Recorded on 4 January 2026 with US participants

0:00 Intro
0:10 Desire is the root of indiscrimination, Chapter 16, verse 7
3:54 What causes attachment?
5:42 Why does desire arise in the first place?
6:45 So desire is not the problem, it’s the attachment to the desire?
7:45 Is a Self-Realized Yogi free of desire or just free of attachment?
8:57 What use is the body for someone who is free of attachment?
9:47 Chapter 16, verse 7. A Yogi is free from the dualities of likes and dislikes.
13:44 A Yogi is not attached to interesting places
15:00 How did Babaji get on this call without a resolution in the mind?
16:49 When you’re completely in the moment, there is no resolution. There is just awareness of the present.
17:21 When you make a resolution, consciousness seems to automatically provide to fulfill that resolution.
18:57 Chapter 16, verse 9 “One attached to the world wishes to give it up in order to avoid its miseries, but that One who is free of all attachment is free from those miseries, even if he is moving in the world.”
20:51 How the world appears as a dream for the Yogi.
26:46 So we have to quiet the mind, silence the mind, and then what’s left is your own consciousness of existing?
27:37 Chapter 16, verse 10 “True knowledge is that state where the imagined individual self, the ego, no longer exists.”
29:32 Does “the knowledge” mean Self knowledge—awareness that you’re the Consciousness of Existence?
31:16 Chapter 16, verse 11. “Even if the gods, Shiva, Vishnu or Brahma, become your teacher, until you forget everything, you cannot become settled in the True Self.”
42:20 “The yogi who is liberated while alive, after dropping the physical body, will become one with the ultimate Truth.” Wasn’t he already one with the ultimate Truth?
43:57 Somebody who hasn’t attained Self Realization may not be able to imagine a level of Supreme Peace. They might think they are enjoying their body and the world fully, so they might not want to give them up.
46:15 Did the creation or bodies, these humans and all of creation come as a result of a desire, or was it just a spontaneous uncaused manifestation?
46:37 Baba, is desire something for a more evolved nervous system? Did creation begin with desire?
52:06 Imaginations eventually develop into desires, and eventually reach the desire that we want to know the Self, and if it is strong enough, we dedicate ourselves to discovering the Truth.

Special Instruction – Ashtavakra Samhita | In Quest of Truth – Babaji Q&A, No. 258

Recorded on 4 January 2026 with US participants

Question: Okay, Baba, we left off on chapter 16 of the Ashtavakra Gita titled ‘Special Instruction’ and we were on verse 7.

Desire is the root of indiscrimination. As long as it persists, there will be attachment or aversion to objects of the world, which is the branch and bud from which the tree of samsara – worldly involvement – sprouts.

And Your comment,
“When there is desire, wanting and not wanting, one binds themselves to samsara. By getting married one does not get bound to samsara and by becoming a monk, one would not have sacrificed samsara. Mental attachment decides whether one is in bondage to samsara or not. Worshiping God, one’s mind could be wandering wildly in the world of desires, for another, while moving in the world they consciously could be abiding in the Self.”

Babaji: Yes, that’s what we have tried to tell. Desire means a person can go mad after the world. He can lose the concentration on the Self. That is one reason, when imaginations occur in the mind, and the forgetfulness of the Self has happened. So, to this, we have to restrain ourselves. If we try to go according to our needs, whatever is a basic need there, we have to go into this world. But then, we have to practice acceptance. Today, I am able to eat something that is tasty for me, tomorrow the illness may not allow me to eat any such thing. At the time, have satisfaction and try to change and adapt accordingly. Means, here, adjustment and management comes, finally. So, thus, you can stay away from so many strong desires which shall not bind us to this world. Our dependence, we should not feel scared and panicked that, “Oh, what will happen if I don’t get a glass of milk now?” So, it need not be so much. Something else we will be able to drink, if not milk, some buttermilk or some tea or some coffee, anything what is available, we will see, which is not harmful to the body. Like that, we should be able to adjust and accept things. So, that is what Ashtavakra tells; as long as we don’t bind ourselves.

And also we have commented, simply by becoming a monk one doesn’t get liberated from all desires. A desire can come anytime to anybody. Simply by being a householder also, there is no need that one will always have a desire. One can achieve satisfaction, contentment and acceptance. All these things can come to any human being who practices meditation and spiritual sadhanas. That’s the basic idea of telling this commentary.

Same questioner: So, Baba, it says that desire creates attachment or aversion. What causes attachment? A desire, but desire is a natural thing that arises in everybody.

Babaji: Yeah, an attachment occurs when we totally depend on that thing for which we are desiring. If that thing is not available, it would appear to us as if the world is collapsing, the mountain is on our head, something like that. So, Swamiji used to tell sometimes when people used to come with problems or any such “Things not happening in life, what to do?” So, He used to tell, “You are not going to be hanged in the morning. Why are you worrying so much?” That type of thing will not happen. But the mind goes into such worry, “Oh, God, there is no milk, there is no coffee, I cannot live”, for many people when they are habitual. So, that type of desire. So, in other places, I have also tried to tell, having a desire itself is not a problem. Ability to accept if it doesn’t happen, if it happens. Finally, that’s how. Like in a battlefield, a soldier accepts; if death comes, if it is not victory, no problem, he will have the satisfaction he fought for it. Like, we try for whatever desire is there, till the last breath you can try. But if it doesn’t happen, simply accept then so that your mind can receive and become quiet. So, that is important to take us out of the bondage – attachment, that’s what is the attachment you are talking of.

Same questioner: Why does desire arise in the first place?

Babaji: One thing, the mind is looking for the same peace that it had enjoyed by remaining in the Self, a part of the Self. And also, the body’s nature is like that, body urges. So, it needs many things to sustain itself. First thing, it needs oxygen to sustain itself, it needs water, it needs some food and all these things. Anything else, then when we come across the world, then we would like to have it for our pleasure, for our leisure, any such thing. So, because of these reasons, attachment occurs, then we become attached to that one. “Oh, without this, it’s not possible for us to stay.” So, like that, the attachment comes along with the desire.

Same questioner: So Baba, what You’re saying though is that the desire is not the problem, it’s the attachment to the desire.

Babaji: Yes, ready to accept; if it doesn’t happen, just accept it. If it happens also, don’t get excited. Tomorrow it has happened, tomorrow it may not happen. So, like that, just keep your mental equilibrium at peace. That is the most important thing, acceptance, what we call it. So, that you are not troubled, you are not binding. Attachment is that you bind, “Oh, without this glass of milk, I cannot live,” you want to bang your head on to the wall if you don’t get it. Like small kids do stubbornly trouble mothers, “I want this, I need to have,” like that. That’s what the attachment that occurs, and the trouble also comes; we bind ourselves. So, then we become miserable if we don’t get it.

Same questioner: So Baba, when Self-Realization is attained, and a person becomes a yogi, are they free of desire, do they have desire, or are they just free of the attachment?

Babaji: They won’t have such desires continuously arising, simply a basic need of a body, like we’ll feel hungry. At that time, if anything is available, then we would like to have that which is permissible for our health. So, that type of a basic need to sustain, but not too much of body urges will be entertained. That shall not come at all, because of the mind remaining in the Self all the time, simply a basic need to sustain the body. A need of the oxygen would be there, a need of some water, need of some food, like the basic needs, that is all. More than that, it will not be any such desire that “We need to have this big car, I need to have a helicopter, I need to have a big bungalow,” that type of any worldly desires will not occur at all. It never comes even.

Same questioner: So, Baba, if you’ve attained, risen above attachment, aversion, you know, the whole thing of dualities, pleasure and pain, happy and sad, and you’re in Supreme Peace all the time, what use is the body? Why would someone want to preserve the body?

Babaji: Just to preserve the body for a while, so that it can be helpful to others. We can serve the mission of the Guru, to sustain only basic needs only we take, otherwise there is no need. If it’s available, we might have an ice cream also, but if it’s not available, there is no craving (Babaji laughs). That’s the example; no craving that we must have it.

Same questioner: OK Baba, verse 8.
From activity, attachment arises, from avoiding action, aversion arises. That wise one established in the Self is childlike, free of the pairs of opposites.

And in Your commentary You say,
“A yogi is a person with the wisdom of Self-Knowledge, free from the dualities of likes and dislikes, a yogi is like a child without any ideas of good or bad, of attachment or aversion. Yogis have no resolutions in their mind.”

Babaji: Yeah, you see, there is no aversion that we do not participate in any action at all – like this mission. So you ask, would you like to do the zoom? Yeah, we suddenly remember that so many people must be waiting, that for two months we didn’t do it. We must do it. So we are not averse to doing an action. If nobody contacted and nothing happened, quietly we’ll be in a corner. At peace, nothing happens. “Why is this zoom not happening?” That also doesn’t come. “Why it should not happen” also doesn’t come. If somebody reminds, if it is there, then we come. So that is what happens. So either way, there is no like or dislike. We can be active bodily, bodily we would try to be minimally active, too much involvement, indulgence into the world can drag you back, but a Self-Realized yogi will never do that one. He would not be attracted to any of such activities.

So just like, just the other day, yesterday, some people were sitting. They were asking me, “Have you visited this place in Australia?” I said, “I don’t go to Australia or America to visit places. I just go, I remain at the host’s place and then I’m taken to the venue to do the program. We do the program or a retreat, then I am back at home in my room. At the most, I might come into the drawing room of the host’s home. If they are more friendly, known people, sometimes I might just come. More than that, I don’t go to any place. I don’t need to see Niagara Falls or anywhere, such things, nothing. I don’t see United Nations buildings also, I never had any such desires that I needed to go out and see because I have come to America. Many times, hundreds of times in the last 25 years, I’ve visited America also. People have wondered, “You haven’t seen this, you don’t go anywhere else in America? Such a good chance that you go to America, you must visit this place, you must visit that place.” I told them, “I don’t get any such desires. I just go to teach meditation, conduct retreats. That is fine. If I’m in the Ananda ashram, I’m in the Ananda ashram, that’s all. Don’t go out anywhere. Only for a walk, I have to go a little bit and then come back. More than that, there is nothing else for me to see.” I tell them, “I have seen that thing after seeing which there is no need to see anything. That is the Ultimate Truth experienced. That is the greatest wonder, the most attractive. Nothing else can be as thrilling as that it is, as awesome of the Ultimate Truth in this world, the entire world, the entire universe, the Milky Way, the galaxies.” I would tell that.

Same questioner: Yeah, Baba, that’s back to what You used to say, that Supreme Peace is beyond bliss. If bliss is the supreme happiness, once you’re beyond all and above happiness, above bliss, in that supreme state, I guess the world can be interesting, but not very attachment worthy. We take You around, we try to always take You to interesting places, and You seem to always be happy and cheerful.

Babaji: If you remember with great difficulty, you have to drag me. That too, if it is solitude, a trekking in the forest or a waterfall, that is all, not to market places ever.

Same questioner: No, no, no, we don’t take You there. We have no interest, we realize Baba is never going to go there. So we’re trying to find secluded, beautiful, remote spots away from people usually.

So Baba, yogis have no resolutions in their mind. How did You get on this call without a resolution? How do You function in the world?

Babaji: A fraction of an imagination, which will not actually go into resolving things. Means, suppose you write to me, “Would you like to do the Zoom?” “Yeah, I am available,” that is all. After that, I don’t keep thinking. For some reason, if the internet destabilizes or electricity goes, only I have to feel sorry for those people who would be anxiously waiting for Baba to appear. So that is all. Otherwise, there is no other resolution. If it doesn’t happen, we apologize, “Due to these technical reasons, I couldn’t come on.” Like that, there is no such resolution level of imagination there. For this, a little bit of conscious touch into the brain is good enough. You don’t have to resolve. A resolve means, I’ll try to tell; once you resolve, “It must happen, under any circumstances, at any cost. So that is the resolution. You resolve that it must happen, otherwise you’ll be restless. You’ll bang your head, “Oh, God, you’ll curse everyone. Why is it that the electricity has gone? I would like to kill that person.” This type of thing doesn’t happen if any desirous thing doesn’t come in.

Same questioner: You’re holding an imagination with a resolve. You’re holding an imagination, so you can’t be in the moment. But you know, really, when you’re completely in the moment, there is no resolution. There’s just the awareness of the present. Is that correct, Baba?

Babaji: Yeah, that is the final thing when you’re in the moment. So, no resolutions happen. You just ask a question and the answer comes. You want to meditate, I ask you to meditate. That’s it.

Same questioner:  But Baba, you know, when you make a resolution, the consciousness seems to automatically provide to fulfill that resolution. Let’s say you have a strong desire, you make a resolution, and then the means to fulfill that seem to spontaneously arise from consciousness within consciousness or within the mind.

Babaji: You see, for me, a minimum necessary imagination is required because I don’t have any such desires. Simply I come on to the zoom and teach meditation, or if I come to your country, like you invite, we come, we sit with people, conduct with retreats, answer the questions – that much is all the imagination, to do a Guru’s work. If at all a desire or a small imagination is there, to do the Guru’s work. So now, to do the Guru’s work, we need to sustain this body. Sustaining this body also we’ll keep it to the minimum. It won’t go out of way; at any cost, under any circumstances – no such thing. As long as it’s possible, we’ll try to do. So that’s what it is. So, there is no such resolution there. Means there is no binding, there is no stubbornness that it must happen.

Same questioner: All right, verse nine.

One attached to the world wishes to give it up in order to avoid its miseries, but that one who is free of all attachment is free from those miseries, even if he’s moving in the world.

And You comment,
“Often detachments are misunderstood as physically sacrificing the world. Seekers want to avoid the world to get rid of sorrows.

 A yogi is free from all attachments and does not feel miserable. Their attention is always on the Self. Only abiding in the Self gives Supreme Peace. Whatever the surroundings are, He remains in peace.”

Babaji: When I commented, I have tried to emphasize it’s in the mind; detachment or sacrifice has to happen in the mind only, not physically in this world. You don’t have to give up a home or any such thing, your way of life, nothing. You are not miserable because it doesn’t register in your mind as anything serious, reality, any such thing. Just like you would have seen a dream one day, in the night. If you can reason it out properly, think about the things, “After all it was only a dream, nothing real was there,” then you won’t become that miserable, you will remain unaffected. In the same way when a yogi would have experienced this entire universe also as an illusion, as a dream type of thing, so he will remain unaffected, he will not become miserable.

Same questioner: Baba, can you talk about that? How the world appears as a dream for the yogi? I mean, some people that are in the dream may think that the yogi has lost his mind or something. I guess he has.

Babaji: Definitely. That’s why during my teaching, so far I have only emphasized about the impermanence of this world, more than that I haven’t. Because it is not possible to demonstrate anything; through logic only a little bit of explanation can be done comparing to the dream only. But, finally, one has to go for an experience. It is an individual experience when you go deeper into meditation and achieve the samadhi. Before the samadhi, when the merger is happening, this experience comes, the mind, consciousness, now it would have become consciousness, it is no more mind. It would realize “Everything was created by me,” in different potencies, whatever it is. Presently as the mind, your potency may be 10. So when it was with its 100,000 potency, whatever it would have created and it would have created itself also into the creation. Just like in a dream also, you see so many characters, they are all your own consciousness because you are seeing, nobody else is seeing. Then you are seeing all those characters also from outside those bodies. Inside the body also you, outside the body also it is you only.

So like that you always get to see, like this, here also you will realize that when we are in the world, we were here because we considered it as a reality, we were too preoccupied, so much got sucked consciously. That is why that effect happened to us. Once that got detached, the mind got detached from the brain’s reflections, then the yogi experiences the disappearance of the world. Then when he comes out of samadhi it will appear, but he will be sure once and for all this was only the dream that we saw. The same thing it is, nothing is real. Because instead of going into these things to confuse people, I keep talking so that at least you understand it as impermanent. It is definitely an unreal imagination, an unreal dream that has happened.

So just all the examples are there in front of everyone. Your mind is there which has created the world. When you are awake also, your mind will be working with its own world, a world is there in your mind, but it is not real, it is there because of your own imaginations. And the dream is there, dream also is there because the mind goes into collusion with the brain and the brain decodifies and produces a picture. So, whatever the mind was habitual, that picture gets produced. When you get up you realize you were only dreaming, nothing was real actually, but during the time of dream you cannot realize that you are dreaming, it appears so solid and real.

So based on all these examples, if one can apply the wisdom, they can understand at least something is there in this world, if not hundred percent. So then you have to meditate and achieve that samadhi level of quietening the mind. Samadhi level means, samadhi, no need to imagine as something which has two horns or ten heads, nothing, it is your own mind getting more concentrated. When it is going towards samadhi level means, imagine the amount of concentration. In this world, an ordinary human being who can exercise the best focus and concentrated efforts to apply the brains comes to be known as a genius, and such people have achieved so much. So if this is the power of this mind, imagine when it goes and is merging with its highest consciousness, how much power it will acquire, but at that time the same detachment and the realization that everything is only a dream which will not give us any permanent peace, only the Self [will]. So it also realizes, for my existence I do not need anything else, I do not need this body also. So this has to be experienced by any individual finally to have a firm belief, means, firm experience, till then one has to take the logical example that the master tells like this. In scriptures also; in Yoga Vasistha He has explained so much, so many times of how the mind imagines and the things appears to be so. Hypnotizing effects have been explained in Yoga Vasistha with stories; all these things have been explained. So that is all that is possible that one can give an example and try to explain.

Same questioner: Because Baba, that’s a state of being, it’s not a state of mind, it’s not a thought.

Babaji: Exactly, it’s not born out of the mind’s imagination, it is beyond the mind’s imagination; state of being.

Same questioner:  So they will have to quiet the mind, silence the mind and then what’s left is your own consciousness of existing.

Babaji: Yeah, that is the first thing we insist. First job, your job is to achieve silencing of your mind, then the secrets of the mind are revealed automatically. You will be able to become aware, you will be able to see when you get connected to the consciousness of existence. Just now it is there, but you are scattered with other imaginations, so you are unable to 100 percent get connected to that consciousness of existence. That’s why this problem. Once you get connected, then you start going towards the higher consciousness.

Same questioner:  Thank you, Baba. Okay, verse 10.
True knowledge is that state where the imagined individual self, the ego no longer exists. One who holds even the thought of ‘I am liberated’ or a sense that ‘the body is mine’ still has ego and has not attained that.

Your comments.
“A Self-Realized yogi will never have any ego. A seeker who has ego about liberation or that he is liberated has not obtained true knowledge. The knowledge of such people is not complete. They can never be a yogi. Nowadays, overnight, people declare themselves to be incarnations of gods and goddesses. They use their wits and logic to prove themselves and belittle others. They are nowhere near the Ultimate Truth of Self-Realization. They are ignorant, egotistic and arrogant.”

Babaji: Yeah, nowhere near to the Ultimate Truth. That’s what I would have told.

Same questioner: So, Baba, the ego is that sense that you’re an individual and not a kind of a universal…

Babaji: Yeah. To be precise, God never thinks that God is God. I’m not using ‘he’ or ‘she’ so that people should not go on imagining in their own way. Divinity doesn’t imagine that divinity is divinity.

Same questioner: Baba, you use that term, ‘the knowledge’ of people is not complete. So, ‘the knowledge’ means Self-knowledge-awareness that you are consciousness of existence or the awareness that’s watching the consciousness of existence?

Babaji: One is, first knowledge into the mind that it is boundless. Another, final knowledge, you’re totally merged with that oneness. One single Self is there. You are neither the ocean nor the droplet. You are neither the divinity nor the devotee. You are neither the seeker nor the sought. So, all disappears, seer and seen, everything disappears, dualities disappear. And any imagination about ourselves also disappears.

Same questioner:  Baba, what’s that state called, that kind of in-between state where it’s given up all the imaginations except that it’s aware of itself, but it is aware of itself. Before it goes beyond that, what’s that state in-between state?

Babaji: Many people have used different terminologies ‘turiya avastha’ and ‘peaceful’. Any terminology has to be given, but that also amounts to an imagination. Means where there is no idea at all, no imagination at all is there. Not even the ‘I’ or any idea of existence, nothing is there.

Same questioner: Okay. Verse 11,
Even if the gods, Shiva, Vishnu, or Brahma become your teacher, until you forget everything, you cannot become settled in the true Self.

Your comments:
“The master recommends and advocates to the disciple, the Self is supreme. Even if other gods or goddesses come and advocate any other path, the disciple can never have Self-Realization. Mentally, one must get rid of all such imaginations of form and formlessness. Even all pervasive, omnipotent, omnipresent and achieve total silence of the mind. Then only, going introverted, the mind merges with the real Self by abandoning all cravings and remains in the Self with total contentment. As long as there is one iota of imagination in the mind, it will always revolve around an individually imagine self which does not exist. Only when the mind gives up everything and regains its form as Pure Consciousness will it then be possible for it to merge in the Self and establish itself there totally contented. This is a yogi who is liberated while alive and, after dropping the physical body, would become one with the Ultimate Truth.”

 Well, there is a lot there Baba, could you comment?

Babaji: Yeah, this is a very beautiful verse that we could comment like this. A Self-Realized status means which has no imaginations. Every individuality would have gone, the imagination of the ‘I’ would have gone. And this status is impossible to imagine by the application of intellectuality by anyone. You have to rise to that level only because it is neither something nor nothing. It is neither there, nor not there. It doesn’t belong to either of the dualities. No name and no explanation, nothing. It is not nothing also. It is neither something, nor nothing. So that type, it will be maddening, go on and on to try to understand. Just, that’s it. Because everything we have used in this world is to use a word either positively or negatively. Either it has to be there or it has to be not there, that type of understanding only is there for the world today in all other fields. People cannot even visualize or understand, become aware that there can be something beyond this. They can understand only either it has to be there or it is not there, that is all.

Same questioner:  Baba, your voice is breaking, can you hear me?

Babaji: Yeah, I can hear you, initially broken, but I could hear you again. Means I’m trying to tell, this status is beyond any dualities, you cannot tell that it is there, you cannot tell it is not there. What I was trying to tell, in this world, in all fields like science, technology, educational, art, anything, we are used to recognize one of the dualities. If it is not there, if it is not there, if it has to be there, it has to be there. If it is there, it is there. If we tell it is not there, then nothing is there. So only one can be understood by people. Like, matter and space is there. Space is understood as a void place, more than that, zero is absolute, absolute is zero, so it could be such illusionary effects that’s coming. And the matter is there and the space, space is there, but it is nothing. It is just a void place, that type of understanding is there. It is a substance, it is an existence, it holds the world – through that viewpoint nobody would like to see. So that’s what I’m trying to tell, the world has this type of knowledge only. So when we try to explain, it is beyond the dualities of existence and non-existence.

That’s when sometimes some people argue with me that Buddha has told of ‘anatman’, they misunderstand that He has told that there is no atman, but what he tried to tell was the truth. He tried to tell, “It is neither there, nor not there.” About the atman, when the question was asked to him, “Is it that we are all atman? He kept quiet and said, “You cannot tell that we are the atman, that is not the final. It is only an imagination to identify for sake of understanding and communication.” Always an imagination is done for sake of understanding and communication in that way. And that understanding also will be limited to that duality only. Beyond that, nobody can understand. So, He did not tell that there is no atman. He said, it is there and it is not there.

Same questioner: We lost Baba. So it is, but it’s beyond the intellect. Intellect would be “It’s there, it’s not there.” I think that’s what Baba was trying to explain.

Babaji: Yeah, can you hear me? Okay, I was talking about Buddha. Some people have tried to argue with me that Buddha has told there is no atman; ‘anatman’, He has spoken like that. He has not spoken the word of atman.” He did not say – I have explained to them – Buddha was Self-Realized, so He would never have had any one imagination of either it is there or not there. He would have tried to explain to people “It is neither atman nor not atman,” type. That means it is neither atman nor anatman. Means it is neither the atman that you are imagining nor the not-atman that anybody would imagine. This could be confusing. I will repeat the sentence. Neither the atman that you are imagining nor the not-atman that you might try to imagine. It is beyond any imaginations. So to catch hold of this, one needs to raise oneself to the understanding capability to that level. Until then the master waits actually. In olden days also, our great Self-Realized masters, they would test the student, they would train the student to gain that ability to understand when they would tell “It is beyond, it is neither this nor there.”

So like then only it will be understood. Not everybody will understand, otherwise it can be some other confusion. They will catch hold of one and they start arguing, “Babaji never spoke about any atman at all. He told “There is no atman.” I never told like that. Like the same thing, at one place when somebody asked “Does God exist?” They asked Buddha. Buddha kept quiet. He didn’t tell anything. Then that person asked “Does it mean that God does not exist?” Simply Buddha said, “When did I say so?” I didn’t tell that He doesn’t exist. I am not telling that He exists. So that state could be confusing, you see? For anybody, even if I answer like this, “Oh what this master is answering? It should be either there should be a God or there is no God.” That’s what is the atheist and theist. I tell, after a certain stage, both atheism and theism loses its significance, because both depend on a belief stem, very often making that belief system into an arrogant stubbornness of their own thinking, trying to belittle the other. Like this space is there. You want to call it “It is there,” it’s okay. You want to call “It is not there”. It’s okay. No problem. No conflict between us. Like that. People will not understand.

Same questioner: Baba, that’s kind of like what You were saying earlier about the no resolutions. You know, once you resolve “It’s there, it’s not there,” then that sticks in the mind; in either case, it’s a thought. Okay, Baba, we have a few more minutes.

Babaji: We have 15 more minutes if you want to allow others to ask, we can do that.

Same questioner: What would you like? Talk more or would you like to take questions?

Babaji: Or we can finish with this verse only.

Same questioner: We finished the verse, we can start on Chapter 17?

Babaji: Yeah that might be more enlightening to participants here. You and I discuss.

Same questioner: Okay, Baba, you know, there is Baba in the last sentence of chapter 16, that says, The yogi who is liberated while alive after dropping the physical body will become one with the Ultimate Truth. Well, wasn’t He already one with the Ultimate Truth?

Babaji: He is already one with the Ultimate Truth, but when the body is alive, I told, a little bit of consciousness is in touch with the brain, but He will remain in total liberated status only. That is how He is known as the ‘jivan mukta’, ‘liberated while alive’ – recognized like that in scriptures. While the body is still alive. Because as long as this body is alive, everybody will like to recognize as an individual personality only. ‘Babaji’; Babaji means this is the one. So that is explained like that, but for a yogi, nothing really matters. Already gone into the sleep, one day the body will perish, that’s all. So, soundly asleep type. But when this body goes, it means there is no rebirth. To explain that there is no rebirth, they have explained that as ‘videha mukti.’ When the body goes, the final, total oneness is there and no iota of anything is there else. So, to explain something like that, this status has been told in scriptures.

Same questioner:  Baba, somebody that hasn’t attained Self-Realization, you know, they can’t imagine that level of Supreme Peace. So they might think that they’re enjoying their body and they’re enjoying the world. They might look at that as something they don’t want to give up.

Babaji: Yeah, they don’t want to give up. That generates desires and attachments. So, when death happens to the physical body, the brain dies, but the mind spins with those attachments, and assumes, it continues watching the world. It assumes the next incarnation, it creates its own world. It can be anything. People generally believe when we die, if we are going to be reborn, we will be born in this world only, somewhere near our people. But it is all an illusion. There is no such thing that exists. Though we cannot prove it, that is the truth. When they are reborn, it could be separate, a new world that has got created for them by the resolutions and they are a separate personality. They would have forgotten everything. Such is the illusion effect that happens if the desires are there.

So a yogi becomes a yogi when all these desires are totally burned. That is the tapas; finished. It should not naturally arise at all, effortlessly also. So that is a jivan mukta. So He is a little bit in touch with the brain, means He doesn’t give in to further cravings, will not happen. The mind will not split and go into further thought after thought, thought after thought. So that’s what. You asked this question; this imagination would have come. I don’t know where it came from, the source also, simply the answer has come. Sometimes occasionally if I get to listen to the recording, I keep wondering, how wonderful a truth has come. But this is not limited to this, Ultimate Truth is much beyond. So only you have to merge, that is all. You cannot go on defining it forever and forever. There is no end. Like that.

Same questioner: So Baba, did the creation or bodies, humans and all of creation, did it come as a result of a desire? Or was it just a spontaneous, uncaused manifestation?

Babaji: Desires. Desires have spinned, shaped this, so that through such a thing you can enjoy looking for that peace. So you need some media. You see, without this media of the body, you cannot enjoy this world. Even when this body is there, in the mind you cannot touch anything at all. Still you enjoy only in the imagination. With the hand you touch food and you eat it. But in the mind you cannot touch any food and you cannot eat it at all. Suppose, if the mind can come out of the body for a while and it cannot touch even its own body also, it cannot touch any food even if it can see at all, first of all. Such is the wondrous thing. So getting attached consciously or not getting attached at all.

Same questioner: So Baba, is desire is something for a more evolved nervous system, because did creation begin with desire? It looks like the rudra just spontaneously comes out.

Babaji: In the beginning, we can try to understand, a spontaneous thing could have happened. Just like I tell, morning when you are fresh, your mind suddenly starts imagining without your knowledge also. Like that, suddenly it would have started. Then the desires started coming in, to further and further and further. In the beginning when you imagine, then the mind would imagine “If at all I have to imagine, let me imagine the best things.” Then it would slip into unhappiness, happiness, then it would ward off; “No, I don’t want this unhappiness. I want happiness.” Like that the desires would have arisen. That’s what I have explained; the first enormous amount of consciousness arose to create – spontaneously, let us assume. Then they became to be known as the concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. They are not personalities – concepts. The portion that which created and did not get involved into that creation is called as ‘Brahma’. The one who can create illusion but doesn’t get involved, trapped into the illusion. Thus He remained as a divine personality or concept. ‘Vishnu’, sustaining this widely, the created one, He became to be known as ‘protector’ and Vishnu also did not get involved with creation. He remained as a divine concept. Then ‘Shiva’, withdrawal back into the Self, your existence in total thoughtlessness state, ‘nishcheshtit’, without any cheshta.

So thus, these three figures are always worshiped as divine in the ancient Hindu philosophy also. But then the next generation, you see? Angels and demons. Their consciousness became involved into the needing of power, insecurity, wanting some enjoyment in the world. Their imaginations got converted into desires. So thus, the demons and angels started fighting. So that is fighting. Then next generation, next generation, as the mind… every time it got regenerated or reincarnated, its consciousness became a little scattered and diluted. So imagine now when it would have come to the level of the human mind, how diluted that is. So like that it is now, and it is trapped so much into desires. So now to get rid of all this, you have to go back to that level, means that is what is tapas. Your ability to keep quiet during all those times. One hour when you meditate, your ability to keep quiet. If 10 hours you are able to meditate in tapas, your ability to keep quiet. Whatever manifests, mental projection happens, anything happens or doesn’t happen, never get attracted to anything. Even if it is a divine figure also, don’t get attracted. Then you will go towards the Ultimate Truth.

Such is the process of desires arising to overcoming the same desires to go back again. This is somewhat how the desires would have got generated, generated; went out of control. And we thought “This desire only can fulfill my need of happiness.” So that imagination also came. Thus it gave rise to another desire. With the imagination, “This desire, if I get it fulfilled, then I will get back my peace.” But it didn’t happen. Then another desire arose. Like that on and on and we got trapped and involved.

Same questioner: Then samsara evolved and emerged.

Babaji: Samsara evolved.

Same questioner: So Baba, that is what I was looking for earlier, that imaginations become desires, they eventually develop into desires and then eventually we reach the desire where we want to know the Self and then that desire, if that’s strong enough and we dedicate ourselves to that, we can rediscover the truth.

Babaji: That is how hen out of egg, egg out of hen started happening. Desires created attachments and attachments created desires again, like that it went on and on. Because there was a desire, an attachment happened to that desire and then attachment gave another desire. So, that is how. Skillfully we have to take out one of them so that the process stops. That is the watching. Let the attachment appear before you, but you don’t get attached. Let a desire appear before you, you don’t get involved into the desire, just to watch. Got it all of you? just watch!

End of Session