026 with worldwide participants.
0:00 Intro
0:28 Babaji’s first personal meeting with Swamiji
7:37 How Babaji got to the Dehradun Ashram from the station
8:22 How did Babaji feel arriving at the Ashram in the middle of the night not knowing anyone?
12:49 Did Swamiji give Babaji any instruction on what to do at the Ashram?
14:14 What routine did Babaji follow at the Ashram when He was by Himself?
16:44 When Swamiji was at the Ashram, how was the routine different?
29:23 Swamiji asking Babaji to look after a mentally challenged boy within a few years of joining the Ashram.
37:43 Swamiji showed a great deal of affection to Babaji but His guidance could often be very strict.
44:49 It might look to an outside observer that the situation was unreasonable and uncontrolled but it was like a surgical procedure that was being performed.
48:20 Why is Mount Kailash a sacred mountain?
49:33 What is the Soul?
51:38 Why does the mind fall silent when in the presence of a Master?
53:38 What sort of relationship should we have with our body?
55:40 What is the importance of Brahmacharya in the practice of meditation?
57:25 Did Babaji ever speak to Swamiji’s mother Parvathamma? What was she like?
59:35 Some pointers in progressing further in meditation.
1:00:51 Being a musician, a melody stays in the mind during meditation. How to overcome this?
Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.276
Babaji’s Life with Sri Swamiji
YouTube Link: https://youtu.be/X0krkcDwiAk
Recorded: 23 May 2026
Start of Questions and Answers
Question: Babaji, the last time we were together, we spoke about the early days of Babaji’s life, and we were hoping during this session to discuss the years that Babaji spent in Swamiji’s ashram, please.
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah.
Question: So, Baba, after Babaji had waited three years under His mother’s direction to join the ashram, Baba wrote to Swamiji and He was accepted to come to Swamiji in Bangalore and take the ticket etc. to go to Dehradun. Babaji describes that first personal meeting with Swamiji, He was so overwhelmed by Swamiji’s presence He could hardly speak with Swamiji. Could Babaji please speak about that?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah. It was sometime in June, July that first I wrote to Swamiji that I want to come to ashram now, it is time. And I did not know anything about the Dehradun ashram. I told I want to live in Bangalore or Adivarapupeta, serve and meditate and know myself, all such things. So, immediately Swamiji’s reply came, that “You can come and stay in Dehradun ashram. This is very ideal for your stay and for your sadhana also it will look after also.” So, that was how that reply came. Then afterwards, finally in October or November I think, the person who had written on behalf of Swamiji, he wanted me to go and meet him and he sent me to ashram, “You go to ashram, tell Swamiji that you have come to go to Dehradun ashram and they will give you ticket and you can collect and go.”
I went; it was a Sunday, I remember. There was a queue. I just stood in the queue and once I entered the hall in which He was giving darshan and He was sitting on the dais on a tiger skin, I totally became silent and nothing came to the brain, I think; mind also became blank and didn’t know what to do, just was watching Him. As I went on watching, watching, I reached His place and touched His feet, and in between eyebrows I touched legs, toe-finger – that used to be my practice whenever I went to do pranaams to Him. And then simply came out and didn’t know what to do. And I was overwhelmed, I again didn’t go inside, didn’t again ask anything. I came back and told that person with whom I was staying, “I just went and I didn’t know why I didn’t ask anything. I just became silent, my mind got blocked and I couldn’t ask anything. And I think they also didn’t recognize me or didn’t tell. So, I just came.” “Oh,” that person hit his head, “Oh, what type of boy you are. I told you, you should have told Swamiji that you have come to go to Bangalore.”
Next day, I think, He sent me again. “You go and you speak to another person who is in the office in charge. He will make you to speak to Swamiji.” So, I just went and asked and then they took me inside and I met Swamiji. I told, this is the thing. Then Swamiji said, “Okay, you come and collect the tickets one day before.” And that was how I collected the tickets one day before I went there. And then Swamiji first thought that I might have booked the ticket. I told Him, “I don’t have any single penny with me. I need Swamiji’s help.” Then Swamiji said, “Okay, we will book the ticket and tell you.” Then next day I went, then they told me that thirteenth was the date that the ticket was booked, and that person in the office he had booked, he said, “On twelfth evening you come…” – this was in November 1974 – “…you come and collect the tickets.” So, I went there and after I met Swamiji, He said “In the office, they will give you a ticket and they will also give you a hundred rupees for your wayside expenses to reach until Dehradun, because the train ticket is only up to Delhi. From there you need to buy another ticket and go to Dehradun. Taxis also go, shared taxis,” Swamiji told. “You go by shared taxi, it will be better for you.” So, like that, then I came out and was sitting.
That was when, I remember, Swamiji’s mother came. “Oh,” She spoke to me. And She was calling that office person; he had gone somewhere nearby to buy something, I think. And She was restless, “Oh, this boy has come from a long distance in Bangalore. He has to go to the other end of Bangalore. Why don’t you give him his money and ticket and send him? You are making him wait.” And She was shouting that person’s name. Then She took my hand and took me outside in the veranda. A lot of ladies and devotees, others were all sitting. She told about me, “This is the one; Swamiji has taken him and he is sending to Dehradun and he is very lucky.” “Adrushtavantudu,” She said. ‘Adrushta’ means ‘bhagyavan’ type, the luckiest person, he is very fortunate. Rather, I would use the word ‘fortunate’. “He is very fortunate,” Swamiji said.
So, that day I still remember. That was the last time I met Swamiji’s mother. She was so affectionate and she proudly said as if She was talking about her own son. Afterwards, they came and gave me the ticket. Then Swamiji’s mother said, “After collecting the ticket, go one more time to Swamiji. Tell Him that you got the ticket and that you are going.” And I went inside and told Swamiji, “I’m leaving now. I got the ticket. Tomorrow morning is the train for me.” Swamiji said, “Very nice. You look after the ashram carefully.” These words also I did not understand; that I am supposed to look after, I am going to be alone there. I thought many other people will be there, I am the junior at most just going. By the time I learn it will be a lot of time like that. So, then finally I came and thirteenth I left and fifteenth of November I reached Dehradun in the night-time. That was how I landed in Dehradun Ashram. In this year, November, it will be fifty-two years. How time has passed by so quickly, I cannot recount anything. Nothing is in my mind now of all this time that has passed by. It is just like a dream sequence; within two minutes it has finished.
Question: Babaji was only twenty-years old at that time, and He’d always lived at home with His mother looking after Him. He caught the train and then a bus, I think, perhaps to Dehradun.
Babaji Maharaj: To Dehradun I took a shared taxi. A cab used to carry in which you could share, per seat also a person could go. So, in those days it was 33 rupees; imagine, fifty-two years ago it was, a taxi; for a hundred and fifty rupees you could get the whole taxi to Dehradun. That’s how I got a seat and I traveled in that and reached at night.
Question: Babaji, how did Babaji feel arriving there in the middle of the night and He knew no one and wasn’t even sure where the ashram was?
Babaji Maharaj: The lady who was in Dehradun ashram was sent by Swamiji temporarily from Bangalore only to be there. Because till then nobody used to be there. Only a gardener used to be there when in the absence of Swamiji. I think once a week, devotees from Dehradun used to come and do bhajans, and then go away, then the whole week it used to be only that gardener, known as maali in Hindi – gardener means maali. So, he used to be there. But then Swamiji said, “It seems a young boy is coming from Mysore, he doesn’t know anything. You be there for a few months with him, train him so that he can learn what he all needs to look after in the ashram. Once it is done, then you can come back.” So, like that I knew that some lady is there, one lady is there.
She was quite an old lady, sixty, sixty-five years old. But by seeing the name in the letter, she thought that I’m also an old man. She didn’t expect a young boy would be coming to live in the ashram. That night when I got down the city bus after reaching Dehradun, I came to the city bus stand. That office person in Bangalore had guided me how to go and take the city bus. Last bus was available which was going to Rajpur. I told him I have to get down at Balayogi Ashram, Vijayalakshmi Pandit’s building. That was the bus stop. He stopped the bus and it was pitch darkness. For one minute I couldn’t see, I didn’t know which direction I have to start walking – right, left, or which way I have to go. Then opposite, at the Vijayalakshmi Pandit’s house, the watchman came out. The light was on with a torch. I requested him, “Do you know where is Shivabalayogi Ashram?” He said, “Can you just go a few steps and you will see that one.” “Can you show me the torch a little bit?” “No, no,” he said, “I cannot come out. I have to be here only.” “Okay.” Then I started walking with a small suitcase and a small bed in my hand. Just walked and slowly came.
The gate was wide open and the light was in the portico. I didn’t see any board at that time near the gate. It used to be on the building, I think. I couldn’t notice in that midnight. Slightly scary. Should I go inside? What if some dog is there? What if anybody objects? Is this the ashram, what is it? So, I just walked slowly, slowly. And I came to the portico and the door was bolted from inside and I came, I knocked that door. Then this lady Tilakamma opened. And I told her, “I am Srinivas Dixit, I have come from Bangalore to stay here.” She was damn surprised, “You look like a baby boy and I thought it’s an old man coming from Mysore to stay in the ashram. What has happened to you? Why have you decided to come to the ashram?” She also asked the same question. “In this young age, why do you want to come and stay? Have you run away?” I said, “No, no, no, no, my mother has permitted, so that’s why Swamiji has sent me permission.” And I came and sat and I told her this is the one. That’s how she opened. So that’s how I reached.
Vividly I remember that night in 1974, many of our boys wouldn’t even have born at that time, probably you are young today. It’s such a wonderful memory, that’s such a fond memory. And it was like coming to Mount Kailash for me, landing in Lord Shiva’s place. I was happy the target I have met, means where I needed to come, I have come. After that there’s nowhere I need to go, no other pilgrimage is there. That’s what I always felt, even today also. Only Swamiji’s ashram is my pilgrimage.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Babaji, did Swamiji give Babaji any instructions on what to do at the ashram?
Babaji Maharaj: No, when I left Bangalore, just one sentence; “Look after the ashram well,” He smiled and said. That’s all. Swamiji would talk very less and little; a small sentence, a few words, like that only He would tell. That was enough for me. It was like a command. It was like a promise, which I need not have had to utter from my mouth that I promised, and He also didn’t ask me for promise – but even today it’s like a command of the Master, and as if I had promised, so I need to follow that instructions, that as an order, that’s all my duty in life; I feel that. As long as my body has some strength, a little bit, that I can stay and work to look after the Dehradun ashram, work there as a servant of Swamiji. Even today the same temperament is there and same love for Swamiji, it never diminished even a little bit. Nothing. It is the same thing. I feel the same thrill. Like when I come to South and go back to Dehradun and I see that veranda, that place, the same thrill happens to me for a while. Then I settle down peacefully.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Babaji, Swamiji wasn’t always at Dehradun. He travelled about India and spent much of the time in Bangalore. What routine did Babaji follow at the ashram when He was by himself?
Babaji Maharaj: So, after getting up, I used to have a cup of tea and then clean up the ashram, upstairs hall, the dhyana hall, and all the steps, corridors, rooms, kitchen, everything I used to clean. Then I used to have a bath and then do the puja, then make my breakfast, then used to have breakfast, like this. And after that, after one or two years, when Swamiji introduced me to Yoga Vasistha, that’s when I picked up after attending to the morning chores of puja. If any office work is there, little bit I used to do, when nothing much was there, then I used to make some chapatis, go behind, sit under mango trees used to be there; there were no buildings, it was all beautiful, orchard was there. That’s what is the painful thing which has got destroyed so badly. Anyway, that used to be there. I used to read two or three pages of Yoga Vasistha, not much. Means I didn’t want to become a scholar of the book, just want to absorb the essence; what He teaches, what is it that we need to achieve by sitting into meditation, what is it that we need to do for that liberation or for that Self-realization.
So, like that I used to do. Then come back in the evening and every evening I used to do one hour of bhajan singing. That was like an exercise, spiritual exercise for me, a sadhana. And sometimes one hour of meditation again and then one hour of bhajans. Nobody used to be there. Very many days nobody used to be there, only once a week devotees used to come and then go away, the rest of the days I was alone. I used to imagine “Swamiji is sitting here and the sages and the goddesses and goddesses are all sitting here. They will listen to me singing.” I used to sing. So, when nobody was there, I used to sing very well with all the bhaava. It used to be beautiful days of sadhana. So thus, the mind dwelled inside within itself.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. So, Babaji, when Swamiji was in the ashram, how was the routine different then?
Babaji Maharaj: Totally different. Early morning three-thirty, Swamiji used to wake me up. I used to usually sleep outside Swamiji’s room in the dhyana hall itself, where now Swamiji dais is there. Somewhere close by only, I used to. There used to be so much of fatigue in the body. In the night, the moment I lay down, that was gone. It was like going into samadhi. I was totally unconscious. Then around three-thirty exactly Swamiji used to come out and come near me, standing near me. He used to wear His sandals. He used to make sounds, “tap, tap, tap.” I used to get up and sit, “Oh God”, as if some bang has happened. Then Swamiji said, “Hey, come on, come on, get up.” Then I used to quickly run down, heat some milk for Swamiji, and used to go for my washroom business, brush teeth, everything do, then bring Swamiji’s milk many times, then give Him the milk. Then most of the time He used to go for a walk in those days, then ready Him with all the dhoti, tie a dhoti to Him, tie a belt around His waist. and then give Him a coat; a long coat He used to have. My God, in that summer months He could wear that coat. I cannot wear any such cloths, long cloths are impossible. And then put His shoes.
So, these shoes, many funny things used to happen. If He was shouting, or in a rush, anything. Sometimes I used to put the left leg shoe to the right leg, right leg shoe to the left leg. Sometimes I used to forget the socks inside the shoes and put just the shoes. After walking, Swamiji would notice, “Hey badmaash, what have you done this?” Many days afterwards, two, three years later, some devotees used to come, some army officers or somebody, VIPs, they would come to walk with Swamiji early morning. So, first round I used to make tea for all of them and for Swamiji. Then once they had, ready Swamiji and then fill up thermos with water and other things, then walk with Swamiji, used to go behind to the riverbed and sit there. After He used to sit, then I used to run up because He used to ask me to bring another cup of tea for everybody. So, then we used to come.
Very often the gas was a very big thing. We used to have only one cylinder at that time and I had to struggle with the kerosene stove, pumping it, pumping it and very difficult, or sometimes the firewood, heat the water, put the tea leaves then milk and prepare tea. Then three or four thermos I used to fill up tea then take as many glasses in small buckets, steel buckets, take some water for all of them to wash, then carry down. So, all this time. It used to take some time, half an hour, forty-five minutes, like that. I had to be rushing. By then Swamiji would be shouting, “He must be eating something. Without eating, he will not bring a cup of tea for me. It’s like income tax that I have to pay him all the time.” Like that used to make fun. Those days were there.
Then after having tea, I used to quickly bring all of the cups, thermos, everything to wash. Then before Swamiji came, I had to clean Swamiji’s room thoroughly, mop it and set His bed, all, everything okay. Then clean, dust the hall and prepare for His massage, everything, keep the oil, everything ready. Then by then He would come. Then a couple of people used to be there who would massage Him. So, they were good devotees. Sometimes I also would join or I used to prepare a glass of sweet lime juice also, and then hot water for Him in the bathroom. Sometimes if electricity was not there, boiler was not functioning, then we had to use the firewood downstairs. All the way from downstairs behind the kitchen, I heated the water in a big drum and then bring in buckets to Swamiji’s room. Oh, it was a hell of a job like that one. Then afterwards give bath to Swamiji and give Him His breakfast. Then He would go to sleep, be with Him. So, fan by hand, if the electricity is not there, electricity is there, then put the fan. Then by that I would come down. Then I used to have a quick bath. Then I used to have my breakfast at twelve o’clock. Lunch time would be my breakfast time. Then the lunch time, actual lunch would be around three, four o’clock.
Then by the time then I would come, a lot of letters would come in those days. There were no emails or cell phones were not there, so many letters. Then I used to carry everything and give one glass of buttermilk to Swamiji, then read all the letters to Him. And sometimes if He’s talking to somebody, He would ask me just to go on reading. If I stopped, “Hey why are you stopping, you just read it, I can hear.” Then He would listen or whatever. Then He would say, “Okay, okay, you write blessings to all of them.” In one sentence He would finish telling. Then I had to bring and sit in the office table. There was no formal office there. A small table used to be there in a corner. I would sit and go on writing.
Somehow, by nature, I used to feel compassionate to all those devotees who would write such letters. From distance, long distance, different parts of the country, they write all their sadness or their prayers or wanting this or that. And I used to compassionately write to them, inducing faith, “Have faith, Swamiji has listened to your letter fully. He understands, He has conveyed His blessings, His blessings will always be there, have faith and devotion.” Like this, encouraging them I used to write all; so many letters I used to write, it would take a couple of hours more, so like that would go time. Sometimes in between it was so fatigued and sitting somewhere there on the ground, I used to go to sleep half an hour, one hour, then again four o’clock, take Him His tea, evening tea, any small snacks, and then prepare for the evening satsang, bhajans, everything, and prepare everything. Then if devotees had arrived, then come inside, bring Swamiji, and sit.
So, in between, these funny things and enjoyable. Just used to happen that I used to go inside Swamiji’s room again after making Him sit on the dais. That was the time sometimes I used to have sweets. Sometimes the water used to come in the pump. Then I used to fill up all the buckets and drums in Swamiji’s bathroom, full water, everything filled up so that we could use it later. That was needed until tomorrow, next day morning. Then I would come and sit. I also had to sing, would join. Then after the aarati was over, prepare prasad, everything ready. By the time Swamiji opens His eyes, it needed to be ready. If it was delayed, He would shout, “What are you doing all these things!” He would shout, go on shouting. Everybody would be shocked, “What happened? What happened?”
So, the aarati was over. Then I used to wake Him up with a towel, pressing His eyes and face, everything. So, before that, I had to keep the prasad ready. He would open His eyes, then giving the prasad in His hands, He would bless. Then give to some devotee to distribute that one and stand next to Him, because then devotees were allowed one by one to come and pray to Him, convey their problems, anything, then Swamiji would instruct. Many times I needed to interpret Swamiji’s language, and then whatever Swamiji told, I had to give the vibhuti to them, all the time standing.
So, after all the darshan, everything was over, then make Swamiji sit outside in the balcony, then go and bring Swamiji’s dinner. After half an hour, forty-five minutes, some devotees would be sitting, gossiping there with Swamiji. My job is to go down and bring food and make it ready. After bringing the dinner, tell Swamiji dinner has come. Sometimes He used to sit outside in the balcony, sometimes He used to come inside the room if many devotees were there, then He would tell, “Make all of these people go and sit and eat and put their plates by then and then come back to me quickly. So, take all the devotees downstairs, make them sit and ask the person to make some more rotis.” He would reluctantly, broodingly, he would make some rotis. So then put them rotis and then come back again to see Swamiji, had finished to wash His hands, everything like that.
And afterwards almost everybody used to retire. And that was the time Swamiji spoke some philosophical truths. Walking on the balcony, I used to be with Him until midnight, another one or two hours. Sometimes He used to talk on His own. Sometimes if I asked, He would answer. That is what the teachings comes from me now, in all the questions and answers, in all the teachings, everything. So, by the time He would go inside the room, it would be twelve or one o’clock sometimes. Then within one and a half hours, within two hours or two and a half hours maximum, three-thirty He would come and wake me up next time.
So, there was no time to think anything, no time to feel anything, no time to experience anything else. No experience of the world, no experience of the surroundings. no experience of people would be coming to the ashram. Like that, the mind was simply quiet and preoccupied with whatever I had to do attending Swamiji. That served like a beautiful meditation sadhana, like watching type. Watching means here, I was not closing the eyes or watching, just kept quiet and went on doing. The mind was quiet, not noticing outside world, nothing was there. In between, whether He was shouting or anything happened, I had to be smiling and laughing with the devotees who used to come also, look after them also. So, like this, this is just a little bit of a taste, a glimpse of how it used to be.
And so many things would happen. Sometimes I had to go to town also if a gas cylinder was finished and the person would tell it is finished, and I didn’t know how to go, I had to take somebody’s help sometimes or some go by in a bicycle, go to a long distance and try to bring that, requesting those people that “Mass feedings are happening in the ashram, I need a cylinder.” Because another cylinder the general would take away. We had only two cylinders, so managing with one cylinder was the most difficult. Every one week, within one week the gas used to finish, so I had to go again and bring. That was such a… I don’t know how I managed, I cannot believe that I did all those things now. It looks like it was only a dream that I used to have, used to go and bring the cylinder from a long distance. Sometimes if some devotee had a car, they would help. I would request them. They would take me with them and then bring it also. That was how the things… And sometimes we would go to market, needed to bring anything. If Swamiji had any work, He had told go there and get everything done. Go to bank, if anything needed. It was… I don’t know, energy, I cannot talk. How did it come? Definitely, there used to be so much of fatigue. Wherever I just sat, I used to go into a sleep, samadhi sleep, samadhi Yoga Nidra. That used to be a real Yoga Nidra for me, type of thing. And then somebody would wake me up, “Swamiji is calling you, come, come.” So, this is somewhat a little bit of glimpse how the days used to be.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Babaji, within a few years of Baba joining the ashram, Swamiji asked Baba if he’d look after a mentally challenged boy. Could Baba describe that experience, please?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, I think in 1978. He had a devotee’s family in Mysore. And the boy’s brothers were known to me also. I had met them several times in other satsangs and bhajan times. Then when Swamiji came, one day in 1978, He told me, “This boy is very violent to the family members in their home, they have kept him like a zoo animal in a room locked, and they are so scared of him. He becomes very violent. They keep the plate of food and then come out running quickly and lock it so that he doesn’t come and beat them up. He has not allowed them to shave his face also. The beard has grown. I have told them that if he comes to the ashram, he will be all right. Long ago I had told; when first time I went to Mysore in ‘66,” Swamiji remembered, “they had brought this boy. I told them, “If he comes to ashram, he’ll be all right.” I think now is the time, because you are here. Until now, there was nobody who could look after him. If you agree to look after, then I will send him with you here.” Then I said, Swamiji, “If you want, I will look after, no problem. But You must bless me. I don’t know how. I will look after.”
Because I never said no to Swamiji. That thing was not in our dictionary, to say no or to argue with Him. If He said, that’s it, finished. And the mind also wouldn’t brood or ask anything why I should be doing. “He’s saying and I’m doing”; because the mind used to be so mesmerized, overwhelming silence used to be there. He just said, “You look after.” I said, “Okay” – that’s it. Then at that time only Swamiji told this story. He used to tell in His own style. There was one Guru, Self-realized and he had some devotees. One day to test his disciples… in those days, Gurus used to go on trekking and would camp on the outskirts of a village in the evening. Then the disciples would go inside the village, beg for alms, then bring some food in alms, and first feed the Guru. Then they all would share the rest of the food and eat, like this. But this time, Guru, several days, he went on walking, walking, and never stopped at any village at all. Day and night they walked. All the disciples wouldn’t dare to tell they were hungry or tell that the Guru need to stop and they all need to rest. They all keep walking, walking.
So, after four or five days, they are walking in a small forest area on the outskirts of the village. There was a dead dog with foul smell coming. Then looking at that disciples, the Guru said, “Hey, you all are hungry. Come on, eat this, eat this dog.” Oh, then all disciples “chi chi chi chi chi,” they hold their nose because of the foul smell, they couldn’t tell the Guru is testing or what he’s saying. “I don’t know. This Guru is really mad. How can we eat the foul smell now?” Only one of the disciples who was very dedicated, he goes. Just because the Guru said, he doesn’t think anything, goes, puts his hand and starts eating. The moment he started eating, it all became halwa, Swamiji used to tell. It became halwa and he ate, the disciple ate it. And like this, when he listened to the Guru’s instructions simply with total faith and blindly, miracle worked and it came.
Other disciples said, “Oh God, if we also had listened to the Master, we would have had the halwa, we would have got good name and appreciation from the Master.” Then Master thinks of another lesson He wants to teach the disciples. Not always that you simply blindly follow. You need to take the Guru‘s instructions properly, blessings, like that. Then they walked for some more time, a few more days. On the outskirts of another village, they camped. And the Guru said, “Hey, look, on the tree at a distance a ghost is there. It is supposed to get liberated when it comes in contact with me and I will have to bless. So, if any one of you can bring that one.” All disciples run quickly, “The Master has said we just go and bring it.” But it doesn’t happen easily. That ghost beats them up and drives them away. This disciple understands; he comes and prostrates to the Master. “Please tell me how to look up, bring this ghost. It is very ferocious; it is not like eating the foul smell dog. This is a different case. You have to tell.”
Then the Guru tells, “Quietly go, keep talking sweetly, suddenly catch hold of the hairs of the ghost, then it will come to you,” He says. So, when ghost comes, then the Guru liberates it. Like this, Swamiji told this story. “Ah, this is the story, eh? If you also listen, you will get blessings. And that boy will not be violent with you. He will listen to you. And you do one thing. I will tell the trick also, even without you asking. So, look, threaten him, “Hey, I have not beaten, but now I am going to beat you.” But you don’t have to beat him. He will listen to you. And tell him, “If you don’t listen to me, I will send you back to Mysore,” and he will listen to you.” I said, “Okay.”
So, that was how Swamiji made me to look after that. Later, I also went to Bangalore in August. Then, I think, in October, November, he sent with me. We took him to Dehradun. For thirteen years he stayed with me like that. Many things we taught him; to water the plants and lock the gate and unlock the gates, like that all he used to do. He became, I don’t know, somehow he became so much attached to me, even throwing the dustbins, trash out on the behind, where I had shown him. If I tell him, he would do that. Sometimes when Swamiji would come, when other devotees, if anybody instructed him, he would just lift the bucket, a trash bucket and keep it back, “No, no, no, I cannot do.” Then they used to call me, “Seenu, you have to come and tell what magic you have done, I don’t know.” I said, “I haven’t done any magic, I don’t know Swamiji’s magic, His Grace.” “Hey Satisha, pick it up, throw the trash and bring back the bucket.” Quietly he would go, throw the trash and bring it back, like that.
Like that this was how this boy came and I could look after. But my mind not even once it thought why I should be looking after these mentally challenged people instead of meditating. There was no imagination for me what type of life I need to have in the ashram. I just wanted Swamiji. More than that there was no other imagination. And I was flexible. Whatever work was given, whatever came in front of me, I used to simply do it. So, that was important. My mind was totally silent, so it never felt anything of the difficulty or tiring or stress. Any such thing was never suffered in the mind.
Question: Thank You, Baba. That’s so beautiful to hear.
Question: Babaji, Swamiji showed Baba a great deal of affection, but also His guidance could be very, very strict. Could Babaji please speak about that?
Babaji Maharaj: Many times, but, well, He used to shout, for small, small things He used to shout. Sometimes even if it is a mistake, He wouldn’t say anything. But sometimes He used to keep shouting all the time. But it used to be only… say, He used to shout for half an hour, and sometimes He used to ask me to get out of His room also, “Don’t show me your face.” Then I had learnt. I used to come out of His room, go down, have a glass of water and come back to His room, means by then He would have forgotten. That temperament would have gone, He would be smiling, sometimes He would feed me with some sweets, He would be talking normally, He’d have forgotten that He had asked me to get out also.
That was one sad pain I saw in His life. Some, many devotees very close to Him, they left and went away. I thought, Swamiji shouted at them once. If only they had come in front of Him, He would have forgotten. He would have forgiven totally. If they had asked for forgiveness also, Swamiji would have melted down. That was Swamiji’s nature, compassionate nature. Means, suppose He would have shouted at you and you would have got threatened or egoistic or any humiliation, then you would like to go away, you would have gone. That was it. But instead of that, if you had come back in His front, He would have forgotten what He told you. That was the amazing thing, that here is the Self-realized yogi.
Because Swamiji used to tell, “You see, even knowingly or unknowingly also, a yogi cannot harm anybody. Even if I slap you, it will be beneficial, your karmas will be washed away. Even if I scold you, it will be like that;” Swamiji told once, I remember. Like that, because the mind is so pure consciousness. There is no imagination, no such neither attachment nor hatred, nothing is there. But many people didn’t understand who were close to Him. This was a surprise for me, what is the human ego. They were so close, they were so VIP devotees, would sit hours together with Him. But one incident happened, they went and they did not come back.
For that, another time when Swamiji was talking to me in the night, He said, “You see, two things. On one side the Guru is there, on another side ahamkaara, ego.” He told me this in the midnight hours. “Now you choose, when an incident happens, something happens, whether the Guru gets annoyed. You choose; you want the Guru or is your ego more dearer? Which one is dearer? See, many people, ego is dearer, they abuse me, Guru also and then go away.” This was when I was in Bangalore, one close devotee for long years, he was a doctor. Some incident happened and Swamiji scolded and he abused Swamiji so badly and went away. This Swamiji said, which one is dearer? That’s what people choose.
This is such an important philosophy, spiritual truth. Ego one side, Guru one side. Guru is needed so that we can get liberated. We need Self-realization. We need to serve. We need to love unconditionally. Unconditionally means under any circumstances we love Swamiji. Whether He loves or not is no problem. Whether He cuts us into pieces or not, no problem. Anything is no problem, what He wants. We want the Guru. But many people, Swamiji said, “Ego becomes so dearer to them. And they have abused me and gone away.” We saw it in our life. This is such a sad surprise. The prarabdha is such an amazing wonder, what happens to a person so close to Him. But when ego becomes dearer, they leave the Guru and go away and they never come back, and they lose the spiritual path also. They become annoyed with Swamiji, they have abused Swamiji, so many things, or at least they have forgotten Swamiji, something like that. They have done something wrong to acquire more karmas.
That’s what Swamiji used to tell, “Even if somebody abuses me, if they come in front of me, if I scold them, their karma can be wiped out,” He used to say. This was all the spiritual secrets and philosophical truths which is very difficult for any ordinary person to understand. So, we saw that. I used to wonder, what happened to this person? Used to be so close. Hundred times, thousand times we used to get such scolding, such humiliations, because it all became very common. It was just like every day Him giving a laddu. Equivalent to that laddu was humiliating or scolding us, like that it became, means that attachment, that relationship became more binding, more bonded. That bond of relationship became more closer with Him. Even today, no disturbance.
So, sometimes in my mind I used to say, “You try whatever you want to try, Swamiji, You cannot disturb my mind, I will love You. Come what may. You cut me into pieces.” That was how once He was telling a devotee, “Hey, look at my Seenu. I cut him into pieces and throw him into the river. He will join and he will come back. A person should be like that, no ego.” This is a great philosophical truth. If one can understand the Guru and disciple relationship, liberation becomes so easy, and Self-realization also is not far away at all for anybody. The Guru who teaches you the highest knowledge without charging for that knowledge, and He teaches; imagine what a great donor that the Guru is, a donor of such knowledge and wisdom.
Question: Thank You, Baba. So, Babaji, from the outside, it might look to an observer like if a normal person was in that state, they would be unreasonable and out of control. But actually, even in that state, Babaji still, it’s like a surgical procedure that He’s performing. It’s still very precise and controlled.
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, you see, it was like throughout whatever traces of ego would have had been in our consciousness, He removed it by this surgery. Means, for another person it would appear as unreasonable, harsh, but that was the real compassion. Just like a surgeon is compassionate to the patient, that’s why he performs the surgery. Like the Guru is compassionate, that’s why He performed that surgery, knowing that “This is my boy and I want him to be on the right path.” That’s how He told me once, “You take my beating or scolding, then the world will not point out at you a wrong finger. I’ll make you perfect.” So, imagine the effect of that surgery a Guru performs. This is the rarest of rare thing in Indian culture. coming from ancient times, very, very ancient time immemorial, a guru-disciple relationship.
In olden days also, Swamiji used to tell, in Gurukulam, when students used to go and to learn, they would be from all walks of life. Some could be from the royal family, some could be from rich families, some could be ordinary. They all were treated equally by the guru in the Gurukulam ashram. And the first thing the guru would teach them or wanted to do the surgery was to remove their egos, bring them equality and bring down that ego. Until then they would not even initiate the disciples into the sadhana until the ego [removal] was not complete. Such was the importance given by gurus and they used to take care that this ego needs to be. Present day generations it’s difficult, we cannot treat like that. After my tapas, jokingly I told, “This is the time the Guru needs to be careful that the disciple doesn’t get annoyed with him.” I told this. But our times were different. We were careful that the Guru shouldn’t get annoyed. But that is the difference – ego and the Guru. Guru is the knowledge, wisdom of the Ultimate Truth.
Question: Thank You so much, Baba. Babaji we do have some more questions, but we have several people raising their hands.
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, I could see it is already 6:47pm. Forty-seven minutes have gone! I just thought maybe fifteen, twenty minutes, let me see, and suddenly I realized forty-seven minutes have gone as we were both discussing this matter. Very lovely questions, thank you. I think we can take some questions for ten, fifteen minutes, whoever has raised their hand.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. I have two questions. The first one is a short one. You just mentioned some time ago today about Mount Kailash. I’ve heard many things about Mount Kailash, but what is, in Your opinion, what is there actually? Why is it a sacred mountain?
Babaji Maharaj: Since ancient times it is believed to be the abode of Lord Shiva for those people who are on the devotional path, though in the oneness, Advaita, the Divine Shiva is all pervaded, but His abode, Mount Kailash. So, that mountain also is very sacred to Hindus always, that is the thing. Once you consider a thing as a sacred, that is sacred, that is like Mount Kailash, Lord Shiva’s abode. Lot of stories could be there. As I told always, I am not a scholar, I haven’t gone into reading big stories, but this is the belief and faith, devotion.
Same Questioner: Okay, Baba. Thank You. The second question is, could You please explain, Baba, what is the soul? How is the soul related to Paramatma or the Supreme Consciousness? And how can we connect ourselves consciously with the soul?
Babaji Maharaj: See, in a simple language, the clue is your own mind. That is the first thing which is available. Yet, you are unable to be aware of that because that mind, which is that soul, is now in the form of mind, totally preoccupied with its own imaginations. So the meditation, sadhana is done that you achieve the silence. When you achieve silence, another clue is that all thoughts disappear, visions, but one thing is always there, which will not disappear, is a reality, is the consciousness of your existence. The ‘I’ is there. The rest all appears to be like space. With the naked eyes you cannot see, only you can feel. So now if this mind, which is pure consciousness, is a droplet, its ocean, its Ultimate Truth is what is Supreme Being, Parabrahma, all pervaded. So, that is that connection. To connect with that one, if your mind becomes silent, as silent as possible, then it goes towards its Ultimate Truth only, to merge, to get connected. If it is into imaginations, it is extrovert, away in imagination from its Divine. If it becomes quiet, then it goes to its Ultimate Truth. That is how final realization happens; the seer and seen disappear. This is that clue that is in front of you.
Question: Thank You, Babaji. Today is the 48th anniversary of initiation into meditation for myself. It’s a sacred day for me every year.
Babaji Maharaj: Wonderful.
Same Questioner: I was living in Canada and reading about this guru, and I wanted to see him in person. It was very important. So I purchased a one-way ticket. I had about twenty-five dollars, and I flew to India so that I could be with him in person. And when I requested a darshan almost immediately, and I was granted permission, I sat in front of him and my mind went blank. Not one single word could come out of my mouth, similar to Your experience. And my question is, I just want to say one other thing real quickly. When I first met You, and even now today, if I’m in a meditation camp with You, I have a very difficult time getting a question out. It’s just my mind goes kind of blank. So my question is, why does this happen? Why is it that the mind just can’t even think?
Babaji Maharaj: Your mind with total faith that it has developed such attachment to Babaji, so it goes blank. Because of that attachment, faith develops automatically and the mind becomes totally silent, and there doesn’t seem to be anything to ask. You just want to be in that presence, want to be watching. That’s when your mind becomes quiet. That is all that is needed. All sadhana, any type of sadhana, any meditation is taught only to silence the mind. If the mind becomes silent, you have nothing to ask.
Same Questioner: Can I get a blessing from You today?
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, certainly. All our love and best wishes and blessings. Take care.
Question: Namaste Babaji. My question is, what sort of relationship should we have with the body? Like sometimes I look at myself, I’m in sports, I cannot do something that I used to be able to do fifteen, twenty years ago. So, similarly something will happen after ten years and another fifteen years. What sort of relationship should we have in the body without getting too attached?
Babaji Maharaj: You can consider you are the dweller in this body and this body is the area in which you are dweller. Like in Bhagavad Gita also, “Kshetra kshetrajna yoga,” He explains this, Sri Krishna. ‘Kshetra’ is the body, it is the area, and ‘kshetrajna’ is the dweller in this body. So, you can have this for a while until you completely go into an advanced sadhana, tell that. And you have obtained this beautiful chariot called human body, which has given you the consciousness of this world also. So, utilize this to live in this world, a life that you would have selected or made a choice for yourself. While doing so, don’t get too much attached to the world. Remember the impermanence of the universe all the time, including your own body. Before that there is an opportunity for you to settle in yourself, in consciousness. For that you do sadhana and then live your life. This way you go both ways, both you look after the body’s health also, look after yourself also. Our best wishes.
Question: Pranaam Babaji, my question is, what is the importance of brahmacharya for meditation technique like Jangama dhayanam? Because I have read many books of Swami Shivananda Saraswati. He specifically told about that without protecting brahmacharya, it is difficult to attain highest spiritual sadhana like the kundalini awakening and nirvikalpa samadhi. So, what is Your thought about this and what is the teaching of Swamiji’s teaching in this regard?
Babaji Maharaj: Swamiji particularly did not touch this topic, but He told, “Just go on meditating. On your own you will understand the limits of physical body, limits of this world. You will know where to stop, when to stop. The basic idea is any such thing of the world or the body or body urges must not drag your attention too much that you are unable to pay attention to the Self or to itself in the silence. Then your sadhana gets disturbed. As long as you are able to keep the mind into the sadhana, then slowly, slowly you will learn how much that you can indulge in this world in a limited way, when to stop. That much should be good enough, Swamiji used to feel. When you reach that height, when finally now you have to go for the nirvikalpa samadhi, by then you would have given up everything of the world automatically.
Question: So, when I saw this topic the other day in the e-mail, I thought to ask You because I’ve seen so many early videos of Swamiji and pictures of Him with His mother Parvatamma. And so, I thought to ask You if You had spoken with her and You pretty much answered that in Your first statement. But I just wanted to ask a little bit more about if You had spoken with her a few times or what was she like?
Babaji Maharaj: Before that, one more time, at least one year before that, when I used to come from Mysore to see Swamiji, once I was sitting in the veranda, I had already taken initiation and then that day others, my friend wanted to take an initiation, he went inside. So, I didn’t know what to do, I was just sitting in the veranda. So, Swamiji’s mother came to me, “Why are you sitting inside? You did not go inside to Swamiji.” I told “Ma, I have taken initiation.” She said, “No problem, still you can go and sit in front of Swamiji. Every time you sit in front of Swamiji, you will get rejuvenated in your mind,” she said. Like that. And I have seen her in action during functions. She used to be just like an ordinary devotee, never any speciality. And Swamiji also used to tell, she used to tell, “Just give me a little bit of space in Your ashram. That is enough for me.” And she would work as a volunteer, cleaning the vegetables, cutting the vegetables, carrying rice on a basket from one place to another place, just mingle with the volunteers, devotees, inspire them, look after all the work. She was very simple and affectionate. She showed affection, love to all devotees who would come, like that one. She was a wonderful lady and never showed any ego that her son has become a yogi. She was the same old lady. Wonderful.
Same Questioner: That’s beautiful. Thank You, Babaji.
Babaji Maharaj: Very good.
Question: Jai Babaji. I have a question, and I’ve been probably meditating with You now about a year now. I’ve gotten very far with it, but some of the pointers that I’d like maybe more help with, for example, when a narration starts in my mind, I find that if I can slow down the words, eventually they lose their meaning and I let that one go. Other things that might happen, well, I might fade out for a second and then I come back and I have to take a deep breath and straighten back up, things like that. I’m really intent on letting this all relax so that I can experience samadhi. And I guess I want more pointers.
Babaji Maharaj: This is a good way that you are dealing with. Slowly just watching those thoughts is the same of what you are talking, that you reduce your indulgence or getting engaged with those thoughts or things coming. Then it loses its meaning. When it loses its meaning, they will disappear. Like that you go on practicing. More and more than one day you will definitely achieve. Our best wishes are with you, my blessings.
Same Questioner: There’s one more thing that I’m having more trouble with, being a musician, is a melody starts in my mind and it just stays. That’s the hardest thing I’m having.
Babaji Maharaj: Yeah, that’s because long practice as a musician, this would be there. Here also, without trying to analyze or feeling bad why it is there, just remain focused on that sound effect, then it will also go away, disappear. As long as you don’t get engaged or analyze, then it will go.
End of Session
