0:00 Intro
1:03 If someone is not born as a Hindu, can they still benefit from meditation?
5:54 What difference does it make to have a Guru?
7:47 Different Gurus may have prescribed different techniques, how do we know which one is the most beneficial for us?
17:12 Is the physical Guru and the inner Guru the same?
21:01 Ego vs the Guru
29:03 Is the Guru-Disciple relationship like that of the mother and child?
30:43 If we were to follow the technique that Babaji teaches, can we also achieve Self Realization?
33:32 Is the Atma already enlightened?
36:18 The feeling of ‘I’ and the Self, are they the same thing?
39:08 Is there a mind in Baba’s body or not?
40:30 Is there any thought process in Babaji’s mind or is it always silent?
41:43 What does Babaji mean by “You can be your best friend and you can be your worst enemy”
45:38 How to make sure our emotions don’t override our decision?
50:51 Swamiji used to show anger, why was that?
52:27 Is it possible for someone to be a descendant of Lord Shiva?
53:19 Can deep physical pain and suffering keep you in the moment?
54:33 Is it possible to lose all the benefits from your sadhana?
57:25 Is it the role of the Guru to bring the disciple back to the path?
1:00:10 Is it possible to practice meditation with open eyes?
1:01:40 If one is closely aligned with more than one Guru who teach slightly differing techniques, how does one handle this?
1:03:31 When we see something in the world that is frightening, if we watch it, like in meditation, will it disappear?
1:05:32 What does Babaji mean by conscience?
1:07:39 How to control the ego which plays havoc in everyday life.
1:10:03 What is the difference between Yoga and Hinduism?

Discourse: In Quest of Truth – Different Paths of Spirituality
Online Q&A No.  178
Recorded: 12 June 2024

Start of Session

Babaji Maharaj commences

   Prostrations with deep love and reverence at the lotus feet of beloved Master Shivabalayogi, I greet you all with my love and blessings.  So, wonderful to be with you all once again, another opportunity for you all to sit and silence your mind. 

   Let me have a quick look at the gallery.  We have already about 119 present here; wonderful. 

Start of Questions and Answers

Ma Ambaji:   Baba, thank You so much for giving me this opportunity one more time to ask some of my silly questions, but I’ll try my best to frame them so everybody can understand.  Good evening everyone, good morning everyone, good afternoon everyone. 

   Baba, today’s topic is different faiths, different religions, different gurus, different techniques.  So, Baba, I want to ask You a basic question which is – If someone is born not as a Hindu but they still practice meditation, will it benefit that person who is not following Hinduism and they want to remain in their own faith but they still want to practice meditation, they still want to have their devotional practice towards whatever religion?  Does it benefit them equally or everybody has different results when they practice it?

Babaji Maharaj:   First thing, I would like to remember the teaching of our beloved Guru Shivabalayogi – Swamiji said “All religions are equal and honorable.”   He was one of the greatest yogis that India produced, a unique Master.  Now, you see, we take the mind; mind belongs to every human being.  This mind’s Ultimate Truth is recognized as Divinity, or we want to just call as Ultimate Truth.  In different cultures, different terminologies have been used by different Self-realized Masters who came from time to time.  Like in the same way, in our great Vedas and Upanishads, our greatest sages, they have used certain terminologies suitable or according to the culture that was prevailing, language that was prevailing.  Just like science and technology – science has its own terminologies. Whenever they come across a truth, they would like to use such terminologies only, but the truth is always a truth, whether you want to call it just gravity or Newton’s law or by any other name, of any other language, of any other culture.

The truth about that thing is all the same; that was always there in nature.  Simply we as human beings try to adopt different terminologies suitable to our culture and for our identity and our own communication and understanding.  So, thus, all paths are same, all religions.  Anybody belonging to any religion, any human being, even if it is atheist or theist, whoever it is, there is no difference; if they practice meditation, they will definitely be benefited.  Benefited in the sense, you see, first they can become masters of their mind.  They can cleanse their minds  – cleansing or taking control, everything is the same –  once the mind is cleansed of its chattering habits, then the truth of its own existence is revealed. 

Once you are able to take out the mind from its preoccupation to its own imaginations, then the truth about that mind or its connections to the Ultimate Truth is revealed.  So, for this, any human being, it won’t ask “Who are you? To which place you belong, to which culture?”  Truth is always like that.  So, thus, anybody who practices will definitely be benefited.  When you put your hands in the fire, it will not ask “Should I burn you if you belong to this caste? Should I not burn you if you belong to this religion, caste?”  It will simply burn.  Knowledge and wisdom are like that.  It will come to anybody.  It will never ask “Where and whom you belong to?”  That is the beauty of the Ultimate Truth, the nature, the Divinity.  That is why always one God, many names, one Truth, many names. 

Ma Ambaji:  Baba, You just mentioned atheist.  So suppose I don’t do every day a particular kind of worship, but I have devotion towards only my Master, my Guru, or even I don’t have a guru.  I’m a good person.  Does it make a difference in my life or guru is very necessary?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, here, really it doesn’t make any difference whether you believe in any system or you want to do any worship in any form or no form or nothing.  But if you meditate, you will be benefited.  That meditation you need to understand.  For that I would recommend that you would require a guru who can guide you properly, who can keep you inspired, be a torch bearer to you; what are the benefits and what is the truth that will be revealed, like that a master can take you. 

That is when a master is recommended so that you don’t lose inspiration, you don’t lose that enthusiasm to cleanse your mind and know the truth.  Like for example Einstein simply spoke about truth when he said, “When the universe expands, along with that truth also expands”, he said; he did not tell “God expands”, he did not tell “Divinity expands”, any such thing.  But our own sages spoke about Divinity for a specific reason, so that is important, actually. 

Ma Ambaji:   Baba, we come to the guru here on this point.  People, when they come to You, some of the people may have got initiated by different Gurus, different Masters, different teachers, and different gurus may have prescribed different kinds of meditation, different kinds of teachings. So, does it also affect their meditation, or just the technique You tell is the most beneficial, or other techniques are not as good as what You prescribe?

Babaji Maharaj:   We don’t tell like that one, because our Guru’s lineage – He was a wonderful Master, Swamiji.  In fact, to be precise, no Gurus will be so unique like Swamiji, because when He initiated, He used to talk very often that He initiates in the ‘mitra bhava’, as a friend; “As a friend I am giving this technology to you, technique of meditation and you practice meditation.”  And He would leave it to the student.  On your own – say, I am initiating you – and then on your own, if you want to consider me a Guru and want my guidance and want me to be with you to help you to achieve the truth, then it is my duty to be your Guru – like that.  First, I don’t take any initiative to tell that “I am your Guru; now it is binding upon you.”  Nothing.  I have initiated you, but it is not binding upon you to consider me only as a Guru.  That was the uniqueness you won’t find anywhere else in the world perhaps. 

But if you wanted to consider me as a Guru, then it’s my duty to guide you, be there.  So, this, in ancient culture, this was recommended, a learner is to be known as the student, a disciple; a person who is already learned and who imparts the knowledge is to be considered as a Master, Guru.  That’s what is Guru. Guru’s meaning you all know now – the one who dispels the darkness of ignorance is the Guru.  So, like that, that is what the thing is.  So, if you need guidance, if you need somebody to inspire you, that is recommended. So then you accept somebody as a Guru and you will be benefited.  But if you think you don’t want it, it’s up to you, but if you get confused, then you might keep doing wrong things and you may not progress at all. That is very much necessary.  We have seen some people meditating for 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, and achieving nothing and reaching nowhere and no transformation at all. We observed keenly just for learning, for educational purposes during my Guru’s Swamiji’s time.  They were with Swamiji, they used to call Guru, but in their conscience, in their mind and in their conscience – not consciousness – conscience, perhaps they never accepted Swamiji as a Guru and never tried to surrender to Him totally.  So, they did not learn what Swamiji wanted to teach. 

So, this is what happens.  For this reason, it is recommended that you consider somebody as a Guru and follow the methods.  And in fact, in Indian culture, Dattatreya is supposed to have had twenty-four Gurus.  Even from a dog that He could learn, considered it as a Guru – from anywhere that you can learn, there is no conflict.  Like Swamiji also used to tell “If you already have been initiated by any other Guru into any other method, there is no conflict.  Before or after you can continue your practice, in addition, you try to do this also.”  One thing about the method that I would like to tell you, without trying to belittle anything else, just for sake of understanding – in the method that Swamiji received from Lord Shiva, did twelve-years tapas and which He passed down to us, in our lineage, this is a silent meditation – you don’t have to chant anything, you don’t have to target any form, any name, nothing.  Just watch in between eyebrows, but no target is given for what you have to watch.  We just tell “Just watch!”  But eventually you will realize the mind is trying to watch itself, because mind is infinite, so then that infinity needs to be regained, otherwise the mind is full of thoughts and visions; only that will be noticed.  

Common people, they notice all the thoughts and visions that are in their mind, but they don’t notice the mind itself.  For this, many times I have told in my teaching, when you enter a room or a hall, you seldom notice the space.  In that space only all matter exists, but your attention gets attracted to a fan, a wall, a pillar, a seat, this, that, people, so many things, but you seldom notice that space also is there, which is the actual truth.  To notice that space – if all matter is removed, then when there is only space, you will notice “O, this is that truth”,  like that.  And those features also will be revealed.  In the same way, in your mind, just now thoughts and visions are there, that’s why it keeps everybody busy.  If those thoughts and visions are removed through this practice of meditation, then what the mind is, that secret is revealed automatically, that it is not simply an inert object or a void place, it is supremely conscious of its own existence; that is where you will find consciousness of your own existence.  

For this also I have told – you have millions of thoughts in your mind, but one amongst them is not a thought, is your consciousness of existence.  It is not a thought; it is a reality.  You remove all other thoughts and visions, it is possible.  When you just watch, they will all dissolve and disappear, but this consciousness of existence will always be there; you cannot remove it, because it is a reality, it is not a thought, it is not an imagined substance, and that is you yourself.  That’s what will take you towards Self-realization. 

So, like that, when people ask about this silent meditation and other meditations, means when other types of sadhana, mantra japas, any other form, breath, so many methods are there –  Patanjali is supposed to have 108 type of methods, even counting numbers, means something; all these are considered as preliminary round exercises to make the mind single pointed.  It is something like instead of having millions of thoughts, you just try to have one thought.  If you are trying to repeat a mantra and concentrate on that mantra, so that first the mind becomes concentrated on that; as it becomes concentrated, it will give up all other thoughts and visions.  Then finally you had to get rid of that mantra also, so that the mind has to go introvert and merge with itself, get absorbed into the Self, then the Self’s secret is revealed.  So, that is what is important.

That’s why I have tried to tell, in this method of my Guru, it is like getting recruited as an officer directly, you don’t have to become a junior clerk, then a senior clerk, then another officer, then you come to a seniority.  No need.  Directly you come.  Mind, you are trying to give the mind to become quiet, silent on its own, without any external anchor or object, then automatically it will go introvert, it won’t stop anywhere.  When it becomes silent, it keeps going and merging with the Self; that’s when the samadhi will occur. And actual nirvikalpa samadhi; there is no iota of thought, no savikalpa, nothing, no thought; it is not concentrated on any particular picture or thought or anything, it just merges in itself.  That is the benefit of this method that I can tell, with due respect to all other methods of sadhana and the gurus, etcetera. 

Ma Ambaji:   Baba, You talk very beautifully about how the mind and in the guidance of Guru, how one can achieve and go totally introvert.  So, Baba, is the physical Guru or inner Guru, which You just described as Self, which can lead you to the ultimate of the human birth, are both the inner Guru and outer physical Guru the same?  Do we consider them as one, the one single Self?  Or do we take the physical Guru, get attached to the physical Guru and consider Him as human being?

Babaji Maharaj:   In my opinion, both the outer Guru and inner Guru are same, provided if the outer Guru is a Self-realized Master.  He will never ask the student to be a client tied to his lotus feet.  Such a Master would like the student to stand on his or her own feet; that is the real Master, Swamiji said.  “The one who will make you stand on your feet, not just like a client to my lotus feet, no need.  I am inside you also.”  As you are able to bring your mind here [pointing to bhrikuti], concentrated totally, then you will find me within you also.  I am there.  It’s the same thing – guidance will come from inside.  Until you are able to concentrate here, you need enthusiasm, inspiration, the Master’s guidance, to be with you.  Then once it comes here, then you will see that the inner… some truth slowly sucks towards itself; that is the inner Guru.  

So, thus, outer Guru and inner Guru are all same.  As you become devoted to your Guru in the human form, if you are really devoted, really devoted, I repeat, slowly you will start seeing the same Master, the outer Guru, not just in that human form, everywhere, in everything as everything.  If anything good happens, it is your Master; if anything bad happens, it is the Master who is trying to teach you some lesson. If your wishes are fulfilled, it is the Master who is gracing upon you. If the wishes are not being fulfilled, there is some reason – there is some reason the mother doesn’t want the child to go into that ice cream.  She knows that ice cream is bad for the health of my child.  The Master doesn’t allow the student to go there.  He will turn.  Swamiji used to tell, “You are riding a chariot, and if one horse tries to go here, another horse tries to go there, then you will keep whipping a little bit and threatening it, and make it try to go straight, both, go into that one.  That is the mind and wisdom” He used to say. “It has to go in one direction” That’s what a Master does always. So, when you are able to consider the Master as everything, when you are slapped, it is the Master, when you are kissed, it is the Master.  If you understand this, then your bhakti becomes real and definitely elevated, and then you will realize the same outside Master is inside you also; they both are same, there is no difference. 

Ma Ambaji:   Baba, here comes the ego factor.  You said that the inner Guru and the outer Guru, the physical Guru, there is no difference, they both are same.  But we can’t see the inner Guru, so we override our consciousness and take our own decision, even though sometimes our inner Guru, that inner consciousness is telling us something to do differently, but we can override it.  But what happens with the physical Guru, if physical Guru is always nice, praising and loving and very affectionate, talking very nicely, we love, that’s like you are getting your ego massaged by your Guru – but if a Guru, same Guru, pulls us up, then we think, “O, our Guru, the physical Guru, the Guru, whoever it is, is not right.”  

So, is it the ego?  How do we differentiate that?  It reminds me of a story from the Mahabharata when the Pandavas’ sons were killed by the enemy.  And somewhere Bhagwan Krishna was always guiding Pandavas and telling them that this is what the destiny is, and ultimately this is in the favor of dharma, means though it was not at that time visible as dharma, but ultimately it was put for the larger cause.  

The same thing sometimes happens in our life.  A Guru may be telling us not to do something, but at that time we feel that that is right for us, and we want to take that decision, and we don’t want to listen to our physical Guru, or even to our consciousness, our inner Guru.  So, Baba, that ego, our personal ego, as a jivatma, as an individual being, our ego is always so strong that we don’t see…

Babaji Maharaj:   During my Guru’s time, very often I saw some of the devotees who used to be very close to Him  – they were like VIP type, I used to say – sitting with Him, talking all the time, telling “My Guru, my Guru.  You are great”, this, that.  They were looking after Him and getting irritated with others that they must treat Swamiji very well, “Like this, you have to be like this” they would lecture to others. But when it came to them… Came to them means here, when the Guru and their ego, their connection was challenged, their own ego became greater than their Guru.  They failed to consider “This scolding of Swamiji or this behavior of Swamiji is for my welfare only”, and the distanced themselves from Swamiji, they went away. And they didn’t want to come back and see Him during the fag end of Swamiji’s physical life on this earth.  I always wondered “My God. If I was not given the duty of an ashram, every day I would run to my Guru, no matter if He had cut me into pieces, if He had kicked me in front of everyone, if He had humiliated in front of everyone”; that did not come to me at all that I should go away from Swamiji.  I tried to also, to stay away once or twice, but only for a short while and that dragged me back.  In my dreams, in my thoughts, in my every day, in my everything, it was Swamiji, Swamiji and Swamiji.  “O God, this Swamiji is not going to leave me!”  Because it was Swamiji who had got hold of me, the Guru! I just came back, no matter how many times, thousands of times He scolded.  But I saw some of the people and it was surprising – they were very close to Swamiji, as if they were the number one disciple, pratam shishya, but when it came just once, once, they did not come back to Swamiji, they did not want to see Him when His physical body was not good also.

Such is the havoc that the ego can play; that becomes destiny.  So, imagine what they would have lost.  All their sadhana would simply have gone into the drain.  Such things… means I repeat a disclaimer, please, talking only for educational purpose, I am not talking about any particular person – but I saw it, I learned, I observed, I wondered the play of the maya, illusion. All these things, for all these things, one solution.  If you really fall in love with the Master, that love can take care of everything.  No ego can overtake the love.  Love is strongest if that becomes the best.  Slowly, slowly the Master tests.  Little bit He will pull you up.  Then deliberately He will tell you, “You are wrong.  You are wrong.  You are sitting, you are wrong.  You are standing, you are wrong.  You are running, you are wrong.  You are walking, you are wrong.”  You try to do your best and you have cooked the best things for Him.  “Ah, this is nonsense cooking.  Why do you think that you can cook something for me?”  His divine play if you can understand.  He is playing.  Don’t believe, He is acting outside.  I always used to tell myself, “Swamiji You are acting.  I love You.  I know You love me.  You are only behaving like this.  It’s Your drama.  I’m not going to take anything seriously.  You kill me.  You cut me into pieces.  I am not going to go away.”   So, hundreds of times simply I used to come out of the room and He used to scold me, “Don’t show me your face at all.  Get out of my sight!”  I never took that seriously.  I never wanted to go away.  I said, “No, I will come back, come what may be, even if this coming back to You makes me to go to hell, no problem.  I will go to hell, but I will not leave and go away from You.  I will be with You.  Even if I have to undergo any suffering, I have to be cut into pieces, I will come back to You.”  So, that is the Guru, that love.  If this can happen, then you can overcome.  Otherwise, the ego overtakes, it will simply take you away.  That means – now I am coming to the main point – even after so much time with your Guru, you had failed to see the same Guru within you.  I have seen such people forgetting the Guru and taking names of other people as their Gurus.  They are changing their Gurus and going away to other groups also, I have seen.  Sad thought this is, but.

Ma Ambaji:   Baba,somebody once told me, my very dear friend, she said to me, “We do not divorce our children.” Most of the time the world does not divorce their parents.  We divorce our spouses because we do not see ourselves in them and we break up our relationship.  So, isn’t the Guru and disciple relationship like a mother and a child?

Babaji Maharaj:   Exactly.  We saw the same thing in Swamiji. 

Ma Ambaji:   We never divorce our mother. How we can leave our Guru?

Babaji Maharaj:   See, though Swamiji would have used such language – harsh, and He used to blast, but in His consciousness or conscience, both, He never wanted any of his disciples to go away.  I saw it.  Within two minutes, just come out and take one round and go back and stand in front of Him, He would have forgotten by then and that was over, that is all.  It means I realized, nothing registers in His mind and nothing stays in His mind.  He used to say, “Hey, there is nothing in mind.”   Today I can understand and realize when there is nothing in my mind also.  Nothing registers and nothing stays there.  It simply disappears.  You come in front of me.  That’s gone.  You are mine, like that. 

Ma Ambaji:   Baba, we come here on Your technique.  You always refer to Atmagyaan or Atmasakshaatkar or becoming one with a universe or becoming one with Divinity.  And Your technique, it’s also very amazing.  It’s very simple but at the same time, it’s very, very unique.  So, Baba, we come here today onto the part of the sadhana.  Your teachings are for a very ultimate purpose; it’s not to achieve anything in this world.  Whatever Your teachings are, they always guide us to go for the Ultimate, like Guru Vashishta and Sri Rama.  So, is it possible for us, if we follow Your technique and the method of sadhana, to become one day enlightened and become one and achieve the ultimate of the human birth?

Babaji Maharaj:   Definitely.  Many times, I have even told, in this body I am not that important for you, but your own faith is much more important.  Don’t lose that faith.  And with this method, you keep going, don’t lose this method.  Because this method will not ask you, “Who is your Guru?  To whom do you belong?”  You just have to sit and keep quiet and just watch in between eyebrows.  Your mind gets cleansed.  If all thoughts dissolve, all visions dissolve, then you get it.  You become one with the Divine and you can get enlightened, or you obtain the Atmasakshaatkara. I am talking of Atmasakshaatkara – here, I would like to remind, Swamiji my Guru often mentioned the word of Atmasakshaatkara.  He was not very happy to use simply ‘enlightened’, because ‘enlightenment’ is a common word.  You can become enlightened of anything, but Atmasakshaatkara means particularly you realize the Self.  You realize the Atman that you are.  That’s why Atmasakshaatkara or Self-realization He used it in His talks with us when He mentioned.  So, the same thing I always use, Atmasakshaatkara.  Yes, you can obtain the Atmasakshaatkara if you just follow the technique, follow the teachings, and do the sadhana. 

Ma Ambaji:   Baba, what is Atmasakshaatkar?  Does Atma take the sakshaatkar or Atma is already enlightened?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, it is not the question of already enlightened.  There is a thin edge of difference, and there is an illusion.  Two types of schools have these teachings, I have seen.  Means, as you go higher, higher, nothing has happened.  Means, when you are dreaming, that dream was never true.  So, you can consider that truth never came out.  In the same way, some schools of thought and some teachings in Upanishads also have spoken that this creation has not happened at all, because it is not real.  So, that means, you are with the Self, you are that Self.  But some illusion, somewhere if it has happened, you have to judge yourself.  Means, are you aware of yourself?  Or are you aware of yourself in some other thing and you are miserable, you are not happy?  These two things go together.  If you are aware of yourself, means if you have Atmasakshaatkara, you are already enlightened, you will have the Supreme peace and contentment.  These two things will be there.  Means, Atmasakshaatkara, contentment, Supreme peace – these three are one.  If these two are not there, contentment is not there it means you are still looking for happiness, you are not contented.  That means you don’t have the Supreme happiness if you are not contented and vice-versa.  That means, you are not yet enlightened, you are not yet Self-realized.  There is some iota of some illusion is there, brahm.  Some illusion has happened that you have forgotten.  Atmasakshaatkara means you have to regain consciousness of your real Self.  That’s what it is.  It is already there.  It is not a throne or a status that you have to obtain.  Simply you have to realize that you are that; it is already there.  Hope you understand and I’m clear what I’m talking. 

Ma Ambaji:   Yes.So, Baba, here You and I, means the feeling of my being and the Self – are they three different things or are they the same substance or the same thing?

Babaji Maharaj:   The feeling of ‘I’ is the same but along with that the thoughts that gets generated about yourself is not the truth. Because when the thoughts get generated, your attention goes to the body as yourself with a name, with a personality, with the status, and so many things about yourself.  That is what is known as ego.  Aham aakaar – ahamkara.  That’s what it is known as often – the false pride, false identification of yourself.  So, you are not this body, but you are thinking “This body is me.”  So, anything happens to body.  The moment you feel threatened about your body, you become insecure, and you go into a conflict; that becomes an ego.  So if you are Self-realized, you don’t feel threatened at all, because like Ashtavakra said, “O King Janaka, I thought in your court there are learned people but what I can see is all stupid and foolish.”  Because He said finally, “They are laughing at my body, thinking this body to be me, but they don’t know who I am.  Had they had the slightest idea of the knowledge of who I am, they would not have laughed like this, idiots.”  He says, “That is why they are stupid and foolish.”  That’s what Ashtavakra tells the King.  See, this world, they may see in me a white beard, a seventy-year-old man and a man sitting here.  “He also eats food like anybody else, he also laughs, he also talks.  That is all.  I can also do like him.”  Many people think like that one, but they don’t understand what is in my consciousness, what is my mind.  Is there a mind at all or not a mind at all.  Is there anything that stays there or not stays there.  So that is the difference. 

Ma Ambaji:   Yes Baba. Is there a mind in Baba’s body or not?

Babaji Maharaj:   There is no mind, because mind means 24 hours all the time, the chatterbox – that is not there anymore.  A supremely peaceful consciousness that we call  Supreme Consciousness.  It is in itself.  Many people may misunderstand a yogi; “he can see the future, he can see the past”.  If I have to see the past or the future, then I am not seeing the Divinity, then I am not a yogi.  This is a myth.  That’s why Sri Krishna tells Arjuna, “Nobody knows the result of this war, but you have to take up your bows and arrows, do your karma.  Fight this war.  Your effort can make it a success.”  That is the truth actually.  In spirituality there is no such thing called future.  Spirituality teaches you to see the moment, face the moment.  The mind is always on the Self.  It is just quiet.  Even if I am talking like this “blah, blah…”, in my consciousness, it is quiet at peace.

Ma Ambaji:   So, Baba, is there any thought process in Your mind or it’s always silent?

Babaji Maharaj:   A thought process can come, but it doesn’t trouble, it doesn’t go further into elaborating and getting dragged into the world.  If a thought arises, instantly it disappears; just like you write on a white paper and it gets erased instantly.  So, that doesn’t stay in my mind.  If somebody reminds, so then the mind can get applied to the brain and that remembrance can come.  Like my childhood, I can recall anything, but many things I cannot keep in the mind, I forget.  I don’t show it to people, but people can take me for granted or misunderstand.  That also, I have to be careful.  I don’t want people to take me for granted, they need to be scared of me [Babaji laughs],  you see? If you have to be a master, you have to be skillful.  So many administrative things are there. 

Ma Ambaji:   So, Baba, there is one more question.  You often say in Your talk that you can be your best friend and you can be your worst enemy.  What do You mean by that?  Means me as a being can be a best friend and can enlighten myself or I can be my worst enemy.  With this, there is an extension of the question.  Does emotion play the biggest role in destroying my decisions, my personality and can become my enemy?

Babaji Maharaj:   You say here, I will take up, you need Self-realization. 

Ma Ambaji:   Yes, definitely Baba. 

Babaji Maharaj:   To achieve that, you need to do sadhana.  Anything that is a stumbling block for you to do that sadhana, anything that delays is your own weakness.  Like you postpone, or you have a bit of a casual approach, you are a bit lazy, you tell “I can do some other time”, and you say, “O, I feel sleepy all the time, I cannot sit for meditation.  I don’t find time at all for meditation.  I have to do this, I have to do that, I have this.”  Like that, so many things, you are postponing and you become emotional for so many things and you don’t feel drawn to spirituality and knowing yourself.  All these are your enemies.  Means you are your enemy by these habits.  If you are lazy, that laziness is your habit, and that habit is your enemy.  Isn’t it? That’s what Sri Krishna talks in Bhagavad Gita.  “Atma is atma’s best friend and atma is atma’s enemy.”  That’s what I tell “You can be your best friend and you can be your worst enemy.” 

So, if you do sadhana and if you achieve, you are your best friend.  You know that you want Self-realization, that is beneficial, that will give you liberation from being born and dying again and again, and again undergoing all miserable conditions of happiness, unhappiness, good, bad, positive, negative, everything.  Even after knowing that, you are unable to do that one.  So that’s your enmity.   Within you, it is there, and you don’t want to learn lessons, you don’t want to overcome that.  That is how we tell that you can be your worst enemy.  But if you understand that, if you think that “I have time, Babaji, I can meditate”, you meditate.  One hour is all I am asking.  Every day I tell, after this Zoom class finishes, also I tell, “Tomorrow also at the same time you meditate.  Don’t give up.”  “Until next week or next session when Babaji comes, I don’t have to bother.”  So, then you don’t learn anything.  Then when you come in front of Babaji, you wouldn’t have done any homework at all and then you will be wondering.  So instead of that, if you do that, you can be your best friend, otherwise you are your worst enemy.  It is you.  So that’s what Bhagavad Gita tells and our Guru told.  You have to take out time.  Swamiji said “Time is not available in any shopping complex.  It is yours.  You take out the time you have got, otherwise you don’t have time.” 

Ma Ambaji:   Yes, Baba, and sometimes our emotions affect our decisions.  So how to be alert at that time that we do not let our emotions override our decisions?

Babaji Maharaj:   Wisdom application, thinking and reasoning is necessary.  Don’t become a victim of your own emotions.  That means you must always think you cannot afford to feel sorry for yourself, you don’t have time.  If you need to cry, you must think that you don’t have time.  You have to be so busy.  Life is short.  When death will come to the physical body, nobody knows.  Before that, that’s what Krishna told Arjuna, “Before death shall claim thee, go to the knowers of truth…”  He also recommended a Guru, “…go to the knowers of this truth.  Sitting at their lotus feet, seeking their permission, asking intelligent questions, and adopt such methods advised by them, and achieve the truth to yourself.”  Krishna did not tell “Arjuna, you don’t worry, you can keep sleeping.  I will give you Self-realization.”  He never told.  Death will claim you one day, you will be no more, but before that there is an opportunity.  That’s why every time I come on Zoom, the first sentence I try to use there is, “It’s so wonderful to be with you all.  One more opportunity for you all to practice silencing your mind.” 

So, that’s what one has to notice, understand and take out time and don’t become a victim of your own emotions.  Think that you don’t have time for such things, don’t have time to keep crying; you have to do the examination, a paper is given, question paper is given to you, you are sitting and you have to write, and getting through that examination is very crucial.  If you don’t pass, you cannot get even a glass of water in your life, that is the condition God has given you.  If you don’t pass in this examination, you will not be provided a glass of water, no food, nothing for you, the rest of life; it will be miserable.  Then what will you do?  You cannot afford to keep crying, “O, what to do” –  No time! The examiner will take away the paper if you don’t write it in that time.  You will see, “My God, this is all the time.  Let me write first, we can cry afterwards, we can feel sorry for ourselves afterwards.”  Like that, you must think and apply wisdom, and not waste your time.  

We used to keep working twenty years with Swamiji, we kept working.  We felt like crying; voice used to be choked many times.  It used to be hurt; not easy to overcome humiliations like that.  It was a struggle, it was a fight, a dual battle. I have to work, I cannot afford to keep crying, sitting there.  Swamiji taught that also.  He never gave any sympathy at all.  He was very tough because He was so graceful to me by teaching that thing; He never gave such time.  We had to be working.  Next thing, next thing has to go.  Now also, get up, I have to do things, I have to do things, I have to do next, next, next, next.  If I give up one thing, the whole day’s things get postponed.  No time for me to cry even if you keep scolding me, if you criticize me. 

Ma Ambaji:   Yes, Baba, it’s the very final last question because I can see some hands and thank You for being so gracious and giving me this opportunity.  Baba, I have been with You past 32 years. From 1992 I’ve been very closely watching You, living with You.  It’s such a blessing.  I’ll say that I am the most blessed person.  It’s just amazing.  Every day is an amazing experience; it’s an amazing experience living with You, and I don’t know what was my past karma which has brought You in my life.  I can say that it’s living with God.  Thank You for being in my life, Baba, and thank you everyone.  It’s a great, great opportunity, great pleasure to ask questions, and I hand it over to Zen to take the admin. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Wonderful, Ambaji.  Thank you for asking all these questions which gave an opportunity to me to express my opinion, my experiences.  These are all very beautiful teachings, important points that we have discussed.  It is a part of everybody’s life, they need to learn and overcome and see the Guru within them, see the Guru always, listen, take out time and do sadhana. 

   Wonderful, Zen, we can take up questions from others, the hands are there. 

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.  You have often said Swamiji used to be very angry at times, He was very tough and strict.  So, isn’t it like doing meditation, one gets mild and soft? How come He used to be angry?

Babaji Maharaj:   It is stupidness.  You see, He was not angry by His nature.  He was affectionate to me.  He was training me.  When He was training, He was a Master, He could not compromise that thing.  He was gracious that He was angry, means.  That anger was only acting to train me.  Today, because of that grace of His, I am sitting in front of you as a yogi.  You all honor us.  Honor means, this is due to His grace.  Without His grace of that, I would not have become like this. 

Today, you see, ask Ambaji, she just now told you, she is sitting in front of you.  Many people have so honored her also, have reverence to her also, she could ask these beautiful questions.  Everybody recognized, many people have written in emails, “Ambaji is so knowledgeable, and she can ask such beautiful questions.  We always look forward.”  She has taken my scoldings and she knows me very well.  I have been very tough with her also.  This is a Guru’s acting to train the disciple.  The disciple cannot understand this.  Such a person is unfit to be a disciple. 

Same Questioner:   Yes, Babaji.  My next question Babaji.  One of my lady acquaintances says she is a descendant of Lord Shiva.  Is this possible?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, I will not talk about particular people, but generally one thing:  There are many people who claim to have seen God or have God coming into their families or anything.  If a transformation has occurred that they all have gone to Self-realization or gone on to the devotional path, but not egoistic, just want others to come and worship them, then it is beneficial such a vision has happened.  If such a transformation is not there, so they are useless claims; that is all.  Such a thing is not possible. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You, Babaji. 

Question:   Babaji,I am very much aware of trying so hard to stay in that pinpoint moment of the present; past is past future is future, but I realize for me, deep physical pain and suffering keeps me in the moment.  So, what is that all about?

Babaji Maharaj:   It’s not that that keeps in the moment because your attention goes to the bodily pain.  So that’s what it is.  So, attention is on the bodily pain, but if it can remain single pointedly, then it comes to the present moment.  But if there is spinning and oscillation in the mind, becoming chatterbox and painful and cursing, all these things happening, then that is not.  Only meditation can be helpful to bring it and try to concentrate in between eyebrows with all your efforts.  Slowly, it will overcome the pain also, right?  That will be more helpful. 

Same Questioner:   Okay.  Thank You.

Question:   Yes, thank You.  It’s always a privilege to be sitting before You even on Zoom once again. One of the things that Ambaji mentioned, which I’ve heard of course a thousand times, is that there’s a possibility of losing all of one’s results of meditation, all of one’s punya, all of one’s benefit from sadhana.  And sometimes I regard these statements as being threats.  If you don’t do it, then you’ll lose it.  But isn’t a samskaara of sadhana of the consciousness of existence always there, so you can get back to it?  Or is it really possible to lose one’s benefit?

Babaji Maharaj:   You are right.  Even if that sadhana’s essence is there, if an illusion happens – temporarily, say – in this life, they lose it.  To come back to that and regain consciousness of that sadhana, it may take a long time, many times.  Like Swamiji used to talk about, which I may not have understood exactly, but He used to talk, “One time, if you lose this with an ego, you may lose it for 55,000 life cycles.  Beware of the ego.”  Ego can play such havoc.  The sadhana will be there, but it will delay the process.  It will go back.  It will take you back again when the ego dominates.  That’s what happens.  But if the sadhana has been done sincerely, it will bring you back very quickly also.  If it is not happening, that means the actual sadhana had not happened at all. 

Same Questioner:    But is it lost because of a breach in maybe one’s vrathas or vows of some sort, or is it lost because your mind simply is so separated that it has difficulty coming back together again?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, means even during that sadhana, say twenty or thirty years of meditation, you had not meditated properly, you were entertaining your own ego and many other things – that is the thing. Because law is the same; what you are talking about is the same, definitely.  If the sadhana is thoroughly done, that will not go to waste.  It will bring you back to the Guru very quickly.  For a long time, you cannot be away.  If you are away for long time, means there was no proper sadhana.  So, this is what one has to be careful of.  But if you are doing sadhana, that will never go waste, it will take care of you. 

Same Questioner:   Is it really the job of the Guru to bring the sadhaka, the disciple, the shishya back to the path, or is that something that only the shishya can do for him or herself?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, the Guru is there.  His waves are always there.  The shishya also has to raise the sail to catch the vibrations.  Both broadcaster and receiver are equally important.  Broadcasting is being done.  So, that is important.  If the student is not ready to learn…  Hundred people come every day to sit in front of me, do meditation.  If all of them are not ready to learn… I keep teaching, I am ready to teach.  So, they should be ready to learn, then only we can impart.  So that is important.

Same Questioner:   One of my teachers who has lived in Simhachalam, in Andhra, once said, “Everybody who comes to me, I have to take care of.  And if I can’t take care of them, then it’s a real problem.”  Something like that. 

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, a Guru will definitely take care of.  Different students are at different levels – their capabilities, their egos, all these things.  So according to that only he has to take care.  He cannot simply give enlightenment to all hundred students in one go, taking care of means.  One might get it.  Today another might, another year, another life, another time.  A Guru will definitely take care – for a positive thinking is different thing.  So, I was trying to have a little positive approach so that anybody, beware, don’t try to become egoistic, that can delay the process – a fact-checking, factual approach.  But the Guru will definitely take care.  If not in this life, after 55,000 life cycles we will come back and we will take care of you.  But if you are happy with that it’s up to you, or you want to get rid of this birth and death in this life itself, also it can happen.  So that is the practical approach. 

Same Questioner:   Okay.  Thank You.

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.  Is it possible to do meditation with open eyes?  I mean to say open eye meditation because sometimes we are traveling, or at times we are not in a position to close our eyes.  Is it possible?  Is there any way?

Babaji Maharaj:   One is, when you sit for actual meditation like at home or any such place, it is recommended that you keep your eyes closed because eyes also absorb visions from outside.  Already there is a world inside your mind you need to get rid of, and this will be additional.  However, like you are talking of traveling, at that time if you are able to pay attention to the consciousness of existence, you can keep trying that one.  So that even if your eyes are open, your vision unnecessarily doesn’t travel here and there.  Instead, your mind’s attention goes to that one.  Means, amongst the millions of thoughts that you have in your mind, which are all imaginations of the mind, one thing is consciousness of your own existence, ‘I am there.’  That feeling is always there.  That is in the mind.  So, you can try to pay attention when you are traveling, even if the eyes are open, like something is better than nothing; that will be helpful. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You very much. 

Question:   If one is closely aligned with more than one Guru, both Gurus prescribing very similar methods of sadhana but there are slight dissimilarities in technique, how does one handle this?  Can Babaji speak on this?

Babaji Maharaj:   So you can do sadhana of both the techniques, as long as you have that inclination, because finally you have to narrow down as you progress slowly, whichever one appeals to you, whichever one you fall in love. Because both are equally good.  Simply because you do one technique, that doesn’t mean the other technique is not good or any such thing.  What matters is, which appeals to you, one of the techniques might easily appeal to you, you might simply keep going.  So, like that in the beginning, you try to do both techniques, having reverence to both Gurus equally, and keep trying, keep trying.  As you progress and more and more you are able to sit down, whichever technique is more helpful to you, your mind picks up, then slowly narrow down on that and keep going with that one, then finally keep going.  Even if you do one of the techniques, know that your reverence to both Gurus is the same, because all Gurus are same.  There is no conflict.  Nobody will feel annoyed or mind it.  So, you can deal like that; finally, you can achieve the truth. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You, Babaji.   

Question:   Babaji has told the story that while He was in tapas, He would see visions that were very real.  For instance, a tiger in front of Him; He would stay still, continue to watch, and the tiger would disappear.  If we see something in our personal life or in the world that is frightening, is it true that as a householder not in tapas, can we also watch frightening things in meditation, and it may disappear?  In other words, can we change our reality by watching it?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, you need to understand two different things.  One is this universe, this world outside your physical body, and one is the world that is inside your mind.  To attend to this world, to make it disappear, you need to reach your higher consciousness.  This mind itself may not have the ability of that concentrated effect to deal with this matter.  If you gain that quality, that higher potency concentration, then if you watch, the matter it may disappear.  But within your mind, if a certain matter is troubling you, if you just watch in meditation, that will definitely disappear, and your mind will become clear of that one.  You can overcome such negativity or trouble or any such thing.  If you progress when you do tapas, then when your mind reaches a higher consciousness, that will take care of this universe also one day.  It is possible.  Even scientists are accepting sometimes, if the matter is quietly watched, it can get dissolved.  But that watching needs tremendous power of potency, not simply a mind to watch something and it disappears; it doesn’t happen like that.  So, you have to understand this potency that is required. 

Question:   Hi Babaji, I have noticed, and I might not have noticed it before, but recently You’ve used the word “conscience” as well as “consciousness”.  When you use the word “conscience”, what do You mean by it?

Babaji Maharaj:   ‘Antakarana’ is the word used.  Trying to make it simpler, like you cannot tell a lie to yourself.  You might be able to tell a lie to another person.  Means, you know what is in your mind.  That is what perhaps the conscience, what I am trying to mention sometimes in my talks.  Consciousness is the consciousness of your existence, ‘you are conscious of this world’, like that; that is the consciousness.  That’s what is the difference sometimes I would have mentioned.  Conscience means, your own conscience. Further English, I don’t know much to elaborate; this is what the simple things means – you know your mind, you know yourself better, whether you are right or wrong, whether you are truthful or not truthful, something like that what makes the conscience.  That’s what I mentioned. 

Same Questioner:   Is conscience part of our higher mind?

Babaji Maharaj:   You can tell that also.  It knows that you are right or wrong, but the other person may not know.  It is your own inner conscience, inner things. 

Same Questioner:   So, just in normal everyday life, we talk about conscience being a sense of right and wrong but can that be fake, or ego? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Something like that, that it is probably; what you are talking. 

Same Questioner:   Okay, thank You.

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.  Babaji, one question that I had was, while in meditation, we are interacting with Guru, or we are trying to practice what Guru has taught us.  And once we are outside that, when we are interacting in the world, the ego plays such a havoc.  I can say that by the time the evening and the night, I can think of four or five incidents every day where my ego has broken many hearts, or has been horrible, and I do not know how to control that.  And many times, without me knowing also the ego would be doing a lot of damage.  So, how does one interact or how does one try to play one’s own role while the meditation and the sadhana and the tapas continue?

Babaji Maharaj:   Ah, exactly only the long-time meditation only can take out such ego.  However, you can try to apply some reasoning, some wisdom.  Means, like when you live in this world, a little bit of ego may be necessary, otherwise everybody will take you granted and sit on your head.  So, you just keep your ego for defending yourself, defense purposes only.  And another point you can think of is, so that you need to keep your ego, you don’t have to be very rude to somebody, you don’t have to be hurting somebody.  Often you try to be… if necessary you have to be firm, but you can be polite.  This type of reasoning and thinking might be helpful.  Even, say you are an officer, you may have to say ‘no’ to someone; that ‘no’ can be said a little politely or smilingly, but you can remain firm.  “This is my duty.  I am sorry, I cannot do it.”  Like that, if you adopt, you will feel better satisfied that your intention is not to hurt the other, but you are just doing your job. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You so much. 

Question:   Pranaam Babaji, thank You for the session time with Ambaji.  My question is, what’s the difference between yoga and Hinduism?

Babaji Maharaj:   Hinduism teaches yoga.  Yoga is an exercise through which you achieve the yoga.  So. that which teaches the yoga, today we call it Hinduism. 

Same Questioner:   Thank You.    

End of Session