0:00 Introduction
0:21 The difference between the eternal existence and consciousness
10:51 Once the mind becomes totally still does it transcend consciousness?
15:15 If the mind creates the illusion does it all disappear when you quieten the mind?
17:32 Is mind an imagination?
19:30 Is there a universal mind?
22:24 The essence of Shri Shivabalayogi Maharaj’s teachings
29:47 Does giving up the world mean being irresponsible?
31:14 Swamiji, the Jangama sage and His tapas
37:44 Creation seems to have order, where does this order come from?
42:36 What is purification of the mind?
45:06 in meditation is there a difference between focusing between the eyebrows and focusing on the heart space?
45:55 How is the world an illusion when it appears to be a reality?
48:16 Where does control of the mind and good behaviour in the world fit into the process of purification in meditation?

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 76
The Eternal Existence and Consciousness
Recorded: 12 December 2021 with US participants

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Okay, Baba, a couple of things – I would like You to elaborate or distinguish between eternal existence and consciousness, go into that in a little bit of detail. You’ve said before that consciousness erupted out of eternal existence or the Parabrahman.  And it was a giant eruption, but it was just a small little speck of eternal existence.  This is a little bit similar to The Big Bang Theory for the manifestation of the universe.  The Big Bang Theory they say that happened about 13.8 billion years ago.  And then it started out as a singularity, one something, and they refer to it sometimes as the primal atom, the seed of creation, and then it erupted.  And eventually it coalesced into subatomic particles and subatomic particles became atoms and atoms became molecules and molecules became different forms of matter.  That matter coalesced into all the different forms of manifest existence.  So anyway, could You clarify the distinction between the eternal existence and consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Ah yeah, very true.  Eternal existence is the ultimate and that is beyond consciousness and energy also.  Because consciousness means wherever you apply, you become aware of that.  But if there is no further job for the consciousness to imagine, then it totally recedes and subsides, composed. Thus it becomes eternal existence but there is no consciousness functioning, or any energy has any function at all.  It’s total stillness, which is known as mahasamadhi.  Maha is the supreme stillness.  So, that’s what happens. 

   And even in the scriptural stories also, it says that an enormous amount of consciousness arose first.  It was very ferocious because of the presence of energy also.  But then that consciousness started shouting, “Who am I?  How I have I come into existence?”  Like for example, generally all the species including human beings in this world, when they are born in the body, and then they grow up, they seldom think about ‘who am I’, because they will consider “We are born because of our parents.  We are born to our parents.”  And generation after generation, that’s what is the thinking – a body is being born and it is born to a parent’s body.  So that’s what, and then it stops there.  But suppose if you had appeared in this body also, suddenly in the space in some form or other, then you would have wondered, “How did I come into existence?  Who was the reason to create me to bring me to this form?”  Thus, that is known as Rudra, the ferociousness is known as Rudra.  Then, it is said that from the space a voice came, “Just sit down and observe in between eyebrows about yourself.”  So then Rudra went into samadhi again.  So the creation could not continue because no illusions happened at all or no other imaginations came into existence. 

   That was when the other concepts of Brahma – Brahma means not a personality – the Consciousness thought of creating an illusion which can be sustained.  So then the creation will go on.  Thus the enormous amount of consciousness that arose, that created, but initially they didn’t get involved into the creation, means mentally they did not get involved.  Thus there was no corruption in the consciousness; they remained in the Self.  So thus they always remained in the Self.  And that is explained as the Trinities of three concepts of the creation, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, and decodified as the ‘Aum’ sound.  Aum also when you chant, you open your lips, ‘Auuumm’ – like that you close the lips.  That’s when the Shiva is the withdrawal and your existence in total thoughtlessness state.  

   So now consciousness remains, and it imagines.  When it gets involved into imagination and then considers that imagination as a true existence, then it becomes corrupted.  Corrupted means here, forgets about its Real Self, about the eternal entity that it is.  So then it becomes mind.  So generation after generation.  So insecurity happens; that is how things have formed.  Like even in the story also, it has been mentioned, the first Trinities Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, are mentioned as the Divine entities who are eternal, who remained in the Self.  But after that the angels that are mentioned, they got corrupted out of power-mongering, insecurity feeling, then next incarnation got more corrupted.  Like the human being now, the mind is very little percentage, actually; if the percentage of the human potency, mind’s potency is ten, so imagine the potency of the Divinity.  The human mind itself can work so much of wonders when it is concentrated.  So whenever this mind becomes purified, it gets converted or regains back into its original form of consciousness.  And after that, the consciousness merges into itself, then it becomes totally still. 

So that’s what happens.  This is the consciousness and eternal entity.  Consciousness is there, but it can imagine any time. It is ready to imagine, it is creative.  So once it gets into imagination, but doesn’t return into consciousness, then it cannot go back to the Self, eternal Self.  So then it becomes corrupted and goes further into incarnations, next birth, next birth, next birth, and the never-ending process keeps going.  Now the meditation technique was evolved, so that when the sages thought about the Self, about the eternal entity, “Who am I actually?  Am I this matter or the imagination or the imagined world or this body or the intellect which thinks about it, or what it is?”  Then they went on observing.  As they went on observing, their minds became blissful and silent.  Then it became Pure Consciousness.  They continued it.  With that they continued.  They lost any interest to create anything further, or be creative or imagine, then they merged with the Self, then there was neither consciousness nor energy – one single Self that existed.  That is the eternal entity.  That’s what when a Self-Realized Master happens, it is said, “A jeevanmukta is in the form of Pure Consciousness as long as the body is alive.”  He doesn’t get involved into creation, He is in the awareness of the Self all the time, but He would have experienced the Self also beyond consciousness and energy in the silence, total stillness.  He waits for the body to get dropped.  When the body gets dropped, a yogi…the attaining status is known as videha mukthi.  After the body is finished, He merges with the eternal entity, and the consciousness also does not perform anything – anymore creativity.  That is the total liberation or Self-Realization.

Question:   So Baba, the mind becomes quiet and recedes into consciousness and then consciousness recedes You said into itself.  Does that mean into the Parabrahman, into eternal existence?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  When that enters it means all terminologies end.

Question:   So when You use the term ‘Pure Consciousness’, do You actually mean that which has transcended consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Transcended the creativity.  All the created things; all the created things have been withdrawn that means.  That’s what is transcended.

Question:   Pure consciousness, this just means the mind in total stillness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.

Question:   But once the mind becomes totally still, then it transcends consciousness?

Babaji Maharaj:   No, because as long as the body is there it remains as the consciousness, but it pure, in the purest form.  Because as a witness, the yogi watches this world also. Simply does not get involved into the world mentally with any further imagination – any analyzation or any judgment is not there. He’s just quietly there, waits for the body to come to an end.  He would have experienced the truth of Self in the nirvikalpa samadhi stage, but when the body is active in the world it is Pure Consciousness – simply He is holding onto the awareness, but it is not into any type of imagination.

Question:   So, having attained nirvikalpa, He did transcend consciousness, but then when it comes back into function in the world, He retains that pure awareness of eternal existence while conscious?

Babaji Maharaj:   Because this happens naturally I think.  Because as I have told, if the body needs to be alive to function, so that is considered an ordainment from the Divine, from the Real Self, from that eternal entity, so that this body can create the awareness and guide and inspire, motivate others to achieve the same entity, the eternal entity experience of nirvikapa samadhi which the yogi had achieved.  For that purpose He maintains a sattvic ego of an attachment to the Master or to create an awareness, but doesn’t go further into imagination.  He is totally contented, at peace.  He has abandoned all cravings.  He’s in Pure Consciousness form.  That is known as Pure Consciousness, but can imagine if necessary, but He will not get involved into the imagination.  That means imagine, that yogi’s consciousness will be equivalent to the Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva concepts; in that purity of consciousness it will be there.  Once the body is dropped in due course of time, then the merger finally – the Self, one single Self, which is beyond consciousness and energy.

Question:   So you become like the Trinity in the sense that you’re observing, witnessing the creation, but you’re not really involved in it?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.

Question:   And as long as you have a body, You have to have some kind of sattvic ego, some lesha vidya, kind of a footprint, a shadow in order to continue to function in the world?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, this is my personal experience and opinion.  Otherwise, the brain dies.  Because as I have told, apart from the blood and oxygen that needs the supply to the brain to be active and alive, mind’s application, a little bit of consciousness application is also necessary for the brain to be alive and active.  Otherwise if totally it is withdrawn, the brain stops functioning, it dies.

Question:   Yeah, you know, if anybody’s ever had someone dying in their arms, you experience when that prana, that life force and consciousness leaves.  It goes from being your beloved to just a corpse.  It’s amazing.

Babaji Maharaj:   That is the prana, yes.

Question:   Okay Baba.  So the mind and manifest existence really are kind of the same thing?

Babaji Maharaj:   Mind and manifest?

Question:   Existence, manifest existence, because the mind creates all the illusion, the manifest existence.  So if you quiet the mind, it all disappears.

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, in context with this universe, the appearance of the universe or galaxies, mind’s potency is less.  Actually the potency of consciousness that has created these galaxies and the worlds is much higher than the mind’s potency.  In that a further involvement, that which has dwarfed that consciousness, which has now become the mind of a human being.  So this mind is also amazingly powerful; it can be like a genius work, so much of creativity, discoveries, so many things have happened.  But however, compared to the consciousness that has created this universe, this mind is very less, very much dwarfed.  So because you see, this mind cannot handle this creation, the manifested; it can handle only the world that it has absorbed within itself.  That has to be handled first.  The Master teachers, “You don’t bother about this world. You just handle the world that is in your mind. You work to silence the mind.  You work so that your mind becomes still and then you will know the secrets of the entire creation also, where and when it will merge – you will be able to experience that only in nirvikalpa samadhi.  And finally, the body gets dropped, so that’s what happens.

Question:   So Baba, mind and imagination – are they kind of synonymous?   The power of consciousness to manifest?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.

Question:   So mind and imagination are similar?

Babaji Maharaj:   So as long as there is imagination, that imagination is known as mind.

Question:   So the creative consciousness, that consciousness and energy has this tool called mind or imagination, and it imagines the manifestation and then it can withdraw it and just be still?

Babaji Maharaj:   Also, you have to notice, to deal with this world also, to live in this world or operate in this universe, the appearance, mind has to come into a little bit of imagination, but a yogi’s imagination does not get involved or doesn’t become unaware of the Self.  It is always aware of the Self and also very well aware this universe also is only illusion. Illusion means, criteria here, a thing which does not have any existence value but appears to be so solidly existing.

Question:   Yeah, that’s how You use the word imagination.  A lot of people are thrown off with that but You actually use it in the purest way. Imagination means something that is in your mind that doesn’t really exist – and You really literally mean everything that’s in the mind doesn’t really exist.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  [laughs] Very true, right.

Question:   So Baba, is there a cosmic mind or a universal mind, a collective mind?  It’s kind of the first mind or the one that is controlling everything… I wouldn’t say controlling necessarily, but You said that for us to just control our own mind – get to know that.  It’s not hard to imagine a bigger mind and we’re all just a piece of that?

Babaji Maharaj:   So that’s what the concept of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.  In Sanskrit, the meaning of these words – Brahma is the one who creates illusion but doesn’t get involved into that creation.  Means He imagines, He creates; let us take instead of imagination, let us use the word He creates, but doesn’t get involved into the creation.  But whereas ordinary human being, when they create means, when they imagine, they get involved into that imagination, considering that to be a fundamental reality, so that’s when they get involved into the problem.  And they lose the Self-identity at all, and they become ignorant of what the Self is.  So that’s where it is advised to think about who am I, or Self-Realization, all these things are necessary.  The yogi advises for this.

Question:   And what about Vishnu and Shiva, Baba in that same context?

Babaji Maharaj:   That imagined thing widely sustained.  So you imagine, and you go on imagining – you get involved, but this concept also, Vishnu, sustains that imagination, giving an illusionary effect to the imagined things only. Means it will be something – I will explain – in the mind, you imagine. All the imagined things get involved in the illusion, but you don’t get involved into that illusion.  You are very well aware that it’s only an imagined thing.  But for human beings, this is very difficult, almost impossible.  They get involved into the mind’s imagination as if it is the reality.  So that is the Vishnu concept – sustaining that a long time.  Shiva is withdrawal back into Self.  Also in other words, like your existence in total thoughtlessness state.  So they are the enormous amount of the consciousness, that gravity that is working.

Question:   Beautiful.  So Baba, changing the subject a little bit.  Could You talk a little bit about Shivabalayogi, Swamiji, some of His teachings and sayings that left an impression on You?  He spoke very simply, He didn’t elaborate like you to do. A couple words and that was it, but they were very profound.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  He said, “Everything of this world, this universe creation is simply like a dream.  So you do not consider this universe as any reality and you don’t even consider that you are connected to this world also.  There’s nothing.  Simply because of your own mind’s imagination you have connected yourself, whereas you are not connected at all.”  So He used to give an example – like you have gone to a wedding party where you are not invited, and you are made to stand outside, but in your mind you are trying to enjoy the wedding party and feast everything, but you are not allowed to come inside.  That is how is you and this creation, He used to tell.  

This creation is that as the mind you cannot touch anything; in your imagination only you touch this world.  That is what you as the consciousness and nothing can touch your mind also.  Yet you start thinking that as if everything is yours.  So thus you are getting involved into an imagination even though you are not inside the wedding party, you are just standing outside.  So, you are not allowed at all.  You are asked to get out.  That’s how He used to laugh.  Heartily He used to laugh like that.  This example today you asked and it reminded me that once He spoke of this – I remembered this, had forgotten this, today it came to mind.  So like that He used to give His philosophy as He had advised to read the Yoga Vashista also.  “So everything, this world also is a dream.  Not your dream.  You don’t have to bother about this world, you bother about your own dream.  You are standing outside.  From there, better you get back to your home to find your self-respect.”  For that He used to tell, “Look, a tiger will have respect in the deep jungles, not on the roads of the city.  You don’t try to go into this world unnecessarily.  You just remain in yourself, then you have respect for yourself.”  That also He used to tell like that. 

This is the essence of His teachings.  And several times in so many ways, He would have told one sentence, like one word, like that He would have told me. Apart from that He spoke about Yoga Vashista, “This world is another dream and your mind is another dream.  You are dreaming another dream, you are trying to enter a bigger dream where you are kicked out of that dream.  You are not there, you are not here.  So you are unnecessarily bothering and you have lost yourself and you are banging your head on to the wall unnecessarily.  Now, enough is enough.  Let’s go home.”  That’s what He used to say.

Question:   I remember You used to say that people would ask Him that they want to get Self-Realized.  And He said, “Just meditate and you’ll know the truth,” and that’s it, no explanation.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.  Because these things, if you go on telling everyone people will be bewildered, “What is this phenomenon?  You don’t belong to this world, you have nothing in this world, you are nobody in this world, you are just made to stand outside, you are not allowed inside.”   So all these things can make people bewildered. Unless you come to a particular stage, gain that understanding capability of what He really meant about that.  He used to have His own type of language, terminologies; it was always like a banging theory type He spoke.

Question:   What was that story Baba where the person wanted Self-Realization?  He told him to go to the market and buy a pair of sandals and hit himself?

Babaji Maharaj:   I remember, somebody in Bangalore – I was there. In ‘93 He was undergoing dialysis also. At that time suddenly somebody asked, “I want Atmasakshatkara; I want Self-Realization”.  He said, “Just go to market, buy a pair of shoes and hit it on your head; you will get Self-Realized.” [laughs] See, it has great meaning.  First thing, you have to lose your ego.  Without losing the ego, you want the Self-Realization.  How will it come?  So, you have to silence your mind.   Losing the ego means forget about this world if you can; remove this world from your mind.  Whatever you have imagined, remove that one; to silence that you have to give up ego.  So that’s how many times, in other words used to tell, like, “I want the devotees to come as a devotee to me.  Don’t come to me as a royal person, as an army general or a brigadier or a businessman or an engineer or a doctor or a policeman. 

People come to me in that ego “I am a VIP policeman.  I must be able to sit with Swamiji, specially gossip with him and go away.”  They come, gossip, they create another world and simply go away.  They don’t gain anything because they don’t want to meditate.  If I tell them “Meditate,” they won’t understand, they want to be gossiping with all these things.  So you hang the coat just like the British gentleman – British used to take out the coat and cap, hang it, come inside, have the dinner and then take the cloth and go out.  That’s it.”  He used to tell.  “So you come, meditate and then get out.”  So that’s how He used to talk some time.  So that’s needed actually.  Otherwise, that was the ego He meant to hit with the shoes.

Question:   That’s like Ashtavakra and King Janaka?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, that’s why Ashtavakra wanted King Janaka to come down the throne – “First give up your throne.  That’s what the ego is making you not to understand the teachings at all.  When you have that ego, even if I try to teach you, you cannot get into that.  Then finally you will scold me and go away.”

Question:   Baba, can you just clarify though?  Giving up the world – does it mean being irresponsible?

Babaji Maharaj:   No, no.

Question:   It means non-attachment to…?

Babaji Maharaj:   Non-attachment mentally, mentally non attachment.

Question:   Actually the people I think that are the most settled in themselves, they tend to be the most responsible and at the same time, often the least attached to the outcome.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, least attached to the outcome, acceptance, all these things, then you have peace.  Means you go.  If they allow you to eat the feast inside the wedding party, you go; if they don’t allow, you just remain outside, that’s it.  So, acceptance. That is the acceptance in fact.  That’s what Swamiji meant in His own way.  So if you have acceptance, you will lose the ego.  And this world cannot trouble you.  You have to be in the world, you don’t have to give up anything.  Because giving up the world is another illusion actually – you will pick up another world in your mind.  Just remain in whichever way of life that you have adopted.  Just be there, but mentally remain unattached.

Question:   So You talked about how at the end of Shivabalayogi’s tapas, He had the Jangama Shiva, appear to him in a vision.  And I was wondering if during the beginning of his tapas, when He began His tapas, did He also have a vision of Jangama Shiva?  When did He first see Jangama Shiva?

Babaji Maharaj:   No, in the beginning of His tapas, to make Him go into tapas, the Divinity appeared as a Jangama sage.  He was with a matted hair like a sage.  In that area, they recognized such a personality as a Jangama Deva.  So that’s what Swamiji used to mention.  But in the end, what He saw was Shiva and Parvati – they both. The Divine in what’s known as Shankara or Shiva, in that form He had appeared.  That’s what He saw in the end of the tapas.

Question:   So how old was He, when He first saw the Jangama Sage?

Babaji Maharaj:   Fourteen-year-old in 1949 on the seventh day of August.

Question:   And had He begun His tapas already, or was that the beginning of His tapas?

Babaji Maharaj:   No, that was the beginning.  From that moment only He began. He was asked to sit into lotus posture.  He asked, “Why should I sit?” but He sat down.  His mind had become mesmerized.  And then Jangama helped Him to sit into lotus posture.  Then He touched in between eyebrows of the young boy.  Satyaraju was his name.  So then He touched and asked Him to close the eyes, “Concentrate your mind and sight in between eyebrows.  Just keep watching there.  And don’t repeat anything.  Don’t imagine anything.”  So this much He told, and “Don’t open your eyes.”  So Swamiji used to tell, “I just did that, and samadhi occurred.”  You know, He had some inborn qualities of total determination, hang on to it, do or die type of determination, He had that temperament.  So that’s why in a moment’s notice, He could jump into that; He just went on watching.

Question:   So before that, he was just a normal boy?

Babaji Maharaj:   As far as spirituality concerned, He appeared like a normal boy.  But His courage, His honesty, His determined work – in a moment’s notice He would get into that.  Like for example, at the age of five, when He understood they were poor people; His mother was working to sustain the family, He decided from now onwards, “I will work.  My mother will not have to work.  So even if I get into education, get a degree, then also I will earn the same amount of money.  Now also I can work and earn it.”  He was a very intelligent boy.  He dropped out of the school and just got into the job of weaving saris and dhotis and other things, clothing.  So then He sold them and brought money.  So like that for anything, for changing in a moment’s notice He would get into the job.  He would never cry or worry like that one.  Just had to do means do it. 

   And like after tapas, sitting two, three months after that, one day He felt very terrible pain in the body.  Because the snake had bitten him, some scorpions were biting him, He was sitting in the open air.  It was rainy season, August.  Heavy rains had made everywhere muddy.  His skin of the thighs was decaying.  So flesh was decayed.  So flesh was being eaten.  So once He got up, then for a while He thought, “Why should I be sitting in the graveyard like a dead man?  I did not ask that Jangama Deva to make me to sit for tapas like this.  I did not pray to any God also.  I don’t know why He has appeared and made me to sit.  I must go back home, do business and help my family people.”  He started coming.  At the gate of the graveyard, the Jangama sage standing there.  He told, “Your prarabhda, your destiny has made me to manifest like this.  And for twelve years, I’m not going to allow you to go anywhere else.  You have to do this tapas.  After twelve years you are free to go and do anything.”  Then He came back, “If that is the case, I will sit down for twelve years, I will not get up.  If at all my tapas ends, means only the death of the body will make it end, otherwise I will not give up.  Now I will not run away, come what may be.  I will do or die.”  With that determination He came back and sat.  So that was His nature, amazing nature, qualities that were all there. 

   And He was very intelligent.  He would never become a victim of any superstitious things and nobody could exploit him.  Like one time a person had come in the village – he would go to different villages, threatened people that “I will turn you all into a tiger if you don’t give me money.”  Like that he would exploit people.  He (Guru Maharaj) gave a rope to His uncle telling, “If at all this man converts me into a tiger, I will not harm you because I will be aware that you are my uncle.  But you don’t allow me to run away to the jungles.  You tie me to a pole, so that after some time, I will definitely become a human being.  So that was His nature.  Well, finally the truth was that that person was only a fraud, and could not do anything to the boy, then the boy took a stick and started beating him up and drove him out of the village.  So that was the nature.  So He could go into such great tapas and become totally determined.  That was a great thing.

Question:   Baba, Brahma is associated with creation without getting involved in it.  And yet it’s not a random chaotic thing.  It seems to manifest in a context, some structure of some order.  For example an ego that was manifested, which means intelligence.  So we have now consciousness and energy and intelligence.  So if Brahma is responsible for this creation without getting involved in it, and it came out in an orderly fashion it appears, there must be a universal memory or a Supreme Entity or Brahma created this order that is a foundation for the manifestation, even though it’s an illusion.  It didn’t just create a bunch of atoms crashing around on planets with no ego, with no intelligence, with no consciousness.  Consciousness was infused into the creation along with the energy and the matter.  So that has to be based on some order.  So where does this order abide?

Babaji Maharaj:   Actually no such creation has happened at all.  So there is no question to bother about any order or disorder.  A thing is happening.  You call it either in order or in disorder.  But just for sake of understanding, we try to tell for a while, but it’s very mind boggling.  A spiritual seeker who wants to know the truth is advised just now not to bother because your mind’s level is not up to that state of understanding what has happened actually.  So that’s why the Guru teaches, “First try to clear your mind of all imaginations, achieve that silence.”  In that time of nirvikalpa samadhi, either you will understand on your own what has happened or after that if I explain to you only your mind will be able to absorb.   Just now it can be very confusing and mind boggling.  We need not have to bother about Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva.  We just have to bother about the mind that everybody is holding.  That is necessary.

Question:   So dwelling on scriptures and narratives about creation can almost be counterproductive to the goal of clearing your mind and becoming Self-Realized?

Babaji Maharaj:   Only productive thing is to have a firm conviction that “Everything is illusion, maya, illusion.” The story has been told and then explained it as a maya.  Even in Yoga Vashista also, stories have been told, then it has been told, “This does not exist at all, this did not happen at all.”  For sake of understanding.  If a student has not reached the understanding capability, he is likely to misunderstand.  Then if such a student writes another book, he will end up writing other illusory stories.  So nothing really exists.  There is no Brahma, no Vishnu, no Shiva, nothing is there – simply beyond the purest consciousness and energy, one eternal entity that is single Self.  That is there.  Have faith just now and try to clear your own mind.  You will know one day.

Question:   One last thing Babaji.  How did Swamiji get exposed to the Yoga Vashista?  Did He read it, had it been read to Him?  Because He advises to read the Yoga Vashista.  But what exposure and how did it happen?

Babaji Maharaj:   I asked Swamiji about this.  And He shouted at me, “How much do you want to know?  I will break your head with a stone.  Get out from here!” [laughs] “I’m not telling anything to you” –  Swamiji told me this.  He did not tell where He got to read or what happened.  So I just read it, that’s all.  I didn’t get involved into an argument with Him – “Where You got to read, how did You get exposed to this?”

Question:   Baba, I have one last question about purifying the mind.  You know, in the past I’ve thought it’s been different thoughts that you have to purify, but what seems to be coming to my awareness, it’s really about stopping the spinning and I wanted You to talk about what is purification of the mind?  And is it really just stopping the habitual thinking?  Or is it individual thoughts?  Can You clarify that?

Babaji Maharaj:  Whatever imagination that is in the mind or in the consciousness which has turned that into a mind is what needs to be purified.  So that consciousness temporarily has become impure with an imagination.  It is purely imagination, nothing really has happened anything there, yet it appears to be impure – that needs to be purified.   Because in imagination, you are flying an aircraft.  So in imagination, you need to be helped to bring the aircraft to a landing.  That is all happening.

Question:   So, is that achieved by both just ignoring the thought and going to silence or just watching?

Babaji Maharaj:   Both.  When you are watching also you are ignoring the thought. You are not getting involved into that thought. Or you ignore the thought is the same thing.  You just watch this world –  mentally you are ignoring, overlooking this world actually.

Question:   So earlier you mentioned the yogi doesn’t get involved – what I understand that to be and how I can apply it to my life is if I’m just in the ’now’ moment, always in the ‘now’ moment, not going into the future of the past, there’s a certain detachment to that, to the world, correct?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.

Question:   Okay.  Yes.  Okay.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, that happens.  Meditation is what it does to the mind, it neutralizes into the now.  Then automatically it is purified.

Same Questioner:   Thank You.

Question:   Someone’s asking, while meditating is there a difference between focusing between the eyebrows and focusing one’s awareness within the heart space?

Babaji Maharaj:   It’s the same if you can focus.  Because you have to imagine a location.  Whereas in between eyebrows, it’s already there.  And the eyes cannot go down so much and focus on the heart.  You have to imagine as if you are focusing on the heart space.  So that’s what happens.  Actually when the focus happens, if you are just watching, not imagining, it is the same thing.  But it must not give rise to any further imagination.

Same Questioner:   Thank You Baba.

Question:   My question Babaji is that the jobs that we have, something is offered to your contract or when a contract goes away.  So, the jobs we have or the family life we have, we can be detached, but are all these just illusions, or they are a reality but we can be detached.  So what I want to ask You is when You say the world is an illusion but it’s also a reality.  But I’ve come to the point of being disciplined not to keep imagining.

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, that’s why generally in my talks or answers to questions, I don’t touch this topic about this world, whether it is illusion or whether it is a reality, but for your sake of understanding, if it is possible, you see.  You get into a dream.  As long as you are dreaming, that dream appears to be totally a reality.  Why?  Because the one who is watching also is in the dream.  When you are in the same dimension, that appears to be a reality.  Only when you get out of that dream, when you are awaken, then only you realize you were dreaming.  Until then you don’t realize that you are dreaming.  In the same way this world also has happened.  A long-time dream; you are a part of that dream.  For that part of the dream, this appears as a reality.  It can never be proven that this is not a reality.  Because the mind absorbs in such a way.  However, whatever happens you will live a life in this one and deal with the things as if it is a reality.  As you go on progressing in meditation, slowly mind gets detached from worrying, thinking, absorbing any imprints, but it will behave like a normal person.  You will be able to live.  So it won’t be harmful.

Question:   Namaste Babaji.  Talking about purification, purification of the mind.  I had a two-part question.  One is, people usually think and also a lot of gurus advise them to control the mind and not have any arishadwargas, and to cultivate the divine attributes of generosity, love and selflessness and things like that.  So where does all that fit in the process of purification?

   The second part is in the Ashtavakra Gita I was reading, they were talking about the mind being like a mirror; you remove the dust particles.  So basically the mirror is where it reflects the objects, so it’s like whatever thoughts we have get reflected in the lake of the mind or the mirror of the mind.  So, cleaning the mirror would be just removing all those impressions and images and memories and thoughts, right?  Is that correct?  Did I understand correctly?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, for the first point,  in this world a good is a good, a bad is a bad.  Like to be generous is a good, to be stingy is bad.   Arishadwargas are bad.  If you’re living in the world, gurus advise that you try to be good.  However, to go into Self-Realization when we are advising means you don’t get involved either way.  Now, take one point, imagine if you call this world ‘very good’ in your mind, then also your mind is getting involved.  If you call this world as ‘very bad,’ then also your mind is getting involved.  To go for Self-Realization you had to rise above this duality.  Whereas while behaving in the world, you behave in such a way that you are useful for a larger cause.  You are not selfish and narrow-minded, but mentally you don’t take anything seriously.  So that is the purification.

  And Ashtavakra’s ‘mind as a mirror’.  You see, this world exists in its own way or doesn’t exist, whatever it is, but mind has absorbed imprints.  Mind is reflecting this world in its own way, based on the quality of the mirror.  Means, like every person has her or his own attitude about the world.  Not everybody has the same opinion or attitude about this world.  To some this may be happiness, to some this may be unhappiness, to some this may be reality, to some this may be a dream, to some this may be something, to some this may be something else.  Depending on their attitude, things appear to them.  That’s what Ashtavakra meant it to be a mirror, mirror appearance.  Whatever quality of mirror you have got, it will appear.  So finally you have to erase, delete that mirror itself, then nothing will be reflected.  Then the consciousness is in its purest form.  That’s what has to happen.

Same Questioner:   Thank You.

End of Session