0:16 Clarification on the meditation technique
  2:52 To know the truth of who we are do we have to stop thinking?
  4:27 Is it possible to have an uncaused happiness?
  9:35 Do we need body and mind to discover the Self?
11:09 Do we need the body any longer when we realize the Self?
14:14 Relative knowledge and pure knowledge
15:48 What happens when you die before discovering the Self?
20:47 Difference between nirvikalpa, asamprajnata and sarvikalpa samadhi
24:16 The concept of god: if there is no personal god then who responds to our prayers?
28:25 What is the right way to pray to god?
30:50 What happens at the moment of awakening when one receives shakti pat?
34:20 Does watching need to stop outside of meditation?

Thus Spake Babaji, online Q&A #87
Recorded on 5 December 2021 with US participants.

Clarification on the meditation technique

Question:

 First, just a point of clarification on the meditation instruction. You say, “Concentrate your mind and sight in between the eyebrows, focus your attention there, and just watch without thinking.” Now, last meeting, you made a comment which I thought was really beneficial. You said, “First focus your attention, concentrate your mind and sight between the eyebrows, then watch.” And I know that as you practice more and more and your mind is more steady, watching and a focused attention are synonymous, they’re more or less the same thing. But sometimes your mind is not very focused, it’s kind of scattered. And so, if you start to just watch before you’ve kind of brought your awareness to a point, then the meditation is not as it may not be as effective. So, that thing of concentrating your mind and sight between the eyebrows first and then watching. It’s a subtle thing, but would you comment on that?

Babaji:

Yeah, so that’s why we try to use it first. Like, “Gently close your eyes”, then we tell “Concentrate your mind and sight in between eyebrows.” So, that is one sentence, that is one job. Next comes, “Just keep watching there by focusing the attention.” So, the watching and focusing the attention both are same. So, you just watch there and also you focus your attention and just keep watching there. So, when you focus your attention, all you have to do is just remain watching. When you are watching, you are not thinking. That you must remember, that’s the third job. So, you remain watching means don’t keep thinking, stop thinking. So, that will happen automatically when you achieve total watching.

To know the truth of who we are do we have to stop thinking?

Same Questioner:

Thank you, Baba. So, to know the truth of who we are, we have to stop thinking. Is that correct?

Babaji:

Yes, because observing only can bring in the awareness. As long as the mind is thinking, it can give only what it imagines, but not the truth. So, as long as it is imagining, it is unable to become aware of the truth of its existence also. So, that’s why first the silence of the mind needs to be achieved. Then the next step is automatic because mind is made up of consciousness and energy. The consciousness needs to be applied. For that, mind needs to become quiet because just now, consciousness has been applied to its imaginations, but not to itself. So, that’s why it is preoccupied with imaginations and is unaware of itself. Whereas it itself is that truth that we are looking for, that everybody is looking for. It is the truth of Supreme Peace, it is the truth of your own existence, and it is the truth of you.

Is it possible to have an uncaused happiness?

Same Questioner:

Yeah, Baba, I’d like you to talk more about that kind of uncaused happiness in peace. Most people, we’re all looking for peace and happiness, security, but You’ve said that we can’t find it in the mind, anything in the mind, no event, no experience, because all those things are temporary, and that in fact the Self is the state of Supreme Peace. It’s there, we are that, but we’re not paying attention to it. So, this idea of having peace uncaused, that means without any object, without doing anything, without having an event, without purchasing a new around the world tour, that we can be happy in of ourself, without anything extraneous to ourself.

Babaji:

Yeah, in this, one important point you all need to pay attention and notice. When you depend on something other than you for your happiness, that something is not always guaranteed except you. Because you as the Self is the only guaranteed eternal existence which does not need anything, which need not depend on anything for its happiness. So, when you depend on something which itself is impermanent, so all the time, happiness cannot be guaranteed. Any time that can go away. As I have told previously, the entire universe is impermanent, including your own physical body. If you are just now thinking you are the physical body, that physical body is impermanent; after some time this will all go away. It’s inevitable. It has to happen.

So, thus, if you depend for your happiness on any of this, then after some time, you are going to lose. Before losing also an anxiousness might occur; “What if we lose this?” So that insecurity always gives rise to further cravings and makes you not to experience the real peace that you are. So, you can have the peace really and permanently, like my definition of twenty four hours, twelve months, all the time in one, no fluctuation. That can happen only when you depend on a permanent entity which is always there, eternal, and also it must be independent. It doesn’t need anything for its existence or for its happiness, for its anything. So, only such a thing can give you a permanent peace and happiness.

Also, another point, you obtain peace only when your mind is peaceful. If your mind itself is not peaceful, you cannot obtain peace. It is always into craving, and insecurity, unknown fear, anxious about the future, or brooding about the past. So, thus it is seldom into the presence. This presence is the status of the real Self that you are. It is always in the presence, it doesn’t go into either past or present, it doesn’t happen. See, always the moment, the time, if you try to understand the time, time is actually neither future nor past, it is the present. Every moment is present, evidentially, to your experience, only the present can be the truth. Future can only be an imagination and the past can only be a memory of imagination. And only the present is the real truth that is in front of you. Every moment. This moment, next moment is also present, next moment is also present. So, that present eternal only can give you happiness because that very nature is happiness. That happiness is there because it doesn’t need anything. It never feels any insecurity at all, all the time it is at peace.

Do we need body and mind to discover the Self?

Same Questioner:

So, Baba, we have to have a body, mind in order to discover the Self, even though our true existence is beyond time and space, beyond mind and concept?

Babaji:

Yes, like sometimes, say, permanently when you have peace, you won’t know the value of that peace. To understand the value of that peace, you have to lose that peace for a while and then strive for that peace and regain that one. Now, all those people who are suffering understand the value of peace, all those people who are struggling to have some money to sustain their livelihood, life, they all know the value of the money. So, when you need it, when you work hard for that, then you understand the value. Independence is also like that. So, that’s how you need to lose that peace for a while, then understand the need of peace and how valuable is that peace, why you must not lose that peace. So, that’s why the Self-Realization is recommended; so you must not lose that peace and happiness, you must not lose that existence, eternal existence right. Like peace is your existence right.

Do we need the body any longer when we realize the Self?

Same Questioner:

And so, once you’ve realized the Self, really realized the Self, then you no longer need the body. Will it know that it exists?

Babaji:

Yeah. So, on your own, you won’t need the body for yourself anymore because you are at peace, and you have become aware of that truth as yourself. However, either you can call it by a routine of a destiny or a divine ordainment, that in the consciousness in other bodies which has been separated from the ultimate truth due to its imagination and have temporarily forgotten themselves, it is miserable in this world. It wants that peace, it is struggling. So, to give them proper guidance, to create an awareness, what one needs to do to achieve that peace, that divinity. So, that’s where that Self-Realized person becomes a Master in that awareness. How he could achieve – he is able to tell those points. So, thus only the Self-Realized Master can give you the right guidance in its right sense, precisely can tell, “This is what you have to do to achieve Self-Realization”. And do not try to imagine what that truth is because you will end up imagining. So, the Master tells, “Wait, I’m helping you to become space! Don’t unnecessarily try to measure the space, you will end up nowhere. So, just you have to become space.” See, this truth, people won’t understand easily. Even in science also, with a separate entity only we try to know the truth of things, then we end up in a limited way. So, that’s why I have told, in other fields, either an immediate cause or a nearest cause has been explained, but the root cause has not been explained. The root cause can never be explained, because to know the root cause you have to become that root cause itself. So, just like to know what the space is, you have to become space.  Nothing else can know what the space is, because all pervadedness, anything else cannot travel throughout the length and breadth of space which has no beginning and no end.

Relative knowledge and pure knowledge

Same Questioner:

So, how does relative knowledge and pure knowledge relate to that, Baba? You know, relative knowledge, like I know about something, time and events. But then there’s a pure knowledge where it’s just knowingness itself with no objects.

Babaji:

They are all temporary and limited. A real yogi becomes quiet. The actual truth, he simply gives a clue how to go there, how to achieve that, how to obtain that awareness, what you are supposed to do. Like, we tell, first you have to get rid of all your own imaginations that is in your mind, then you will realize what you are. So, the more I try to explain anything about the truth, I have to use a word that is to be imagined. So, I try to use the nearest imagination only, more than that, that cannot be explained, impossible. You have to become that. You have to be aware, then you will know what it is. That’s why our Guru said, when you start meditation, do not try to imagine what the ultimate truth is, what the divine is. Just start and keep going. You will know that only when you become that.

What happens when you die before discovering the Self?

Same Questioner:

So, Baba, when you’re on the path, you know, practicing Sadhana and trying to discover yourself and the body dies, the mind goes away. What happens then if you die before you discover the Self?

Babaji:

So the mind is into the habit of spinning and imagining, visualizing. So, in one body, in that visualizing effect it acquires certain habits, how to visualize, in what way it is going to spin, acquires habits. Based on that, when one body dies, means precisely to talk the brain stops functioning. When the brain stops functioning, you lose consciousness of this world, whatever you had imagined earlier. So, you lose the consciousness of your own body and you lose consciousness of this world. That’s what death means actually. That consciousness loses consciousness of this world, surroundings and the body. But it is holding on to the habits of whatever it has acquired throughout that life and the previous lives. So, they form what is known as intensity of thought, intense thoughts – wanting; if any desire is there, anything to be achieved. It becomes so restless and spins, spins. Based on that, it assumes next birth, a next world, it gets to see the scene other than its real Self. So, thus it gets involved into one more birth. So, like that, birth after birth, death after death keep happening, keep happening until you don’t stop your mind’s spinning. The spinning of the mind can be stopped once you get rid of all imaginations. And in that process, you are also getting rid of your habits to imagine. You have become habitual to imagine. To imagine is a quality you possess. That’s good – if necessary anytime you can use. But you should not become habitual that you are unable to stop yourself. Then you are into trouble.

Anywhere, anything, whether you are eating an ice cream or flying in the air or driving a car or going anywhere, you must know where to stop, how to land also. When you take off, you should know how to land. Otherwise you are into trouble. So, that’s what happens in this world. Everybody is suffering or into trouble, don’t know what to do, immaturity in actions. And that’s so troublesome. People want that happiness, but are unable to find that. They are ready to give money, they are ready to get fooled, they are ready to do anything. If anybody can instantly give, but that doesn’t happen. Simply they have to stop. That’s why in the story of Buddha, it comes; when He was walking in the jungle, the dacoit, the robber, he is known as the Angulimala. Anguli means, he had the habit of whomever he killed, he used to cut their fingers and make a garland of those fingers and he used to wear it. So, he had become known as Angulimala. Anguli means fingers, the mala is garland, the finger garland robber. So, he gets to see Buddha from a distant and he shouts, “Stop!” Then Buddha says, “I stopped long ago, when are you going to stop?” And he is puzzled and somewhat impressed; “Why is this man telling? He doesn’t seem to be afraid of me at all.” And he comes near and he is able to feel the vibrations and that peace glow in Buddha’s face and eventually surrenders to Him, becomes His disciple and learns to meditate and achieves the truth to himself also. That is the story of the finger garland robber. So, that’s what, means you have to stop.

Same Questioner:

Ran out of questions Baba.

Babaji:

That’s what I hinted. I stopped long ago – when are you going to stop? [laughs]

Difference between nirvikalpa, asamprajnata and savikalpa samadhi

Question:

Pranam Babaji.

Babaji:

My blessings.

Same Questioner:

Yesterday, you talked about nirvikalpa samadhi as enlightenment and yoga sutra does not use that term. It uses the term asamprajnata samadhi. Is that the same as nirvikalpa samadhi ?

Babaji:

Yes, there is no consciousness of anything. Just the Self exists. That is the asamprajnata – that samadhi that you mentioned, that’s what the word means. That is the nirvikalpa samadhi. It is the same.

Same Questioner:

Okay, so there is savikalpa samadhi which is called samprajnatha samadhi and there is nirvikalpa samadhi which is asamprajnatha samadhi, and they’re the same thing?

Babaji:

Yes, exactly. Savikalpa; so, your mind has achieved the stillness, total stillness, but it is standing on some object, some anchor. So, it is not yet nirvikalpa. That is what. Same.

Same Questioner:

Could you explain a little bit more about what you mean by standing on some object? Does that mean that you need to meditate to get there? Or what does it mean to be savikalpa?

Babaji:

Say, for example, you have a habit to chant a mantra. So gradually, that is the japa, you know? So gradually, your mind totally becomes concentrated on that mantra. So you achieve that stillness of the mind on that mantra, but you are unable to give up that mantra. You are holding on to that. So till then, that is the savikalpa samadhi. This comes in the story, a very good example – the best is Ramakrishna Paramahansa’s. You all would have read that, no? So when He was about to be introduced to nirvikalpa samadhi by Totapuri, He asked Him to concentrate here, giving up all imaginations and just keep watching there. But Ramakrishna opens His eyes after a while and tells, “I am able to bring my mind here, withdrawing from all sensory organs, but Mother Kali is standing there.” And the story tells that Totapuri became annoyed and took a piece of glass and pierced it here. “How come you are unable to drive her away? The mother Kali is dead, I have killed her. She is no more existing.” Seems he cut the wooden idol of mother Kali with a sword and said, “Now Mother Kali is dead, she no more exists.” Then He went into such nirvikalpa samadhi. Several days He was in that samadhi. So that was a beautiful example. He simply became That.

Same Questioner:

Thank you. So, savikalpa samadhi means it’s not permanent, you need some way to get there. You have to practice something to get there. Is that correct?

Babaji:

Yes.

Same Questioner:

Okay, thank you Baba.

Question:

Baba, also in savikalpa isn’t the ‘I’ still there, whereas in nirvikalpa there’s no ‘I’?

Babaji:

Yeah, the duality is still there. ‘I’ and the mantra, ‘I’ am standing on that mantra. That’s what I meant.

The concept of god: if there is no personal god then who responds to our prayers?

Question:

Baba, I have a confusion about the concept of God. Like, it is recommended to people by masters that talk to God, communicate with God and do prayer. Even when somebody, say me, I might pray to God even for something and we feel that sometimes there is a direct response. But in the meantime, we know that when the individual becomes Realized, He sees there is no me and God, there is no me and there is no such thing and concept of God either. Basically, there is no personal God out there beyond the creation. But somebody is responding. Who is that? Is it like a perfect master, a yogi, somewhere in the planet earth or other planet, it’s another personality in the universe somewhere? Who is responding? Who are we communicating to?

Babaji:

Pay attention what I’m going to say now. Precisely, it is you who is responding to you. This is what is happening. You only forgot about yourself. You imagined yourself as a small droplet like a small entity of the physical body, a personality. And as long as your imagination is stuck in this body as an individual personality, your own ultimate truth, your actual truth is God to you. Why this was recognized as God? Just like in your mind, all characters, stories, everything is built up by your mind. That mind is God to all the characters, objects that is in your mind. Because it is the mind which has created those objects, whenever the mind wants, it can simply withdraw them and just become pure consciousness. The same concept is with God and this universe. That’s why God is all pervaded. That is why our Gurus said all religions as equal and honorable. There is no difference in fact. Truth is one. You call it in any name, in any form or formlessness, anything. It’s up to your belief or your wanting to know. That’s what. God is not a personality who is sitting in the space, who is responding. There is no such thing. It is your own consciousness which responds to you. That’s why the prayer is taught – while praying if your mind can become best concentrated with that prayer, then technically that mind goes introvert to itself. Consciously it touches itself. Then the grace automatically flows. That’s how the response comes to you from your real Self. So now the great masters taught, “You need to become aware of your real Self”. As long as there is a devotee, there is a God. But when that Realization happens, there is neither a devotee nor a God is there. One single Self that exists. That so many people have explained, name, or tried not to name in so many ways. It is all the one truth. That’s what the truth is. This can be experienced only when you get rid of all your imaginations that is in your mind. Then your mind merges with that truth and becomes aware of that truth about which you are asking a question of what is God?

What is the right way to pray to God?

Same Questioner:

So, as long as you are not Realized, so we know just as an idea that it is ultimate Self that we are praying to and getting response. But we are not Realized yet. So what is the best way to do this communication, talking, or praying, or whatever? Because if I say, “Oh God” with whatever name, means I’m separating myself while as an idea at least I know there is no such thing as me and God.  So what is the right way of prayer and talking and communication?

Babaji:

The right way to communicate is through your mind. God understands only the language of mind. No other language if the mind is not concentrated will be effective to communicate with God. This is one important thing. That’s why when you pray, you have to apply your mind. In your mind, full concentrated, you have to pray. Well, billions of people are there, people may pray for small chocolates, small job transfers, some money, some this, that. But the highest prayer that is taught, “Give me total liberation, O Lord, give me permanent peace and give me your lotus feet, may I merge with you so that I don’t have to be reborn and become miserable in this world again.” That is the highest prayer, and then surrendering. “O Lord, may it happen as per your wishes, but please inspire my wisdom that I shall not lose communication with you. May I remain at your lotus feet.” So these are the highest prayers that were taught and then practice meditation. Finally meditation is the real surrender. Final merger with the divinity.

What happens at the moment of awakening when one receives shakti pat?

Question:

Good morning, Baba. My question is, can you please explain what happens at the moment of awakening of receiving Shakti Pat? The awakening of the Kundalini.

Babaji:

So, for the Kundalini, nobody can simply awaken you through a Shakti Pat. It’s only a temporary thing. Even if at all it tries to rise, it will fall down. Before that the mind needs to be controlled. It must be gathered because Kundalini is simply another portion of the mind. Same substance that the mind is made up of consciousness and energy, Kundalini is also made up of consciousness and energy. But compared to mind, Kundalini is less powerful which is spread in a smaller space called physical body. That’s what known as coiled energy is Kundalini. To lift this Kundalini, you have to bring the mind concentrated and withdraw from the imagination of this world. So then that mind lifts the Kundalini also upwards. Then they both become one mass of existence, gets delinked from the brain and then the seeker feels as if he is here (Babaji showing top of the head). When the person who is meditating or doing tapas, it appears to him. That means now that consciousness is totally blossomed, purified. It’s ready to go to samadhi. That is why the name of sahasrara kamala has been used, means ‘thousand petals lotus’. There is no lotus here. Symbolically the master said, “If the consciousness comes here, that means it is blossomed like a thousand petals lotus. It is ready to go to samadhi.” After that, it loses location of the body or surroundings, becomes unconscious, gains slowly awareness of itself and goes into samadhi. This is what happens.

Same Questioner:

When I met my Guru in 1981, it felt like my heart exploded open and I felt great ecstasy and my whole life changed. So, is that not the awakening or are we talking about the same thing but using different terms? I thought you had to have a Guru to have an awakening.

Babaji:

I understand what you are telling. That’s not the total awakening. It’s a glimpse of the truth. So that glimpse would have given you enormous bliss and changed the life; “There is some amazing thing”. Then you have to continue the sadhana of meditating so that the mind becomes concentrated, then it lifts the Kundalini upwards totally, controls it, merges they both, then the samadhi has to happen. So further you have to do more sadhana so that you can obtain the Guru’s grace and eventual Self-Realization.

Same Questioner:

Okay. Thank you so much.

Does watching need to stop outside of meditation?

Question:

Namaste Babaji. So my question, at the end of Jangama Dhyana we stop concentrating our mind and sight between the eyebrows. But does watching really need to stop? Because watching, it seems to me, is just awareness of our existence. So that the watching is also an integral part of our day outside of the meditation period, is that true?

Babaji:

You pay attention to certain things. First thing, you all know, along with the sensory organ, mind’s application also needs to be there to actually be able to see. Like when I am talking, you are seeing me. But suddenly if your mind runs somewhere else, even though you are seeing in the eyes, you are not seeing actually anything. That’s what will automatically happen. When you have been asked to watch in between eyebrows, that is through the eyes, the first thing you do. In the beginning it will be the mind which is watching through the eyes, but eventually, gradually as you simply go on watching, it is withdrawn from all imaginations; all thoughts and visions dissolve. When this happens, mind turns introvert, it is becoming pure consciousness. At that time, let the eyes be there itself, you don’t have to bother about it, to watch or not to watch. Because when the mind turns introvert, it won’t watch anything through the eyes anymore. When it totally turns introvert, it becomes aware of itself. So that is how it loses consciousness of the surroundings and the body because it is withdrawing itself from the clutches of the sensory organs also. It is becoming totally independent, and that is how the samadhi is achieved. It will happen. The rest is happening automatically. Your job is to bring all the mind in between eyebrows, keep watching until all the imagination totally gets dissolved. Then the rest of the things happen automatically. Just like you just have to apply the gear that you have to drive and press the accelerator. The rest will happen automatically, the vehicle moving. Until then, you need to put in an effort. So that is what is needed.

Same Questioner:

What role does watching have outside of the meditation time period when we are in other activities?

Babaji:

So you can apply your mind thoroughly to do anything. That achievement can be there in the world. Whatever job you have to do, you can have the best concentrated mind. When that best concentrated mind applies the brain, it utilizes the brain to the maximum extent possible. That’s how a person can become a genius. When you want to be in this world, when you want to work also, it can be very helpful.

Question:

But this role of watching, isn’t it really just awareness of our existence? Even though there may be a cloud there because we are engaged in activity, but it’s awareness of our existence which is always there at all times?

Babaji:

In fact, this watching is to achieve the awareness that is always there. Got it? So just until then, mind is watching what it is imagining. So this watching helps you to gain that awareness of that Self which is watching.

End of Session