0:00 Intro
0:07 A single pointed awareness feels closed and focused, other times in nature I get an expansive feeling, is there a point where this comes together?
1:20 Sometimes in meditation a heightened sensitivity to the senses is experienced.
2:45 How does the perception of the world change when one becomes a Yogi?
4:00 Do we have free will?
5:07 Is an accident really an accident? Could it have been avoided?
7:04 Does the Divine also guide us in our actions?
7:59 Will the illusion continue whether our attention is on it or not?
8:55 What is the meaning of the term ‘prarabdha’?
10:55 If you are not mentally affected by destiny, does it exist?
11:44 How to have vairagya, detachment?
14:32 So a Yogi does not have any resolutions, it’s only if someone prays that the Grace will come?
15:08 Is there any truth in the saying “You can overcome destiny with your wisdom”?
16:46 What does Babaji mean by ‘the more you meditate, the more you become universal’?
17:48 A Yogi does not create any new karma and yet you create a more positive destiny for all of us.
20:12 How did Babaji cultivate vairagya when Babaji was doing sadhana at the Dehradun Ashram?
21:51 How did the idea of impermanence of the world sit in the mind?
24:17 What is the difference between death and time?
24:45 So you die due to time?
26:56 How does Babaji experience time?
28:11 What is the optimal way to do karma yoga?
35:32 So the form of the activity is not important?
36:02 How does the end goal of liberation not become a selfish desire when doing service?
38:51 Does a Self-Realized Master who doesn’t come back to the world to teach still help the world in some way?
40:38 Ambaji, what was the change you observed in Babaji throughout the Tapas?
44:55 What causes the change in a person when they are in the presence of a Yogi?

DSM Ashram Meditation Retreat 2024: Day 8, Morning Q&A with Babaji

Question:

A single pointed awareness feels closed and focused, other times in nature I get an expansive feeling, is there a point where this comes together?


Shri Babaji:

Expanding in the illusory world is different, it becoming single-pointed is different. First you have to achieve single-pointedness, then it merging with the Self it expands its consciousness. That is of the truth, not of this illusory world. So, your effort should be simply without bothering anything else, make it single-pointed, means bring it as close as you can. Sometimes you have seen when you are trying to bring the eyeballs, sometimes if they are away, the vision also is longer. If they come closer, the vision comes closer to you. So, that is what you have to practice, coming closer and single-pointed.

First when it becomes single-pointed, it gives up its imagining effects or absorbing any imprints, all. That is how it gets purified. Then it merges and expands as all-pervaded. Means from a human mind, it merges with the space, finally.

Question:

Sometimes in meditation a heightened sensitivity to the senses is experienced.

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, definitely, as you progress spiritually, one thing I can say, you’d love more serenity, quietness. Even a melodious sound also may appear a bit violent to your mind. So, this type of thing happens. And even the most beautiful scenario also, disturbing restlessness. Because gradually the mind has seen that, which after seeing, nothing else is as beautiful. Sometimes just to be with the people of the world I tell “I enjoy this, I enjoy that.” But actually, nothing is there for me to enjoy in the world. Even the most beautiful scenario also, if anybody tells, in my mind I tell “I have seen that much more beautiful than this.” So, this beautiful nature is just nothing. It’s a part of micro speck illusion of what it has imagined. So, that is the note that spiritually mind is becoming more purified. It is able to enjoy that serenity of itself.

Question:

How does the perception of the world change when one becomes a Yogi?

Shri Babaji:

That totally changes. But we don’t talk, so that people don’t misunderstand me much about it. Like for example, I have seen the real Swamiji who is beyond the body’s limits. That is Swamiji, that beauty. So, the body itself may not be that attractive that it used to be fifty years ago or twenty five years ago or before the Realization. Because the highest beauty has been seen. Swamiji, we have seen Swamiji as He is. The body is an overlapped identification. So, you all get to see reflected overlap of Babaji. That itself might appear as very beautiful due to vibrations or glow, any such thing. But the day you are able to see Babaji Himself, then this would appear as a very insignificant micro speck, simply.

Question:

Do we have free will?

Shri Babaji:

There is really no conclusion between the destiny or free will. But you must apply a strong thinking power. That will materialize in due course of time. Though for a while it may appear you are destined to come here, but in efforts you thought of coming here and you got up and started preparing, and you are here. This is both the combination of willpower and destiny. Destiny has made you to have that willpower and come here. The willpower gave you that destiny to be here. Like that it goes.

So, Swamiji as He used to tell, you just do your job, destiny will do its job.

Question:

Is an accident really an accident? Could it have been avoided?

Shri Babaji:

Accident also is a prarabdha. You see, you are induced to go like that, or sometimes even though you never wanted, innocently you might be getting trapped in an accident. So, that was the destiny that worked. So, with a free will also you are going and you met with an accident, that type it means. So, both have worked there together. The destiny made you to go there, induced you to have that free will to go like that. And your free will induced you to go like that and meet with your destiny. This is a very peculiar thing to understand, but both go together. Not only one thing is responsible.

The reason is, to teach, you have to apply your free will always. Like, wherever you think there is likely to be some danger, this is not proper, you must exercise your will power and try that no harm comes to you. Protect yourself. Like for example, you are driving a car on the road. You need to be alert from your side, follow all the rules of the traffic and the speed limits and that mentally too you are alert. In spite of that, if somebody else hits, you are helpless. But advice is, from your side you try to be as alert as possible. Don’t bother about the destiny at that moment.

Question:

Does the Divine also guide us in our actions?

Shri Babaji:

You see, always you have such an imagination; divine guides. Divine guides means a separate personality sitting and He is guiding you. That is coming from within only, that guidance. That guidance is coming. But if your mind is better purified, it will be able to catch that guidance properly. Then you will be more alert. Otherwise you are likely to brush aside and commit mistakes. If your mind is not pure, it is corrupted with hundreds and millions of thoughts, like that. So, that type of thing.

So, if you meditate, you will also understand everything is divine guided only. Without that, nothing happens. So, then everything appears to be divine.

Question:

Will the illusion continue whether our attention is on it or not?

Shri Babaji:

You see, a seeker is advised not to keep imagining like that. When this body dies, that’s it. If we keep worrying, “When this body dies, will this ashram continue or not, will there be somebody or will somebody come and steal this idol?” If I keep worrying, then I will have to come back in some other life, some other incarnation and come and keep dusting here, something like that happens. You just bother to get rid of your own imaginations as soon as possible. This is the highest recommended goal – so that you are aware of the divinity that is the real truth of existence.

Question:

What is the meaning of the term ‘prarabdha’?

Shri Babaji:

Prarabdha is the destiny what we were talking. Karma is the free will things. They both go as a combination if you try to observe carefully. Somewhere you would have willed to go on the road and an accident happens. When a thing happens, then that comes to be known as destiny: “You are a destiny to undergo”. Before that, you just want to think in any way. Like, whatever… she [previous questioner] was telling some divine was guiding. But she was destined to survive. Her husband was destined to meet with an accident. That’s what it is finally. Means you consider that as the divine’s guidance or divine’s will. But many people, duality people may misunderstand; why the divine guided her to be safe and her husband not to be safe. No answer, no conclusive answer. That was his prarabdha, this was her prarabdha, like that. Many times it happens in life.

Actually, difficult to give a conclusive answer. We have to understand in some way “This was how it worked, this was how it worked.” Some people call it destiny. Some people call it divine guidance. Some people call it luck favoring, anything. But that is that. The truth is that. For that what you are going to tell: some people call it microphone, some people call it simply phone, some people call it cell phone, some people call it mobile phone. That is it. Either you call it as a cell phone or a mobile phone. That thing is that that thing, finally.

Question:

If you are not mentally affected by destiny, does it exist?

Shri Babaji:

Mentally if you are not affected, simply things go on. Otherwise every moment if you are affected, every moment is a destiny that’s working. That we try to teach: if you can be more positive in your mind, slowly and slowly when you become more concentrated, when it touches its higher consciousness, that can materialize. A positive destiny can happen to you. So, try to be as positive as possible. Or finally, one day get rid of both; neither negative nor positive. You get liberated.

Question:

How to have vairagya, detachment?

Shri Babaji:

See, as we are all discussing about free will and destiny, this is always not guaranteed that what we want to happen, the thing will happen in that way. Both places it was the divine guidance. One did not meet the accident, another met with the accident. The body got hurt for one, another body did not get hurt. But a duality devotional person might try to think this was divine guidance, but not the other. But whereas the other is also, equally. Everything is happening according to destiny; that destiny is divinity.

Thus, no universal guarantee that always whatever you want, that thing will only happen. So, recommended if you want to get rid of this, so that you don’t get involved into either this or that – if you want to be with one thing, you are going to face the other also. Means, happiness. If you get involved with the happiness of this world, unhappiness will definitely follow. If you are with the unhappiness of the world, happiness will also follow.

So, that is the principle of this creation or duality. So, if you think it’s enough for you, you are tired of this or this, or this or this, unpredictable, you don’t know what’s going to happen – if you want to get rid, liberation from both. You are safe and existence, your own real Self, that’s what is recommended; you go for your real Self that is the permanent entity at all times. Then you don’t have to worry about either the free will or the destiny at all. Both are not there for you. You don’t will anything to happen, so there is no destiny for you at all. You exist in yourself.

So, like this, we try to advise – if anybody can catch, they catch. Otherwise, nobody will catch. If they cannot catch it, it will delay. They will get involved. When they are tired from both… that takes time for anybody to come to that level.

Question:

So, a Yogi does not have any resolutions, it’s only if someone prays that the Grace will come?

Shri Babaji:

It is known as an automatic divine activity. What we teach, you have faith in the name of Babaji or your Guru. That faith will protect you. Many times, if you have read in saints’ lives also, whether Jesus or anybody, sometimes they have given the statement: when somebody told, “By your grace, by your blessings,” then Jesus told me, “No, your faith is the thing which worked.”

Question:

Is there any truth in the saying “You can overcome destiny with your wisdom”?

Shri Babaji:

There is really no meaning for it. Until it doesn’t happen, it is not destiny. Then whatever happens, that you have to consider a destiny. So, overcoming that doesn’t arise at all. But usually the duality people, overcoming the destiny means, “Let there be no calamity, no troubles, no danger” – that they consider as vidhi. So that is the philosophy, highest truth when you are going for that – so these things lose their significance. That’s what I’m trying to tell: both were destiny. She was destined not to meet the accident, her husband was destined to meet the accident. Destiny is destiny. But we try to think that it shouldn’t have happened at all. So, that’s what is duality. Already you are born. The very truth that you are born in this world is a vidhi. And finally to do Tapas, so that you don’t have to be reborn ever. You exist in the Self. That is what is the final victory.

Question:

What does Babaji mean by ‘the more you meditate, the more you become universal’?

Shri Babaji:

So, when you meditate more, your mind goes on merging with the universal consciousness. More it becomes purified. And thus automatically unknown to you, you will start visualizing or recognizing a scene, the same truth that which is in your body everywhere also. So, then there is no question that you will dislike anybody, have any hatred or any such thing. From outside you will be playing the same game of this world, but inside you will become more universal in your consciousness. You will start seeing divine only everywhere, that’s the meaning. As the mind becomes purified.

The mind doesn’t become purified, it can think only of the body as the personality. Otherwise, it starts becoming more universal.

Question:

A Yogi does not create any new karma and yet you create a more positive destiny for all of us.

Shri Babaji:

In my mind or in my efforts, I am not actually creating anything. Somehow the divine worked. You see, in simpler language, for this type of retreat to happen, single-handedly I couldn’t have done anything. I can only sit; anybody comes for some time, they meditate or go, that’s all. But to organize all your stay, food for you all, think of everything, receive you all, clean up the rooms and see that everything is all right, a team is needed. Without the team, single-handedly not possible to work. Like that, the destiny, the divinity worked. So that divinity, destiny of all of you collectively came together and created a Guru for yourself. Collectively, all of you had the destiny to have a Guru. So, the divine blessed it to happen in such a way that all of you got attracted to come and be here. And a team has been working from Ambaji, Javier, Geordie, Satya, Bharati – everybody is working. And you are also helping, contributing. So, all of you are involved in this. So, that’s how things are happening.

So, in this I don’t have any role that I have created anything at all. Some higher consciousness is working. That’s what you will realize practically when you meditate. Even for one hour when you are able to keep the mind quiet, then slowly that doership disappears within you. And you will realize some automatic divine activity happening; it’s going on and on and on. Finally, I wouldn’t give any conclusive definition “This is how it happened.” You also just watch like me. Leave it to the divine.

Question:

How did Babaji cultivate vairagya when Babaji was doing sadhana at the Dehradun Ashram?

Shri Babaji:

I prayed to God and every moment He was slapping me. He never allowed me to get attracted to the world even for a single moment. He took care, just like a mother would slap the child if it tries to eat ice cream unnecessarily. Like that, He was pricking me all the time. He was so alert with me, He looked after me so much. I had to be alert and I couldn’t go restless ever.

This is one thing, but for your understanding, the impermanence had sat in the mind thoroughly. Impermanence – couldn’t forget. Anything I saw, that type of madness had occurred; “This is here and this may not be here, you never know. This body is here; this may not be here, you never know” – that type of thought always helped me in those days also. This Ashram, I am here, tomorrow I may not be here. So, everything is impermanent. I am here because Swamiji has told me to be here. Swamiji may ask me to go away somewhere else, or He may ask me to get out of the Ashram. Nothing is in my hand. I am not the master anywhere. I am only a servant. So, thus the vairagya was always there: didn’t get attracted to anything to sit that I am going to miss that thing.

Question:

How did the idea of impermanence of the world sit in the mind?

Shri Babaji:

It sat like that, the ‘death’ thought. “Samprapthe Sannihite Kali, Nahi Nahi Rakshati Dukrin Karane”. And I thought, “That is really true. Our forefathers died, our great grandfather died, our grandfather died, our father died. Nothing came to the rescue. The same is going to happen to me also. But if the mind is purified, that is the only salvation.” So this truth sat in the mind, I couldn’t forget it. Not that simply when I was listening to the master I remembered, once I went out, I forgot – no. I couldn’t forget ever, whether I listened to the song or not.

I used to skip singing quietly when I was alone, moving around. When I sang, the strongest vibrations was making me thrilled; hair raising thrill always was there. So, the vairagya was together, it was always there. So, I never missed or felt disappointed for anybody, if anybody behaved in any way. There was no disappointment. I used to think, the frog is eaten by the snake, and the eagle takes the snake. Eagle meets with the death one day. So, death is the final authority which will take away everything.

If you see this world, as Buddha said, one depends on the other, appears to be. One keeps eating the other. So, survival of the fittest type, the Buddha also spoke, that is the philosophy. Humans also, when they want to live, they try to hit at the other and then it to sit here. So that’s what happens. Finally, when you have the vairagya, that’s it – we are not going to lose anything. I am going to be that ‘I’.

So, these type of things were helpful. All the time I was like that, quietly I was dusting or cooking or chapati-making, anything. All the time.

Question:

What is the difference between death and time?

Shri Babaji:

Time is, this body is born and it dies – in between is recognized as time. So that’s how; the time is infinite, but simply we have to calculate. A certain time that it was born, after a certain time it dies.

Question:

So you die due to time?

Shri Babaji:

No conclusive answer. We see it in the passing of the time, the body becomes 10, 20, 30, 40, 70, becomes young childhood, young teenage, middle age and old age. That’s what we get to see. But actually why and how it happens nobody knows, no conclusive answer. Simply for us it appears by the passing of the time; you are 5 year old and you become 50 year old one day. That’s what appears for all of us in the world. But that need not be the conclusive answer.

The creation; creation’s rule is like that. Means anything that appears will have to disappear. So that is the matter of time. You imagine anything in your mind, all the time in one go it’s not going to remain like that. You keep changing. Your own mind keeps changing. So, thus your own mind creates time which does not exist. Making that time as an illusion, it makes an appeared thing to disappear in your own mind. It won’t stay into one imagination. It keeps changing. Stories also keep changing. Like you keep asking, “Should I give a break of half an hour, Babaji? Or would you like to continue meeting people for three hours?” Again you will come back, “For three hours would you like to meet? Or you want me to give a gap? Third time you ask, fourth time you ask. Mind becomes fickle like that one.

So, that is a fact, that is how this time factor has come. But time doesn’t exist. It’s only in imagination. The appearance disappears. That is what is known as illusion.

Question:

How does Babaji experience time?

Shri Babaji:

In the consciousness there is no time. But for sake of the worldly things I have to watch and observe. I practice that skill. While you keep asking question after question, question after question, sometimes I try to look at it quietly, quickly. Just to tell you its lunch time for you, otherwise you go on asking questions. I can be answering until four o’clock.

Because other factors are there. Those people who are working, they are working in the kitchen, they have cooked and the ladies are there who have prepared there. And they have to bring that one there. So, they will become free only when you all would have eaten and everything is winded up all. Then they get some time to rest. Otherwise they will have to be waiting with all the food. “Oh, when is Babaji going to finish the question and answer? When are they going to come on eat?” Until then they won’t eat the food. So, considering all these factors I have to imagine the time and have a look at it. Then remind, “Enough, Javier, it’s time now.” If you don’t remind.

Question:

What is the optimal way to do karma yoga?

Shri Babaji:

So, when you are serving, just serve for sake of serving without any expectations of any fruits. Means, another example for this; you have a boss. When the boss asks “Take the chair and keep it there.” You don’t think why you should be taking the chair and keep it there. You will simply take it and keep it without thinking. Then you are not bothered about the results. “Why the chair is not here? Why it has to be there?” – you won’t bother. Simply the boss has asked and you do it. You don’t have any doership. “Oh, it’s my responsibility. I must take care that this chair doesn’t move from here.” You are not the master, you are only a servant.

So, in that bhava if you do all karmas of service, then no reservation of what type of service you will do, what type of service not. There was this boy who stayed with me. When I asked “Would you like to learn some accounts and work?” he refused. “No, I don’t want to do this one. I will just come and attend to you a little bit. Then I want to be free. I want to be meeting my friends, I don’t want to be deprived of those things.” So, these things are not service. And they don’t achieve any yoga at all. They just work for whatever suits them. That’s what we call with a personal agenda. So, that doesn’t give you a yoga of the mind. It will drag you towards the world.

The day you are tired and you… suddenly, one day he started telling “Throughout my life, I have to be doing only this? I don’t get anything, I don’t get promoted?” I say, if you develop the skills, if you become eligible, you will get it. This is such a field. If you want to become a monk, you can become a monk, you can promote yourself, but you have to be ready. Then you want to give a talk like me, you have to learn at least. If you don’t at least get Self-Realized, at least you should have the thorough knowledge of scriptures of what I teach. You practice that one, then one day I will allow you to give a talk. Then you practice. And one time you want to take the questions like I take, if you think that you are deprived of all these things, you can take the questions. Finally, that boy went away.

So, that is not the karma. Karma  yoga is, you should not have any reservation. I never thought this in the 20 years, “Is my life going to be only looking after this mentally challenged boy? Why Swamiji has given me this task? He has not asked me to sit down or do Tapas or any such thing.” I never thought that one. I will give an example of how I had surrendered to the master. There was this one monk from another Ashram. He came to our Ashram once, it was in mid-80s. He also belonged to this Karnataka state. So, he could speak in Kannada language. He discovered that I am from Karnataka and I could speak Kannada language – he was very happy. I thought he was a very narrow-minded person; just on seeing a Kannada person, he is becoming excited. If he had met a Hindi person, he was not excited. What is this? It is a narrow-minded thinking. But he was very happy. He said, “Look, because you are from Karnataka, I can teach you Sanskrit language. You come. Usually, I don’t teach to people”, he said.

I said, “Look, I can come, but I am dedicated to this Ashram, my Guru, I am a servant of my Guru. Whenever I am free from this Ashram, I will come. Because once I start learning, I have to accept you as a master, as a Guru. But you must know that this is my first primary master, Shiva Balayogi – you will be the secondary. I will give priority; suppose Swamiji comes for a month or two, I may not be able to come to classes. You must not get annoyed.” He agreed. Then once or twice, I went. One day, he came. At that time, what happened; one of Swamiji’s lady devotees, she was a royal family lady, her children were studying in the public school. She wanted me to accompany and be of assistance to her. So, I had to do that because Swamiji wanted me to be helpful. So, in the autorickshaw she sat, along with her, I had to sit. He was furious at this.

Next day, when I went to his place to learn, he said, “What type of ashram is there? You being a brahmachari, means in celibacy, you must not be looking at the face of an woman at all. You should not be sitting with a woman. You must maintain a long distance, some meters” he was telling. He was a monk. And he said, “If you be like this, you will not be eligible to learn this Sanskrit language. You are not fit to do that one.” I simply told, “Look. If this body was born out of my father’s womb, I would have listened to you. Unfortunately for you, fortunately for me, this body was born out of the womb of a woman, my mother. So, I cannot dislike or hate just because I am a brahmachari – I don’t believe in such things. Simply that it is the mind which thinks”, I tried to tell him. “If the mind thinks it is the mother…” like Ramakrishna said, “Look at the feet of a woman, all evil thoughts will fly away; that is the teachings we received and we saw that one – “I don’t see why a woman should not be coming to the Ashram.”

All are sitting; if somebody comes and criticise me, “Oh, this Babaji receives women devotees also. This is not an Ashram, he is not a yogi, what can I say?” I said, “I am happy to be dusting my Ashram of my Guru. There is no need for me to learn Sanskrit language. I will consider I am incarnated only to dust the Ashram of my Guru.” Satisfied, I came peacefully.

So, that was my attitude while doing karma, any karma. I had the firm faith, “Even just the dusting could give me Liberation, there is no need that for Liberation I have to learn Sanskrit only. It is the mind”, I had that firm conviction. So, the day when you have this firm conviction: “Tomorrow if I ask, Nara, you go out and pluck the grass.” Simply you go and pluck the grass without thinking, you are a karma yogi. So, like that, how the karma yoga happens.

Question:

So, the form of the activity is not important?

Shri Babaji:

It is the mind, how you are going to take it. So, that is what converts. Means you are meditating just to quieten the mind. While doing karma also if the mind accepts, it is quiet. Same thing is happening. So thus, there also meditation can happen provided you follow the technique.

Question:

How does the end goal of liberation not become a selfish desire when doing service?

Shri Babaji:

Some points, every creature, every human or everybody has a right to be free from a bondage, to be independent. So, if you look into this body and your life, you will realize that you are not independent at all. First thing, though you were something else, you came to be known through this body as yourself. That itself, you have binded yourself. Something is binded. And then, whatever the body needs, you are binded by that. Otherwise, you could have remained independent. Like the divine is totally independent. Doesn’t need this body for its survival. Doesn’t need anything that the body needs. That type of thing when you realize. So, it is not selfishness. You have a right to escape the bondage.

Means, if one country invades another country, why that is considered that we have lost our independence? Because when another country comes, they bring their culture and they would like to invade our culture and destroy our culture, our way of life, our beliefs, everything they would like to destroy and teach what they believe. We believe in worshipping God, in doing meditations, they might believe in disco dance. They would like to destroy our beliefs and make us do the disco dance. That is the reason we don’t want to be ruled by another country, we want to be independent. So how can this be a selfishness? Simply because he wants to smoke, I don’t want to smoke. I want to be independent. How can he tell “Oh, you are very selfish, you don’t want to smoke. You come and smoke.” So that is not it.

So, that is what we all need to understand. We have been trying to discuss, if we meditate, people may think you are just meditating for yourself. You are trying to liberate yourself, right? For yourself. But once you liberate yourself, you will be able to help tens and thousands of people to get liberated. It will be possible. If you yourself have binded, not liberated, then how can you create awareness, how can you be helpful to others? If they ask any such one or two questions, Clifford will ask you some cross questions, you will be confused, “Oh Clifford, I don’t know what you are asking.” [laughs]

Question:

Does a Self-Realized Master who doesn’t come back to the world to teach still help the world in some way?

Shri Babaji:

To a certain extent. A simple language; first thing what my Guru said, “If you cannot help the world, at least do not bother. When you don’t bother somebody that itself is a great help.” First thing, in that way. But it is definitely believed when you connect yourself to the divinity, your prayers will go a long way for the welfare of the world. The vibrations will follow.

However, very few will have a mission. That’s what also my Guru used to tell – to come and live in the midst of human beings and try to make them understand is a very uphill task for a Guru. About vairagya, what he was talking, about Liberation, about the Ultimate Truth, about it is not selfishness. So, these things in the society when you go also you may have to face; some ten people might make fun, “Oh, Trass you are just doing it for yourself, oh, you come and drink like us. We are all drinking for each other. You also drink.” Whatever they do, they don’t accept it as selfishness. If they don’t like what you are doing, they try to brainwash you, “It is selfishness.” The world is like that, very cunning and clever.

So, whatever they are doing is the right, they think. Everybody is selfish if you try to see; the whole world, entire universe, everybody. They set one set of justice for themselves, another set of justice for others.

Question:

Ambaji, what was the change you observed in Babaji throughout the Tapas?

Ma Ambaji:

Actually somebody asked… This is not my quote. This quote is from Ramana Maharishi, from Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi, because somebody asked me about Baba’s physical condition before Tapas and after the Tapas. And especially those people who saw Baba before Tapas, they used to wonder that Baba was tall, robust, like a very strong man. He used to do weights and everything, used to do a regular exercise. But when He went into the Tapas, His body and the body muscles started getting very soft, very gentle like a child, you know? His body… not only His mind changed, His body, His personality, everything changed. And over the time, His body became very vulnerable, you know? Very gentle, very soft.

So, somebody asked me, and I quoted the same thing, what happens to a small thatched hut, mud hut, when an elephant enters into the hut? It’s a hut, thatched hut: If an elephant enters what will happen to that? The Bhagavan gave this analogy. This Brahman, this Ananta, Ananta Brahman entered that body. So, what is going to happen? This elephant, giant space entered into that small frame. Of course, it’s going to be depleted, it’s going to fall apart. And that happens. That’s why in Tapas, somebody loyal has to be around to take care of you, to look after you, to pay attention to your every physical thing from a scratch, from a tiny scratch to a mosquito bite. It’s not easy. That’s what happened to Baba also. See? Satyabeya is three years older, but Baba looks much older than Satya uncle. The way He walks. Sorry to say, but You are an old man.

So, everything changed in His physiology also. His total physiology changed after His Tapas. And that is not my answer. That’s the answer Bhagavan gave, because that day one of Bhagavan’s childhood friends, when he heard about Ramana Maharishi, he came to see Bhagavan. And when he entered, he was looking everywhere for his friend. But he could not imagine that the same friend, his childhood friend is the Brahmin Swami. So, somebody said, “That’s Ramana Maharishi.” Bhagavan’s childhood name was Venkatramana. So, he said, “Venkatana, what happened to you? You look like an old man.” He said, “Yes, I am an old man.” He said, “What happened to your body? You were a tall, robust, healthy man. You look like a shattered man”. He said, “What will happen when an elephant enters into a thatched hut? Same thing happened to me.” So, he was bewildered; he didn’t understand.

So, it comes in his letters. When he spent more time in the Ashram, he learned a lot of things, did his practice. Then years, years later, like 20 years later, Bhagavan’s body dropped, and then he wrote back. He said, “When I had my first experience, first glimpse, then I understood what He said that day; what happens to a thatched hut when an elephant enters into it.”

Question:

What causes the change in a person when they are in the presence of a Yogi?

Ma Ambaji:

You all would have noticed that when you around Baba, your mind automatically recedes, the thoughts recede. I have met so many people, they say that before they come in front of Baba they have thousands of questions. But when they sit in front of Baba, their mind goes silent and blank, they can’t think about the questions. And the reason is, the mind is always like a bee, “Bzzzz”, going like this. But when they come in the proximity of a Jnani or an Atma Jnani, they come and sit there, the vibration and the aura around that person is so strong that their own vasanas, or their own rajasic, tamasic tendencies, they subside. And that’s the aura of a Jnani that takes over, and purification already happens.

So that’s why from old times, that story of Jada Bharatha, when he becomes a deer. Even after becoming a deer, he used to run to the Ashram to be in the presence of other Jnanis. So that’s the mind. If the mind is sattvic, pure, it will automatically run towards the… If the mind is getting more rajasic, tamasic, it will be so difficult to sit here, sit in His presence. We’ll be thinking, “Oh, should we be going here…” You know, you’ll be all planning about everything else and sitting in Their company will be the most tortuous thing. And that is the condition of the mind, the mind’s purification is a long way. It’s not possible.

But sometimes, you know, some people, when you are in the presence of a Jnani, it’s like the homeopathic medicine. Have you heard about homeopathy? The homeopathic treatment has a course. When you start taking, it brings out all the symptoms first. You know, all the symptoms erupts first. And then it starts working. Slowly it takes over and all the symptoms start going away. So, a presence of a Jnani or a yogi is like taking the homeopathy. It goes slow, it goes slow, but then it brings out all your vasanas, “Pffum”. All your vasanas come onto the topmost. And that is the point, that is the most challenging time when all your vasanas are… it’s like a compressed gas cylinder, it’s ready to burst out. If you have a self-control, you will control, or you will get carried away. You will burst. You can’t keep yourself. So, it’s just like homeopathic medicine treatment. And all your symptoms, all your vasanas, all your tamas, you know, whatever we are holding, all the tamas comes up and it destroys our own personality. And you know, we are the biggest loser the day we decide, “Okay, I have nothing to do.”

Because He is not going to lose anything. You go, someone else will come. It’s like a well of nectar, you know? Whoever is searching will come. They will be there. And who will say that, “No, this is not a nectar. This is a poison.” Is that not the loser? They will go on, go on, go on. I feel sad for whoever thinks like that. It’s only one chance we all get. We all get that chance and choice is ours, we make the choice. And if we make the right choice… we may not understand when we are around, but when we go away, the world is, that’s why it is called ‘crocodile’. No peace anywhere. You go anywhere onto the earth, or onto the moon, or in the space. The story of Trishanku, even if you’re hanging in this space, there also it’s not peace. Because the peace, everything is right here.

End of Session