0:00 Intro
0:06 Viveka Choodamani – Chapter 13 – The impermanence of the physical body, verses 72 & 73
1:34 How in the first place did the misidentification of consciousness identifying as the body and mind happen?
3:15 Do we also need to detach ourselves from people in our lives in order to achieve peace?
5:13 Viveka Choodamani – Chapter 13 – The impermanence of the physical body, verses 74 & 75
6:30 What is the connection between jeevatma, mind and consciousness?
8:42 Are the brain’s reflections just past imprints of the mind or are they fresh imaginations? How do we get out of this delusion?
12:30 Through meditation can we change our destiny?
16:18 Viveka Choodamani – Chapter 14 – Rejecting the impermanent, verses 76 & 77
17:51 How can we keep the senses engaged in the world and at the same time keep them withdrawn?
23:01 If we have the mind under our control, the brain can be the best friend otherwise it can be the worst enemy
31:20 How does learning to control and withdraw our senses to live a better life in this dangerous world of ill-minded people?
38:35 Outro

Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.222
Viveka  Choodamani – Impermanence of the Physical Body
You tube Link: https://youtu.be/JnHyQx5UIpM  
Recorded: 10 April 2025

Start of Session
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Facilitator:

Today we will be starting with chapter 13, ‘The impermanence of the physical body’, verse 72 and 73.

   The thing which the learned speak of as the physical body is made up of meat, bones, blood, skin, and so on, with various combinations of these forming legs, hands, shoulders, back, stomach, thighs and head.  It is the root cause of the delusional attachment of ‘I’ and ‘Mine.’  The realized teacher tells the student, “You discriminate whether this is true or not.  Do you think that you need to know your Self and overcome all unhappiness by achieving permanent happiness or not?” 

Babaji Maharaj’s Comment in the book:

   This is the basic problem – that a misidentification has happened for the body as “I” and attachment to this body has made further attachments of “mine” – thus, the starting of a misadventurous journey of imagination has happened, involving one’s consciousness into cravings and clinging-on habits to impermanent things.  This put one into the miserable conditions of birth and death, illness, stress, sorrows, depression, fear and so on. 

Start of Questions and Answers
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Question:   How in the first place did this misidentification, i.e. consciousness identifying itself as the body and mind happen when consciousness is said to be all knowing and supreme intelligence?

Babaji Maharaj:   Though there is no conclusive answer as to when this happened.  Like often I have given the example of if you have had a sound sleep and morning when you get up, you are afresh.  So, your mind is likely to be quiet and pleasant.  But as the time passes, the mind starts imagining.  When it imagines, in the beginning it imagines all the pleasant things.  Nobody wants unpleasantness.  But unknown to it, the mind starts imagining both good and bad, happiness and unhappiness.  So, that is how it starts thinking.  Thus, it gets applied so strongly on the brain, due to which the consciousness has shifted its effects on the physical body, giving you yourself as the consciousness of your existence as the physical body.  So, the very idea of practicing meditation is so that we give up this idea and achieve the silence of the mind, so that the consciousness will shift back to itself instead of the physical body.  This is how it has happened. 

Question:   Babaji, our family and friends, the people we love clearly are also attachments and impermanent things in our life.  Do we also need to detach ourselves from the people in our lives in order to achieve peace?

Babaji Maharaj:   I would not say a detachment means you have to turn your face from your loved ones, your kith and kin, your parents or siblings or whoever it is, friends.  You can love them.  You understand them.  But you need to be alert that these are impermanent things.  It is not going to be there at all times.  That’s what spirituality says.  The entire universe is impermanent including your own physical body.  When a certain thing is impermanent, how can it give a permanent happiness, or permanent satisfaction, contentment, etc.?  If this alertness and awareness is there, that is good enough.  

For this, you have to do sadhana of meditation so that the awareness is always shifted on to the real Self, and the understanding that the entire universe including our physical body and whomever that we think that are our own all are impermanent.  See, if we look back, so many people who belonged to us, probably grandfathers and forefathers and others and people elder, so many people who would have left this world, who would have passed away, they were all who would have had been dearer to us.  But they have gone now.  So, we have to understand it was all impermanent.  So that is how we need to have the awareness and understanding through the sadhana. 

Verse 74 and 75:

   The body is the first thing that deludes one.  It is composed of five gross elements of ether, air, fire, water and earth.  The five subtle elements of sound, sight, touch, taste and smell.  All these combine becoming object of the senses and appear to contribute to the happiness of the experiencer, the imagined individual soul – jeevatma.  Those misled ones, tied to the object of the world by strong cord of attachment – so hard to break – remain subject to birth and death.  Again and again, they are born and die; that inescapable law. 

Babaji Maharaj’s Comment in the book:

   This mind consciously experiences all urges, cravings, happiness and unhappiness that happens through the senses.  By getting involved through the brain’s reflection, mind consciously experiences a thought process and visual effect.  Thus, it is the body that creates the first illusion – making one thing of oneself as the body. 

Question:   Babaji mentioned that the imagined individual soul is jeevatma, which is the mind and the mind is also consciousness.  Can Babaji please elaborate further on the interconnectedness of these three entities?

Babaji Maharaj:   In fact, jeevatma, mind and consciousness, they all are same, same entity with different names at different times.  Our own individual imagined self, I said, that which we have imagined as myself, so that first has happened.  The micro-speck consciousness has come out of the Ultimate Truth, that is Supreme Being.  That is what is known as jeevatma, which I have time and often called as ‘individual imagined self’.  It is the same mind now when it is imagining; when thoughts and visions are there, that is known as mind.  And when this mind becomes quiet through the practice of meditation, then it regains the form of pure consciousness. 

So thus, all the three are same.  They are not different.  Just like you always tell that “My mind wants to go there”, “My mind wants to do this” and “I want to go there.”  So, you and your mind are not different.  When you are thinking, you call it as the mind.  When you are quiet, the nearest terminology is the pure consciousness.  So thus, all the three are same.  Simply, in different stages, we call. Just like it is the same woman; for the child she is a mother, for the husband she is a wife, for the father she is a daughter.  But it is the same woman, like that.  Here also, it is the same entity which assumes different names because of its functions. 

Question:   By getting involved in the brain’s reflections, the mind consciously experience thought processes and visual effects.  The imprints that the mind takes are the karma which is the cause of birth and death.  Depending on the attitude that builds up in your mind, the world appears so to you.  Babaji, are the brain’s reflections just past imprints of the mind or are they fresh imaginations?  How do we get out of this delusion, Babaji?

Babaji Maharaj:   These impressions that are in the mind are coming since time immemorial.  So many lives would have gone by.  Nobody knows when it really started.  So thus, this is the most difficult and very inconclusive answer.  Somewhere it started, some time immemorial.  But now it is continuing.  What happens in every life, like in this life – with the brain’s reflections, mind is in touch with the world.  Brain is in touch with the universe through the nervous system.  It receives a message and it passes on the order.  In that process, it reflects as the visual effect or a thought process.  Watching that the mind catches and registers in itself and thinks it as a reality.  Thus, it absorbs an imprint.  This is what sits in the subconscious state.  So, this becomes the pattern of the mind, an attitude of the mind.  We also call it as the acquired habits of the mind. 

Now, when death happens to the physical body, it is the brain which dies.  But the mind is eternal.  Mind simply gets detached from the brain’s reflections because the brain is dead.  But mind is containing all the impressions.  Based on that, it spins and assumes its next birth.  So, that is how it is said if the mind is very violent with a greed, anger and all such things, it can be belittling itself in the next birth, it can go down,  or if it is non-violent, if there is more peace, more spiritual attitude, then it can be elevating itself into a better birth towards the Divine.  Like being born to pious parents and to such atmosphere at home.  And if one’s own nature also needs to be there that we have to have the inclination of spirituality, Divinity about the Ultimate Truth, about our own secret of birth and death, all these things, it requires a lot of wisdom application.  This is possible if we have done good karmas in the previous lives and if we have absorbed such things. 

So, finally, to achieve total liberation from this birth and death delusions, one needs to do meditation and tapas.  This is done so that the mind’s total silence is achieved.  It must give up all imaginations; even the good and bad of this world must be given up.  When it becomes totally silent, then it goes back to its origin, the Divinity.  Just like the droplet of the ocean going back to the ocean, this mind called the jeevatma merges with the Self which is also known as the Paramatma, the Supreme Being.  So, that is how it has to happen. 

Question:   When you imagine strongly a desire or a judgment in your mind, either positively or negatively, that becomes law.  This law is what is recognized as destiny, which you shape by your mental resolution.  Meditation is to clear all these imprints.  Babaji, could You please elaborate further on this statement?  Does this mean that through meditation we can change our destiny?

Babaji Maharaj:   Often in my talks also I have told, if you are more positive in your mind, you can be shaping a better positive destiny for yourself.  ‘Destiny’ means a future.  If you are negative in your mind, in your thinking, if your attitude, then you can be shaping a negative destiny for yourself.  The mind’s thinking can be so strong.  You see, if you become obsessed with a particular thought and keep thinking that one and then that picturizes and you get absorbed into that picture, that picture starts appearing as if it is a reality.  So, this all depends on the mind’s obsession.  So, that is why satsangam is taught always so that we can keep our minds tuned into good things and then towards Divinity to the Ultimate Truth.  Finally, achieving the silence of the mind is very important.  That is when we can liberate ourselves from these effects of the destiny. 

So, whatever we think, we acquire it as our karma.  That is how we undergo to see such changes in our life, in our future rebirths that happen.  That is why we need to be more careful in our thinking habits, in our mind.  We have to take care.  Always, another important point, I have told sometimes in my talks, the real meaning of religion what we need to understand is; various exercises are prescribed so that you can take care of your physical health and using the physical body, take care of the health of the mind.  If the health needs to be intact of the mind, it needs to be thinking of the higher wisdom, “What is the Ultimate Truth?  How to get rid of this birth and death?  Once we are born, death is inevitable.  Everybody has to die.  All physical bodies have to disappear.  But who is it that is dying?”  Like that, we used to think as children, as a small child also, I used to wonder. 

Like Adi Shankara talking of “Punarapi jananam, punarapi maranam.”  “Again and again you are born; again and again you die; again and again you have to live in the womb of a mother.  O, this world is like a crocodile.”  That’s what Adi Shankara tells.  “So, please help me, O Lord, to escape this bondage so that I can get liberated and know my real Self.  Knowing the real Self should be the purpose of life.  So, that is why it is recommended that we try to get rid of the mind’s imaginations totally.  If at all there has to be imagination as Vasistha tells in Yoga Vasistha, “Try to think of the Aatman.  Think that you are the soul.  Try to think about the Divinity, Ultimate Truth if at all you have to think, until you don’t achieve total silence of the mind.”  So, this is the recommended goal. 

Chapter 14 – ‘Rejecting the Impermanent’
Verses 76 and 77:

   Any one of any one of these five senses is enough to cause death, as it does to the moth, deer, elephant, fish and bee – what then to speak of humans who have all these five in full?  Sense objects are more fearful than the poison of the cobra, which is fatal only when taken – but these, on mere sight can cause death. 

Babaji Maharaj’s comment in the book:

   A human gets involved into the illusionary world, which after indulgence, only increases the thirst for more to satisfy the same.  If we have our mind under our control, the brain can be the best friend to live in this world.  Otherwise, the brain can be the worst enemy, making our lives miserable in the world with cravings through the senses.  Only because of the brain, even after we eat and fulfill our hunger, the mind is active with more desires.  At least with animals, they have one hunger to fulfill, and after you feed them, they are satisfied and retire. 

Question:   Babaji, the senses are compared as being more dangerous than the poison of a cobra.  So, the Guru warns to be careful about the senses and they need to be kept withdrawn.  However, only through the senses we are able to transact and operate in this world.  Babaji, how do we manage the senses that need to be engaged in this world and at the same time keep them withdrawn? 

Babaji Maharaj:   We need the sensory organs to live in the world, but we need to have control over the mind.  Through that only we will be able to keep all these sensory organs, not to lose control over them.  Like, for example, anything in this world, what we need to understand is the limitations of the world.  We should know where we have to stop.  If we fail to stop, then it will be disastrous and dangerous also, that’s what happens.  So, this thing, we need to be very careful when choosing.  We should try to learn and live for our needs.  Like, we need some food to sustain the physical body, then only we are able to communicate with each other.  Even a yogi needs some food to sustain the physical body.  Only then I can keep the physical body through which I can communicate to you all.  I can teach you all.  So, I can answer your question.  If this body goes, then I cannot communicate through this body.  But, however, we need to take care of the health.  We should not lose control over the senses. 

In olden days, those great Masters were very blunt.  They used to talk of the satsanga, “Always keep away yourself from the wrong companies of the world.”  That is very important.  Only that much necessary; if for your livelihood, you just be there.  But do not get influenced by the wrong companies.  Satsanga is the important thing.  To be in the company of the noble, saintly people who talk about the Divine, who talk about the satsangas, mind’s purification and detachment from the world, they are the right people with whose company we need.  Just like we organize retreats also.  The retreat’s very idea is to give a satsanga to all the people to retreat from the mundane activities of the world and live in such a place where all the time we try to remember the Ultimate Truth, Divine, the Divine Guru and all these things.  While doing so, we try to take care of the physical body by giving the food also. 

But if we lose control over the senses, if we go into…  I have given the example of ice cream.  You like an ice cream, you can have one scoop, no problem.  But if you go on eating, if you are unable to stop the ice cream at all, the same ice cream which you thought was giving you happiness will start giving you unhappiness and illness also.  In the same way this entire world is like that.  You require money.  You require money for your livelihood.  You need that.  But if you become greedy and you don’t even want to sleep, you want to be earning money all the time, earning money, earning money and you don’t even have time to sit and eat two pieces of bread also, what is the use of such money, which can give you only greed and illness eventually and then we will leave everything behind and die.  That’s what happens. 

So, we have to be helpful to others.  That’s why Swamiji always said, “If you have twelve bananas, you eat four bananas.  How much you are going to eat?  At least the other eight bananas you distribute to others so that everybody can have.”  So, like that if we live in the company of noble, we will always be able to behave in a noble way.  If we go to the wrong company like alcoholists or drug addicts, they will make you also habitual to such wrong habits which is so harmful for your physical health, mental health and all such wrong things happen.  So, you are in the good company, then you will get to hear good things like participating in all spiritual activities of discussions about the Guru’s teachings and homa karmas and also pujas, bhajan singing, meditations, all such things if you participate, that is the real satsanga that can happen.  Thus, you can take care of yourself not to fall prey for the wrong things of the world and the sensory organs can be under control. 

Question:   Babaji said “If we have our mind under control, the brain can be the best friend in the world, otherwise the brain can be the worst enemy.”  Can Babaji please elaborate further on this. 

Babaji Maharaj:   See, brain is a biological organ; such an amazing, wonderful organ. A lot of scientific research have been done on the brain; they say we might be utilizing only a small percentage of the brain and its capacity.  Now, mind and brain’s peculiar relationship – apart from the blood and oxygen required for the brain to be alive and active, mind’s application to the brain also is necessary. But here, then mind receives, gets to see the reflections of the brain as a thought process or a visual effect I have been telling on and off.  Watching that, the mind registers it in itself and firmly believes that to be the fundamental truth.  Instead, if we practice meditation, our wisdom application will be much better.  Instead of brain simply using us, means whatever it reflects, it can fool us.  Instead, if we apply the brain to live in the world, apply our wisdom to know what is truth, what is not truth. 

Like discrimination, like Viveka Choodamani, complete book is about this only, what Adi Shankara talks, discrimination of what is real, what is unreal, what is permanent, what is impermanent, what can give us happiness.  Like, as a child, I used to think, if there is happiness, it must be there all that twenty-four hours and twelve months.  Why the fluctuation is there?  Sometimes there is excitement and so much happiness, sometimes an unknown fear, “What will happen next?”  Like, “Why is this happening?  Is there something wrong in me or something wrong in the world?”  Like that, I used to think, “If it is there, it must be there at all times.  If we are the Aatman, why is that I am not aware of that one?  We must be aware of what we are actually.  Just now, we are aware that we are a physical body.  We must be aware of that Aatman as we.  What makes us not to have this?”  So, this led us towards spirituality. 

A spiritual exercise like meditation, and all these things, enables your mind to become more sharp.  And when such a sharpened mind, well controlled, concentrated mind applies the brain, then it can utilize the services of the brain very well.  Instead of brain making you a victim, you won’t become a victim of the brain’s reflections.  You will verify the fact, you will not be prejudicial, you will not simply get carried away emotionally, whatever the brain says.  That’s why Vasistha talking in Yoga Vasistha often mentions this, “A foe can appear as a friend, and a friend can appear as a foe to the mind.”  We won’t know who is the real.  We might simply get carried away emotionally.  We don’t understand.  Often in the society we get to see, children becoming stubborn.  They demand, “We want to go like this only,” and parents want to advise something else, but children get carried away emotionally, and they become stubborn.  They are unable to apply wisdom also. 

So, these things are very necessary – application of wisdom.  So, that is why I have told, “Brain can be a very good servant, but a bad master.”  If you allow the brain to overtake you, if you get carried away emotionally by the brain’s reflections, then you will become a victim of the brain.  And you may not understand the right things in this world.  You may commit mistakes.  You may not be able to be a matured human being at all.  You may become prejudicial.  All these things can be avoided only if you are spiritual, if you undertake spiritual exercises regularly.  That is why our Guru Swamiji insisted; every day one hour of meditation must be undertaken.  Don’t give up that one for a single day.  Don’t become lazy and try to postpone.  Don’t be leisurely.  No, you must become restless if you are unable to sit for meditation.  You must sit for meditation, and that must become your habit. 

Like that, if you do that one, then you will be purified.  You will have your mind’s consciousness under your control, then you will be able to apply the brain in this world and use it, understand.  That is how great Self-Realized Masters like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Adi Shankaracharya, Ramana Maharishi, and so on, so many who came, they all could apply the proper wisdom and understand the truth of one’s own existence and impermanence of this world.  So, that is how it happened.  See, applying the wisdom, Ramana Maharishi thought.  He sat quietly and He laid down himself, and closing the eyes, controlled the breath and thought, “Now I am dead.  That means this body is dead.  My relatives will take this body and they will cremate this.  But then what will happen to me?”  He keenly observed from where that consciousness of existence is coming.  Then He came to the conclusion, “This ‘I’ will be eternal.  This will not die.  Only the physical body will die.”  So, thus, He went and did several years of tapas and became such a great Self-Realized Master and gave the theory of “Who am I?”  

Everybody must try to know who we are.  Swamiji also, that’s why He said “Meditate and know yourself.”  Knowing the Self is so important – purpose.  Suddenly, simply if we read “Meditate and know yourself,” people may not take seriously at all.  They may not sit down and think, “What is this knowing ourselves?”  We become aware of ourselves at all times.  I have told – here, one important point – amongst the millions of thoughts, there is one thing which is a reality and not an imagined thought.  All thoughts are imagined thoughts.  They are impermanent.  They will disappear.  But this one thing, which is the consciousness of existence, means you always have the feeling, “I exist.  I am here.”  But just now you may not know what is that ‘I,’ where is it located.  For this, you have to meditate so that the mind can give up all thoughts and visions.  It becomes silenced.  Then its attention turns to itself. 

In a fish market in the hall, say Babaji is talking.  If all the participants are gossiping, gossiping, gossiping, nobody will be able to listen to me at all.  Then I have to shout, “Silence, silence!  Order, order!  All of you keep silent.  If you are all silent, then pay attention to what I have to convey, what I have to teach you all.  Then you will be able to know what I am teaching.”  In the same way just now, mind has become a chatterbox.  It is busy gossiping with itself with millions of thoughts and visions.  We have to stop that mind, “Order, order!” tell the mind, “Silence!”  Then just by watching and meditating, you can achieve this.  Then its attention automatically turns to itself.  You will know who you are.  So, that is how we have to go through this. 

Question:   Is it not true that humans are more afraid of other humans than anybody else in this world?  If you have to go out in the dark alone, it is not the ghost that you have to be afraid of, it is the ill-minded people that you have to be more careful of.  Babaji, how does learning to control and withdraw our senses help us to live a better life in this dangerous world of ill-minded people?  It seems that we need to be more in touch with our senses to deal with living in this world.  Can Babaji please explain further on this? 

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, living in this world is like, for the tongue, living in the midst of thirty-two wicked teeth.  It cannot run away anywhere.  It has to live with the teeth.  It has to keep moving under the teeth, in the midst of the teeth.  A little bit careless if the tongue becomes, the teeth are ready to bite it.  It gives a painful wound to the tongue.  That’s what happens.  This world is also like that.  We cannot run away.  We have to live in the world.  Even if you go to the ashram also, we have to live in the society.  There might be good people, bad people, right people, wrong people, all sorts of people; humans are always like that.  But if we keep ourselves strongly under our own control, by practicing spiritual sadhana of meditation and other things like bhajan, bhakti marga, puja, homas etcetera, etcetera, if we all practice, then we can keep ourselves strong not to become victim of the bad people’s company. 

Sometimes we will have to be in the midst of bad people.  We may have to listen to them also.  It can be quite painful, but we need to exercise the patience that we don’t get influenced by them inside of our mind.  That is such an important thing in this world.  Like you go to a workplace.  You are working.  You need to earn your livelihood.  You cannot run away always.  Anywhere you go, you will find good and bad people.  Atmosphere can have –today what we call it, common word as ‘politics’ will always be there.  Humans are selfish and narrow-minded.  This world is like that.  Everybody behaves according to their selfishness.  This is what happens.  So, we have to be very careful not to become victims.  This is possible only when we practice meditation and satsanga; keep our senses strongly under our control; keep our mind under control, not to become a victim.  Our mind should not get carried away at all for whatever.  We just do our duty, whether we are in the workplace or anywhere.  Just mind our business. 

Like for fifty years we have been living in this Ashram.  I have just minded to do my business, means worshiping Swamiji, listening to my Guru‘s words, practicing meditation quietly; unknown to the world, unseen by the world, for twenty years I practiced meditation.  I had to be mingling with people also.  I had to look after, I had to serve, I had to take care, I had to listen to commands, Master’s command, seniors’ demands, other people – so many things were there.  But in spite of all that, I kept myself in the satsanga of the Self.  Meditating all the time, keeping the mind under control, not to become a victim of any such influences.  Whatever work I had to do of the ashram, I went on doing that one.  And I always considered that as a service to my Master.  In this world when you live, whatever you do, consider that as a service to the Master, service to the Divinity.  Try to remember Divine in the midst of busy work also. 

How much you can remember in the mind is more important.  That can keep your mind strong and purified.  For that, every day if you practice one hour, if you can keep the mind quiet, the day you achieve that one, then you can achieve so much in this world.  You can be the most matured personality.  Nobody can defeat you mentally.  Nobody can influence you.  Nobody can trouble you mentally at all, come what may be.  The whole day they can be talking nonsense, nonsense, nonsense – you will not be influenced.  Your mind will not be affected.  Because at all times when the other person is talking nonsense, in your mind, you talk to the Guru.  You talk about the Divinity.  You remember the Divine, until you are able to keep quiet totally.  As Vasistha says, “Until you are unable to keep quiet totally, if at all some vichaara, some thought has to come, think about the aatman, think about the Divinity, that Ultimate Truth, think about the Divine Guru and His teachings.” 

You see, week after week, every fortnight and other days also we conduct Zoom, we conduct question and answers, such important topics are selected, like today.  This may appear very odd for some people, but this is such an important fact.  It is the truth of this world, it is impermanent.  Living in this world is not prohibited.  You don’t have to run to caves and forests.  Live in your home, be a householder, do your business, earn your livelihood.  But in the midst, don’t become arrogant.  Don’t become egoistic.  Don’t be selfish and narrow-minded.  Be noble.  But be clever also.  Careful also.  Don’t be foolish also.  Don’t be unnecessarily giving rise to the six enemies of human mind, greed, anger, all these things.  For wrong things do not go into unnecessary stubbornness.  Learn to understand what is practical, what is not practical.  Like that, if you practice the sadhana, your life can be very successful.  Whatever the world is, it should not matter for you.  You don’t have to notice.  You just notice the Divinity that is within you.  You do not notice, you can remain unaffected.  If you notice, you will be bothered.  This point, you have to remember!

End of Questions and Answers

Babaji Maharaj now concludes:

   So, Shyamala, this is wonderful.  Now, we have been able to discuss a lot of things.  Thank you for helping me to hold this session by asking questions and you did a very good job today.  And all my love and blessings to all of you participants.  I will just go to the gallery one moment to say bye-bye to everyone. 

It is time to disappear and say bye-bye to you all.    In our next session, we will do more meditation and we will discuss more about these truths.  All the best to all of you.  Practice meditation every day.  It should become a daily habit.  You must become restless if you do not practice for one hour; it is such an important thing for you.  Just like if you don’t eat food, you will be restless, you will be hungry.  If you don’t do meditation, you should be hungry and you should be restless.  You should feel as if Babaji is coming with a stick to beat you.  Practice meditation, practice meditation, practice meditation!   

End of Session