Question & Answers – Perth Retreat 2 May 2009. Part One

Introduction

When the Divine decides, “Now is the time for you to go to Liberation,” He’ll be pricking from all sides. If you sit down He will prick; if you stand up He will prick; if you lie down He will prick; He’ll be pulling you up from all sides.

Probably the Ocean is unable to appreciate its Self. Only a droplet that comes out of the Ocean, when it tries to see towards the Ocean, is able to appreciate the mighty Ocean, vastness, the greatness of the Ocean. However, this inability to appreciate shall not be considered as a shortcoming or a disability or such thing, it could be simply blissful unawareness. In the same way the Divinity that is All-Pervaded is perhaps blissfully unaware of Its own greatness, and the spark comes out which we call the ‘individual soul consciousness’ and when it goes towards God, the Divinity, that will be able to appreciate the Divinity that is All-Pervading, Supremely Peaceful. Probably that is why this creation keeps happening, the illusion keeps happening, all the troubles keep happening. So then you are able to appreciate the peace and happiness and the Divinity, that’s the purest form.

Question:
Babaji, You mentioned just before we went into meditation Your Guru was telling You that when you come close to Liberation….

Babaji:
…Pricking. Yes, yes. Once He said, “God will be pricking you from all sides when He wants to Liberate you.” Means He wouldn’t allow you to rest in this world peacefully so that you don’t become attached to this world. From all sides He would be always pricking. Means you wouldn’t know what is right and what is wrong. If you sit down He will prick you, if you stand up He will prick you. Finally, tired of this world, then you would like to give up and go back to the Divinity. Then the Divine is happy perhaps. That’s what I think, I was trying to tell.

Question:
Is a symptom of that pricking, people who are unhappy in the world, who do not find satisfaction in anything in the world? Is that similar to say depression but is that sometimes a push towards the Divine?

Babaji:
Yes, because either knowingly or unknowingly the mind is looking for an everlasting peace and happiness. So that is what the Divine is. The Divine’s very nature is peace and happiness and also it is looking for a secure existence to overcome all sorts of sufferings, pains, everything. So that is what is the final answer. Suppose even when you see the world suffering also, when it is so painful,  “Why should all these be suffering, suffering unnecessarily?” so that is the only answer – the Divinity, because that is the only reality of existence. That is where we can find the solution.

In all other ways people have tried to find solution. See, since time immemorial great sages have come, Saints have come, Yogis have come; all have come and tried to teach humanity to live peacefully, to live harmoniously, to consider about each other, not to do injustice. All these type of things they have tried to teach. But hardly humanity has learned. They have always been behaving according to their own temperament. People have not been able to change themselves in spite of these teachings. So this is also one of the symptoms, and when the suffering happens, when you feel that, it’s a sort of detachment and depression also.

So you are unhappy and dejected, so that is also a symptom of a push towards the Divinity. Means at that time you should not allow your mind’s thoughts to die down from trying to find a permanent solution. That should always be the thinking: “There must be some solution, what is it? There must be some existence where one can be relieved of all these pains.” Even great Saints like Buddha, all these people thought the same way. When they saw the suffering and pain of this world, only it induced them to go towards the Divinity.

Question (same questioner):
And so when those moments do occur, where there’s some disillusionment, is it a trick to turn that moment into service to the Guru, service to family, service to your household, to see it as your duty?

Babaji:
Yes, very much. That’s what I also learned. Suppose you see this world suffering and you feel dejected. You are very sad, you don’t know what to do, you are likely to get confused. We cannot change the whole world. The amount of suffering of the evilness that is happening is enormous and mighty. Singlehandedly nobody can handle this, that is the situation. At that time, so instead of simply sitting in a corner depressed or dejected or trying to end your own life, all such things should be avoided. At least like a service let your life be some sort of help to somebody – to the family, to the Guru, to anybody whomever that you can help – so that you learn more about the spiritual truth.

Simply spend the rest of your life trying to help somebody and take care of your own physical health and mental health at all times. This is very important. Because as long as you are physically fit, mentally fit, then only you will be morally fit to help somebody. So if you feel depressed and lose your physical health or mental health then your life becomes useless for anybody. So that is what is the important thing we need to learn.

Question:
Baba, some people seem to be satisfied with this world, at least they appear to be, and obviously not the people in this room, but, you know some people seem happy with just having a job and getting married and having children and buying a house and … what’s going on there?

Babaji:
No, what’s going on there? [Babaji laughs] You want me to penetrate to their minds and families and try to know? OK a little bit for sake of interest I can tell. Definitely there is no hundred percent contentment anywhere, it’s on the temporary things, because mind is constantly searching for peace but it does not know the right path, so whatever it comes across it tries to find peace with it. So it goes on trying, trying, adopting such methods, this, that, so many things. Well, adopting any such methods, it is an individual’s choice, we shall not comment what is right and what is wrong, that is not the thing, but I’m sure nobody is hundred percent content or totally at peace and happiness.

You go on asking each and every person in the world, everybody will be telling you, “Go and ask the richest person in the world, ‘Are you happy, are you contented, do you have enough money? Because we do not have enough money.'” He will always express his discontentment. People who have millions we have seen and they always tell, “We don’t have the money, I don’t have anything, I need some more.” So this is what everybody would be thinking, thinking. The mind’s illusion is like that, it doesn’t stop anywhere. So generally I assure you nobody is hundred percent happy and contented. They are trying to do every jump, circus, this, that, happening in this world.

Question:
It’s probably just a follow on from that, but do You think that there’s just a time for everyone, the time comes, say someone’s in depression right now, to just tell them that the world’s an illusion and they need to turn towards God? It might be very difficult for them just to get that right now, some people need little steps along the way. Do You think there’s just a time for everyone to really, to just get it?

Babaji:
Yes, definitely, a time for everyone. But we have modified the teachings on the personal experience, instead of simply telling, “This world is illusion, you go towards God,” instead of that, “Try to see God in everything then you will have more peace.” Illusion means not that you have to run away from the world. You remain in any way of life, that’s what my Guru taught, “No need to run to a cave and sit down because you’ll be carrying your mind there also if you’re not satisfied, if your mind is craving.” So try to see Divinity everywhere and by doing so try to go towards God more and more so that you can find the permanent peace and happiness, that’s how we have to tell. So and it’s definitely time. Every moment is a time [Babaji snaps His fingers].

Question:
Babaji, we were having a discussion earlier and we know that Swamiji did twelve years of Tapas, and You did five years and seven years was taken because of Your service to Your Guru. Now is it that twelve years is the required number of years for Tapas, or does every individual have different time frames? Because when someone asked me that question I wasn’t sure how to answer that.

Babaji:
Probably traditionally our Guru’s lineage has come like that. Lord Shiva when He appeared as the Jangama Sage, He ordained it to Swamiji for twelve years Tapas and He performed it. Though I have heard from Swamiji that the actual Realization it had occurred to Him after five years, it was over. But still because His Guru wanted Him to do twelve years He went on continuing for the next seven years also. That was why for the first several years it was very vigorously done for the twenty two hours a day of meditation. The final few years He simply did fourteen hours, sixteen hours, the rest of the time resting, that’s what it is.

For me also in that vision it came. That’s very difficult to conclusively answer why and how it happened this way. So conclusively there is no need that one has to do a twelve years Tapas only. If a Realization has to occur it may happen in a few years, or twelve years. So if you are sitting under a Guru, the Guru might ordain you that you do this much of Tapas and then see what happens. So like that, after my Guru’s Tapas, during His lifetime also, at least one of the devotees who sat for Tapas in 1974, Swamiji had ordained only five years of Tapas for him, probably with the idea, “That would be enough, that mind would settle down and be at peace.” So it depends on the amount of mind that needs to be settled down peacefully.

Like for Buddha also, He was supposed to have done twelve years Tapas, and for people like Rama, Krishna, we do not really know how many years they actually did. For seven days Vashista went on giving discourse and Shri Rama had attained Realization. So like this Ramana Maharshi also, I don’t know how many years, is it mentioned any more regularly? It is not really mentioned how many years He did. For several years He was in deep Tapas and He attained that Realization. So it’s very difficult to tell about this period. In our Guru’s lineage we always maintain that twelve years is needed – traditional.

Question:
Baba, just reading the ‘Guru-Disciple’ book, in there it talks about how Swamiji sat the four directions and then You also encountered having to sit the four directions. Did You encounter the same challenges that Swamiji did when He faced those different directions? And what’s the purpose of sitting facing those four directions?

Babaji:
I think facing the west was sometimes a bit difficult for me and I had to continue a little more time. It was a very funny situation. After that specific period of that Tapas and that particular direction, the surroundings were quite disturbing and such type of things were happening giving a little bit of mental pressure, I had to maintain the composure and the quietness so that I wouldn’t react mentally and go for any such things. And also the amount of siddhis type of things, mental resolution were coming and all such things went on happening for some time so I had to curtail and stop them. So thus it was a bit difficult. And finally when the Deity appeared it did not utter any mantra as was the usual experience I was looking to in other directions. It appeared and then disappeared. Then afterwards when Swamiji’s vision came, He asked me what the mantra was. I said, “No mantra came.” Then Swamiji said, “Then you will have to continue for some more time, perhaps another six months or so.” It is explained in that book. He wanted me to continue in the same direction. So like that some hardships did happen.

A lot of hardships came of course. Means to summarize and tell, the determination is always tested, your eligibility is tested, no matter whether the surroundings or the sittings can be comfortable, whatever it is. Like, when Swamiji sat, the physical surroundings were very hard, awful. He sat in the mud, rodents and scorpions were biting Him, all such things were happening, rains, He had to face so many other things. But He had one plus point. His own mother was looking after Him so caring and so affectionately. So like that both things do happen; somewhere it gets affected, somewhere the Divine sends also.

In the same way, though I was sitting inside a room where a bathroom was available, still the mental determination was tested by so many other happenings of certain other people who were behaving in so many other ways. But still at least one person was very caring and affectionate and whenever she could come she looked after me. So like this the plus and minus both were going on equally, but still it was premature for her to come and settle down permanently. She had to be going back home and coming and when not there, there was a lot of hardship by others, a couple of others who were looking after there. So this type of eligibility and determination is always tested and they can be very severe.

Question
So have most Saints who have sat for Tapas sat in those four directions or is it something that is just in Your lineage?

Babaji:
This has been quite unique to our lineage, I haven’t heard much about any other Saints doing.

Question
You’re saying in west Divinity appeared and then went away, then Your Guru presented Himself and asked You if you’d received a mantra and You had not, and then You were asked to sit for another six months – Did the mantra then come?

Babaji:
Yes. So then only, because that was what was happening right from the beginning – north, east, south, west, all these things when it was happening. So at the end of that specific period my Guru would come and He would tell, “You have to sit for this period, and at the end that Deity would appear and then you would utter the mantra.” So after that when the Guru came, I would spontaneously repeat the same mantra, so then He would permit that, “You can change the direction.”

Question:
Baba, why do other traditions emphasize meditating on the heart?

Babaji:
Traditions meditating on the heart?

Question (same questioner):
Yes, they all emphasize that everything is in the heart?

Babaji:
It is all symbolically only it has been emphasized. There is no such heart residing here. To me one of the things means when you close the eyes you imagine, because the mind has to come introvert, so there is no such thing that you can tie a rope to the mind and bring it introvert like that. It is not possible. You have to adopt a certain technology, that’s what it is. So when you close the eyes, either try to imagine the introvertness, like if you try that if you’re concentrating in the heart, that is the place where You reside, the Self resides. You imagine the location, so then the mind is likely to become quiet and pay attention to the heart and go introverted. In the same way, when you’re concentrating in-between the eyebrows also, if the hundred percent concentration happens, if there is no resolution, automatically the mind goes introverted after that, it wouldn’t simply stop there. It stops only when it is stopping on a particular resolution. That is why this is such a unique, very ancient type of meditation. What we teach is that you do not have to repeat any mantra or any name – just concentrate. Like I have been telling in this, you are giving the mind itself a practice to become quite on its own without any external anchor, then it goes introverted automatically. So that is the basic idea of giving this heart also – spiritual. And spiritually heart is mentioned for the emotions of the mind.

Questioner:
The emotions of the mind. Thank You.