0:00 Intro
0:08 The sword of knowledge slays ignorance of Self. Consciousness misidentifies itself as the body. Meditation shifts the attention from imaginations to the True Self.
6:07 How have we misidentified ourself from birth?
8:11 Until you regain consciousness of your real Self ignorance will be there.
8:59 By watching, the mind eventually becomes quiet and goes back to the Self, rather than imagining. Without paying attention, you cannot gain awareness of what you are. “Just Watch” explained.
13:11 Eventually the consciousness of existence will be there always, it doesn’t disappear. The process of gaining awareness of the Self: watching, paying attention, and awareness.
15:55 When you just watch, thoughts and visions dissolve within the mind and it returns to where it came into existence. Purnamadah Purnamidam sloka explained.
18:19 Truth was always there, it didn’t appear.
18:39 Space is the only thing which exists in itself. It doesn’t need anything else. Both, Meditation and knowledge of the Absolute can attune your mind to the Truth.
22:11 Having knowledge, you begin to notice things you wouldn’t notice otherwise.
22:57 The master prepares you to stop giving attention to thoughts and visions which are in your imagination.
23:34 The Truth of Existence is always there. It won’t disappear. Only what is imagined can disappear. You loose the “I” consciousness when you go to Nirvikalpa Samadhi.
26:21 The Truth of Existence is not a void, it is Consciousness. Divinity can give blissfulness and eventually supreme peace. Only in that which is all pervading, like space, can appearances exist. It is not religious thinking, it is discovery of the Truth of Existence. Through the culture of Spirituality the Truth of Existence can be realized and its nature is supreme peace.
31:57 Ashtavakra Samhita verses 17-20 recited.
33:08 Desire arises because the body has needs. Realizing the Self doesn’t need anything for its existence, mentally all desires subside. If the mind can keep quiet when death occurs, that is a practice known as tapas. Meditation is all that is needed. The difference between desire and craving.
37:36 What is “knowledge awareness”?
40:32 Does time only exist in the physical world?
41:40 Is it possible to go into Samadhi very quickly?
42:47 Along with theoretical knowledge you must meditate to improve your consciousness.
44:27 Desire is not a problem. Greed is the problem.
45:51 To know the Truth, theoretical knowledge is not enough. You must meditate to experience and gain the practical knowledge.
47:51 Why a person not following and spiritual practices can have strong spiritual tendencies.
49:36 What is the difference between space, emptiness, and the divine?
50:49 Baba explains the Gayatri Mantra.

In Quest of Truth No.196
Ashtavakra Samhita Chapter 1 Verses 14-20
Recorded on 1^st September with US participants

Question:

This is verse 14, chapter 1. “Dear child, you have, for so long, been bound by the rope of the illusion of imagining yourself as the body. Sever this bond with the sword of knowledge that you’re actually pure consciousness and be happy.” V.15 “As your true Self you’re actually unattached, actionless, self-luminous, unmoved. Your only real bondage is that your attention is absorbed into an altered state.” V.16 “You pervade this whole universe; it is woven in You. Your real true nature is pure consciousness. Don’t get involved in small mindedness.”

Baba, in verse 14, Ashtavakra advocates to have a firm conviction, that we’re not the body, that we’re in fact pure consciousness, and because our mind is into imaginations, we’re unable to know our true nature. Could you comment on that? Let me ask this, Baba, you say the sword of knowledge, that you’re actually pure consciousness; what do you mean by the sword of knowledge?

Shri Babaji:

Sword of knowledge? Symbolically, it is said that you slay ignorance by the sword of knowledge. When you gain the proper knowledge, the ignorance disappears. For that, so many examples in scriptures are given, just like you are thinking it to be a snake, but when you realize it is only a rope, in the same way here. Consciously, perhaps every creature or human keeps thinking that through the body, they are undergoing all good and bad, happiness, unhappiness, suffering and everything. Consciousness has shifted to the body by coming in touch with the brain’s reflections, firmly registering the brain’s reflections as the truth. Whereas, whatever the brain is giving need not be the truth; it simply gives what it is. That means, if there is an object, it (brain) reflects that object, then through your mind you try to name that object for your convenience and for your own communication, all these things.

Like for example, you come across a new planet, then afterwards, you cannot keep communicating, “New planet, new planet”, so you want to give it a name. You give a name, so that name is based purely on imagination, not necessarily does the planet have to have that name as the truth. Like this, the consciousness shifting into imaginations has forgotten its true Self and assumed the body as itself. Just like you are living in a house, and you forget about yourself and start thinking the house itself is you. You forget that you are inside the house. You are the dweller in the house. But instead, you start considering the house as yourself. Anything that happens to the house appears as if it is happening to you, as good or bad, a pain or agony, or anything.

That is what Ashtavakra is trying to tell. Because of this consciousness shifting to the body so strongly we all feel the pain. If anybody pricks it, the pain is to the body, but it goes to the brain. That reflection is caught strongly by the mind, and the mind experiences it, that’s what Ashtavakra is trying to tell. Remove that consciousness shifting to the body. Realize what you are, by carefully observing. That observing is what we all talk about as meditation, a long practice in meditation. In other words, if we try to see, we observe that the ‘I’, the consciousness, is not connected to the body in any way. That is a fact, but we have to observe that for a long time to realize. That observing for a long time is what is meditation. That’s what the watching or observing is. So then you can overcome that consciousness shifting and you go back to the real consciousness. Just like we bring back the consciousness from the screen where a movie is being projected, and then we realize we are just sitting and watching a movie, that is all.

Question:

Baba, what has made us misidentify? From the very beginning we’ve misidentified ourself, thinking our Self is the body.

Shri Babaji:

Ignorance about our real Self. We don’t know what we are, then we have identified ourselves into a wrong thing; in both places ignorance has happened. So that’s what has prevented us from knowing what we really are. Now to gain that, we have to consistently observe, “Oh, this is it, this is it”, that observation is necessary. Otherwise, you see, the consciousness is observing whatever it is imagining. The mind is totally preoccupied with its imagination is what I keep telling. So that’s why it is unable to observe what it is. That’s what has happened, just like we are watching the screen, and consistently we are observing only that movie, we are not observing that we are sitting and watching. So that sitting and watching has disappeared in our consciousness, and only the movie that is happening is there in our consciousness. So the ignorance has happened. That is what Ashtavakra is trying to explain. A student is always considered like our own child, just like a mother considers her child. Thus, master so affectionately, to remove the ignorance, he talks, “Dear child”, addressing the student, “Dear child”. So this is what it is. Now you observe and you will know the truth to yourself.

Question:

So Baba, then everyone who is born has to have ignorance?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, for a while perhaps. Until you don’t regain what you are, that ignorance will be there. It’s my opinion also, after the birth of any physical body, of any creature or a human or anything, until you don’t regain that consciousness of your real Self, this ignorance will be there about the Self. You don’t know who you are. Like that, it goes on until you don’t observe, until you don’t watch.

Question:

About watching, Baba, that’s what the technique of meditation is. By watching then the mind eventually becomes quiet and goes back onto the Self, onto the consciousness, rather than on what it’s imagining. That attention, there’s a difference between attention, a subtle difference between attention and awareness. I was thinking about that this morning, and observing. You know, when you’re observing, you’re just kind of watching and not thinking. And when you’re paying attention, you’re doing the same thing. You’re holding your awareness on something, it takes a little bit of effort of the mind to keep it present, but if you hold it there long enough, then gradually that effort (diminishes) and it doesn’t take effort any longer, and the attention just becomes that awareness.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, because first you pay attention – when you pay attention you gain awareness. Without paying attention, you cannot gain awareness of what you are. Just like a group of people standing in a photograph, you are also in there. Your focus has to go to your photo, then you will realize you are also standing in that group. If the focus is not there, if the watching or observation is not there, you don’t become aware that you are also in that group, in that photograph, in that group of people, like that. That is why the master first teaches watching. You practice watching, then as the master goes on explaining, awareness also comes.

First, I tell the instructions for meditation, “You watch in between eyebrows”. Then sometimes answering a question, or in my talks I also alert, “What is it that you are watching? Eventually, what is it you are going to realize? It is the consciousness of existence.” That is the only nearest clue through a terminology that one can understand. It is there. When you close the eyes, then you will get to see your Self, if you don’t pay attention to any thoughts and visions. That is what you will do when you are watching. You just watch, but you don’t pay attention, even through the eyes, also. When you close the eyes, then also if thoughts and visions come, you don’t pay attention, you just watch. You don’t pay attention to the thoughts, but you just watch. You are not paying attention to anything, but you are still watching.

(Babaji’s connection is cut off)
(Babaji is connected again)

Question:

Can you pick up where you left off? Do you remember what you were saying? It was really interesting.

Shri Babaji:

Ah, I think it was about consciousness shifting and realizing yourself, paying attention and gaining awareness of the Self. First, you pay attention. When you have to pay attention, here, the tricky thing is you don’t know what it is. So where will you pay attention? For that, the master teaches, just keep watching at one place. That is to get rid of all thoughts and visions, when you are just watching. At that time, you don’t know where that ‘I’, that Self is, so you are unable to pay attention (to it), but you have been asked to “just watch”. When thoughts and visions start going away, finally, the consciousness of existence will be there always, it doesn’t disappear, it doesn’t dissolve, it won’t go away. Your attention goes onto the Consciousness of Existence. In this process, you are likely to feel blissful and eventually peace. When it totally settles down, that’s when you gain awareness here. So that is what happens: watching, paying attention, and gaining awareness, that process happens. First the Master teaches, that you just watch; he insists, first just watch. Before just watching, if I try to explain, students might get confused, “What is this paying attention? What is this just watching, this gaining awareness?” You go on watching, then you will be able to pay attention, because the line gets cleared, everything is dissolved, all thoughts and visions. Then you are able to pay attention to the consciousness of your own existence. When you pay attention, eventually you gain the awareness. This process to make it effortless and natural, for that you have to practice a long time of just watching. So that is the idea of meditation.

Question:

Okay, Baba, that’s wonderful. Baba, you said the real bondage is that our attention is absorbed into an altered state, and I guess you mean by that, it’s absorbed into whatever the mind’s projecting – thoughts and imaginations?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, these thoughts are all absorbed by the mind because it has appeared within the mind, in the consciousness only. That means, finally, what you will realize is you had imagined, so those thoughts and visions were appearing within you only, and you became attentive to those thoughts and visions. In that process, which started long, long ago, time immemorial, you forgot yourself totally what you are. You got absorbed so much into thoughts and visions – only those thoughts and visions appear to be a reality of existence. You forgot you exist, not in thoughts or visions, those thoughts and visions are only imaginations. When that is absorbed back into the mind, means when you just watch them, these thoughts and visions dissolve within the mind. It will go back to the mind from where it came into existence. It will go back. In the Vedas, those people who are familiar with the Scriptures, the teachings of the sages, ‘Purnamadah Purnamidam’ shloka is there. (It says) This world, which is also absolute, has come out of that absolute, which is the stillness, the all-pervading ultimate truth. And when this absolute, which is this world, is not going to be there, this would have got absorbed into the absolute, which is the final truth, which never came into existence, so it doesn’t have to get absorbed into anything else, because that is the final truth.

Question:

Because the final truth was always there, eternally?

Shri Babaji:

It was always there. It did not appear. Only that which has appeared will disappear, only that which has come will go back.

Question:

Baba, in your commentary, you say that Ashtavakra advocates to have a firm conviction that you’re not the body, but pure consciousness. Is that what you’re trying to give us now, in addition to the experiences you have in meditation where you actually experience yourself as the consciousness?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, exactly. So, apart from practicing meditation, when you have the privilege to sit with a Self-realized master, and when the master talks to you or answers your questions, then he repeatedly talks about this, “This is what you are. This is what you are. You have to regain this consciousness.” Then slowly the mind gets tuned into that. This is how, you see, since childhood, when we read Adi Shankara’s teachings, Ramana Maharishi’s teachings, Ramakrishna’s teachings, our mind got tuned into that. First, jnana, bhakti, vairagya – knowledge, devotion and detachment. But we always wondered, “If we are that soul, why is it I am not aware?” But one clue in the Yoga Vashista came. “It exists in itself.”

This struck my consciousness. My God, what is it that exists in itself? Because all objects, the entire universe, world, our body, everything seems to be existing in the space. Our Earth also exists in the space. Solar system exists in the space. Sun exists in the space. Milky Ways and galaxies all exist in the space. The space doesn’t seem to be existing in anything but in itself. Though, when you see matter, like an earthen pot, or any such hollow space (container), space is inside that pitcher, earthen pitcher, but actually it is everywhere. Though we were told “The void place in between two walls is known as space”, that space is everywhere. That’s how we realize space is the only thing which exists in itself. It doesn’t need anything else. So, space is the ultimate truth. Space is that supreme consciousness of existence. Space is that Divine which sages have told. That struck. Tune in, tune in, and try to listen to the teachings or read as you also practice the meditation, then your consciousness, which is now pure consciousness, not a mind, gains the ability of understanding, gaining awareness of what you are talking.

Question:

Yeah, Baba, you know, having the knowledge…

Shri Babaji:

That’s what Ashtavakra advocates.

Question:

Excuse me, Baba. Yeah, having that knowledge, you begin to notice things that you wouldn’t notice otherwise. You may be having some of those experiences, but they go unnoticed. And then as soon as you have the knowledge, this knowledge…

Shri Babaji:

Exactly, exactly. You wouldn’t have noticed that you are also standing in the group of people in that photograph. Only after the teacher pointed out “This, see, you are here”. Then you start noticing suddenly.

Question:

So knowledge is important. I mean, this type of knowledge,

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, to notice, you need to know.

Question:  

That’s what happened to Ashravakra.

Shri Babaji:

At first the master prepares you to gain the ability to notice, because otherwise you are playing with the toys that are in your mind, then you won’t be able to notice. No matter 100,000 times I tell that, you are unable to notice. The master prepares you to give up your attention to those thoughts and visions which are in your imagination. Then if I tell you the consciousness of existence is there, you will be able to notice.

Question:

Yeah, I know Baba for myself, since the satsangs we’ve had with you, I have become a lot more aware that what I know is just happening in my mind. That it is only in my mind, and I have become more aware that I am the watcher. Maybe if I hadn’t meditated, I would never have noticed that. So, by keenly observing, it can be both: to keenly observe is just watching in meditation; or keenly observe is also the truth that only impermanent things arise in the mind. That which is watching is the real Truth, and you can’t make that go away, you’ve said.

Shri Babaji:

Yes, that Truth of Existence is always there. It won’t disappear. You can make all thoughts and visions go away when you just watch. So that means here, student has to understand when you just watch, whatever (appeared?) will disappear and whatever never (appeared?) will always remain.

Question: 

Can you repeat that Baba? (Need to clarify following answer with Baba)

Shri Babaji:

That is the clue that you can understand. When you are watching, now what you have to understand is, all that you have imagined since time immemorial will disappear. That which you have never imagined will always remain and will not disappear. When you are just watching, your job is to just go on watching, then you will see whatever goes on disappearing, know that as untrue and simply an imagined thought and vision. Then (Truth?) remains which will not go at all, no matter you go on watching. Then the consciousness would also have shifted to that as the ‘I’, before the Nirvikalpa Samadhi. “This is what the ‘I’ is, and this is eternal, this will not disappear. This is going to be always”, and then you lose the ‘I’ consciousness also, when you go to Nirvikalpa Samadhi and merge.

Question:

Baba in your commentary, I’ll read it. You say, “Keenly observe. Just the mind is all pervasive, and all its objects, imagined objects and stories are inside the mind upon which the mind which is all pervasive.” So in this sense, it sounds like the mind is just pure consciousness. The mind that’s empty of all thoughts, what do you call that? The mind is there, but it is empty of all imaginations.

Shri Babaji:

When it is empty, the consciousness of existence is there. That is how you will realize the mind, which appears to be simply a void place, is not actually void, but a consciousness of existence. In the same way, you also realize whatever thoughts and visions were there, that was all there in a truth called consciousness. Inside a truth called consciousness, which we were addressing as mind. When the thoughts and visions disappear, we won’t address it as mind, but as a pure consciousness, the Self, because that is from where the ‘I’ is emerging. Thus you will realize the entire universe, whatever length and breadth it is, galaxies, Milky Ways after Milky Ways, it is all existing in a space. Means that is not simply a space, that is the Truth. The same truth which Einstein tried to address as truth, because in science and spirituality, depending on the culture, people use such terminologies.

One might use the terminology as only the truth, truth of existence or truth, because nothing else appears in that. But Vishwamitra, who composes the Gayatri mantra, he said, “If you adopt in your mind the remembrance of that, your sins and unhappiness can be washed away”. He said that, that’s what we have been discussing, all these things. When thoughts and visions go away, you will also experience blissfulness and eventually supreme peace. That is why That Truth is recognized as divinity. It is divine in nature which can give us happiness and peace once and for all, and there is no more corruption.

When a thought is not there, there is no chance of any corrupted thought coming at all. As long as there are thoughts in the mind, there is always a chance corrupted thoughts also might come in with the ego, selfish and narrow mindedness. These things were determined by the sages, telling it is not simply a truth, it is Divinity. It is the truth of existence, which is simply all pervading, and in that only any appearance can exist, the universe or Milky Way, whatever you feel. That’s how the determination is made that everything exists in Divinity. But if we simply talk of divinity, scientific people, some people might make fun of us, that “You are a religious person”. Religious thinking is all different. It is not religious thinking; it is a discovery of the Truth of Existence. See, you discover an existence and then try to see what is its nature. Is it simply an existence which has no tail or no head or nothing, or does it have some quality? It gives you supreme peace and removal of all corruptions. Nothing is there, it is the purest form, the most pure. This is also a culture, a beautiful culture, known as spirituality. You got it?

Question:

No, but I got a lot.

Baba, in your commentary, you said you have to regain awareness of what you are. We are already free and content, but not aware of it.

All right, moving on to verses 17, 18,19, and 20. (V 17) “Without conditions, unchanging, beyond measure, unencumbered, serenely peaceful, unfathomably intelligent, unperturbed, settle back into that consciousness alone.” (V18) “Know that which has form is not real. The unmanifested formless is permanent, unchanging. By the truth of this teaching, you shall avoid rebirth.” (V19) “In the same way that a mirror exists within and without the image showing in it, the Self exists inside and outside the physical body, independent of it.” (V20) “Just as the one all-pervading space permeates inside and outside of a pot as the one single space, so the eternal, unconstrained, Supreme Self pervades all things.”

So in the commentary, Baba, you say the Self doesn’t depend on anything for its existence, and hence there is no desire. So does desire arise from lack of fulfillment, or do desires arise because we’re looking for peace and happiness that we have when we’re in the Self?

Shri Babaji:

You see, what is important, actually desire arises in the body because the body has a lot of needs. It needs. For its happiness it needs, for its existence it needs. Both things. One thing, for its existence it needs food and such, thus desires happen. “I need to have food. To have that food. I need to earn money, then I can buy food for myself”. Like that, the thoughts keep going on and on and on. We get involved into that, desire after desire keeps coming. “I need a shelter. The body needs a shelter. The body needs oxygen.” If oxygen is not here, we cannot survive, so we can stay only where oxygen is available. So far, we are unable to find oxygen on any other planet sufficient to keep us alive bodily. Like this, the thoughts go on and on and on, when you think you are the body. But once you know you are that Truth, then in the mind such desires don’t come.

But whatever the body needs for its existence that much needs to be given. I’m not talking that you don’t have to (care for the body). One must not misunderstand there is no need to give anything to the body. To keep the body alive, you need to give something, whatever it needs for its survival. But it has limitations. One day it is going to go away. The day it is to go away, let it go, until then we can survive, because through this body only, I can communicate to all other bodies and students can practice meditation. So, we’ll keep it aside. But when you realize your real Self, that it exists. It does not need anything for its existence, you will realize. Then mentally all desires subside, mind doesn’t go into craving. With that practice, when death comes to the body, if the mind can keep quiet without any desires when death happens, that is a practice known as tapas. Meditation is all that is needed and recommended, then we won’t have another physical body again to undergo all the troubles that we have to fulfill. “We have to give this; we have to give that.” That’s what Ashtavakra bluntly has tried to tell. These are all very great teachings. Many times, the present day generations may not be able to take it and they get put off. What will happen to their life on this earth? That is totally different, nothing will happen. You live in this world. You have desires, no problem. You enjoy everything. You need anything for the body, you go on having. Simply you can avoid having a craving, consistent craving. A desire and craving are different. When a desire goes out of control craving happens. So that is all the teaching that we have been trying to tell here.

Question:

Beautiful Baba. In your commentary, you say, “Anything that has appeared with a form is unreal and impermanent. Whatever is formless, know that as permanent. When you acquire this knowledge awareness by settling effortlessly in supreme consciousness, when you lose all imaginations and desires of the mind, you avoid rebirth.” Baba, what is the knowledge awareness? What do you mean by that term? When you acquire this knowledge awareness?

Shri Babaji:

(Knowledge awareness) of the Self. When you are practicing the watching, one time you realize, “This is what I am. I am not the body.” That is necessary. But all the time you don’t have to be thinking about this, once a Self-Realization happens. After that you won’t be thinking, “Oh, I am a yogi, I am only the Atman and I am not the body”. It is not necessary. You are quiet. You are in that only when you are quiet, so there is no desire or craving again. Before that, to understand, one time you understand before the merger happens, or without understanding also, if you merge with the Self, that’s fine. Just like you want to gain knowledge awareness. So, if when I sleep, I will lose consciousness of the surroundings, that is also okay. Or you just go into sleep and lose consciousness of the surroundings also, is okay. That’s what knowledge of awareness is. If you have the knowledge of awareness, you can teach others. You can create an awareness. You can answer others’ questions about your own experiences in the right way. You can become a skilled teacher. Otherwise, you are only a Self-Realized Soul, and you may not be able to teach others.

Question:

Mm, that makes sense. Yeah,

Shri Babaji:

This is my opinion.

Question:

Often, we have experiences, but we can’t really explain much about them. But to be a teacher, you have to have that knowledge awareness where you can actually explain what’s happened. Nice.

End of questions on Ashtavakra Samhita Commentary

Question 1:

Baba, I’m always questioning time. It seems that when I’m sleeping, there’s no time. When I get into a space in my head, there’s no time. Does time only exist in the physical?

Shri Babaji:

The time we imagine between an appearance and a disappearance. If there is neither appearance nor disappearance, there is no time. Time is important in this world. We send a link and tell “The starting time is this”, and request that all of you be present 10 minutes before. When Babaji joins, he will start conducting the meeting. Then the time becomes important. So, we imagine that there is time and there is need of time. If there is no need, there is no time. It is both ways important in this world. When you become one with the ultimate truth, you transcend the time.

Question 2:

My question is about Ashtavakra asking King Janaka to be quiet and then he physically stopped in the act of mounting the horse, and his mind became quiet. So, he went into Samadhi at that time, there and then, or did he start meditating?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, yes. He stopped mentally. When the guru commanded him to stop, not only he stopped physically, mentally also he stopped. Then he went into Samadhi.

Question 3:

Okay, Baba, so that means it is possible to go into Samadhi very quickly?

Shri Babaji:

It is possible when you practice long time. Don’t try to sit on the horseback and try it just now. You have to practice long-time meditation, then you can try to sit in the car, behind the steering and then if I tell “Stop”, you will stop. Okay, my blessings. Take care.

Question 4:

Pranam, Guruji. My question is even though I have so much theoretical knowledge about consciousness, the moment I go to the external world, and I am encountering actual situations, I’m forgetting the true nature of myself and I get carried away by the external surroundings. So, what should I do to improve my actual consciousness?

Shri Babaji:

Ah, that’s why practice of meditation is necessary. Like when you go to university, you go to theory class and to practical classes also, sometimes, if necessary, in the laboratory or any such thing.  Reading or listening to us, or the Q&A will help you gain theoretical knowledge of what you are. Along with that, you have to practice meditation also, then it will stay there for a longer time, forever. When you are active in the world, also, you will not forget. Just like, if you are Mr. Murali, when you are in the office and busy, you will not forget that you are Murali. In the same way when you practice meditation, you can be active in the world, talking, thinking if necessary, but at all times, mind comes and stops and regains (awareness of itself), always it remembers what it is. So, you need to practice. 

Shri Babaji:

Bless you, blessings.

Question 5:

So, a consciousness needs no desires. But it seems in life, desires are required in order to be drawn to Baba or to be drawn to the idea of liberation requires our desire. My question, it seems desire is not the problem, but rather our attachment to what we desire can become a problem. Is that true?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, I have also told… listen to me. I have always told having a desire itself is not a problem. The problem is when you lose control over the desire and go into a craving. That’s what is the problem. You have a desire, but you will do it for the need; you will not become greedy. That is all what you need. Then it’s fine. You will not be troubled ever.

Question 6:

So don’t worry about the desires. Just don’t be attached to them, and don’t get greedy with them and let the outcome be the will of the guru.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, accept the outcome, whatever it is.

Question 7:

Namaskar Babaji. Thank you, and thanks Agastya for reading out the commentaries. In one of the commentaries, I think it went, “Know the form to be unreal and the formless to be permanent”. So here I wanted to ask about the word ‘know’. Does it mean that we read and then intellectually understand, or does that ‘know’ come after experiencing in the meditation? What does the word ‘know’ mean here?

Shri Babaji:

After experiencing in meditation only, will that come permanently to your consciousness, that knowing will happen actually. When the master teaches, he casually tells, know this is the truth. But Master also teaches to know this truth, you have to consistently practice, always there. Then permanently it will come to you. Finally, you have to practice. That’s what we were trying to tell, a theory class and a practical class, both are necessary in my opinion. Just like you attend these classes, you listen to questions and answers, to my talks, and you have to attend to the practice of meditation also. We try to hold both classes, practical classes of meditation and theoretical classes of questions and answers. Then you will (can) have that permanent awareness.

Question:
Baba, there’s a couple questions in the chat. I can read a couple of them.

Shri Babaji:

Okay.

Question 8:

Even when a person is just busy in daily life and not following any spiritual practice, why does he get strong spiritual thoughts, randomly and repeatedly, that almost make him feel like he should go into isolation, depressed, tears, feeling of knowing nothing, and forcing him to think about finding the ultimate truth and the purpose of life. Then these thoughts just go away in some days, but after some time, they come back. So, I guess he’s wondering why.

Shri Babaji:

This is probably due to you bringing in your consciousness some efforts that you had done in your previous lives. Even when death happens, when you are practicing, say, meditation, for anybody if death happens for some reason, the consciousness, mind, will carry the symptoms, tendencies to the next life also. Though you are not practicing and mentally you are thinking you are not spiritual, you might be carrying those spiritual vasanas, known as tendencies. That’s why these things are coming to you strongly. So, you wait and see. When it overwhelms you, it will make you to jump into it and practice spirituality. Then you will know the truth. As it grows and grows, intensifies the truth that you want to know, then you practice, then you will know the truth. May you be blessed.

Question 9:

And another person asks, what is the difference between space, emptiness, and the divine? Space, emptiness and the divine, what’s the difference?

Shri Babaji:

Space and emptiness both are imagined terminologies. In comparison to matter, its opposite we recognize as emptiness. We think that matter is complete or full. That it is not emptiness. Divine is the supreme consciousness of existence. Though in the form of space, it is not just space or emptiness, it is absolute. That is how, you see, zero: zero is Absolute and Absolute is zero. It appears to be zero, but it has no beginning and no end. That’s why it is absolute. Here also, it appears to be empty and it appears to be space, void space, but it is not simply void or empty. It is supremely conscious of its own existence. This you can experience in deeper Samadhi state.

Question 10:

Baba, I just have a follow up question about what you mentioned about the Gayatri (mantra), and what you just said. You said, the main reason of the Gayatri is to adopt the main reason of the Gayatri and memorize it. You were saying something about everything exists in divinity, and yet it doesn’t exist – what you were just saying to that last question, is that what you’re trying us to know in the Gayatri?

Shri Babaji:

No, you see, one of the basic meanings is, first recognizing that it is simply pervaded, like it is on this earth, in all the worlds, above and below the world. The way they addressed in older and ancient times, the first terminology used was ‘Tattva’, meaning ‘That’. That was such an awesome existence, they kept quiet because they did not use any other terminology. They knew any use of terminology will be simply an imagination and limiting. It is boundless. It is beyond all limitations. That’s why they called it Tattva. That Tattva, they tried to tell as ‘Savitur Varenyam’; equivalent to the sun, means it is not simply inert or empty or space. It is as powerful as the sun, that powerful. ‘Bargo Devasya Dimahi’; it can give us supreme peace and remove all corruptions of the mind, all unhappiness, all sins of the mind. Sin means corruption of the mind; it can remove that. Third line, ‘Dheo Yonah Prachodayat’; we pray to that Truth to inspire our wisdom, to put in effort to achieve that. That is the basic meaning. That’s why it is recognized as Divine. Because if we meditate on that, when we are just watching, actually we are trying to meditate on that truth only. Trying to remove all thoughts and visions when silencing the mind, then you are meditating on that. For that you pray to inspire your wisdom.

End of Session