0:00 Intro
0:07 How can one look for the Guru inside one’s heart?
0:57 Is the heart related to the feelings?
1:10 If God, Guru and Self are one, what is the external Guru in a physical body?
2:42 After becoming Self-Realized, do you still have to be watchful of the mind?
3:03 How to discern whether it is my mind that is making me suffer more, or whether it is a test from the Divine?
4:30 When the mind slips in meditation and we get into thinking, then something reminds us that we are supposed to be meditating – what is it that reminds us?
6:10 Does it mean our connection is always there?
6:26 If we have an issue with somebody and it is playing over and over, and my ego is troubling, can it help to look at your photo?
8:07 Some people say meditation is a selfish practice. What is the simplest response to this?
9:26 Is everything we do in life for selfish reasons only?
10:07 Basically we are not living their way, so they start accusing us.
10:48 Is the intention the same for everybody; we all want happiness?
11:53 Why don’t people want to go for the supermarket, is it because they don’t have patience?
12:21 What does Babaji mean by this “once in a life-cycle opportunity”?
18:29 How to avoid falling into impatience and maintain a seriousness when it is so difficult to achieve Self-Realization in this short time-frame we have?
23:20 What does Babaji mean by ‘falling in love’ as people might mistake that for what is experienced in relationships.
24:48 What is the difference between love and faith?
25:17 Does love just happen naturally?
26:02 How is one attracted to the Guru?
26:41 Could Babaji talk about what Swamiji meant by “God and Guru are your only true friends”.
27:14 Is true unconditional love the same as Self-Realization or is Self-Realization beyond that?
27:39 What happens Babaji encounters another Self-Realized being?
27:55 You wouldn’t see the lineage of that being?
29:17 Has Babaji been to the Kumbha Mela?
29:54 How does wisdom come when Self-Realization is achieved?
30:38 How was Swamiji so intelligent and knowledgeable about the world, without having attended school?
31:31 Do you need a Self-Realized Master to get Realised, or can you achieve it with your faith and meditation?
32:44 What was Babaji’s last experience of the duality before Self-Realization?
33:31 So an experience of the Eternal Self happens before the Divinity appears?
34:09 Does one need special blessings from different Gurus in your spiritual lineage?
35:42 So in terms of how a lineage functions, is it just the Guru that is closest to you rather than someone who is far back, communicating to you?
38:13 How not to confuse belief with faith?
38:50 Babaji has said that whatever you visualise, you will see that, for instance in Babaji’s Tapas He was taken to other worlds. What is the essence of this?
40:47 The poet Kabir Das needed a Guru, that shows that we all need a Guru.
41:26 It was completely dark with black out curtains in the room where Babaji did Tapas. Was this for the whole 5 years or was it adopted later on?
42:02 Swamiji did His Tapas out in the open with the sun and everything?
42:25 For Swamiji it was also very difficult in the sunlight?

Discourse: In Quest of Truth – 2024 DSM Retreat
Day 7, Morning Q&A
Recorded: February 2024

Start of Session

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   How can one look for the Guru inside one’s heart?

Babaji Maharaj:   Feel that the Master is everywhere.  When you remember He is in you, He is there, the inner soul.  Because the Divine is all pervaded, and the Master is merged with the Self, means He is also all pervaded.  So, you have to learn, practice and cultivate to see Him.  Whether I am physically in front of you or not, you always try to feel Him, then you will feel the connection.  You will be able to experience that the Master is watching you; incidents, circumstances, situations that get created, You will see the Master’s hand in everything.  Like that.

Question:   Is the heart related to the feelings?

Babaji Maharaj:   Mind’s feelings is spiritually symbolized as heart, actually, that’s what it is. 

Question:   If God, Guru and Self are one, what is the external Guru in the physical body?

Babaji Maharaj:   It’s all the same.  Because now, you see, you also have a body; for that body to receive a communication, you need another body.  So thus, if a Self-realized Master is there, it’s like a bonus.  If the Master is able to talk the language that you understand and understand the language that you can talk, isn’t it that all these things are a plus, bonus points?  Finally, you have to remember the Master in your mind.  So, that will take you introvert to the ultimate source of Divinity.  Then you will realize that the same Divine is everywhere as the Master.  The Master is everywhere like that.  So, it is all the same, finally.  From things that’s coming from inside, things coming from here, you will see.  So, that if it is a Self-realized Master.  Otherwise, if the Master is not Self-realized, so there will be a temporary block of illusion, a curtain is there.  So, then likely to be confused.  But then, you need to have that faith.  That’s why faith is the final frontier.  When you have faith, nobody can cheat you; your God is always with you. 

Question:   After becoming Self-realized do you still have to be watchful of the mind?

Babaji Maharaj:   It’s by practice; automatically it will be watchful. Just like you learn how to bake a bread and then go on baking every day, so that type; attention is always on that one only. 

Question:   How to discern whether it is my mind that is making me suffer more, or whether it is a test from the Divine?

Babaji Maharaj:   Though it is the mind, to imagine like that is recommended, because that is the criteria of the bhakti marga, devotional path, then your imagination is the highest; slowly you practice to consider everything that is happening as the Divine’s test, the Divine, the Divine.  So, thus, your mind is picking up the Divinity within itself, with imagination, it becomes absorbed, totally absorbed into that one, overwhelmingly absorbed.  So, that is beneficial.  That will connect you to the Divinity and the source is always the Divinity.  So, everything is coming from the Divine.  So, slowly that is how you have to understand.  That means then you have risen above all the levels, otherwise many people may conveniently think, if it’s convenient for them, they try to think this is from God, if it is not convenient “O, this cannot be that.”  So, not like that.  Either somebody slaps you or somebody kisses you on the head, it is all the same, it is coming from God.  Like that you have to think.  That’s what is important. 

Question:   When the mind slips in meditation and we get into thinking, then something reminds us that we are supposed to be meditating.  What is it that reminds us?

Babaji Maharaj:   Sincerity. The soul’s sincerity doesn’t allow you to forget, means when the Master is teaching, if you sincerely have paid attention, that’s always ringing, “O, the Master is watching, O, the Master said, O, Guruji said, Swamiji said not to do this, not to do that,” so you won’t be.  So, you will become slowly, slowly alert.  Otherwise, you see for every human being, there is an ego factor.  When that has the upper hand, that becomes dearer, even more than the Guru also, often for many people.  So, but slowly as you pay more attention, attend repeatedly the Master’s teachings and His classes, then slowly the brain gets washed into that one, the brainwash happens, then it picks up.  So, then the same consciousness, same mind, same self which had become egoistic slowly starts giving up ego and starts remembering, “O, this is not right, I should not be doing this.  Babaji has alerted me.  Don’t talk like this.  Talk less, talk less, try to be silent, leave them to themselves, otherwise unnecessarily you will be unhappy if you get involved in the worldly things.  If you try to analyze each and everybody, you are getting involved, you are wasting your energy.”  So, that’s what the same soul when it is sincere picks up.

Question:   Does it mean that our connection is always there?

Babaji Maharaj:   Your connection with the Master is better; it has increased, and it is slowly giving up the ego, and it’s connecting with the Master more.

Question:   If we have an issue with somebody and it is playing over and over, and my ego is troubling, can it help to look at Your photo? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Slowly, yeah, look at my picture and see, “See, Baba, my ego is troubling, please help me.”  You will feel that Baba is slapping, then you will be all right.  So, that’s why it is nice, you are all here.  This workshop is like a once in a life cycle, life opportunity.  All human beings, during your life’s journey from childhood, how you were brought up or what happened, what are the habits you all picked up, you will see how difficult to give up such habits.  Slowly the Master trains.  If a certain student is not ready to work, He would ask that student to work more.  So, it’s like the training – commando training happens.  So, this is an opportunity that you all get trained well to give up such habits, and one day a problem is no more a problem, an issue is no more an issue.  Same type of things we all faced.  When I faced as a student also, that’s not an issue at all, that was never an issue also, then also, now also.  So, that’s why my mind became peaceful, and we could become preoccupied with God. 

Question:   Some people say meditation is a selfish practice.  What is the simplest response to this?

Babaji Maharaj:   You ask that person, “Did you go to university and get educated?  O, how selfish you are, only you got educated, you went to academy.”  That is what it is.  Means, if you meditate, you can educate yourself much better, and you can be helpful to others in a much better way.  You can be a matured person,  this is what it is.  Just like when you went to school you never considered that you will call anybody that “You are selfish, why are you getting educated, you also don’t get.”  So, that is considered a very wrong thing, a crooked thing to do like that.  So, in the same way, when you don’t want to meditate, you don’t want me also to meditate is a crooked thing; it’s not proper.  So, if I become meditative, then I can help you also.  So, when you meditate you will become more mature.  So, to help others also in the world, you need to be a better matured personality, otherwise you can end up getting confused and stressed out, “What to do, what not to do, this is the thing, that is the thing”, like that. 

Question:   Is everything we do in life for selfish reasons only?

Babaji Maharaj:   You eat for yourself, only you eat; you want to read, you read for yourself; you get learned and you become learned for yourself – everything, for selfish [need] only.  Even all the householders, they have their selfish [needs], they have a need to earn a livelihood, they have a wife or two children, for them they have to work.  You ask them to work for Middle East people, that you earn some livelihood for their sake, “O, no, I don’t have time so much.”  So, it’s not easy to be selfless, it’s a very difficult thing.  

Question:   Basically, we are not living their way, so they start accusing us.

Babaji Maharaj:   This is all the world.  If they cannot meditate, “Why you are meditating?”  That is all.  If we don’t get time to go to Babaji, only occasionally we go; “Why is Manju going all the way?  Unnecessarily, she tries to be very close to Babaji.  When we go also, only, she has to go with us and why she going now?”  So, sometimes you may have to quietly come without informing even the relatives also, so that they don’t trouble you, unnecessarily tease you, like that. 

Question:   Is the intention the same for everybody; we all want happiness?

Babaji Maharaj:   Happiness is the intention, but ego problem, they don’t know the right path, that’s why they are unable to achieve.  So, you see, highest wisdom needs to be applied.  Happiness is wanted, but simply we imagine happiness in a particular thing which is impermanent.  Hardly people think “We need to achieve a permanent happiness which will never go.”  Like I used to think of twelve months, twenty-four hours.  Who will think like that one?  Temporarily, “O, if I buy this shirt and pant, I’ll be happy.”  So, that is all their imagination.  For that only Swami always used to tell, “If you ask God you will end up asking only a small chocolate.  Let God give; He wants to give you the supermarket.”   So, happiness is the intention, but they don’t know the path properly, that’s why they don’t achieve supreme or permanent happiness. 

Question:   Why don’t people want to go for the supermarket?  Is it because they don’t have patience?

Babaji Maharaj:   One thing, they don’t have patience, another thing, wisdom application is not there; wisdom application also not there, and they are not ready to listen to somebody’s advice.  When we read Adi Shankara, we listened to such advice; “O, this is what it is.”  

Question:   What does Babaji mean by this “Once in a life-cycle opportunity?”

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, when this body is available to you, you have a choice and chance, opportunity to know the highest truth, to know about the permanent happiness, all these things, discriminate which is impermanent, which is permanent, what should I achieve; very short period of one life is available.  Within that you are supposed to achieve maximum, so that you don’t have to put an effort again; you would have achieved the final contentment. So for that this is available.  Once this body goes, you lose control over yourself.  Simply whatever your mind has picked up, habit, you end up doing that in the next incarnation also; you are helpless.  In this life itself, many times I tell you, “Don’t be rude, don’t break the box, don’t do these things.”  If the Master pulls up, then you will be alright, you will set right.  In our childhood also, our mother used to pull me up, “Don’t do this thing while sitting.  Sit peacefully, sit nicely, practice proper manners.  Don’t put to a hand here, don’t put to a hand here.”  She used to be pulling me up.  So, like that, that’s how we learned proper manners, so otherwise we would have ended up picking up wrong habits.  
When one is rude, they end up talking rudely to others also.  They are unable to talk, “Please kindly do this.”  “Why are you doing this!” [imitating a rough voice], like that only they will talk because they are habitual.  See, all these habits they have picked up, but they don’t want to change themselves, and the life simply goes by and one day they will die; next life they will continue the same thing.  

So, that is what we tell, once in a life cycle opportunity that you have obtained a human body; this has a well-developed brain which gives you the ability to think and discriminate: “Something wrong in me or something wrong in this world.  What makes me not to have that permanent peace?”  If the permanent peace is right from morning when I get up to next day morning I get up, that should be permanent.  For one hour it is very peaceful and excited until I get a coffee, I get some idlis to eat.  Once I have eaten, then there is pain in the stomach, again the happiness goes.  So, that’s what is impermanent, you know?  For this purpose, reason only we tell “It is a once in a life cycle opportunity, don’t leave this one.”  

That too, another point, so many hundreds of points are there.  You were born in Spain, a long distance.  All the circumstances, situations surroundings would have been totally different, not this type of spirituality.  Not often you would have found ashrams there who would sing about God, who would talk about God, who would discuss God, all these things, nobody would have done.  So, simply a boyfriend looks for a girlfriend, a girlfriend looks for a boyfriend and then they end up; that is the life.  More than that nobody has the idea or concept, what else can be there in our life, what else that we can achieve.  Somehow you came in contact, something triggered you, you went.  Sometimes you would have been misguided, went wrong, then again came back, then looked for, then looked up, finally you came, sitting here in Devaraya Samudram from Valencia in Spain.  Imagine the opportunity that you are blessed with; you got it.  So, in spite of this, if you let this go waste, can there be any bigger fool than you?  That’s what the great saint, Avvaiyar tells in one of her songs, “Having been born in a country like Bharatavarsha and having been born in Sanatana Dharma and if your ears are alright, if your eyes can see alright, if you are able to talk, it is alright, all your organs, limbs, everything is perfectly alright, in spite of this if you are unable to take the name of the Divine, what to tell about your misfortune,” she sings in her song.  How beautiful, no?  What a beautiful truth that saintly lady, Avvaiyar has sung.  See the imagination, the opportunity that we are all talking.  

So, all of you have come from America, come from Spain, from Australia, from UK.  In the same village, fifteen minutes distance, three, four hundred people, they live; nothing has occurred.  They all know Babaji is there, matha is there, but when there is a mass feeding, they all come running.  More than that they cannot think.  “We will just go once in a day when the Shivaratri happens and we just touch.  Who is going to go every day?  It is not possible.  We have to earn our livelihood; we have to enjoy the world.  A cinema shoot is happening, we have to go there.  So, what is the fun in going to the old man there?”  So, people’s thinking, different people think different ways and the opportunities are lost.  

Question:   How to avoid falling into impatience and maintain a seriousness when it is so difficult to achieve Self-realization in this short time-frame we have?

Babaji Maharaj:   Never look back, never give up, slow and steady.  Above all, the first thing, you should fall in love with the thing, either the spiritual truth or the Master.  This love means the unconditional love that we are talking.  No power on this earth should be able to disturb, let alone another human being comes and tries to brainwash you, “Arrey, this Babaji is not Self-realized, you are simply listening.  He talks nonsense and He will snatch some money from you and this is useless.  You come.  Let’s go and enjoy in the world.”  Hundreds of such things can happen always.  Like we had fallen in love, means from childhood that was my nature somehow.  I will tell – that might be useful to you.  Even before I met my Guru, we had respect for saintly persons, such people and there was one saintly person who declared himself to be God.  Somehow, I loved it.  I had respect for that, though I didn’t get attracted to that one to be the final.  Then I bought a photo of that person, brought and kept it in our altar at home.  My uncle’s son came and he was disturbing my mother.  My mother was confused, “Hey, he is telling that this person is a fraud saint.  He has been arrested by the police.  All his hairs are all fraudulently made, all these things.  We need to throw this away.”  I told my mother “Let them arrest that person, let him be fraud, but this photo is my faith.  This photo will never cheat me.  This is not a human being.  I will love this and I will worship this.  Let this photo be here.  Simply because one uncle’s son is teasing us, we don’t have to.  Even if the whole world comes and teases, I am going to keep this photo.”  My nature was like that, firm, never looked back.  It’s a matter of self-respect.  “Am I going to love somebody who is not of that quality?”  Like that.  Years later, the same thing I told my mother, when she told “What do you know about Swamiji?  You are talking “I want Swamiji, I will go to Him, I will go to Him.”  Do you know whether He is genuine or not?  Will you be able to sustain yourself on this path?”   “Mother, I don’t know whether He’s a yogi or He’s a bad guy, what He is.  What I know is I have fallen in love with Him.  I will never regret, because that is my self-respect.  After loving Him, if I regret, that means I did a wrong thing by loving Him.  That is a self-respect.  The world will laugh at me.  “It was you who loved Him and you are now regretting.”  Never, I will never do that one, come what maybe.  So, my God will help.”

Then God will definitely help you in sincerity, in steadfastness, never looking back.  Wait for the opportunity now, finally, for that patience.  It will come, it will come.  Next is you have to follow the instructions given by the Master; that is the next job, your sincerity.  I am asking if you reduce the thoughts, then you will get slowly some happiness and peace, it will start coming, so that will give you some confidence, “Yeah I am on the right path.”  So, like that, never give up.  You keep going like that.  You just love.  Love God at least.  The unknown God also you love, then nobody can cheat you, God will definitely help you.  

It is the God who will show you the right Guru also.  Many times people ask “How to find a genuine Guru?  How do we know that it is a genuine Guru or not?”  First, you have to be sincere.  If you want only the spiritual truths, you will not compromise with any other type of gurus, who will tell that “I can produce a chain and I can give you this, I can give you that.  You are already realized.”  You will never believe such things.  You will not compromise.  So, then you will know, you will find the right Guru automatically, because your mind will look for that.  After reading Adi Shankara and Sri Ramana Maharishi, that was what I wanted.  So, when we saw that thing in the Guru only, we got attracted and fell in love.  So, these are some of the points as a guidance for you.

Question:   What does Babaji mean by ‘falling in love’ as people might mistake that for what is experienced in relationships?

Babaji Maharaj:   So, that relationship which you all talk is always known as only lust and greed, because for some purpose only we are loving.  Again and again I talk, “You love for sake of love.  You go in quest of knowledge, for sake of knowledge.”  That is from the depth of the heart, from the mind, without any expectations; we don’t expect anything.  You go to the Master because you love.  Whether the Master loves me or not I never bothered.  Not even one day I asked Him “Do You really love me Swamiji?”  I never asked Him.  I do not even know till this day whether He really loved me or not, but what I know is I loved Him.  That was important for me.  I was there all the time because I loved Him.  So, that is the unconditional love.  That is the love taught in bhakti marga.  A pure love it is also known as, because mentally it is pure.  It is not the body, not for any other enjoyment, any other greediness, any other expectations, “O, if I love this Master, He will make me His right hand and I can be a VIP.”  There is no such thing, so it is not with any expectations.  That is what is known as the real love; from the heart you love.  

Question:   What is the difference between love and faith?

Babaji Maharaj:   When you have love that is the faith.  Both are same.  You have love, you have faith; you have faith, you have love.  They go together – no difference.  You love means there is faith already; if you have faith, that means you love.  They both go together.  

Question:   Does love just happen naturally?

Babaji Maharaj:   If it naturally happens that is easy, that’s a different thing.  Otherwise, also you can cultivate this, you can learn.  You just have to love.  You don’t bother what the other does or not; that is the real love.  Even if you have to stay away for a while, you don’t get to go closer also, you continue loving, simply; you love.  Take it as a challenge and you love.  That is the natural thing.  Then slowly it will come to you also.  So, overall you have to be sincere, then your love will also be sincere.  

Question:   How is one attracted to the Guru?

Babaji Maharaj:   Love is actually infinity, infinite.  Finally, there won’t be any discrimination at all.  For me, when I loved Swamiji, even if He was not a yogi or a Swamiji, I just loved Him; I was not going to give up that love.  So, like that, my God is there.  He is everywhere.  Means He is in there, in this form, in this mantra, in this name, this is mine.  So, then the Divine works it for you.  

Question:   Could Babaji talk about what Swamiji meant by “God and Guru are your only true friends”?

 Babaji Maharaj:   Like this, definitely He would have told many times, “He is the only relative.  God is the Divine.  You and your God.  Have that faith.”  Means don’t have to get worried about hundred and one things, this angel, that angel, “Should we worship this God, should we worship that God?”  Worship any.  All are same.  For that type of thing He used to teach. 

Question:   Is true unconditional love the same as Self-realization or is Self-realization beyond that?

Babaji Maharaj:   So, when truly there is unconditional love, you will be led towards Self-realization.  That leads to that.  That serves like a ladder, unbroken bridge.  

Question:   What happens when Babaji encounters another Self-realized being?

Babaji Maharaj:   Just see the same Self everywhere, nothing else is there.  No separation is there.  See the oneness.  

Question:   You won’t see the lineage of that being?

Babaji Maharaj:   All such imaginations won’t occur.  You just see the Self.  Same thing is there.  Whatever is here, it is the same thing there.  But one thing, rarely we get to see, it is a pleasant thing, definitely.  At least this much I can tell.  So, usually I avoid going anywhere, to any saints.  Many times while traveling also, some devotees have asked “Would You like to go and meet such a saint?  Would You like to go and meet?” [Babaji gives a gesture to say ‘no thanks’]  One such saint we have met in Dehradun, on the outskirts.  For long time he used to observe silence only.  There is a place called Sadhana Kendra – Chandraswami.  So, I loved him, liked him, his child-like behavior, and he was very affectionate, respectful.  He was very humble.  The humility – one particular thing is humility.  A realized soul will never be arrogant or have ego of their status or any such thing, just simple.  

Question:   Has Babaji been to Kumbha Mela?

Babaji Maharaj:   No, I don’t go.  This is a very heavy…O God, crazy [laughs].  All sorts of people come.  Not everybody will be Self-realized there.  Different people of status also, sometimes just to go and have the first bath in the Ganga they take out swords to fight also.  So many things we get to hear.  Anyway, but generally I avoid to go to crowds, I don’t go. 

Question:   How does wisdom come when Self-realization is achieved?

Babaji Maharaj:   So, once you merge, wisdom is not needed there.  Wisdom is needed when you have to deal with dualities; you need to judge, you need to analyze.  When it is you, no more any need of wisdom at all, it’s done.  Simply you exist, supreme peace and contentment, everything.  So, everything disappears.  All attributions disappear.  Simply exist there, and no need of anything at all.  Only one.

Question:   How was Swamiji so intelligent and knowledgeable about the world without having attended school?  

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, when you meditate, when your consciousness is pure, your observation power increases; if you need to deal with the people of the world, that happens.  But often, many times we saw closely His life, not everybody would have got to see such a closeness with Swamiji.  He was definitely intelligent, but many times He had to believe some people who betrayed Him afterwards.  That doesn’t mean that He did a wrong thing.  He trusted them out of His own purity.  But they betrayed.  Such things do happen in the world.  World is always like that. 

Question:   Do you need a Self-realized Master to get realized, or can you achieve it with your faith and meditation?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, if you find a Master, it’s always like a bonus, otherwise it can come from inside also; it is possible.  Self-realization is possible without a human Guru also for somebody.  If the Guru is there, can guide you, if the Self-realized Master is a Guru; that is what is important.  That’s very rare to find, not very easy.  Otherwise, just you have to be sincere and you know the sadhana, what has to happen, then you do it, so that’s what.  Like Swamiji used to tell, “If you need a Guru, means…” – His example was – “You are walking on the road.  You think that you don’t need a Guru.  Suddenly you are likely to come to a circle from where a road goes to east, road goes to west, road goes to north, and then you are confused, “What should I do?” – then you need a Guru”, He used to tell. Otherwise, if it is straight road you are going, you keep going, you will reach, it’s fine.   

Question:   What was Babaji’s last experience of duality before Self-realization?

Babaji Maharaj:   To me a Divine appearance did happen before the merger as Ardhanareeshwara, but not necessary that everybody should have the same vision, no need.  Simply, a merger also can happen.  Because we were brought up in bhakti marga, those resolutions would have been there, so we had that manifestation, and then the merger happened.  There is no rule to what has to happen as the last duality.  Basic thing is that you lose the idea of the ‘I’ thought also, then everything ends.  That is the final thing, and the merger has happened.

Question:   So, an experience of the Eternal Self happens before the Divinity appears?

Babaji Maharaj:   At that time only it happens, together, by the grace.  It happens and then you merge.  Everything finishes.  This thing is very difficult to explain exactly, to make another understand in which way it happens.  One has to rise to that level by meditating practice, so one day you will be able to know that. 

Question:   Does one need special blessings from different Gurus in your spiritual lineage?

Babaji Maharaj:   If you imagine like that, you have to go, otherwise really there is no such need at all, that you need a special blessing from another Guru, that you are going to get something extra.  This is not like having some property or getting some ice cream, some sweets or something like that.  Self-realization is one divine, one blessing.  So, simply by blessings it does not happen – by your effort, your faith.  So, if you just keep it to yourself, it will happen there.  If you start imagining you need fifteen Gurus’ blessings, then you will have to go through all the things.  It is simply you are here and the realization is here, you can go, or you can go imagine, imagine, imagine, and then come here.  Sometimes you sit in an autorickshaw, you tell that you have to reach a destination.  The autorickshaw will go round, round, round; suddenly you will realize it was just the back door.  So, he would have charged you more; so, like that this also happens, unnecessarily.  If you get to listen to such things then you visualize and you keep doing, all such things do happen, whereas there is no such necessity.  That is what, you and your Divine.

Question:   So, in terms of how a lineage functions, is it just the Guru that is closest to you rather than someone who is far back, communicating to you?

Babaji Maharaj:   Many organizations, many people have this illness, wanting the lineage.  It really has no meaning at all.  Even, you see, to my Guru also, many people showed His horoscope to the naadi readers.  The naadi readers, if you go they will tell something.  He told all twenty-six lives of Swamiji, he told all who are very famous celebrity Self-realized souls.  “Swamiji was this, Swamiji was this, Swamiji was this.”  So, the result, what happens, Swamiji was like this in this life [points to the idol of Swamiji], but people in some ashrams, they put another incarnation – they say He was a Chhatrapati Shivaji in one of the lives, they put that cap also on His head here and they put another dress that He was in another life.  So, they do messed up and crazy things.  I get so irritated and annoyed, “This is not Swamiji!”  Just with the kaupeen, He is so sweet and beautiful.  That’s how we all saw Him, but they don’t listen.  

One person brought it here also.  I am not going to put this cap on this.  He looks like Agrasena Aggarwal, Genghis Khan type.  We don’t want this nonsense.  So, these are crazy people really.  And some funny things more.  When I went to Ashram fifty years ago, one of Swamiji’s attendants, he was visiting there, he told me, “Srinivas, Swamiji used to visit my home only in Kolkata.”  “When did Swamiji go to Kolkata?  I never heard that He had gone to Kolkata.”  “His previous life, man.  You don’t understand.  When He was Ramakrishna, He used to come to my house only to eat food.” [puts hand on head] Like this.  So, if you try to think twenty-six lives of His, but you are not following what He wanted you to do in this life: “Meditate!”  He told.  That meditation, they don’t want to do.  They want to follow all the lives that He was there.  For that they will be arguing, they will be fighting.  They criticize me that “You refuse your own Guru’s this and that…”  [Gurudeva gives out a sigh]   

Question:   How not to confuse belief with faith?

Babaji Maharaj:   Faith is your self-confidence.  When you have faith, you just catch hold of one.  Even if you take this mic, “This is God,” but you have to have that faith.  Means then your mind connects to it, then it gets to see God only.  So, that’s what, but simply by worshipping an idol and I don’t apply my mind, that is simply belief.  So that is the difference – faith.

Question:   Babaji has said that whatever you visualize, you will see that.  For instance in Babaji’s tapas, He was taken to other worlds.  What is the essence of this?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, finally they are all manifested illusions, just like this world also is illusion.  So, that’s what you realize.  Everything, it’s like practical classes, workshop classes, laboratory experience of certain things.  In teachings, we were told everything is simply creativity, imagination; nothing really exists except one Divinity, one single Self as all-pervaded.  So, there also, you get to see the mind’s work, previous mind’s work and higher consciousness work.  A long distance you will travel; you get to see this, you get to see that, and suddenly you realize you are just sitting and meditating only.  So, then your mind picks up that, that practical class.  See, if I keep telling theoretically, “This world is only an imagination, a long dream”, that won’t sit into the mind easily; you will end up considering it as a reality.  But when you sit for meditation – that is shown in the deep things – such a world is shown and then that disappears.  Then you realize, “O, this was only a make-believe, nothing really existed.”  The same realization can occur when we try to visualize the dream also – “It was after all a dream and nothing real was there.  As soon as I got up, it all disappeared.  Where is that dream?  Nothing happened.”  So, that type of lessons you learn finally, so that all habits of the mind are totally burnt once for all, then only you are able to go for Self-realization.  That is the basic essence.

Question:   The poet Kabir Das needed a Guru.  That shows that we all need a Guru?

Babaji Maharaj:   Woh Guru ka maryada paalan kiya, unho ne! [Transl: He maintained the tradition of the Guru and associated customs and rituals.]  But spiritual truths came by His own observation, His purity of the consciousness.  That’s what He observed.  When He observed the people of the world following superstitions, blind faithism, for that purpose they were fighting, infighting and egoism, status…, watching them, He composed the couplets and sang beautifully.

Question:   It was completely dark with black-out curtains in the room where Babaji did Tapas.  Was this for the whole five years or was it adopted later on?

Babaji Maharaj:   After that I think we adopted complete darkness.  Because when I was going introvert, it was becoming a bit difficult for me to see the light, whenever I used to come out.  So, then we adopted a small zero-watt bulb.   I requested them to put, and curtains were put, so that it is dark; only a little bit dim light only, I could come out, and that was better.  The bright light was affecting me in those days. 

Question:   Swamiji did His tapas out in the open with the sun and everything?

Babaji Maharaj:   There’s no need to imitate the Guru in every small step.  Whatever I felt, I adopted such methods.  But the basic thing was to keep the mind quiet.  That’s what you have to learn from your Guru, imitate the Guru or whatever you want to say. 

Question:   For Swamiji, it was also very difficult in the sunlight?

Babaji Maharaj:   It was becoming difficult for Him afterwards.  Then some devotees first initially put Him in some hut type of bamboo.  Then finally a temple got constructed.  But that also, during summers here in the coastal places of Andhra it becomes very hot; it was becoming difficult for Him – in the story also it is written – to keep the mind into samadhi, then Tapaswiji Maharaj advised to build a gopuram type so that the heat gets reduced.  So, nowadays if you see, if the height of the roofing is very less that brings direct heat, but on that also either some tin shade, something is constructed so that the heat gets reduced.  So, like that it was done for Him, then He felt better.

End of Session