SHIVA RUDRA BALAYOGI

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Thus Spake Babaji – online Q&A, No.14

Recorded on 25 October 2020 with US participants

0:00 Babaji’s introduction
4:07 The awareness of the Self.
10:30 Being vigilant with your meditation practice
13:37 Having faith in your practice
15:35 Seeing images in meditation
17:04 The meaning of birth and death
20:06 Manifestations in Tapas
25:45 Hearing sounds in meditation
28:06 Single -pointed focus in meditation
29:59 The third eye
31:36 Is meditation a masculine or feminine activity?
32:54 Does the pure consciousness of existence think?
36:45 Does feeling or thought come first?
39:20 Is it possible to meditate with eyes open?
40:17 Importance of keeping eyeballs still in meditation
41:36 In brief moments of peace in meditation are we getting a glimpse of pure consciousness?
45:42 Tests in meditation
47:23 The meaning behind the celebration of ten days of Vijayadashami
51:15 Isn’t asking questions here also a part of the thoughts arising?
52:15 Focusing on the Guru in meditation
58:16 Why does the Mother goddess present herself in complex and fierce forms?
1:01:14 Body bending down even when mind is alert in meditation
1:03:28 How long should we meditate?
1:04:40 How to see people beyond the male or female form

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 14
Recorded: 25 October 2020 with US participants

Start of short discourse

   Babaji Maharaj Commences:

   All of you are there. Wonderful to see. Yesterday also, I was talking in my session to other groups that today is the tenth day of nine auspicious days dedicated to Goddess Mother. So Indians all over the world would celebrate Vijayadashami. I have given the concept of spirituality about the thoughts increasing, like if you get irritated, if you lose temper, if you lose patience, if you try to fight and analyse, judge with the thought, you will simply help the thoughts to get increased, more and more. Thought after thought, thought after thought. So you have to simply watch. Like in the days, in these stories generally, briefly – the first few days Mother Goddess tries to kill the demon Mahishasura, the buffalo-headed one. The more she kills, all the blood that falls on the ground, they all become more demons, and more, more demons. This is the concept of same thoughts. Finally, and the story says Mother Goddess brought out her tongue as Jwalamukhi, and took all the blood on her tongue and didn’t allow them to fall on the ground. That means you didn’t allow them to analyse or make any judgment; you kept quiet and all the thoughts disappear, vanish. The Pure Consciousness is there. So, that is what the concept. Today is the Vijayadashami, the tenth victorious day, that means. So all my love and blessings. Our greetings to all of you. May our beloved Guru Swamiji, Goddess Mother bless you all for peace, prosperity, success in your sadhana that you would achieve peace of mind, quietening the mind totally to regain the Pure Consciousness form. So without wasting let’s go for a thirty-minutes of meditation. Afterwards we will have question and answer session. I’ll answer your questions.

   All of you sitting in any comfortable posture, keep your back and neck straight and gently close your eyes, and gently keep watching in between eyebrows by focusing the attention of your mind and sight.

   Also, before that one more time, I would like that you all keep your videos on so that I can see you. So this is a Master and students’ classroom. So follow discipline please.

   Well, after closing the eyes you’ll be watching by concentrating your mind and sight in between eyebrows. And do not repeat any mantra or name, no need. And do not imagine; don’t react to any thoughts or visions; nothing, whether it is good or bad. Don’t think what you have to watch, what you are watching. Just watch without bothering, and do not open your eyes for 30 minutes till I recite a prayer and will ask you to open the eyes. May you all be blessed.

Short post meditation discourse

   So, for the next one hour we’ll be taking your questions. Please be clear of what you want to know when you ask a question.

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Well Baba, I have a question.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, Agastya.

Same questioner: So, You said to realize the Self, the mind has to become completely still. And that happens in nirvikalpa samadhi, where the mind becomes totally silent. Even the concept of ‘I’ vanishes. So is that state a state of consciousness or is it beyond consciousness because there’s nowhere; there’s no duality; there’s no second person or object.

Babaji Maharaj:     Yeah, when the ‘I’ also disappears means any definition disappears. Nothing to do with even consciousness. All these collapse because all these were imagined words used as the nearest imagination to give a clue to the student and to make them understand or motivate, inspire and make them go for that. When actually you go there, that’s it. So, all, everything finishes. It’s beyond. So, every time we use the word ‘beyond’, means the ‘beyond’ also is beyond type. You are there, and you are not there. You even lose that awareness that you are there also. Means this is not the unconscious state. Unconscious, in the beginning we tell, when the brain becomes unconscious of this world, and due to that the mind also becomes unconscious temporarily, getting detached from the brain’s reflections. But here you have crossed, you have transcended, gone beyond everything so that’s how it is.

Same questioner:   So, You know Baba, many teachers have talked about different states of consciousness and You talk about the importance of knowing the Self and so all fields of consciousness then are outside of the Self or within the Self.

Babaji Maharaj:   If even within the Self, it is all imaginations, outside the consciousness, or they are all simply imagined words. So to imagine you can talk any number of stages. Sometimes teachers may use it to motivate or make students interesting. So whereas in our lineage what I learned from Swamiji and my own experience, we directly open the chairman’s office, invite you to become the chairman directly.

Same questioner:   So Baba is it possible, wherever there’s consciousness, does there have to be a knower, an ‘I’?

Babaji Maharaj:   Not necessary, unless you are bewildered for something else. If you are at peace, there is nothing that you have to know. If you don’t have peace – when you are searching peace, then you have to know that. By knowing means, by getting separated temporarily. As a duality only, knowing happens. When you are that there is no knowing, and the knowing is not necessary. When you come out of the chairman, you want to know that you are the chairman and you have to go and sit there. Once you sit there, you don’t have to know anything. You are the chairman.

Same questioner:   So, that was another question I had. After You have that experience of nirvikalpa samadhi, or the ‘I’ dissolving back into the Self, how does that affect consciousness when You come back to consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   A little minimum consciousness is kept in touch with the brain, because during tapas also, the body is given a little bit of nourishment of both oxygen and a little bit of food that it doesn’t fall down, it doesn’t give way. And this, if one has a mission, it is considered as an ordainment by the Ultimate Truth itself. So that such a person coming to be known as the jivanmukta, a liberated one while alive shall be able to create an awareness and teach others by giving clue and motivating them, inspiring them. But however, overall the consciousness remains silent, at peace. Like in other words if I have to tell – like even if I am talking anything, these imaginations do not reverberate in my mind and does not give any boasting or excitement that I am a realized soul. There is no such thing, no separation of a realized soul; there is nothing to boast or claim actually. So, it is quiet and at peace, the ever silent one. Even if I am talking any topic, different people may try to make judgment about me depending on their capabilities, but I am beyond judgment. I am beyond any judgment. I am quiet actually.

Same questioner:   So, Baba You have no concept of being a person or I?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, that doesn’t reverberate as a registration in the consciousness. It’s very funny – once I remember in the beginning days, I was traveling in Malaysia. The hosts brought me all different eatables, well decorated so beautifully. So, one person claimed, “My God, I would like to become a yogi, how beautifully You are treated.”  I said, “Don’t become if you are interested in food, because when you become a yogi, you would not be interested about these things at all.”

Same questioner:   One more question Baba. Something that’s not talked about much but it seems to be very important, and that’s about being vigilant with your meditation. I think You call it being serious. When you do the same thing every day, when you see the same thing every day, hear the same thing every day, you can become, you cannot pay a proper attention to it. It becomes commonplace and sometimes when you sit to meditate you can become kind of lazy. By that I mean your attention goes off on thoughts and you’re lazy about bringing it back to focus between the eyebrows and you can waste a lot of time in meditation if you don’t remember the teaching. Can You just comment on that? Because people could…I remember that lady You said that she completed tapas but she never obtained Self-realization, and I asked You what was she doing?

Babaji Maharaj:   She maintained that imagination that she wanted to get married to Swamiji.

Same questioner:   So that’s important.

Babaji Maharaj:   So, it’s very important that you are aware of the purpose. You are trying to do meditation. You understand the purpose. And also you be serious. That’s why I told, “I’m here. It is a bonus in this physical body. As a Master consider me as a commander. When I command, instructions.”  So, last week before that, Michael has sent a request “Babaji requests you to keep your videos open.”  I pulled him up. “Don’t request from my side. Convey either my order or instructions. I want them to keep their videos open. Let them understand I am serious, I mean business. They are my students when they are sitting there. It’s a classroom. They need to be disciplined.”  So if they can be serious like that – discipline, dedication, patience, and instruction. ‘Just watch’ means watch!  You are trying to do something else, you are not watching – you are not listening to command. That’s how Swamiji also once said, “Every day when I initiate people I instruct. If only people can consider it a command and just follow, they can obtain samadhi like this.” [clicks fingers] It doesn’t happen because people don’t listen. They are not serious; they are lazy. Unknown to them they might be lazy. From outside, they may not appear but within the mind also the things may become lazy. So that’s what is important. They must not be lazy. They must be aware, they must be enthusiastic, inspired, motivated. Every moment, they must be aware that that they are supposed to simply watch. Then you see, how dare, then no thought will dare to come, will appear. The thoughts are all there, you are lazy – you are allowing it to happen.

 Same questioner:  Okay, Thank You Baba.

13.39

Question:   Yeah, I don’t know who I am. Well after meditation, you know, not even meditation, all the time, I no longer think I am what I thought I was, and it’s like switching roles in a play and I think I’m only a thought form with awareness and I really have to trust the director. It’s very difficult.

Babaji Maharaj:   You follow. At least in the beginning, try to have that faith. Like I kept telling, when you went to school. If you had gone to school – in the primary or nursery stage, when the teacher said he wrote this is ‘A,’ this is ‘B’, you took it in good faith. You never questioned “why I should call this ‘A,’ how to trust you?”  You accepted. After some time, as you grew up you saw everybody using this as ‘A’ and ‘B’, that language and you learnt. So that’s what faith is. Faith is not a blind belief. I’m not asking you to totally trust because you have not known anything at all. Until you yourself experience the truth, you don’t have to believe me, but you need to have faith. If you don’t have faith, you won’t take my instruction seriously, command, then you will not do, you will become lazy. So that’s what is important. Have faith. Just now follow the instructions. This is what you see. Once your understanding capabilities increase, also you will be able to understand what I am trying to convey. And then as you experience the silence of the mind only then you will taste. The chocolate is in front of you. I am instructing you “Take it to the mouth, take it to the mouth,” and you are asking “how to trust you that it is sweet and it’s going to be nice?”  Take it to the mouth and you will understand.

Same questioner:   Okay, but Guruji, I keep on seeing – well I see this black spot all the time, and then I keep on seeing this elephant. Maybe, it’s the past life. I mean elephants are incredible beings, every face turns into an elephant.

Babaji Maharaj:   Never mind, first thing. This is the real science I am teaching. Never mind whether it is elephant or a tiger or a devil or an evil, anything; never mind. Just watch! It will disappear. God, don’t try to think whether it was previous life’s experience. Why do we need a previous life? It’s over. We need Self-Realization. What you know, you have to know what you are now. That’s important. S, give importance to that and just watch. It will be all right. Elephant is gone because elephant is not going to help you in any way. It will not give you peace. Even it appears in your meditation it will not give you peace, it will not give you samadhi, it will not give you the awareness of your real Self. Know this truth – so just ignore. It will be alright.

Same questioner:   It’s all very frightening. Alright, Thank You.

Question:   Hello Baba. Nice to see You.

Babaji Maharaj:   Nice, nice.

Same questioner: There is a question that keeps rising up in Indian literature for hundreds, thousands of years – the same question keeps coming up, and sometimes the answer is given as a blessing, sometimes the answer is given as a boon, sometimes the answer is just given. So, I’m going to ask You a very easy question. What is the meaning of birth and death; what is the truth of birth and death? This question always emerges in so many ways.

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, with a clue also it is the body which is born and it is the body which is going to die. This is what we all know, the world knows, you also know. Beyond that you don’t know anything else. Now the question is the third, ‘you.’  Where do you stand? Are you the body? Are you born with this body; are you born as body and are you going to die when the body dies? Are you going to become extinct or are you going to exist in some other form? This you will experience when you close the eyes when you try to stop all thoughts. You will be able, this I guarantee. One day if you follow my instruction, you can get rid of all thoughts and visions, all imaginations. The mind becomes clear. When the mind becomes clear it would have regained its original form of consciousness. But consciousness of your existence is there, will always be there. No matter you try in any way, you cannot remove that. You cannot make it disappear. So based on this the first clue comes that you must be something else other than this body – beyond this body. That means you are beyond the birth and death of this body. It is the body which is born, it is the body which dies. And this body is not you. You will not die because you were never born. You are already there. You were already there also. So this you will realize in meditations, samadhi when you experience your existence. Not as the body, not as Clifford, not as a man or a woman, or not as anything else, not a god or goddess or devata, anything – just as the Pure Consciousness, that which is addressed as the soul, the immortal Self. So this is the truth, nearest imagination I have told you. The rest you experience when you experience the samadhi.

Question:   Babaji Pranaam. Babaji, I have a question, actually just want Your explanation. In the process of Self-Realization, when You say that Shiva and Parvati came in front and they merged within. Is that also in the realm of consciousness, is that an imagination, is that something, that manifestation which is more than a vision so how does that play?

Babaji Maharaj:   I have used the word of ‘manifestation’ because imagination means, for people the criteria of that imagination may be of a very less megapixel potency of the resolution. When it is manifestation – in fact, I have tried to explain in three terminologies. Beginning is the mind has the capacity to be creative, means to imagine. Based on this only entire universe runs, everybody works, create, do this and that, everything. When you meditate, when you rise to a higher level of almost to the tapas, then when you see visions that is known as mental projection. Means the strength of that vision increases in potency you are feeling. Finally, when you are able to do tapas, a manifestation happens. Whatever your previous resolutions would have had been, based on that either a deity or a God or a Guru’s physical form. Its strength will be as physical as this universe that you are seeing just now in front of you. Means this universe is a manifested truth. Though it is imagination, it is only an illusion, finally. Means such a manifestation when really happens, it will make you to jump into it. Like sometimes, some journalists interviewing they have asked the question when we have told about our Guru’s experience of Jangama Sage appearing. They say “how are you sure that really a Jangama Sage or Lord Shiva appeared before your Guru?”  I have told, you see, it is true that nobody else saw that manifestation when Jangama Sage came in front of Satyaraju. Only Satyaraju saw – He was made to sit for tapas. But what the world saw was transformation in that young Satyaraju: from an ordinary weaver boy, He became a great yogi. Such a wonderful knowledge and wisdom came from within Him and His tejas also increased. So this is how it is made. Say suppose in front of me, many times people keep claiming I have seen lord Shiva, I have seen Vishnu’s form. I understand that it was only an imagination, imagined vision means its potency is very less. If it was a mental projection or a manifestation, that person would have got transformed into a spiritual truth, He would have gone for Self-Realization. If God appears in such a manifested way, you won’t need anything else of the world. Everything else collapses for you. All desires, all wanting, nothing can give you happiness – only that thing. So based on this only we call it manifestation. Finally, it merges. Like Swamiji used to tell, Shiva and Parvati merged in Him. At that time once I asked Him this question, “In some scriptures like Ramana Maharishi’s, others’ experiences, we have heard that this mind totally gets clear and merges with the Self then only the Self-Realization happens. But You are talking that Shiva Parvati entered your body.”  Swamiji said “Hey, you see if a droplet falls into the ocean and merges, also, is the same; or if a ocean flows on the droplet and engulfs it then also it is the same. The merger happens. That’s how it happened to Swamiji. He explained this. That’s what the manifestation means.

 Same questioner:  Babaji thank You for that. But does that mean that for everybody’s final experience…

Babaji Maharaj:   Not necessary for every Self-Realization. In a lineage it might happen. It would have had been my resolution also. Years ago when I met Swamiji fifty years ago, and when I heard about this story, unknown to me that resolution would have been sitting in my mind also, consciousness. So I had to undergo that experience, through that only. If you experience, Swamiji used to tell, “the Self is here but if you imagine going like this (Babaji gesticulating), you may have to experience going like that. So, if you have an imagination Shiva and Parvati have to come, you may have to go through that and then final Realization. The Guru as a torch-bearer will help you to merge with the Self.

Question:   Hello Baba. It is nice to see You. I have a question. Often what happens when I meditate and my mind is not focused, I suddenly, when I do get the mind to focus, I hear a tone that seems is the same frequency as the meditation bell, and it reminds me to focus, and all of a sudden it seems to really help me to focus. And I feel kind of a vibration around here (in-between eyebrows) and I wonder if You have a a feeling about that. It’s a like a singing bowl, is the tone that I hear, and it’s wonderful it seems like it may be a tool? I don’t know.

Babaji Maharaj:   Anything that helps you to remain focused or come back to focus is positive and welcome. It’s a different matter whether it was just a vision or just an imagination, or your own resolution, whatever it is. Finally to make you understand, the Self, you as the Self when you would have started journey from the Self in imagination and then lost control incarnation after incarnation, come a long way, you would have pressed a button also, the return journey. So, that is how it will make everybody to go back to Self. It’s a matter of time. Like, you see Babaji as a Guru. This also would have been your own resolution that a Guru like Baba come in your life and you become attached to the Guru; you listen to the instructions, command of the Guru. That’s how you become serious. You may not listen seriously to anybody else, but if I pull you up, you will listen seriously. So that is the plus point, like that. So if it happens, good, just focus but further don’t try to analyse and don’t get involved with that. Simply watch.

Same questioner:  Yes, Thank You. Thank You Baba. Namaste.

Question:   Baba, I have a question related to the ‘just focus.’  It occurred to me that, you know a lot of people think that meditation, your mind should be completely silent, and in fact that only happens in samadhi. What does happen in meditation is that our focus becomes completely one-pointed and doesn’t waver. Would You comment on that? You’ve talked about how when the mind doesn’t waver for one hour that’s considered real meditation.

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, first thing is to achieve total focus for one hour. So that itself is not a total samadhi. Total samadhi means once for all it should not jump back again, mind. So that is the samadhi. Till then you are likely to have achieved one hour of silence. For one hour, your focus is best. That may be a highest percentage, so very little disturbance might happen. But most of the time you are quiet and just watching. Finally, thoughts and visions might have happened also, but what matters in meditation is that you have remained silent. You have not tried to analyse; you have allowed those thoughts just to get evaporated. So that is the one-hour meditation, one hour silence, or one hour focus. That’s when the real meditation, but samadhi is something else. From clerk to you have become an officer, but becoming chairman is something else.

Same questioner:  Thank You Baba.

Question:   Hi Babaji. Thank You so much for these sessions. They are very helpful and informative. I had a couple of small questions. How do you know you’re looking through the third eye as opposed to the habit of looking with eyes closed through your eyes?

Babaji Maharaj:   I will answer this question. First thing, you need not know that you are looking through the third eye only. There is no third eye. Third eye is nothing but the mind. When the mind gets cleared of all its thoughts, when it regains the form of Pure Consciousness, some teachers have symbolically mentioned – when it has purified means, it is blossomed, it is like the third eye opening. That is the third eye because your two eyes, and the third eye is you, yourself. Means you have blossomed, you have become purified. S, that is what needs to happen. You just close the eyes, watch the front portion. And you don’t bother whether it is the third eye, whether it is in-between eyebrows, whether it is the front portion for a while. Because it is the eyeball which plays the tricks moving parallelly, doesn’t come easily in one direction. It can create confusion if you keep wondering, “am I looking through the third eye or not?”  Don’t bother that point. Just keep looking. So then slowly in due course of time both eyeballs come into one direction and you will be able to look through the third eye, that is your mind. Next question?

Same questioner:   Thank You. Is meditation more of a masculine activity or a feminine activity, or is there a way of thinking about – like someone who’s studied and done a lot of higher education is accustomed to concentrating and focusing their mind, but I’m wondering if people who haven’t had had say formal education and concentrating that way are at an advantage?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, what do you call the mind, feminine or masculine? Only the physical body is recognized as masculine, feminine, all these things. Mind is beyond, it is infinite. In the same way, meditation also you are using eyeballs. Both feminine, masculine, in their body have eyeballs. So, the eyeballs are eyeballs. It is neither feminine nor masculine. Only the body is recognized. So like that meditation also is beyond any such recognitions of feminine or masculine. Just anybody can meditate. So that means it is beyond all these things. You have to follow the instructions of the Master and just meditate.

Same questioner:  Okay, Thank You so much. Thank You.

Question:   Good morning. I read somewhere that the Guru is more important than God because the Guru gets you to God and helps you to God and follow the instructions of the masters. I am very happy to get this time with Baba on a weekly basis. So, from the questions that were asked previously, I brought this question into my mind. So you quiet the mind in the course of Self-Realization and you fuse with the Pure Consciousness of existence, and it made me wonder, does the Pure Consciousness of existence think?

Babaji Maharaj:   It’s not a thought. It is simply you will experience the consciousness of existence. Means you will always have that, just for a one word I use, a feeling but it’s not an imagination. You will have that feeling that you exist, but just now because your attention is on imaginations, on the physical body so you are unable to watch or recognize or feel where that consciousness of existence is arising. That’s what we are trying to help you to find out. When I ask just watch in between eyebrows, do not bother about thoughts or visions, don’t try to recognize. When all thoughts and visions disappear then you will experience enormous peace. That peace is Pure Consciousness, and that is also the consciousness of existence.

Same questioner:   So that doesn’t think, that Pure Consciousness of existence doesn’t think.

Babaji Maharaj:   No, no it doesn’t think. It simply exists in peace. Amba has a small comment on this point. I would like to invite Amba here.

Mata Ambaji:   Hi Diane.

Same questioner:   Hi, good morning.

Mata Ambaji:    Good morning, how are you? You asked a very good question because commonly people think that the consciousness though it’s the purest substance is experienced only by a Self-realized Master. You know the purest form of the consciousness can only be experienced by the one who has attained the nirvikalpa samadhi. But at the same time we all experience; we go very closer to it. We all experience the consciousness in its purest form when we go into the deep sleep, you know when you’re unconscious of you being as a body. When you when you wake up, suppose you have a very good sleep, you wake up in the morning and you feel that you had very good sleep, very good sleep. So who was it who experienced that? Were you thinking at the time when you had that sleep? No, you were not thinking, but at the same time you experienced that you had that sleep. So the thinking process and experiencing process are two different things. So the Pure Consciousness doesn’t have a thinking process. If it has a thinking process, it cannot be pure. If it has that means there is a duality. Clear?

Same questioner:  Thank You. Yeah.

Question:   So nice to see you Babaji. My question is about, because when You were saying “just look in the centre”, and as I was looking in the centre I could feel the awareness of existence but the moment a thought came, and I focused on the thought, then there was a separation. And so, I thought, “wow this is very subtle.”  So it is like the concentration is getting divided from the consciousness to the thought. My question is what is the place of feeling in all this? Does feeling come first or thought come first, and how do we go…I know the Scriptures talk about being bhavatita, like in the shloka that You recite afterwards, right? You are beyond the feeling, but that is once you are in that consciousness itself without any other awareness except existence. That I can understand, so what is the place of feeling? Does feeling come first or thought?

Babaji Maharaj:   Feeling comes because first the consciousness exists, ‘we are’. Before the consciousness, thought existing doesn’t happen because the consciousness was always there, but thought has come into existence which will disappear, but the consciousness will not disappear. So, that’s why the thought came afterwards and the consciousness feeling came first. It was always there. Coming first also doesn’t arise. It was always there.

Same questioner:   So, what is this bhavatita then?

Babaji Maharaj:   It’s this feeling, this thought. This thought generates emotions also. When there is just the consciousness, it is beyond emotions, bhava; it is at peace, settled, composed at peace. That’s what it means. So when thoughts arise it also creates emotions of good, bad, happiness, unhappiness, so many emotions there it generates. So again you go back to the consciousness is recognized as bhavatita. You go back because consciousness itself is bhavatita. That existence, there is no bhava in that.

Same questioner:   So is it possible to meditate with eyes open and just look straight at one point?

Babaji Maharaj:   Ah, only for few moments you can try to practice the focus, but for long time meditation it is recommended to keep the eyes closed. One thing what my Guru used to tell, already there is an illusion within your mind. It has absorbed so many imprints. So, you open the eyes, your eyeballs get attracted to the drishya that is around, and it can generate further imagination, further imagination. So, it is necessary to keep the eyes closed. So any foreign particles can trouble the eyes if it is kept open for long time. Because you have to focus, means steadily, standstill has to happen. So it is recommended to keep the eyes closed.

Same questioner:   And so when we are sitting in with closed eyes it is important to make sure that your eyeballs are not moving?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, yes, steady.

Same questioner:   The process is also to still the eyeballs?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, that is important. If you steadily watch onto one point then the eyeballs stop; it won’t keep moving.

Same questioner:   Okay. But the first benefit of doing that is that you sharpen your concentration?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.

Same questioner:   Skill?

Babaji Maharaj:    Exactly. Stillness.

Same questioner:   And at some point, you have to go beyond concentration and lose yourself?

Babaji Maharaj:   And that is when all thoughts will start getting evaporated, they will all vanish. Then that separation closes. First you and you are watching a thought, so these two, both the things vanish. It’s like the seer and the seen, both vanish.

Same questioner:   Seer and seen both vanish, so only the seeing remains?

Babaji Maharaj:   No, seen also disappears. When there is nobody to see it where is the ‘seen’? You are talking of the Self disappearing, so that’s what I explained.

Same questioner:   Thank You. Thank You.

Question:   When I’m watching and there’s peace it feels like I’m just being. I would just say I call it just being. And I guess would that be termed that I’m closer to Pure Consciousness, I’m touching and tasting Pure Consciousness? I guess the question is, you know, I understand it’s my habits that I have that are keeping me from that, and I need to focus more. So I just want to clarify – are we actually in the chairman’s room when we’re doing that? Are we actually tasting it and touching it? And then the next question is – when the body dies, if we have come to some understanding that fifty percent that we have some consciousness of existence, does that move on, does that carry on, or do you have to go through samadhi and you have to a hundred percent know that?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, it is like as we are talking of the chairman, you go closer to the office sometimes and then come back losing patience. Then again you go, go to the door, and you knock. Just before the doors get opened, you come back. You lose patience and come back. So that is what happens sometimes what you were explaining in the beginning. But you are going closer, you are going closer. So when you go closer you need more patience, more patience. That patience is tested when as you go closer. Just like I have told, when you are in a small primary class, middle class, high school, the strength of examination might be less. As you go to the university, the research, or specialization, super specializations, then the strength of the examination, the question that is asked also becomes very tough. In the same way, you come closer to the door. As you come closer, the test for your patience increases. You are able to remain at patience, so then that is increased. Like you are able to lift 50 kgs, then you are put to 100 kgs. When you lift 100 kgs, you are put to 150. So that’s what you have to practice; a little more patience. That will always be there.

   And now when death happens. So whatever you have achieved in this life that will be carried on as a habit by the mind, by the consciousness. Even if it is only fifty percent, it is in the form of mind. That will be carried on, and from childhood itself you would get into such an inclination, such thoughts, such doubts; there is something wrong in this world. Like I used to think, “all the time happiness, or am I born, am I going to die, become extinct?”  This type of thought starts bothering you from childhood itself. So, you won’t accept the world simply as it is, as a reality. So this inclination will be there, and you will be able to do sadhana more vigorously, perhaps a great tapas and achieve. So you just carry on till the last breath of life, everybody, carry on with your meditation. It is worth it. It will be there like a term deposit. It will go with you and it will make you to do more vigorously from childhood itself. You will be blessed. Again such good parents as you are blessed in this life also, such circumstances, surroundings, everything will be available. God helps you.

Same questioner:   So can I just ask for a little bit more clarification on the test? So, I’m watching and thoughts bubble up and you know, it takes my attention, I bring it back. Is the test that I just, with more earnestness come back to watching every time the thought bubbles up and pulls my aware awareness away? Is that the patience You’re talking about?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, yes. That’s where you need more patience. So it will drag you back, it will drag you back. That’s where you need more patience to remain there. So that patience comes, that patience is made to lose by a peculiar type of ego. It is very difficult to make out that ego. By the grace of the Master and God that comes, with the patience. When you are ready to give up everything, any humiliation, every ego of this world, and you are ready, so then that comes, such type of test.

Same questioner:   It seems like that understanding, by hearing You to talk about the purpose and understanding is what helps me to have more earnestness. Is understanding a factor of this?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, yes, better understanding, better understanding, better understanding. So, want that.

Same questioner:   Thank You Baba, thank You.

Question:   In the beginning, You were you were saying that this is the ninth or the tenth day of the celebration of the Goddess. For those of us who really don’t know, can You tell us the story and explain what is happening at this point?

Babaji Maharaj:   So, not a big story like a scholar I’ll talk. I have spoken about the concept, that’s what I was trying, comparing these ten days. The mythological story is that there was a demon known as the buffalo-faced one, Mahishasura. And all the angels, gods prayed to the Brahman, the Ultimate Truth to come as Mother Goddess and slay that demon. So, Mother Goddess, Durga, Mahishasura mardini came into existence, manifested Herself and tried to finish. So, that buffalo-faced one had some boons that if his blood fell on the ground, it will become another demon. So Mother was trying to kill him, cut his head. So every time the blood fell, the more Mahishasuras, more demons, more forms of his started cropping up; used to come. Again, She was fighting, fighting, fighting. So like that four, five, six days happened. Then the last three days, some scriptures have explained as Goddess Saraswati’s form, means wisdom, wisdom occurring. So what to do now, how to stop this process? Then She became Jwalamukhi, means the fire and the fierce one. She opened, brought out Her tongue and when this blood was falling down, everywhere She spread her tongue, and just took that blood onto Her tongue and then swallowed it. So thus, no more demons came. So, the story finishes, the evil finishes. The victorious tenth day Mahishasura mardini, Mother Goddess is victorious and blesses the whole world. That’s what the story, mythological story says. In brief I was trying not to go for a long discourse on these things. That concept I was telling. So when you meditate, you are praying for Mother Goddess to manifest and slay all the evils of your mind, that is the demon. Demon is Mahisha. Mahisha is buffalo. Buffalo-faced one means, the one who has lost all wisdom. Our minds have lost all wisdom about our own Self, and we are getting involved into illusion with ego after ego. So that we pray to Mother Goddess to manifest within. And when the mind becomes more and more concentrated, so the watching, when the Master comes in your life and teaches you just to watch. That is the technique He teaches. Don’t get involved with the thoughts; don’t try to slay the demon like this; you have to stop the blood falling on the ground. Means you have to stop any reacting to any thoughts and visions, then only the thoughts will disappear. As long as you recognize a thought, as long as you analyse and make a judgment, the thought will not disappear. It will simply multiply – thought after thought, thought after thought it will come on. So stop that one, stop that one. Then all the thoughts will disappear. So this concept I was trying to tell.

Same questioner:   Okay, so then that may that brings to mind the idea we’re here and we’re all having all these questions. I mean that’s all we’re doing, we’re asking and asking and asking all of our questions. So, isn’t that also part of this process of these thoughts arising?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, as long as the thought arising to kill that thought you take the help of a noble thought. To go on top of the terrace you take the help of a ladder. Until you reach the terrace, you need the ladder, steps, step by step. That’s what this process is. The teacher teaches – as long as you have to think, think about the real Self; think about the atman, noble, so let it be. Then you slay the unwanted thoughts. Then this thought also you can sacrifice when you become quiet.

Same questioner:  Okay Thank You Baba, Thank You.

Question:   Baba You have told the story many times about having a discussion with Your mother about wanting to join Swamiji, and Your mother asks, “Why, how do You know that He’s a good man, or bad man, or whatever?”  And You said to Your mother as I recall, “I don’t know whether He’s good or bad, a criminal. All I know is that I love him.”  And You did join with your mother’s blessing. You did join Swamiji, and Your whole focus and attention was on Swamiji. Probably it was Your whole world. And many times, often sometimes Gurus or teachers advocate with the eyes closed, focusing on the Guru, or the image of the Guru, and I can see that would be a failing proposition if the devotee in focusing on the Guru, thought about all the Guru’s qualities and characteristics because those would be considered thoughts. But if one could focus on the image of the Guru without attributing, giving any attributes, good or bad, no analyzation, no judgment – just focus on the image of the Guru, how would that be different than focusing the attention between the eyebrows? Because in both cases the goal would be to keep the single-pointed focus without any judgments or thoughts or analyzations. Only the image of the Guru is so much more pleasing than putting the intense sight and the attention between the eyebrows. Is it possible to have that type of devotion?

Babaji Maharaj:   Now, what is important that you have to understand. You say that you will be watching, keeping Guru’s image in the mind. You can keep that image of the Guru in the mind as long as you get involved with that image with thoughts, “Oh this is my Guru, how beautiful.”  So, if you lose all thoughts and just watch the image of the Guru, that image will also disappear. Just like the thought disappears; it won’t be there, so you will go beyond. You will come back to the same concept of just watching in-between eyebrows. That means slowly it is turning to itself, the Self. That’s what will happen actually.

Same questioner:   Because You’ve also told the story of Ramakrishna, how He was such a great devotee of Kali Ma and by and by, a saint came by and tried to convince Ramakrishna to focus the attention between here, almost taking Him off of his practice of focusing on Kali Ma. And You tell the story…  I’ll let Baba tell a story what he did finally to cause Ramakrishna to focus here. So in that teaching about Ramakrishna, it appears that focusing between the eyebrows is absolutely the highest, but if the image of the Guru is so profound, if it can be taken without the thoughts and the analyzations, and all the feelings, because the Guru is everything, can be everything for a devotee if their concentration in their faith is strong enough. So I just wanted to hear You tell a little bit more about that and maybe Ramakrishna’s experience as You understand it.

Babaji Maharaj:   You see as Totapuri said that “I will teach you nirvikalpa samadhi,” and he asked him to concentrate in-between eyebrows, withdrawing the mind from all sensory organs and everything. So, every time Ramakrishna used to open the eyes and tell, “I’m able to withdraw my mind from sensory organs and bring it here, but I am unable to remove Mother Kali from here.” As long as there is an imagination, “this is Mother Kali,” is there, any such thing is there, the picture is always there. He wanted to remove that one, Totapuri. The story says he took a piece of glass and pierced in-between eyebrows. “How come you are unable to remove that one? Your Mother Kali is dead. She is no more there. Just watch here.”  Then Ramakrishna went into nirvikalpa samadhi. So that picture…that means, what would have happened at that moment – probably Ramakrishna would have stopped thinking about Mother Kali, recognizing Mother Kali, anything. He just watched there and that picture disappeared, and He went into nirvikalpa samadhi. The same thing with the Guru also. You can start with the Guru’s image. As long as you keep thinking in a bhava of the image of the Master, even if you think the Guru is everything, you are thinking that the Guru is everything without knowing what that everything means, because everything is boundless. It is beyond anybody’s imagination. You cannot imagine everything, impossible. So, that also is a small imagination. When that is given up, you just focus. Like, for example, if you tell me, “I want to see the Guru’s image”, all I will tell you is just watch the Guru’s image, don’t bother about anything else, don’t think about the Guru, because you cannot think totally about the Guru. The Guru is beyond your imagination, your understanding. You just watch and you get into Self.

Question:   So while our family has gone very much into Shakti worship, my father, mother and of course all that, I have been particularly interested in the Dasha Mahavidya, and what amazes me, but also I’ve fallen in love with the fact that the Mother in Her ten forms, some of these forms are extremely violent forms; people can perceive them as violent forms, but I see nothing but love. But the question is, why does She present herself in those complex and fierce forms?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, violent is different, becoming tough, is difference. Like to fight an enemy, a soldier becomes tough, but he need not be called a violent person. He is simply defending his country. In the same way, here also God in that form of Goddess, to slay the evil only that fierce form and anger form She takes, but She is not fierce or angry with all children, only with the evils. So just to slay the evilness of the evil person, she will bless that person also finally with all the kindness. That is why in the beginning of creation when it was said that all the creation that happened was engulfed by the Raudrakara of Lord Shiva which came as a fierce fire, so the creation could not remain stable. Then Sanaka, Sanandhadi and Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, they all prayed the Parabrahman to manifest as Mother Goddess Bhuvaneshwari. Means that concept is the finest and the kindest of the creation who can forgive Her creation, Her children, everybody unconditionally. A mother will forgive you even before you ask for forgiveness. You don’t have to ask for forgiveness. You ask for forgiveness and somebody forgives is a different thing, but mother never has anything bad about you, means she will forgive you unconditionally. That is the concept of Mother Goddess. So, how can she be fierce and violent to anybody? Even when she slays the evil person she slays only the evil, and always in the stories you would have read that she would have blessed. By the end of Vijayadashmi also, the Mahishasura, because he was all the time watching Mother Goddess, and he was given mukti, finally. Only the evilness was slain by Mother Goddess.

Same questioner:   Thank you Babaji.

Question:   Hi, I just have a very quick question. Thank You Babaji. Something weird has been happening with my body recently in meditation and I can’t really figure it out, and it’s very distracting. So I start out meditation very straight up and then as I go deeper, my body just starts to collapse in, and then my mouth drops open. Even though my mind is straight up, my mind is very alert and very straight up and like an arrow going up, but the body is collapsing down and then it, especially when the mouth drops open, it captures my attention. I feel it from where it is and when the mouth drops open, so then my mind has to go back to the body, straighten up the body, close the mouth. Do I just ignore it or do I correct it? What do I do because it’s very distracting?

Babaji Maharaj:   One suggestion, advice is, try to sit onto a wall with a cushion, a pillow, any such thing. So, that might be more helpful not to make the body collapse or bending down like that. And when the mouth opening also; too long to allow the mouth opened is not good because if you fall into concentration over the mind. You keep a glass of water, some water with you; sip some glass of water and then you will be able to close it. Like that you practice several times, then slowly you will be able to keep it closed.

Same Questioner:   Okay, so, I should I should come back to the body and close the mouth and sit up straight and keep it…  

Babaji Maharaj:   Better to attend to the body because leaving it open is not proper. Leaving the mouth open, any foreign particles can enter and be troublesome to the physical body. So taking a little bit water enables you to remain keeping the mouth closed for longer time, slowly.

Question:   My question is very simple. How much time do we need to, or how long or many times do we need to actually be in what is called meditation, closing the eyes? What is the minimum, what is the maximum according to Your experience? Thank You.

Babaji Maharaj:   At least it is recommended that you are able to sit for one hour in a stretch. That’s important because the first thirty, forty minutes, you are likely to be struggling, and finally the mind is likely to fall down for the final five minutes, for the focus. So like that if you practice, one day when you are able to achieve total focus for that one hour, then you can increase. One day as you go on increasing slowly and slowly, step by step. Do not try to go in one go for eight hours like that one. So, eight to ten hours if you can reach then you are able to do tapas. If you want to be active in the world, if you do one hour, maximum two hours is very good enough.

Question:   My question is in the world, you know, I see women as different than men. I mean part of it is physical you know the sexual part, but also just in terms of personality and everything. And when You talk about the consciousness of existence not being male or female, is there a perspective that would help me to see people without the male or female part, and just seeing the consciousness of existence when I relate to other people?

Babaji Maharaj:   You try to recognize a person by consciousness or mind. Don’t look at the body. Don’t try to analyse the body. So then you will feel the oneness, see that the same Self is everywhere. And for another clue,  in front of you is the same space is everywhere. It is inside the body, outside the body; it is in me also is the same space, in a woman’s body also it is the same space. So, what needs is simply merit, determination, courage. All these things is what makes a person go for Self-realization. Dedication, disciplined practice, and patience. So that’s what it makes. So, mind has this power, same power in everybody. So this, historically also, mythologically also, people have shown achieving great meritorious things. Today’s world also, women are coming very equally in all the fields, going to armed forces and what not, equally to menfolk. When they have achieved with courage, determination, disciplined practice, and when they have the patience. So by this we can make out mind is the same and it has the same power. Anybody can achieve, anybody can go for that one. So you try to look in this direction. God bless you.

Same questioner: Thank You Baba. That helps.

End of Session

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