This profound Q&A session with Baba delves into the concept of Divine Mother, explaining the symbolic significance of Hiranyagarbha (the golden womb) as the source of all creation. The discourse details meditation, higher states of consciousness, the journey to Self-Realization, and transcendence of the mind to realize one’s true Self, beyond the illusions of the material world.

0:00 Intro
0:07 How and why Divine Mother came into existence.
3:59 Story of Vishnu and Narada, why Mother comes first.
7:02 The concept of Hiranyagarbha, “The Golden Womb” from which all creation has emerged. There you realize your real Self.
9:21 What appears in the mind is a stumbling block for Self Realization.
10:19 The technique of “Just Watch” to regain Pure Consciousness and attain Nirvikalpa Samadhi.
11:24 For Self Realization, Consciousness has to watch itself, not what appears in the mind.
12:21 Meditation is to stop the mind from thinking or imagining.
13:20 I no longer have many flashy experiences in meditation, only peace and expansiveness. Am I progressing?
15:04 “I assure you, you can’t make your Self disappear.”
15:44 What happens to the person after Self Realization?
17:09 The body is for others to watch and recognize; it is just a media to talk to you.
18:01 It is like entering the dream to awaken someone who is dreaming.
18:13 Is Self Realization like waking up from a dream? Self Realization explained.
20:07 As you continue meditating are there signs of progress?
21:36 The world cannot contribute anything to the real Self, because matter cannot touch or give anything to infinity. Self doesn’t need anything else for its existence.
24:01 Absolute or zero, both our imaginations.(Truth) It is simply there.
24:31 After Self-Realization, at all times only the absolute is visible, we see only the Self.
25:51 How did Rudra become associated with your name?
29:11 Tapas, the final step to Self Realization, can be achieved by meditation or action.
32:52 Developing an attitude of silently watching while you’re in activity.
34:01 The concepts of Mother and Father.
35:55 The distinction between emptiness and the Absolute. In Nirvikalpa Samadhi all imaginations have disappeared.
38:30 Is the principle of male and female present on all planes of existence?
40:25 Illusion was created so creation could continue.
41:44 The yogi is neither attracted or repulsed. He is neutral.
44:44 Impermanence makes you attracted or repulsed.
45:25 Baba gives advice to someone with an abusive mother.
48:40 Meditation is to turn off the projector. Baba explains Consciousness as the watcher, brain as the screen and mind as the projector.
52:21 While living, can a person affect the existence of a departed loved one, such as a mother or father?
54:10 Why is the Divine not telling us, “I am here and I am giving you everything?”

The Divine Mother | In Quest of Truth – Q&A with Babaji, No.190

Recorded on 12 May 2024 with US participants
Youtube link: https://youtu.be/YuH-rC7Zr4E?si=mCVxe2Np9W16XADB

Question:

For most of us our mothers are the closest thing to Divinity that we ever experience in person. Their love, kindness and the selflessness. I know my mother, no matter how bad I was she couldn’t stay mad at me more than five minutes.

You know, they’re always there, always loving, always guiding, that presence. For me, later in life, I realized that was just the nature of the Divine Mother, and gradually developed the relationship with Divine Mother. Could we talk a little bit about the mother in that highest form, the highest principle, Divine Mother. I think most of us have a sense or feeling that someone’s watching over us, protecting us, and guiding us. Yes, that may be our own consciousness of existence, but for me that’s always been kind of the mother thing, because that’s what my mother, my own mother personified.

Babaji: 

Yeah, one of the conceptual stories I heard from Swamiji,  so beautifully meaningful what He spoke. Don’t know where He heard or if it was his tapas experience or coming from Himself, it was wonderful. He said, in the beginning of creation, when ferociously the consciousness arose, that came to be known as Rudra. Rudra means ‘ferocious’. Because He had appeared in the space, He shouted, “Who am I? How did I come into existence like this?” Then a voice from deep in the space uttered, “You sit down into lotus posture, concentrate your mind and sight in between eyebrows and just keep watching there, you will know the secret of your Self.” So thus He went deeply into samadhi, and the creation could not continue. 

Then again Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, they all got created. Means an enormous amount of consciousness arose to create further. But what happened, again in the ferociousness an amazing fire came into existence, and whatever was created, that was being engulfed by that fire. So then now, all the Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva and the first yogis that are mentioned in Indian philosophy, Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanat Sujata, Sanat Kumara, They all prayed to that fire to get transformed into the concept of a mother and give away the world from its womb. Because They thought of this concept of mother in such a beautiful way. Mother is the one who would unconditionally forgive, she would not even expect her children to apologize even – she would have forgiven. That is the beautiful concept of Mother, and cares for her children, she loves. For this, another beautiful story is there, a small brief.

When sage Narada asked, “Why is it that a child gets so attached to its mother, and the mother so attached to its child”? Lord Vishnu says, “I will show you.” They go to a village on the outskirts where the ladies used to go to have a bath in the canal bund and wash their cloths. There, Lord Vishnu laid down as a small child, a baby boy – He was very sweet. All the ladies who were coming took the baby, kissed it and then kept it (put it down) and went away for work.

Then God came and told, “Look Narada, if any one of them were my mother, they wouldn’t have left me alone like that. They would have taken me into their care, nurtured me, looked after me, saw to it that I grew up very well. They wouldn’t have simply given up like that.” That is why the mother is needed. Mother is the first relation for anybody. In Indian spiritual culture, Mata comes first, then comes Pita; Mother first, and Father afterward. Guru is the third place, and God is last. Mata, Pita, Guru, Devo bhavah, like that they have mentioned always.

So this story Swamiji used to tell. We all received such guidance and inspiration from our mothers. My mother taught me the bhakti Marga in its right sense, with the scientific sense. She always used to tell, “Always there are two sets of teachers. One is the saint class who will talk about their experience and follow their teachings. Others, priest class, they may interpret and misinterpret to their convenience. Don’t bother about such superstitious, blind beliefs. Go for a real experience.” Like that we got guidance from our mother. We learned the chants sitting next to her lap.

So that is how we all cherished mother, and I am sure all of you will have same fond memories about your mothers. Such a wonderful thing about Mother’s Day. For us, twice yearly we celebrate 9th and 10th day, Vijaya dashvi, of the great mother’s concept, Maa Durga, Macha Mandeshwari, manifesting and killing the Demon Mahishasura, the buffalo-faced one. So that is celebrated in every way, yearly, twice. Of course, for us, every day is a Mother’s Day. We would touch her feet and take blessings.

Question:

Thank you, Baba, Baba, you know the term Hiranyagarbha, which translates to Golden womb, or golden egg. That concept in philosophy is the egg that holds all possibilities, anything that could exist or manifest is there in the womb, which you imagine as the womb of the Divine Mother.  Could you talk a little bit about the concept of Hiranyagarbha, the golden womb?

Babaji:

That’s why the Divinity, Parabrahman is supposed to be in the garbha, its garbha.  Katha Upanisad talks, when the Divine wanted to create, there was nothing else there other than the Divine, all pervaded, in Supreme consciousness. So the Divine took out from itself, as a raw material, and created this universe. So this suits what Einstein says, when the universe expands, along with that the truth also expands. And that is why in all Indian temples, after crossing three quadrangles, which is symbolically sattvic, rajasic, and tamasic, then you come to the garbhagriha. Sanctum sanctorum is known as the garbhagriha, where the final, that source of all creation, the source of everything else, the Parabrahman is situated. There you realize your real Self. When you go introverted mentally, when you achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi, that is when you enter the garbhagriha, the garbha of your real ultimate Truth, that is the Divinity, that is the real Mother. You go back to the womb of your mother, that is the golden egg, golden garbha that is known as.

Question:

Thank you Baba. Baba, you’ve said, what appears in the mind is a stumbling block for Self Realization. Could you explain what you mean and elaborate on that a little?

Babaji: 

Definitely. When thoughts and visions are there, they are all imaginations. Mind can give only what it imagines. When it imagines, that is known as mind. So until then, the secret is not revealed, because the mind is totally preoccupied paying attention to its own imaginations. It imagines, gets involved and gets carried away. Thus, it is unable to know about its real Self, what it itself is.

That is why the technique of just to watch is taught.  When you just watch you are not paying attention to anything that is in the mind or anywhere else. Your one job is to steadily, gazingly watch at one point, without bothering to think of what that is. No target; just watch in between eyebrows. So then all the visions and thoughts dissolve, because when mind stops thinking, slowly it regains the form of pure consciousness. Once it becomes pure consciousness, that is the Nirvikalpa Samadhi, then it merges with the Self. It gets absorbed into the real Self, that garbhagriha; that is the sanctum sanctorum, where the ultimate truth is hidden and exists in total Mahasamadhi.

Question:

So. Baba with meditation, then you realize that it’s consciousness watching itself, not consciousness watching the mind.

Babaji:

Yes. If consciousness watching the mind means there has to be thoughts and visions, then it will get carried away. So it has to watch itself. Consciousness has to watch itself. That means it has to become aware of itself, because it is not a dual entity which watches through the eyes. It simply becomes aware of itself. When it alone exists, it realizes that.

Question:

So to do that, meditation is to stop the mind from thinking or imagining and when the mind stops, what’s shining forth is your Self.

Babaji:

That is the idea of the meditation. That’s why I stopped talking about visions and thoughts much. Many people try to ask, “I get to see colors, what is this I get to see?”. So they get excited and they want me to endorse as if they are elevated highly and they are highly elevated spiritual souls. I stopped encouraging all such things. If at all you get to see any vision, use it to simply focus, simply watch, and don’t try to think about it. Even if you think it is God, don’t try to think about it, just watch so that you can merge with it. That is more important. So that is why I always tell that you just have to watch and do not do anything else.

Question:

So Baba, back when feeding my mind more with thoughts of celestial worlds and deities and things, I used to have those kind of experiences. And now, I’ve been doing your meditation for 20 years, just about, and now sometimes I wonder if I’m going backwards, because it’s just still, there’s nothing there. There is no flashiness. Yes, it’s peaceful and expansive but I am not having those experiences. Is that because I’ve really convinced myself that what I want is the Self? I don’t want what’s going on in the mind. Have I convinced myself, or have I just been focused on the Self so much that I am just not interested in that, so they don’t appear anymore? Or am I going backward?

Babaji:

Yeah, you’re not interested, and they don’t appear. That means you don’t think about it. You give up your grip on that, and they dissolve. Means, matter is there. If you give up your mental grip on the matter, the matter dissolves. Simply give up, so then there is nothing, but you are there. You don’t disappear. You watch. You are there and you are aware. You yourself appear to be just nothing, but it is you.

Question:

Yeah, I love that saying that you’ve said in the past many times, “I assure you, you can’t make yourself disappear”.  That’s so reassuring, because I realize that it’s right. I can make everything else disappear, but I can’t make that sense of ‘I’, or ‘I am’, or ‘I exist’ disappear.

Babaji:

Whatever nothingness you experience, in the midst of that nothingness you are there. Now it is up to you whether you want to recognize yourself as something, or nothing, or beyond that, or just keep quiet.

Question:

So Baba, what happens when Self Realization is achieved and you now identify yourself as the consciousness of existence, or pure awareness, and you realize that you’re not a body or a personality? You’ve become a kind of universal existence, being and more. So what happens to the person? Like in your case, you’ve got a beautiful personality. You seem like a not average, but a normal person, yet you are Self Realized. What happens to the person after Self Realization?

Babaji:

See, for the Self Realized that person has disappeared, is not there, because he was never there. A certain thing disappeared which had never appeared, that type of thing. So there is no Shiva Rudra Balayogi, nobody is there to do pranams and nothing; only one single Self that exists. So that’s why there will be no expectation, no feeling, nothing is there, simply existence.

Question:

But does the person remain with an identity? You know, the body?

Babaji:

The body is there, but in my consciousness there is nothing. For others to watch, the body is there for others to recognize, “This is Shiva Rudra Balayogi”, “This is our guru”, “This is the one who is talking”. So I am talking through this body ultimately, but in my consciousness, now it is fully aware of what the truth is, and fully aware that this body is not me. I’m just using this as a media to talk to you, because this is how through your body you can understand, if I talk through this body.

Question: 

So it’s kind of like entering the dream.

Babaji:

Entering the dream to make the other person, who is dreaming, understand that they are dreaming.

Question:

So Baba, is that something like the difference between waking state and dream state? When you’re dreaming, there’s a certain kind of mind reality going on, but when you awake from the dream, it didn’t exist. It only existed as a dream. It had no reality. Is Self Realization like another level of waking up from waking state, where it doesn’t exist, none of it exists, it’s only the Self that ever existed?

Babaji:

Are you asking for me or for all others?

Question: 

No, I’m asking is the state of being Self Realized like waking up? Like we wake up from a  dream, and then we realize we were dreaming. But when we’re in the dream, we may not know we’re dreaming. Is it something like that for the Self Realized person; when you become Self Realized is it like waking up from the waking state?

Babaji:

The difference here is, while I’m a witness to this universe, but fully aware that this is only a dream, a longer dream. In the same way, in that dream, when this body goes to sleep, we’ll be fully aware this is a dream and never get carried away. Means no other emotions get generated there, come what may be, whatever dream might be there, it is simply beyond any such imagination. It is simply watching, just like until (as long as) this body is there, we watch this world also. We watch that dream also, like that, without getting carried away, without getting involved.

Question:

As you continue meditating are there signs of progress? I mean, in my own experience, I’ll just use it to try to explain, you just feel detached. You know, you feel kind of uninvolved with the world, but yet you’re there.

Babaji:

Yes, mentally you don’t get involved. You will never get carried away considering anything as a truth. But you might behave normally, as others will see, “Oh, he is also attached like us; He is also eating like us”. It might appear like that, but mentally nothing is happening. Long ago, I remember after my tapas, I was visiting another country. The host brought me beautiful dishes, several dishes on a big plate. One devotee was there, he commented, “Oh, how lovely to be a yogi, we will also be treated like that with so many dishes.” I said, “If you want to enjoy the dishes, never become a yogi, because once you become a yogi, you will never have any idea of all these things. You will never enjoy anything, simply mechanically you will eat. That’s it, finished.” Like that.

Question:

Do you attain such a level of fulfillment that there’s just nothing the mind or the world can contribute to up that. You know, normally, we think of acquiring another dollar or another experience or something. The mind’s always looking for something a little greater. But I can see getting to a point where there’s nothing that can be added. It’s full. It’s completely full.

Babaji:

Definitely, two points about this. The world cannot contribute anything to the real Self, because matter cannot get in touch or give anything to infinity. For matter, infinity is just nothing. Like for matter, space appears to be void, just nothing. It has nothing to contribute for the existence of space. Even if (matter) disappears, space will always be there. In the same way, even if this world disappears, the Self will be there in its own existence. It doesn’t need anything else for its existence.

This body needs for its existence. If the body doesn’t get food, even if it’s a Yogi’s body, it will get dropped, but nothing will happen to me. But others, students might lose, who are able to listen to me through this body, ask a question and get the answers, and get guidance, inspiration, or some love, something that they will feel as their own. Some anchor, as you are telling. If there is somebody to watch me, it gives a lot of satisfaction, the mother’s concept, like that. Today, so many greetings have come who would consider me as a mother. “You are our mother, Babaji”, “You are our mother; You are our father; You are everything”, like that. Several emails and WhatsApp messages. Everything has come. So like that, for them, for their sake, this is there. But the world will not make any difference to me. It will make a difference to this body, because this body is also a matter amongst the world.

Question:

So it’s kind of the reverse. Before you are Self Realized, you kind of imagine the state of nirvikalpa samadhi, maybe as a state of nothing, just empty void. But once you have attained that, you look at what’s in the mind, all the imaginations, as just nothing.

Babaji:

Absolute or zero are both our imaginations. It is simply there, simply being there.

Question: 

So Baba, do you see what appears on the screen [of Consciousness after] Self Realization, does it also seem like it’s absolute? Do forms and thoughts have a quality of being just absolute?

Babaji:

At all times, only that absolute is visible, because that is what we are aware of all the time; we see the Self. Like when we talk to others, we always see the Self. Sometimes it’s funny, the same Self is talking some nonsense there and it is talking some nonsense here, “What is this? What is that?” It is the same Self. Same Self is there and it troubles the same Self. It’s amazingly funny.

Question: 

So it’s like seeing the white wall, the whole wall, instead of just seeing the dots on the wall. Before you see only the dots, you don’t see the wall.

Babaji:

That is visible. The Atman is visible.

Question:

Nice. Okay Baba, we have several questions. Are you ready to take some questions?

Babaji:

Okay, we’ll take some questions.

Question:

How did… in the beginning of your talk today, you talked about the ferociousness of Rudra arising in this great fire. So my question to you, Babaji, is, how did Rudra become associated with your name, or how did Rudra become added to your name when you became a yogi? Because there’s nothing ferocious about my guru. He’s the most loving person, humble, loving person and kind. You know, as much as we hear you tell stories about Swamiji so many times, he was also very loving like a mother to you and a father. But he would rise up sometimes and speak very strongly, but that isn’t something that we experience with you. So how did Rudra become attached to your name? And how did you acquire your name?

Babaji:

The name was given to me by my guru, Shiva Balayogi. I don’t know what He saw in me? He must have seen something. Sometime long ago for this question, I have told to Kedar, “I am a silent killer” [laughs]. “Don’t take me for granted”, that I told. Means when I have to pull you up, I will pull you up silently in a peaceful way, making a joke, something like that. Well, by nature, I don’t lose temper easily, but if I lose temper, that is the rarest of rare cases. If anything happens, then I will take what I need.

Question:

It’s just there’s so much irony for me, you having Swamiji’s name with Rudra added to it. Where is this Rudra? I’ve never seen.

Babaji:

The Rudra has gone into Samadhi, Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

Question:

Baba, I’ve never seen you angry, but I have seen you get really forceful once or once or twice. I remember one time, just sharing this, one time we were on the roof of the ashram in Dehradun, and they were shooting off fireworks, and the kid, the younger kids, were getting a little careless, and fireworks were going everywhere, all around the ashram grounds, and looked like they could start a fire or hurt somebody. And I definitely saw some Rudra.

Babaji: 

Yes, sometimes you should ask this question to Ambaji, Clifford. Ambaji will be able to tell. Today she is taking rest. She had a minor surgery, so she is unable to be here, but she is recovering and well. So sometimes, next time when she is around, sitting here you can ask this question about Rudra to her, she will tell – how the Rudra comes out of Samadhi, how he goes back into Samadhi. At least for you, I am in Samadhi. Don’t worry, I won’t trouble you.

Question:

A few weeks back, towards the end of our question and answers, there was a question asked, as a householder it seems so overwhelming to try to do tapas and try to deepen our practice sometimes. And I think at the end of that, I don’t really remember what your response was so much, but at the end of that, you said that tapas is much more than just meditation. Could you tell us a little more about that?

Babaji: 

Yeah, to understand, when you are able to keep the mind totally quiet and just watching for one hour, that is real meditation. Until then you are trying to meditate. Thoughts are coming and you are trying to control, keeping quiet, but the mind has tendencies, it goes into analyzations, judgments, like that you keep trying. But when it becomes totally quiet for one hour in a stretch. Like that, when you are able to keep the mind quiet in a stretch for eight to ten hours, totally quiet, watching only and nothing else, then a person is able to do the tapas. The same effect [can be achieved], if one is able to keep the mind under control under all circumstances, while active in the world.

That is so difficult. You will understand now, even if you are not sitting for meditation, but if you are active in the world, mingling with people, you have a family, you have responsibilities, you have this and that goes to somewhere, these things happen. There could be somebody irritating you, somebody trying to humiliate you, or somebody not listening to you, something that is not happening according to your wishes. Hundreds of these things keep happening every now and then, irritating you, annoying you. All these things keep happening. So in the midst of all this, if you are able to keep that mind quiet for so many hours, that can serve as a tapas, that can give you the fruits of Realization.

That’s what we could do for 20 years by the grace of our Master, by his training. And any humiliation or under anything (any conditions), we just thought, “This is my master testing”. If others were behaving like that also, we used to keep quiet. Some of our friends even wondered, “Why do you keep quiet? Why don’t you react? They will sit on your head – at least you should act that you are annoyed. If you are not getting annoyed, act that you are annoyed.” Like that, my friends used to tell me. We kept quiet, because as a priority, Self was the need, Self Realization. So I used to pray to my Guru, “I don’t mind any humiliation, anything that is coming, but don’t make me to be reborn again. I must not see any scene. For that, I am ready to undergo any surgery you want to perform on me, no problem. I won’t have any complaint to you.” So like this, if one can adopt the patience to that extent, that becomes tapas.

Question:

Baba, following up on what you said there. You can develop an attitude of just silently watching while you’re in activity. Kind of like turning off the mind and just watching, or witnessing as a practice. Can that be valuable? It seems to happen naturally, but you can encourage it. That seems to be helpful – is that something to do?

Babaji:

Yeah, slowly, slowly, that can become like a practice. See, this world is a big challenge, so you practice for smaller things. You go on practicing just watching, then when you have to face sometimes bigger challenges also, you will be able to keep quiet mentally. Though that is difficult, that will be helpful what you are talking.

Question: 

Okay, Baba, I want to vouch for the fact that you are Rudra, because you have been very angry with me, but that is what pushed me to go further, and I appreciated it. And the other thing is the concept of mother and father.  On this plane it is something, and on another plane, wherever, it’s something else. I see you as a mother, and when you’re Rudra, you become the concept of father. But I just want to understand are mother and father just concepts of our mind?

Babaji: 

That is the concept in the mind and when a person behaves like that. You are born to a mother, you see, your body. If the mother takes care like that, with all attachment. Generally for everybody, a mother would have been a pleasant experience to remember, a childhood, early childhood, when a mother would have looked after everyone. That is it, that is the mother imagination, that is the mother concept. That’s what is the Divine; when they prayed to the Divine, you assume the concept of a mother so that the people of this world are benefited. If that mother’s affection is not there, who will look after the just-born child? If the mother gets annoyed, then the child gets affected.

Question:

But a father could also be a mother. He has that energy as well; like I see you as a mother.

Babaji:

Definitely, Father might appear a little harsh though, but not against the children. He would like that the kids are brought up properly. They don’t get spoiled. So these type of things, he might take a risk and pull them up to be on the right track. So these are the things. The father is also equal.

Question:

Thank you.

Question:
It’s a wonderful topic today, Baba. It brings up something that is oftentimes confusing to me, which is this state of emptiness. It seems like, well, how can you have any happiness in emptiness? I also have this sense because you talk about merging with all of existence. So could you talk about how emptiness is a place of happiness and fullness?

Babaji:

You see, the emptiness that you are talking means at that time the mind is still active and is looking for something and it is missing something. That’s when it is not happy. So what we are talking –  absolute, infinity; it appears to be empty, but is not actually empty. It is the absolute, it exists in itself. In that, all imaginations would have disappeared. In Nirvikalpa Samadhi, when all imagination has disappeared, there would not be wanting of anything. There would not be wanting of happiness, because it is already contented. It doesn’t need anything. That is why it is not unhappy at all, and it is not actually empty. The imagination of the worldly people think it is empty. In emptiness there is wanting of something, that’s why the emptiness word is used. Actually, in infinity, the absolute word is used for better understanding. If that truth, that ultimate truth is absolute, it’s also the Divinity. Like that the words have been used. It is not empty and it doesn’t need any happiness. It is already happy. It is happy already because it doesn’t need anything for its existence.

Question:

All right. Well, thank you.

Question:

Pranam Babaji. So you answered a bit of my question with Susan, but I have a bit more I’d like to touch on. The principle of gender, of male and female has always seemed to me like the highest principle and the highest concept that we have here in the world, because in order for the world to go on both are needed for any creation or for anything to exist. Is this principle present on all planes of existence? Was it there with Brahman since the very beginning? Or did the male and female concept only come into being once it was necessary in this material world for propagation?

Babaji:

In the beginning of the creation, any concept would not have been there. But just then an illusion was needed, so you don’t try to trouble the ultimate Truth. Mother gives toys to the child so the child remains absorbed with the toys for some time, so she can work in the kitchen or office or anywhere and the child won’t trouble her. The moment the child gets tired of the toys, then it will call the mother, it will start crying for the mother, then mother will be forced to take the child. That is the concept of Divinity, the ultimate Truth, and then the concept of male and female coming into existence.

Question: 

Yeah, because I thought the ultimate being advaita, “not two”, how can two separate concepts of male and female exist as only one, right?

Babaji:

Yeah, in scriptural stories also, these things have been mentioned. When Rudra appeared and then went into samadhi, the creation could not continue, because there was no illusion. Then Divine thought, there is an illusion that is necessary. That illusion is the toys I spoke of, to give you some concept. I have also told, all of us bodily were born because of our parents, but nobody ever bothered to think, “Who am I? How did I come into existence?” These two things don’t come to human beings or any creature. They all think because of our parents we came into existence. But instead, in this body if you were made to appear in the space suddenly, without any concept, then you would have wondered, “My God, how did I come into existence like this”? That was what happened to Rudra. “Who am I then?” Then he would have immediately gone back to the Self. Continuation wouldn’t have happened. So that’s how the illusion was created.

Question:

Hello Baba, I was paying close attention when you were telling the story about going to the dinner after your tapas, and how someone said how great everything was, and you said, “That’s not the way of the yogi” or something. So my question is this. It seems to me that we have three responses to life, which is an attraction, like to the guy that was attracted to the food, or repulsion to something, or to be neutral. It seems to me what you’re saying is that the responses of a yogi are neutral, and yet in this world we’re often taught that happiness comes from following what we are attracted to. But it seems if we follow attractions and repulsions, the imagination is then engaged, and that would be just the opposite of what we need to be at peace and to find happiness.

Babaji: 

Exactly. That’s what a yogi is. I neither get attracted nor repulsed. Like if anybody comes, whoever comes onto Zoom, they get my answers, they listen to my answers. People who don’t come to the Zoom, I am not repulsed, I don’t get annoyed with them. The time is not yet ripe for them. So whoever has come, it is the ripe time for them, like that, neutral. That’s why I have peace. I have peace. I’m not worried. I’m not annoyed. I’m not irritated. Because whoever is destined to get my blessings, they are brought by the Divine guru, so I don’t have to worry or bother.

Question:

And this is just the opposite of what the world teaches us. The world teaches us the least attractive thing is to be neutral, because you’re neither this or that, but in essence that’s all wrong.

Babaji:

Yeah, when you pursue on that path, you never get happiness. After 50 or 60 or 70 years, 80 years, you look back, the same peace you have had been looking for since childhood seems to be so elusive in this world.

Question:

Well, I am certainly going to begin to pay very close attention to when my impulse goes toward attraction or repulsion, and try to be bring it back to being just neutral about everything,

Babaji:

Because the nature of matter is impermanent, including your own physical body. So that is why it cannot give a permanent happiness, because it isn’t going to be existing permanently at all. So it makes you repulsive; it makes you attractive, this, that, keeps happening. It makes you happy; it makes you unhappy, one follows the other. So if you become neutral, you end the cycle.

Question: 

What a wonderful lesson. Thank you. Baba

Question:

Happy Mother’s Day Babaji. Baba, Mother’s Day is always a big struggle for me. Everybody is celebrating their mother. My mother was a very violent person, and she remains so to this day. Just two weeks ago, she bit somebody very close to her. She’s 80 years old, and she’s still biting people. It’s very embarrassing for me. So, sadly I feel very embarrassed by my mother, and I’m also very conscious of the ways in which her influence has not been so good for my formation, because coupled with that violence she is also a very cruel person, mentally. She does try to be loving, and she does tell me that she loves me, but it’s not a love that is very easy to receive. I can feel that there is some truth in it, but it’s so complicated for me because of her continuous aggression over many, many years. And I try to be loving to her, but sometimes I feel I’m just putting on a show, and I will be glad when it’s all over, to be frank.

Babaji: 

I fully understand. A few points of my opinion. Though in this world, bodily she is your mother, but first thing she is a soul. Eventually she will find her path, so there is nothing for you to worry about it. Number two, every person is bringing their own basic nature from previous lives and they behave accordingly. So there is nothing for you to feel embarrassed, because you are not the reason for her behavior. You are helpless, you didn’t pray to anybody that you want to be born to her and trouble her, nothing. You didn’t even know, you were just born, so you don’t have to feel embarrassed. It is her own, whatever you call it, either karma or whatever nature she is carrying that is making her to behave. So what you can feel is, you can feel sorry and you can pray for her, “May this soul get peace”, at least in its next life. “Oh Divine, please help the soul to find its proper path”, for whatever reasons it has been behaving like this in this life, the body, the brain, whatever way it has become challenged like that. It’s sad that it’s behaving [that way] but none of us are the reason for that. It’s [her] own karmas. So you pray. Thus you will also get some peace, some better understanding, and you will come out of that bondage of attachment. In a neutral way, as a saint, you pray for her, “May that soul find its peace”.

Question:

Pranams Babaji, you have explained the purpose of doing meditation is to silence the mind. The analogy you gave yesterday is like to switch off the projector so the brain does not reflect.  When we have the mental projection on the screen, is the screen the mind, or is it part of the consciousness where we see?

Babaji:

Switching off the projector means, without bothering to harm the screen. Screen is the brain. As long as it is in the projector, the negative, it is in a coded way. Only when it is projected onto the screen, does it become a motion picture. So the screen enables that in collusion with the projector. So what can you do? If you try to tear the screen you will simply be harming the screen, but you won’t be able to stop the projection. Instead of harming the screen, just stop the projector, then the screen remains in its place. Screen is always available whenever you want to project, so you are not harming that, the brain. Brain is healthy, whenever you need to use – in this world, you always need a brain. You can use the brain, when you don’t need you can remain withdrawn and at peace. That was what I was trying to explain yesterday.

Question:

Thanks Baba, pranams.

Question:

Baba in that analogy or example, where would consciousness fit if the mind is projecting the thoughts on the screen, which is the brain?

Babaji:

Yeah, the consciousness is neither projecting, nor is the screen receiving, but yet it’s getting into an illusion as if it is having all the experiences. So that’s why, once the projector is stopped it realizes, “I was just only watching”. So that’s what, in meditation, “just watch” means. I’m trying to help people so they can stop their projections. Then all thoughts and visions disappear in the mind, and the mind realizes by regaining the form of pure consciousness. Here, consciousness is in infinity. It is invisible. Only the projector is visible, the projected thoughts are visible.

Question:

So consciousness is what’s watching. It’s watching, like sitting watching the movie, which is projected.

Babaji:

Like many times I tell, when you are having a dream, so many characters are there. All are your own consciousness, your own creation within your mind, and you are watching also. Who is this one who is watching? That’s what gets revealed when all other characters disappear and only the watcher is there.

Question:

Baba, I have a question. Somewhere in the Crest Jewel of Discrimination, a while back I read something, that the child can free the father, and I guess the mother. The child can free the father and mother and I thought that can’t be true. I went and looked at your commentary, and you said something about it as well. So I guess my question is, when we bless the mother, when we bless the father, if we are one single Self, can we imagine them reaching their 100%? Can we actually help them to find the ultimate? I know it’s still the dream, I know I’m not in the ultimate. But how does the child free the father? Is it by letting go of that concept in my mind?

Babaji: 

One thing is there. Our great sages have told, if the child itself becomes Self Realized, that vibrative effect goes to parents eventually, and it opens their gate for the ultimate truth also. So first thing, you have to become Self Realized, then your prayers will become very strong. It simply increases tremendously, millions of millions of potency value. At that time, if you pray it would be possible.

Question: 

I think you’re saying this to me as a hook for me to become Realized. But I’ll take it. Thank you. Thank you, Baba. Thank you.

Question:

Gurudev, in one of your books, you jokingly said that when applying massage to Swamiji’s body, Guru Maharaj’s body, he once said, “Hey, be very careful, I have 100 children in my womb” to the person giving the massage. So I wanted to ask in this lighter note, when a child is in the womb of a mother, I have read biology, the amniotic fluid is there in the womb, which nourishes the child. Like that, space is all around us, it is nourishing, giving everything whatever we need, inside and outside, without us knowing we are in that fluid, or in that space. So why do we need any other character except for guru to appear in front of us? Why space is not telling us that I am here and I am giving you everything?

Babaji: 

Space is telling but you are not listening, because you are too preoccupied with your own imagination. Imagine, I come to your home, but you are too busy working on your cell phone, mobile phone, and then you complain, “Why Babaji is not talking to me, why Babaji is not knocking to me?” I am knocking and I’m trying to talk to you. You are only busy with your cell phone. The Divine is talking to you, is giving you everything, telling you, slapping you also, but you don’t want to listen because you are busy with your mind. So in meditation, if you get rid of that, then you will get to listen to the Divinity who is calling you. That secret will be revealed. Blessings.

End of Session