0:00 Intro
1:03 Chapter 12, Verse 1-4
2:28 How do you function in a world where you’re unattached to everything?
8:49 Baba, are you saying that we should practice restraining our mind?
9:06 So this is a practice that we can do every day?
9:26 Like so many events in life, you just don’t need to get involved with them, just let it go.
10:20 Practicing letting go should make it easier for meditation?
11:00 Cutting down on unnecessary thinking is an important practice
11:23 Attention needs to turn away from thoughts, onto the consciousness itself – how do we do that?
15:09 Concentration of the mind is necessary to overcome distractions.
16:02 With whatever you’re doing, stay present with that. Don’t allow your mind to wander around.
16:21 Having neither joy nor sorrow doesn’t sound that interesting.
19:05 As you meditate more you can rid of becoming a ruminator.
20:01 Is there any other way to settle into the Self, besides effortlessly?
21:10 Baba experiences the reverse of what we experience – it’s effortless for us to have mental chatter but Babaji’s mental state is to be silent.
22:02 If you meditate regularly, the mind is a quieter place.
23:41 Accepting the results of our actions doesn’t mean we can’t try to change them.
26:23 “You need to understand the futility of actions, as there’s nothing to achieve.”
29:26 Importance of the zoom calls with Babaji which motivate us and inform us of the possibilities, otherwise it would be really difficult.
31:18 So what you’re saying is that anything you achieve in this world is impermanent, it is not going to bring you peace, so it’s really equivalent to nothing.
32:33 “Your very nature is Supreme Peace and the rest is unreal.”
36:50 Important things we can practice during the day to quiet our mind.
38:59 If the mind is into imaginations, then you have to do sadhana to achieve silence of the mind.
42:48 “By a thought of the mind, you cannot know your real Self. Only by becoming quiet in the mind can you know your real Self… …To know the space, you have to become space.”
45:44 Mind can never give the Truth.
46:38 “You can make everything else disappear, but you can’t make yourself disappear.”
48:25 When you start to meditate, after about 40 minutes the mind and body get still, is that the time that the thoughts gets purified?
49:44 I always want to cry after a meditation. I find it very frightening when you’re all alone.
50:47 When memory and time is the material of the mind, can the mind observe without memory and time.
51:56 So is supreme peace the ultimate goal of life? Is that what it is?
52:45 You mentioned that when your mind is completely quiet, then you dissolve in the consciousness. What’s the process?
54:26 We don’t really get absorbed into the Self, into the pure consciousness? We are the pure consciousness. Just the illusion that I am a separate being is what ends, right?
55:36 Situations happening because they were set in motion by desires long ago or is it happening because that is what the universe wants from me at this point?
57:41 Is it possible that everyone has already experienced Self Realization but we haven’t got to that point we want to reach.
59:12 Babaji mentioned as a clue, that there is a supreme darkness at top of the mountain where we have to reach.
59:53 When the body dies, does the ego die with it, and then when, when it’s reincarnated? Is that that same ego that moves on to the next body?

Ashtavakra Samhita, Ch.12 ‘Abiding in the Self’ | In Quest of Truth – Q&A with Babaji, No.232

Recorded on 29 June with US participants

Question:

Today we’re going to continue with chapter 12 of the Ashtavakra Gita. It’s titled, ‘Abiding in the Self’. Again, Ashtavakra Gita is an advaitist text dealing with, very concisely, how to realize the one Ultimate Reality that permeates everything and that we are that Truth. Okay, so, Baba, I’ll read through the slokas and then come back and have you comment, as we have in the past.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, that would be nice, and briefly you read the important sentences and come up with a question, then it will be easy for me to answer and elaborately guide everyone.

Question:

I will do my best. Thank you. Okay, chapter 12, ‘Abiding in the Self’. Janaka speaks; so this is King Janaka speaking to his Guru Ashtavakra:

Verse 1. “I became detached first from physical action, then from excessive speech, and then even from thoughts. Thus I am firmly settled in That.” 

Verse 2. “Having lost attachment to all the sense objects of the universe, the Self is able to be perceived. My mind has become free from distractions and settled into one pointedness. I thus firmly abide in the Self.”

Verse 3. “When the mind is distracted into the illusions of the universe, concentration of it is necessary to overcome this. The illusions are actually only superimposed in the mind. Knowing this as the Truth, I now effortlessly abide in That.”

Verse 4. “Having nothing to either accept or reject, having neither joy nor sorrow, I rest now firmly in the Self.”

Okay, Baba, those are the first four slokas. First, He is saying that, having lost all attachment to the sense objects of the universe, He’s detached from physical action, speech and even thoughts. How do you function in a world where you’re unattached to everything?

Shri Babaji:

First thing, you see, important, I also keep telling; main sentence, as the mind is too preoccupied with its own imaginations. Too preoccupied means much more than necessary. We need to use the mind. That we need to be creative in this world is understandable, but more than that, if all the 24 hours we keep doing the same thing, then we become habitual and addictive. Excessive speech also is oneword they have used, you see? Many times I alert devotees; talk only that much which is necessary in a day. Unnecessary gossips are not needed — useless topics, worthless things that we keep talking — we increase and we become so habitual. If we can finish in one sentence, we have to make it a big paragraph of what has to happen. These things all if we can reduce, watching ourselves: “Am I thinking too much about a certain thing?” 

Little bit you plan and then start working in the present. For the future you can plan, but if you keep worrying all the time, only daydreaming, daydreaming, it becomes addictive. Any item in the world, like a cell phone — I have explained — if the cell phone is used, it is a wonderful discovery and invention, instrument that we have made, humans. But there is a limit; how much. To communicate, to be in touch with each other is a beautiful thing, but that doesn’t mean all the 24 hours we are on the cell phone only, gossiping, gossiping, gossiping. 

We get to see youngsters in the airports and any place we go, they have to have an earphone and a cell phone, and are busy talking while they are walking. They dash to something, they dash to something. May times we get the new also; ome high school students were sitting on a railway track, putting in earbuds, and were busy in the video game with each other, the three of them, and were run over by a speeding train. It was such a shocking horror. Young lives are gone. So they can be so careless with their own lives and where they are going to sit. A railway track is not the place where we sit and watch video games, but we go to that extent that we forget about ourselves. 

So that is what is the excessiveness in anything, whether it is speech or seeing. Eyes are such an important sensory organ. We need eyes to see this world, everybody. If the blindness is there, it becomes such a handicap. But these eyes, you see only that much that is necessary for your world, for your activities. But if you go on seeing, go on seeing, never ending, you become addictive, you don’t want to come back from that one, then you are in trouble.

Talk whatever is necessary. We need to talk. You cannot be dumb all the 24 hours. You need to talk, but talk only when you need to talk. When talking is not necessary also, you go on talking, go on talking — that is known as gossip. The word changes. Talking becomes gossip. Gossip means it’s a worthless conversation. Talking is a worthy conversation, it is necessary. To make you all understand,  I need to have a conversation with my host. They ask a question. I elaborately try to explain, we need to do this. But if the whole evening, wherever I go I keep talking, people will consider me a mad person. “I don’t know, he keeps talking to himself. He keeps talking to himself. What is he doing?”

Like that we must not go excessive into anything. When we go excessive, that is when we lose our peace. We become addicted. We lose our good habits. We don’t know how to utilize things. Instead, we become a slave of the things. Cell phone must be your slave; you should not become the cell phone’s slave. Everything that we have discovered and invented, that is what precisely we are doing.

Janaka says, when I could withdraw from this, then 90% of things could be deleted. When you need to clean up the space in a computer, if you search, 90% you could delete simply, which were worthless things you had unnecessarily put into recordings. In the same way in our own activities, if you watch carefully, 70, 80, 90% we can reduce if we notice that unnecessarily we are indulging in these habits which are not so much necessary.

Then you get that time to meditate. You get that time to remember the divine. That time to remember how you exist as the eternal soul, how you exist as the Atman. These things also become an important part. You have to think about it every day. Try to think. So that’s what is the precise meaning of what they talk about in these things. So you, anybody, can practice this. If you practice, then meditation becomes so progressive and productive.

Question:

So Baba, are you saying that we should practice restraining our mind?

Shri Babaji:

Finally, that’s what it is. Restraining is the important word. It’s a very important word, restraining yourself, not unnecessarily getting carried away with so many things.

Question:

So this is a practice that we can do every day?

Shri Babaji:

Reconsider and come back. Overcome the habits that you would have acquired. Come back to that one. Only this much, calculatively you talk; “Only this much is necessary.”  When it is not necessary, you remain silent and at your peace.

Question:

It is kind of a vicious cycle. You know? I mean, when you’re thinking a lot, you get caught up in the thoughts, and you just create more thoughts. At some point you have to be able to slow it down, or just not go there. Like so many events in life, you just don’t need to get involved with them. Just let it go.

Shri Babaji:

That’s what is necessary. If you start doing, you will realize so much of your life you are unnecessarily getting involved. You can let it go, even to the extent that if any bad things had happened, somebody had misbehaved with me also, I don’t want to carry it in my mind. Let go, because it is not worthy. My mind is becoming a casualty. My mind starts worrying. It goes into vengeance and anger, and I become a victim of my own thinking. So it is not worthy of it. It’s over. It was a bad dream. That’s it, finished. Let’s look forward. Let’s move on.

Question:

Yes, by practicing that we cut down on all the items that we entertain in our mind. That should make it easier for meditation too. Mind won’t be so busy.

Shri Babaji:

Then finally, we’ll come to meditation. It becomes so easy then, your preoccupation or busyness, all is reduced. Then you will feel relaxed when you sit for meditation. Otherwise, when you sit for meditation, all these worthless things come to mind. “Oh, I had to do this one. I forgot to do this one. I should have been doing this. Why could I not achieve?” And that one hour of meditation goes on thinking only like that.

Question:

So that sounds like an important practice to try to cut down on unnecessary thinking during the day, so our mind is not so busy.

Shri Babaji:

Once you watch yourself, then you will be able to overcome these unnecessary things. You can cut down; a lot will be there which is not necessary, really.

Question:

In verse 2, it says, “Having lost attachment to all the sense objects of the universe, the Self is able to be perceived”. This revolves around the essential message, and that is the attention is attracted to everything that is in the mind. Everything in the mind is coming and going constantly, it’s impermanent.  So there’s never really any peace that lasts for very long. The idea is to try to get the attention to turn back on the witness, the one that’s watching, and pay attention to the consciousness, rather than what’s being watched by the consciousness. So, how do we do that? How can we do that?

Shri Babaji:

That’s what is the practice of meditation that is being taught, so that you can recover yourself from these things and restrain yourself and take back yourself, [from that] which is not necessary. Certain things might be very necessary. You need to live in this world. You need to earn a livelihood. Do that much which is necessary, whole day. You will get so much of time to meditate then. Otherwise, if we are preoccupied with unnecessary things, we don’t get time for vital meditation itself. We keep postponing. If at all we sit also, mind is preoccupied with those things only.

So if we restrain and take out, then we can reduce them, and the meditation becomes so easy. So for us, since childhood, it became very handy. I used to remain preoccupied with God’s remembrance. We were active. We went to school also. We went anywhere that was necessary. But our preoccupation was more with God than the worldly things. Friends were limited. We used to go only where it was necessary, not wasting time; there was no need to keep gossiping with friends. I never liked such things. I used to be silent if at all I had to sit. They used to make fun, also. “No problem, you do your things. I want to be remembering my god,” like that.

That became so handy, and I had so much time to meditate. In the midst of a busy schedule in the ashram life for 20 years of my Guru service also we got time. I could take out time. People wondered, how could you take out time? Six to seven hours of meditation, we could do that one. In that six to seven hours, maximum time we could keep the mind focused, not to worry [about] unnecessary things. When it has to happen, it will happen. Otherwise, it’s okay, no problem. At least here, while meditating, let us meditate. Let us not think those things, that can happen later.

So like this also, if you think; the doership will have to go. Otherwise most of the time goes into trying to take credit for everything, boasting for everything, “I did this, I did this.” Simply, you do it as a duty. I came and conducted retreats. That’s it. That was the divine’s work. There was nothing for me to boast. So many people worked and made it possible. All those people who listened to me also made it possible. So there is no point for me to boast that “I did this. I did this.” That doership also goes. It disappears from the mind. I don’t feel that I did so many things at all. That idea doesn’t come. So the mind will remain preoccupied with God, with that Self, Eternal Self that is Pure Consciousness. 

Question:

Yes, so it kind of summarizes in [Verse] 3 what the technique is. “When the mind is distracted into the illusions of the universe” or distracted by the mind, by what’s in the mind, “concentration of it [mind] is necessary to overcome this”.

Shri Babaji:

Concentration is necessary. So when we meditate, we have to concentrate on meditation. When we are taking food, concentrate on the food and enjoy eating food. When we have to be working in the office for a livelihood, concentrate there. Wherever we are, we need to concentrate on that job, that is very necessary. So the ‘concentration’ word is so important. Wherever you are, you can be a champion if you are concentrated. Then you will be disciplined also. 

Question:

So Baba, that’s kind of a second hidden principle here. Try to stay present is what you’re saying. With whatever you’re doing, stay present with that. Don’t allow your mind to wander around. 

Shri Babaji:

Be mindful and stay in the present. The power is in the now.

Question:

Nice, okay, now in Verse 4 it says, “Having neither nothing to either accept or reject, having neither joy nor sorrow, I now firmly rest in the Self”. What does that exactly mean? Because it doesn’t sound that interesting. Having neither joy or sorrow… I’m willing to give up sorrow, but I like joy. 

Shri Babaji:

It means here, suppose we find joy in a particular thing of the world. Simply, we need to understand that thing of the world, the matter, is not permanent. Universe is impermanent. So, whereas we enjoy this world also for a while, but before this starts giving us trouble, we need to find a permanent enjoyment within us. From where is it coming? Where is it possible? So if you practice to remain quiet and satisfied, contented, we can always be happy. So that is the technique. We have to catch hold of it. Neither joy, neither sorrow – it is of this world what they are talking. You have a right to be joyful. You have a right to have peace. That is your existence right. But if we try to depend too much on the matter, then unhappiness will also follow. If anything happens to that matter, if it goes away, then we are sad, and we keep worrying, “We are not getting, what is happening. This is happening.”

So it comes and goes. We get some holidays. Holiday is over, then we have to get into the work. But if we resist, “No, I don’t want to give up the holiday. I cannot work anymore,” that will not happen. God will slap — “Come, enough, let’s work now, come on, we have to work.” So wherever you are, be in the now, the present, then you start enjoying, then you will see all the time you are joyful. You are at peace. Cracking jokes on yourself, and enjoying the life simply and nothing really bothers or matters for you. Let go. It’s all over. Somebody has criticized something, it’s over. Don’t worry. And I tell them also, “I am not worrying about that. Why are you worrying, telling something to me? it’s finished. I am not carrying it in the mind. You also don’t carry in the mind. You let go.”

Those people who would have told something bad to me, they start feeling bad and they are unable to forget. I would have forgotten long ago. “I have done it, let go. You also let go. Don’t bother. An issue is not an issue. A problem is not a problem at all. Let’s forget. Let’s look forward. Meditate now. Come on.”

Question:

So Baba, as you meditate more, you can get rid of becoming a ruminator. A ruminator, you know, somebody that just can’t get things out of their mind. It plays over and over. They can’t get it out of their mind.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, that is what precisely they are talking here, taking out the things from the mind. If it is in the mind, your mind is going to be the casualty. Unnecessarily you are holding the garbage. You don’t want to throw it away. You keep kissing the garbage, so that will spoil your lips and mouth and everything, it gets spoiled with the garbage. You need to get rid of the garbage and clean up. Wash up your mouth cleanly. So like that, you have to wash up your mind. That’s what is needed. That’s why the spirituality, meditation exercises; so that you clean up your mind.

Question:

In your comments, it says, “The disciple, having achieved Self Realization, is settled into the Self effortlessly”. You use this term ‘effortlessly’; “Settled into the Self effortlessly.” You say that pretty often. Why do you say ‘effortlessly’? Is there any other way to settle into the Self, besides effortlessly?

Shri Babaji:

Effortlessly means to be at peace, to be in quietness for me, it is simple. Effortlessly, it [mind] goes back to that stage. If I have to talk, I have to put effort to bring it to the talking level, the consciousness to the level of the brain. If I have to think and say something, then I have to put an effort to bring it upwards to the level of brain and make it think. Then I have to put effort. So if I give it up, effortlessly it goes back to the Self and abides in the Self. That’s what is today’s chapter, ‘Abiding in the Self’. It abides in the Self. That is what I mean by ‘effortlessly’.

Question:

Baba, it’s exactly the reverse of what we experience. We experience that it’s an effort to meditate, and more effortless just to have mental chatter. But what you’re saying is your natural state is to be still and silent.

Shri Babaji:

Effortlessly always I’m into meditation because I’m in that Self. That awareness is there, that peace is there, contentment is there, because nothing else can replace this peace and happiness. 

Question:

Right, so as soon as you’re not having to engage in something, the mind just settles into stillness again.

Shri Babaji:

Exactly. That is what is effortless, the word I keep using. 

Question:

I think I’ve made a lot of progress that way. I’ve got a long way to go, I think, but yeah, I think everybody that meditates regularly and tries not get too involved in all their thinking — the mind is a lot quieter place. It’s actually a very quiet place.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, every individual can test themselves how, whether they are progressing in meditation or not, [by] whether a certain thing starts bothering too much. Suppose somebody made fun of me, criticized me, and told me something short, that “I don’t know this”. If it hurts, how long is it  going to be there in the mind? Instantly it might get erased, and I am free from it, let go. That’s done. It’s over. I’m not going to carry it in the mind. That means you are effortlessly in peace. That peace cannot be disturbed by anybody criticizing you or anybody praising you. That’s what; neither joyful, nor sorrowful, both you would have overcome. Transcended both the dualities. That’s what they are talking here.

So this will be possible when you are able to let go of things. You must understand, keeping things in the mind, such things which were bad in our life, is not worthy. It’s not going to help us. Already, one time they have criticized us, and I am going to criticize myself for 24 hours by keeping it, keeping it in my mind. It’s over. An issue is no issue. It’s over.

Question:

Baba, that brings us to the next point in the commentary, and that is, “Just accept the results as they come, so that you have peace. Along with this you need to understand the futility of actions.”

So this has been a big thing in my life, this ability to allow life to happen without getting involved in everything. The [ability of] accepting the results. You’ve said that over and over. This is the third thing so far, a pointer that you’ve said which can bring peace. That is if we can just accept results. You know, that doesn’t mean we can’t try to change them, but you have to accept where they are at that moment.

Shri Babaji:

You see, one thing, when Swamiji was made to sit for Tapas at the age of 14, the next day His mother came back from Kakinada town with her father, who had gone for a hospital cataract operation. Then she came to know her son is sitting for Tapas, and nobody knows what it is. She was shocked and worried. She went to Swamiji, and there were lot of ants moving on His body. She tries to remove. He signalled to keep quiet. Then He told her, “This status has come to me without my effort. There is One, that Supreme Divine is there. From there only whatever has to happen keeps happening. If we want to change also, it won’t change. No matter how many efforts you put, it’s not going to be changed. So better to keep remaining in silence.”

Ramana Maharishi also wrote to His mother, when His mother came and He spoke to her. Ramana Maharishi wrote on a paper, “Whatever we want to do, whatever the divine wants, only that will happen.” So when nothing happens by our willing, it is better to keep quiet mentally. That means here, what we have to understand, acceptance about the results. You put an effort, don’t give up always in life; you work for it. If still things doesn’t work, then accept it. “If this has to happen. This has happened. It’s all fine, no problem. God, you want to take, do this one. Oh, it’s fine. I’m not going to be worried. You cannot make me worry anything by taking away this thing from me or giving this to me. It’s no problem.”

Question:

You say, along with the ability to accept things, “You need to understand the futility of actions, as there’s nothing to achieve.” I’m not sure what that means, but “Everything we achieve, in the end we lose as the body perishes, making us lose consciousness of this world, and with that everything our body owned.” 

Shri Babaji:

So this is a very highly sensitive, highest truth of philosophy that one needs to understand. First, I need to clarify, living in the world, working in the world is not prohibited. You have to work. You do that, whatever way of life you would have adopted. At any time you can try to think, like Lord Rama said to Vasistha, “It seems the whole world is struggling to fill their belly. Food is necessary. If we don’t give food [to the body] we die, and if we go on giving food also we die one day.” Everyday you give food to the body. Still, it is not guaranteed that you can sustain this body forever. It is not possible. We all know that even if daily, I have to rush to have my dinner, definitely, it’s no problem, but that doesn’t guarantee that this body will not die at all.

So when this realization occurs, you continue eating, but you don’t depend on this world. If anything happens, it will be acceptable.

Question:

You have to shift your priorities.

Shri Babaji:

Shifting the priorities, yeah. So now let us prioritize achieving Self-Realization, achieving that Supreme Peace. This world is also a challenge, we have to live. While doing, achieving, doing Tapas also, we need a certain amount of food, whatever we can digest. But we live to eat, or we eat to live. Both are two different things; that is the old saying. Do not live to eat only, but eat to live. Prioritizing, what you said is the important thing here. What is priority? Food is necessary, but that is not that much of a priority that we forget God or we forget our real Self. Priority is our real Self, then comes food. Food is also necessary, but more than food, this Self-knowledge is very necessary. That which can assure us of Supreme Peace at all times. The awareness which gives us that secure existence knowledge, that we are going to exist all the times. So that is how we prioritize things.

Question:

Baba, that’s why these zoom calls with you are so important, because they motivate us and kind of inform us of the possibilities. What we are and what can be achieved. Otherwise it would really be difficult.

Shri Babaji:

Definitely, you see, prioritize; another example I will give. Suppose I am friendly with a person, like a very good friend, like a brother, but my priority is my Guru’s mission, the Ashram that He has established. I have to safeguard, protect, so that seekers can come and sit here and meditate. Suppose that friend challenges me for this, I will prioritize looking after the Ashram. I will give up that friendship. That friendship was also equally important, nice. It was always beautiful. We used to sit and talk philosophy. We used to sit and eat together. But when that person challenged the very existence of this Ashram, I had to set a priority, either I am going to be with the friend or going to be with the monastery my Guru established. So I had to prioritize. My Guru’s established monastery is more important for me than that friend. If that is challenged I will give up that friend. Ambaji also said, there were so many boys who were there. She was very loving, like a mother. She looked after them, but when they tried to abuse me, she said, “Look, I was friendly with you. You were like my child as long as you are with Babaji, because my priority is Babaji. If you are going to abuse Babaji, then you are nobody for me, you all go. I’m not going to worry for you. I want Babaji.” She told this, frankly. Like that you prioritize what you want.

Question:

So here, when you say there is nothing to achieve, what you’re saying is that anything you achieve in this world is impermanent, it is not going to bring you peace. So it’s really equivalent to nothing?

Shri Babaji:

Finally, that awareness needs to be there. It’s not going to be there at all times. Today, you are the prime minister. Tomorrow, you may not be. Today, I am the chairman of the monastery. Tomorrow, I may not be. This chairmanship of the monastery is not permanent, it’s impermanent. We have to be ready. If somebody comes and is ready to take over, “Yes, please take over, no problem.” So like that. But that knowledge and wisdom, that Supreme Peace within me is permanent. Nobody can take it over. That’s why the old saying is “Love is the only thing which increases when you share it with others.” Bananas will not increase; ice cream will not increase; properties will not increase when you share it with others. But love, you share the love, it will increase. So that is the peace and Self-knowledge awareness — prioritizing.

Question:

Going on in your commentary here you say, “There is nothing wrong in indulging in actions for now. Simply don’t remain attached to the results. If you get rid of the imaginations of your mind, which are the basic problem, you can attain liberation from the painful actions which result in birth and death of the body again and again. It is the imaginations making one involved into the bondage of happiness and unhappiness of this world, which has come into existence temporarily due to imaginations, generating actions through the body and speech and making you involved in its results, which always make you lose peace. Your very nature is Supreme Peace and the rest is unreal.” It’s kind of the punchline there.

Shri Babaji:

Again, it is the same, prioritizing the thing. On one side, we want the peace, on the other side, this worldly thing. You put an effort. You be active. Take an action to achieve something. It might happen or it might not happen, but your peace must not depend on the happening or not happening. Then you will lose peace. It need not be. The peace can be without happening or not happening. The peace can be permanent because you need to be peaceful. It is simple. If you are going to be peaceful, you have peace. So thus, do not allow anything of this world to disturb that peace. That peace gets disturbed when you become attached to the results. So now you prioritize which one you want. Are you happy losing the peace and getting into trouble unnecessarily by going after this, by missing that material? Or, if you don’t want to give up the peace? Let go of the things of the world. It’s impermanent. Let go, it’s okay. If this is troubling, let go.

There was a vision for me before Swamiji made me to sit for Tapas. I told people, Swamiji showed two things: He was sitting on a throne, and all the properties He had established, like ashrams and monasteries. He didn’t tell anything, but told me one thing, “You choose whichever one you want, you take it,” this sentence He told. For a second I didn’t understand what He was trying to tell. Then, luckily, it struck my mind, “Oh, on one side, it is Swamiji. On the other side are all the properties He has established.” I thought, “I need Swamiji more than the properties that He has done.” These Ashrams can be there, they are helpful. We have to be grateful. Like this Ashram in Dehradun for the last 50 years has given me a place, a shelter, food, everything for my life. We are grateful for that. But this is not permanent. This can be snatched. But my Swamiji is permanent in my heart. Nobody can snatch that one. It is important. So I said, “I choose Swamiji. I want Swamiji only.” Ashrams can come and go, it’s no problem. I can sit under a tree, also. Anybody who wants Babaji, they won’t say that only if I am sitting in the Ashram they will come. Anywhere I am sitting, if they come to know Babaji is there, they come to see me. Even if I sit under a tree, also, they will come to see me, “Babaji is sitting there, let’s go and meet him.” Like that, it’s simple. So that is how you prioritize. You set importance which one you need and which one you have to give up.

Question:

So Baba, choosing Swamiji or the Ashram, that’s the basic decision we all have to prioritize everyday, and that’s either the Self or the mind.

Shri Babaji:

 Finally, that is what it is.

Question:

Okay, reading on. “Your very nature is Supreme Peace and the rest is unreal. When the mind becomes totally quiet and does not get attached to any sounds, thoughts or visions and doesn’t try to analyze or make any judgments about any experiences of sound or sight, then the mind becomes quiet and abides in the Self. This is what is known as the mind merging into the Ultimate Truth of the Self.” So that’s just describing the meditation, really. All these other things; a lot of important things we can practice during the day to quiet our mind.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, people ask during the daytime when active, is there anything we can do to keep the mind focused or concentrated. Like this, when acceptance comes, daily you be active. When it happens, it happens. If it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen. That’s it. Keep going. Don’t look back. Prioritize. What you need is peace, peace and happiness. “If this is with me, or this is not with me, I’m not going to lose my peace and happiness.” Like that, because peace and happiness is so necessary, joyfulness all the time.

Question:

If you don’t accept then the mind spins.

Shri Babaji:

Mind will go into brooding. It will become unhappy. It will go into frustration, disappointment, it will be hurt, and it will bang its head; goes into a head on collision with the world. 

Question:

Yeah, the world must have a real headache these days. Lot of head on collisions. Okay. “Some say there is nothing to be done, as the truth is already there and perfect.” And you say, “That does not mean that you don’t have to do anything. Some even say to impress their devotees, ‘Oh, you’re already realized, and there’s nothing to do.’ Then such people don’t do any sadhana and live under the illusion of imagination that they are realized. If the mind is into imaginations, then you have to do sadhana to achieve silence of the mind.” I’ll read that again. “If the mind is into imaginations, then you have to do sadhana to achieve silence of the mind. An effort has to be made to concentrate the mind by watching and not doing anything else.”

Shri Babaji:

See, this is what I have said. Some gurus, by reading the scriptures, they try to show their knowledge which is not actually a knowledge. “There is nothing you have to do; you are already there.” But that realization is not there, actually, that awareness has not come. Mind has lost its peace. It is into spinning. This is the reality in front of you. So to achieve that nothingness, you have to do something. 

The car is speeding. Nobody can tell you that you don’t have to do anything, the car is already in a halt position. No, it is not in a halt position. The car is speeding. You need to bring it to a halt. You have to do something to bring it to a halt. The mind is spinning. It is speeding like a car, spinning like a monkey. It will not keep quiet. It is not enjoying the peace. So you have to do something to achieve that mind to become quiet. Then it is already there.

Here what people misunderstand, there is nothing that you have to newly achieve. You have to simply become aware of what you really are. I repeat the sentence, there is nothing that you have to newly achieve, anything, but you have to become aware of what you really, already are. For this only, you have to put in efforts. For this only, you have to meditate. You have to quieten the mind. You quieten the mind, then you are in the quietness, and you become peaceful. Then you become aware of what you are.

Simply in the same mind, so many millions of thoughts and visions are there, you have lost awareness of what you really are. Say, suppose you are the mind. You have lost awareness of yourself, what the mind is, Self. Mind has lost awareness of itself, what it is. It is aware of only thoughts and visions. That’s when I keep telling, nobody knows what the mind is, because nobody has bothered ever. They all know, everybody recognizes there is a mind. That is because of thoughts and visions. Bundles of thoughts are there. But what is that mind itself? Have you ever bothered? If you bother for that, you become aware of what it is. To become aware of what it is, you have to bother to stop the mind first. So this much of effort is necessary. So a person who behaves like a guru, telling “There is nothing that you have to do, you are already there,” has no meaning. Something wrong has happened. You need to rectify that wrong.

Question:

Now, you say further on page 61, “By a thought of the mind, you cannot know your real Self. Only by becoming quiet in the mind can you know your real Self. Just as the object in the mind can’t think and know about the mind, any other object or character can never measure or know the space; only space can measure the space. To know the space, you have to become space.”

Shri Babaji:

For the comments I wrote; the mind to know itself, it has to give up its preoccupation with its imagination, then it will know itself. By being a separate entity, it can never know what it is. Other than space, when you become something else other than space; you become a human being, or you become a galaxy, or you become a Milky Way, anything, still you cannot measure the space. Only when you become space itself you have already measured the space, done – you are one with the space, and there is nothing else to measure. That’s what is telling, the space measuring the space. So that’s why there is nothing that you can know. You have to become quiet and abiding in the Self, this is what it is, important.

Just you have to abide in yourself, giving up all imaginations, that is what is needed. There is nothing that you have to know about yourself. Knowing yourself is not possible. It is simply all pervaded. Amazing. Whatever you try to explain will be limited, always. We cannot… any guru tells, “Oh, I have measured the space. It is 50,000 light years of distance.” We will understand, “Oh this Guru is cheating. He himself is fooling himself, and is trying to fool me! He cannot measure; nobody can measure.” So that’s why Swamiji used to tell, if anybody tells, “I have come to know of God, and I can do it for you”, don’t believe. He’s trying to cheat you and he’s cheating himself. Those who tell “You have to do it and achieve the truth to yourself,” is the real teacher.

Question:

Yeah, I’ve said this before, but that was one of the things that endeared me to you. When I first met you, you said, if any anybody tells you they’re going to give you Self-Realization, run as fast as you can.

Okay, just to finish this paragraph, “By a thought of the mind, you cannot know your real Self. Only by becoming quiet in the mind can you know your real Self. You have to become That. This should be the purpose of life. This should be achieved. One who has achieved is blessed indeed. Such a one is rare.”

Shri Babaji:

So this is why I have told, mind can never give the truth, because it gives only what it imagines, thus it can never give the truth of what it is. If it becomes quiet, then what remains is the Truth, and that Truth cannot be defined. You have to experience. Just be one with it. Abiding in the Self only can help you, nothing else. Nobody can know it, impossible.

Question:

Yeah, you have said also Baba, “I assure you that you cannot make yourself disappear. You can make everything else disappear, but you can’t make yourself disappear.”

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, in meditation, you can make all the thoughts and visions disappear, then you will come to your consciousness of existence, that will never disappear. You try, you cannot make it disappear. You get absorbed into that in fact. You concentrate on that one. Whereas, when you watch a thought, all those thoughts will disappear. Then finally, suppose you achieve that you have got ridden of all thoughts and visions. Mind has become totally quiet and pure consciousness. Then you become aware of that consciousness of existence. Then you watch that, focus on that. What happens here, that consciousness of existence will not disappear. Instead, you will get sucked into that one. That is how you will lose your own identity. That ‘I’ gets dissolved. Until then the ‘I’ was making all the thoughts disappear and dissolve. But now when the Truth comes, it comes face to face to the Truth, this ‘I’ itself gets dissolved into the Truth. It becomes one with the Truth. Finished. There is nothing to tell further.

Question:

So at that point, there’s no will. You couldn’t will anything to happen. So it just happens spontaneously, like a tractor-beam?

Shri Babaji:

That’s it. That’s what happens, spontaneously it gets absorbed into the Self. That’s what is abiding in the Self, just being there.

Question:

Atma namaste Guruji.

Shri Babaji:

 Okay, yeah, my blessings. 

Question:

It’s a real pleasure and blessings to have you. I would like to ask you a question, because one year back, I just bumped into you on YouTube, and I don’t know, I was very attracted to that. I’ve been reading on shivabalayogi.org on the internet, and on that they explained the meditation. He says that when you start to meditate, after about 40 minutes the mind and body gets still. Is it at that time that the thoughts gets purified?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, that’s what it is. We keep telling, when you simply watch in between eyebrows, then the thoughts all get purified if you don’t get involved with the thoughts. That’s what is important. That means when you stop doing that one. You are getting engaged with the thoughts and visions by analyzing or with judgments, and “Why this, why not?” Like that you are getting involved. Do not get involved. That’s what is “Do not imagine anything.” Then they all disappear.

Question:

Okay, Babaji, thank you so much.

Question:

Hi, Baba. Anyway, I always want to cry after a meditation. I find it very frightening when you’re all alone.

Shri Babaji:

There’s nothing to worry. Because you are thinking you are the body, you start thinking you are all alone. Don’t worry, God is with you always. If there is nobody else, always God is always with you. Reassure yourself, then you won’t feel that loneliness or that fearfulness or that crying. Just meditate. When you meditate, you see, what remains in the consciousness is what is divinity. Then you will start feeling so secure yourself, “Ah, this is what I wanted. This is my father. This is the kingdom. This is my Lord.” Think like that one positively. Then you can overcome that fear or scariness.

Question:

Namaste Babaji. When memory and time is the material of the mind, can the mind observe without memory and time?

Shri Babaji:

Memory is actually in the brain. Tapping that, the mind can regain what happened in the past. That’s how the memory comes to it. If that is gone, it won’t remember exactly anything. Just like the previous life things; you won’t remember, but you will be carrying as a symptom in your mind of such habits that you would have come across or you would have behaved. These behavioral structures may be there as a basic nature, but you won’t remember. That’s how here also; when the brain is tapped only the memory will be there, otherwise, that memory will be a temporary loss in the mind. Mind won’t be able to remember exactly what happened.

Question:

I had two questions. One interesting concept that was mentioned. So is Supreme Peace the ultimate goal of life? Is that what it is?

Shri Babaji:

Definitely. I would say definitely, because it is for peace and happiness everybody is looking for. They want happiness. Nobody wants unhappiness, but by habit they get involved into unhappiness. So Supreme Peace, achieving. When you achieve Self Realization, you will realize you are that source of Supreme Peace. Thus you will be achieving a Supreme Peace also. That is the ultimate goal actually.

Question:

Oh, fascinating. And another thing I would ask you, if you can explain again. You mentioned that when your mind is completely quiet, then you dissolve in the consciousness. Or what’s the process? What’s happening?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, first you start it as a mind watching the thoughts. So when all thoughts disappear one day, what remains is the Pure Consciousness. That gets absorbed into the Consciousness of Existence, its origin. So that’s what I was trying to explain.

Question:

Okay, I usually feel like a huge energy when my thoughts go away. I feel like an energy that I almost cannot bear. 

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, that is the glimpse that you are getting. Exactly, that’s what it is. To make it permanent and effortless, you have to meditate more, and one day that will happen. That’s what it is.

Question:

So I just have to try to keep that energy going, keep that state?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, keep that state. Practice that.

Question:

So that energy is my consciousness?

Shri Babaji:

Definitely. Your consciousness is what that energy is also.

Question:

And that’s going to eventually get absorbed into the universal consciousness?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, yes, into the universal consciousness.

Question:

Thank you. Babaji. I highly appreciate it.

Question:

Baba, could I comment on that or ask a question? So, we don’t really get absorbed into the Self, into the Pure Consciousness. We are the Pure Consciousness. It’s just the illusion that I am a separate being is what ends, right?

Shri Babaji:

It is an illusion, definitely. But that is how the process is to explain. Because when it was busy with its imaginations, in consciousness only it was away from its real Self. It had not gone anywhere else. Then and there itself it is spinning. Because of that spinning it has forgotten its mothership. Now, once it gives up this spinning and thoughts all disappear, abiding in the Self, it is there. It realizes it is already there. 

Question:

 I wanted to ask a question regarding what you were saying about accepting the results. I’m going to have to use an example for me to pose the question, because it’s a rather difficult question for me to pose.

For a long time, I had been wanting to make a business out of art in order to support myself. At this point of my path, I really don’t care about doing any of that anymore. I just had no more desire for that. And yet, recently, all of these opportunities have been coming to me to turn my art into a business. Like the universe seems to have just opened it up, and all of these remarkable experiences are being offered to me.

So my question is, how can I tell if that is happening because I have set in motion the results of that desire a long time ago, or is that happening because that is what the universe wants from me at this point?

Shri Babaji:

No, it is happening because long time ago you had set it. So that sits in the subconscious state as a wish. Then that’s what comes out again and again. So either you go for that one, you achieve something – if the achieving is not happening, then also don’t feel disappointed. Keep meditating so that wish itself might disappear one day from the subconscious state also.

Question:

Oh, that’s so helpful, because I’m confused, because I really don’t care anymore that it’s coming, but I don’t want to refuse a gift that’s coming from the universe. But that makes so much sense. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Question:

Namaste Babaji. As you told earlier, everyone has experienced the same thing, where we have to achieve. Where we have to go, to realize the Self. Is it possible that everyone in this universe has already experienced the Self Realization, but never got to that point where we want to reach?

Shri Babaji:

Everybody is that Self only. Simply, people are not aware because of their preoccupation with other things, of imaginations. That’s what we are trying to tell. So finally, everybody has to go back to the Self only if they want Supreme Peace and Happiness. That’s what everybody is looking for, that is in the Self only. So everybody has to go through this process of getting rid of the imaginations so that they abide in the Self.

Question:

It means we have to go through that long process, then we achieve that Self Realized process?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, but should not worry about it. Keep going, keep going. One day you will be on top of the mountain. You will reach that one. One at a time you just keep meditating, that stage will come definitely one day.

Question:

At the last session, you have mentioned the clue that there was extreme darkness at top of the mountain where we have to reach.

Shri Babaji:

Mountain could be used symbolically, somebody would have said. It might appear to be dark, but you don’t think it as a dark. It is the Supreme Consciousness and energetic force. In your consciousness when there are no thoughts and visions there, what remains is that Truth actually.

Question:

Just a small question, Baba. When the body dies, does the ego die with it? And when it’s reincarnated, is it that same ego that moves on to the next body?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, you see, actually that ego does not die. Ego means the mind, what we call it. Mind as the soul, jivan atma, soul. When brain dies, it [mind] gets detached from the brain, but the mind is holding impressions, thoughts and visions are there. Then it spins, intensity of thoughts form. This ego forms the intensity of thoughts. That is what assumes next body, next incarnation. It is that soul which assumes the body. That is how the next birth happens.

See, when people are born, they bring a basic nature also. We tell, like when parents have two, three children, they will try to look after all children equally, yet different children may pick up different attitudes, temperament, understanding abilities and observation capabilities, because they are bringing from previous lives. So that ego is carried further also. Until you clear through meditation and achieve the Self Realization this will be there. Life after life, life after life. It keeps happening.

Question:

So that ego basically is carried in the mind, and the mind is the one which is reincarnating every time?

Shri Babaji:

Exactly, right. Very true.

End of Session