0:00 Introduction
0:13 Who or what is Shiva?
5:55 In the state of Shiva is there a desire or longing and because of that there is the creation?
8:29 Is there something we need to see when we ‘just watch’ in meditation?
11:58 How does the mind succeed in purifying itself, despite all the acquired habits?
15:28 Is it normal for people to have thoughts in meditation for some time?
17:40 What is the difference between the brain and the mind?

Q&A at Stevenson Retreat, USA – Part 1
Recorded on 5th May 2023


Question:

Thank you Babaji, can you say something that would make a clearer understanding of who or what is Shiva? And then what the relationship of that concept or Shiva is to Shivabalayogi and Shiva Rudra Balayogi?

Shri Babaji:

One is, Shiva means your existence in total thoughtlessness state. That is the basic meaning. Like even in Hindu philosophy when the body dies it is known as shava. Shava is a matter which has become inert now. It’s not going to function in any way. No movement, it’s over. But Shiva appears to be inert because of total stillness, which is known as Maha Samadhi. But it is supremely consciousness of existence. That is Shiva. Lord Shiva came as a Jangama sage to initiate my guru into twelve years tapas. When he was trying to squeeze out the juice from a fruit in 1949, on the seventh day of August, he was just 14 year old trying to overcome poverty by trying to do some small business and weaving saris and dhotis and other cloths. He was playing on the outskirts of the village with his friends. Then some palmeyra fruits fell from a tree. He brought them and cutting into twelve pieces. Including himself there were twelve boys who were playing there at the canal bund having a shower, bath and all. So he kept one piece for himself, whereas others simply ate the fruit and were playing in the canal bund. When he tried to squeeze out, he heard an Om sound coming out of the fruit and he felt trembling all over the body. He saw a dazzling light. As he was watching, the fruit took shape of a Shivalingam which broke into two pieces. Shivalingam is the symbolic embodiment of the divinities, both form and formlessness. It has no face, no eyes, no ears, nothing. Thus it denotes the formlessness of the divinity. Yet the same divinity can take a form, any form from that. So that is the concept of Shivalingam. So that came into Swamiji’s hands and it broke into two pieces, fell on the ground. From there a Jangama sage with matted hair appeared before him and made him to sit for tapas. Thus Swamiji always considered Shiva as his guru.

So we can say our guru parampara, the lineage of our guru started from there only. There was no other thing. So he named me Shiva Rudra Balayogi. Rudra means a ferocious of rising is what happens. The other day also we were talking, many people have asked me this question in India also, whereas you never yell or you never show any such anger, why have you been named as Shiva Rudra by your guru? He used to be very short temper and used to keep shouting all the time. Finally, by his grace, he made me to remain cool and I, after watching, because the present day generations cannot take. That was a very great method of surgery by a surgeon to perform to give you a self-realization in that moment. Means he used to remove the ego. He always said ego as the biggest hurdle for any progress. It must not be there in any situation, under any circumstances. Anything the master does, ego must not crop up. Then you win. That’s how he used to say.

So he taught like that one. But the generations gap is there. Culturally and the ability to withstand such toughness of a master. It has changed, present day generations have changed. That’s why I have made myself more accessible and try to answer a question affectionately. Allow people to ask any question, encourage them and don’t show any such anger. It was very meaningful why he showed such anger. That means he had.. you asked a question means, you can think that he had already taken a knife in his hand to perform the surgery. That was it. If you loved him simply you win. So that was the difference. We always invoke for His blessings and we try to explain elaborately so that the generations can understand, and get inspired to sit into meditation. Some of the points about Shiva and our connection of lineage. In that state of Shiva was there something that we could call feeling, like a longing, not desire, but longing. Something that comes and because of that, there’s the creation.

As I heard from Swamiji, Rudra was created by para brahman, and when Rudra appeared in the space, he was in a ferocious mood. He simply shouted, “Who am I? How did I come into existence in this form like this?” Then the voice from that deep space, from the same divine para brahman said, “You sit and concentrate in between eyebrows and just keep watching there.” He was such a ripe, just then appeared, it just went into deep samadhi, no creation could happen. So all illusion got collapsed. That was when enormous fire also came up with that one. That was engulfing all the things that were created. Then by the grace of the para brahman, Sanaka, Sanandana, they are the four yogis, first yogis born out of the consciousness of Brahma. They all along with Vishnu, prayed to that fire, to assume the form of mother’s concept. Mother as the kindest in the creation who would forgive unconditionally and give away the creation. So thus mother was called as Bhuvaneshwari, Adi Parashakti. The first invincible, energetic force of the divinity, and gave away the creation from her womb. So she gave birth to the creation and she was very kind. That’s how a mother concept also was born. So this is what Swamiji used to tell me.

 Question:

Babaji, in your meditation instructions, you instruct us to concentrate the mind and sight in between the eyebrows and people mention to me sometimes when they’re sitting there with their eyes closed, concentrating the mind and sight, they’re wondering, is there something that I need to see there? Is there something that I need to feel there? Is there an object I need to find or a vision I need to have?

Shri Babaji:

 Good question. You all must notice when the instructions are given, concentrate your mind and sight in between eyebrows and just keep watching there. No object, no form, no name, nothing is given as to what you are supposed to watch. So you must understand it’s the mind which is trying to watch itself. The mind is infinite. So in the beginning you take the help of eyeballs, which are one of the strongest sensory organs. If the eyeballs can be fixed there, it can withdraw and hold the mind strongly. So thus it gets purified. If you are watching, you are not thinking. These two are the aspects of the mind. It can think and it can just watch. If you become successful in just watching, that means you are not trying to think about anything, no analyzation, no recognition. Thus your mind goes introvert to itself, its attention turns to itself in due course of time. So that is the idea of watching.

Question:

So the eyeballs are requested to be fixed there, but they’re not given any instruction to locate a spot or anything. There’s no eye that opens up on the third eye or nothing, it’s just the fixation of the eyes is what the goal is?

Shri Babaji:

I understand. It’s not easy to bring both eyeballs together. It moves parallelly. But if you steadily with all the patience, relax, gentle to yourself. Don’t be in a rush. Then the eyeballs get confused and the mind also gets into a jerk. Just steadily watch. Even if it is the front portion, you are unable to locate the center in between eyebrows, no problem. If you just watch, then the longer vision slowly comes closer as the eyeballs start moving towards one direction. But you need to have enormous patience. Just a slightest jerk, you want to analyze, you start thinking, why is this happening? You get irritated, anything, it’s gone. You bring again. So this is a duel battle that will go on for some time. That’s why dedication and discipline and after that, patience is the thing which pays rich dividend. No rush, mind has gone out of control since time immemorial. It will take some time, no problem. Like that, have the attitude so that patience and relaxation comes. Then you will be successful.

Question:

How does the mind actually succeed in purifying itself with all these thoughts that keep coming and coming? Does the mind have the capacity to purify itself of all these acquired habits?

Shri Babaji:

Every imagination of the mind is considered a corrupted item because that can keep you away from your real Self. By making you get preoccupied with that imagined thought, it can keep you away. Some people have mentioned it as a sin also, but sin means here, a grave mistake. You go out of your home and forget to come back to home. Thus, you are putting yourself into an ugly situation. You don’t know where to go. You keep wandering. Like Yoga Vasistha talks, your mind when it’s wandering, it’s wandering in an unknown forest, aranya, aimlessly and doesn’t know the path, where to go, what to do. So all that is necessary is just become quiet. Don’t recognize the forest, then the forest disappears. Vasistha tells in Yoga Vasistha, Ramayana also. So that is the importance. Then the mind gets cleansed.

As long as there are thoughts, it is corrupted. Once the thoughts all get cleared, it becomes quiet. Then it regains the form of pure consciousness. It is no more mind. So when there are thoughts and visions are there, it is considered mind. But when that is cleared, so that is cleansed, cleansing of the mind, that is how you have to get rid of all thoughts and visions that it becomes purified. Then its attention also goes to itself because mind is made up of consciousness and energy, I always keep telling. Consciousness means wherever you apply your consciousness, you become aware of that. Now you apply your consciousness to me when I am talking, then you will become aware of what I’m trying to convey, the finest points of meditation. So that is what the attention, paying attention. So that is why from the beginning itself, fix your attention in between eyebrows using the mind and sight. Concentrate your mind and sight. So that’s what Swamiji did when the Jangama sage appeared and initiated him. He just went on watching. He didn’t bother for anything. All I have to do is watching. Something might happen. But he didn’t try to think what will happen.

Something it must be meaningful why the sage has told me to just watch. So like that Swamiji used to say, ‘Every day I initiate people, if only they can consider this is a command.’ When the commander issues orders, the soldier doesn’t think twice. Shoot means he shoots. You won’t think, ‘Why should I be shooting? Where should I be shooting?’ Like that, you just watch means if you don’t bother anything. If so many doctrines doesn’t bother you, you just watch, then the mind becomes purified.

Question:

So Babaji, could we say that thoughts are not a sign of a bad or a wrong or an incorrect meditation, it’s just that the clue is that how you deal with the thoughts, whether you watch them or whether you engage them, making judgments and things like that? So it’s normal for people to have thoughts in meditation for some time?

Shri Babaji:

Yeah. So, as long as you are unable to get rid totally in one go, if you want, try to get involved with only the good thoughts, the right thought, so that eventually one thought might remain, then you might be able to abandon that by the grace of the guru. Then the total silence is achieved. So that is how it can happen if you want to adopt such methods also. But try not to bother about. We try to teach, don’t bother about dualities, either good or bad. Like in Ashtavakra Samhita he says, the atma gnani, the one who is Self-realized, Atma Sakshatkar, he has neither compassion, nor any hatred, dislike and he has neither this nor that. He doesn’t feel any sorry for the world. He doesn’t get attracted in any way to the world. He just gets to see the world. But he doesn’t analyze what the world is. Simply an appearance is there. That is what is known as a witness. The atma gnani lives as long as the body is there. Lives as a jeevanmukta, the one who has liberated himself while alive in the body so thus he will live happily at peace all the time. So it is neither enjoyment, nor dis-enjoyment for him. So he’s simply there, he is at peace all the time.

Question:

Hi Baba, this may be semantics, but can you distinguish between the brain and the mind? Because just for purpose of explaining it, you know, to other people in my family, I always think of the brain as creating the thoughts and the imagination and the mind is separate. But when it attaches to the thoughts of the brain, that draws itself way from its true Self. But I don’t hear you using the word ‘brain’.

Shri Babaji:

In my observation during tapas, as taught by the master also, brain is like a tape recorder. Mind is the tape. So when this tape gets applied to the brain, it decodifies everything and shows as a thought process or a vision, a visual effect, that is how the things happen. It is the mind that is the consciousness, which is the soul also. That is what is you. You are carrying this as symptoms, life after life, when you are born. And that is the reason for you to be reborn again also. Like when death happens, actually it is the brain which stops functioning. That’s when clinically you’ll be declared it’s dead. But the mind was holding all the thoughts and visions in the form of desires and craving. Then in the final moments, the mind spins terribly and the intensity of thoughts forms. Based on that, when the brain dies, the mind, the soul assumes the next incarnation.

See, imagine to be born to your parents. Swamiji like used to tell, you can choose your husband or wife or partner, whatever it is, but for parents you are already born. There’s no question of to choose them. So that is the previous life’s symptoms. Whatever is there. Based on that, you are getting an elevated birth, if your mind was more nonviolent, more spiritual, you are practicing sadhanas like meditation, etc. so that would give you such circumstances and your own tendencies of observation capacity and understanding capacities will all differ from person to person. If parents have two or four children, they will try to look after all children equally. But every soul is bringing its basic nature from previous lives. Based on that, its temperament, attitude builds up. That is what we call it as basic nature in a person.

So this is the difference between brain and mind. Mind is an independent soul existence. It is not a byproduct of the brain’s reflection. The brain is there. When the mind gets applied, then it reflects everything. It is in touch with this universe. One thing is sure, due to this brain, we have obtained as the soul, the consciousness of this world. So brain is through the nervous system, in touch with the world. It receives messages and it passes on the messages. At all times the mind is also getting applied unknown to you. You are getting applied as the mind. So that is when it is able to reflect thoughts and visions. Watching that thought, mind forgets it is because of me this is happening. It registers in itself as if that is a fundamental reality. Thus a friend might appear as a foe. A foe might appear as a friend. This what Yoga Vasistha also talks, for a person. So mind fools itself and brain slowly gains and tries to become the master, and fools the mind. That’s why we always tell, a brain can be a very good servant, but a bad master. Other day also I told the example, the brain goes out and tries to find who has come to my residence. Comes back and tells, ‘Some of your friend wanted to meet you, I just sent him out. I shouted at him. I thought, he need not meet you.’ That is not the job of the servant. It is you who will decide whether you want to meet or not. The servant’s job is just tell. So the brain has to just tell what it is.

Then when you apply concentrated, more purified mind, then your intelligence really works best. That’s how we tell youngsters, If you practice meditation, you can live like a genius. So these are some of the connections between mind and brain. Mind is you yourself. So the spirituality, sadhanas are all taught. Other sadhanas like mantra repetition, bhakti margas, music can be a good therapy to reduce the load on the brain and mind are also getting purified. But meditation is the final remedy to cleanse the mind once for all. When it is cleansed, you wait as a jeevanmukta, as a liberated soul. One day this body will die and that soul gets liberated. Becomes one with the ultimate truth, divinity. It won’t have a rebirth if there is no imagination. No more cravings or desires are there. It’s all over, contented.