0:00 Intro
0:06 Ch.12 Verse 5, rejecting objects which are created by the mind.
1:57 Is it a practice to ignore the mental chatter?
3:30 Ch.12, Verse 6 – abstaining from action, and acting to achieve a desired result – both are born out of ignorance.
3:52 Ch.12, Verse 7 – renouncing all thought for awareness of the Self
4:49 By a thought of the mind, you cannot know your real Self. To know the space, you have to be the space.
6:41 The one who’s reached That has reached the final goal, completely fulfilled and blessed.
10:46 Turn off the mind, then you merge with the Self.
12:30 Is that state of peace pure existence?
12:56 Consciousness gets caught up in the creation, thinking it is what it has created, and forgets that it is in a state of freedom.
14:11 Ch. 13, Verse 1 – “having given up both renunciation and acceptance, I am happy.”
15:03 Ch. 13, Verse 3 – “Resting in the Self, realizing no actions are actually being done. I carry out activities in the world simply as they present themselves, truly happy.”
17:23 Becoming aware of the Self it has realized that it’s not the body or the mind and doesn’t identify with being that anymore.
18:26 What makes the body-mind run after Self Realization?
19:49 When you are Self Realized is it true that only the moment exists.
21:03 For a lot of people, missing the past is not the problem. It’s fear of the past, thinking it’s going to come back.
21:48 Mind’s tendency to recognize, analyze, and judge thus acquiring imprints which form habits and attitudes.
25:00 Babaji is detached, in that consciousness, so is not involved in actions – yet You are the most compassionate person.
27:20 So once you are Self Realized, the personality is running on whatever impressions have been formed along the way?
28:29 “This cannot be practiced by reading books or listening to talks, only by experience of the Self this state of mind comes.”
32:50 “The mind needs to become totally quiet, only then the ability to see God everywhere, in everything, as everything, comes.”
34:34 Ch.13, Verse 4 – “Abandoning now both involvement and detachment. I rest truly happy.”
34:56 Ch.13, Verse 5 – “Whether I stay or go or sleep, I live truly happy.”
35:08 Ch.13, Verse 6 – “Giving up thoughts of sad loss or exciting gain, I live happily.”
35:22 Ch.13, Verse 7 – “I have renounced identification with good or evil. I live in true happiness.”
36:38 Whether you undertake action bodily or not, It is important to renounce by mind and not absorb any imprints or doership.
40:36 Giving up any absorption in the mind and becoming quiet in the mind gives Self awareness and Supreme Peace.
41:45 If we depend on the happiness of this world, unhappiness definitely follows. If there is unhappiness, happiness follows.
44:19 Happiness is temporary, generated within the mind, whereas supreme peace is permanent and beyond the mind – so happiness sounds like a step below Supreme Peace?
47:30 These talks are really helpful for focusing in on what you need to be at peace, what you need to be happy.
49:10 Are all actions of the body predetermined once it comes into existence?
54:10 “The director is creating the drama and producing the characters, both good and evil, that play the roles of the drama.”
56:30 How to pray to the Divine, if thinking takes us away from the Self?
59:46 The story of Shikhidvaja and Chudala. The teaching that the King could get enlightenment while living in a kingdom as well.
1:02:41 Is self realization possible just with self knowledge and awareness, without meditation practice — for some rare seekers?
1:04:30 Even though we do our daily duties with without attachment, the mind still holds on to some kind of expectations.
1:06:05 How do we give up the attachments? Sadhana, I think would would help?

Ashtavakra Gita, Ch.12/13 “Abiding in the Self”/ “Happiness” | In Quest of Truth – Babaji Q&A, No.238

Recorded on 13 July 2025 with US participants

Question:

So, Verse 5. “Conscious of being in a certain stage of life or not, meditation, rejecting objects which are actually created by the mind, these distractions are all gone. I abide in the Self.” Would you like to say something Baba?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah. Rejecting objects created by the mind has to happen in the mind only, actually; rejecting them. Simply, we cannot reject the earth and go somewhere else, and we would have to reject the body also.   Such things don’t happen. We don’t know. But what we can know is the things that the mind has created, such relationships, such bondage, such ownership, such owning the things; like “These objects are mine, this property is mine.” We can try to reject them in the mind; “Nothing belongs to me, because I myself am not there.” That ‘I’ is only an individual imagined self, so there is no point in carrying that  “I own this, this is me, this is mine,” all those things.

So they simply keep giving, unhappiness, tension, or fear of losing, or something like that. That’s what even Bhagavad Gita is talking, “Tyagat Shanti Anantaram” — you get peace only after sacrificing. The same thing Ashtavakra also talks, you have to reject in the mind, then you have peace. So that’s the essence of these verses.

Question:

Yes, in Your commentary You say, “Simply by renouncing a particular action and getting involved in another action, the mind will not become quiet. The mind has to realize and become quiet by not bothering about anything — even ignoring the habits of the mind is necessary to become quiet.” Is that a practice Baba? We can practice ignoring a lot of the mental chatter that we have?

Shri Babaji:

That what you are precisely practicing when you sit for meditation. Means in meditation, many people might misunderstand that you are meditating on something else. In meditation, actually you are practicing to keep quiet mentally. That’s what you are doing when you are just watching and not doing anything. You are practicing to reject everything that is in the mind. All ideas need to be dropped, all imaginations need to be dropped, because they are simply imaginations. The mind has imagined, and that’s why things appear to be so. Thus the mind can never give the truth, because it gives only what it imagines. This needs to be dropped. That’s what can happen when you just watch and don’t get engaged with the thoughts and visions. That’s what is the essence of these verses’ teachings.

Question:

Okay, Verse 6. “Both abstaining from action and also acting to achieve a desired result, both are born out of ignorance. Truly knowing this truth, I now abide settled in the Self.”

Verse 7. “Thinking of That which is beyond thought — is still thinking. Renouncing all thought, I now live in the Self.”

Shri Babaji:

I have explained, as there is no relative existence for the Ultimate Truth, by thinking, by using a terminology, by using a language, you can never explain it as it is, impossible. You have to go beyond thinking. That means the mind has to become totally quiet. Then the mind’s attention turns to itself, or in other words, I keep saying, the Consciousness of Existence. That’s where it gets absorbed into the Self eventually, and giving awareness of the Self also.

Question:

In Your commentary, Baba, in the book, You say, “By a thought of the mind, you cannot know your real Self. Only by becoming quiet in the mind can you know your real Self. To know the space, you have to be the space. By becoming a relative existence, you can never know the Truth. You have to become That” — capital T.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, that’s what I have tried to explain. If you try to take the space which is all pervaded – this word we keep using, all pervaded, omnipresent; but how it is all pervaded is impossible to know. Just by being in the body or through the body, you cannot travel the length and breadth of the space and tell, “Oh, I have seen the space and how it is”, and “This is the space” — impossible. For that, you have to become space itself. Only the space can measure the space. Nothing else can measure space, impossible. That is what one needs to understand. That’s why you have to become silent. That means, by imagining a language or a sentence, you can never know what the Ultimate Truth is. Because by thinking we always tend to think of it as something. Something that can be perceived by the sensory organs. We should be able to see it or smell it or listen to it, something. We are used to that one. It is beyond all these things.

Question:

It can’t be perceived, conceived or known through intuition.

Shri Babaji:

Inconceivable [Babaji laughs]. That is the thing.

Question:

Baba, in Verse 8 it says, “The one who’s reached That has reached the final goal, completely fulfilled and blessed.” And then in Your commentary, You say, “This should be the purpose of life. This should be achieved. One who has achieved is blessed.”

Shri Babaji:

Yes, that’s what we have tried to tell. Having obtained a human body, which is the rarest of rare gems, we have a well-developed brain, is able to discriminate the real from unreal and right and wrong. Everything is possible. So, if we want to achieve, we must achieve the highest, after which there must not be anything else to achieve. Thus, if we are looking for peace and happiness, that must be the final peace we must achieve. If we are looking for ourselves, to know ourselves better, we must achieve the true Self of ours — which is the final, after which nothing else exists — no higher Self exists after that.

People keep telling “true self, this self, that self”, there is no such thing. Only one Self is there. That is You. Once you merge with that one, you being there, be in that One, that is all, and there is nothing else to go beyond. That is beyond everything. That which is beyond everything, and there is nothing else there beyond that, that is the Ultimate Truth, that is the Self, real Self. To abide in That, first you have to achieve silence of the mind. That’s what everybody needs to understand. Then understand the effect of just watching. If you are just watching, know that you stop thinking gradually. When you don’t think, all thoughts and visions disappear. They are all there because of your thinking. ‘Your thinking’ means you are imagining. You are creative. Your mind consistently keeps creating thought after thought, thought after thought, thought after thought, vision after vision, story after story. It keeps knitting and knitting, knitting like a chatterbox. That you have to stop. To stop that, the technological thing is that you just watch. Mentally, you just watch.

That’s why I keep telling, when we initiate you into this meditation, no target is given. We are not telling you what is it that you have to watch. Just asking you to watch in between eyebrows. There is a difference. Watching in between eyebrows and to watch a particular thing is different. If I ask you to watch a particular thing, then you will start imagining about that thing. So, there is no need to imagine anything. Just watch in between eyebrows. This will help you to get rid of all imaginations. That means, you must understand, the mind is trying to watch itself. You are trying to become aware of your Self. That’s what. First you have to become quiet. So, you are trying to become quiet mentally. That’s what the meditation is. That’s what in this one hour you all were trying to do when I asked you to just watch in between eyebrows and don’t repeat any mantra. Don’t imagine about anything. If thoughts and visions come, don’t imagine, then you can get rid of all ideas born out of mind’s imagination, and when the mind becomes quiet, you get into the reality of existence.

Question:

Yes, even intellectually or mentally, when you recognize that you can’t be your body, you’re not your body. You’re not the thoughts that you’re having. And then become aware that, somebody is witnessing or watching this whole thing, and that’s who I am. But who is that? And the only way you can find out is to turn off the television, you have to turn off the mind.

Shri Babaji:

Turn off the mind, turn off the mind. Even in the “Neti, neti” which means “This is not me, this is not me” – all matter, including the physical body, if you try to [see] whether it is this or not, you will come [to the conclusion] it is not me because it is impermanent. It’s going to go away. And that is not from where the Consciousness of Existence is coming. That ‘I’ is not arising from any of the matter, any of the bodies, if you keenly observe. Then, when the mind becomes quiet, it is within the mind, that Consciousness of Existence, that ‘I’. When the mind gets absorbed into that ‘I’, the ‘I’ also disappears. It exists, but there is no thought of the ‘I’. Then it merges with the Self. That means there all ideas have been dropped. Everything else came into existence because of the creativity of that Self only. If that Self stops that creativity of itself, it is being there. It just becomes quiet, and it can remain at peace.

Question:

So Baba, is that state of Supreme Peace just Pure Consciousness? Could you also call it pure existence?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, purely existence or Pure Consciousness, both are same.  These terms, only for sake of understanding and communication a teacher has to use.

Question:

It seems existence becomes conscious, and it is still unbounded or boundless, but then it begins to think, or  imagine, and then it gets involved. Creation happens, and then Consciousness gets caught up in the creation, thinking it is what it has created, and forgets that it is in a state of freedom.

Shri Babaji:

In duality, to tell; that Truth which is Pure Consciousness, that existence which is Pure Consciousness, that can be told in a duality, but when you become that there is nothing to tell, you just become quiet. That’s why I keep using the terminology of ‘Consciousness of Existence is arising’; observe that. Then this mind which is watching also gets absorbed into that one. Then this Consciousness of Existence also disappears. Only the Self exists.

Question:

Okay, Baba, we’ll move on to Chapter 13 of the Ashtavakra Gita. This is Janaka speaking in Chapter 13, and it’s titled ‘Happiness’. 

Janaka speaks, Verse 1. “It is difficult for anyone to attain that state of resting in the True Self with no sense of owning even the slightest thing, even if it’s only a loincloth. Now, having given up both renunciation and acceptance, I am happy.”

Verse 2. At some time or other, the body will be troubled, or the tongue will falter, or the mind will tire out. Renouncing all of these, I now rest in that ultimate goal, happy.

Verse 3. Resting in the Self, realizing no actions are actually being done, I carry out activities in the world simply as they present themselves, truly happy.

Shri Babaji:

See, while active in the world, we don’t get attached either to the actions or to the results. Simply as it comes, we go on attending to that one. Like, we don’t remain attached to the Zoom all the time. As it comes, we attend, we execute; as the questions come, we answer. As the suggestion come, “Would you like to do Zoom?” We just say, “Yes, I am in”, and that’s it. Like that it goes on mechanically. I don’t have to prepare mentally. I don’t have to keep thinking mentally, “Oh, whole week, will Agastya call me for the Zoom? Will it happen? Will it not happen?” That doesn’t occur to the mind at all. I would have forgotten totally, until you remind me, “Would you like to do the Zoom?”, like that. “Ah, yes, we can do it, no problem.”

Like that, mechanically we keep doing but there is nothing in the mind. It is pure, simply quiet, in the silence, the ever-silent one is there. And thus, it has the contentment, peace, abiding in the Self. It is there in the Self all the time. So there is nothing to lose, because it doesn’t own anything at all. If we own anything, then there is a fear of losing. We don’t have to lose because we don’t own anything at all. We don’t even own this physical body also; we do not own. So there is nothing that we have to lose. It came into existence. At that time, this body did not ask me, “Can I come into existence?” It came into existence. So, the day when it dies, it will not ask me, “Can I go away? Can I die?” It won’t ask my permission. It will do it. It will happen. So that’s it, finished.

Question:

So, the key there is that in becoming aware of the Self, it has realized that it’s not the body or the mind and doesn’t identify with being that anymore. So, it’s not worried about what the body and the mind are doing?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, when we are totally beyond everything, we have transcended everything, actually, and we are not this. If we are body, we have to worry so much. A hunger will happen and we need to sleep, we need to do this thing.  Mentally we won’t worry. When body needs, mechanically the food is given and it takes. That’s it that happens. But for that, we don’t have to be imagining the whole world, whole day or the whole week, and wanting that. Craving will not happen. There is no craving, it is at peace. When the food comes by destiny, that is given to the body. That is taken, that’s it,

Question:

Baba, what makes the body-mind run after Self Realization? Once the Self is realized, is the truth that the body and the mind are kind of just running mechanically?

Shri Babaji:

Mechanically, and just at that moment, as it comes, it works. Like it is the moment. Until the question comes, I don’t know what I am answering, what I have to do. And nothing is in my mind also, I am quiet. As the question comes, spontaneously the answer comes. I don’t have to prepare – because I don’t know what the question is, where is the question of preparing to answer the question? I don’t know what it is, what you are going to ask. You ask, on this topic you ask, and it spontaneously comes. For this, I don’t have to do a reading and make preparations. Just like that, every action also, you face the moment, that is all. When the time comes, it happens, and we do it. For that, mentally, I don’t have to induce the body by exerting pressure and imagination. It is not necessary. It can remain silent. Quietly the body mechanically keeps doing.

Question:

So, Baba, when you are Self Realized, is it true that only the moment exists?

Shri Babaji:

Always it is in the present. The present is always contented and at peace, because there is no imagination. There is no gaining anything, no losing of anything, and nothing belongs to me. So, simply in the awareness, you are in the present moment all the time. Present moment is always contented and supremely peaceful. Only the past brooding – if it is to the past, the mind goes into brooding. Brooding means remembering the past, missing something. “Oh, it is not there. How nice it used to be in my childhood. How beautiful it used to be.” You start missing things. There is no such thing. The future also, you become anxious. “Oh, tomorrow, it has to happen. What if it doesn’t happen? The cooking is not going to happen, what will I eat? My God…” Then whole night I won’t be able to sleep, I’ll be worrying. But in the present, just at peace.

Question:

You know, Baba, for a lot of people, missing the past is not the problem. It’s fear of the past, thinking it’s going to come back.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, that’s what the brooding generates further — fear, fear things. If a certain bad thing had happened, they don’t want that thing to come back. Remembering that thing can create such a scary situation. “Oh, God, in my childhood, there was such abuse. I don’t want that to come back.” That’s how they are unable to forget also. Instead they should be happy. It is not there now. It is over. It’s not going to come back. It’s all done, finished.

Question:

Okay, Baba, I’d like to read some of Your commentary from the book, related to these three Verses. First, you say tranquility is the nature of Pure Consciousness, which is the Self. The mind has gone out of control since time immemorial; by its actions of recognizing, analyzing, judging, it acquires imprints which form habits and attitudes. This is the cause of the birth and death experience in consciousness.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah. You see, the mind, if it is quiet, there is no recognizing of any thought or any outside matter or anything, not even the body also. When it doesn’t recognize, there is no analyzing because this is the tendency of the mind. The moment it recognizes it has to analyze, “This is good, this is bad, this is mine. Oh, this is not mine. I need this. I don’t need this,” like that. All dualities, hundreds and thousands and millions can keep coming. And then it makes a judgment, “Definitely I need it” — that is the judgment. Then that is absorbed in the mind — you are unable to forget. “Oh, God, I need it. I cannot forget. I cannot give up. I need it.” Then you lose peace; all the time you keep worrying about that one.

For a yogi, all these effects have been done with, there is no recognizing. I have spoken about the mind’s tendencies. It recognizes, it analyzes and makes a judgment in quick succession. When it is not there for a yogi, there is neither recognizing, nor any analyzing, and the question of judgment doesn’t arise. Yogi never judges anybody, anything in the world. Whatever in this world is happening, mentally there is no judgment. Outside, I might work if necessary. If somebody is being troubled; that other person is troubling one, I can tell “This is very bad, don’t trouble that person.” Like that, we can react mechanically. But mentally, I am not thinking all the time about such things. Such a thing doesn’t occur. So, somebody has to prick, somebody has to tell.

That’s when Vasistha talking in Yoga Vasistha; “If somebody prays, Yogi can become compassionate. Otherwise, Yogi would be just like inert.  It is like inert. He cannot even afford to feel sorry for himself. He doesn’t feel sorry for the world, also. When nothing exists, where is the feeling of sorry?” So, all these effects would have gone, and then it is the Pure Consciousness. You are just being there. That’s what is existing in the Self always.

Question:

Baba, there are so many seeming contradictions. For example, you say you’re not even concerned about yourself, but you’re the most compassionate person I’ve ever met. And you say you don’t even recognize the world, but yet you’re the most alert person I’ve met too. How do these coexist? I know detached, you are that consciousness, so you’re not involved in the actions.

Shri Babaji:

By nature, by practice that naturally, effortlessly comes to me; being compassionate, not to hurt anybody, talk softly, try to explain questions also. Probably in the younger age, seeing certain gurus, when they don’t know the answer properly, they would have read a book and whatever they say one has to accept. If you ask a question they would get irritated. They will get annoyed. “This is all the things. You cannot understand”, something like that. They outburst, then disciples get scared. They don’t want to ask a question. Seeing this, probably I learned and made it naturally for me. I encourage people to ask a question, because if I don’t know, I am not afraid of telling I don’t know. It is inconclusive – simply you can tell, but there is no answer; inconclusive. What to say? If there is an answer, we will definitely tell, “This is my opinion. This is what it is.”

So, I always try to be soft and try to answer, explain the things. I saw many people making that mistake, not explaining, so not able to give proper explanations. Such people get into conflicts very quickly, they become prejudicial from what I have seen. All these things were not good. So I thought, if I become a guru, I’ll become more understanding, better compassionate. So that habit has come through this body, I think. Though nothing is there in the mind, but generally, by nature I’m like that.

Question:

So, once you’re Self Realized, the character is kind of running on whatever samskaras and vasanas and impressions that have built up and made that personality that way – it just continues like that?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, I might show compassion, but I remain unaffected. I tell, “This is the thing, you do like this one. This is the sadhana you have to achieve.” So, you have to have faith and devotion. If they listen, they will be benefited. If they don’t listen, they will not be benefited. So after telling this, I don’t keep thinking whether they will listen to me or not. I forget about what I have told them. I had to tell, and I told them, and it’s up to them to keep it in the mind and practice accordingly. Then it will be beneficial for them. Then they will win. If they don’t take the teachings, they won’t win, that’s all. Both I remain unaffected.

Question:

Reading a little more of the commentary. “People are very troubled by identifying themselves with the body and its pains. People become happy or unhappy by identifying themselves with body actions, such as ‘I’m the doer’, ‘I have achieved’. Actually as the Self, which is our real existence, we do neither something nor nothing. When we become aware of the Self, we know that we’re not involved in body actions and thus become peaceful. This cannot be practiced by reading books or listening to talks, only by experience of the Self this state of mind comes.”

Shri Babaji:

Yes, I keep telling, you see, just by reading a book you cannot practice. You have to practice meditation so that the mind becomes quiet. Consciousness has shifted from its original Self towards the body, due to coming in touch with the brain. That is how it is spread all over the body, that consciousness, giving anybody themselves as the body. See, there is an earthen pot. Inside there is space. The space has forgotten about itself and started thinking of itself as the earthen pot, earthen pitcher, what it is called. It is something like that. The Atman inside has forgotten about Itself, has started thinking itself as the physical body. Once it has identified with the physical body, everything happening to the body appears to be happening to the self, simply in imagination.

Just like watching a movie, when you have identified yourself into the movie, everything that is happening in the movie appears to be happening to you consciously. Only when you become aware that you are just watching and there is nothing existent, then you are at peace. “Oh God, thank God, nothing is happening. It’s only on the screen, it’s make believe.” If any scene in the movie is panicking, scary, then for a moment, try to remember the moment when that shot would have been filmed. All the directors, cameramen, boys, so many units are there; actors are simply acting and they are filming. Imagine that scenario. Then your mind becomes very light and relieved. “Oh God, this is all it that happened when this scene was being filmed, so this is not real.” Then you become aware of yourself, that you are just watching. Like that about this world also, if you can think, “The divine would have simply imagined about this thing, or I would have imagined, that’s why this is appearing to be so. It will go away, no problem.”

So like that, we meditate, only then the consciousness shifts back to the Self. It goes back to the Self when it gives up preoccupation with thoughts and visions — when it becomes quiet. That’s what precisely you are trying to do in that one hour of meditation when we ask you to “Just watch”. That is what every student must understand. That you are supposed to just watch in meditation, not to think, not to recognize any vision or any thought at all. Even if God comes, don’t recognize in any form. That is what Swami is telling in other language, “Even if God comes and wants to give you so much, refuse. You tell ‘I want God only. I know God, whatever you can give is impermanent, and it will go back to you only. It will not give me any happiness and thus I want You only’.” Like that, you assure yourself, keep thinking and then meditate, then it will smoothly quieten the mind, silences the mind, then the consciousness shifts to the Self, and that’s it. Being there.

Question:

You say in the commentary, “One should not try to practice this by reading. The mind needs to become totally quiet, only then the ability to see God everywhere, in everything, as everything, comes.” 

Shri Babaji:

Just by reading you start mixing the batter for the bread, and now the bread needs to be baked, like that you go on reading, so you are likely to commit mistakes, because your focus is on reading. Your focus is not on doing the things. You have to practice making bread and baking the bread. That’s the sadhana, meditation. Sadhana was the word used by Swamiji, my Guru. “You have to do sadhana”, He used to repeat very much. “Talk less and do more sadhana”. So, more meditation is very important; practical workshop. That’s why we enjoy conducting retreats. When devotees appeal to us that they want to be in the retreat, that helps them to be meditating for five to six times a day, for one-one hour. Then in between, to clarify their doubts, question and answer sessions are also there. That motivates them, that inspires them, “We are on the right path. This is what we need to do.” So thus, when you keep listening to my answers, all participants understand why we ask you just to watch and not to do anything else. So that mentally you become silent.

Question:

Moving on to Verse 4, Chapter 13. “Spiritual seekers who are yet still attached to the body, think of following either action or inaction. Abandoning now both involvement and detachment, I rest truly happy.”

Verse 5. “No good or bad is associated with either ‘I stay or go or sleep’. Whether I stay or go or sleep, I live truly happy.”

Verse 6. “I do not lose anything by rest, giving up thoughts of sad loss or exciting gain, I live happily.”

Verse 7.  “Seeing again that pleasure and pain very constantly in differing circumstances, I have renounced identification with good or evil. I live in true happiness.”

Shri Babaji:

In the commentary also I would have written, when the mind becomes silent, all these things which you went on reading, automatically would have been given up. You don’t have to go into a big list of things: “I would have given this, I would have given that…” Though ancient teachers have used, it is mentally that you have to give up. This happens practically, when you practice meditation. You would have given up everything. When the mind is quiet, that means it would have given up all ideas; ideas of good and bad, ideas of right and wrong, ideas of this and that, all dualities, ideas of existence and non-existence, everything is gone.

Question:

Must transcend thought, basically.

Shri Babaji:

Simply, that’s it.

Question:

Baba, in Your commentary, You say, “Whether you undertake action bodily or not, it is important to renounce by mind and not absorb any imprints or doership. A firm conviction of the impermanence of the world in the mind will give detachment. Detachment is to remain unaffected when things come and go.”

Shri Babaji:

See, bodily, any way of life, any type of action that you undertake will not matter that much for your liberation or for being in the Self with total Supreme Peace. Or if anything is in the mind, you are reborn. So that will be the result. Simply, the body action will not be the reason. Along with the body action, the mind also imagines. If it reverberates in the mind, and the mind also starts repeating the same. Unknown to us, when we do chanting, if the mind can just watch that chanting, then it can become quiet. In other words, if the mind also goes on chanting it imagines further, imagines further, and it doesn’t become silent. Then it gets involved.

I have told, when the brain dies, the mind gets detached. If the mind is holding all desires in the form of thoughts and visions, based on that it assumes next birth. If the things that are in the mind are non-violent, you acquire a better birth, elevated birth. Means you would have inclination since childhood for spirituality. You would obtain such pious parents who would train you into spirituality, talk to you about such things only. Som how rare and how necessary this is. Means, after being born, you cannot plan about your parents or teachers, anything. You had to plan before by acquiring such habits in the mind, then only it happens.

So now, suppose you want total liberation, then you have to get rid of all ideas in the mind, drop everything. Just achieve silence. Don’t bother about the good or bad also of this world. Of that I have told repeatedly, if we call this world very good also, we get involved. We call this world very bad also, we get involved. We tell “Somebody is a very bad person,” we are getting involved mentally. We call “Bhai, this is a very good person,” we are getting involved. Just be quiet in the mind. Don’t make any judgment. There is neither good nor bad there.

In a drama, in a cinema, one person enters, he behaves very badly as a bad guy, because he has been asked to do so by the director. He is the villain, he is taking up the villain’s role. Another comes and slaps him, beats him up, asks him to get out and not misbehave. He becomes the hero. That’s because the director has asked him to do so. So then you just enjoy it. Keep quiet, don’t have to make any judgments. That’s it. Like that, this world also. This will be possible only when you simultaneously, everyday practice meditation. That’s very important. Without that, just by reading or listening to me if you try to practice, you will misfire. You will see God in the elephant. But forget that God is in the elephant rider also. So, that’s important.

Question:

Okay, Baba. I’ll read some from the commentary, “Whether the body moves or stays at one place, sleeps or remains awake, no good or bad happens to the consciousness. Bondage happens only by absorbing imprints, by absorbing in the mind. Giving up any absorption in the mind and becoming quiet in the mind gives Self awareness and Supreme Peace. It’s not by bodily actions that you gain or lose; it’s by absorbing the imprints of habits and giving up all recognizing, analyzing and judgment effects in the mind, keeping quiet. This can be achieved by watching.”

Shri Babaji:

That’s what we were discussing all the time. This has to be practiced by practicing meditation, just watching the silence. Once it is achieved, then everything disappears from the mind. Otherwise, the mind gets involved into the good and bad always. Thus it experiences all the good and bad also.

Question:

In your commentary, You said, “By keenly observing, you can gain understanding that neither pleasure nor pain stay forever. They’re interchangeable. If we depend on the happiness of this world, unhappiness definitely follows. If there is unhappiness, happiness follows. When you meditate, no matter whether evil comes as a thought or good comes as a thought, you do not bother and just watch. Then becoming quiet, you gain Self awareness and Supreme Peace.

Shri Babaji:

That is the mechanism of this universe. The creation, it is always made up of dualities I keep telling in my teachings, talks also, answers also, always. If you get attracted to the happiness of this world, be prepared for the unhappiness of this world also – that will follow, definitely. Always one thing is not going to be there. Some fear comes, one day another day courage comes. One day it is happiness. Another day it is unhappiness. All these things keep coming, so if you rise above these, just keep the mind silent, then retire, then you always have the peace. There is no fear of happiness or unhappiness at all, because your happiness does not depend on anything. That means, mind is happy on its own. It does not depend for its happiness on anything.

When it does not depend on anything, it is independent. So, nobody can disturb the mind’s happiness. If we depend on something… If I depend on this Surface, tomorrow somebody will snatch it, then I become unhappy. “How will I do Zoom now? I cannot do the Zoom, the Surface has gone. My God, what will I do?” I keep scratching my head. We are just happy. If it’s available, we’ll do the Zoom. If the Surface goes away, if this laptop goes, we are sorry we are unable to do the Zoom. So like that, it’s not as easy as we keep talking, we smile. But you practice meditation, this will come to you also one day. You practice meditation, just watching in between eyebrows.

Question:

Baba, talking a little bit about happiness. In the past, You’ve always said Supreme Peace is beyond bliss.  Happiness, you kind of associate with a blissful or pleasant experience, and that’s temporary, and that’s generated in the mind. But Supreme Peace is in the transcendent, that’s permanent and that’s beyond the mind. So, happiness sounds like a step below Supreme Peace.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, you see, if you keenly observe, a blissfulness always happens when you are still in duality. You and you experience ;that is blissfulness. These two things happen, so then that is in duality. That can make you to jump back to this world again, because you are still existing in the world. That individual imagined self is still there, that identity is there, you are unable to forget. Only for that you are enjoying a blissfulness. Whereas when the final merger happens, Self-Realization, the Supreme Peace and Self are not two different things, they are one and same. So thus, that Supreme Peace cannot be enjoyed in duality by remaining different from that Supreme Peace. You are that Supreme Peace. That happens when it [mind] is totally composed and you get totally merged with the Self.

That’s why after experiencing this only, I started talking, “You have to go beyond bliss to achieve Self Realization and Supreme Peace.” Many people, when they get a small glimpse of blissfulness, they start misunderstanding that they have seen God and have obtained the God Realization and start talking all sorts of things. “Now you can dance, you enjoy, you do anything in the world,” that type of thing they keep telling. That is not the thing—Supreme Peace it will not give. You are depending on something still, that’s the blissfulness. As long as you depend on something, it is not the final. You should not depend on anything. You must be That! As you are That, means the Self and you are not different. In the same way, Supreme Peace and you are not different. You don’t depend on anything for a Supreme Peace. You yourself is that Supreme Peace.

Question:

We just have to become aware of it. We have to meditate.

Shri Babaji:

Simply, that’s it. 

Question:

Baba, these talks, we’ve mentioned this before, they’re really helpful for focusing in on what you need to be at peace. What you need to be happy. 

Shri Babaji:

When I’m answering, I would request all participants to pay perfect attention. It is very necessary. Otherwise, sometimes I tell in some context something, then some people misunderstand it to be something else. So, then you lose the essence of the teachings, actually, what we are trying to convey. Born out of the direct experience, it is coming out of me spontaneously. That’s why you have to pay apt attention. That is very much necessary. That’s what is one essence of the Ashtavakra Samhita. Ashtavakra demanded a condition from King Janaka to give him Self Realization. This is one of the major things —your attention must be always on my teaching. If you don’t listen properly, and if you don’t get into it, I’m not responsible, then don’t blame me. Whatever I tell you, just pay attention. At that time don’t keep thinking, don’t try to talk anything, just listen. Just listening means you are just watching. Then you will be benefited. You will understand what I’m trying to convey.

Question:

Pranams Babaji. Thanks for answering our questions. I had a question or just was thinking about something in a certain way. Ramana Maharshi and I believe others have said something similar to this, and it probably depends on your perspective, that all actions of the body are predetermined once it’s comes into existence. Is it sort of like the mind is along for the ride, in a sense, and it’s judging, and it’s taking on doership, and it’s taking on karma as it’s going along the ride of the predetermined actions. So that’s the problem, and you just need to stay silent as it’s going through the ride?

Shri Babaji:

No, no, listen to me carefully. Once again, I will answer your question. Several times we have attended to these things. Do not jump into any conclusion, whether predetermined or just a coincidence. Don’t try to define either way. When it comes to you that you can think and can execute, you can work it out — then try to think and work it out. Like, when you have to think means that also you may not know where the source is coming. But one thing, if you practice more meditation, then your mind is likely to be less confused. When it is less confused, it will be able to take a proper decision, and then you will work it out. Once you get into the work it out, any result that comes, accept it. Accepting is very necessary so that mentally you don’t lose hope, you don’t become disturbed, you don’t lose your concentration. All these things are very important for your mind.

Now, for a definition, either you think it was predetermined so that you don’t lose hope, that is all. A destiny is taught only for the reason that you don’t become disappointed or frustrated. Say there was certain thing you acted upon, now, after years and years, you don’t have to keep regretting that. It is over, finished. Look for the next thing that you have to do — for that simply it is taught you are destined to undergo. But really nobody knows conclusively whether it is predetermined or whether it happened in that moment. This is the truth. Being a yogi, I am in front of all of you today, I’m telling the truth in the name of my guru – there is no conclusive answer. Yesterday also we dealt with the subject, whether it is coincidence or whether it is predetermined — nobody knows. Whatever you tell it appears to be so. Some sages used it as predetermined, so that it gives some comfort to your mind, “Oh, I was destined to undergo. It was not my fault.” When you realize this, you become comforted. Otherwise, you keep regretting, “Did I do some mistake?  Should I have done like this? What should I have done?” All these things. It will be waste of your energy. That thing is already over so do not bother about anything, whether it was predetermined or a coincidence. It just happened and it’s over. Now look for the future.

When you have to think to act upon in the future, try to keep your mind pure and less confused. Don’t worry, whatever you think is good for you, you act upon and then undergo whatever has to come. Don’t worry about it. If it is good or bad, it’s okay, no problem. I initiate people into meditation. After that, I don’t worry whether they will meditate or they will not meditate. I will go mad if I keep wondering like that. I just initiate the job. Like that you also live in this world. Then you exercise the willpower when there is a chance for you to think and execute the things. If you meditate, you will be able to better think and execute the will power, it will be possible, Destiny, predetermination comes afterwards. Got it? 

Question:

Baba, hello. Wow, everything today is like lots of light bulbs going off just everywhere. I’m really receiving the energy of what You are saying in such a dramatic way today, this morning. One of the things I really want to point out, because this was one of the biggest light bulbs that went up, especially in today’s time when so much is going on. I know a lot of people who say, “Why isn’t the guru saying about this in the world and this event in the world and that event? Why doesn’t Baba talk about these things in the world?” And I never thought that, but I hear that a lot. I know how to answer people that ask me this now. When you said, the director is creating the drama and producing the characters, both good and evil that play the roles of the drama. What you’re really saying is that the yogi knows that this world is a divine drama, and all that we’re living in right now, all of this stuff that is bombarding us, these characters, these dark characters, and all of this is part of this divine drama. I feel as though I’m sitting here; I don’t know the end of this drama. I don’t know where this drama is going, just like in a play, I know what the first scene is. I don’t know what’s going to come. I thought, this is the way I’m going to start approaching this.

Shri Babaji:

 The One who has created this drama will take care of the end also — the Supreme Consciousness. We don’t have to bother. You work as a good person. If some friend comes, try to influence in the right way so that there is no conflict. Let all of us live in peace and happiness. Let us love and honor each other. If that person doesn’t like, he will go away. If he likes, he will become your friend. That’s it, and you live happily and in peace. 

Question:

Yes, thank you so much, Baba.

Question:

Pranam Baba. My question is related to the previous chapter 12, verse 7, “Thinking on That which is beyond thought, is still thinking. Renouncing all thought, I now live in the Self.” For a few days I’m thinking about praying, how to pray to God or to the Divine. That sentence kind of resumed my doubt. If the Divine is not being affected by anything that is happening, how does prayer relate to That? And as it says, it is still thinking. So, I wouldn’t really be getting closer to the Self, because even when I pray, I’m be going away from the Self and not closer to the Self. So, what is the idea of prayer?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, I got it, what you are trying to say. Two things. You pray. When you pray, if you sincerely pray, applying your mind, be mindful, then your mind can get connected to Divinity. Okay, Divine’s compassion, grace automatically descends. Just by that grace descending, God will not be affected. The Divine will never be affected because He will not keep thinking, “Somebody is praying, I have to grace upon”. He won’t think like that one. Somebody prays, if the mind touches the Divine, the grace automatically flows. That is why prayers, faith, all these things are taught. And along with that, you must meditate also to quieten your mind. So now, prayer enables you to be in touch in your imagination with the Divine. Meditation gradually will elevate you to be in touch with the Divine beyond imagination.

So, if at all there has to be some imagination, let it be imagining the Divine and pray. So, prayers are not wrong. Don’t worry. You pray to God whenever you need something — in imagination that will connect you to the Divine. You meditate, it will take you beyond imagination and connect you to the Divine. Both can be equally effective. You go on doing this. That’s all that’s needed.

Question:

Thank you very much, Baba. Pranam Baba.

Question:

Baba, there’s one question in the chat, can you take that? 

Shri Babaji:

Okay, yeah, I’ll take, Okay.

Question:

The story of Shikhidvaja and Chudala. You know this story, Baba?

Shri Babaji:

Shikhidvaja, I think.

Question:

Yes, and Chudala. The King went through all kinds of ascetic practices, renounced the kingdom and lived in a forest, eating roots, etc. Then enlightened Queen Chudala gave him the teaching that this was not needed; he could get enlightenment while living in a kingdom as well. Is this true? First question. Second question…

Shri Babaji:

I will answer this question, and then we’ll go to the next one. The king went to forest. He was meditating. He had given up the kingdom also, but one thing he carried was his mind. In his mind he was still the king. He still maintained that ego. So that’s why he could not get complete Self Realization. It was not coming. Some dissatisfaction was there for him. That’s when Chudala, his wife – his wife was a householder, she used to work, but she had achieved that Self Realization by acceptance. Her consciousness had given up all ideas and had become quiet. So, she knew the Truth.

She knew the king was still holding the ego. That is the problem. That is when she advises him — “This thing could come at home also, all that you needed was to give up your ego. You went there [to the forest]; still you maintained the ego that you are a king, that’s why it is delaying. She gives that teaching to him. Once he realizes that thing, then the king gives up his attachment that he is a king. He is not a king anymore. That’s what I keep telling devotees. Remember Swamiji used to tell, “Don’t come to me as an army officer, don’t come to me as a businessman, don’t come to me as a royal person, just come to me as a devotee. Then you will learn. If you come with that ego you will not learn.” All of you sitting, 150 people, 100 people in the Zoom class, you need to be students. Accept me as a master, then you will learn. If you think, “Oh, this somebody, old man is talking, I know much better than him, I have read Yoga Vasistha,” then you will not learn anything. So, that is important. That’s what Chudala tried to tell him. So next question?

Question:

Second question. Some sages got freed directly with the aid of Self knowledge and directly destroyed all conditioning just with awareness. Is Self Realization possible just with Self knowledge and awareness, without meditation practice for some rare seekers?

Shri Babaji:

Self knowledge means… many people might misunderstand that by reading the book, knowledge comes. That is not the thing. Here, important; by giving up all ideas of the mind. That’s also not easy. The mind has gone out of control since time immemorial. Overnight, simply by sitting on a boulder or a treetop, you cannot give up the mind like that. Like some gurus start claiming, “I got enlightened like this in three days.” It doesn’t happen like that. They don’t know what enlightenment is.

A meditation means when you give up everything of the mind. That is what the meditation is. Meditation means you pay attention to, you gain awareness of the Self. That is what meditation means. Meditation doesn’t mean you have to meditate upon something that is different at a distance. You just become aware of your Self. Anywhere, anytime that you are able to give up all ideas of the mind, then you become Self Realized. Try, if you can give up. Be sincere to yourself, don’t simply claim. If you can give up all ideas, you will gain automatically. That’s yours. Otherwise meditate.

Question:

Babaji, I was just reading Gita today, and in Chapter Four of Karm Yog, it is mentioned as a path of purification. But like You are saying, just by doing our duties and working, the mind is still not free. It’s still carrying. Even though we do our daily duties without attachment, the mind still holds on to some kind of expectations, so the sadhana is important in its own way.

Shri Babaji:

Yes, that expectation must not be there – acceptance. Without expecting anything when you do that karma, that is the selfless service. If the mind is expecting something… don’t expect either the criticism or the appreciation. Even if nobody appreciates, you just do the thing for sake of doing the thing. Then only it is a selfless service. When acceptance comes only the mind recedes and becomes quiet. In whatever way, important thing you need to understand is the mind has to become quiet, then only it gets absorbed into the Self. So, if you take care of this, then the Karma Yoga happens. That’s what Sri Krishna tried to explain. Simply by doing a karma [action], a yoga will not happen. Yoga will happen when you give up attachment to the fruits of the karma.

Question:

So Babaji, how do we give up the attachment? Sadhana I think would would help?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, do it as if you are doing it as a duty. Means your boss has asked you to do the duty. That boss is God. He has asked you to do it –  without thinking “Why I should be doing this, what is going to happen through this?”, both things do not bother and just do it, then your mind can become quiet. That’s what I did. Twenty years of my service at the Lotus Feet of the Master, whatever He wanted me to do in the Ashram; for outsiders it appeared to be odd, looking after the children of some rich devotees, bringing them from school, feeding them, playing with them, taking back to the school, buying a cinema ticket for them. Whatever it was I went on doing. I never thought why I should be doing. “Let this service reach my Master’s Lotus Feet”. So thus, my mind receded, it accepted and it became quiet. So, everything became a meditation for me eventually. So like that, if you also try to do it, then the Karma Yoga will be successful. 

End of Session