0:00 Introduction from Babaji
2:30 Why have we been born as a human being and what should we strive for?
4:40 What is Atma Sakshatkar?
9:46 Why is Atma Sakshatkar the highest that a human can achieve?
14:23 What is the peace that Babaji talks of and what effect does peace have on a human being?
18:53 What is Tapas and what effect does Tapas have on the practitioner?
27:13 How can people of this world understand the need to achieve this goal?
34:25 The importance of not analysing in meditation
40:28 Why does it seem difficult and almost impossible to achieve what we have been born for?
44:26 What happened at the moment of Atma Sakshatkar?
47:30 Is Bhakti, Karma and Dhyana yoga all interlinked?
51:51 How does Babaji keep from getting mentally attached to good or bad people?
53:03 What are the possible distractions that sadhaks should be aware of?
56:15 Does one prepare for Tapas, is Tapas different for each person?
59:13 Is there life after death?
1:03:03 What is Shravanam, Mananam, Nidityasanam?

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 170
Atma Sakshatkar
You tube Link: https://youtu.be/YY08pGPZAiw  
Recorded: 06 April 2024

Start of Session

Babaji Maharaj Commences:

   May you all be blessed by the Divine Guru to be the most fortunate and feel inspired to silence.  When you close the eyes, when you are asked to watch in between eyebrows, if you can bring both the eyeballs in between eyebrows, then all the thoughts will disappear – it can be like in one shot also.  However, as we all know, bringing the eyeballs is not very easy.  In that case, do not firmly press your eyeballs in your mind and try to watch.  Just be gentle.  Then also its grip on the thoughts is given up very quickly and the thoughts will all disappear.  On that matter, when the consciousness gives up its grip, then it will go out.  It will all dissolve.  Remember this point and try to do like this, right?

Start of Questions and Answers

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, Javier, good. I think I am ready to take your questions.  Thank you for asking these questions and helping me to conduct this session. 

Facilitator:   Pranaams Babaji.  Thank You for giving me the opportunity to be asking the questions this session.  Also, thank You for giving me the opportunity to be here in this place that, there are many of you who may not know where I am now sitting – This is Babaji’s puja room where He performs puja presently in the morning and in the afternoon every day in the Dehradun Ashram.  But more than that, this is where Babaji sat for tapas, sat for meditation between eighteen to twenty hours every day for five years, and achieved the highest, that is Atma Sakshatkar, or Self-realization in other words.  So, thank You Babaji for allowing me to be here.

Question:   And the first question Babaji is related to the self-enquiry of who am I, and why we are here in this world?  So, why have we been born as human beings, and what should we strive for in the world, Babaji? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Perhaps it was long ago that you came out of your origin with your own imagination.  And perhaps after undergoing being born in different species, different bodies, whereas you as the Self are never born and never died, anything.  But yet, you experienced in the physical body as if you are being born and as if you are being died.  My Guru used to tell sometimes, “After 55,000 life cycles, you are likely to get a better human life.”  If you have a better discriminating power, understanding, wisdom, all these things are there.  You have a discriminating power to think, “Why I am here?  What is the purpose of my life?  What is it that I should know in this life?”  So, that is how you are here as a human being.  And after being as a human being, now you must understand, see, just for example, for knowledge to everyone, you are born and brought up in Europe, in Spain.  But you got attracted to spirituality; Indian spirituality, Indian culture.  And finally, after going here and there when you came to know about Babaji…   I remember you participated in some of these Zoom classes.  And then finally, one day you decided to come to India to my Ashram.  And thus, you are here.  You are blessed and fortunate by my Divine Guru Shivabalayogi. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  So, the next question is, what is Atma Sakshatkar?  What does this mean?  What does a yogi achieve when this experience is achieved?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, first one needs to understand – just now, your consciousness is on the physical body; and in its imagination, it is thinking this physical body as you, a personality with a name, with a native place or all such things.  So, whenever I call, say for example, if I call you Javier, so in your consciousness, it will strike about this physical body only.  That means, in my opinion, this is an illusion, a wrong impression has happened.  You have become impressed as yourself of which you are not actually; of a physical body which is born, and which dies.  So, that is the reason in my teachings also I have told, “You are much more beyond the physical body and its birth and death, meditate and know yourself.” 

So, now, meditation is taught to begin with, so that you first learn to remain focused in your mind mentally; remain focused means mentally.  To remain focused mentally you use your eyeballs, and once you achieve total focus of your mind becoming single pointed, then you are able to do more and more meditation which is known as tapas.  Say, if you are able to do it for 8 to 10 hours in a stretch and achieve keeping the mind quiet for that much of time, thus you will clear the mind, burn out all habits of the mind; that is why the word tapas has been used.  Tapas means burning, burning all acquired habits of the mind, so mind totally becomes clear, then the mind merges with its Ultimate Truth. 

   Now, try to understand the mind.  Mind is infinite.  It is not any matter that you can simply point out, “O, this is my mind, this is the location” –  nobody has seen it in naked eyes. Yet in my experience I have tried to explain, mind is a combination of consciousness and energy; that is the nearest terminology that I can use to make you all understand about this thing.  So, if this mind is so infinite that you cannot see in naked eyes, imagine its Ultimate Truth, the atman what we call or the Self.  That is what is Self-enquiry, that is what is ‘Who am I’, that is what Swamiji also told “Meditate and know yourself,” is the same thing.  Imagine the infinity that is all pervaded, means if the mind can be compared to a small droplet of the ocean, its ocean is what the Ultimate Truth, the Self, the real Self. 

So, thus after practicing meditation, when you are able to achieve one-hour quietness in the mind, then you are able to do more and more meditation; like we all did for eight hours, ten hours and more like that one.  Then when all the habits are burned, means totally the mind becomes cleansed and regains the form of pure consciousness, then it merges with its Ultimate Truth. So that is when it gains awareness of itself as that Ultimate Truth, that secret of the Self is revealed, that experience of the Self becomes possible.  That is what is known as Atma Sakshatkar; the nearest English word is Self-realization.  Many people use enlightenment – though it might have become synonymous, my Guru Shivabalayogi was a bit wary.  He used to say, “Enlightenment is a common word.  You can become enlightened of anything in the world, but becoming enlightened about the Self, about the atman, you as the atman is the Atma Sakshatkar, specific word that has to be used”.  That is what is Self-realization. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  Why this Atma Sakshatkar is the highest that we can achieve, the human being can achieve? 

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, one important thing what my Guru used to tell, “You do everything for yourself”, means everybody in the world, they do it for themselves. If they are going to be happy only then they do any work or any such things.  If they do not get the happiness, if they lose happiness, they do not feel like doing it.  That is how Swamiji used to tell, “There is even no such thing called charity. Even if you do charity, you do it for your happiness; you feel happy, that is why you want to do it.”  Now, you keep trying the whole life, trying to do it for yourself to be happy.  

Everybody, knowingly or unknowingly, is looking for peace and happiness. So you want to have a house, you want to have some property, you want to go there, you want to have a status, like that so many hundreds of things you want to achieve – all are for happiness only, for your own happiness.  So, Swamiji said, “Now, try to know yourself first who you are, then you will understand what you need, what is your need for your happiness, then it will be easy for you to have that thing for yourself for happiness.”  Otherwise, throughout life, you will end up trying to satisfy yourself, trying to be happy by obtaining everything, but one time you will feel that very peace and happiness is quite elusive in this world.  So, that is the reason a Self-realization is recommended. When you become aware, you will not be afraid that you are going to die or you are going to be born, because it is the body which is going to die, it is the body which is being born.

And nobody can harm you.  If you remember the words of Bhagavad Gita, “No weapon can slay the Self, no water can soak and no fire can burn.”  Say for example, just to make you understand this point, if you are the space, who can burn the space, who can soak the space, can any weapon slay?  Any country, any powerful personality might possess the most powerful weapons in the world, nuclear weapons or anything – they might be able to destroy the earth or universe or anything, but can they destroy the space itself?  So, like that, when you become aware of yourself, you will realize that you are eternal in existence and nobody can harm you, nobody can snatch your peace and happiness.  So, this thing, important, you will understand.  

Everything that is happening is for the body.  Just like when you are watching the movie, you would be wondering as if the things are happening to you; you will be panicked, you are unhappy, you are excited.  But once you realize that you are just sitting and watching the movie and nothing is happening to you, you feel so relieved.  In the same way, when you become Self-realized, you will get that Supreme Peace, Supreme Peace.  And you will be a matured person, and in this world, you can move like a matured, better human being, you will always be helpful to others.  Whatever happens, whatever does not happen, you will always be happy.  Nobody can disturb your peace and happiness.  So, these are the basic reasons.  That is why Self-realization is recommended.  One must try; this is the highest!  Once you achieve this, then you can become an emperor or no emperor, you will always be happy.  Even if you are an emperor, you will be the same, happy, if you are not an emperor also, you have the same happiness.  So, the happiness does not go anywhere.  That is why the Self-realization is recommended for everybody; know yourself, it is important. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  Babaji always says about peace – that is the highest, the highest that we can achieve.  So, what is that peace, what does peace mean, what is the effect of that peace on the human being?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, it is the mind which experiences tense moments, stressful moments, unhappiness, because the mind is constantly into cravings. And mind is you; your mind and you are not actually different.  As long as it is thinking, you call that thing as the mind, your mind, you will also know that it is your mind. Because of your mind suffering, you also suffer.  So, you and your mind are not different.  When the mind becomes totally purified, you will realize this.  Just now many people may wonder “Why Babaji is calling the mind as me, how can me be my mind?” But they will realize, when the mind becomes totally quiet and enjoys that supreme peace, then you realize, if you are peaceful, you will have peace. 

Everybody talks of peace.  I have told, initial years also I used to talk, when I used to give a talk, “People of this world talk of peace, but they do not practice peace, that is why they do not have peace.  Everybody talks, “We have to talk, we don’t want any conflict, we want peace, we want peace.”  But where is the peace, because conflicts continue.  If two people are happy and peaceful, the third one does not like, he feels jealousy, “Why are these two people happy?  Let me make them fight.  If they are also unhappy like me, I will be happy then.”  So, one tries to find happiness in another’s unhappiness.  Like this, this world has taken a misdirection, misguided direction. 

If everybody can know about themselves. Imagine. We can dream, we can hope, if everybody can practice this meditation and achieve peace to themselves, along with the peace, when it is peaceful, there is contentment also.  This contentment is another thing which is so elusive to humanity.  That is the highest thing; when you are peaceful, you are contented, you are satisfied.  Otherwise, your mind is always into cravings.  Like, examples I used to give, if you have a bicycle, then your mind will crave for a motorcycle, then if you get a motorcycle, your mind will crave for a car.  If you get a car, then it will crave for a best car in the world.  And if you get a best car, then you will start thinking of a chopper, helicopter, and then you will start thinking of a aeroplane, like that, there is no end. 

That is why humans have not stopped, your mind also has not stopped looking for peace.  If it had become peaceful, then it would have stopped looking for any peace.  It would have been satisfied, that means it would have become satisfied.  This is what I have told, your mind does not stop into anything – give it any object it wants, give it money, give it property, give it ice cream, give it chocolate, give it an empire, it will not stop, because it is looking for the same happiness which it had enjoyed by remaining in the Self.  This is an important point I have always told.  So, that is why this peace is recommended; this is what peace means.  If your mind is peaceful… your mind is peaceful means you have to be peaceful in the mind – you have peace.  If you have peace, you are satisfied, you are contented, then nobody can make you bend to your knees, you will not beg with anybody, come anything, if it doesn’t come, anything in this world, you are always happy. So that is what peace means. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  So, to achieve that peace, Babaji, and Swamiji always insisted that the only thing that we can achieve that peace, that Atma Sakshatkar is tapas.  Babaji has already spoken about this, but what is tapas and what effect does doing tapas have on the practitioner when that person achieves that state of going introvert?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, Swamiji used to talk like Bhagavad Gita; the tapas can happen in several ways through karma yoga, bhakti yoga and through dhyana yoga.  Dhyana yoga has to be adopted everywhere.  The dhyana yoga is the tapas that which Swamiji did for twelve years, sitting in one posture, keeping His eyes closed, keeping the mind and sight in between the eyebrows and the mind becoming pure consciousness and remaining quiet for twenty-two hours – like that Swamiji did for twelve years.  That will burn all habits of the mind.  Mind has acquired habits since time immemorial, so many lives would have passed. And when the mind stops like that, that is what is tapas. 

In the same way, like after Swamiji dropped His physical body, in the vision when it came and Swamiji told me “Your twenty years of selfless service has given you the fruits of seven years tapas.  If you just do for five more years sitting, you can achieve nirvikalpa samadhi”; in that vision Swamiji told me.  That means for twenty years, how I practiced, guided by Swamiji. I was serving Swamiji.  Everything was not like a bed of roses.  Life is never a bed of roses; it is a mixture.  Watching Swamiji was happiness always, was peace, but so many things used to happen.  After all it was the same human beings coming to the ashram also, good, bad, right, wrong, what you call politics, people jealousy, people trying to trouble each other, all these things; it was troublesome. And Swamiji trained me by giving odd jobs.  He said “You practice meditation”, but at the same time He used to give me odd jobs, looking after some children, looking after a mentally challenged person, cleaning the Ashram, cooking and accounting work – every work we did. At all times, because I had just fallen in love with Swamiji, it took care.  I never brooded for anything, “Why I should be doing these works, why not simply meditation”; I never thought like that.  I just thought, “Let this service reach the lotus feet of my Guru Shivabalayogi.”  I always remembered Him.  I felt very peaceful. “Because Swamiji has told me, I just do this work.  Let me go on doing it.  This is the prarabdha.”  I loved it, I loved doing any work that came to me. So when I loved and did it without brooding, that means mind accepted that situation, quietly.  When the mind accepted, it receded and became quiet.  For this purpose only you sit down and do meditation; so that your mind can become quiet, recede and become quiet.  It can become quiet if you do not think, if you do not analyze, if you do not make any judgments, then it can become quiet. 

The same thing, while working, while active in the world, like twenty years it was my fortune that I was at the lotus feet of Swamiji, serving Him and looking after the Ashram, all work that was given we were doing, but at all times I was peaceful, enjoyed, so then the mind was at peace; it did not brood for anything, it receded.  So, that became like a sadhana, tapas for me.  So, that means the mind receded.  Unknown to me, my mind receded; it never went into any brooding, it never questioned anything, it never worried, “Why this is happening, why this person is talking negatively to me, why this person is abusing me”, any such thing, and never bothered at all, as if I did not notice at all. Means mentally I did not notice.  I was busy working in the Ashram. So that is how I kept myself totally busy. This is what is known as karma yoga.

And along with karma yoga, you can do the bhakti yoga also.  Bhakti means, say you are devoted to Swamiji your Divine Guru. All the time you have Swamiji in your mental consciousness. You remember Him, His name, His mantra, and whatever happens to you, whether anybody slaps or kisses you, it is all the same.  Remember Swamiji – “This is the divine play, my Guru Swamiji, that is why this is happening.”  I used to sing, “O my Lord, my Guru, I know now that everything happens by Your grace only.  Nothing can move without Your grace.  If you show grace upon me, whatever I want happens.  Sometimes if You don’t show grace, whatever I want may not happen, but both are Your grace only.  You show Your grace, You don’t show Your grace, they are equally grace for me.  So, You want to train me, You want to bless me so that I can achieve that quietness in the mind.”  Like that I used to remember Swamiji always.  That is bhakti yoga.  Through bhakti also, your mind recedes and becomes quiet.  So, if one understands this technique, this technology, and the technique that your mind has to become quiet and recede, giving up its brooding or its anxiousness, its stressfulness, just accepts, then that is meditation, that is tapas that is happening.  So, anybody who can adopt these things.  

   So, things are not easy.  Many people think, “O, if I cannot do meditation, can I do karma yoga?”  Karma yoga also is not easy.  This world is such a mixture; not always that everything we want happens.  It will not be satisfying to us, mind will jump into brooding, mind will curse itself, mind will think about the prarabdha, mind will feel like banging your head down to the wall.  Sometimes things happen like that, whether we like or we don’t like; for every one of us it happens in life, but if you can practice the yoga, then the tapas becomes successful.  

That is how you can try to do tapas by practicing this thing.  You meditate every day.  When you are not meditating, try to accept things as they happen.  You put in an effort; when things happen, accept it.  So, like that, you go on.  When you are devoted, try to remember your Divinity, your God, your Guru all the time.  In twenty-four hours, how much you can remember?  Is it only for two minutes that you are in the altar, or can you remember twenty hours wherever you are, or twenty-four hours, whatever you are doing, can you remember?  So, then you will win.  This is the challenge, in bhakti yoga, dhyana yoga and gyana yoga, karma yoga, in every way.  If you can do this one, then you will win. 

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  So, how our mind, the mind of the people of this world can understand that we to take this path seriously, and understand the need to achieve this goal?  How can society understand this?

Babaji Maharaj:   That is what, you see, we try to convey, communicate through these forums – wherever I get a forum, if I get a forum to talk to people, or in these Zoom classes, through questions and answers, when we conduct retreats also we try to conduct these questions and answers exclusively – through these things, slowly and slowly after repeatedly when they listen, when it penetrates their inner layers of their mind, then they start thinking, they start wondering, “This seems to be some meaningful thing.”  One day simply, if you listen to a lecture and then forget about it, it won’t sit in your mind. 

Like that, Swamiji never gave big lectures, but when we were with Him, suddenly He used to tell something, one single sentence, one word, like that He used to tell; that will be a great philosophy.  Because, I had adopted, I did not talk much to Swamiji.  I had nothing to convey to Him of my problems at all.  Always, I waited for Him to come here and used to wait, wait for that moment, that precious thing would come out of His mouth, those golden words would come out of His mouth; I used to be waiting for that with total concentration, attention, then when He told – even today, it rings in my ears. The things that He spoke about faith, the things that you need to understand; “This is what has to happen.”  So, now also, I tell people when they ask the question like you asked just now, “How to make our minds understand how much necessary this thing is?”  One best example often I have given; all of you have listened hundred times, thousand times.  See if you can remember again. Suddenly you realize there is a time bomb under your chair, what will you do?  You would set a priority, you would like to get out of that situation and save yourself; that becomes the priority.  First thing!  You will think “The rest all can be attended afterwards, I need to do this one.”  So, the day you realize that in the body, the Divine has fitted a time bomb – any moment it can stop for any one of us – then you will not waste your time.

  Every moment is precious. Time is so precious.  Though we talk the time and space as imagination, but in this world, when we are bound to this body and to this earth, time is so precious and important. Because every moment that is clicking, this body is racing towards its death, its finishing, its aging process goes on and on.  We were ten-years old, we were twelve-years old, we were fifteen-years old. “Ma kuru dhana jana yauvana garvam”, Adi Shankaracharya tells; “But when suddenly we find ourselves in the old age”. And at that time, Puranadasa tells, “When your body is facing all type of illness and there is no proper consciousness available for you, you’re not conscious of surroundings, how will you remember that Nila Varana, that Divinity, that God?  So, now and here itself, you remember God, do not waste your time, they all have said. 

So, this is what everybody needs to realize.  You all have to live in this world; that is a big challenge we understand.  You have to live, you have to earn your livelihood, and there will be so many responsibilities you would have undertaken – you have to work.  Swamiji said in the midst of all this, in twenty-four hours, just take one hour. And in that one hour sincerely do the meditation, understanding the technique that you just have to keep quiet and watch in between eyebrows.  If you understand, the day, the moment you understand and you become quiet and watch, your meditation becomes so successful and you will feel so peaceful and beautiful, tasteful, everything comes then; you will enjoy.  You are looking for some enjoyment in life, you will be able to enjoy, you will be attracted to sit again.  “One hour you do this” Swamiji said often, “other twenty-three hours plenty time is there, you can work, you can attend to your business, you can earn your livelihood, you can be with family, you can be having recreation, you can take rest, look after your physical body, everything can be done.”  Compare one hour to twenty-three hours, just not even one percent, less than one percent that you have to take out in one day.  If that much also you cannot take out, it is your fault, you are lazy, you are crazy. 

Because time is not available in any shopping complex; you take five hundred dollars, nobody will give you time, you have to take out time.  Today, all of you sitting here in this Zoom class, you have taken out that time with your willpower, with an attraction to sit in this meditation session, with an attraction to Babaji.  Otherwise, you could have told, “Sorry, I had to attend a wedding session, sorry, I had to go to a relative’s place, I had to do this thing, I had to do that thing” – a hundred excuses you can give so that you don’t have to sit in the Zoom class for meditation.  I won’t mind, I will say, “It’s okay, no problem, I will do it.”  So, like that, you can waste your time, but if you are interested, if you understand the essence of why you need this one, then you will do this one.  You will go to a shopping mall when you understand you need some product. You will set a priority; you cannot afford to just keep sitting.  It’s a different matter, online today you might be able to order with Amazon and it will come to your home, but at least you have to sit and order that also, something you have to do always; you cannot be sleeping all the time. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji. Now that Babaji has commented on the meditation, I wanted to ask, in ‘His Master’s Grace’ Babaji gives the point which is very important for the technique of meditation when we practice – “Don’t analyze”.  We should understand this point as it will help us to progress in the meditation. So, can Babaji speak about this please? 

Babaji Maharaj:   See, always one important point, having an ability is different, becoming habitual or addicted to that ability is totally different.  Say, in this world, analyzing and making a judgment may be necessary.  You have that ability, you have a brain, you have that wisdom. If your mind is pure and concentrated, you will be able to apply your brain properly and then you are able to analyze and apply your wisdom and make a proper judgment of what you are supposed to do, what you need to do, all these things.  But if you become habitual, even while sleeping also you are analyzing, you want to sit down and take rest at home, you come back home after working, you are tired, so stressful, then also your mind is unable to keep quiet; it is stressful, it is analyzing, it is making judgments. 

Now, the Master is trying to teach you meditation.  You want to meditate, you sit down, but your mind is analyzing, it is making judgments when thoughts are coming, “Why is this, why not that, why did not this happen, why was I not given Self-realization, why was I born like this?”  So, different times, different things are there.  While eating food, just eat the food.  You don’t have to be analyzing about the world or your office or your troubles, everything; that can be done afterwards.  If there is a meeting, first you have to eat the food – then you can attend the meeting, like that.  Now, while meditating, you must understand this technique. ‘You have to watch’ means you must not analyze, come whatever thought.  A thought might be good or bad, a vision might be good or bad; just use it to remain focused, do not bother to analyze, that’s what I teach. 

Otherwise, people always start talking of some good visions coming, bad visions coming, “Why these bad visions, why not good visions?”  Don’t bother about either of them, just keep quiet.  Learn to keep quiet, do not analyze, then the thoughts will disappear.  Apply some willpower.  You can keep quiet.  Like examples I have given, when I ask you to watch this, you just watch this and do not think what is this, otherwise your mind will start thinking whether this is a pen or what is this, whether this belongs to you or to Babaji, whether you should have this or give it to Babaji – your mind will start thinking and become stressful.  There is no need for this.  Use this as an anchor to remain focused, to practice the concentration.  That is what is important in meditation, to understand the technique. When we tell “Do not imagine about anything” is very important. “Do not repeat” also, “Don’t repeat any mantra, name, nothing, and do not imagine anything.”  Because thoughts and visions are there in the subconscious state; that will all get stirred up when you sit for meditation. Hundreds and millions of thoughts and visions will come, but if you can remain quiet, and do not get involved with those thoughts and visions – it is like the hen out of egg, egg out of the hen; you get involved in a whirlpool, one thought will get evaporated, you will absorb another thought by analyzing and making judgments.  At that time, do not make any judgment or analysis.  Just watch them, then they will all disappear.  They will all dissolve.  That matter will be dissolved.  As long as your mind is holding on to that… if your mind gives up its grip on to that in its imagination, then all thoughts and visions will disappear like this [clicks fingers]. 

For this, another example – last one I will tell for this question.  I have always told an example, if you call this world as ‘very good’, then also your mind will get involved.  If you call this world as ‘very bad’, then also your mind will get involved.  During meditation, you have to rise above this level to go towards the Divine.  So, then you have to keep quiet.  If you understand this, you will have that analyzing and judgment abilities.  It will not go away.  In the world you can always analyze and judge what is good, what is bad for you, what is best for you, all these things, but you won’t become habitual.  That is what is important.  When you have to bake bread, bake bread, but if you become habitual, all those twenty-four hours you are baking the bread and you don’t know anything else.  You don’t know even that you have to take out time to eat that bread, also you don’t know –  you will die very quickly.  So, that is what you have to understand.  You need time for so many things. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji. Babaji very often recalls the statement Shri Krishna said, “Amongst millions one feels inspired to follow the path, amongst those millions one really follows the path and amongst those millions one really achieves.”  So, why does it seem to be so difficult, almost impossible to achieve what we have been born for?  Why is it so?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, this universe, this world is like a big mall which attracts anybody so quickly.  So many things are there, not one or two, not a hundred or a million – so many things.  They are all looking for peace and happiness, but they don’t know the path.  And they never try to understand.  They do not know the technique, how the peace comes.  They think that “If we obtain a ring or some money, I get the peace”, but that peace is always elusive for people.  They have to become quiet.  They have to be quiet in the mind.  They have to achieve peace in the mind. 

This one scientific truth you have to understand.  If you are peaceful mentally, then you have peace.  It is as simple as that, but this peace, no other matter can give it to you.  Your mind has to achieve for itself.  It has to become quiet on its own.  That’s what is the practice of meditation, if people can understand.  That is why in Bhagavad Gita Sri Krishna talking, “This is such a rarest of rare knowledge, a highest knowledge which people don’t get attracted easily, because they would have set purposes.”  See, we go to academy.  Hardly or rarely, very few might bother to acquire actual knowledge and wisdom.  For many people, it will be an earning path – “O, we need to have some academic qualification, best.  Then we need to have a good job.  We should be able to do some business.  We should be able to earn well, and we need to be comfortable.”  Usually, many people think about it like this only.  That is why in this rarest of rare theme, Sri Krishna said, “One in a million really get inspired.  And among such millions who all get inspired, one in such million actually treads the path, goes on this path.”  To go on this path also, to sustain is not easy.  The path is not simply easy.  You join in the primary school and come to the research level.  It doesn’t happen in one night or one day.  So many years, unknown to you, you would have become twenty years, twenty-five years or thirty years old.  You are studying to gain that qualification, you know? In the same way, these things don’t come in one day.  The mind which has lost control since so many lives, time immemorial, it will take that much of time.  If from childhood itself, from an younger age itself when your mind is less exposed, then if you are practicing things become very easy.  Many times, this is very important to understand.  So, if you understand this thing, the essence, then you will go for that.  Otherwise, you will keep postponing. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  Now, this is the last question.  Before the question, I forgot before to say that to know more about Babaji’s experiences in tapas and the Atma Sakshatkar, His Master’s Grace is there; the first book that the Mission published.  And all the experiences that Babaji had while here are in that book.  So, whoever is interested to know more can go to that book.

   So, the last question will be;  Babaji, can You please recall the experience of Swamiji and Babaji when Atma Sakshatkar happened?  To You and to Swamiji, what happened in that moment, and what the Divine instructed?

Babaji Maharaj:   First I saw Shiva and Parvati, Lord Shiva and Parvati coming in the form of half-male and half-female, what we call as Ardhanareeshwara.  And They said, “Because of your tapas we have become manifested here, and you don’t need anybody else now; your tapas is over, and you can ask for any boon, any powers, anything.”  That means that manifestation is like your conscience.  You understand this word? Not the consciousness, conscience – inner conscience, that is the truth.  You can never lie to yourself, whatever is inside you, that will come out to yourself.  To others you may tell a lie, you may keep something else in the mind and tell something else to others, but to yourself, you can never tell a lie.  That is what the Divine coming in front of you means.  Spontaneously, because probably of my love to my Master it came, “I don’t need anything, any powers, any fame, nothing.  I just need my Guru’s lotus feet.  I want to be with my Master and listen to His guidance, His orders, whatever He tells me.”  So, pleased, they disappeared.  They blessed me, then Swamiji appeared, then Swamiji asked, “What did you experience?”  I explained to Him, “This is what happened.”  Then Swamiji smiled, “Well, it is good.  Now your tapas is over, then you will be able to teach meditation.  The same thing that you have acquired, that Self-realization, people of this world are very much miserable because they have forgotten about themselves.  Once they are able to realize themselves, they will regain that supreme peace, their happiness, their life, everything will be nice in this world also, and they will understand everything.  You teach meditation, you talk to them, and you initiate them into meditation.  Like that Swamiji blessed me, and then disappeared.  This was what the experience was. 

Question:   Baba, there are three main approaches to realize the Self, to attain Atma Sakshatkar, like what You mentioned just now, path of devotion – bhakti marga, path of service – karma, and path of knowledge – jnana marga.  Are they interrelated, Baba?

Babaji Maharaj:   They are all interlinked.  You need dhyana everywhere, your mental attention; they are all interlinked. 

Same Questioner:   Baba, Ramakrishna was an ardent devotee of Mother Kali.  He followed the path of devotion, but at one point in time He had to drop Mother Kali’s form to enter into nirvikalpa samadhi state.  In Your previous talks, You also mentioned that if the mind is holding onto something, like the Guru’s form or Lord’s form during the…

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, now I understand your question.  What you need to understand here – Bhakti does not mean that you remember the Ultimate Truth, the Divine or the Guru by any name, by any form.  Beyond the name and form also, when your mind becomes quiet, that is the real bhakti.  That will come eventually.  So, you have a Guru, or you have somebody whom you love.  If you remember that Guru, when you rise to the level of tapas… Ramakrishna, simply did not remain as a devotee of Mother Kali.  He did great tapas, which is unknown in this age of Kali.  He did such a great tapas.  So, that’s when He rose to that level and He achieved the nirvikalpa samadhi. 

Same Questioner:   Baba, You said that even the thought of ‘I’, the consciousness of existence has to be dissolved finally, then only final merging will happen.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.

Same Questioner:   If like that, a devotee or a sadhaka, they are following the path of devotion, then in my opinion, I think that it is insufficient.  He has to rise above that level and go towards the path of dhyana marga and perform…

Babaji Maharaj:   No, this is misunderstanding.  This is misunderstanding by many people, scholars talking all these things.  I’m telling you, “Mind.”  Mind itself has no form.  It is infinite.  Nobody has seen the mind in naked eyes.  This mind’s Ultimate Truth is what is recognized as Divinity, Parabrahman.  So now, if the mind becomes quiet, that is the real worship, because mind has no third way.  Either it is into imaginations…  When it becomes quiet, it will go to its Divinity only.  So, again you must know, not simply remembering by name is devotion.  That is a part of devotion.  That’s what many people misunderstand.  If I just call God by name, I have done the devotion.  No, your mental attention is very important.  That is why I told dhyana is needed in bhakti yoga, in dhyana yoga, jnana yoga; everywhere you need that one.  So, that is what is interlinked, I told. 

Same Questioner:   So, Baba, if a sadhak is just following the path of devotion, bhakti marga, then it is insufficient.  The sadhak has to… 

Babaji Maharaj:   No!  It becomes insufficient if he is not following the bhakti marga properly.  You know, people like Mirabhai, Tulsidas, they all followed bhakti marga, but they rose to the highest level.  In their consciousness, only Krishna was there; no Mira existed.  You have to rise to that level in the same path.  That means the tapas.  When the ‘I’ would have gone, then only that merger happens.  Otherwise, it is not bhakti marga at all what you are talking. 

Question:   Namaste Babaji.  Thank You for the session.  I just want to ask – see, in your life you would have met so many people, some people would have been good, bad or close to you.  How do you keep yourself from not getting attached to all these things or all these people?  Even if they are good, how do you keep yourself from getting attached?

Babaji Maharaj:   All the time you must avoid thinking about them.  That is important.  Because if you keep thinking about them, your mind also can become corrupted and become bad.  If you are thinking about a person as bad, bad, always, so give it up.  If a person is bad, you don’t have to take it in your mind.  That is important.  You may have to deal in this world with a bad person.  You have to be careful not to pick up his bad habits, to keep a distance from such a person.  If he is trying to do bad things to you, you have a right to defend yourself.  But mentally, all the time you don’t have to carry that person in your mind.  So that is what the meditation will be helpful to you. 

Question:   Babaji, Javier reminded us of ‘His Master’s Grace,’ and I had a very particular question.  So, during Your tapas, Swamiji came and guided as a Guru throughout the whole five years and probably twenty years as well.  What does Babaji suggest for any sadhak who is in the spiritual path for what could be the possible distractions one has to be wary about?

Babaji Maharaj:   Habits to analyze and be judgemental about everything, everybody – one of the basic important things for every human being for the mind to become distracted.  You need a judgment, but you should not become habitual, then you will start judging each and every one.  Hundred people, thousand people, million people might come, a Yogi will never judge who is good or who is bad.  He will see only God everywhere.  You have to rise to that level slowly and slowly by practice.  Though outside you may have to judge; if somebody is trying to trouble you, you may have to warn, keep such people away – this distance is needed.  But in the mind, you don’t have to carry all such judgments.  So, that is a distraction.  So that is not the important thing.  We have our Guru, our Divinity which is more important to remember, not the people of this world that we have to remember. 

Same Questioner:   Babaji, probably I want to elaborate my question again. So, distraction as in we have heard about stories where sadhak sat for years and still showcased ill habits of minds or tried to misinterpret the spiritual teachings and was kind of a weapon, a toxic weapon for the world.  So, in consciousness of our own habit, could it be that instead of looking and judging the world, can there be something that we are doing wrong within ourselves?

Babaji Maharaj:   Important, certain important points for this I will tell.  Like Swamiji said, “First, whoever is able to correct their own mistakes, they can become great people in this world.”  This is one important thing – we have to look at our own mistakes first.  This is important.  Ego is another factor which curtails a person’s progress.  When we are egoistic, we don’t want to learn things.  Swamiji said, “Always never stop the learning process.  Never think in your mind that you have learned everything, and you have become a Guru.  Any moment from anywhere, there might be some good thing to learn.  Do not have any reservations to learn such a thing.”  If these simple points one can understand, that will take care of that distraction. 

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  I went to India in my early twenties and received initiation into sanyas by a fully Realized Master and I am quite a bit older now, obviously.  And so, I’ve been practicing basically mindfulness, trying to be aware constantly of what I’m doing, even if I’m picking up a spoon or something like that, washing a pan.  And so, I’m wondering, I don’t know at what point… is there a place where you formally enter into tapas or do you prepare for it, or am I already kind of in it?  I am just a little confused about the … You mentioned bhakti yoga and karma yoga, and I’ve done like all of these things.  Is tapas something a little bit different for each person?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, many book-reading, too much more than necessary is one of the basic reasons for these confusions.  You read a little bit so that you feel motivated, you feel inspired, and then the important thing, you have to achieve quietness in the mind.  That comes when you don’t have ego.  That means you are preparing for a tapas.  When you are able to lose the ego, you are not egoistic, you don’t feel hurt very quickly, you are able to understand others in a much better way, you don’t have any selfish ideas; you will try to see a larger cause.  These are some of the points which will be helpful. 

   You say you had taken sanyas.  Have you been following the life of a sanyas all these twenty years? Do you know what the sanyas means?

Same Questioner:   Yeah, I do.  Parts of it yes, parts of it no. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Right, at least you are sincere in telling part of it yes, part of it no.  The first basic idea of sanyas is giving up all ego of the mind, all attachments in the mind.  If that sanyas you can follow, then you can prepare yourself for tapas very quickly. 

Question:   Good afternoon, Babaji.  I want to ask You a pretty personal question.  Do You believe in life after death?  Do You believe that we are all psychic, that we can speak to the dead?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, not psychic.  I will answer this question.  It’s not simply a belief.  Just like this life has come, there is a life.  That doesn’t happen according to what your imagination is, on what people have written books – “Life after death, this will happen, death, that, this…”  They are all illusions.  You see, the mind is carrying on its impressions.  This world appears to you based on your mental attitude and impressions as ‘good’, as ‘bad’, as ‘this’, as ‘that’.  To somebody this might appear good, to somebody the same thing might appear bad.  One man’s food is another man’s poison.  When death happens to physical body, brain dies, but the mind gets detached from the dead brain and it is holding all thought processes, all in a symptom-way.  Based on that it assumes its next birth, next incarnation.  So that is how the life after death is, means that’s what will happen.  You will get a next birth. Until you don’t clear your mind, are  unable to stop your mind, this birth and death phenomena of the physical body keeps happening, keeps happening.  It can be any physical body, any animal, anything; there is no guarantee.  Whatever the mind… if the mind is more violent, it can assume a wrong body.  If it is more non-violent and more peaceful, then it can assume an elevated body.  A better body in which you have better inclination for truth, a scientific truth, a real spiritual truth will always be there.  That is the right thing.  This is how it will happen. 

Same Questioner:   Do You believe it’s not just earth, there are other worlds out there that we can be alive in, you know, like aliens and stuff like that – is that all nonsense or do you think that’s a real chance… 

Babaji Maharaj:   It is neither nonsense nor sense.  We don’t know anything.  You don’t have to bother.  There is much more important things which you have to bother.  First, you bother to know your real Self.  Afterwards, all these things will come.  If aliens are there…  You see, first humanity needs to achieve satisfaction, peace.  What I have told to many people, it may appear as a joke.  We are lucky.  I’m happy that no life species have been discovered for thousands and thousands and thousands of light years distance, because if they are there, if they are weak, we will invade them, kill them.  If they are stronger than us, they will invade us and kill us.  This is what we have been seeing on this earth since time immemorial.  Whoever is strong, they are killing the other.  But humans could have lived happily, peacefully in harmony, but that has not happened.  Survival of the fittest, finally.  That’s what the truth we have to understand.  So, at least we have to realize we are the only life species for now.  We need to learn to live peacefully, happily, conflict-free and look after our earth so that it can sustain life for billions and billions of more years. 

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.  My question is, could you just elaborate a little bit about shravanam, mananam and niddidhyasam?

Babaji Maharaj:   Shravanam is listening to the upadesha of the Master, the teachings of the Master.  When the Master is teaching, like when the Master is answering your question – you asked the question, then when the Master is answering, pay total attention to what He is answering, what He is He trying to convey.  This is the real shravanam.  Mananam means you have to allow it to penetrate in your mind; keep it in your mind.  Don’t forget it.  Don’t just ask in this corner that you are sitting, and when these Zoom class are over, you forget what the Master answered.  Got it?  That is the mananam.  Niddhidhyasam; bring it into practice.  Whatever the Master taught you, then you keep it in your mind and make it a practice.  Practice that thing.  Bring it into your life also. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You Babaji.  Thank you. 

End of Questions and Answers

End of Session