Recorded on 27 January 2024 with worldwide participants.

0:00 Introduction from Babaji
1:03 Can Babaji explain how we are beyond the birth and death of this body?
6:05 Is it because of the imaginations and tendencies that we have acquired that this birth and death appears to us?
10:53 If in this lifetime we cannot achieve Self-Realization, what happens?
15:51 What is Mahasamadhi?
20:06 Is it not enough just to be tired of this world and desire not to be reborn?
22:40 Is it because we are born to our parents that we don’t question why it has happened?
32:15 Will all individual souls all eventually go back to the Self?
33:27 When someone close to you dies, in most religions we pray for them, is that beneficial?
34:48 Are chakras and kundalini myths because they are simply a part of our imagination?
37:07 The sensation of descending back into the body after experiencing silence in meditation.
38:34 Can we benefit from being in samadhi for 1 hour a day?
40:18 During meditation how can we stop the mind conversing with itself?
41:48 Can we tell the mind to just ‘shut up and focus’?
42:35 How did Swamiji come to know of stories from the scriptures?
44:10 Are animals also individual souls?
45:12 What is experienced in the last breath of life?
46:24 Are our good habits as involving in the world as our bad habits?
47:56 When we pray to Swamiji are we praying to the Divinity?
49:17 What is the inherent meaning of the dance of Shiva with the dead body of Uma on his shoulder?

Beyond Birth and Death | In Quest of Truth – Q&A with Babaji, No. 161

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/dUKOtwnyibI
Recorded on 27 January 2024 with worldwide participants

Shri Babaji:

May the Divine Guru bless you all to feel inspired, and to be able to put an effort to stop yourself from consistently thinking, worrying, wondering; all these effects may stop! There is nothing to wonder, nothing to worry, nothing to know. Nothing to gain, nothing to lose. You have everything; you have your peace, if only you can be quiet. So, that is the practice, that is the effect, another opportunity for you just learn to watch, and nothing else.

Questioner:

The topic today, Babaji, is ‘Beyond birth and death’. And the first question, Babaji, Most people believe that it is we who are born and it is we who die when this body dies. But Babaji mentions that in fact our real existence is beyond this birth and death of the body. Can Babaji please explain this?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, why I have spoken and I keep talking about this in my answers or the talks, in meditation, when you successfully get rid of all imaginations of thoughts, visions, and the mind becomes totally quiet, then its attention turns to itself. That is when you discover your consciousness of existence is from there. And that thing is definitely not the physical body, it is beyond. It is neither hidden in the body nor inside the body as a dweller. It is beyond. At that time of deeper meditation, one would lose even the consciousness of body and surroundings also. Based on these observations only, we can definitely make out the body is born and the body is going to die. That means here, our understanding should be, when the body dies, it will become extinct. After that it has to be cremated or buried; whatever it is, it will go back to its five elements from which it has been made. And it will lose its shape and it no more works or talks or does anything once the brain is dead.

But as we are aware of ourselves in this body also, and as we feel as if we are born, so definitely a rebirth happens if the mind is not cleared and it has not become quiet. Based on its imaginations and desires which form the intensity of thoughts, it gets detached from the brain when the brain dies. That means it has nothing to do with that physical body. It forgets totally all the things that happen in that life, exact location where it was born, why it was born, nothing is there. It carries the thoughts, process in a symptomatic way, symptom like, and it assumes its next incarnation and totally forgets about the previous life. When I am talking of symptoms, symbolically, all this, it carries an attitude, or temperamental things, the mind, because of its habits of being with the previous brain. Like that, since time immemorial it is carrying.

So, this is what actually happens, that means it is beyond the birth and death of the physical body. The mind or consciousness or our Self, our real Self is going to be there eternally. So, what we need to take care is that it is able to settle down peacefully, instead of moving from body to body and getting reborn again and again, getting involved into this world of happiness and happiness, good and bad dualities, everything. So, that is what the recommended thing is. That is why we try to tell, “You are much more beyond the birth and death of the physical body, you are going to be there eternally”. So, you need to take care of yourself. As somebody, some people would believe that we are just born with this body as the body and we will end. So, then you could have lived any way of life. But if that were the thing, first, this body itself, your consciousness itself wouldn’t have come into existence at all if it was not there. Not that with the body it comes and it goes away. That consciousness assumes the body because of its imaginations. This is what you are able to observe in deeper meditations when the attention goes on to that consciousness of existence.

Questioner:

Thank you, Babaji. So, essentially it is like an illusion that this mind or this consciousness has created and it is because of these imaginations, these tendencies that we have acquired, that is why all of this birth and death appears to us. Is that correct?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, it has got involved into the illusion. When the body is born, when the consciousness gains the consciousness of surroundings and the world, it starts thinking that it is the one who is born. Whereas it was the body that is born. Because of the birth of the body, it appears as if we are born. When the body is going to die, we start thinking that we are going to die. Whereas, we are not going to die, we will always be there as the consciousness of existence, infinity. So, that’s what really happens. So, that’s what is the illusion that gets created. Even during your life on this earth, wherever your consciousness gets applied, you start feeling that one as if it is what you are.

Like, the best example is the watching of a movie that I keep telling. When you watch the movie, slowly your consciousness gets sucked into that and you forget the surroundings and that you are sitting in a body and watching the movie also. So, that movie appears to be real. So, as long as the movie is there, it is the movie which you feel as if you are; you are experiencing the good, bad, happiness, unhappiness, you are becoming a role in that movie so many ways. In the same way, the dream sequence also. As long as there is dream, you start thinking in the dream that you are experiencing all the things. Whereas all the characters all are generated from your own consciousness, within your mind. Nothing is out of the consciousness. That’s why others cannot see, only you get to see. Like whatever is in your mind, you get to see. So, whatever is in your dream, only you get to see that dream. Others will have to believe when you explain, “I dreamt like this. I am thinking like this, my mind wants to do like this”. Then others will have to take it granted or believe, “Oh yes, this person is saying so, he dreamt like this.” But you cannot also show the dream to anybody else, “See, this here, here is the place where I dreamt and this is how the dream came.” Some scientific research might tell that this brain’s portion makes this, this portion makes this, due to the research. That’s good knowledge. But yet, one cannot show that dream. It’s invisible and it is infinite. So, that is how things happen.

But the illusion gets created as if we are undergoing all the things of birth, death and life on this earth, everything. We are simply made to watch because we are stuck into the body’s brain’s reflections. So, just like the movie, we are so strongly stuck; we have gained the consciousness. For a while that is useful. Having the consciousness of this world, we are able to live in this world. But if we have the knowledge and wisdom thoroughly that we can live in this world, we can utilize everything that is available. As long as the body is available, we will utilize its services to talk to somebody, to live in this world, to move, to live a life, all these things will be possible only through this body. But as long as the body is available only this is possible. So, we will know the truth and we will utilize. Like, as long as this body is available, I will be able to teach you all through this body. I will continue to teach. But when this body has to go, it has to go, we will have to graciously accept. So, thus the knowledge would have been gained by spiritual practices and meditations when we are able to observe deeply about these truths.

Questioner:

Babaji, actually there is a question that came in; “If in this lifetime we are not able to achieve Self-Realization, then what happens? Does it mean that we miss divine Guru Babaji and we have to wait for another 55,000 life-cycles?”

Shri Babaji:

Not necessarily be, not like that, things will not go. When this body is available, you must use your abilities and sincerely understand the technique and put an effort as long as the body is available, without losing faith and without getting into any confusion, because when you lose faith and when you get confused, you will be wasting time and energies. Instead of this, if you put an effort and then for some reason when the body dies or finishes, nothing will go waste, because the mind would have acquired such attitude, such tendencies, all these things. It will carry to its next life. When it is born, it will have the inclination from an early childhood. It will assume such a birth by its abilities and visualizations. To the parents that it is born, it will be able to get good habits, what we call it as good samskaras and vasanas. Vasanas, the soul carries and good samskaras, basic nature is there. In addition, we get these things from parents and then the gurus and then other companies that we come across. We’ll be careful not to mingle with any other companies which can be disturbing these tendencies, thus we will become spiritual.

Like from childhood, we were spiritual. We used to have such botherations, such doubts, such thinkings about the spiritual truths. “Why is this happening? Why is that twenty-four hours, twelve months happiness is not there? Is there something wrong in me or something wrong in this world? If I am that soul or that atman, why is that I am not aware of it now? So, what is it that we need to be aware of?” So, all these things were coming which led us towards deeper practices of spiritual teachings of some great masters who have guided us through Upanishads, through their teaching. In the recent one or two centuries also, great masters have come. And a few centuries ago also, masters like Adi Shankara, Buddha, they all came and taught us. And then Ramana Maharishi, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, and many others, great teachers came and have taught us. So, we tried to follow them.

And our own Guru Maharaj, Shivabalayogi also came. He gave this technique, perfect technique. He did not talk much, but He gave this technique. “This is how you have to do,” He said this. “If you do that, you will get everything, you will know everything, you will know about yourself,” that’s what He said. That’s what will happen. Why He said so? Because your mind is preoccupied with its own imaginations, we repeatedly talk about this. It is now busy with its own thoughts and visions. If you just watch, that means you are slowly giving up the thinking habits, you are stopping yourself. As you stop yourself from thinking, the thoughts and visions already there in the mind as acquired habits or tendencies, they will all disappear. Then, finished. Then you become aware of the truth of yourself. It is the mind itself, is you. Actual mind is you, but now you try to know whatever is in the mind. But instead of that you try to know what the mind is – for that you have to become quiet. Through thinking and visualizing, any analyzing, you cannot know what the mind is. Because the moment mind thinks, it imagines a form, another thing other than the mind itself. So, if you become quiet, silent totally, then you come across the mind as it is, the infinite. It is there, it is not there, but consciousness of existence is there. So, that is how you will come across this, if you practice meditation.

Questioner:

Thank you Babaji. So Babaji, what is Mahasamadhi and what happens when a yogi drops the body?

Shri Babaji:

Mahasamadhi is the Ultimate Truth. We keep talking and trying to understand about the mind as the combination of consciousness and energy, and soul, all these things. This, if the soul or the mind is a droplet, it’s ultimate truth… Like, for example – example only, symbolically I am talking. Don’t imagine only the ocean. When we teachers talk, symbolically we might mention some names for sake of understanding. Just like, the ocean is to the droplet of the ocean, the divinity is to the mind. The ultimate truth is to the mind. So that’s how you have to understand without getting into the misunderstanding of, “Oh, it is like a ocean. Oh, is it water that means?” Don’t entertain this type of nonsense doubts. That is only told for example. Like, many teachers have told many terminologies for only symbolizing examples only. That is not the truth. Not even the jyoti, not even the light. Often light, it has been symbolically tallied or mentioned as a ‘jyoti,’ as a light, but it is not even the form of light. It is beyond light also. Light is one of the five elements, agni, that’s what we talk. Water, vayu, all these things. But the actual Self is beyond this.

Just like, the space is beyond five elements. It is not even one of the elements. Though the akashais said, akasha means they have added the space, but space is hardly visualized by people. They consider that as only a void. Only other elements like the agni, vayu, water, these things are always visualized because that is available to see or experience at least. Like, the energy is being able to experience the presence of energy. But the presence of consciousness you can experience only through your mind. That is the only gateway. Mind has to become quiet. It must become quiet so that it goes introvert and merges within itself. Introvert means, one should not imagine that it is somewhere here and it has to come down like this [points from the head to the chest]. Nothing. Nothing to do with this physical body. Within itself it goes introverted. Its attention goes to itself, it is there.

So, that is how you come across the truth. You have to overcome the symbolic terminologies, gestures and try to experience the truth; only then you will understand what it is. Otherwise, you might simply end up imagining the terminologies used as different things. Like, about kundalini, about so many things, misunderstandings are there. The energetic power, super power, this power, the serpent power, like this, so many people have their own understanding. So, that is why one important thing, without trying to define yourself in your mind, just become quiet through meditation, then you will know what it is. Of late, a couple of times in talks I have told, this truth is like, there is a dialogue, a person says, “You will understand, but you cannot make others understand”. So, it is like that, Self-Realization, when you go for that. So, you have to go for that, you have to have faith.

Questioner:

So, Babaji, it is not enough to be tired of all the physical suffering in the world and seeing one’s loved ones dying and thinking, “Right, I don’t want to be reborn anymore.” That’s not enough, is it, Babaji? We have to actually stop identifying ourselves?

Shri Babaji:

Identifying. You need to become restless. Till you don’t realize, you don’t become aware of the truth, you don’t stop your mind, every day, every moment you need to become restless. The day that happens, then you will go for that. That is how great masters achieved Self-Realization, when they become restless. Like Buddha, Bhagwan Buddha as Prince Siddhartha, He was going in a chariot outside His fort. Then He saw a dead body, saw an old person, an ill person, He became restless then. “Why should we become old? Why should we die? What is the secret? Who are we then?” He became and He gave up everything. We don’t advocate giving up everything. Because this is not the times properly. Simply by giving up things, one won’t achieve. Adopting such methods and doing such sadhana is what will take you there. You can be a householder. You can be a prince. You can have your palace. You can have your kingdom. Anything. No problem. Anything that you have adopted, a way of life. But simply, every day, take out time. Sit for that. Put an effort so that you simply stop the mind. That means you simply watch and you will not do anything. Practice that point. That is the true meditation. Until then, meditation will not happen or come. Don’t get involved into visions and thrills and all these things of action, thriller type of movies. We don’t need that while meditating. What we need is, we just have to watch. Then, the greatest wonder of actual action thriller will follow in the end. That is, you, yourself; the greatest wonder I have told.

Questioner:

Thank you Babaji. Babaji, it seems that when we are born, we get attached to the surroundings very immediately. We see the parents, the mother, and immediately we have a bond and we have an attachment. But Babaji also gives the example of the story of Rudra, who appeared in the space. And it appeared very peculiar that suddenly he appeared in the space. So, this world doesn’t appear peculiar to us, Babaji, because we become so accustomed to it. Is that the problem?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, that’s what I try to tell, one thing. Say, if you had been made to appear in the space suddenly, then you would have definitely wondered, how did you come into existence? “How did I come into existence like this in the body? Who made me to come like this?” But because the illusion has happened in this world, generation after generation, because of parents, children are born. So, then we simply take it granted that much; further we do not bother what the truth is. “I am born because of my parents. My parents brought me to this world and I am here.” So, next generation continues. So, further we never bother. We get involved into living in this world, becomes more prominent. “What type of life we need to have? How much highest status we need to achieve? What are the best comfortable things that we can get in this world?” And so on and on, hundreds and millions, all these we definitely bother. We definitely bother looking after this body. So, certain, at least some of these are very necessary. It is helpful; if the body is born, no harm in it. It is okay. And we, to look after this body also, is not a wrong thing. It is okay. We need to find some livelihood, some food for this body. But we need to be matured and wise that we simply give our energy and time only that much that is very much necessary. Not get involved totally that we are only for this purpose and nothing else. Like, for example, we need money to live in this world in a system that we have adopted. That’s okay. So, we need to earn some money. No problem, still. But not that we will live only to earn money and there is nothing else that matters for us. That is wrong. Then we will get carried away. We won’t know any better or highest truths about our existence about this world, so many things.

So, like that, we need to keep bothering and try to think. That’s what we miss in this world. And we never bother. As I told, instead of this, if God had made you simply appear in the space… that’s what the divine would have thought, probably. Like, Rudra appeared and he started shouting and then the technique came to him from the space and he went into samadhi. It didn’t happen. So then, “No, this is not proper. We need to create some illusion. Let them think that they are born because of their parents.” And they started thinking, “We are born because of our parents.” So, like this, the mind has come out. So, when that divinity, actual divinity, what is recognized as Parabrahma, does not think, has not imagined anything, has not created anything. It is in total stillness. That total stillness is what is known as ‘Mahasamadhi’. ‘Maha’ is the supreme, highest. ‘Samadhi’ is the stillness. It is simply still. And Vasistha uses another language, “It simply exists in itself as it is.” It doesn’t take shape of anything. It doesn’t become anything else. It is just there. So, that is what the actual Self is.

But for this, like the stories that have been told by Swamiji, used to tell me, I have heard him talking, “The first Supreme Consciousness, bigger, higher consciousness arose to create. They created, but did not get involved with the creation. They protected that creation with illusion, but did not get involved with that illusion. So, thus, these trinities, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva concepts are recognized as divine, divine personalities. But the Parabrahma is the ultimate beyond these things. That’s what the ‘Parabrahma’ word that is used, or ‘Tatva’ word has been used by ancient sages – ‘That,’ simply. That is the nearest imagination, nearest clue one could give. That’s the beauty that they have used that one. That is what is ‘in Mahasamadhi’.

So now, when a yogi, a person is considered as a yogi when he does tapas. Tapas means he has burnt out all habits of the mind. All tendencies are all burnt out, finished once for all. No tendencies are there. Neither good is there nor bad is there. Neither happiness is there nor unhappiness is there. It is supremely peaceful. Because people understand only the terminologies of this world. If we tell, “It is neither happiness nor unhappiness – of this world,” we add. The happiness of this world. The happiness that is found in this world. That’s what I’m talking. If you say that state is neither happiness or unhappiness ofthis world, that doesn’t mean that you are not going to have any happiness or peace at all. It is supremely peaceful. Beyond the imagination of this world, or the worldly people. You cannot imagine what type of peace that is, till you do not experience.

So, that is recognized with the word of Mahasamadhi by ancient teachers. A yogi, when He simply waits… That means we have also told, the future has been stopped because there is no desire; mind’s visualization has stopped. That is the technical thing. Mind doesn’t visualize anything, of any future, it doesn’t need anything. But whatever it had visualized previously, that will go on for some time. Like the best example Ramana Maharishi says, you stop the electric ceiling fan and for some time it will keep moving till it comes to a complete halt. Like that the body goes for a yogi for some more time. So, that time is utilized by the ordainment of the divinity to teach that Ultimate Truth, to talk about that Ultimate Truth, to answer about that Ultimate Truth.

This Ultimate Truth knowledge, you cannot get anywhere else. Even if you become emperor of the entire world, you cannot get this. You become the president of all countries, all together, also, you cannot get this. This knowledge and this wisdom. A master who would have achieved this only can give this, can talk about this. So, that’s how our great Master, Shivabalayogi, He gave this amazing technique. He wanted people to do. If people did not do, they went on doing something else, it was not His fault. He said, “You do this. You meditate and know yourself. Sit down meditate and know yourself. Take out some time. Take out one hour in a day. If you can take out two hours, if you can take out four hours, whatever possible. But in all that time, just try to watch only and don’t keep thinking. Don’t keep knitting stories. Don’t keep wondering about this world. Don’t get annoyed about this world. Don’t get irritated about this world. Don’t miss anything of this world,” He said. “Just do not notice this world,” He said. If this is possible for anyone; we do not impose this on anybody. If this is possible, then they burn out all tendencies. And after that drop of the body, a Mahsamadhi can happen. They become one. They will become totally still and no rebirth or no visualization is there.

Questioner:

Thank you Babaji. Babaji, does that means that all droplets, all individual souls will eventually go back to the Self? And does that mean this whole illusion will disappear? Or is that also an illusion?

Shri Babaji:

Definitely, it has to happen, because that is from where the droplets have come. So, it has to go back to its source. It’s a matter of time. As we talk, it can be 55,000 life cycles. Once you miss, unnecessarily you keep imagining, you get irritated, or if you can become quiet and peaceful, you practice to remain peaceful. That is also a great practice. Without waiting for any reason to become peaceful, you just try to become peaceful on your own. Like yesterday’s quote also, yesterday are some two, three days ago, “You don’t have to depend on your life to become peaceful. If you just practice to remain peaceful, you can have peace all the time”.

Questioner:

Babaji, just a final question if that’s okay. “When someone close to you dies, when their body dies, in most religions, we pray for them. Is that beneficial for them?”

Shri Babaji:

See, praying is always beneficial. Prayer for the person who is praying will be beneficial to cool down that person’s mind and to purify that person’s mind. So, thus it can get in touch with the divinity. So, thus it might be praying for the departed soul also in a positive way; somewhere that can affect, that can be beneficial. Though there may not be a conclusive answer, this is my opinion. So, prayers are always recommended. At least, instead of gossiping with a dead body or simply crying and wasting our energy, instead if we pray to the Divine is a much better exercise.

Questioner:

Namaste, Babaji. You were talking about the chakras and kundalini, etc., all being myths. Are you saying that because it is just an imagination? Our very existence is an imagination, and therefore, whatever we do in this life, is not real, but real in the sense that we are dreaming and we want everything to be nice, and we want to be positive. So, does it mean that we are manifesting our lives through our imagination and the energy we hold in our minds?

Shri Babaji:

That is true, but one important thing, I will again come back to you for your question. Another important thing when I was trying to explain, not that I told that the kundalini or any such thing is a myth. Understanding about the kundalini is myth. I told, ancient teachers used certain terminologies. Terminologies means, in other words, defining that was the nearest imagined clue that they could give. Because the Ultimate Truth is beyond all terminologies. That’s why they used. But that terminology has been misunderstood by many people thinking it to be different. Like the serpent power kundalini is considered as a serpent. But a teacher would have used it symbolically, ‘it rises like a serpent’. Rising like a serpent and a serpent rising, they too are totally different. So, that’s what I was trying to tell. Now, you can go further for your questions.

Questioner:

Yeah, so I was saying that is it simply part of our imagination? Does experiencing samadhi make us get detached from anything we perceive in the world and stop imagining?

Shri Babaji:

Exactly, yes.

Questioner:

But with our meditations of one hour or two hours or whatever, is it… Like today, when I was meditating, I just felt like I went into silence and then there was no texture to it. But I don’t know whether that is samadhi. But when it was time to open the eyes, I felt like I was descending back into the body. I slowly became aware of my body. And that, I don’t know what to make of it.

Shri Babaji:

It is a good experience. What we can tell is, it’s like a glimpse. So, when you practice more, it should effortlessly, naturally be in that state, the consciousness. So, that is when we can call it as ‘samadhi occurred’. So, that’s what it is. More practice is needed. But what experience came is very good. That means the mind had become very concentrated and is sincerely trying to give up all imaginations. So, you continue, it will be beneficial for you.

Questioner:

So, it’s like just a glimpse of samadhi.

Shri Babaji:

Yes.

Questioner:

 May not be even samadhi, but it’s just a glimpse of what it can be?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, what it can be.

Questioner:

But is it enough to just be in samadhi for an hour per day and still benefit?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, it is possible. That’s why we tell, Swamiji used to tell, “If for one hour when you are able to remain totally quiet, the mind doesn’t imagine anything, that is the real meditation,” He used to tell. That means in that one hour, it was samadhi. So, one day when you achieve that one, that can give you a lot of things.

Questioner:

Does it transform the personality, or what is the effect?

Shri Babaji:

Definitely. Definitely. If such a thing happens, that transforms. The person gives up selfishness, narrow-mindedness, will always try to see a larger cause. Just like a mother will see herself in all her children, in that way we try to see ourselves everywhere. If such a transformation has not happened, that means that person has not meditated properly.

Questioner:

So, going into samadhi does have an effect on you. Maybe other people can say that you are different. Or you yourself might say “I’m not the same anymore.”

Shri Babaji:

Your thinking, your understanding, your tendencies, everything would have changed, about this world, about the surroundings…

Questioner:

We lose all our prejudices and judgments, we lose them?

Shri Babaji:

Definitely.

Questioner:

Maharaji, Pranam. First of all, Happy New Year, Maharaji. My question is about during the meditation. Like today’s session, when I was meditating, mind itself started to converse within itself. When I focus specifically, mind in itself starts conversing. So, when I focus, it’s quite distracting for me, in the mind. So, how can we ask our mind to stop just conversing? How can we only just focus, focus, focus?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, exactly. Mind, converses only with itself, always. That’s how it becomes a chatter box. That is why this technique in meditation is taught. You just watch. There is a thin edge of difference between a thought appearing and the mind starting thinking about it. At that time, if you apply willpower and just watch; means do not bother whether that thought is a good thought or a bad thought or what it is, what it is not, anything. You just watch. Then it will give up. Then the thoughts will all disappear. The conversation also stops. You will realize, it is you who has to become quiet. The day that the mind understands, it will become quiet one day. Continue and keep practicing.

Questioner:

Maharaji, can we just tell our mind to just shut up and let me focus?

Shri Babaji:

Once or twice you can do, you should not pick up a habit. Because the more you tell, you will create more such thoughts and you will feel irritated and you will get involved. The mind will be running. The most infinite thing is the mind. You cannot catch hold with a scolding. Just once you tell, “If you can just shut up,” and you also keep quiet. Then it will be quiet. That is what has to happen. Try not to get involved into too much of scolding. Instead, just watch. Be cooled down, at peace. That will be helpful.

Questioner:

Pranam Babaji. Babaji, I want to know; Babaji often quotes Swamiji’s telling from scriptures, stories or quotations from scriptures. So, when and how does Swamiji come to know of scriptures, because He was meditating?

Shri Babaji:

You see, when I asked Swamiji, He scolded me. “I am telling you what to do, and why do you want to know whether I read or I got it anywhere? It’s not your business. You just mind your business. Sit down and meditate.” That’s how He used to scold. So, I simply meditated. He gave the technique. He used to tell, nobody knows from where it came to Him. He did such great tapas and such wonderful knowledge, such stories, everything He told. He used to interpret in His own way. Any story when I tell, some people’s imagination or impressions when they read the actual book might be different. But the same thing He would have told me in a different way. A different way, telling like an Upanishad, like a teaching, like a tatva, He used to tell. So, we have to simply follow that tatva and just practice meditation, is more important. You can never know from where it came actually to Him.

Questioner:

OK, that means even Babaji doesn’t know from where Swamiji came to know of all this knowledge.

Shri Babaji:

Yes, yes.

Questioner:

I’m just curious. You know, the animal kingdom. They’re all thought forms. I mean, these are the souls that decided to learn lessons by becoming a horse or a dog. That’s what I’m curious about.

Shri Babaji:

They also have their own minds in a different way, depending on the brain that is available in the body. They will have the consciousness, but not a well-developed brain that they can discriminate, think, or anything. When the body urges come, they feel that and act upon that based on that one. So, this is the animal kingdom, actually. That’s why humans always have an edge over all other creatures. So, human life is considered a rarest of a rare gem. You should bother about your own consciousness. Otherwise, in the next life, you might become an animal again. You have to be careful. Right? Okay.

Questioner:

Babaji, I just wanted to know what will be experienced during our last breath of life?

Shri Babaji:

That last breath of life only will experience, what else? And afterwards you would lose the consciousness, totally. You will become unconscious of this world, this body, surroundings, everything. That’s why when you are alive perfectly, you practice meditation, train your mind to remain as quiet as possible. Then, based on that only, the next life will come to you. So, that is very, very important, because once the breath stops, you won’t experience anything of this body, present body, present surroundings, present world. It will take you to the next world, next incarnation. So, that’s when you have to be careful about practicing. Continue practice. If you have practiced in the meditation, spiritual exercises, nobility very well, that will continue in the next life also. That is guaranteed. Right?

Questioner:

Pranams, Babaji. Babaji always describes about bad habits of the mind and how mind takes the impressions which are negative. But aren’t the good habits as involving in the world as the bad habits? For instance, thinking of a larger good or putting as imagination to think good of the world is as involving in the world as having jealous thoughts or anything else – isn’t that still keeping you in the world?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, exactly. That’s what we have tried to tell. You have to rise about the dualities. Like I have told many times, if you call this world as very good also, you will get involved into the world. You call this world very bad, then also you get involved. Either way you will get involved. So, you have to rise about this to liberate yourself from these effects. That is why in meditation, important to achieve silence, means you get rid of both good and bad, all thoughts, all visions. Then only the truth is revealed, truth about your real Self, or divinity, or Ultimate Truth. So, that is what is important to achieve.

Questioner:

Pranams, Babaji, Swamiji attained Mahasamadhi and merged with divinity. So, then when I pray to Swamiji, is there any differentiation? Am I just praying really to divinity? Or is there some remnant of Swamiji?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah. You see, when we talk that Swamiji merged with the divinity, that divine has not gone anywhere, is all pervading, is with us. You pray in the name of Swamiji, it is the divinity which will listen to your prayer, which will come as Shivabalayogi also and grace upon you, bless you. You realize the same divinity had come as Shivabalayogi, so that is the final truth actually. So, that is what will happen.

Same Questioner:

No differentiation at all.

Shri Babaji:

No differentiation, nothing. Whatever you visualize, you will get to see the same. You will get to see divine coming as Shivabalayogi for you. Because you have used to Shivabalayogi’s name. You love that one. So, you continue with that.

Questioner:

Babaji, there was one more question that just came in.

Shri Babaji:

Okay, you can read. We’ll take this last question, then go for Aarthi.

Questioner:

So, it asks, what the inherent meaning of the dance of Shiva with the dead body of Uma on His shoulder, what the meaning of that is?

Shri Babaji:

It is things like energetic forces when it goes out of control in this world, earthquakes, the tsunamis, that type happens. So, that means that is what the Tandava is. If the consciousness also gets involved, then it loses control over Supreme Peace. So, that needs to be stopped. That stopping is what is the practice of meditation. So, that is how this thing, concept has been told. Energy comes. It goes into a berserk dancing, means a tsunami comes; simply vast destructions happen. Means it is the withdrawal back to the Self. That’s what will happen. That’s how it happens. For us, innocent lives might be lost and many people might get trapped. All these things do happen. That concept has been explained. The energy is going out of the consciousness. So, consciousness and energy need to be together. That’s why the prayer of Shiva Parvati, wedding ceremonies are also celebrated. Praying “May the energy be with the consciousness, the Supreme Peace may prevail upon the creation.” With that prayer only, this ceremony is celebrated.

End of Session