00:00 What is the basic theme of the Guru Gita on which Babaji has written a commentary?
04:42 The guru – disciple relationship seems very unique to the spiritual tradition in India.
15:17 The word ‘disciple’ comes from ‘discipline’ – what is that discipline?
18:47 Is there a difference between a devotee and a disciple?
22:41 Babaji has said the Guru is like a surgeon and the disciple must give authorization to operate on him/her. Why must that operation be painful?
37:23 Can a Guru who is Self-Realized take on a disciple’s karma?
43:11 Babaji has mentioned He is the ‘silent killer’; can Babaji explain this please?
44:49 Can the Guru enable the disciple to obtain mukti when they drop the body so they don’t have to do tapas in this life?
47:48 What is the significance of celebrating the physical form of Swamiji when Babaji and Swamiji are one and the same, that all-pervading truth?
51:05 What are the different dimensions that the soul goes to?
52:47 Is the guru – disciple relationship carried on many lifetimes, and if so, if the Guru drops the body and there is no next incarnation, how does that carry on?
54:42 Are there any pitfalls in following a different Guru such as Babaji after my Guru has dropped the physical body?
58:58 Should I switch techniques to what Babaji recommends?
1:00:24 Would it be advisable in spite of my old age to come to the retreat in India with Babaji?
1:02:07 A person has advised that I get in touch with my feelings to unblock them, but can Babaji give advice on this?
1:05:25 Babaji, even though we have not met physically, can You still be my Guru?
1:06:31 Even if I have not served Babaji?
1:07:09 Is it the true feelings that one has that makes the guru – disciple relationship?

Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.237
Guru-Disciple
You tube Link: https://youtu.be/gSFcO52DTAs   
Recorded: 05 July 2025

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   I am not sure if everybody is aware, perhaps some new people in the group might not be aware that Babaji has written a commentary on the Guru Gita,  Guru Charanambujam.  Could Baba first of all talk about if there’s any central points in that text that stand out, please?

Babaji Maharaj:   This Guru Gita is one of the ancient scriptures.  Supposed to have been the conversation between Lord Shiva and His consort Goddess Parvathi, wherein Lord Shiva explains the essence of a Self-Realized Guru and the Guru-disciple’s relationship, why reverence to the Guru is recommended, and what is the highest truth of Self-knowledge.  So, these types of things have been discussed in this book.  Years ago, when devotees requested me, whatever Swamiji had taught me and in my tapas experiences, so that is what is in the commentary that I have written.  I have tried to simplify the language.  Instead of using the scriptural languages, I have used the ‘mind,’ ‘consciousness,’ ‘Self,’, these types of things, so that it’s easily understandable for the present-day generations also.  I have simplified the language and commented on every shloka that is written; it is very beautiful. 

The central point is the knowledge of the Self, how we exist as the immortal soul beyond the birth and death of the physical body, that we are not going to become extinct when the body dies.  We will always be there as the soul.  But provided, we can silence our minds.  Because the mind is preoccupied with its own imaginations, which also becomes the reason for reincarnations.  Again and again, one is born.  When the brain dies, the mind which is holding all impressions, it forms the intensity of thoughts and spins over.  So, based on the acquired habits of the mind which forms the attitude of a mind, it assumes next birth also. 

So, one human birth is like an edge; it’s like the snake and ladder.  You can elevate yourself on the ladder or go down the snake also.  So, we have a well-developed brain, know how to discriminate the real and unreal, good and bad, what is permanent and impermanent.  Like, spirituality teaches us, the entire universe, including our own physical body is impermanent.  So, thus, we cannot depend for our peace and happiness permanently on any of the universe.  But if we go back to the real, that is the permanent in nature, that is the Self, then we can obtain a permanent Supreme Peace also, along with the knowledge awareness of the Self. 

So, this was what the basic theme of Swamiji’s teachings also, to ‘meditate and know yourself’; always He taught this one.  So apart from Yoga Vashistha, He used to talk about this Guru Gita also.  To me He told many times, how a Guru-disciple relationship is important; having reverence to the Master is so important.  Like, in the preface I have written; first time we heard about the Guru was from my mother’s mouth when I was a small kid.  She used to tell, “Even if God gets annoyed with you, the Guru can protect you.  But if the Guru gets annoyed, no God can protect you.”  So, we were brought up in our culture so beautifully, giving such an importance to the Guru, that too if the Guru is a Self-Realized Master, is equivalent to the Divine.  Even in Yoga Vashistha, Vashistha tells, “If a person is Self-Realized, He is worthy of worshipping.”  Because the mind is no more there.  The individual imagined self has gone and it is merged with the Ultimate Truth.  That’s what is always there – awareness.  So that is the basic theme of this scripture also, on which I have written commentary. 

Question:   Thank You, Baba.  Baba, that relationship of Guru and disciple seems very central to the spiritual tradition in India.  That’s not the case everywhere around the world.  It seems a very unique thing. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Even if I had to tell, so from childhood we were taught, it has to be one doctor, one lawyer and one Guru.  It is very significant, if we try to know.  So, if you go to one doctor, means a physician, he will know the history of your body very well; for years if he is attending to you, and he can guide you very well what suits your systems; like that.  In the same way, a lawyer also knows what is your strength and weakness and he will be able to guide and take you properly.  And now the Guru.  Guru knows about you and He will be the right guide,  whatever He guides you on the right path.  Like Swamiji and Ramana Maharishi, They all have said, knowingly or unknowingly, everybody is looking for peace, happiness and enjoyment only.  Whatever we want to do, we want to go to a shopping mall or to a saint, to an ashram or to anywhere, we want to be happy.  If we are not going to gain happiness, we would not like to do it.  But this happiness – if the path is not right, it will always be elusive.  The path needs to be right. 

That’s what a Guru guides there.  Like Swamiji used to tell, “A person is walking on the road.  He might develop arrogance.  “I’m already walking on the road and I know the road.  Nobody need to tell me.”  But suddenly if he comes to a circle from where a road goes to East, a road goes to West and South, then he is confused, “What to do, which path should I take?”  That’s where the Guru comes in.  The Guru is the one who knows which path you need to take and He will guide you.  “You go like this, then you will find the truth, then you will find peace within yourself.”  That’s what is a Guru, as a torch-bearer.  That’s the importance of the Guru.”  So, like Swamiji always used to tell also, “Like a just born baby needs its mother.”  In the beginning, that is why in Indian culture, “Maata, Pita, Gurur Devo bhava.”  Mother is the first Guru, then the father, then comes the Guru’s place and then God.  Like that it is taught for us.  It’s part of our life always.  So, Guru is such an important thing. 

And knowledge and wisdom has been given such importance.  That is the real power.  The Guru need not give us lottery tickets or gold or any such thing.  But He gives us peace and vibrations.  He gives us that knowledge of the Self that nobody can give.  For that only we need to have reverence.  So, even today, we try to fondly remember the teachers that we came across during our school journey, academic journey, of the primary school, middle school, high school, all.  The beautiful moral values they taught us, along with the academic studies.  Today’s generations, we do not know.  But they used to talk about the Ramayana, Mahabharata stories in leisure times and tell us the moral values of what it is.  So, like that, the Guru‘s relationship; today also we fondly remember them.  How beautifully they taught the life’s values. 

Like often you all would have heard, I keep telling, my primary school teacher used to tell, “If anything happens in your life, do not get scared.  Think after all my head is going to be cut.”  Means, it has great meaning, you see?  You don’t have to die.  Nobody will cut your head.  But you will gain that inner strength.  That was the motto.  Swamiji also taught “To do or die.”  He used to tell, a soldier going to the battlefield will never have any confusion.  He knows either he will do it or he will die.  Both are equally acceptable.  So, thus, when he goes, he is not at all confused.  The life on this earth also is challenging; it’s like a war zone, a battlefield for us.  So, we should try.  We should put an effort.  When we put an effort, we need to remain focused in the present.  That’s very important.  That only can bring miracles in our life; when we put efforts, when we are disciplined!  That’s what Swamiji used to teach us. 

See, for so many, twenty years, I remained disciplined at His lotus feet.  We never got attracted to the world or anywhere else.  Ashram was our abode.  And everything was here only for us.  This was Mount Kailas, Badrinath, Kedarnadh, anything pilgrimage center for us was our Guru’s abode.  We didn’t see the outside world much at all.  We never got exposed.  So, we remained disciplined.  Our mind also remained non-violent and very disciplined.  And meditation became so easy.  Twenty years we meditated whenever we had time, six to seven hours.  And the last five years, doing tapas became so handy and easy for us.  Because we never got exposed to the outside world.  That is the essence of discipline.  This discipline comes when you have reverence to the Guru.  Swamiji used to tell, “If you don’t have respect to the Guru, human beings are likely to become casual.” 

When I give a teaching, all the students sitting here – today, they are more than 140 here in this Zoom session, and some are sitting with me in the physical also – when I teach, if they are not serious, they will take things casual; it won’t enter their head at all what I’m going to teach, what the answers I’m going to give for your questions.  That is why it is necessary.  If they have respect for me, their minds also will be here.  With apt attention, they will listen to me.  That’s what Ashtavakra wanted from Raja Janaka, “You have to pay apt attention.”  Lord Yama also told Nachiketa, “One time I’m going to narrate.  And it’s your duty to pay apt attention.  Do not ask me questions.  If you lose your concentration, I’m not responsible.”  That’s what a Guru wants.  That can be coming from the disciple to the Guru if he has that reverence to the Master. 

We always had reverence to the Master.  Even today, I tell, if I want to keep sleeping the whole day, there is nobody to scold me.  The Guru is not physically there around, but His voice and the sandal sounds that He used to make and wake me up in this very hall always rings in my ears – even today at 3.30, and it makes us to get up and get back into our job, doing yoga, attending to e-mails, and everything, puja, everything we start doing.  That discipline came to us by remaining with the Guru and having that reverence; even today that fear is there, that reverence, “O, it’s my Guru.  He is there always watching us from the heart.”  So that enables us to remain disciplined. 

That’s why Guru-disciple’s relationship is so important.  Having reverence to the Master is so important, then you pay attention, then you will be serious in your practice every day.  Otherwise, today, people sometimes consider a Guru as a marketing tool.  Today they come for two days to one Guru, “O, it’s not happening, meditation.  Let me go to another Guru and try, if he can give me just like an instant coffee.”  It doesn’t happen; they keep going Guru after Guru, Guru after Guru, and they don’t achieve anything at all.  Swamiji was our Guru and He is our Guru always; we could achieve only by remaining totally devoted to Him.  That’s what happens.  So, people keep changing the Guru just like a jacket, they keep changing every day.  So, this happens.  So those people don’t reach anywhere.  They are not serious in their sadhana.  They are not serious into learning anything.  This is what happens. 

See, now, we have been holding these Zoom classes for several years now since COVID times.  But sometimes due to travels, I am unable to come online for a week, for two weeks, sometimes a few weeks also.  But if people have had respect to me, that reverence, they will be waiting anxiously, “O, when will Babaji come online again?  It is so precious.”  As you told, they will understand the preciousness, “It’s not easily available.  Babaji is busy, He is traveling everywhere, other parts of the world.  When He comes, that Saturday is so precious, we cannot afford to lose it.  We must set a priority.  We must be there for that class.  Once we lose this Saturday, one more week is gone.” 

So, it becomes so precious, one Saturday.  So, then they are ready to set a priority.  If they set a priority, they have time.  Otherwise, they can give hundred excuses, “O, I don’t have time this week to participate in Zoom.  I have to attend a wedding.  I have to go to a relative.  I have to go to that responsibility.”  What priority that we tell?  That’s what Swamiji used to tell, “If you need to go to a relative’s wedding, try to give an excuse.  “Today I have to go for a meditation class with my Master.  Sorry, I cannot come to wedding.”  Will anybody do it?  They won’t do it.  Because they are worried.  “The relatives will be upset if we don’t attend to their weddings.”  So, that becomes such a priority.  So, how can the meditation come, Swamiji used to ask.  So, they have to set a priority, is important.  We must need it!  We know that one!  So, this is what is the Guru-disciple’s relationship; basic things. 

Question:   Thank You, Baba.  Babaji, the word ‘disciple’ is derived from the root word of ‘discipline’.  And Sanskrit‘shisya’ is also rooted in that idea of discipline.  What is that discipline?

Babaji Maharaj:   So, that’s what we have been talking.  The Guru is the one who keeps the disciple into a certain discipline of moral values, spiritual values and the sadhana.  That is time, setting a priority is needed.  That’s what I keep talking.  I try to teach three mantras, dedication, discipline and patience.  This is what enables a person to remain disciplined.  So that is a real disciple.  That’s why Swamiji used to tell, “Try to become a worthy disciple first.  Becoming a Guru comes afterwards.  Don’t be in a rush to become a Guru yourself.  Try to be a good worthy disciple is important.”  So, then you will be disciplined.  Without the discipline, I wouldn’t have been where I am today.  That is the Guru‘s grace.  Today the whole world is ready to honor us.  We travel to America, Australia, everywhere we travel we have respect by people.  People are ready to attend our classes, they come running.  They wait; “Is Babaji coming?”, like that.  So, this happens by the grace of the Guru.  The discipline that He taught. 

He used to be very irritated.  He wouldn’t allow us to go anywhere.  Only to see my mother He would allow, “Because that is very precious”, He used to tell.  “Seeing a mother is important.  Go and spend some time.  And before the evening meditation time you must come back to Ashram.”  While in Bangalore also He used to order us like that one.  “Morning, go spend some time with the mother.  Come back to the Ashram.  Rest of any relatives, siblings, anybody, they can come to Ashram in the evening and meet you.  You don’t have to go to them.”  Like that He used to teach.  So that discipline He taught us.  So that discipline always helped me to do the sadhana.  We had time to meditate.  I feel surprised when people tell “I don’t find time to meditate.”  Why not?  You have twenty-four hours, Swamiji used to tell.  You just meditate for one hour.  You have other twenty-three hours for your livelihood, earning your salaries or your business, anything for your recreation, sleeping resting; twenty-three hours are there.  That is the maximum.  You just have to take out not even 10 percent.  Just one hour to practice meditation and that can take care of you to keep you balanced mentally, physically between the worldly life and the spiritual life; like that He used to tell. 

So, that is what the disciple means.  That’s how a Guru can keep the disciple into discipline.  So, the one who keeps you into discipline is the Guru. Who dispels the darkness of ignorance is the Guru.  That is the disciple and the Guru.  Guru is the one who disciplines you.  The disciple is the one who remains in discipline at the lotus feet of the Guru.  He is the right disciple. 

Question:   Thank You, Baba.  Is there a difference between a devotee and a disciple?

Babaji Maharaj:   Some people might try to do it to make it that a disciple is different.  In fact, there is no such difference.  A disciple gives a particular meaning that you are the disciple of such and such Guru.  Devotee; you can be devoted to anybody.  You can be devoted to God.  But you may not be the disciple of that particular God’s form.  So, that’s why this devotee and disciple things are differentiated by many people; many Gurus also teach.  This is what Swamiji used to tell.  You are a devotee to anybody.  But devotion to the Guru, a disciple, both are equally important.  So, that is how.  So, you are devoted to the cause.  You devote yourself.  You offer yourself to that cause of learning from the Guru, practicing the sadhana.  So, then you are a real devotee.  You are able to remember the Guru, having reverence.  Then, disciple means you have accepted the discipleship of a particular Guru, and you learn from that Guru only and then do the sadhana according to the guidance of that Guru. 

That’s what Sri Krishna tells in Bhagavad Gita, “Before death shall claim thee Arjuna, go to the knowers of the truth…” You see, one opportunity is there in this sentence.  “Before death shall claim thee.”  When death happens means no more you cannot do anything.  You don’t know what’s going to happen.  Before that you have an opportunity.  “Go to the knowers of the truth.”  Means you have to go to their abode. “Sitting at their lotus feet, putting intelligent questions, receive such teachings from the Master and adopting such methods, achieve the truth to yourself.”  So, such is the importance that you develop such a relationship with the Master. 

Remember the story of Shuka Maharishi.  When Shuka Maharishi developed a doubt – He thought, “I was born in the monastery and remained in celibacy all the time.  So, I could keep my awareness to the Self always.  But how come Raja Janaka, King Janaka who is a householder, who is an emperor also – He has to attend to political duties, favor some people, not favor some people and family duties – in spite of all this, how is it possible for Him to keep His awareness to the Self always?”  To that, Vyaasa Maharishi, His father tells, “It is important from whom you want to learn something to consider that person as your Guru.  Go and learn.  Go to his abode.  You show that reverence that you are interested to go.  You go there and then seek His permission.  Then ask the questions yourself.” 

He [Sage Vyaasa] tells, “I am your father.  If I try to guide you, you might take me casually.  You may not take me seriously thinking “It is my father.”  But if you consider the Guru, there will be a fear.  That fear brings in discipline always.”  “The Master is there.  He will be watching.  He might scold us, we should not be doing all these things, we should be careful, we should not go out.”  So, that type of discipline comes.  So, that is how it is so important, the Guru-disciple relationship also.  So important that you accept somebody as a Guru, then you have the reverence.  Then only you will learn.  Otherwise, you will not learn at all.

Question:   Thank You, Baba.  Babaji has often said that the Guru is like a surgeon and the disciple has to give the Guru permission to operate on him or her.  Why must that operation be painful?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, one important factor which Swamiji referred to is, “Ego is the biggest hurdle for a person to learn and progress.”  He used to tell very often, “For a person, ego becomes so dear, they are ready to abuse the Guru and go away from the Guru also.”  This we saw in Swamiji’s life also.  We saw so many people, they became such VIPs, they came so closer, they used to keep sitting, gossiping with Him, talking to Him.  One time if He scolded them, they abused Him and left Him and went away.  They became away to Him.  Such things happened; we have seen because we were so close to Swamiji.  We have seen this one.  So, ego becomes so dearer to them.  So, if there is no ego…  In the incarnation of Lord Vishnu’s Narasimha’s incarnation, devotee Prahlada, who was the son of Hiranyakashipu, when Narasimha appears from the pillar, then he sings, Prahlada. “At least now, O father, prostrate to Him and accept Him as your Divine and your Guru, because this is the last moment of your life.  You are going to lose your physical body, you won’t know what will happen.  You see him as the Divine, then you will attain mukti, you will also get.”  So, such is the preciousness of a Guru.  So that’s what one has to accept. 

Otherwise, Swamiji used to tell, “Yogis are very rare in the world.  You can see a mahatma, a saint, a monk, so many can be there.  But during yogi’s lifetime, very few get a chance to come to Him, to be with Him and to learn from Him, not everybody can approach.”  After He goes away, He might become famous, many people come to know, but they won’t be able to see Him physically.  Then people will understand how fortunate we were, ”We were physically with him.  It was like God lived with us,” type of things; such is the wondrous and wondrous of the things of the Guru‘s importance there that we have to understand.  It won’t come every day, every moment.  And once that moment is gone, it won’t come.  That precious moment were there. 

He is there everywhere, everybody knows; Vedantic point of view Guru is all-pervaded, that is different.  But when the Guru was physically with us, that was entirely different.  That’s what,  if you remember in Ananda Ashram retreat, I was answering a question, I was talking.  See, this physical body of a Guru is also precious for you all, because through this body I am able to communicate to you in a language that you can understand, the English.  If this body goes, then I won’t communicate with you in English anymore.  I am there, but you have to learn to communicate with me; that happens through your mind, through your faith, through your devotion, without that you cannot reach me then.  You need to have that devotion.  People will be bewildered.  Confused, we saw; many times people getting confused after Swamiji dropped physical body. 

So, thus, ego is the biggest hurdle that Swamiji used to talk.  Because of this, they stayed away from the Master.  They did not learn from the Master.  Because they came with a status.  This is another important thing Swamiji used to tell. “Don’t come to me as an army officer, as a royal person, as a business person.  Take out this coat of ego outside the gates.  Just come to me as a devotee.  When you come here, you are only a devotee, remember.”  Because if you come with that ego, that arrogance also crops up.  “O, I am a VIP.  I am a big officer now.  I should be given a VIP chance to sit with Swamiji specially, that I just gossip with Him, and I have the special privilege.”  When you have the privilege, you become egoistic and you don’t learn with Swamiji because you try to analyze the Guru.  When you get into analyzing the Guru, you fail, you cannot understand. 

That’s what Swamiji told.  Veda Vyaasa used to tell, “Do not go very close to the Self-Realized Master.  You are likely to take Him casually, misunderstand Him, because He will appear to be an ordinary human being, eating, talking, moving like anybody else.  You don’t know what is inside Him.  You cannot make it out at all.  His consciousness is supreme.  And it is totally in silence.  If you go too far away also, you will be neglected.  Because the Guru is in His own samadhi.  You have to maintain a middle distance, maintain that reverence.  You have to prick the Guru, pray to the Guru.  Ask a question, then the answer will come.  You are asking a question, the answer is coming.  Otherwise, I can keep quiet and keep sitting.  People take out any other topic sometimes and they start gossiping all such things.  So, then the spirituality doesn’t happen at all. 

I have told many times, I have seen in many places when Swamiji used to come out for Darshan, so then people used to flock around Him, thirty people, forty people; all their interest was to gossip, all political topics, this topic, that topic, they talked and talked.  Swamiji used to be talking and they also used to be showing their own political knowledge and this knowledge, that knowledge.  But hardly anybody would bother to ask any spiritual question at all.  So, that never would come.  Once a person asked a question and Swamiji answered.  There was another devotee also, “Swamiji You never told us this.”  Swamiji shot back, “You never asked me a question about this.  That’s why you didn’t get the teaching.  If you had asked, I would have told you.  He asked me, I am telling him.”  Then he became quiet. 

So, such is the wonder of a Guru – disciple.  That is the ego which keeps people away.  They don’t learn.  “Why should I learn?”  So, that ego crops up for a person.  That becomes so dearer.  I have wondered; after staying with Swamiji for thirty, forty years they have gone away abusing the Guru.  My God!  Like that, a thousand times every day He used to scold us.  That used to be pleasant for us.  Always we used to feel Swamiji is considering me as His own, like His own child.  That’s why He is pulling me up.  That’s why He is scolding me.  He is testing me after humiliating.  We used to feel bad if He did not scold us.  So, it became so common.  And we never thought like that one.  We used to come out of His room, go one round, and again go back and stand in front of Him.  He would have forgotten.  We spent our life with Him.  But people could not take it.  One time He scolded them, they didn’t want to come back again and see Him physically; even at the fag end of life also they didn’t want to come and see Him.  I used to wonder.  What makes these people?  

Such is the power of the ego and selfishness which corrupts; further gives rise to arrogance also, this ego.  That is why Swamiji said, “Ego is the the biggest hurdle.”  So, now you weigh.  If one side is ego, another side is the Guru, which one, whom you want?  If you want Guru, you have to sacrifice the ego, bear with humiliation, because that is a blessing; He is taking out your karmas.  That’s what is the surgery you asked, you see?  That surgery can be like a bitter pill.  Ego is so dearer for people.  If the Guru humiliates, they scold.  Even inside His room also, they couldn’t take it.  Imagine if He tries to humiliate in front of 100 people and 1000 people, how bad they would feel, they will run away.  They won’t be able to stay even for half an hour.  Many times people tell us, “Babaji we love you so much.  You can scold us.  Please take a cane and beat us.”  Well, if I start doing that, you will run away.  You will abuse me then.  You will scold me.  You will use all bad names for me. 

So, that’s what is authorizing a Guru to perform surgery.  So, if we surrender to the Guru, “You perform that.  You beat me or you scold me, You humiliate, no problem.  I am not going to go away from You.  I will always be with You because I need You.  You have that knowledge of the Self which I need.  For that I am ready to undergo any humiliation, no problem.  Don’t want to be reborn.”  That’s how we used to pray.  “Swamiji bless to inspire my wisdom that I am always with You and that I don’t go away from You.  I can sacrifice tapas, I can sacrifice anything else.  I can sacrifice ego, humiliation, no problem.”  So, then the Guru performs the surgery, means if He scolds…  That’s when Swamiji used to tell; when He used to scold me, He used to tell, “Take my scoldings, my beats, then the world cannot point out a finger on you.  I will make you a perfect person.  They will all respect you, the world.” 

If today, the world is honoring us, it is that grace of the Guru, which He removed that ego from us.  He never allowed that ego to crop up at all.  Slightest if it had come, He would finish that one.  He would take it out; from the root He would remove that one.  Such was the beauty!  If you surrender to the Guru, such will be the beauty of Guru – disciple relationship.  Just like a mother always takes care of the child it should not take a wrong path.  If necessary, she will slap.  She will scold.  It is her child; that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t love.  It is her own precious thing when a baby is there.  Like that, Guru, for Guru also, a disciple is like a child, very precious, Swamiji used to tell.  When He is scolding means He wants you to be perfect.  He doesn’t want you to take a wrong path.  He used to be alert always.  People might laugh and it might be funny also.  He took care so much.  Just like everywhere He used to be careful. 

Sometimes He used to funnily tell me, “Hey, be very careful.  Such and such a girl is keeping an eye on you.”  You might laugh at this.  But He alerted me.  He looked after me so much.  He didn’t want to go, “Careful.  Don’t talk to her.  Stay away from her.  She is not good.  Her eyes are not good on you.  You should stay.”  Then when He saw once the long hair I used to keep, then He scolded me, “Girls will be after you.  Go and get a clean shave.  Become a round-headed person.”  So, that was the grace of the Guru; like a mother He looked after us.  So, we were so secure at His lotus feet, that always He would look after us and He will not allow us to deviate from the path, get distracted.  That’s why we are here today also. 

Today He is not there physically.  But the discipline that He taught – even today, I get up at 3.30.  I do my duties, everything.  I look after the body also, as much as possible.  Attend to emails; every day on an average 30 to 35 emails I attend and try to answer them, counsel people, pray for them, send my blessings, everything I keep doing.  Then WhatsApp messages every two hours I try to attend as much as possible.  Then I try to attend the Ashram work, this Ashram work, office work also I sit and work.  Evening, regularly I sit and meet people.  So, Zoom classes, I also look forward to be with you all; so many devotees interested in meditation, serious meditators.  One hour, all of you are able to sit down unmoved is a moment of pride for me when you are practicing like this.  It is so wonderful to see you all.  So, I also look forward to come on a Zoom class like this and be with you all, and talk to you all like this when you select a theme and ask questions.  It gives an opportunity to me to share my experiences in tapas and what my Guru taught me in those days. 

So, all these things I am able to share with you all; it is all because of you all helping me to do this.  That was the surgeon that the Guru was.  He was a tough teacher.  He insisted for one-hour sitting meditation.  Sometimes we are lenient.  At least something is better, you do twenty minutes, thirty minutes, slowly raise it to one hour like that we talk, but He used to tell “Sit one hour is important, at least one hour!  Because first thirty, forty minutes, you struggle; the mind runs like a monkey and you are trying to bring it back, then final five, ten minutes, it warms up and cools down.  Then watch, remain focused.  Just watching, be there.  Don’t allow the mind to run away.  Let any thought or vision come there.  Then it will disappear”, He used to tell.  That is the surgeon. 

Question:   Thank You, Baba.  Babaji, can a Guru who is Self-Realized take on a disciple’s karma?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, this is there widely, the faith is there, they believed.  But if we say the Guru can take, then disciples will become casual; they start thinking they can do any mischief in this world and the Guru will take and they get rid of the karma.  Everybody wants to get rid of the karma, this question they keep asking, “If we meditate, can we overcome the karma?” They don’t want to undergo the difficulties and troubles.  But when they do it, they don’t see.  When they behave in this world badly, when they talk very rudely, they don’t understand what they are doing.  That’s what Jesus said, “Forgive them, they know not what they are doing.”  So, this is what happens. 

The karma one has to undergo, otherwise they can never get liberation.  If the karma is there, they have to come back to the world again.  The Guru helps so that this karma is taken out.  When He scolds, if He slaps, He can take out the karma like that.  Swamiji told once, “If I get annoyed with you, I can give you liberation.  If I smile at a devotee, I can give the world for him; any matter that he wants, I can give.  So, what do you want? You want the spiritual truth? Then let the Guru get annoyed with you, scold you.  That is how He can remove the karma.”  A Guru taking the karma; He can take the karma if He wants, but that is not important.  The disciples also must learn to undergo the karma whatever they have done.  That’s what the Guru helps.  But when the Guru is there, He helps you so that you become tranquilized during that period.  You don’t feel that troublesome period.  It will pass by just like that one.  You keep remembering.  In the end of Mahabharata, Kunti talking to Sri Krishna tells, “Krishna, when we were in trouble all the time, it was so wonderful because all the time we used to remember You only.  ‘Krishna come and protect us.  Krishna help us.  My children are in trouble’,  I used to pray to You.  I always used to remember You.  But now my children have won the war.  They are the emperors.  We have everything.  There is no trouble at all, nobody to trouble.  But I don’t enjoy, Krishna.  Give me trouble always so that I can keep remembering You, so that I don’t forget You even for a moment.”  Like that Kunti prays to Sri Krishna. 

So that is one thing, you see?  And karma, Guru taking the karma is another thing.  I’m just telling my opinion; so, we should not expect that the Guru should take the karma.  Instead we should undergo.  The Guru helps you to overcome that effect.  That’s why many times people come; if they don’t think that the Guru can take out the karma, they go away, “Oh, what is the use of this Guru?”  Nobody can take out the karma like that.  If that was the thing, a yogi can come and take out the karma of everybody in the world.  They wouldn’t have been a karma at all for anybody.  So much of suffering, so much of conflicts, so much of war, so much of killing.  All these things wouldn’t have been there.  Everybody is responsible for their own karma, for their behavior.  A Guru as a torchbearer helps them to tranquilize themselves in the remembrance of the Divinity, by practicing meditation.  You undergo. 

We are in the ashram.  We have become a yogi, but we undergo all troubles.  Life is not a bed of roses for us also.  In the ashram, whether for me or Ambaji, whoever is in the ashram, we have to undergo all troubles, take care of the things, so many things.  But the remembrance of the Guru, His grace helps us to go through.  The knowledge of the Self keeps us in the awareness of the Self so that we don’t notice that trouble at all, that the trouble happened.  If we look back, how these fifty years at the lotus feet of Guru – 1974 that we came to this ashram, today it is 51 years, 51^st year going.  We don’t know how the time passed by because always in the remembrance of Guru, working for Him, serving Him, the time simply went by like that, the mind remained tranquilized all the time.  So, that’s what we want.  Remembrance of the Guru is what can take your karma.  You remember the Guru.  You meditate, then your karma can be removed. 

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  Babaji has said a few times that He is a ‘silent killer’.  Can Babaji talk about how the Guru works on His disciples in subtle ways and how He helps them progress?

Babaji Maharaj:   Just to tell, don’t take me granted because I’m soft spoken, I don’t get irritated or annoyed quickly.  That’s what many people point out, “Your Guru used to be very annoyed very quickly, used to keep shouting at everyone.  Why has He named you as Rudra, Shiva Rudra?  So, You are so soft spoken and You don’t get angry at all.”  So, for that, I told, “Don’t take me granted.  I’m in a different way.  If you don’t behave properly, I will not spare you.  If you misbehave with my Guru or my Guru‘s institution, then you will see my annoyance.”  That’s what I told jokingly, “I am a silent killer.”  That’s what it means.  Means, if you’re not going to behave properly, don’t take me granted that you can sit on my head.  A discipline is discipline.  So, that’s what is important.  You be a devotee, practice sadhana, then you will receive my blessings.  Otherwise, you will lose that vital blessings and grace of a Guru.  If you take me casually, if you misbehave with the Guru, then you will be the loser. 

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  There are Gurus that offer a surrender ceremony called Prapati.  And it said then that the devotees will attain mukti after they drop the physical body.  Does the Guru have the power to do this, so that the disciple doesn’t have to complete the tapas in this lifetime?

Babaji Maharaj:   This is not true.  My Guru Swamiji said, “If any Guru tells, “I will do it for you,” do not believe.  You have to do that sadhana.”  A Guru is a torchbearer.  He guides you, inspires you, then you have to meditate.  He can hold your fingers, but it is you who has to stand up and start walking.  You can take the horse to the pond, but it is the horse which has to drink the water.  That is important.  So, people always expect instant coffees.  Human beings, they don’t want to put in efforts.  They try to look for such Gurus, “Is there any Guru who can touch on my head and give me Self-Realization?”  That Guru who touches and tells that you are Self-Realized, that Guru also doesn’t know what is Self-Realization, and that disciple also will never know what is Self-Realization.  Simply he will get into an ego, “O, I have been blessed.  The Kundalini has been awakened.”  People start claiming, they write to me questions, “My Kundalini is awakened already.  And this is happening to me.  Can You tell me what is happening to me?”  What is there for me to tell if your Kundalini is awakened, idiot.  Like that.  It is not so true.  It is not true.  These are all myths.  People have to put in effort. 

That’s what since ancient times of Rigvedic era, Purushaartha, one word is used.  Self-efforts is important.  But psychologically, sometimes they have to tell.  But if we tell you have to put in effort, people get scared.  They want to escape, “Even if we don’t do tapas, can we get Self-Realized?”  You don’t read anything.  Can you gain the knowledge? You might get a false certificate of a degree by paying some bribe.  But can you gain the knowledge of the degree?  You might become a doctor by obtaining false documents by bribing.  But can you become a real doctor if you do not study and practically practice?  That will never happen.  So, you have to do.  A Guru will guide you how to meditate.  Then you have to meditate.  It is your mind.  You have to control your mind.  Nobody else can control. 

Question:   Thank You, Baba.  Babaji’s Guru is now the universe.  And Babaji and His Guru are one and the same.  Why do we celebrate His physical form?  What’s the significance of that?

 Babaji Maharaj:   In this world, we have to maintain the proper manners.  A Guru is always a Guru.  A disciple is a disciple.  My Swamiji used to tell a beautiful example.  “There is a person.  He gets married and he begets a son also.  And that son also grows one day.  He also becomes a young man and he gets married.  Then he also begets a son.  That son of the father is also a father.  But he is father only to his son, he cannot be a father to his father, idiot.”  Swamiji used to tell.  To his father, he is always a child.  He is always a son.  He is only a father to his son.  Like, tomorrow, future generations might accept me as a Guru.  But to my Guru, I am always a disciple.  I am always a servant at His lotus feet.  To my disciple, I can be a Guru.  But I cannot be a Guru to my Guru.  That doesn’t happen.  That is the beautiful culture, manners we were taught in this world, in our Indian culture also.  So, that’s what is important. 

Though in Vedantic terms, there is no mind and individual imagined self.  That’s what in Advaita, Hanumanji tells, “If it is Advaita, I do not exist at all, only Sri Rama.  If it is in Dwaita, duality, I am Sri Rama’s servant and Sri Rama is my Master.”  That’s what is the worldly manners.  When I do not exist at all, it’s only Swamiji who exists as all-pervaded Divinity.  In this world, I exist as His disciple.  So that’s when we requested people to call me as Babaji.  Because in our mission, we always addressed our Guru Shivabalayogi as Swamiji Maharaj.  Swamiji, Swamiji, we were used to – so that people should not get confused.  They should know even while introducing also, Bruce, you keep introducing, you all know, you tell that Swamiji means it is Shivabalayogi, Babaji means it is Shivarudrabalayogi.  In this world, this difference is very necessary.  These manners are very necessary. 

Question:   Pranaam Babaji, I’m really grateful for Your presence, Babaji.  What are these dimensions where a soul goes?  I know I don’t have those eyes to see, what I want to understand, what are those dimensions?  And according to the karma, they say they go.  So, I want to understand are they different planets or are they on the earth? Where are those dimensions?

Babaji Maharaj:   These are a lot of myths that are there.  Nobody can know what happens.  It is all mind-boggling illusions.  When the person dies, when the brain dies, the mind gets delinked from the brain and assumes next incarnation based on its acquired habits, whatever it has acquired, habits, good or bad, violent or nonviolent.  Based on that, it will see its own world.  Then it will forget its previous life also.  This you must understand.  Do you remember any of your fifty lives?  If you try to remember, if at all you remember, you will go mad.  In one life, you are unable to manage your emotions.  As long as the body is there, all relations are there.  Now, what you can do is pray to God.  Be in touch with the Divine through prayers for your departed, whether parents or grandparents, whoever it is, pray for them.  More than that, do not worry where they are, what they are doing.  Even if I explain, it will not sit in your mind, you will go mad. 

Question:   Namaste Babaji.  Supplement to Dr. Bruce’s last question.  The biological parents are of this life.  Whereas it is said, Guru is of many lives.  I mean, Guru and disciple connection.  Is it true first, and how this takes place?  And further, the Guru Self-Realized Master, He disappears from this world in this physical body.  There is no rebirth for that Self-Realized Master.  So, how that connection keeps moving on? 

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, when a Self-Realized Guru drops the physical body, it is known as attaining Mahasamadhi.  He has already become one with the Divine.  But this is also true that the connection with the disciple is so many lives.  So, when you pray in the name of the Guru, the same Divine will come in the form of that Guru that is dearer to you and will be guiding you in all the lives.  That is how it happens.  The same Guru is no individual at all to be reborn again.  Otherwise, He is not Self-Realized at all.  He is Self-Realized means he has totally merged with the Self.  So, when body goes, He is one with the all-pervaded Divinity.  But if the disciple has the faith and devotion, he is attached to the form or name of the Guru, if he prays, the same God will come in that form and helps and protects, guides.  So, this is how the things happen, scientifically and spiritually also. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You. 

Question:   Hi Babaji.  My question is, I met my Guru about forty years ago.  I was at a lecture by Sri Chinmayananda.  And after the lecture, I was introduced to this man.  He said, “What did you think?”  I said, “I can’t speak.  It was like bells going off.  And I have no words.”  This man is saying something that I know to be true.  So, we had further conversation.  And in the end, He wanted to send me off to the ashram in India.  And so we got all ready to do that.  Things happened in life.  My brother died in a plane crash.  I decided to stay. 

So, for the next forty years, He offered to teach me.  And so I stayed with Him.  People came and went over the decades.  But I remained with Him over all that time.  And eventually, recently He passed away and He got Alzheimer’s.  And I took care of Him till the end.  And I learned much from that.  And so that’s okay.  So, I learned many things from Him.  And He said essentially the same thing that every teacher has said, even You, Babaji, that essence of what He said, exactly the same.  But He knew me over all those years.  And He would say things I thought that were for me.  He would say, “You know who you are, Aaron.  Just be that.  You know, it’s that simple.  Quit checking.”  And so, Your message is slightly different from a technique point of view.  You’re very heavy tapas.  And I have practiced meditation for all these decades.  But not that extreme.  And yet I find myself so attracted to You.  So, I guess my question is, are there any pitfalls in sort of getting remarried, having a second marriage? 

Babaji Maharaj:   One thing, I assure all Gurus are same who are merged with God.  So, there is really no conflict.  I appreciate that you had accepted a Guru and stayed with Him, you could learn so much, definitely.  So, you can consider your own Guru is always with you.  And He has only sent you to get some guidance from me.  So, if you have any doubts you want to get attracted, want to do this sadhana.  That’s how we always tell, when you want to learn this meditation,  if you have been initiated into any other sadhana, if you had any other Guru, there is no conflict at all.  You can even consider me as a friend also.  You don’t have to take me as a Guru.  Keeping that Guru as a Guru, as a friend also, you can take guidance and practice this. 

Because it is essential to silence the mind.  As long as the mind is preoccupied with its own imagination, the awareness of the real Self doesn’t come.  Because mind is made up of consciousness and energy.  Consciousness means wherever you apply your mind, you become aware of that.  So just now your consciousness is applied to its own imaginations.  So that imagination needs to be stopped by just watching in between eyebrows, the technique we taught you.  Then one day when you achieve silence, then the attention of that consciousness of yours goes to itself, giving you the awareness of you as that immortal soul.  This is what it is.  So, what those great teachers taught also is very true.  Paths and terminologies might be different.  Ultimately this is what when your Guru said “Just be yourself.”  Also is the same thing.  So, one day He thought you will realize that.  So, you gain the knowledge, awareness of what you are, the consciousness of existence.  This you can gain when you practice this meditation.  So, you can just consider us as a friend.  Anytime you need any guidance, if you have doubts, we are always there. 

Same Questioner:   So, should I switch techniques even?  Should I stop watching my breath and instead switch to this one?

Babaji Maharaj:   While continuing the watching the breath, sometimes for one hour try to do this also.  If this comes to you handy and you find it easy to pick up, then you can pick up this technique more.  Because important thing is, like this technique we taught is one of the most ancient methods practiced in ancient India, where you are trying to give the mind to become quiet on its own, then it goes introvert eventually merging with the Self.  And other sadhanas, there can be hundreds of sadhanas there, watching a breath or chanting a mantra, anything.  They are all trying to make the mind single-pointed.  Instead of having millions of thoughts, make it single-pointed so that one day you can abandon that also and make the mind to go introvert.  Making the mind to go introvert, you have to drop all ideas in the mind, everything; mind has to become totally silent, then you go to that absoluteness.

Same Questioner:   Thank You. 

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  Thank You so much.  I saw You recently at Ananda.  So wonderful.  So for the past few years, two, three, four, I don’t really have any desire to go anywhere.  And I have my son at the ashram and I also do caretaking for some family members.  But now, being with You again, I’ve got attracted to the idea of going to that meditation retreat at the end of September.  And I know I should figure it out for myself, but I want to ask Your advice about that, about whether even being older and so on that I might be able to come and actually do that, would that be advisable for me. 

Babaji Maharaj:   It depends.  One thing is your choice.  If you think that you are able to undertake the travel all the way, and other things, the organizers are there.  They are receiving the applications.  Hope it is not too late if you have not yet applied because once the numbers are finished, they won’t be able to take more.  One time, we take a limited [number], so that I am able to attend every need of every student.  We don’t take too many people, that much that we can accommodate.  If you still want, if you think you can travel, please contact the organizers and the website that is given, filling up the form.  If there is any place available, they will let you know, then you can travel, come, you will be able to spend ten days with us again, will be possible. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You.  Thank You so much.  One other question I had.  When some psychological problems have arisen, as somebody that I trust as a counselor type person, I had said that I am not enough in touch with my feelings.  So, I was always going towards meditation and thinking and hoping and feeling that that will purify my mind and everything.  So, this person was saying to me, you need to do certain work to get in touch with your feelings, express them and then they will be transformed.  You’ll be released or you’ll be more in touch, that that would be necessary for me to achieve wholeness as a person.  If that’s clear, I’m wondering if You have any advice about that. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Two simple things.  When you regularly practice the meditation, you will be able to overcome any such feelings.  Naturally, it gets sublimated and your mind becomes purified.  This is one thing.  Also, as a psychology also we try to teach people, if you have feelings, if you can confide with somebody whom you can trust, then you will feel relieved.  There is somebody who listens to me who can understand me, such feeling, then you will feel a lot of relief.  If you don’t have anybody with whom you can confide, still you don’t allow the pressure to build up inside, write it down in a diary. 

Same Questioner:   It’s is a little bit like…  she’s saying that I’m not feeling my feelings.  It’s like when you go into and go to your past, your childhood, find out how you get blocked and defensive and release that. Almost psychotherapy type work. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Anything if it is bothering, so this is the way, so that if your mind becomes purified, you will be able to get proper decisions, which direction to go, what to do; you won’t be confused at all.  So, that’s what the feeling means, yourself.  Because feelings are like emotions.  Sometimes it can be your strength, it can become your weakness also.  If you can channel into one direction.  Suppose you fall in love with a Guru or a God, then you channelize all your feelings, then that can take care of it and you will win also.  Otherwise, it can be troubling you always.  So, in that circumstance only, if you purify it, you can overcome totally, you transcend the emotions at all.  There is no feelings at all, then you will be able to take proper decision.  Your mind will become purified and your health will also be stress-free always. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You so much. 

Question:   Namaste Babaji.  I have a stupid question in my mind.  As we both have not physically met each other, still You are my Guru?  

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, I can be.  Because as I had told, it is your faith and devotion what matters.  If you have faith, in your mind, if you always consider, “This is my Guru.”  Just like Ekalavya learned from Dronacharya by making an idol of Dronacharya.  It was the faith of that person which enabled him to learn.  So, if you can develop such faith, if you have the inclination; you have to consider me as a Guru, then I am always your Guru.  You see, in today’s world, communication is not a difficult thing.  Online, you are able to see your Guru live also, and you are able to talk to the Guru, ask a question.  And listen to the Guru’s talking.  All these things are possible.  So, like that you can always consider me as a Guru.  That is no problem. 

Same Questioner:   But, Babaji, I have not served You.  I didn’t do seva. 

Babaji Maharaj:   No problem.  So, if you meditate, that is the service to me, that will reach me only.  If you meditate and achieve, that is the real service.  So, anytime, if possible then you can do, otherwise that is not necessary; always that you have to come physically and do any service.  So, you just practice meditation, and you live your life, wherever you are working, consider that as a service to the Master, so that service will reach me always. 

Same Questioner:   True feelings make the Guru and disciple, always a bond between them?

Babaji Maharaj:   If you have the feelings that you are a disciple and I am a Guru, that is what is important. 

Same Questioner:   That is why I always ask questions to You, to have a blessing for me always.  That is why I always ask silly, silly questions to You. 

Babaji Maharaj:   No problem.  I will always help you.  I am always available for you to guide.  You practice meditation.  That is the service. God bless you all. My blessings.

End of Session