0:00 Introduction from Babaji
0:59 When Babaji uses the term ‘oneness’ what does Babaji mean?
2:46 If everything is one then why does it appear that there is a separation?
3:42 Does a Yogi see themselves in everything?
5:00 Is one’s like experiencing all the characters of a dream within yourself
6:34 Seeing God and Guru in everything
8:10 The story of the elephant rider
13:50 Is not judging anything what faith is?
16:50 Is it our own negative imaginations that prevents faith?
20:40 Is it possible for there to be peace and harmony in this world?
23:31 The highest prayer ‘loka samasta sukhino bavantu’
23:39 How to find oneness when there are so many gods?
30:12 When we do this meditation do we need to do any other practices?
31:01 Should we avoid watching media to stop negative impressions?
31:40 Does time pass between death and rebirth?
33:32 How to discriminate between true and false?

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 121
Oneness
Recorded: 10 December 2022 with worldwide participants

Babaji Commences:

   All of you, remember, when you sit for meditation, just you have to watch in-between eyebrows.  The idea is to quieten the mind, achieving the silence of the mind.  Any thoughts or visions occur, if you just keep watching them and do not analyze, then slowly all those thoughts and visions dissolve.  That’s when the mind will become quiet.  Then only its attention will turn to itself.  That is how you can know yourself; your Self is important.  So, your job just to watch, do not analyze or make any judgments about thoughts or visions.

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Babaji, the topic for today is ‘Oneness.’  When Babaji uses the term Oneness, what does Babaji mean?

Babaji Maharaj:     The Ultimate Truth what we recognize as the real Self or Divinity is one single Self that exists as all-pervaded in this universe, and it is just one; no second of that is there.  So, that’s what we call as Oneness.  Also, if you look at the space, space is all-pervaded.  Matter may appear as different pieces according to its size and density, or anything that it is, but in all of them, inside and out, and what is simply spread is the space.  That is that Oneness.  So that Oneness is what we talk.  Also, in other words when we become Self-realized, though so many different personalities might appear, their nature also might appear different – that’s because of the brain’s reflections and the brain giving different samskaras, different acquired habits of the mind – but the substance that we call as Self is the same everywhere, in you, in me, and in all the participants, in all the people of this world, all creatures of this world.  It is just one.  So, that is what is we call as Oneness.

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  So, if everything is one, then why does it appear that there is a separation?  What causes this separation Babaji?

Babaji Maharaj:     As I told, the separation appears because of the brain, brain’s reflections and brain giving different definitions for itself; and catching the reflections of the brain, the first mind which is the Self has forgotten the real Self.  So, it has misidentified the ‘I’ as this body.  So, these bodies are all different.  So, that’s why the difference appears.  But if we dwell inside, we abide by the Self, that day we realize the same ‘I’ is everywhere simply.

Question:   So Babaji, for a yogi, there is no separation.  They see themselves in everything.  Is that correct?  Just like a mother sees themselves in the child?

Babaji Maharaj:    Yes, exactly.  It is the same thing.  The same Self is seen everywhere by a yogi.  He recognizes that Self.  Though the behavior of different people, different creatures might be different, but because of the body a tiger might behave in a different way, or a leopard might behave in a different way, elephant might behave in a different way, and different people might behave in different ways, because they are all victims of the reflections of their brain, in the body.  So, that is why it happens.  But a yogi has experienced the Self, and he gets to see the same Self everywhere.  Though he gets to see as a witness different behaviors of people, he knows that it is the same Self which is behaving in different way.  

Question:   Babaji is that similar to the – when you have a dream and all the characters in the dream appear, but actually those characters simply come from our own imagination?   Is that similar?

Babaji Maharaj:     Yeah, you see, when you dream, and also in your mind, both, so many characters and stories are all there.  For all the stories and the characters that are there, your mind is the one single Self.  It is the pure consciousness which is inside that, and it is only behaving as different, but it is the same thing.  In the same way, in dream also, when you are dreaming, everything is within yourself.  There is no difference.  Though the different characters might appear, a different story might appear; in the story different creatures or characters, whoever comes in the dream, they might be behaving in different ways.  So, one might be behaving like a servant, another might be a master; one might be behaving like a good, another like a bad, but it is all the same.  In the same Self, the simple story is being played.  So thus, it is the same thing.  One single Self is there, but so many characters, so many behaviors all appear which is not true. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  And Babaji sometimes talks about seeing the God and Guru in everything.  So any character, even if it might be a troublesome person, you visualize everything as the Guru, as testing you or helping you.   Would Babaji talk about that aspect?

Babaji Maharaj:     Yeah, I have told in my talks,  suppose they were bad people who came into our life, some wicked guys came; they behaved in such a wicked way or a bad way, but yet we recognize the Guru there.  It is the same Guru perhaps who wanted to teach us some lesson, make us more strong like a commando.  It was like a training for us.  Throughout the life so many…   Like today, this body’s age is sixty-eight years, but all these years whatever we have seen since childhood, or since younger days, though it might have appeared as a bad character, a bad person, or a wicked person even, but it was all our own Guru who sent them to train us as a better person, to become more matured, to become more perfect in abiding in the Self.  So, that’s what; we just saw only the Guru everywhere.  “It is the Guru who is behaving, maybe there is some reason.”  So, that’s what finally we settle down at peace.

Question:   Could Babaji also talk about the story of the elephant rider?  When we see God in everything, but we don’t choose where to see God?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, when the Master was teaching God is everywhere, that didn’t mean that it will be the same behavior at every place.  So, like when the student was sitting on the river bank, he saw an elephant coming.  The elephant rider was shouting “Hey, give way, give way.  Don’t stand in the way.”  He (student) thinks if this elephant is Narayana or God, so it should not be troubling me, but it didn’t happen.  So, the elephant came and lifted that person and threw him away.  He got bruised and fractured all over.  Bandaged he comes to the Master, “Master, master you told that Narayana, God is everywhere but how can God harm me?”  He said “God didn’t want to harm that’s why as the rider on the elephant he was shouting “Give way!”  He actually did not want, but you were adamant.  You did not listen to God.  You tried to see God only in the elephant, and forgot there is God in the elephant rider also.”  So that is what we do.  

By theory, this non-duality or the Oneness cannot be practiced.  It’s not easy.  We try to catch hold of one and forget the other.  So, this is what happens.  When we try to do wrong thing, we try to justify ourselves “Oh, God made me to do it.”  But when somebody slaps us then we forget that God is only slapping us.  So, this is what happens.  So, that’s how the mind becomes silent for a yogi.  It never really analyzes or makes any judgment; it never curses anybody.  If at all we talk something, it is for the benefit of anybody who would have behaved very badly with us at that moment, so that they don’t acquire karmas.  Otherwise, we are unaffected.  Nothing happens there.  Some people come as students for us, they serve very dedicatedly for a long time, and some people come, they serve for some time then they go away, and some simply go away. Some simply don’t go away, some simply accuse us and try to trouble us, try to threaten us, and then go away.  So, it is all the same drama that is happening.  If you are acting in a drama, if somebody is threatening you, you won’t be really scared.  You know it is only a drama that is happening.  In the same way, a yogi would see that Divinity all-pervaded.  The one who has betrayed and gone also is the Divine only, to teach us some lesson, maybe to benefit something for us.  So, like that something is always good, nothing is bad.  If one door closes another door opens.  It is the Divine who keeps playing.  He takes out this chair and brings another chair and puts it for us.  Like that finally we have to recognize the Divine.  That comes by practice of meditation.  Long time meditation only can give this attitude or this acquired habit in the consciousness when we are able to experience that truth everywhere.  Like I have told, when you enter a hall or any such place, the space in there seldom attracts your attention; the pillar, a fan, a wall, people, so many things will attract you.  They all appear to be different, different people.  Different people, different objects and have their own characters.  If you hit your head onto the wall, the wall will break your head.  So, like that it happens.  

So, everything has its own character.  If a tiger comes, if you don’t consider the tiger at that moment as tiger, and just see, want to see God, so you have to allow whatever God wants to do.  If God wants to eat your body let it happen.  Either that or you learn to run away from there.  So, like that.  So, this thing can come only by a long practice of meditation, not by reading theories or not by listening to lectures from the Masters or anybody like that.  So, one has to be very carefully in practicing.  Advaita is there, the Oneness is there, even a yogi’s behavior also can be strange, because he will be behaving like an ordinary person only, watching anything, eating anything, talking anything, any topic, sometimes joking, humorous, sometimes very serious, pulling up, sometimes using some wrong word also.  So, it can be anything.  So, you don’t judge a yogi by the behavior of his body or his behavior in this world.  His knowledge, that knowledge and wisdom is much more important.  That’s what, like in our Guru, Swamiji, we always saw that one.  Whatever He behaved, that awareness always came to us; “Oh He is one with the Ultimate Truth.  He is the Master.  He has that knowledge and wisdom which we need.  We also need to do tapas, then only we can realize how He remains as a yogi.”

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  So, Babaji talks about not judging this world or judging the Guru, or judging anything.  Is that what faith is, Babaji, because we if we’re not Self-realized, we need that faith to keep going and the faith not to judge also?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you know, your faith is very important.  More than the Master’s personality or body, your faith is the most important.  Say there is one big stone; we worship it as Shivalingam, symbolizing the Divinity that is all-pervaded and form and the formlessness.  We worship that as Lord Shiva.  Otherwise, for another person who may not be able to develop faith, it is only a stone that is made to stand there.  He might think this is only a stone.  But nobody knows whether it is a stone or what it is also.  It appears to be stone because you recognize it as stone.  You see others also recognizing it as stone.  Simply, because everybody is recognizing it as stone, not necessary (that it is).  Fifty thousand people might be trying to recognize a person as Self-realized, but it is not necessary that person should be Self-realized just because fifty thousand people recognized.  All the fifty thousand people may not know anything about that person and the criteria for God.  What is the criteria for God?  That was given by the great sages who composed the Gayatri Mantra as if we adopt that remembrance of that Divinity in our minds, our mind’s unhappiness and sins will be washed away once for all.  We will have that Supreme Peace, and the purity in our own consciousness.  For that purpose, that was recognized as the Divine.  It is divine in nature because it can give us happiness, peace and purification of the heart.  All the corrupted things of the mind will disappear.  So, this is what is the criteria.  Not simply that you can produce ten hundred thousand dollars, and then you don’t become God just by doing so.  So, that is what it is.  We have to understand the criteria, then the faith comes.  So, if there is faith, there is the Divine and the manifestation is all there.  Simply the difference is in manifestation.  In a stone, if you see it as a stone the manifestation doesn’t appear, but if you bring in your bhava, the Divinity, and if you try to see that God, worship, then you will see that glow of the Divinity there.  

Question:   So, Babaji the thing is preventing this faith, is that our negative imaginations? That we believe our brain reflections too much?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you see, for more than eighteen years you consider a person as Self-realized and you serve and you praise, you do everything.  Suddenly, one day, suddenly you declare that he is not Self-realized, “My heart has shifted.”  What is that meaning?  It is all the mind.  Their mind has changed.  Until now their mind was recognizing in a different way.  Today, suddenly it said something else, for some other reason, means their criteria, their agenda was totally different.  That’s what it means.  Then these things also change in a person.  But simply because one person wants to certify and take away that certification back, one doesn’t become Self-realized or one doesn’t lose the Self-realization.  These things do not depend on one person’s or ten persons’ or a hundred thousand persons’ comments or their faith or something.  So, whatever faith they have, the things appear to them in that way, and either they gain or they lose.  

It is the imagination.  When you are imagining, means you are creative.  The highest that you can create is the Divinity, about the existence.  Otherwise, nobody knows what it is.  That is where the sages said ‘Tattva’. When they realized,  they didn’t call it as Divine first; first, they called it as Tattva, That.  Such an awesome thing, That.  Slowly, they imagined it as the Divine.  This is divine in nature because it can give us happiness and wash away all our sins, our corrupted things.  So, that is how they imagined, and it appears so.  For some other person it may not appear so.  They may not recognize in that way because their culture will be like that.  Say, whether through spirituality or through science, anybody who realizes a truth, a certain truth and what they are going to call that truth, how they are going to address or recognize – that depends on their culture and the language that is prevailing amongst themselves, terminologies that they will use.  Science will use its own terminologies, spirituality has used its own terminology, the great sages used their own terminology, but the truth is the same.  When they discussed, they gave their opinions, “This is what it is.  It is all-pervaded.  It is the Oneness.  It is no second.  It has no other entity other than that truth.  And it is not also in two pieces.”  

Like jokingly, earlier years in my talks I used to tell, “Luckily there is only one God.  If there were several Gods they would have been fighting for supremacy and for a throne which does not exist.”  The Divinity, the space that is all-pervaded does not need any throne for it to sit.  It simply exists in itself.  See the wonder.  You don’t have to create any kingdom for this Divinity or you don’t have to put any throne.  You don’t have to give any title.  It simply exists, all-pervaded.  That’s all.  And that is the Divine we recognize.  That is that Oneness we talk all the time.  This comes when you practice meditation.

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  Babaji, is it possible for this world as we see it, with all the conflicts, with everyone has different beliefs, can there be peace and harmony eventually in this world?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, if everybody practices the purification of their mind  – instead of meditation I’m using this language. Everybody needs to follow some exercise to purify their own mind, they should get rid of the corruption of selfishness, narrow-mindedness, ignorance, all these things we need to overcome.  Then when they gain that real knowledge and wisdom, then the conflict can end.  Their purification, their consciousness becomes totally pure, then conflicts can come to an end when we realize we all belong to one space.  To remember the old example, I used to give always – from a small town you will tell your house number and street name, then you go out of the town you belong to the town, then you belong to the state, then you belong to that country, then you belong to the world, then you belong to planet Earth.  Like that your consciousness expands.  You belong to a huge, large area now.  When you realize you belong to the space, ultimately.  You are in the space.  We are on the earth and that earth is in the space.  When we all belong to the space, we are one.  How can we be different?  How can there be any enmity?  But if people become selfish, narrow-minded, then all conflicts arise.  If we all realize we all belong to one single space, so we are all brothers, or we all belong to one place, we will see that oneness, then all conflicts can come to an end.  This is what since time immemorial, time to time whenever the Self-realized Masters came, they have always advised humanity to live in peace, allow others to live in peace, and see that Oneness of the Divinity.  

Different terminologies different languages, they have always advocated.  But humans haven’t been able to give up selfishness and narrow-mindedness.  Even they come to Ashram, they go to temples, they go to places of worship, there also they bring their mind.  They don’t want to give up that narrow-mindedness.  That’s what they have to give up.  So, then world will have peace.  It will be such a beautiful place.  So much of beautiful resources have been given for us to live happily.

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  Could Babaji also talk about the prayer lokah samastha sukino bhavantu which is considered the highest prayer?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, since childhood we were taught lokah samastha sukhino bhavantu, means so many worlds might be there, we don’t know how many worlds the Divine has created or goes on creating, but may all beings in all the worlds be happy, then our mind becomes purified.  When we don’t think the bad things or bad people always, then we can avoid our own minds becoming corrupted.  Because our mind will spin and keeps imagining, it becomes the same corrupted thing.  We don’t have to pray to God, “God only help me please.  I don’t want to bother about other people.”  It is the wrong thing; it is not a good thing.  So, that’s what also as a moral story we had a chapter in our childhood schools and there was an old lady who was living in a village with her hen.  So, every morning the hen used to crow and the people used to get up and become active in their daily activities.  Once, for some reason that old lady become annoyed with the villagers.  She said “I am going to take away my hen – I will see how morning will happen in this village.  Nobody will be able to get up or do any active work.”  She took the hen and went away from that village; for about five, six months she was away.  After six months, suddenly one day she thought, “Let me go and see that village, how it is fairing, whether anybody is able to get up or it is only darkness, no sunrise has happened at all”.  She came with her hen and she saw to her surprise it was daylight, everybody is working and everybody is active and busy.  Some eating, some working in the agricultural fields.  She asked one person, “Hey how did the sun rise in this village?  I had taken away my hen.”   He hits his head “Oh lady you are so stupid.  The sunrise was not happening because of your hen or your hen crowing.  It was always happening.  Simply your hen was crowing.  Listening to that sound everybody used to get up.  When it went away, they started practicing to get up on their own without the sound of the crow. So never think that sunrise is happening because of your hen’s crowing.”  So, that’s what is the lesson, that moral lesson that we have to learn from all these things.  The Oneness, the Divinity is there, and big things are happening.  We have nothing to do.  Whatever we imagine, we start thinking that is the truth and we try to blame the other things which is not our knowledge.  So, actually knowledge is wide and boundless.  

That’s what, the sages recognize this Oneness is also boundless.  You cannot be binding that truth.  This is what you have to realize.  So, then you give up your selfishness and then all conflicts can come to an end.  Everybody can have peace.  You should not have the arrogance that “The world is being run because of me.”  No.  Sun rises and the moon comes and goes.  Suddenly, one person starts telling “O while doing puja, I ask the sun to stop there for some time and he stopped; and people, fifty, hundred people give a big clapping.”  If you are ready to get fooled, there are people ready to fool you.  So, that’s what happened.  But the truth is totally different, the Oneness and the things that are happening.  Once a person realizes the truth, he becomes really humble.  We know that it is not we who are doing; we just become quiet and all our judgments come to an end.

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.  Babaji, I want to know, in my mind there are so many gods, like there are Hanuman, Krishna and Shivji and Parvatiji and Lakshmiji, Narayanji, and so many gods are there.  Jesus Christ is there, Allah is there.  And then myself is there.  So, how to find Oneness?  Meditation is the only thing?  Please answer on this.

Babaji Maharaj:   God is one, but many names and many forms.  He has manifested for the sake of the devotees.  That is all.  There is no difference.  They are all the same.  Just like you are a mother to your son, you are a wife to your husband, but you are that one same.  It is the Oneness there.  In the same way one space is there.  Though we might tell “This is my space, this is my space;” we keep fighting, but that space is one.  Can you take a knife and cut the space into a few pieces, just like you cut the cake?  You cannot do that one.  So, that is how you recognize, you understand.  Also you must meditate so thoroughly this knowledge and wisdom sits in your consciousness.  Got it?  It’s only one God.  You can worship in any form or formlessness.  That is the greatness of our sanatana dharma, our religion also.

Question:   Can You talk a little bit about ishta, ishta dev?

Babaji Maharaj:   It is your choice.  You can choose any form and tell, “This is the form I like.”  But for that you must not become egoistic that “My form is the only greatest thing, only God, not your form.”  Suppose you like Hanuman, you tell that “Hanuman is the only God.  I don’t like Lord Shiva.”  That is ignorance and stupidness.  So, you must not do that one.  “I like God in the form of Hanuman” is the right way to recognize.  So, any other person believing in any other form also is believing the same God.  That’s why our Guru, Shivabalayogi also told, “You can believe God in any form or any formlessness, but do not condemn others’ beliefs.”  It is the Oneness.

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  I have two small questions.  Like in yoga system, in Indian yogic system, there are many types of yoga – pranayama, bandhas, kriya yoga, and so this, Your beautiful technique, it’s very powerful.  So, when we do this technique, so we do not need to do other pranayamas and bandhas, hatha yoga, etc.?   This technique is good enough?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, this technique is very good enough for Self-realization, for everything because it looks after everything.  If you just need to do a little pranayama so that the smooth inhale and exhale keeps happening during meditation, you can do for five minutes.  You can do some pranayama then go for this meditation.  No other things are necessary.

Same Questioner:   Babaji, second small question is when we watch TV and all these movies and newspapers, lots of negative impressions come upon the mind.  So, one who is on the path, should he completely stop watching movies and sports and cricket, etc., because we are receiving negative impressions.  So, how much detrimental it is on the spiritual path?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, if it is troubling, it is better not to watch and try to devote that time for meditation so that you don’t have to tell “I didn’t get time to meditate.”  So, instead you meditate until your mind becomes totally purified.

Same Questioner:   Thank You Babaji.

Question:   Nice to see You Babaji.  My question is about when we enter this life, we are given the time to better our life and then death comes and we drop our body.  So, when we go to this next life, coming back to this world, is there as well a time passing, or is that of one side the same as the rebirth of the other side?  Can You explain this to me please?

Babaji Maharaj:   When death happens, brain dies but the mind gets detached from the brain.  Instantly it assumes the next birth.  It goes, assumes the next body also.  It would have forgotten the previous life, everything, because the brain is dead.  With the brain, memory is always lost.  So that’s what happens.  Instantly, there’s no time limit. It’s illusion; you cannot calculate the time, because in this life you would visualize the time and space according to the calculation of this life – that need not be the same.  If it is forty in this life, it can be four thousand in the next life.  Something like that, example, simply.  So, it can be totally different.  So, your mind, your consciousness spins and assumes the next birth; it visualizes the next birth. Intensity of thoughts becomes the reason for the next life.  That’s how it happens.  

Same Questioner:   This is instantly.  So, between death and rebirth, this is instant, that is one happening.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, yes.

Same Questioner:   I understand.  Thank You.

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  I have a question.  Babaji says that we should not judge anything that happens in our life, good or bad, but then how as ordinary people can we discriminate between truth and false? Because sometimes it can be very close to each other.  For example, You mentioned the fact that the behavior of a Guru can be very different from a moment to another and we cannot judge from the outside behavior.  So, how do we truly know that someone is truthful?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, one thing about the Master.  You do the sadhana advised by the Master.  Don’t go too close to the Master because then you might misunderstand the Master.  This is one thing with the Master.  Other than that, about judgments – you see, discrimination is different, judgment is different.  Why I am talking this?  You can discriminate to live in this world.  You will have to learn to discriminate what is good and what is bad, what is real and what is unreal, but if you make a judgment, that is firmly done which is absorbed as an imprint by the mind; that will trouble you always.  Your mind can become corrupted and starts thinking in that way.  For that reason, we advise not to make a judgment firmly.  A judgment happens firmly; “This is it, this is a foe, this is a friend.”  But you can discriminate.  If you feel that the person is not good for you, you can leave the company and go somewhere else of your choice.  It is yours.  Like that, in this world you have to recognize good and bad with discrimination, but take care that your mind does not make a firm judgment, keep thinking of the bad person all the time, then your mind also will become bad and corrupted.  That’s what we alerted.

End of Questions and Answers

End of Session