0:00 Babaji’s introduction
1:10 How are we connected to our ancestors?
4:56 How to avoid dwelling on the past outside of meditation
6:52 Visualisation
7:48 Is God making this pandemic for a reason?
9:17 How does chanting purify the mind?
11:34 When to resist and when to accept
15:13 Ajna chakra
16:11 Nirvana Shatakam
17:17 How to be creative while living in the present
19:46 Challenges to sit for meditation
22:42 How to practice bhakti yoga
24:37 Focus and surrender in meditation
26:18 Inner Guru
27:09 The ego
32:20 “I am” consciousness and Parabrahman
33:59 Who am I at this stage?
36:44 Guidance from the real Self
38:08 The ultimate Truth
40:25 Closing words from Babaji

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 16

Recorded: 17 January 2021 with US participants

Start of short discourse

   Babaji Commences:

   Next Sunday 24th January, a great auspicious day for us devotees of Shivabalayogi. It is His 86^th birthday celebrations. Though He is always with us, He is everywhere, He is in our hearts, but the physical body that we got to see. Every time I sit here, next on his dais He would sit there. That reminds those beautiful days, beautiful moments, wonderful moments.

Short post meditation discourse

   Well, Agastya, now we can take questions.

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:  Baba I’m so confused about ancestors. I really don’t want any part of them. And I know in every life we choose. We choose? I don’t know, they choose? We have different families and with different ancestors. Are we here more or less to clean out the ancestral pool? I heard that that we have to help our ancestors seven generations back and I really don’t want to do that.

Babaji Maharaj:  You don’t have to worry. You don’t have to help anybody. Everybody will have to help themselves. The ancestors who have passed away from this world, they no more remember you as their descendant because once the body has gone, all relationships, everything is forgotten with the death of the brain. The mind would simply carry on the habits in a symptomatic way that will take them either towards the Divinity or belittling themselves. So that’s why we always advise – our Guru is to say, “When the body is available on this earth, when you are here, this is once in a life cycle opportunity for you to know your real Self, for you to know your connection with the Divinity.”  That is important. You can put an effort, you can achieve. So you have to bother for that Self-Realization. As again and again we try to remind – Krishna says, “Arjuna before death shall claim thee, go to the knowers of such truth, sitting at their lotus feet, seeking their permission, put such intelligent questions which can bring out such intelligent answers regarding the Self that you are that soul eternal. So become aware of that by adopting such methods.”   So this is the most prioritized thing that we all need to adopt, because once this body goes, you will also forget what you were in this life. Just like you don’t remember anything of your previous lives, about any ancestors, about any relationships, about the descendants of so many times that you would have dropped your physical body and got into the next incarnation. So what descendants that you would remember? The same way any ancestors, they have gone. We pay tribute to those people who have passed away, remembering their good qualities, their noble characteristics, and seek their blessings, and pray for them that they also travel towards the Divinity; as soon as possible they are able to rest peacefully in the Self. So that’s what the significance of paying tributes. More than that you don’t have to worry – they will help themselves. God will help them. You just pray to God. So when you are in this world you try to help anybody. They need not have to be your ancestors, your blood relations. Every human being, any creature that you can help is worthwhile

Question:  Baba my mind tends to have a tendency to go back and dwell on the past at times. Going through maybe mistakes I’ve made, errors, wrongs, and it brings up sometimes feelings of pain, guilt, regret, and I know meditation is very helpful, but I was wondering when my eyes are open, what You would suggest to help with that?

Babaji Maharaj:  When you have to think, you think positively. These points – past is over!  Suppose, you had committed some mistakes. If you keep worrying about them or feeling guilty, you are wasting more time, unnecessarily. So, you just have to learn lessons so that you don’t repeat such mistakes. That is important. You have the future. Whatever time is left for you when this physical body is available, you have to utilize every moment. See that you are able to quieten your mind and become aware of your real Self instead of giving rise to more imaginations, and then in which way that you can be helpful to somebody in this world. So these two things are very important and significant. So think like that positively. So there is no point for me to keep worrying; let me learn so that I don’t commit any such mistakes again. Like that you keep going and keep meditating. All such times try to remember the Divinity if at all you have to think anything.

Same questioner:  Thank you Baba.

Question:  My question is about visualization. So say if we set out to accomplish a goal, we have the determination to accomplish this goal, and the right attitude. Is visualization a tool that we can use to help us to see ourselves accomplishing this or is that something that leads to fantasy?

Babaji Maharaj:  Yeah, when you want to visualize, visualize that you want to become aware of your real Self. More than that, do not try to visualize what that Self is, then you might end up simply imagining wrong things about the Self. So you just visualize you want to have that Self-Realization, and then get into meditation to realize that Self. So, these two things are important.

Same questioner: Very good, thank You so much.

Question:  Babaji, Ray’s question is “Is God making this pandemic for a reason? He also says it’s good to see You. Love and blessings.”

Babaji Maharaj: The very creation of this world, this universe, whatever has been created, graciously God has made it impermanent. So, that we can go back to the Divinity. And this pandemic, we don’t know conclusively whether this is manmade or God made, or who has made, or was this in the nature. Whatever it is we have to face the challenge and try to see how best we can help others, we can help ourselves, take precautions, be careful so that we don’t get into this pandemic involvement. If possible we need to help others and give courage to others, learn to face. Let if God has done this, He will take care of the things then. So just now we shall not bother whether God did or we did or nature did, whoever did it. We just have to get rid of it as soon as possible so that we all remain healthy and we are able to meditate and know the real Self. So, this is my opinion.

Question:  Pranam Baba, my humble Pranams. My question is – could You talk a little bit about what the role of chanting, for example chanting the puranic texts like Devi Mahatmyam or some Vedic chantings like the suktams, Rudram. What does that actually do to the mind and how does purification happen with that, because ultimately I feel, well, meditation is the ultimate,  that’s where I want to be. But I also feel very attracted to chanting and I seem to get sucked into chanting, for example the Devi Mahatmyam, so could You please talk a little bit about that Babaji?

Babaji Maharaj:  It’s okay to chant any of the Divinity, Divine’s chants which appeal to you when you get attracted to them. So, here what we need to understand is – I have told before also, due to imagination our minds have gone out of control. Using the imagination we have to bring it back to ourselves. When we use the imagination we need to use the highest imagination possible. That’s what Devi Mahatmyam means; the Divinity in the form of Divine Mother. So, then she becomes so dearer to us. All our bhava we pour on Her, at Her lotus feet. So, thus, our imagination brings the mind and makes it single pointed. So, that will be so helpful in your meditation also. So you can continue chanting. That is always powerful. As long as you are able to apply the mind, that is important. It has appealed to you and she can draw all your emotions to Herself. So then you get sucked into her, then you win.

Same questioner: Thank You Babaji.

Question:  Thank You Babaji. I offer You my highest respects and thank You for Your blessings and benediction. Babaji as one on the spiritual path, and as a child I was always taught speak no evil, see no evil, do no evil, and even today we are praying for world peace and forgiveness and blessings. But as an academic in the classroom, I do have to deal with the realities like what happened on the 6^th of January in the US, and the violence and the brutal mob that occurred. And there is this dilemma – While we say forgive and be peaceful, but we also have to accept that the truth is truth. Sixty courts in the country said that the elections were legal; there was no fraud in the US elections. And then at the same time I tell my students to pray, and pray for world peace as we do. But there is the reality that we have to speak truth to power and we have to do things to bring about a more peaceful order, good governance, rule of law, and also to some extent hold our political leaders whom we have elected to be there for the benefit and goodness of people. I don’t say I’m torn between the two – my path is clear. But at the same time I do not want to transgress as a spiritual seeker by saying yes, we have to resist or we have to stand up for what is correct.

Babaji Maharaj:  Yeah, you are very true. A spirituality or nobility doesn’t mean that we simply accept every happening, whether it’s evil, good, bad, anything. If we consider a certain thing is bad for a larger cause, of a country, of the world, of a society, we need to resist at least politely. If not, we go into a violence but politely and firmly, we can always protest, resist, and request that such a thing must not happen, it is a wrong thing. So, when a government is elected legally by the people of that particular country, so that needs to be given way for such a transition. It’s important and the system is there, when it is working so well. So for that as that country people, you can always raise a voice to resist and to protest if necessary and say that this is wrong, it shouldn’t have happened like that; at least let us avoid in future any such happening. We must find some way that such a thing is not at all allowed to happen.

Same questioner: Babaji, very grateful to You, always.

Babaji: Welcome.

Question:  Baba, Mike has a question. He says, can we consider the ajna chakra the seat of the Sat Guru, Self in Shiva?

Babaji Maharaj:  Ah, you can consider because the seat of Sat Guru is all pervaded, and when you are practicing meditation, trying to focus your attention of mind and sight on the ajna chakra, you can consider that as the seat of the Guru.

Same questioner:  Thank You Baba.

Question:  Thank you Gurudev, Babaji. Following Your advice, meditating one hour a day.

Babaji Maharaj:  Yes.

Same questioner:  I’m moving to the satvik diet and caring for the health of the body and…  

Babaji Maharaj:  Yeah, that will be helpful; that will be helpful for you to practice meditation.

Same questioner: My question – nirvana ashatakam, one line, awareness bliss form I am Shiva, I am Shiva. Roopa, in English – could You talk about roopa?

Babaji Maharaj:  Here you need to understand – Shiva means your existence in total thoughtlessness state. Nishchestit. When chesta means the mind wavering or doing something. When the mind does not do anything that becomes one with Shiva. That’s what the sentence means. Chidananda Roopa, Shivoham, Shivoham. Shiva – Aham. This ‘I’ is not the ‘I’ what I had imagined hitherto but this ‘I’ is one with the Shiva. He is that thoughtlessness state of the Self actually.

Question:  Yes Baba, Thank You again for being with us. It is truly amazing to spend time with a realized being. It’s so unusual, we’re very lucky. I have a question about creativity. So, I paint a little bit and I imagine what I’m going to paint beforehand. So I see this as kind of living in the future. I’m imagining how I want the painting to look, what colours I’m going to use and how big of a canvas and things like that. And so I know that in meditation my primary goal is to just be living in the present, in this moment, right now, right here, has nothing to do with the future. So my question is how do you balance this living in the present with the imagination that is living in the future, what I’m looking forward to or what I’m imagining some kind of creative project? Thank You.

Babaji Maharaj:  Before also I have told what you are supposed to do with the past and future, to remain in the present. You know, past is meant so that you learn if you had committed any mistake and you don’t repeat. More than that you must not worry or feel guilty about the past. That is troublesome. In the same way for future, you can always be creative and plan what you want to do tomorrow, what you want to do the next day. Simply the problem arises if you become anxious, if you lose your patience, if you lose your present peace. So you remain in the present, put an effort in the present, and be mindful of what you are doing. Just you plan what you have to do, so then every moment after moment you will be facing that moment and you can remain in the present. Thus, without getting into any anxiety.

Same questioner: Okay, thank You. Yeah I’ll try that. Thank You.

Question:  Hi Baba it’s so good to see You. I met You for many years at Ananda in New York, Ananda Ashram. I just want to share and be honest that I’ve had a really hard time meditating the past year. I have so many excuses every day and I’ve been reading your book the Vivekachoodamani, the crest jewel of discrimination. And I read it all the time, and it tells me every day in every line that I need to meditate, and I still have not been doing it. And I think that seeing You is really inspiring and will help me tomorrow, but I was just wondering do You ever have challenges?

Babaji Maharaj:  Challenges are always there. Even before, even now, and future, but simply because I have kept my mind in the present in the Self, so we face it just like a sportively. We are not either bothered or we don’t get into any anxiety, no troubles and I don’t want to tell that I was troubled or I had such a tough time. There is nothing. It is simple. Simply a challenge and we face it. That’s what we learned from our Gurus, our elders, and we simply learn to face it. If life is a challenge, you face it. So, thus we all have challenges, every moment. Like my Guru also used to tell – I’ll tell one sentence, He used to tell, “Twelve years I sat for tapas and that was the easiest thing I did in my life. After that, to deal with human beings, to establish ashrams, everybody ate me up like that. So that was the most difficult thing.”  So sometimes He used to scold us also, “Instead of having you human being, if I had some buffalos, that would have been much better for me, idiots!”  He used to scold us when we did some mistake. So, like that challenge is always there, but Swamiji also used to be very humorous and He used to make us laugh even in the midst of difficulties. So, that’s what we also learnt. Laughter is the best medicine. When you have challenges be humorous to yourself, to others. Talk sweetly to others. Don’t show any irritation, don’t show any anger to anybody. Become more sweet when you have more challenges. That’s what the beauty of life. Then you also would not feel that challenge as a challenge.

Same questioner: Thank You Baba. So good to see You.

Question:  Good morning Babaji. Thanks for being with us today. I have a question. I would like to know if You practice bhakti yoga, and if it’s yes how do You practice bhakti yoga?

Babaji Maharaj: Bhakti yoga – Due to imagination, mind has gone out of control, and using the same imagination as Divinity, you try to bring that mind back to the Self. That is the basic idea of bhakti marga. So, your mind’s application is important,  that’s what God wants. Any other exercises like a ritual is your choice. It doesn’t have to be a hard rule. They are all traditionally coming; this point you need to understand. Like God has not demanded gold or silver, water or milk. Whatever you offer you can offer. God takes it, but God demands your mind’s application. Like whenever you are doing a bhakti-marga, listening to a music, singing or doing any worship, and you are fond of a form of the Divinity, then you fall in love. You love that God’s form for sake of love without any expectations. Thus you can merge with that Divinity. That is the highest form of bhakti yoga, is when you love God for sake of love only. You go in quest of knowledge for sake of knowledge, not for any other purpose. So thus you would have served the highest method of bhakti yoga if you practice like this.

Same questioner: Thank You.

Babaji: Blessings.

Question:  Hi Baba. Thank You so much for being with us. Just a question on meditation – I’ve noticed when you meditate there’s that focusing, but then there’s also the feeling of surrender which is letting go, and that seems to allow you to go a little deeper. And it seems like that’s that balancing act. Can You talk a little bit about surrender and also how it might relate to the Inner Guru? I was hoping to hear a little bit about that too.

Babaji Maharaj:  Definitely. Actual surrender happens only when the mind recedes and starts going introvert. That’s when it surrenders to the Divinity. I have told before, mind has no third way, either it is in the world, in this universe with imaginations wandering like a monkey, or if it becomes quiet then it goes to its source, the Divine. When it becomes quiet means it has surrendered – no more agitation in the mind, no more thinking, no more analysing, no more judgments. When these things stop that is the real surrender. Means we surrender to the wishes of the Divinity. We don’t have anything to say, no comments; “Oh God, whatever you do you do – let me be with you. Please inspire my wisdom so that I don’t lose proper wisdom.”  That is important. “May it happen as you wish.”  That is the real surrender.

Same questioner:  That’s beautiful, and on the idea of the inner Guru, it seems like almost sometimes when I have a question or some or even during meditation it seems like there’s some guidance there. How do you tell that is the Inner Guru?

Babaji Maharaj:  That is the Inner Guru. As I told the ultimate source of the mind is recognized as the Ultimate Truth or Divinity, and that is the Inner Guru. The source of whatever comes is from there only. So when your mind is best concentrated, when it is more silent then it gets connected to that Divinity. Then what comes is the real inspiration from that source.

Same questioner: Thank You.

Question:  Good morning. Thank You for being with us. My question is about the ego. And I’m very aware that it’s hard for us to sort of purge the ego, but I think I’m at the step where I’m noticing ego, and I’m noticing as I’m saying something that’s coming from ego, and it might be hurtful to someone or someone might take it the wrong way. And I feel like I’m caught in a bit of a loop understanding what to do with ego, when I’m recognizing it for what it is. Should I pat it on the head and treat it like a child? I’m not sure what to do once you start noticing, when you’re very much separate from your ego.

Babaji Maharaj:  One sentence I remember, having read in a Reader’s Digest magazine fifty years ago, as a school student – ‘By paying attention too much at others’ faults we die before having had the time to know our own.’  This is a very good definition for ego. Often we try to analyse, we build up opinions about our surroundings, about others, about this world, this society, countries and so on, and on, and on, thought after thought, thought after thought, millions and millions of thoughts crop, crop up, and they get acquired as a habit by the mind. So, that is how the shape of ego keeps taking and keeps troubling always. So this is what the great sages of the ancient times called – mind taking six shapes. Kama is the extreme desire; krodha is extreme anger; lobha is extreme stinginess; moha, extreme attachment to this materialistic world; mada is false pride; matsarya is jealousy. So any shape the mind takes it would be one of these, coming under these headings. So we need to take care. That’s why they called these six shapes as the enemies of human mind, ari shadwarga. Ari is the enemy; shadwarga is the six shapes of the mind.

   So if we practice spiritual exercises, then we can overcome the ego. Ego also stops from learning, stops us from learning. That’s why our Master Swamiji – often He spoke about this ego. “Ego is the biggest hurdle,” He used to say. “Ignorance is not ego. Ignorance is not a curse. Ego is a curse,” He used to tell. So we always remember that one. So, this is the shortest possible definition for ego. May you be blessed to lose ego, all humanity we pray for them.

Same questioner: Thank You.

Question:  Baba, ego – is it really the sense of ‘I am the doer’ and ‘I’m the receiver?’

Babaji Maharaj:  Yeah, that is the shape it takes. When you get into ‘I am the doer,’ so, whatever do, that impression is absorbed as ‘I am the one who has to get anger,’ ‘I am the one who is desiring this to happen.’  If it doesn’t happen then ‘I feel disappointed.’  Like I, I, I, this comes everywhere. So that is the beautiful form of ego.

Same questioner:  You’ve said often that the samskaras, our judgments are actually egos because they bind us into thinking, so when you say ‘I determined this to be true,’ meaning ‘I’ve made, I’ve judged it,’ and now that becomes a permanent part of your thinking and that becomes a restriction.

Babaji Maharaj:  Exactly. That’s how we build opinion about others, about the society, countries, and the world, and then we get agitated, and we get troubled, we get bothered. So that’s how it works.

Same questioner:  Now, You said in the past for Self-Realization all those samskaras have to be, what, dissolved?

Babaji Maharaj:  Yes, that’s why we ask you just to watch when those samskaras are all going out. The garbage is being thrown out. In meditation you just watch. Don’t bother again, don’t build up any opinions, don’t try to comment for anything, don’t try to imagine about anything. So then it’s all gone. Then you have that peace.

Same questioner:  Samskara, we just mean by that the…

Babaji Maharaj:  … acquired habits of the mind.

Same questioner:  Okay, one more question Baba. How would You explain the distinctions between ‘I am-ness’ consciousness, Pure Consciousness and the absolute or parabrahman?

Babaji Maharaj:  Just before the actual merger, this ‘I am-ness’ is experienced without any definition, and without anything else, no other imagination, the awareness of the ‘I’ comes. Then when the merger happens, that also goes. There is neither ‘I’ nor the parabrahman, only one Self remains there. There cannot be two different things. As long as the ‘I’ is there, I and the parabrahman appears to be two; ‘I’ as the separation and the ‘I’ experiencing the parabrahman or thinking about the parabrahman. They both have to vanish, the seer and the seen.

Same questioner:  So the ‘I’ – as the mind becomes quieter the ‘I’ starts to associate or identify with just the consciousness until it starts to feel unbounded and infinite but there’s still ‘I am unbounded’.

Babaji Maharaj:  Still it is there.

Same questioner:  So there’s still some ignorance there?

Babaji Maharaj:  Yeah, I and the unbinded – these two both are ignorance, means both are imaginations.

Same questioner:  Yeah, so they’re both, that’s knowledge. Knowledge is there, so ultimately you have to go beyond that?

Babaji Maharaj:  Beyond that. Beyond that.

Question:  Baba I have a question about this. What’s been coming up for me is this – the question who am I, and I know through my meditation that I’m not this mind that keeps changing. I feel that through experience. I intellectually know that I’m not the body but I’m still very much identified with the body. When the mind has settled in meditation and there’s that silence, stillness, and just being, I don’t need a label for who I am. I don’t want a label for who I am. But I keep wondering, Well how do I think of myself at this stage, like who am I? Am I the dynamic consciousness? What would You recommend that if I did think when my mind asks…I know I shouldn’t have an answer, but who am I at this point, who am I?  

Babaji Maharaj:  You see when this thing comes, you are that Ultimate Truth, That. The ultimate of the mind. If mind is a droplet, the ultimate source of that is what you are actually, but when you go there you won’t have that imagination. Just like the tiger would not think ‘I am tiger.’  Only we have identified the tiger and that is what the imagination crops up. That is the problem with human. Like all other creatures, they don’t think, they just hunt their livelihood. Once that is filled, they keep quiet. But we want to have a definition for ourselves, but then we want to put others down and us in an upper state. If these two things are not there, that is the real you.

Same questioner:  Yeah, I guess for me it’s the best to just go back to just being and know when the mind is trying to define something, it’s just trying to put a concept or label on it?

Babaji Maharaj:  Exactly. When you stop trying to put any label, so that is the real you. Just like as long as you try to put a label for the length and breadth of the space, you are limiting. You stop labelling, you are in the space.

Same questioner:  I have one other question or just your comments on. You were talking to Ryan. That Inner Guru, when you’re still, the inner Guru comes up and shares with you, and I have been practicing in my work that when I work I work, when I’m not at work I don’t think about it. It’s been a great practice, but I’ve also been seeing that what it’s allowing me to do is to be more spontaneous and trust what is being shown what I need to do next or the action I need to take and I’m trusting it that that’s coming from the clearest place, and I’m just moving forward. Can You can you talk about that?

Babaji Maharaj:  Yeah, this can happen in the best possible way when your mind has stopped imagining, when it is more silent, then going introvert it gets connected best with that source. So that is when this comes as the inspiration or as a guidance, whatever word you want to use – what to do next. So you are guided best by your real Self.

Same questioner: Thank You Baba. Thank You.

Question:  Yeah Baba, I just have a quick question on – we were talking about going to the ultimate truth. And that reminds me, You talk about the Ultimate Truth or the source is not inert. And I’ve always kind of tried to understand what is meant there? I mean I know it’s probably impossible for us to imagine, but you know because I think sometimes my mind thinks the ultimate source is almost blank, or inert, you know. So can You give us a clue onto what that is?

Babaji Maharaj:  You see, though it might appear to be inert, it is not inert. The best clue is this world, you as this physical body – all these have come out of that source only. If that can be so creative, that is what is Supreme Consciousness we mean. Combination of Supreme Consciousness and Supreme Energy. Because it is Supreme Consciousness it is able to be creative. It has the power to imagine. These things are not ordinary qualities. Even in a human mind, your ability to imagine is not an ordinary quality. Only the problem arises when you lose control over imagination. As long as you are able to control, the things are under your control. You have thousand dollars; as long as you have control over that fund, there is no problem. If you lose control you might end up doing wrong things for yourself. That’s what happened. So you get into trouble. So we all got into trouble by doing that wrong thing, for forgetting that real Self, and trying to do our own things. So when you surrender, you get connected and you get the best guidance, and the best things that is coming in this world. Then your life can become a mission. You will be helpful for a larger cause; you will always think for a larger cause and try to be helpful to others.

End of Questions and Answers

Babaji Maharaj now concludes the session.

    Wonderful. This is what you try to live a beautiful life in this world. We have to remember – Swamiji said “When you live for yourself, it is a simple life. If you can live for others, it is mission.”  That’s what reminds as we are going to celebrate His birthday next Sunday. And by also living in this world in this way, that we are helpful to others for a larger cause, and we also have once in a life cycle chance to know our real Self. As human beings you are on the edge. You can climb on the ladder towards Divinity or you can belittle yourself going down the throat of the snake. You have to be careful, you are on the edge. So what you do is important. Look after your mind. The more it is non-violent, you win. You have a challenge to live in this world, to defend yourself, to give opinion, or to do nicer things, to resist the wrong things, to protest for the evil or any bad thing. Here evil or bad thing means anything that is harmful for a larger cause – for the peace of the society, peace of the country, peace of the world is to be considered a wrong thing, bad or an evil. That we have to protest. We have to strongly resist that such a thing might not happen. That’s what Lord Krishna also showed. If the ruler is both righteous, you understand dharmatma, noble and also powerful; both qualities are equally important. If only one is there, the other can get misguided. If the ruler is powerful and not noble, he might end up doing wrong things to the subjects of this world. If the ruler is not powerful, only noble, then also others can take over him, dictate him what to do, and end up making him to do wrong things. That’s why Lord Krishna dreamt that always if the ruler is both noble and powerful then the subjects can have peace, then right things will happen. That’s what we have to pray to the Divine that all over the world governing people may be both powerful and noble so that we humanity can learn to live for each other, love each other, honour each other, and remain in our real Self. May all the beings in all the worlds be happy.

End of Session