Dedicated to the lotus feet of the divine guru Shivabalayogi Maharaj


Surrender in total faith

Perth Retreat Q & A 2nd May 2009

Question 1

Baba, this probably has been asked before, but when we’re meditating, thoughts come up and we’re supposed to just watch them and not even react. But one thought just goes into another and another and another and I find eventually I just have to stop the thoughts and bring the attention back here again. Is that correct, or do we have to keep watching them and not stop them?


No, this is also correct. If you try to bring your vision in front of you, because as the thoughts come, when the mind expands, running, running, you will see that the distance between you and that vision grows, it becomes longer and longer. But when the eyeballs are brought together then that distance decreases. It comes to that vanishing point as we call it. So your effort shall be in that direction, to bring it closer – if you steadily just watch, watch, that is like a battle. That mind slips into thoughts and you would bring it back again, that vision – just watch – ‘So I have to watch here’. So that is what you have to be obeying – the command of the Master. While initiating, this is one important command, so then that is all your job, that is what is to surrender in total faith. Otherwise what happens, the mind gets involved into hundreds and thousands of types of thoughts – ‘Why to concentrate here? What is the thing? What is the meaning?’ This, that, so many things. Instead of all that, if the mind can stick to one thought: ‘The Master has asked me to concentrate, my job is to concentrate’. Stick to that thought and put in efforts in that direction. That will be the right thing.

Question 2

Baba, can You talk a bit more about the Guru Gita? You chanted two slokas after the meditation to wake us up…could You speak about the meanings and generally the whole thing about Guru Gita, its concept and such things?


Guru Gita is a beautiful book, a conversation between Goddess Parvathi and Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva in the role of the Master, the Guru, when Goddess Parvathi put forward her doubts. It’s the concept of the Guru and how it has come from the Divinity Itself explained. That is how in Indian philosophy and tradition, a Saint, a Master, particularly a Realized soul, is always recommended to be considered equal to God. To some other cultures this may sound strange, awful and not appropriate also, but for Indian culture it is quite common. Because traditionally it is always believed that the first time the knowledge and wisdom about the Ultimate Truth has come from none other than that same Divine, the Self. Meaning, in other words, the knowledge about the Divinity and Self has come down from none other than God. God Himself has assumed the form of the Guru to clarify the doubts of the student. In this it is said that first the Divine appeared as Dakshinamurthy and taught this amazing knowledge of the Self, this knowledge, awareness of the Self to the first four Yogis.

The creation itself has come into existence by the technology of the mind’s imagination. Just by listening to this statement it would be a bit difficult for everyone to understand how a mind itself creates such a vast creation. Whenever I refer to the mind’s consciousness it does not mean only the present day individual human-being’s mind. Because this soul’s journey is very, very long. When it began suppose the consciousness came out from the Divinity, imagine the potency of that Divine Consciousness – it would have been much, much – maybe a billion times – stronger than the present day human mind’s potency. But this droplet called the mind has done so much in this world of achieving and discovering, inventing in all the fields.

So these first Yogis wanted to know about the Ultimate Truth, what It is. They wanted to become aware of It. They went to Brahma who is supposed to have narrated all the Vedas – like God is all-pervading, God is this, God is that, this is what the Divinity is. But they were not satisfied because their mind did not settle down peacefully, they could not become aware of what It is. Just like, now if I just tell one sentence: ‘It exists in Itself.’ All of you sitting here try to ponder in your mind, does the exact meaning of this come to your mind, does it penetrate? I will repeat once again: If you see this space and all the object matters that are here, everything – glass, radio, television, microphone, wall, pillar, this fan – everything exists in the space. And these things cannot go out of the space. To whatever distance this travels it will have to be inside the space only. And this space which appears void in-between these two walls is the only substance of existence which has the quality to exist in itself. This means, it does not require anything else for its existence. Whether this microphone is here, inside this microphone also the same space is spread because this exists in the space. You remove this from this place, that space exists. But this cannot exist without the space because you cannot remove this space. You try, you try to remove this space – that is not possible.

So this is how the Guru always tries to teach, again and again, again and again, but you have to become aware of It. This is what Brahma tried to teach them, this phenomena of the Ultimate Truth, but they were not satisfied because their mind did not become aware of what It is. So they went to Vishnu – that’s what the story tells in the Guru Gita also – then Vishnu tried to explain in the best possible way. Then also they were not satisfied, it did not penetrate their minds’ consciousness. Then Vishnu said, ‘Go towards the south. When you see somebody sitting facing the south then that would be Lord Shiva. Only He can satisfy your doubts’. When they went on travelling, Bhagavan Shiva was sitting in the lotus posture as Dakshinmurthy, they went and sat in front of Him. There was such an amazing vibration coming out of Shiva, Dakshinamurthy, they forgot to ask their question. They were so mesmerized, such was the impact on their mental consciousness, they totally became silent and they simply sat silently in front of Him. They also became meditative. Dakshinamurthy never uttered any words at all. Quietly He sat. And slowly their minds receded and they became aware of that Self – ‘Yes this is It’. So that is how the first Guru concept is said to have come into existence by the Grace of the Divine Shiva who appeared in the form of Dakshinmurthy.

So that is how the Guru-disciple relationship and the Guru-disciple concept has started. This is all explained beautifully, the mahima, the greatness of the Guru and the role of a Guru and the role of a student; why a student needs to have reverence to the Guru; how the mind becomes serious and steadfastedly it can go into sadhana; and how the Guru Graces upon the student by revealing the Truth; how the Guru with all the patience tries to answer the question of the student. All these things have been explained, so beautifully, in so many ways.

So this is what the Guru Gita is. In that it is quite possible a little bit has been added. Always what happens, when the first knowledge is given by the Master and generation after generation when they have to hand it down, it is likely to get fabricated a little bit. Like today I am able to talk based on My experience and the next generation would publish a book, and if that goes into re-edition after fifty or a hundred years – like ‘Heart of Peace’ or any such book goes into re-edition – at that time whoever would be trying to re-edit, if that person’s understanding is not perfect, he has not experienced, he’s likely to fabricate it with certain other things – that is quite possible. Wherever I have found such things I have tried to rectify based on My experiences and have tried to give My personal opinion in the commentaries that I have written.

Question 3

Baba, the infinite wisdom – is that still expanding, like are You still learning more now?


You see, once the Awareness has happened that happens once for all. It is not that ten percent of awareness has come and then fifty percent . That is not the thing that happens. What happens, what expands, is the imagination of teaching. Suppose for the ten years I am teaching the same Truth, every time that expands, new terminologies are possible and new types of formula are possible so to make people understand what it is, the effort would be in that direction. So that is where it is possible, that comes from that Divinity only. But most of the time, all these ten years, the repetitions would be there, terminologies could be changing, examples could be a little bit changing, wherever that imagination comes. But the actual knowledge itself does not expand. Once it is one with the space which is unlimited and all-pervading; it doesn’t have to expand more. That’s how it is.

Question (same questioner):

So Baba, have You told us all of that wisdom?


It is not possible to tell all of that. Like for example, the space is all-pervaded; it is not possible to tell how long and how wide it is. But we try to tell, ‘ten feet, a hundred feet, a thousand feet, that increases, ten thousand feet’ – but still finally you have to experience the all-pervadedness. That’s when you become aware of It.

Question 4:

Can I just follow on from that? I’m really interested in a lot of new studies of the brain and brain research. They discovered amazing things about how we can use our brain and different exercises to say learn new languages, to improve memory and things like that. You’ve said before that a Yogi sort of moves beyond the brain and isn’t that interested in the brain. Is it a distraction then or is it something to really try and improve, those capacities of your brain while you’re living – is it a distraction to the path of Yoga, or can they sit side by side but just recognize the Self beyond body, brain and all of that, but still work on the physical capacity?


Both are there, plus and minus. Very often it can be a distraction because the ultimate goal and the truth is to withdraw the mind and make it quiet, and as long as you’re alive you have to utilize this brain. The mind needs to remain under your control at all times, that shall be your ability, and then use the brain in whatever way that you want, then the brain can be your friend. But if you are not Realized, if you are unable to keep it totally under control, when you go on doing the research with the brain and it expands, this brain is going to show a beautiful cinema and the mind is likely to get involved with it and become a slave to the brain’s reflections. So the brain should never become master. At all times the mind should be the master, then there is no harm in whatever way that you want to use the brain. That is how, several times I have told, ‘The brain can be your best friend, it can become your worst enemy also; you have to be careful’. If you know this concept and take care, then going for research and utilizing the brain’s capabilities is not harmful. You should never get involved. You produce any number of movies, it’s no problem; you write any number of stories, you can imagine. But if you ever get involved into the emotions of your own stories, you are gone.

Question 5:

Babaji, the brain is a biological organ. I want to know, who uses the brain? Who is there who uses the brain?


So that is the Self’s consciousness, whichever part uses the brain, it comes to be known as the mind. Because when it wants to use this consciousness, it comes away from the Divinity and uses illusion inside the illusion. That becomes known as the mind. Because the Divine itself is in Itself in Mahasamadhi. It does not use any imagination, It does not resolve anything, does not require anything. It is the mind which uses the brain. But after some time the mind becomes the slave of the brain’s reflections. Whatever the brain reflects, with good faith it takes it as the fundamental truth, whereas the brain simply reflects based on its imagination capabilities. That is how very often in all your minds, a certain truth can appear as a false thing and a certain false thing can appear as a truth. And thus you are likely to be fooling yourself if you have no control over your mind and the Ultimate Truth. So that is what is important.

Question (same questioner):

So that means, when a thought arises and it goes in touch of the brain the brain gives a picture to that thought, that’s how the thoughts can get into that analyzation, and that analyzation becomes so solid and we start believing that, ‘This is it’. So that’s how we come to the judgment, that this is it, and we further go into it again, into the thought process?


Yes, when the mind assumes an imagination, with the help of the brain an image appears instantly. Watching that image, the mind forgets, ‘This image has appeared because of my own imagination’. Considering that image to be a fundamental truth, it further tries to analyze about that image, while doing so it makes a judgment, and clones that image into another thought and itself also gets broken. Like this, this consciousness called mind gets broken into millions and billions of pieces, keeps wandering aimlessly in this universe called illusion and thought after thoughts also, thousands and millions of thoughts keep arising. That is what happens, when you close your eyes to practice meditation all those thoughts which are sitting in the subconscious state of the mind start coming out and getting evaporated, because at that time the mind is trying to become quiet. But because of the nature of the brain, it decodifies and shows everything as a visual effect or a thought process. Watching that, the mind again analyzes and gets involved into it. So skillfully the Guru again and again teaches, ‘Withdraw the mind. Do not bother about the reflection of the brain’. That’s what I tell. When you have to live in this world you require the analyzing and judgment processes, but while meditating you do not require to analyze or judge, you have to simply watch. Then only, eventually, in due course of time, you can become aware of the Truth’s existence.

Question (same questioner):

So like You said that while living in the world you need to analyze or judge, but that becomes the mind’s habit and that is why it’s always active because it has become habitual to think, to judge, to analyze and that means when we meditate, the secret is that you should not think, you should not judge, whatever comes you just accept. So that means we have to be non-judgmental, not analyze, then what is the use of the brain ultimately?


What happens – you have to keep the mind quiet for your sake, and you should be able to use the brain for this world’s sake; that is also needed. So if you practice the meditation, and if you practice the Tapas for a long time, then this mind gains such ability. Like for a Yogi, I imagine, I think, analyze and try to make a judgment wherever it is possible but fully aware that this is coming from the Divinity and not My imagination, My existence is not there at all. Then the mind does not absorb that doership at all, so it does not absorb any imprint of those thoughts, whether it analyzes, whether it makes a judgment. Very often the Yogi does not make a judgment actually. He simply thinks and tries to do it and watch the rest of the Divine play, what happens. That’s when a Yogi thinks and does and does not expect any particular result; as the result comes, simply the mind accepts. So actual judgment really does not happen through the mind, but still I’m able to live in this world in a limited way of course, our living would be limited. The more you want to get involved you are likely to get involved with the illusion. The more deeply you go into the illusion there is always the risk and danger that the illusion is going to overtake you. It is like when Hanuman was trying to cross the ocean, that Asura, the demon stopped Him and asked Him to enter the mouth or else he wouldn’t let Him pass and Hanuman tricked the demon by making Himself very small and suddenly entering the mouth and coming out again – that example is that concept – you should quickly go inside the ‘mouth’ and come out. If you delay it, you’re likely to get involved in the illusion. So this skill is possible only when you practice, practice, practice meditation.

Question (same questioner):

Still while living in the world, is it possible, still we…


At all times. That is the Tapas, even whilst talking you should be able to meditate, meaning, able to keep that conscious attention onto the Self – Tattvamasyadi Lakshiyam. ‘Lakshiyam’ means your attention should always be there. That means when watching the movie you should be aware that you are watching the movie. Then of course that much of interest does not go into the movie, you won’t be able to enjoy it in any way, it loses its effect but it doesn’t matter, because you’re already happy.

Question 6:

Babaji, at the point where the thought stops and there is some calmness, often there is a feeling like there’s a change physically in the head. Is that my imagination?


As long as the feeling of the physical is there that is to be considered a thought. Meaning, thought has stopped but still its further image is still there, some thought potency. If the ten percent thought potency has stopped but two percent potency is still there, that’s when that feeling comes. When everything stops, simply the consciousness awareness will be there; nothing else would be there, no location, nothing happens.

Question 7:

This is a bit more superficial, but I was thinking today about often when you’re meditating somewhere with a group, there’s often something really extreme happening outside, and it’s not just a coincidence, I’ve seen it happen so many times, someone is outside revving his car, or someone is having a domestic argument outside the window when there’s a group. Is that really, why does that happen? I mean it seems to be so common. What’s going on there?


When your attention gets involved into that one, so then that starts appearing. The sound is always there.

Question (same questioner):

No, no, no, it’s true, You’ll see it, it happens. I’ve just seen it happen so often that I thought, ‘Why does this often happen?’ If there’s a lot of people meditating or…Just today Baba when we were meditating there were lots of cars driving around very loud, very fast….


Yes actually the road is close, it is not very far. Not necessarily that it should happen every time that you sit. Sometimes it can happen as a coincidence. Because this is like the physics, some people are trying to remain quiet and some people are fast trying to be more active, that is why it’s happening.


Opposites attract.


(Laughs) yes maybe its opposites attracts.

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