0:00 Intro
0:07 Did Babaji meet the Saint Anandamayi Ma?
20:14 Did Swamiji use to sing the Hanuman Chalisa?
21:15 Could Babaji speak about the Hanuman Chalisa?
22:46 Did characters like Hanuman really exist?
23:42 What is the meaning of the saying, ‘The Divine is like the ghee inside the milk’?
27:03 What is the energy version of applying attention?
27:32 Is energy actually the life? When death happens is there no energy?
28:01 How does energy exist in its pure form?
28:33 Babaji has said that ‘consciousness can consider but energy cannnot consider’
31:41 Can we consider our mind as a portion of space?
33:29 If were are able to ‘just watch’ in meditation, is the thing that we are watching tattva or the space?
34:00 What is unconditional love?
35:28 Despite some devotees’ bad behaviour, Babaji still opens the doors of the Ashram to all.
38:56 Can Babaji explain the meaning of the ‘Sahana Vavatu’ chant?
40:06 The importance of humility to the Guru
40:59 Why do people say that one should keep a middle distance to the Guru?
41:53 People seem to have an expectation of what a Yogi should be.
46:13 Are there many other Realised Souls hidden around the world unrecognised?
47:24 How many people in the world are sincerely seeking spirituality?
48:53 Did Swamiji say that one of His purposes was to awaken the dormant spirituality in people?

Discourse: In Quest of Truth
DSM Meditation Retreat 2024 Day 5 Evening
Recorded: February 2024

Start of Questions and Answers
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Question:   Did Babaji meet the saint, Anandamayi Ma?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, Anandamayi Ma was a great saint,  I have seen Her,  I happened to meet Her.  I don’t know much about Her life or anything. She used to come to Dehradun, but most of the time, summer months when She used to come, Swamiji also used to be in our Ashram.  So, I hardly got time to go there or know, understand.  So, only one time I just had a darshan and another time, second time was when She dropped her body.  I just went to see body in 1981, August.  We used to hear from people that She is a great saint and incidentally just to recall, small stories that when Swamiji was visiting Dehradun in 1966 for the first time…  Because during Swamiji’s tapas time, in the early fifties, a Sikh person, Bachsingh Lamba, he was posted as a salt commissioner in Chennai (Madras).  Then both Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu were one state, Madras state.  So, he used to travel in Andhra also where Swamiji was doing tapas.  He met Swamiji and he became a devotee of Swamiji.  So, he also used to go to trance.  Then after retirement, he invited Swamiji, “I will build an ashram for You in Dehradun.  You come there please.”  Swamiji said, “I am still in the midst of tapas.  After completing I will come.”  So, in 1961 He completed tapas.  Finally, after two-three years of travelling in South India, slowly when He found some devotees who could accompany Him, finally in 1966, He travelled towards northern India.  In those days travelling to northern India from South was like going to a foreign country.  They didn’t know Hindi language also.  So, all were from southern part of India, knew only Telugu or Kannada languages.  That was the time.  So by car they went; that Swamiji was to tell. And when they reached, it was about 9:30 or 10 o’clock at Mr.  Lamba’s home when they all reached.  And Mrs.  Lamba brought one plate of food to Swamiji only.  So Swamiji enquired, “What about food to my boys who are accompanying me?”  She said, “No, tomorrow morning if You send them away, then I can give them one meal.  We will look after You.  You don’t need your boys anymore.  You are ours now.”   She said, “Otherwise, I won’t give them any food.  I can give only one meal for You only.”  Swamiji was very furious.  “All the way from southern part of India, thousands of kilometers, they have come in total devotion to me, in total faith to me, how can you ask me to ask them to get out?  That is not possible.  If we have to go, all of us will go or all of us will stay here.”  So, they continued to stay because Mr. Lamba was very devoted.  He requested Swamiji.  And that night Swamiji and all the boys didn’t have any meals at all after reaching Dehradun.  That was their experience after first reaching Dehradun, and they all slept like that.

 Next day morning… in those days both morning and evening, the program used to be there.  So, devotees in India, when you do aarathi, that plate is shown to all devotees and devotees offer any offerings they want to make, like small notes or coins used to put.  From that money, Swamiji asked the boys to go and get a kerosene stove and some rations so that they cook food and eat.  That’s how that was going on.  So as this was going on, He visited Gita Bhavan in the city; the trustees invited Him.  Then when Anandamayi Ma came to know about Swamiji, she invited Swamiji also to her ashram, next door to our place.  So now the story is that Kailash Kumariji, Odisha’s Patna State, she was the erstwhile royal family lady.  She had been to Rishikesh for a Ganga bath and on her way back, Mokhampur in the Haridwar route, that’s where Swamiji was camping with Mr.  Lamba, she saw a lot of cars in the evening, big rush was there.  She just stopped her car and cried, “What is happening here?”  So, somebody said, “Hey, some loin cloth Yogi has come from South India.  He is giving darshan.”  “Oh, OK.” But she didn’t go inside.  She came back home, but something was playing on her mind, “Should I have gone inside and seen that yogi; who it could be?”  Like that.  Next day, she used to recall.  I have heard from her mouth that her eldest daughter said, “Ma, let us go for satsang to Anandamayi Ma’s ashram.”  They had high regard for Anandamayi Ma also.  They used to go for satsang.  Satsang means some evening spiritual sessions of darshan, bhajans, like that, they used to go.  But that day, she was tired, but reluctantly she went when the eldest daughter insisted “Let us go there.”  When they went and they got out of the car, she was trembling, Kailash Kumariji.  She was trembling and as they went, they saw both Swamiji and Anandamayi Ma sitting on the same dais and giving darshan.  Lot of crowds were there, there were all coming, and I think she went into trance, and she went and fell on Swamiji and was holding His feet for long time.  Then she came back, she had fallen in love with Swamiji, that was it.  Next morning, she took all the family members.  She forgot to understand the timings of darshan or the program.  She was so mesmerized and intoxicated.  She didn’t look into any protocols at all.  Early morning six-thirty, she straight away went there.  Then one of Swamiji’s attendants was there.  So, she asked, “We have come to see Swamiji.”  He said, “This is not the time.  You have to come at eleven o’clock; that is the darshan time, appointment time.”  She used to recall this.  So, by then, Swamiji came out, suddenly, luckily.  He probably was coming out for a walk or something like that.  Then He saw these people.  So, He asked, “Okay, okay, come, come, come.”  He went and sat inside.  When these people went and had darshan, so when Swamiji asked, “Do you have anything to ask?”  She said, “I have everything of this world, richness, wealth, everything is there.  I just want peace of mind, spiritual blessings from You.  I think I have fallen in love with You.  I just want You.”  Like that, she said.  “Okay, okay,” He blessed and gave some vibhuti to all of them.  Then she used to take it, then we returned.  Then for both the morning and evening programs, she started going.  She asked all her relatives; a lot of relatives were in Dehradun, everybody to come and visit Swamiji, she used to tell.  She was one such lady whom I had met who understood the spiritual heights of Swamiji also.  At the same time, one should not go for blind faithism also, she understood.  She used to talk like that.  That was all the Anandamayi Ma’s.  That was Her role, to facilitate Kailash Kumariji to meet Swamiji.  Only one-time Swamiji went, and after that it never happened again. 

   Then she started coming to Mokhampur, where Swamiji was camping every time, and she used to attend satsang.  So, when she attended, she asked the attendant…  She was one such lady.  She thought, “How will Swamiji’s daily rations or food, other things are looked after?”  She asked, “Can we also contribute something?  How does your food, everything happen?”  So, that man, she used to recall jokingly, “Everything happens automatically, maataji.”  Then she, Kailash Kumarji, she told me, “Seenu Baba, I noticed nothing was happening automatically.  They were all in trouble.  They were not getting proper rations.  In that aarathi, the offerings were not coming.”  Only a little bit of money used to come, sometimes they used to get or sometimes they used to bring some idlis from the nearby canteen, eat and keep quiet, so that was all.  So, then we noticed, and then she brought all the wheat flour, rice, everything to them and helped them to cook the food.  She quickly understood what is happening. 

   Well, now other points, what I am trying to convey is Swamiji followed protocol.  He was a very unique Master.  She invited Swamiji, “Swamiji, please visit our house, I would like to organize some program.”  First thing Swamiji said, “If I come, you must allow all common people.  It should not be restricted only to your relatives or royal people or the rich people.  Anybody should be welcomed; you must open your gates.  So, then only I will come.”  She agreed happily, “I will be very happy to allow all public to come for Your darshan, but please come.  Next point, look, Lamba brought me here, so it is proper that you talk to Mr. Lamba first, as a protocol, to ask him to either bring me or allow me to come to your place.”  So, she used to say, she went and asked Lamba, twice or thrice she asked, but all three times he refused, “No, no, no, no.  Swamiji will not go anywhere else, I cannot bring him.” Then, frankly, she went and spoke to Swamiji, “Swamiji, look, You are a yogi.  I have fallen in love with You.  I am inviting You out of my devotion.  Now it’s up to You.  You want to come to my home, You come.  If you don’t want to come, You don’t come.  It’s up to You.”  Swamiji smiled, “Okay, okay, maataji.  I will come.  Go.”  And two, three days later, Swamiji… both from Swamiji’s mouth also I have heard and from her mouth also I have heard.

Now from Swamiji’s mouth – Swamiji used to go on the Mussoorie hills, on the Rajpur road where our Ashram is located now.  That is known as the Rajpur road, and that is the approach road for Mussoorie hills.  He used to go in the midnight times, quietly sit somewhere, serenely, talk to His boys, and they used to go in the car for an outing.  That was His outing of midnight time.  Daytime He would never come out, so nobody should see Him, that type; He used to be busy in programs.  So, that night, they went on Mussoorie hills, and on their way back, He wanted the boys to look into this building, 180-C number.  The building’s name was given as Shahkambari, where now I am based, Shivabalayogi Ashram.  They looked and the gate was locked.  He asked to two boys, “No problem.  You jump and go and see if anybody is inside.  Careful, if some dogs are there.  You carry some biscuits also”  He told, Swamiji. [laughs]

That biscuit story also – here, in Bachsingh Lamba’s house, when Swamiji wanted to come for a walk in the complex like this, she would let lose her dog also, deliberately so that Swamiji should not come out like that.  That was the thing.  Then Swamiji got some biscuits from His boys, “Next time you bring biscuit also.”  Then He put a biscuit also; and that dog became very friendly.  When after the walk Swamiji was sitting, Swamiji used to tell, and the dog was sitting next to Him, very friendly.  The lady comes out, “Ah, my God, this dog is not barking, it is so friendly with You.  What did You do to this?”  You had done some magic.”  Swamiji said, “No, maataji, is not this animal much, much better than human beings.  Just with one biscuit, it became so friendly and faithful to me.  In spite of the blessings I have given to your husband, you refuse to give food to my boys who have come with all the total faith, all the long distance.”  Swamiji used to tell, “I told this to her – she turned her face and went inside.”  That was it. 

   So, then now from Mussoorie hills, Swamiji was coming in the night.  So, He asked the boys to jump inside and go.  So, they went inside. When they heard the sound, the lights were on, all the residents, they came out, Maharani Kailash Kumariji and her children, everybody came out.  They were thrilled and surprised.  They opened the gate and Swamiji was brought inside.  Swamiji came to the portico, they had an aarathi plate with camphor, some flower garlands, and some coconut also.  These are the items to offer as a reception when they receive a yogi or a Guru like that.  So, they received, and they washed Swamiji’s feet, they did aarathi to Him and broke a coconut.  And then Swamiji said, “I have not yet informed Mr.  Lamba, so just now I need to go back there.  Tomorrow morning, I will come to your house here.  I will camp here.  We can do some programs.”  That Swamiji used to say. Then Swamiji’s attendant for long years, he used to live in Adivarapupeta, he also used to recall with me.  He was surprised, “How come maataji knew that Swamiji would come in those midnight hours of one or one-thirty?” He asked afterwards, “Maataji, did you know Swamiji would come at that time?”  She said, “Swamiji is a yogi.  I thought if He wants to come, what is the day, what is the night for Him? He can come any moment.  So, I had ordered all the twenty-four hours for the reception items to be kept ready.”  That was the devotion and attachment she had developed to Swamiji.  So much of love had come. 

   So now from Swamiji’s mouth.  Swamiji used to say, “Next day I packed up all my things and called Lamba.  ‘Hey Lamba, namaste, I’m going.’  He took the suitcase, I came.”  That was it; afterwards, He never went there – 1966.  So, I went to the Dehradun Ashram in 1974.  In 1983, look at the grace of a yogi.  After all, she had given a little bit of food to Swamiji, though she was very inhospitable to other people who accompanied Swamiji.  He wanted to bless her.  I took milk to Swamiji in the early morning, at 3.30.  Swamiji told me, “Eh, Seenu I had a dream.  In the dream, a radio news comes, ‘Mr. Bachsingh Lamba is dead’.  Now what you do, you find out the telephone number and call them.  Find out if he is dead or he is alive, what is happening.  Mr.  Lamba.”  That’s how a yogi remembered His devotee.  Lamba was very devoted, Swamiji used to tell.  So, then some devotees had come from Sambar Lake, another township.  They were relatives to him, they had the number.  From them I took.  At 7:30 morning after Swamiji’s oil massage, I called them and spoke.  Mr. Lamba himself, spoke to me.  I didn’t tell about Swamiji’s dream.  I told him, “Swamiji was remembering.  He is camping here in the Dehradun Ashram.”  He was happy that Swamiji remembered.  “I would like to come and see Swamiji, Mr. Dixit, but I cannot drive in the nights when it is dark.  My eyes are not good.  If Swamiji permits, I would like to come at 4:30 or 5 o’clock.”  I told Swamiji. [Swamiji:] “Ahh, he is coming on the track.  Let him come – at 5 o’clock, give him time.”  So, in the evening I gave him 5 o’clock time.  He came with his wife, but his wife was paralyzed.  He brought her also in the car.  Then Swamiji was so gracious, compassionate.  “After all she hosted me for a few days.  This is time, I need to give her darshan, so bring her upstairs.”  Me and another boy, we went and lifted her, brought her to the upstairs hall, where Swamiji was sitting.  She was crying, she couldn’t talk or she couldn’t express anything.  “Look at her, look at her” Swamiji said, “So much of opportunity, fortune was given to her, but she didn’t know how to utilize that, she just lost it, she just took one small chocolate, I could have given her supermarket.”  Like that Swamiji was talking that day.  He gave darshan.  After the darshan was over, Lamba also spoke for some time, they took prasad, and we just brought her down again, made her sit in the car and went away.  Fifteen days later she passed away.  In spite of all that Swamiji so compassionately gave darshan to her before she was to leave the body.  So, you never know the grace of a yogi, where and how it goes to whom.

   Now, present day, some of our people, because one person who was my devotee, he left me ten years ago due to some misunderstanding, and after ten years suddenly he regretted, and he remembered me; he wanted to come back.  I permitted, “You are most welcome.”  They came here also, they stayed, we all showed so much of love, they were overwhelmed.  But the person, the organizer who was in charge of our Mission, he was very furious, “How come Babaji allowed him to come back?”  So, he left me, accusing me that I am not Self-realized.  Just to tell this, we are obliged to give darshan, means that is my Guru‘s order, that Divine’s ordainment if he was to have my darshan. Means, always, we don’t plan, we don’t have to advertise: the Divine brings all such people who are supposed to receive our blessings.  So, those who are not fortunate, they don’t receive, they become egoistic and go away.  Both ways, we don’t know what to do.  

Ma Ambaji:   What about the lady saint she asked? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Lady saint afterwards, that was all.  So, afterwards, there was no connection between her and Swamiji.  Swamiji also never went.  Swamiji was busy, and she also didn’t come, didn’t talk to her.  Swamiji used to say “She is a saint, noble soul.  Great saint, She goes into a trance all the time; She is in the trance of Lord Shiva”, He used to tell.  So, just because of Her name, all these things came and I just thought of rekindling the story, beautiful things. 

Question:   Did Swamiji used to sing Hanuman Chalisa?

Babaji Maharaj:   Hanuman Chalisa He didn’t do, but He was fond of both Hanuman and Rama.  He used to take a lot of Rama’s name.  He used to sing Rama bhajans quietly when He was alone, He used to talk.  But to me, He spoke of Hanuman’s devotion – Hanuman and Rama’s fight I have told the story, hundreds of times He would have told me in those twenty years.  Whenever He scolded me He used to tell it, just to tell about the faith.  That was one sentence Swamiji used to tell, “Even Rama planned to murder his own devotee, Hanuman, but Hanuman never gave up Rama’s name, that should be the faith, do you understand?  Because I have scolded you, you must be thinking that you want to run away now from me.”   

   I won’t tell the story, don’t worry.  [Maharaj takes a gentle funny dig at Ma Ambaji.]

Question:   Could Babaji speak about the Hanuman Chalisa?

Babaji Maharaj:   Hanuman Chalisa is composed by Tulsidas.  Tulsidas has composed this very beautifully.  I learnt it in seventies, and then I used to sing.  Swamiji liked that one, but He Himself didn’t sing that one.  So, afterwards also we have been singing in our evening satsangs’ bhajans.  But about ten-fifteen years ago we picked up the morning chants, I think.  I just thought that all those people who stay in the ashram might feel inspired to gather at one place for a satsang, so that’s when I started doing.  Then Swamiji’s stotram, Hanuman Chalisa, a little bit of Rama’s name, to give a satsang for everybody apart from meditation, chants.  So, when we established temples here, we started doing the abhishekam and everything here also, and wherever we are, Hanuman is there, He is very dearer to us.  His character is so wonderful.  He Himself, as Sage Vashista talks, was a great Self-realized soul, but He never became a Guru or considered Himself as a Guru; He remained in the dasya bhava.  Dasya means as a servant of Lord Rama.  So, He served Rama all the time; He worked for Rama and He took Rama’s name.

Question:   Did characters like Hanuman really exist?

Babaji Maharaj:   They were definitely in this world.  To be more precise for your question, always what would have happened – a truth is there, around that, some myths are likely to have been built up from time to time, other things, that is one thing.  For historians, for other critics it is totally different, for devotional people like us, it is totally real. He was there, He is there and He is going to be there, all that we have to have is that faith, and remember Hanuman and Hanuman is there for us all the time, totally real as Rama and Hanuman. As real as Clifford and Babaji sitting here, Hanuman and Rama were also there.  

Question:   What is the meaning of the saying ‘The Divine is like the ghee inside the milk’?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see the space; space doesn’t appear to be anything.  That’s because since childhood you have been fed with a particular definition, this as the void place; void place means just nothing, just the space, that type of thing.  So, that’s why it is sitting in everybody’s mind, but in this only the Supreme Consciousness is there. Just like the sweetness in the sugar, how it is hidden; you cannot show the sweetness, but sugar can be seen. Space can be seen, but you cannot see the divinity in this, because ignorance is there, experience is not there. So the moment you experience, if you see the sugar you will understand there is sweetness in the sugar.  Like that, divinity also is all pervaded; it is in the space, but due to lack of experience or a non-understanding and lack of proper knowledge, ignorance and misbeliefs, it doesn’t appear to be there, that’s all.  For that only scientifically now in my teachings we have been trying to give the clue – your mind is there; you won’t say there is no mind, yet you cannot show your mind to anybody and you yourself have not seen the mind.  Only clue is, based on the thoughts and visions that are in the mind you recognize “My mind has these things, my mind wants to go there, my mind wants to do this, I want to do this, I want to be sitting.”  Like this language you talk, but what is this mind itself?

So that is possible to observe or visualize or understand when you get rid of all thoughts and visions that are in the mind, all imaginations done, when it regains the purest form. The nearest clue I can imagine is that it is the combination of consciousness and energy.  Consciousness means wherever you apply that – like your consciousness, if you apply onto me when I am talking, you will become aware of what I am trying to convey. Otherwise your consciousness in imagination might run away anywhere else, and even though you are watching me, you appear to be listening to me when I talk, you may not be listening actually because your consciousness, attention is somewhere else. So that is the essence of what consciousness means.  So, that mind is the consciousness and energy combination, but it is invisible.  Just like in the mind there is consciousness and energy, just like the ghee in the milk, the divinity is.  These are some examples; some ancient teachers have told.  Even Vashista says in Yoga Vashista also, but once you meditate, you will also understand practically.  The mind is the nearest clue, immediate clue that is with you, it is in front of you, yet you don’t see that one. 

Question:   What is the energy version of applying attention?

Babaji Maharaj:   Consciousness is able to be creative and spin and imagine due to the presence of energy in it, that is the energy. That spinning of the mind from the stillness and becoming creative is where the energy works; that is the presence of energy that can be understood or recognized. 

Question:   Is energy actually the life?  When death happens is there no energy?

Babaji Maharaj:   Along with the consciousness – energy, they both are inseparable actually, consciousness and energy.  Both would have withdrawn, and they have become unconscious of the surroundings or the body once death happens.  Until that consciousness does not assume a next incarnation, it won’t recollect anything of the created world. 

Question:   How does energy exist in its pure form?

Babaji Maharaj:   Energy also is pure.  Though it can move the dust, but it itself does not become dust, never becomes.  Ask any scientist also, energy can move dust, but it itself will not get dirty, because it is invincible, infinite in form. 

Question:   Babaji has said that “Consciousness can consider but energy cannot consider.”

Babaji Maharaj:   What I would have tried to tell – like a tsunami happens, the enormous energy is let loose; just for example I am talking.  Then when it flows, it does not see whether the person is innocent, wicked or a genius or a noble, whichever, whoever comes on the way, it engulfs and finishes that one; something like that.  So, when the sages saw, they prayed to that energy to get converted, to become compassionate, transform itself as mother concept.  That also, the story is said, my Guru also used to talk, in the beginning of creation, when Rudra appeared, because He appeared in the space He started shouting, “Who am I, how did I appear like this?”  Ashariravaani, the voice from the depth of space gave this technique, first time – “Just sit down, closing the eyes, watch in-between the eyebrows, you will know from where you came and who you are”.  Then He went into deep samadhi, creation could not continue.  Then illusion was created, enormous amount of energy.  When the creation happened, this energy, due to its friction, created fire also, so all the creation was engulfed by that.  That is when the story says,  all the Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, sages, they prayed to that enormous energy of the Divinity to transform itself as Adi Paraa Shakti, Goddess, mother concept.  They thought of the mother concept as the most compassionate in the creation, who would forgive her children unconditionally; they do not even have to apologize to the mother; she would forgive and all such things.  So, that type of concept they thought, and if she cools down and becomes compassionate, then that energy is said to have given up that creation from her womb.  That is how she came to be known as Bhuvaneshwari.  Bhuvana means, she gave up or gave out all the worlds, Bhuvana chathurdasha Prasa vini Ma.  She was known as Bhuvaneshwari.  That is how the male, female concept – concepts have been explained.  Because always to explain, mind is used to sound and sight.  We have to use some nearest imaginations of concept of either of a sound or some scene, appearance; other than that the Infinity cannot be explained.  That is why they said ‘Tattva, That.’  What is that?  Simply, that.  When you reach the Ultimate Truth, you become quiet, silent.  That is what I would have tried to tell.  

Question:   Can we consider our mind as a portion of space?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, yes, definitely. Precisely if I have to define in present-day terminologies, imagine you are this space that is all pervaded, not this single body.  In the body, this consciousness is stuck, which has given you as an individual imagined self, which is not the truth actually.  Because of the brain’s reflection, your consciousness has shifted to the body, giving you this as a personality and as the ‘me’ and then the ‘mine’; that is how the ego starts for a person, ‘me’ and ‘mine’.  Slowly they become selfish and narrow-minded. Instead of the universal consciousness, they lose that one and become the individual consciousness.  So, more than that is connected to the body, they cannot think of anything else, so that is what happened.  That has happened to every soul.  So, to overcome that is the practice of spiritual exercises, like meditation and all things.  In fact religion was also taught for this purpose only.  It is unfortunate today that religion has been misunderstood, misinterpreted, misused.  In that name, people are into conflicts and control the communities – that is totally different.  The basic idea of religion means your obligation towards your body’s health, your mental health and your obligation to uphold moral values.  These three things combined if you are practicing you are a real religious person, the rest is all simply rubbish.  

Question:   If we are able to ‘just watch’ in meditation, is the thing that we are watching Tattva or the space?

Babaji Maharaj:   If you just watch and don’t do anything else, then automatically those two thoughts, the thoughts all disappear.  So, only that – what just as an example I talk of as the gap, but that’s what is you, you get to watch yourself; become aware of yourself.  The day you are able to achieve that, everything dissolves, then it’s you. 

Question:   What is unconditional love?

Babaji Maharaj:   You love somebody without any expectations, and you don’t need anything; you love because you love, that’s all.  Like in Ramakrishna Paramahamsa’s story also, sometimes He used to ignore His disciples.  Vivekananda had fallen in love with Him.  He never bothered whether Ramakrishna loved Him or not; Vivekananda loved Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.  We all loved our Guru, we never bothered whether He loved me or not.  I never thought.  That thought never came.  So, there were no expectations.  If He wanted me to keep dusting His abode all my life, I would have been happy that my incarnation has happened to dust the ashrams.  So, like that, unconditional love.  If it is conditional, then love becomes lust and greed.  It will not be love.  So, you love somebody, you have some expectations; if that thing doesn’t come, then you lose that love, all. So, that’s how devotees lose love for the Master also, if they had some other expectation, what we call it as a personal agenda, then that was not the love to the Master, they accuse the Master and go away.  So, that is what unconditional love means.  

Question:   Despite some devotees’ bad behavior, Babaji still opens the doors of the Ashram to all.

Babaji Maharaj:   So, what happens, as a yogi we let go of the past; it’s over.  If in the present that person has changed, still loves me and wants the spiritual values that I teach, I am not going to change myself for anybody’s sake.  Whoever comes, I will be teaching this philosophy only, and whatever is possible we are able to provide in the ashram. Like, we have tried to provide you a room, attached bath, as much facilities as possible.  So, if that is not satisfying you, I am helpless, I cannot satisfy you with much more than that.  If that is acceptable, if anybody is ready to change and comes, loves, we are ready to welcome them. Already I have forgiven, there is nothing, we don’t hold anything; nothing is there in my mind.  If at all I scold any such devotee, I talk about such a person to anybody, it is out of compassion, so that they don’t acquire karmas.  If they had talked nonsense about me, we don’t want them to acquire karmas; they will acquire karmas because their consciousness has become dirty, so that could be a casualty for them.  So, to balance that one, if I scold then and there itself, it gets cleared; that will be blessings to them.  That’s what Swamiji used to tell, “We can never do harm to anybody because the yogi’s mind is the pure consciousness.  Even if I slap on somebody that will be blessings for that somebody.”  He used to tell jokingly also, “If I smile at you, I can give you the empire of the world.  If I get annoyed, I can liberate you.”  Like that He has told, a couple of times I have heard it.  So, that is the essence.  

   There is another example which impressed me, in Ramayana. When Sri Rama was camping in Rameshwaram just before crossing the ocean to go to Sri Lanka to fight with Ravana, Vibhishana comes to surrender to Rama.  He left his brother, after his brother accused him of treacherous things.  Then he comes to Rama.  Then first Lakshmana and other vanaras are apprehensive, “These are the demons, they are illusion experts.  He might be coming to spy, he should not be allowed to come here, and we must go and stop him, beat him up and send him away.”  To this, Rama composed and peacefully tells Lakshmana, “Let alone Vibhishana, even if Ravana comes also, I will allow him to come to me.  I won’t doubt him that he is evil.  Such a thing doesn’t come to me at all.  If he comes and surrenders, I will immediately forgive.  I will let go of everything.  I don’t have any grudge against him, that he took away my wife or that she is there in all the trouble.”  So, that was the magnanimity of Rama.  That had such an impact on our minds, beautiful.

Question:   Can Babaji explain the meaning of the ‘Sahana Vavatu’ chant?

Babaji Maharaj:   May I be able to do the sadhana inthe same way as my Guru and achieve the same highest truth that my Guru has achieved.  Finally, may there never be any enmity between me and my Guru.  Bless me for that.  No jealousy towards my Guru.  My mind should not go haywire; inspire my wisdom please, always. 

Om sahana vavatu, sahanau bunaktu, sahaveeryam karavavahaii, tejasvina vadhee tamastu, ma vidvisha vahaii,

Om shanti, shanti, shanti hi.

May there be peace between me and my Guru.

Question:   The importance of humility to the Guru. 

Question:   Swamiji used to put it very beautifully, in a simple language way. There is a person, and he begets a son.  To his son, he is a father.  Then his son also grows up, gets married and he begets a son.  He has become a father to his son, but to his father he is always a son.  He cannot become a father to his father.  In the same way – like there is Guru and a disciple.  So, tomorrow you all might consider me as a Guru.  To you I am a Guru, but to my Guru, I am only a disciple at His lotus feet.  I cannot become Guru to my Guru.  That is what one has to remember always. 

Question:   Why do people say that one should keep a middle distance to the Guru?

Babaji Maharaj:   Middle distance, Veda Vyasa talks this. You must maintain a middle distance so that you do not lose that reverence.  If you go too close, He will also appear as an ordinary person eating puffed rice and having a cup of tea like you are only and talking this and that.  “O, this is all.  I can also do all these things.  He is also talking.  If He gives a talk, I can also give talk.  If He talks about dhyana, I can also talk about dhyana.”  All these things come to mind, but if you go away far away also you will be neglected, because the Guru is in His samadhi and busy in His work.  You should keep coming middle distance with all the reverence.  Never lose that reverence to the Master even if you go closer; that is important.  Remember what He is.  

Question:   People seem to have an expectation of what a yogi should be.

Babaji Maharaj:   If they have developed their own imaginations without trying to see and understand, that is when they can misunderstand, simply.  Like, by reading books somebody might be thinking, “A yogi has to be sitting under a tree, just not wear any proper clothes, torn clothes and He should not be eating properly.  He should be like that.”  My mother taught me, the first time, I remember – first day when I met my Guru,  
He was invited into an ashram and they washed His feet and they offered some flowers, and they offered a garland of Indian rupee notes, 100-rupee notes.  I was very young.  I did not know the world.  It was a bit peculiar for me.  He was with just a loin cloth.  I did not blame my Guru, but I thought, why should they try to bind the yogi?  He is just with a loin cloth.  He does not need anything of the world.  I did not express to anybody else, but I expressed to my mother.  “I saw this thing, but I do not know why they should bind the yogi.  Leave Him free” – without blaming Swamiji  I thought, “Leave Him to Himself.  He is free.”  My mother said, “It’s not like that. If a saint is sitting under a tree, He may not need anything.  Anybody gives any food, He will eat and just keep quiet, but if anybody has established an ashram, there will be electricity, there will be a telephone, there will be fifty people to eat.  For all these things money is needed to manage the ashram.  Jokingly she was telling, “If you become a manager of the ashram you will understand this.”  Perhaps at that moment she would not have even dreamt that I will go to an ashram and become a manager.  It came true and I got to see that one.  I saw penniless days in the ashram also; sometimes it happened.  We saw such hardships.  

So, devotees came and went away.  Hardly few people ever bothered how we were living, how the ashram is run.  They just come and eat and go; they do not think how this huge ashram is maintained, how this is managed without we contributing something.  The people think, “O, they are collecting and they stashed money in the almirah, so much of money”, but everything goes to maintaining.  If you see, building these things did not come for free, contractors charged, masons charged, labor charged, materials were charged.  For all this where the money comes?  When we fly in the aircraft, airlines charge us.  It is not my uncle’s.  But many people do not realize or think about this, why do we need money, “Why does Swamiji need money, why does Babaji need money?  He robs other people.  The person accused recently who went away.  He wrote emails to everyone and telephoned everyone, “Babaji has collected so much of money.  He keeps asking money, He collects money, and all His family people live luxuriously because what we give.”  All the family people contribute to this ashram also.  Bharati contributes from her pension every month, her son contributes every month, donations, but people do not realize these things.  These worldly things also we need to understand, it’s necessary.  My elder brother also contributes whenever he comes here.  He contributes for functions, everything; they don’t eat freely ever.  They are all well off so that I don’t have to need.  All of you are my family, all of you are my children, everywhere, so I would love to be with you all more than anybody else, but prarabdha again, it’s funny.  Still we forgive them, we love them, we pray, “May the Divine bless and set right their prarabdha so that they be benefited.”  After all, they stayed with us for some time, they should be benefited.  

Question:   Are there many other Realized souls hidden around the world, unrecognized?

Babaji Maharaj:   There could be definitely in Himalayas, or quietly in secluded spots, there are.  Some who have a mission rarely come in the midst of public, because this is a higher skill to teach… in my Guru’s words, Swamiji’s words; “To be in the midst of human beings is the most difficult thing”, He used to tell.  “To do tapas is very easy.  I just had to keep quiet, just watching and not do anything, and simply twelve years passed by, but when I tried to establish ashram and tried to teach people to meditate, they ate me up.  I would tell “Meditate” and they would come up with an idea, “Swamiji if I don’t do meditation, if I do some fasting, is it okay?”  Hey, do your interest, what can I say”.  So, like that hardly people learned.  Thirty-three years He was with them.  After thirty-three years still they are confused.  

Question:   How many people in the world are sincerely seeking spirituality?

Babaji Maharaj:   Thousands of years ago Sri Krishna has told in Bhagavad Gita, “One in millions gets inspired to go on this path.  One in millions amongst them, one really tries to tread the path.  Amongst them one in a million, once in ages achieves the truth.  Such is the rarest of rare things.  Arjuna, you must put an effort.  Sincerely, before death shall claim thee, go to the knowers of truth.  With all your humility, seeking their permission, put such intelligent questions, and adopting such methods, advocated by them, achieve the truth to yourself.”  So, if all these things, qualities are there, humility with a Master, then you will be serious to do sadhana.   If you are arrogant, you won’t do sadhana at all; that doesn’t come.  So, that’s what happens.  Years ago, during our college time that we read in Reader’s Digest, an anecdote, “By paying too much attention to others’ faults, we die before having had the time to know our own.” 

Question:   Did Swamiji say that one of His purposes was to awaken the dormant spirituality in people?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, that was His mission, the purpose He came to the world.  He tried to awaken them.  He tried to bless them.  He tried to give darshan.  He wanted them to put in effort.  He emphasized, “Sadhana is necessary, sadhana.”  Sadhana means your efforts to achieve.  The word used in ancient scriptures is Purushaarta, your efforts.

End of Session