0:00 Intro
0:14 Babaj’s experience the moment of completing tapas
6:00 What is the meaning of dreams?
10:00 With each reincarnation does our mind lose potency? if so, how can we be guided to the Truth?
17:10 Can we achieve Self Realization by doing just 1 hour of meditation each day?
25:08 How can we accept the biggest and most tragic events in life?
30:32 What is the biggest vasana?
31:43 What is the best quality to have for sadhana?
32:38 Closing words from Babaji

Discourse: Thus Spake Babaji – online Q and A No. 138
Destiny and Renunciation
Recorded: 13 July 2023 with Malaysian participants

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:  The last topic we were on Babaji, we were talking about destiny. In one of Babaji’s talks, Babaji mentioned, “When God appears in front of you, do not ask for anything that God can give you, ask for God only.”  Babaji, when that time comes one is said to have completed tapas and is now Self-realized, aware of the truth – then why do they still have desires? Can Babaji share with us Babaji’s experience the moment Babaji completed tapas?

Babaji Maharaj:  The technology, the science of the soul which has traveled long distance from the Self in illusion by imagining continuously; so, when that does the meditation and eventually tapas, so, it all becomes silent and gathers and is coming towards the Self. For this, it must have that one goal set, “We want to go back to Self, want supreme peace. Enough of these imaginations, and enough of these impermanent things; we were unnecessarily looking for peace and happiness in impermanent things which has only appearance value, but does not have any existence value.”  Thus, for this thing, it needs to have complete, perfect detachment from the unreal. It must not get attracted to the world or the appearance or any such illusion, any such desires in any way, any more. So, just like a mechanic when he repairs the car, he tests, he presses the accelerator and then tests the brake. So, here by an amazing technique the Divine tests your eligibility – are you really ready to merge with that Self-realization, that final thing – that is tested. Once your mind is blossomed, it is now pure consciousness, means it does not have any more desires, it is not interested in any illusory things, or impermanent things, it just wants God, means Divinity, the ultimate truth, no compromising effect at all.

That’s what Swamiji also used to teach us. “Even if God comes in front of you, remember, do not ask anything that God can give you. Ask that you want God only.”  That means the ultimate truth. Just before the actual merger, when the ‘I’ also disappears, sometimes a test can come in any form. It can be in a form that the Divinity might manifest as a form which you are used to, or a Guru might appear, any such thing, and that will test you that you are ready now to sit on the throne – an emperor, they used to test that he is perfectly ready to sit on the throne now. So, this is the final truth. You are merging with the ultimate truth, and you become one with the Divinity, you are no more an individual. Before that, this test occurs. And at that time, another important thing is, this every human being particularly needs to understand, you might be able to tell a lie and cheat somebody else, but you cannot cheat your own conscience (antakarana), your own things, you cannot cheat yourself; you know your mind. Whatever is in your mind, if there is a desire that comes out, so if you are humble, if you have the detachment, you won’t have anything. That’s what when in front of Swamiji Divine Shiva Parvati appeared when they told, “Your twelve-year tapas is over. Now, according to your desire, you can go and do anything. You want to do business; you can go and do it.”  But that was the thing. Swamiji’s innocence, tapas had totally purified His consciousness, and He was ready to merge in that time. So that’s when Swamiji said He didn’t have any desire. Simply asked the Divine, “If you have any ordainment for me, I’m happy to do it as long as the body is available.”  For Himself, there was no desire. That ‘I’ also had disappeared. So, the same tests happened to us also, so wanting to test the humility that the Guru will have the power, who will ordain what you are supposed to do; we didn’t have any other desire. There was supreme peace, and that was it, and there was no desire to ask for anything else. Except the Divine that already was there, we are going to merge, there was nothing else to ask. So thus, this test happens. This was our experience, our Guru’s experience. So that’s why we have always conveyed this in interviews, in talks, in question and answers.

Question:  Thank You, Babaji. We’ll go to the next question. In Mysore, when you saw Swamiji’s photo for the first time, You fell in love with Swamiji. Then You said the dream came, and it shows how wonderfully the mind worked. Babaji, can You tell us the meaning of dreams? We have heard stories of deceased family members appearing in dreams and giving us messages that may seem relevant or appropriate for the living. Should we give importance to such dreams? Are dreams just a subconscious imagination of the mind or it can mean more than that sometimes?

Babaji Maharaj:  Though dreams are in the subconscious state, the mind’s application to the brain, it just creates, however if such a certain dream can transform you totally, that means the mind is highly blossomed, it is yearning to go back to the Self. So that is when certain dreams come, so that can transform you. Though you might consider it as imagination or the creation of the consciousness things, but a consciousness creates such amazing, wonderful visions for itself, through which it goes further elevation towards Divinity; it will not get attracted to the world. Like when Jangama sage appeared before Swamiji, it was the same science, same amazing technique, from itself it appeared, manifested. Like that was when Shiva said, “For twelve years you have to continue to do this tapas” when Swamiji wanted to go back. After three months it was very painful. The Jangama sage was standing at the gates of the graveyard and told, “In your destiny you have to do twelve years and that destiny has enabled us to manifest in this form. So, we have come and you will do that. Until then we won’t allow you to go anywhere else.”  That was such an amazing thing. Rarely in the creation would have happened, that Swamiji Himself bound Himself in such in such a way that a Guru appearing and would not allow Him to do anything else. “This is it what you have to do!”  The same thing – like for twenty years we were at the lotus feet of the Guru whose vibrations, whose grace, whose love, whose care, everything, did not allow us to think anything about the world, did not allow us to get dejected from the ashram life. It was always attractive, it was always wanting Swamiji only, wanting the Self-realization, ultimate truth, but never got attracted even for a moment. So that is the chatra-chaaya, means like an umbrella, like a father-mother, grace protected us. In the same way this also happens and the Divine appears. The grace protects if you are genuine and sincere. So that is why Swamiji used to tell, “First in the beginning itself, you need to be genuine and sincere, to go towards the Divinity, to attain the moksha or liberation or Self-realization.”  Like that, that genuity is always tested, even the last moment when the ‘I’ disappears and the merger has to happen. So, that was tested. Once you are done, the merger happens and that is Self-realization. You are one with the Divinity.

Question:  Thank You Babaji. The next question, with each reincarnation our mind loses potency. Babaji, please share with us why that is. Does this mean that with more reincarnation one goes through and if one does not achieve moksha, can they eventually reach a point where their mind has completely lost its potency? If so, how would those individuals be guided to the Truth or Divinity?

Babaji Maharaj:  See, one thing is very important. Due to imagination, the mind, consciousness spins. When it is spinning its potency of focus on remaining single-pointed gets disturbed. That was how… like as a concept in a story form Swamiji used to explain this. In the beginning of creation enormous amount of consciousness arose from the ultimate truth, which became the concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Brahma means the one who can create illusion but doesn’t get involved. And Vishnu also, the protection sustains that imagined thing. He keeps on sustaining so that the story can go on. And Shiva, the existence in total thoughtlessness, withdrawal back to the Self. So, this is the concept. Now, these three are considered as Divine trinities (trimurthies). That’s because they remained in the Self. They did not get involved into the imagination, creativity that they created. So, all the three remained in the Self of the ultimate truth. Thus, they became equivalent to Divine. We all worshiped the concept as the Divinity or God.

After that, next generation, Swamiji used to tell, if you pay attention, like the devatas came and the demons; these are all explained. They all lost the control of the Self, remaining in the Self also they lost because they became insecure, they wanted power, they wanted the things of the world. “Though it was heaven or hell or whatever it is, it was their own imaginations,” Swamiji used to tell. They wanted. So, then that means that potency of consciousness which created and remained as Divinity as Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, that became little corrupted, that got dropped from its potency. Then, life after life, life after life, by the time it has come to human being or animals or any other creatures, imagine a long distance in illusion that this has travelled by losing potency every time by becoming wide. So, even as a human being, not everybody’s mind can remain single-pointed. We call in this world some people who would have achieved very heights as genius people in all fields, science, technology, sports, spirituality, anywhere. So, that determination, that remaining concentrated and many are unable to do that one, only very few selected go into this, whoever has got that strong. So, that is how these things weakens.

But finally, one thing is guaranteed. A total destruction of the mind does not happen. It’s always there. After going long, long, long, long distance, when yearning comes and it’s enough for this world, it gets slapped and slapped and slapped in this world, is unable to have total peace, whatever it gains. Then an urge comes. Then it prays. It keeps shouting, feels like banging the head to the wall. “O God, is there some power who can save me? O, is there any Guru who can guide me, who can help me, who can inspire me? I want peace, I want peace.”  So, that is when the return journey starts. When the return journey starts, your ability to remain sincere, genuine to the goal that you want Supreme peace only; you will not compromise for anything, and you shall have faith, total faith in the Guru, total faith in yourself, total faith in the Divinity. So, these things are necessary. Otherwise, you will slip back again. It’s like snake and ladder. On the ladder, you start climbing up, getting elevated towards Divinity, but suddenly if some ego comes, some stupidity happens, then you will get dropped by the snake again back to square one. That is so important. That eligibility is always tested. Once you are ready to really go and you are totally detached for the appearance of the world of the universe which cannot give permanent happiness when it itself is not permanent, when you have the firm conviction, then you become eligible to go towards Divinity. So, that’s how briefly a concept has been explained, how this potency gets weakened, but one thing is guaranteed that the Divine will grace upon. It’s a matter of time. If it happened to me today, it had happened to Swamiji yesterday, some, all of you also, one day you will all get. But if you can be genuine, you won’t look back, you won’t compromise, it can happen quickly also. That all depends on your yearning, how much you really want it.

Like, you know, we all have read some stories, or different sages, Jesus, or other things, every story this is said – When some disciple came, he said “I want God.”  He took him to the river and dipped him inside. So, he was for a moment, for a few moments, he was very desperate to get the oxygen. “Agh haagh!” when he came up, “Thank God, I’m happy.” Then that Guru said, “Your yearning must happen. Just now when you were inside the water, you were desperate to get back to the air properly, the oxygen to survive yourself. When you are desperate, that much that you want God, then God will come to you. That will happen automatically.”  So, these are some of the points for this question very nicely that you asked.

Question:  Thank You Babaji. Babaji, the next topic is on renunciation. In your talk, Babaji, You said, “Stay anywhere and do sadhana.”  To become a yogi Swamiji did intense tapas for twelve years, and Babaji did intense tapas for five years. Is it then possible for us to achieve Self-realization by just doing one hour meditation daily together with sadhana practices? Or by doing this meditation, we are shaping our future so that after that we can elevate ourselves to different worlds with spiritual importance that will guide us to eventually do longer hours of meditation and slowly into tapas.

Babaji Maharaj:  I remember an example – once Sheshadri Swami of Tiruvannamalai, looking at a person, he was a monk, but he was roaming here and there without doing proper sadhana. He just got hold of his collar, he used to behave very funny like a mad person, but used to tell Upanishad words beautifully. Pointing at Ramana Maharishi, who was then doing tapas on the hills, the Virupakshi cave, and about himself he said, “See, look, my younger brother is earning hundred rupees. I earned about ten rupees. You at least earn about fifty paise. Why are you wasting your time moving, roaming here and there?”  That means, these hundred rupees means not rupees earning, the sadhana, amount of sadhana. Hundred rupees, he meant Ramana Maharishi was complete sadhana. So, when you want Self-realization, you will have to do that much of sadhana, important. But when we teach, we don’t want to panic anybody. “Ah, without doing twelve-year tapas, you cannot have any realization. Get out from here.”  No, no, no. No problem. You can have that one. Let us take you to first step. You learn to climb this first step, come down, you might fall down, again stand up, again go to that step. Once you learn the first step, then you feel inspired and slowly, slowly, you will start going one after the another and one day you will be on top of the mountain.

So, that is the importance. So, that is why we teach at least achieve one hour. Swamiji was a little bit tough if you all know that one. Day one itself, He used to insist “One hour you have to do. That is the instruction.”  There was no concession. We have become a little more lenient. The present-day generations, difficult for them to sit. Yesterday only I was talking to some about fourteen to fifteen people, senior citizens, they all agreed. “Babaji even to sit for five minutes it is difficult, You are talking about one hour.”  Imagine if a person is not used to, has never tried it, never practiced it, even sitting for one hour becomes so difficult. If we suddenly ask him to sit for twelve years of tapas, he won’t be ready.

  After two or three years, if at all forcibly he sits, he would like to get up and run away. Living in the ashram also is not easy, in total celibacy and totally dedicated, let go all the ego, serving the Master and be doing sadhana. So, these things are very tough life. If they are not ready for that one, after some time they would like to leave and go away. So, this is what happens. So, one needs to be ready for this. Otherwise, it will be difficult. Finally, means if you want to pass a highest test, you will have to dedicate that much of time to prepare for such competitive examinations. You want to become a country’s president or a prime minister, whatever it is, you have to prepare for that. You need to have that, what you call, eligibility, that quality that you are able to take care of the country properly, otherwise you will be a failure. If you say, “I can do only half an hour work, can I become the prime minister?”  No, it’s not possible. You will have to work so much of that. You want to become a yogi like us and then tell, “No, no, I cannot work. I want a whole day’s rest and I want to get up only at twelve o’clock. I cannot get up early morning.”  Mudiadi –  it is not okay. So, you cannot become a saint also; it’s not easy. You have to be like a mother and you have to be ready to give your time, dedicate yourself for others, for need.

 Like that, whatever, whenever you need to achieve the highest, you need to dedicate and be disciplined, give time, that much of. People talk that “I want Self-realization, I want to see God.”  But, are you ready? Are you ready? Do you think you are eligible? That is always tested. If they don’t take it, they will be a failure and they will go back and after some time, it will take more time. Swamiji used to tell “After fifty-five thousand life cycles, they will again come back to human life and then they might feel that yearning.”  So, that is very important, ‘yearning,’ how much you are ready to go for that one. So, like, my mother also asked me, “Do you think that you can give up your beautiful home and all of us, you don’t bother and you can go and stay in the Ashram? You will be all alone. We won’t be there and you won’t get any pampered things.”  I knew, I had fallen in love with Swamiji and that will sustain me. I will never look back. Whatever Swamiji does, even if He cuts me into pieces, I had decided that – “I want to be with Swamiji only, till the last breath of my life”. That’s what it is. So, that type of spirit must be there, so that is what is needed. Till then, you prepare yourself, first achieve one hour meditation. That one hour, first sitting stationary in the physical body is important. Now, every now and then you should not open eyes and do something, like that you are unable to sit, you go get out and come back, you switch off the video, go and come out; that is not the thing. First, practice that you can sit one hour. So, after many years of my putting in effort and trying to help everybody to do this type of meditation, giving them practical workshops, timings and like that, conducting retreats, now I can see many people round the world, all of you also are able to sit for one hour comfortably into the meditation. Now, the next challenge comes – in that one hour how much you are thinking, how much your mind was into chatterbox, how much that it could keep quiet is important. The day you achieve that you can keep quiet for one hour in your mind also, then you have achieved something, then you can look for the next thing. People want to take certificates, “O, should I increase, now? I can sit for one hour; should I increase for two hours, more hours?”  Things doesn’t come. First, have you achieved mental peace; mind is able to keep quiet for one hour? So, that is the idea of teaching all these things, necessary how much. There is no compromise, knowledge has no shortcuts.

Question:  Thank You Babaji. The next question. “What you have to give up and what you have to sacrifice is your mind’s ego, its attachment. Just be ready to accept it as it happens.”  Babaji, in most scenarios, it would be easier to accept things that happen even if it is not as planned or expected. However, sometimes life throws the biggest or most tragic events, something unimaginable like the death of a loved one. In those scenarios, what can we do to accept such events and move on from them Babaji?

Babaji Maharaj:  You see, mind of any human being is so egoistic. Very quickly, for many people I have seen, for small, small issues which can be simply ignored and let go, they are unable to let go of the things and ignore and they become upset and they are hurt and they want to react and they want to talk rudely, belittle someone and they cannot take it. Small, small issue, very small issue. If you look at it, it’s like a childish, baby stuff type of things, “O, this person’s behavior is childish, very childish.”  Like a child will be so agitated if its toy also is taken away. We may not bother about a small toy, we can always buy another one, but the child doesn’t know about it. For it that toy is so important, it won’t give up, it will put all its strength and cry and shout, whatever it can do to protect its thing, but when it grows up, we will laugh at our own childhood – for small, small things, how we used to be agitated, how we used to be troubled and we would be crying. But today it is so fun, we feel like laughing at ourselves.

Like that, for small, small things when you are able to let go and put up with it, accept it. Then slowly your capacity increases. One day when bigger challenges come in this world. Definitely, I agree with all of you, this world can be a very big challenge, this is a huge illusion. This is not a small type of illusion. This maya is not one single thought, this illusion is so manifested; imagine how much this can trouble. If just a two-hour cinema movie on the screen can be so troublesome for people, you get carried away emotionally, you might be crying, you might be panicked, anything, so imagine this cinema is such a huge long-time dream as Vashista talks, and very huge, done by a very higher consciousness, not by our mind. It can be so troublesome for anybody. That too, as you are talking when we lose our loved one, it can be so bad and we feel so bad, for anybody it can be happening. But practice, for small, small thing, if you don’t get agitated, if you let go, it’s okay, no problem. Today, it hasn’t happened today. Here, this person has sat on the dining table where I used to sit. No problem, I can sit in another seat. Many people get agitated and start fighting. “O, that is my seat, how come that you are sitting there?”  So, they do like that one, and they are unable to accept the things. So, like this, smaller things if we let go, gradually maturity comes and we can become more gracious in our behavior, more polished. That’s what is matured personality, we call it. Then, one day will come. Then when this tragedy also, when it happens, when you lose your dear one you will be able to take it, accept it as the truth, because it is the truth that happens in this world. It can happen to anybody. It is definitely painful. I have always told that when one loses, only that person knows how painful it can be. Others may not know it, but when everybody would face these things in their life, ask anybody; everybody would have faced these types of challenges in life, which have been very painful for them, very sad for them, unable to bear with, but yet slowly, slowly they would have recovered and looked for the life, go on, move on. What we call it as, we have to move on. So, that’s how you practice. In addition, when you practice spiritual practices like meditation seriously, every day, one hour when the mind is able to keep quiet then you would become such a matured person. You’ll be so gracious in your behavior. If a person does meditation for a hundred years and has not changed in his behavior at all, that means that person has not meditated properly. If you properly meditate, even one week, one month, one year, so much of changes in your personality will happen. You’ll be gracious, more polished in your behavior, you’ll be a mature person.

Same questioner:  Thank You, Babaji.

Question: Pranaams Babaji. Babaji, my question is, which is the major obstacle, like vasana? – like there are many vasanas like fear, greed, lust, anger, shame, vanity, confusion.

Babaji Maharaj:  Let me tell you, your own ego is the biggest vasana. Once that is cleared, the rest all falls in its place. The mind’s ego of ‘me and mine’, this is the main switch – ‘me and mine.’ So, then it succumbs to all type of vasanas. “O, this has to happen.”  It gets attracted to the sensory organs, it is unable to remain controlled, it has not done sadhana. The sadhana, not doing sadhana sincerely also is a greatest vasana, we have to understand. That’s important. When you do sadhana seriously, real technique application, then all vasanas can be… you can overcome them. This is important. That’s what you need to achieve.

Same Questioner:  And Babaji, one more thing. Like which quality, good quality can help us further on the sadhana, like the willpower or concentration or patience? Because sometimes I have some…

Babaji Maharaj:  All these combined. Your yearning, do you really want, are you ready to do it; and are you ready to undergo anything? So, there is no one name that you overcome this. That is not like that one. We should not be. The mind can take any shape; it can go into anything. That’s where simply, willpower or what it is, your real yearning, that you really want it. You are ready to give up anything for that one. Do or die, that’s what our Master taught us “You come out as a yogi from this room or your dead body must come out.”  When you are ready for that.

End of Questions and Answers

Babaji Maharaj now concludes the session.

   So wonderful that you all took out your precious time and came to be with us to practice the silence of the mind, meditation. And it means a lot to me. It’s enthusiastic for me to teach you all when you are ready to learn. Practice please!  Be serious. Every day – not just during the Zoom, every day you sit down. Then sitting one hour will be so comfortable for you. And then one day sitting one hour quietly in the mind also will be very, very comfortable. It will be just like eating jalebis [Indian sweets]. It will come like that one. Practice!  All the best. May Swamiji bless all of you.

   Very lovely questions were asked, giving me an opportunity to express my opinion, my experiences, what my Guru taught me. Bye-bye to all of you.

End of Session